Post by: Pete on January 25, 2025, 12:06:58 PM
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFLgagXSAPw/?igsh=MWQ2N3ZrOHZhem9uNw==
Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2025, 12:26:31 PM
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Post by: Pete on January 25, 2025, 12:49:27 PM
https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46Well, I’d say that I do not feel “guilt” for my ancestors and I encourage my kids not to feel “guilt” for their ancestors. So, I suppose I agree with him.
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Post by: Pete on January 25, 2025, 12:54:31 PM
Post by: Pete on January 25, 2025, 01:06:42 PM
I think I have about a bagillion bigger concerns about MAGA than Elon’s science experiments (most of which are indeed badass and highly probable to materially benefit humanity. Have some concerns about the “not a flame thrower” tho).
Post by: CNS on January 25, 2025, 03:10:12 PM
I am 100% an Elon apologist. He’s definitely my Ben Sasse, if you will.
I think I have about a bagillion bigger concerns about MAGA than Elon’s science experiments (most of which are indeed badass and highly probable to materially benefit humanity. Have some concerns about the “not a flame thrower” tho).
I think he posses a bigger risk to individual nations than any other non-president level human, and will be come more so over time, all because of SpaceX and Starlink. We trust him with a lot of high security stuff and he has huge interest in China, who happens to be the main nation state competitor on space stuff right now. If you tell me that Elon wouldn't let extreme pressure from China on Tesla related business effect what he does or doesn't do in the gray area of SpaceX, I would suggest you haven't thought it all the way through.
Starlink is growing and will eventually connect a crap ton of people, governments, and militaries to themselves and others. One guy should not have the ability to so sharply effect communications. I think this alone is a national security threat and will only become more of one. Same with SpaceX. I think it is the pinnacle of short sighted to have SpaceX doing anything in NASA's place. We should be better funding NASA instead.
I understand the advancement SpaceX is providing. It think it's rough ridin' stupid we are allowing that outside of America's ultimate control.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 25, 2025, 04:20:16 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2025, 06:04:05 PM
https://x.com/econompic/status/1883303167389221355?s=46
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Post by: michigancat on January 26, 2025, 12:33:54 AM
https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46
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This was like worse than the Nazi salute.
Think about that sentence!
Post by: 114Hickory on January 26, 2025, 06:34:46 AM
https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This was like worse than the Nazi salute.
Think about that sentence!
In "The Question of German Guilt," Karl Jaspers noted four types of guilt (criminal, political, moral, metaphysical) providing at least some nuance to the often generalized meaning of the word.
In a recent interview, Enzo Traverso - a historian teaching at Cornell, said this: "Rather than speaking of historical guilt, I would speak of historical responsibility. I was born more than twenty years after the Ethiopian genocide perpetrated by Italian Fascism in 1935–36. I am not guilty of that Fascist genocide, but I think I would be guilty if, as an Italian citizen, I ignored my country’s past and refused to assume the historical responsibilities tied to it. As a responsible Italian citizen, I cannot ignore the crimes that belong to my country’s history."
I mean, I know we're talking about Elon's speech to the AfD here but the larger point remains. In our rush to assuage guilt (whether in Germany, the U.S., or anywhere else), we have at best mitigated historical responsibility, if not outright denied it has any value or even exists.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 26, 2025, 06:46:50 AM
My family members were Scottish immigrants prior to the Revolutionary War. There's no doubt that there were slave owners somewhere along the way. Should I feel guilty for that? Absolutely not. The three generations that I've known had nothing to do with slavery.
In the German setting with regards to Nazis, we're in the first to fourth generation of the population since then. I'm sure there's quite a bit of remorse in the boomer age as they were born directly after WW2.
To Elon's point, those under 40 (even 60) should not be carrying that guilt. They had absolutely nothing to do with that crap show. Great grandparents alive today would be the first generation born to those that were alive during WW2.
Post by: LickNeckey on January 26, 2025, 08:12:15 AM
Post by: CNS on January 26, 2025, 08:36:29 AM
For context he is speaking to a group that some European intelligence organizations have classified as a "suspected extremist organization" and has lost a co founder and multiple party chairmen because of the organizations drift to far right totalitarianism
Yep. He is specifically saying this to the political party most likely to want to emulate it in policies.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 08:55:49 AM
Regarding the Nazi salute stuff, tell me how it was materially different than this:https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This was like worse than the Nazi salute.
Think about that sentence!
Is this legitimate and a not AI?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFLgagXSAPw/?igsh=MWQ2N3ZrOHZhem9uNw==
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 08:56:39 AM
Don't ignore the past and allow it to be repeated. It's absolute crap to live with the guilt of past generations.Agreed
My family members were Scottish immigrants prior to the Revolutionary War. There's no doubt that there were slave owners somewhere along the way. Should I feel guilty for that? Absolutely not. The three generations that I've known had nothing to do with slavery.
In the German setting with regards to Nazis, we're in the first to fourth generation of the population since then. I'm sure there's quite a bit of remorse in the boomer age as they were born directly after WW2.
To Elon's point, those under 40 (even 60) should not be carrying that guilt. They had absolutely nothing to do with that crap show. Great grandparents alive today would be the first generation born to those that were alive during WW2.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 26, 2025, 08:59:08 AM
Post by: michigancat on January 26, 2025, 08:59:16 AM
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 08:59:17 AM
Elon will ride the tide over time. If it looks like Vance can’t win next cycle he will dump maga as fast as he joined and pick the winning team.Absolutely. I don’t share Elon’s value system, which is “ensure long term survival of the species at all costs,” but it’s very clearly understandable and predictable.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 09:14:25 AM
I am 100% an Elon apologist. He’s definitely my Ben Sasse, if you will.
I think I have about a bagillion bigger concerns about MAGA than Elon’s science experiments (most of which are indeed badass and highly probable to materially benefit humanity. Have some concerns about the “not a flame thrower” tho).
I think he posses a bigger risk to individual nations than any other non-president level human, and will be come more so over time, all because of SpaceX and Starlink. We trust him with a lot of high security stuff and he has huge interest in China, who happens to be the main nation state competitor on space stuff right now. If you tell me that Elon wouldn't let extreme pressure from China on Tesla related business effect what he does or doesn't do in the gray area of SpaceX, I would suggest you haven't thought it all the way through.
Starlink is growing and will eventually connect a crap ton of people, governments, and militaries to themselves and others. One guy should not have the ability to so sharply effect communications. I think this alone is a national security threat and will only become more of one. Same with SpaceX. I think it is the pinnacle of short sighted to have SpaceX doing anything in NASA's place. We should be better funding NASA instead.
I understand the advancement SpaceX is providing. It think it's rough ridin' stupid we are allowing that outside of America's ultimate control.
We frequently are of the same mind on things, but not on this. I have serval points…
First, while I understand the concern with a single person or non-governmental organization having control over Starlink I think we need to also remember and respect that rough ridin' Starlink wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for that single man in the organizations he’s associated with. It’s rough ridin' miraculous relative to where we were before. There is no risk that his rough ridin' crap gets turned over to China or anything like that. It’s all run out of the United States and with the stroke of a pen, a US president can declare a national security emergency and nationalize the entire rough ridin' thing.
Second, the thing that is truly ridiculous about space development up to this point is that a random dude with a completely unrelated high market cap company can take those funds and other private funds and essentially produce 10 times better space outcomes at 1/1000th of the cost as the United States government and the United States government’s relationships with legacy defense contractors. The opportunity was just rough ridin' sitting there and he went and did it. He doesn’t invent the rocket engines himself, He doesn’t make the flight software himself, he doesn’t do anything except say “ hey, let’s go do this cool thing at a fraction of the cost at which it has been done in the past and with 100 times more capabilities than what has been done in the past.”
Quote
1. Launch Costs: SpaceX’s Falcon 9 costs ~$67 million per launch, compared to ULA’s historical $400 million per launch before Vulcan Centaur. This represents a cost reduction of up to 83% PER LAUNCH.
2. Crew Transport: SpaceX’s Crew Dragon costs NASA ~$55–72 million per seat, while Boeing’s Starliner costs ~$90 million per seat. This is a 20–39% lower cost.
3. Development Costs: Developing Falcon 9 cost ~$390 million under NASA’s COTS program, compared to traditional NASA estimates of $1.7–4 billion for similar projects, achieving savings of up to 90% as compared to EACH competing project with each competitor.
SpaceX is probably the most American rough ridin' thing ever. This rough ridin' dude made this crap happen where entire rough ridin' nations all over this globe have tried and failed. His operation is arguably, more advanced than any nation on earth, including the United States and NASA.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 09:19:51 AM
https://lexfridman.com/elon-musk-and-neuralink-team
Only like an hour of this thing is Elon talking. The rest is in-depth interviews with the people who actually do this crap and the first patient and him talking about how his life is actually changed.
Post by: CNS on January 26, 2025, 09:49:08 AM
I respect what he’s done, but that doesn’t make his position less dangerous. You have to admit that he seems to be governed by his ego and whims lately, and that this portion of his personality has been there for a while. Remember his online beef during the kids stuck in the cave? Now he seems to live in the mode.
To be clear, I don’t think he would hand Starlink to China or anyone, but I am concerned he would lend use of it to some country’s military operations and selectively disrupt it to affect individual battle outcomes that might be highly critical at that time. The threat I am concerned about is a one or two time shot if he found a way to benefit his positions. I think Elon is loyal to Elon. I don’t necessarily think he would do this to us, but I definitely think he would to any other country. That may change in the future.
To top all that off, I don’t think our government is competent enough to keep a full evaluation of each changing moment with any of Elon’s pursuits. I mean, look at the SEC and how inept it is at managing financial institutions and how much of a rough ridin' joke repercussions are. Anyone who has the ability to understand and adequately monitor Elon’s stuff isn’t working for our government, they are in private companies.
I think trusting him to continue to play nice is like handling a snake or wrestling bears. Ppl do it, but I think it’s dumb and I see it as a near guarantee that the bear or snake make their handlers regret it.
What line would Starlink or SpaceX have to cross to make you think differently of your position? Do you think he isn’t courting an extremely hard right position? Do you think a guy who spent $250m to get Trump elected, during a cultural time where the term Nazi is being used all the time, and as the owner of the cultural online mainline, doesn’t understand what a nazi salute is and how it would be perceived? I haven’t listened to his Lex interview, but I have heard him on Rogan twice and one on Harris(iirc). I know this guy thinks. I know he is aware. This isn’t me trying to be a prick, and I hope it doesn’t come across like that, but I think Elons actions taken into full view show a view that presents major possible issues with a guy like that having casual access to extreme power. I also think it’s to think this while respecting the hell out of what he has done and agreeing that it was super human.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 09:53:37 AM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 26, 2025, 10:03:26 AM
I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 10:05:51 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 10:08:18 AM
Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 10:14:09 AM
I do not think that they were genetically predisposed that way. I think they came from a culture of that attitude and focus and shared values. I think that there are many other similarly effective cultures around the globe both today historically. Many have likely gone extinct over history.
For those that have gone extinct, I wonder why they are extinct? Did all of them go extinct as a result of being conquered outright and eliminated by a foe?
Post by: mocat on January 26, 2025, 10:15:20 AM
In each case. Everybody knows what they saw manRegarding the Nazi salute stuff, tell me how it was materially different than this:https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This was like worse than the Nazi salute.
Think about that sentence!Is this legitimate and a not AI?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFLgagXSAPw/?igsh=MWQ2N3ZrOHZhem9uNw==
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 10:16:43 AM
How would you rate the coordination and athletic ability of Elon Musk after having watched him jumping on stage at that Trump rally? Would you say that it is a person who is in command of exceptionally nuanced expressions?In each case. Everybody knows what they saw manRegarding the Nazi salute stuff, tell me how it was materially different than this:https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This was like worse than the Nazi salute.
Think about that sentence!Is this legitimate and a not AI?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFLgagXSAPw/?igsh=MWQ2N3ZrOHZhem9uNw==
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 10:25:39 AM
Post by: mocat on January 26, 2025, 10:42:52 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250126/01441ddbdce7f8073e2c424e03d9b6fb.jpg)
Post by: michigancat on January 26, 2025, 10:48:49 AM
Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
There have been plenty of great German contributions to global culture but it isn't so great that they like need to keep their bloodlines clean or pretend like the Holocaust wasn't also a major part of their cultural contributions.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 26, 2025, 10:58:16 AM
Pete
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250126/01441ddbdce7f8073e2c424e03d9b6fb.jpg)
:lol:
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:12:22 AM
Who is saying that stuff?Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
There have been plenty of great German contributions to global culture but it isn't so great that they like need to keep their bloodlines clean or pretend like the Holocaust wasn't also a major part of their cultural contributions.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:16:37 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:20:03 AM
Life is much, much easier when you try to accept what you can’t control and focus on the silver linings and ways to make the most of it.
Post by: mocat on January 26, 2025, 11:26:21 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:28:08 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:28:42 AM
You're trying to control what everyone saw plainly with their own eyeballs. I didn't need any of those clips filtered through any partisan media to tell me what I saw.Then you’re quite clearly telling me Walz is a Nazi or a super big fan of Nazi gestures.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:30:24 AM
And I thank baby rough ridin' Jesus that they are American pieces of crap and not Russian or Chinese pieces of crap .
Post by: mocat on January 26, 2025, 11:33:28 AM
You're trying to control what everyone saw plainly with their own eyeballs. I didn't need any of those clips filtered through any partisan media to tell me what I saw.Then you’re quite clearly telling me Walz is a Nazi or a super big fan of Nazi gestures.
I don't think a single person on earth thinks that, including both of us.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:37:47 AM
So it’s your opinion that Elon Musk was fully and intentionally trying to use a Nazi gesture? Given all of his stated goals you feel like this guy felt the right move was to purposefully forward Nazi propaganda?You're trying to control what everyone saw plainly with their own eyeballs. I didn't need any of those clips filtered through any partisan media to tell me what I saw.Then you’re quite clearly telling me Walz is a Nazi or a super big fan of Nazi gestures.
I don't think a single person on earth thinks that, including both of us.
If so, what is your opinion about how Elon thinks that that will help all of his goals be reached ?
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:38:58 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 11:41:21 AM
It's sad to see Pete cape up for this man just because he builds rockets.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:42:43 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:43:27 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 11:45:14 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:46:14 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:46:33 AM
How does Elon being a professional boomer troll help him accomplish his goal of saving the species? Maybe that isn't actually his goal?I suppose the only thing that we can all agree on is the lengthy list of accomplishments that he has
Post by: Trim on January 26, 2025, 11:46:56 AM
Post by: mocat on January 26, 2025, 11:47:23 AM
I mean, I guess we just have to take on faith that while Walz and Elon’s gestures were absolutely identical that they mean 100% different things?I think it's in bad faith to say the gestures are "absolutely identical". Like the walz and kamala videos both obscure their hands, for example. Kind of important if you're going to claim the two are identical to elon's stiff non hand waving salute. I've never seen a sig heil with a waving hand, have you?
I don't think we can go any farther if you actually believe what you're saying here and aren't just playing devil's advocate or doing a bit.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:47:44 AM
Fair chance he was trying to do something subtle that magas/nazis would catch as a shout to them but that regular people would be oblivious too, but he’s too physically incompetent to have pulled it off.wHe is 100% physically incompetent so that part of the puzzle is rough ridin' solved
Post by: michigancat on January 26, 2025, 11:48:19 AM
Who is saying that stuff?Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
There have been plenty of great German contributions to global culture but it isn't so great that they like need to keep their bloodlines clean or pretend like the Holocaust wasn't also a major part of their cultural contributions.
Elon Musk at the ADF convention
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:49:13 AM
So it’s your opinion that Elon Musk has a the requisite level of hand eye coordination to pull that off with hundreds of people staring at him after having just gave an impassioned thank you for assistance and helping him reach his life goal? I can barely find the rough ridin' fairway if three of my buddies from high school are watching me tee off.I mean, I guess we just have to take on faith that while Walz and Elon’s gestures were absolutely identical that they mean 100% different things?I think it's in bad faith to say the gestures are "absolutely identical". Like the walz and kamala videos both obscure their hands, for example. Kind of important if you're going to claim the two are identical to elon's stiff non hand waving salute. I've never seen a sig heil with a waving hand, have you?
I don't think we can go any farther if you actually believe what you're saying here and aren't just playing devil's advocate or doing a bit.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:49:51 AM
Go pull the quotes thenWho is saying that stuff?Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
There have been plenty of great German contributions to global culture but it isn't so great that they like need to keep their bloodlines clean or pretend like the Holocaust wasn't also a major part of their cultural contributions.
Elon Musk at the ADF convention
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 11:50:33 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:51:09 AM
I think any god tier gamer would have decent hand-eye coordinationI for one believe that he cheated his balls off at that and I believe that you believe that too
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 11:52:07 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:53:15 AM
Wait, Elon has misrepresented his accomplishments?!?I’d surely never say otherwise. There’s ample objective evidence of a very vast length of accomplishments as it is I don’t need to refer to Elon’s rough ridin' opinions about it.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:54:27 AM
Jesus Christ Rusty has said 1 million times that he thinks probably every football coach in America is a giant piece of crap. It’s the same goddamn phenomenon.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 11:54:55 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:55:43 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:56:48 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 11:57:59 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:58:26 AM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 11:59:11 AM
What are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.Everyone on this board will be watched, monitored and evaluated by an AI at one point in time in the future. The biggest danger to humanity lies in who gets to train and align that AI.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:00:55 PM
What are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.And kind of a dick move bringing up immigrants and trans people when you know goddamn well that my views align with yours on those issues. I just completely reject all of this partisan bullshit.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:02:24 PM
And I am pretty much rough ridin' done with the Democrats. I’m not joining the rough ridin' Republicans. I’m also not gonna join goddamn Rand Paul and his idiot kids.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 12:03:24 PM
What are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.And kind of a dick move bringing up immigrants and trans people when you know goddamn well that my views align with yours on those issues. I just completely reject all of this partisan bullshit.
I only bring it up because you said electing trump was elon's life goal or whatever.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:04:07 PM
Furthermore, I also don’t happen to believe that the extinction of the species is necessarily bad thing. I don’t really have too high an opinion of humans. We had a good run. I don’t really give a crap if humans go extinct someday.What are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.And kind of a dick move bringing up immigrants and trans people when you know goddamn well that my views align with yours on those issues. I just completely reject all of this partisan bullshit.
Post by: mocat on January 26, 2025, 12:04:11 PM
Ok so you agree they are different now?So it’s your opinion that Elon Musk has a the requisite level of hand eye coordination to pull that off with hundreds of people staring at him after having just gave an impassioned thank you for assistance and helping him reach his life goal? I can barely find the rough ridin' fairway if three of my buddies from high school are watching me tee off.I mean, I guess we just have to take on faith that while Walz and Elon’s gestures were absolutely identical that they mean 100% different things?I think it's in bad faith to say the gestures are "absolutely identical". Like the walz and kamala videos both obscure their hands, for example. Kind of important if you're going to claim the two are identical to elon's stiff non hand waving salute. I've never seen a sig heil with a waving hand, have you?
I don't think we can go any farther if you actually believe what you're saying here and aren't just playing devil's advocate or doing a bit.
Claiming he unintentionally did a sieg heil because he is uncoordinated is a lot different than saying it was "absolutely identical" to kamala and walz's arm waving.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:04:53 PM
No, the support of the executive branch of the government for putting his rough ridin' rockets in the air or whatever the eff and going to Mars. It ain’t my goal brother, that’s his rough ridin' goal. He staked everything on it. I think he’d suck anybody’s dick who help him get thereWhat are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.And kind of a dick move bringing up immigrants and trans people when you know goddamn well that my views align with yours on those issues. I just completely reject all of this partisan bullshit.
I only bring it up because you said electing trump was elon's life goal or whatever.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:05:42 PM
No, I think it’s exactly identical to both the motive and gesture of Kamala and Walz.Ok so you agree they are different now?So it’s your opinion that Elon Musk has a the requisite level of hand eye coordination to pull that off with hundreds of people staring at him after having just gave an impassioned thank you for assistance and helping him reach his life goal? I can barely find the rough ridin' fairway if three of my buddies from high school are watching me tee off.I mean, I guess we just have to take on faith that while Walz and Elon’s gestures were absolutely identical that they mean 100% different things?I think it's in bad faith to say the gestures are "absolutely identical". Like the walz and kamala videos both obscure their hands, for example. Kind of important if you're going to claim the two are identical to elon's stiff non hand waving salute. I've never seen a sig heil with a waving hand, have you?
I don't think we can go any farther if you actually believe what you're saying here and aren't just playing devil's advocate or doing a bit.
Claiming he unintentionally did a sieg heil because he is uncoordinated is a lot different than saying it was "absolutely identical" to kamala and walz's arm waving.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 12:06:44 PM
No, the support of the executive branch of the government for putting his rough ridin' rockets in the air or whatever the eff and going to Mars. It ain’t my goal brother, that’s his rough ridin' goal. He staked everything on it. I think he’d suck anybody’s dick who help him get thereWhat are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.And kind of a dick move bringing up immigrants and trans people when you know goddamn well that my views align with yours on those issues. I just completely reject all of this partisan bullshit.
I only bring it up because you said electing trump was elon's life goal or whatever.
So Elon doesn't actually hate immigrants and trans people, he just pretends to so he can get government contracts? That's your argument?
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:07:37 PM
I don’t know if he does or doesn’t I sure haven’t seen him say anything that expressly addresses that you’re welcome to deduce what you want to deduce.No, the support of the executive branch of the government for putting his rough ridin' rockets in the air or whatever the eff and going to Mars. It ain’t my goal brother, that’s his rough ridin' goal. He staked everything on it. I think he’d suck anybody’s dick who help him get thereWhat are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.And kind of a dick move bringing up immigrants and trans people when you know goddamn well that my views align with yours on those issues. I just completely reject all of this partisan bullshit.
I only bring it up because you said electing trump was elon's life goal or whatever.
So Elon doesn't actually hate immigrants and trans people, he just pretends to so he can get government contracts? That's your argument?
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 12:08:11 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:08:24 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:09:21 PM
Before Elon started very publicly hating non-white people and trans people, did democrats ban him from getting government money?I don’t think immigrants under H1B visas frequently come from the white countries, and I suspect that Elon means that he was gonna be bringing in Asian immigrants under those H1B vises that he said he would fight to the death to preserve or whatever the eff, but I admit that this is me speculating based upon all available information
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:10:26 PM
Before Elon started very publicly hating non-white people and trans people, did democrats ban him from getting government money?Are you familiar with who the guy was named James Webb who this fantastic space telescope is named after?
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 12:15:32 PM
Elon wanting to launch rockets to Mars to save the species has a very emo hunts elk so his infant child is able to eat feel to it. And should rightfully be mocked. That doesn't mean going to mars isn't cool just because.
Post by: michigancat on January 26, 2025, 12:16:23 PM
Go pull the quotes thenWho is saying that stuff?Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
There have been plenty of great German contributions to global culture but it isn't so great that they like need to keep their bloodlines clean or pretend like the Holocaust wasn't also a major part of their cultural contributions.
Elon Musk at the ADF convention
good grief man what do you think he means by this speech
https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1883210731845550324
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 12:16:59 PM
Before Elon started very publicly hating non-white people and trans people, did democrats ban him from getting government money?Are you familiar with who the guy was named James Webb who this fantastic space telescope is named after?
No not particularly. I remember a kerfuffle after the naming, a sex pest or something maybe?
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:17:40 PM
For the record, Pete, I absolutely share a pretty similar outlook as you. There are bad people everywhere. I don't care if we do business with "bad" countries. Do whatever you want inside your borders but don't eff with our crap, our friend's crap, or global commerce. Guess what everyone gets rich like this. I also don't really care about the survival of humans.OK, I agree with almost all of that. I’m just saying we need the [redacted] and the motherfuckers like him. We need his goddamn AI venture even more than the space crap. We need fierce unrelenting competition amongst all of our AI companies to be the very best in the world because if America’s rough ridin' crap ain’t the best We’re all gonna be in for a bumpy ride.
Elon wanting to launch rockets to Mars to save the species has a very emo hunts elk so his infant child is able to eat feel to it. And should rightfully be mocked. That doesn't mean going to mars isn't cool just because.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:18:48 PM
He overtly hated gay people. And he was a rough ridin' genius that made massive contributions to our country’s science and technology.Before Elon started very publicly hating non-white people and trans people, did democrats ban him from getting government money?Are you familiar with who the guy was named James Webb who this fantastic space telescope is named after?
No not particularly. I remember a kerfuffle after the naming, a sex pest or something maybe?
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:19:43 PM
We just got done several posts earlier agreeing that Germans have many positive cultural attributes did we not?Go pull the quotes thenWho is saying that stuff?Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
There have been plenty of great German contributions to global culture but it isn't so great that they like need to keep their bloodlines clean or pretend like the Holocaust wasn't also a major part of their cultural contributions.
Elon Musk at the ADF convention
good grief man what do you think he means by this speech
https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1883210731845550324
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 12:20:53 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:22:00 PM
I come from nearly entirely German heritage. The hardest working motherfuckers that I have ever observed in my entire life.
I do not think that they were genetically predisposed that way. I think they came from a culture of that attitude and focus and shared values. I think that there are many other similarly effective cultures around the globe both today historically. Many have likely gone extinct over history.
For those that have gone extinct, I wonder why they are extinct? Did all of them go extinct as a result of being conquered outright and eliminated by a foe?
This question above is for Michigangat
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:22:48 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:23:42 PM
Post by: michigancat on January 26, 2025, 12:23:51 PM
We just got done several posts earlier agreeing that Germans have many positive cultural attributes did we not?Go pull the quotes thenWho is saying that stuff?Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
There have been plenty of great German contributions to global culture but it isn't so great that they like need to keep their bloodlines clean or pretend like the Holocaust wasn't also a major part of their cultural contributions.
Elon Musk at the ADF convention
good grief man what do you think he means by this speech
https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1883210731845550324
Do you think they have made enough positive contributions that they shouldn't be "diluted by multicultural"? What do you think "diluted by multiculturalism" means? What sins did their parents and grandparents commit that they shouldn't feel guilty for? Are those sins part of "German Culture?" I did notice the only specific "German culture" aspect Elon mentioned was their great warrior culture. Curious!
Post by: michigancat on January 26, 2025, 12:25:44 PM
Rusty in your opinion, what are the top three, five, 10 even, things that make cultures change?
I haven't thought of it too deeply but holocausts would have to be near the top. So is starting World Wars.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:26:19 PM
Quote
Here is a list of technologically and socially progressive first-world countries with ministries or governmental departments focused on culture:
- **Canada**: Department of Canadian Heritage[1][3].
- **Denmark**: Ministry of Culture[1][3].
- **France**: Ministère de la Culture[1][3].
- **Germany**: Federal Government Commissioner for Culture and the Media[1][3].
- **Iceland**: Ministry of Education and Children[1][3].
- **Japan**: Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science, and Technology[1][3].
- **Netherlands**: Ministry of Education, Culture, and Science[1][3].
- **South Korea**: Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism[2][3].
- **Sweden**: Ministry of Culture[1][3].
- **United Kingdom**: Department for Culture, Media, and Sport[1][3].
Sources
[1] Category:Culture ministries - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Culture_ministries
[2] The Growth of South Korean Soft Power and Its Geopolitical ... https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/JIPA/Display/Article/3212634/the-growth-of-south-korean-soft-power-and-its-geopolitical-implications/
[3] Ministry of Culture - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Culture
[4] First World Country | Definition & List - Lesson - Study.com https://study.com/learn/lesson/first-world-countries-examples.html
[5] [PDF] Annexure-I List of Countries with whom Ministry of Culture ... https://static.pib.gov.in/WriteReadData/specificdocs/documents/2024/aug/doc202488369801.pdf
[6] First World Countries 2024 - World Population Review https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/first-world-countries
[7] List of national authorities and National Commissions https://ich.unesco.org/en/list-of-national-authorities-and-national-commissions-00405
[8] First World - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:29:14 PM
Excellent I agree with that. Therefore, it’s probably important to be specific in not citing those things as the things that should be continued. Has Elon ever cited those as things that should be continued? You and I have agreed that there are many wonderful attributes of the German culture that he could be referring to. Is it your opinion that he is not referring to those things that you and I agree on? This guy that seems super concerned with manufacturing efficiency is a huge fanboy of engineering prowess, of lofty technological achievements. You don’t think that there’s a chance that he might be referring to some of those things that you and I agree with about the German culture in heritage of hard work and engineering? Not even a Chance?Rusty in your opinion, what are the top three, five, 10 even, things that make cultures change?
I haven't thought of it too deeply but holocausts would have to be near the top. So is starting World Wars.
Post by: Trim on January 26, 2025, 12:29:59 PM
a very emo hunts elk so his infant child is able to eat feel to it.
:lol:
Post by: Kat Kid on January 26, 2025, 12:31:13 PM
What could possibly go wrong? We have entire genres of ancient literature dedicated to this.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 12:32:33 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:33:03 PM
Post by: michigancat on January 26, 2025, 12:33:20 PM
Excellent I agree with that. Therefore, it’s probably important to be specific in not citing those things as the things that should be continued. Has Elon ever cited those as things that should be continued? You and I have agreed that there are many wonderful attributes of the German culture that he could be referring to. Is it your opinion that he is not referring to those things that you and I agree on? This guy that seems super concerned with manufacturing efficiency is a huge fanboy of engineering prowess, of lofty technological achievements. You don’t think that there’s a chance that he might be referring to some of those things that you and I agree with about the German culture in heritage of hard work and engineering? Not even a Chance?Rusty in your opinion, what are the top three, five, 10 even, things that make cultures change?
I haven't thought of it too deeply but holocausts would have to be near the top. So is starting World Wars.
He only explicitly cited the strong warrior culture and asked to not feel guilty about sins of their parents and grandparents (which I'm pretty sure was the Holocaust. He could have mentioned manufacturing efficiency or like, symphonies, but he sure didn't.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:33:43 PM
Imagine being the world's richest person, having a level of power and influence on par with a Roman emperor and you are one of the most insecure people alive. Desperate for adulation and worship, lashing out at anyone who criticizes or questions them and spend a good chunk of your day reading and posting on twitter.Is it your opinion that at any given point in time in history that people with immense power were free from the attributes that you ascribe to Elon Musk?
What could possibly go wrong? We have entire genres of ancient literature dedicated to this.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:35:01 PM
I gotta tell you I don’t think this makes your case any clearer or strongerExcellent I agree with that. Therefore, it’s probably important to be specific in not citing those things as the things that should be continued. Has Elon ever cited those as things that should be continued? You and I have agreed that there are many wonderful attributes of the German culture that he could be referring to. Is it your opinion that he is not referring to those things that you and I agree on? This guy that seems super concerned with manufacturing efficiency is a huge fanboy of engineering prowess, of lofty technological achievements. You don’t think that there’s a chance that he might be referring to some of those things that you and I agree with about the German culture in heritage of hard work and engineering? Not even a Chance?Rusty in your opinion, what are the top three, five, 10 even, things that make cultures change?
I haven't thought of it too deeply but holocausts would have to be near the top. So is starting World Wars.
He only explicitly cited the strong warrior culture and asked to not feel guilty about sins of their parents and grandparents (which I'm pretty sure was the Holocaust. He could have mentioned manufacturing efficiency or like, symphonies, but he sure didn't.
Post by: Trim on January 26, 2025, 12:36:24 PM
Imagine being the world's richest person, having a level of power and influence on par with a Roman emperor and you are one of the most insecure people alive. Desperate for adulation and worship, lashing out at anyone who criticizes or questions them and spend a good chunk of your day reading and posting on twitter.Is it your opinion that at any given point in time in history that people with immense power were free from the attributes that you ascribe to Elon Musk?
What could possibly go wrong? We have entire genres of ancient literature dedicated to this.
Warren Buffet? Steve Ballmer?
Post by: Trim on January 26, 2025, 12:37:14 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:37:25 PM
I don’t think those dudes have really that much power at all so if your contention is that they are equal with Elon Musk in power then I really think you guys are making too big of a deal out of Elon Musk.Imagine being the world's richest person, having a level of power and influence on par with a Roman emperor and you are one of the most insecure people alive. Desperate for adulation and worship, lashing out at anyone who criticizes or questions them and spend a good chunk of your day reading and posting on twitter.Is it your opinion that at any given point in time in history that people with immense power were free from the attributes that you ascribe to Elon Musk?
What could possibly go wrong? We have entire genres of ancient literature dedicated to this.
Warren Buffet? Steve Ballmer?
Post by: michigancat on January 26, 2025, 12:38:02 PM
I gotta tell you I don’t think this makes your case any clearer or strongerExcellent I agree with that. Therefore, it’s probably important to be specific in not citing those things as the things that should be continued. Has Elon ever cited those as things that should be continued? You and I have agreed that there are many wonderful attributes of the German culture that he could be referring to. Is it your opinion that he is not referring to those things that you and I agree on? This guy that seems super concerned with manufacturing efficiency is a huge fanboy of engineering prowess, of lofty technological achievements. You don’t think that there’s a chance that he might be referring to some of those things that you and I agree with about the German culture in heritage of hard work and engineering? Not even a Chance?Rusty in your opinion, what are the top three, five, 10 even, things that make cultures change?
I haven't thought of it too deeply but holocausts would have to be near the top. So is starting World Wars.
He only explicitly cited the strong warrior culture and asked to not feel guilty about sins of their parents and grandparents (which I'm pretty sure was the Holocaust. He could have mentioned manufacturing efficiency or like, symphonies, but he sure didn't.
Ok
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 12:39:24 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:39:59 PM
Maybe also shitloads of people we don't know about b/c they just do their own thing enjoying their money on a beach or whatever?I think it’s a mistake to equate money with power. I think usually it’s necessary but I think almost always it’s insufficient.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 12:46:06 PM
Pete, does the audience matter in your interpretation of elon's comments? He's saying this to a group of people who's top priority is "no muzzies".
Pete, maybe you missed this question in the mod'ening
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 12:46:50 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:50:28 PM
I suspect that the root of the concerns that the people have that he was speaking to and what he was trying to address was “we are fearful our culture is going to change.”Pete, does the audience matter in your interpretation of elon's comments? He's saying this to a group of people who's top priority is "no muzzies".
Pete, maybe you missed this question in the mod'ening
My questions to you are: 1. Do you think that that is an illegitimate fear, 2. are they incorrectly attributing cultural risk to the influx of people with a different culture, and 3. is it possible at all to have a conversation about positive German culture?
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 12:54:04 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 12:55:12 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:56:32 PM
Followup, does Elon believe the far right (globally) are just more easily manipulated to allow him to save the species from ai? Orrrr, does the far right really just have progressive views on ai defense and Elon is making the best of a poor situation?I totally think it’s a means to an end. I absolutely think he believes that an authoritarian structure is the fastest and most efficient way to achieve what he wants. I think anybody who studied history agrees that that’s the fastest most efficient way to achieve anything.
As I’ve said, I think he is absolutely a piece of crap so that fits with the piece of crap narrative that I am putting forth .
Post by: steve dave on January 26, 2025, 12:56:39 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:58:57 PM
Cultures aren't good or evil. They aren't worth spending time or resources for preservation. I don't know much about Germany's immigration situation, but if it's anything like ours, claiming that allowing the hardest-working people they have to continue immigrating and finding work will somehow make their culture lazier or less hard-working is ridiculous and also very racist.I think our entrepreneurial culture in America is absolutely a significant part of why we are in the economic situation that we are in today. Almost as important as it was that we didn’t get totally bombed out during World War II and were able to dominate coming out of World War II because we had factories, but not as important as that historical luck sack for America (the factories and non-bombed out country were a bigger deal)
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 12:59:04 PM
One should also keep in mind he is very much influenced by the likes of Curtis Yarvin. He 'interest' in saving humanity is not inclusive of anything beyond him and his inner circle of tech bros.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 12:59:49 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250126/ff0e25a43b122c629cbc260f4b0e8fa6.jpg)Yeah, I don’t have a super long list of worlds most powerful dudes at any given time that didn’t include the disclaimer that they made my skin crawl.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:01:11 PM
Elon Musk is dedicated to eliminating what he considers the woke mind virus. That is one reason why he has aligned with MAGA. The other reason is the hope that MAGA does indeed burn it all down.I can’t disagree with any of that. And I also believe that that nasty little bug of his doesn’t diminish the utility of the things that he’s brought to our country.
One should also keep in mind he is very much influenced by the likes of Curtis Yarvin. He 'interest' in saving humanity is not inclusive of anything beyond him and his inner circle of tech bros.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:01:11 PM
Followup, does Elon believe the far right (globally) are just more easily manipulated to allow him to save the species from ai? Orrrr, does the far right really just have progressive views on ai defense and Elon is making the best of a poor situation?I totally think it’s a means to an end. I absolutely think he believes that an authoritarian structure is the fastest and most efficient way to achieve what he wants. I think anybody who studied history agrees that that’s the fastest most efficient way to achieve anything.
As I’ve said, I think he is absolutely a piece of crap so that fits with the piece of crap narrative that I am putting forth .
Fascism has a proven history of achieving poverty. I think all of these supposed benefits only exist in your head.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:02:41 PM
I suspect that the root of the concerns that the people have that he was speaking to and what he was trying to address was “we are fearful our culture is going to change.”Pete, does the audience matter in your interpretation of elon's comments? He's saying this to a group of people who's top priority is "no muzzies".
Pete, maybe you missed this question in the mod'ening
My questions to you are: 1. Do you think that that is an illegitimate fear, 2. are they incorrectly attributing cultural risk to the influx of people with a different culture, and 3. is it possible at all to have a conversation about positive German culture?
I don't have enough of an opinion on Germany, it's culture, or politics to answer properly, but I will as it relates to America (I hope that will be acceptable).
1) not wholly illegitimate, it's a fundamental fear of change, a human emotion. Functionally, yes, it's illegitimate.
2) yes
3) probably
I still have not found the relevance of Germany's pure blood on ai and rockets.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:02:51 PM
Followup, does Elon believe the far right (globally) are just more easily manipulated to allow him to save the species from ai? Orrrr, does the far right really just have progressive views on ai defense and Elon is making the best of a poor situation?I totally think it’s a means to an end. I absolutely think he believes that an authoritarian structure is the fastest and most efficient way to achieve what he wants. I think anybody who studied history agrees that that’s the fastest most efficient way to achieve anything.
As I’ve said, I think he is absolutely a piece of crap so that fits with the piece of crap narrative that I am putting forth .
Fascism has a proven history of achieving poverty. I think all of these supposed benefits only exist in your head.
Well, with that kind of attitude, you’re never gonna get a NeuroLink if you get paralyzed!
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:04:05 PM
I too find it hard to believe that any sort of pureblood argument has anything to do with benefiting AI or rockets or anything like that which must lead a reasonable person to conclude that it’s more about the society that’s laser focused at all cost on achieving ruthless maximum efficiency in production.I suspect that the root of the concerns that the people have that he was speaking to and what he was trying to address was “we are fearful our culture is going to change.”Pete, does the audience matter in your interpretation of elon's comments? He's saying this to a group of people who's top priority is "no muzzies".
Pete, maybe you missed this question in the mod'ening
My questions to you are: 1. Do you think that that is an illegitimate fear, 2. are they incorrectly attributing cultural risk to the influx of people with a different culture, and 3. is it possible at all to have a conversation about positive German culture?
I don't have enough of an opinion on Germany, it's culture, or politics to answer properly, but I will as it relates to America (I hope that will be acceptable).
1) not wholly illegitimate, it's a fundamental fear of change, a human emotion. Functionally, yes, it's illegitimate.
2) yes
3) probably
I still have not found the relevance of Germany's pure blood on ai and rockets.
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 01:04:31 PM
Elon Musk is dedicated to eliminating what he considers the woke mind virus. That is one reason why he has aligned with MAGA. The other reason is the hope that MAGA does indeed burn it all down.I can’t disagree with any of that. And I also believe that that nasty little bug of his doesn’t diminish the utility of the things that he’s brought to our country.
One should also keep in mind he is very much influenced by the likes of Curtis Yarvin. He 'interest' in saving humanity is not inclusive of anything beyond him and his inner circle of tech bros.
I don't think he's brought much, by himself ,to our country. His role in various technologies is vastly vastly overrated.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:05:33 PM
OK, maybe it’s somebody else who put all those rough ridin' satellites in spaceElon Musk is dedicated to eliminating what he considers the woke mind virus. That is one reason why he has aligned with MAGA. The other reason is the hope that MAGA does indeed burn it all down.I can’t disagree with any of that. And I also believe that that nasty little bug of his doesn’t diminish the utility of the things that he’s brought to our country.
One should also keep in mind he is very much influenced by the likes of Curtis Yarvin. He 'interest' in saving humanity is not inclusive of anything beyond him and his inner circle of tech bros.
I don't think he's brought much to our country. His role in various technologies is vastly vastly overrated.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:05:49 PM
Followup, does Elon believe the far right (globally) are just more easily manipulated to allow him to save the species from ai? Orrrr, does the far right really just have progressive views on ai defense and Elon is making the best of a poor situation?I totally think it’s a means to an end. I absolutely think he believes that an authoritarian structure is the fastest and most efficient way to achieve what he wants. I think anybody who studied history agrees that that’s the fastest most efficient way to achieve anything.
As I’ve said, I think he is absolutely a piece of crap so that fits with the piece of crap narrative that I am putting forth .
Fascism has a proven history of achieving poverty. I think all of these supposed benefits only exist in your head.
Well, with that kind of attitude, you’re never gonna get a NeuroLink if you get paralyzed!
Why would anyone capable of designing a neurolink stay here if crap hits the fan? They would go somewhere that people are free, just like the Germans that helped us build the bomb did
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:06:58 PM
So is it your opinion that like if Elon leaves the country he’ll just put all that in his brief case and then we won’t have it anymore?Followup, does Elon believe the far right (globally) are just more easily manipulated to allow him to save the species from ai? Orrrr, does the far right really just have progressive views on ai defense and Elon is making the best of a poor situation?I totally think it’s a means to an end. I absolutely think he believes that an authoritarian structure is the fastest and most efficient way to achieve what he wants. I think anybody who studied history agrees that that’s the fastest most efficient way to achieve anything.
As I’ve said, I think he is absolutely a piece of crap so that fits with the piece of crap narrative that I am putting forth .
Fascism has a proven history of achieving poverty. I think all of these supposed benefits only exist in your head.
Well, with that kind of attitude, you’re never gonna get a NeuroLink if you get paralyzed!
Why would anyone capable of designing a neurolink stay here if crap hits the fan? They would go somewhere that people are free, just like the Germans that helped us build the bomb did
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:07:08 PM
I too find it hard to believe that any sort of pureblood argument has anything to do with benefiting AI or rockets or anything like that which must lead a reasonable person to conclude that it’s more about the society that’s laser focused at all cost on achieving ruthless maximum efficiency in production.I suspect that the root of the concerns that the people have that he was speaking to and what he was trying to address was “we are fearful our culture is going to change.”Pete, does the audience matter in your interpretation of elon's comments? He's saying this to a group of people who's top priority is "no muzzies".
Pete, maybe you missed this question in the mod'ening
My questions to you are: 1. Do you think that that is an illegitimate fear, 2. are they incorrectly attributing cultural risk to the influx of people with a different culture, and 3. is it possible at all to have a conversation about positive German culture?
I don't have enough of an opinion on Germany, it's culture, or politics to answer properly, but I will as it relates to America (I hope that will be acceptable).
1) not wholly illegitimate, it's a fundamental fear of change, a human emotion. Functionally, yes, it's illegitimate.
2) yes
3) probably
I still have not found the relevance of Germany's pure blood on ai and rockets.
I think you're being naive, he's using his influence on the causes he cares most about and it ain't rockets and ai.
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 01:07:21 PM
OK, maybe it’s somebody else who put all those rough ridin' satellites in spaceElon Musk is dedicated to eliminating what he considers the woke mind virus. That is one reason why he has aligned with MAGA. The other reason is the hope that MAGA does indeed burn it all down.I can’t disagree with any of that. And I also believe that that nasty little bug of his doesn’t diminish the utility of the things that he’s brought to our country.
One should also keep in mind he is very much influenced by the likes of Curtis Yarvin. He 'interest' in saving humanity is not inclusive of anything beyond him and his inner circle of tech bros.
I don't think he's brought much to our country. His role in various technologies is vastly vastly overrated.
It was, it was a whole company that did it. But yes I'll grant you that he supplied some money to the effort.
I don't buy into the great man of history narrative.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:08:49 PM
Dude, nobody rough ridin' believes he invented any of that rough ridin' crap, but nobody has proven in our lifetime to be able to get crap to market like him. You gotta go back to the old trustbuster days to find an oligarch who can get crap to market like him. The math speaks for itself. He’s single-handedly, proving that legacy defense contractors have been robbing us blind for generations. His ability to rough ridin' out maneuver them at a fraction of the cost in the space Race is absolutely transferable, and it is currently being transferred to all areas of defense.OK, maybe it’s somebody else who put all those rough ridin' satellites in spaceElon Musk is dedicated to eliminating what he considers the woke mind virus. That is one reason why he has aligned with MAGA. The other reason is the hope that MAGA does indeed burn it all down.I can’t disagree with any of that. And I also believe that that nasty little bug of his doesn’t diminish the utility of the things that he’s brought to our country.
One should also keep in mind he is very much influenced by the likes of Curtis Yarvin. He 'interest' in saving humanity is not inclusive of anything beyond him and his inner circle of tech bros.
I don't think he's brought much to our country. His role in various technologies is vastly vastly overrated.
It was, it was a whole company that did it.
I don't buy into the great man of history narrative.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:10:01 PM
So is it your opinion that like if Elon leaves the country he’ll just put all that in his brief case and then we won’t have it anymore?Followup, does Elon believe the far right (globally) are just more easily manipulated to allow him to save the species from ai? Orrrr, does the far right really just have progressive views on ai defense and Elon is making the best of a poor situation?I totally think it’s a means to an end. I absolutely think he believes that an authoritarian structure is the fastest and most efficient way to achieve what he wants. I think anybody who studied history agrees that that’s the fastest most efficient way to achieve anything.
As I’ve said, I think he is absolutely a piece of crap so that fits with the piece of crap narrative that I am putting forth .
Fascism has a proven history of achieving poverty. I think all of these supposed benefits only exist in your head.
Well, with that kind of attitude, you’re never gonna get a NeuroLink if you get paralyzed!
Why would anyone capable of designing a neurolink stay here if crap hits the fan? They would go somewhere that people are free, just like the Germans that helped us build the bomb did
I'm of the opinion that Elon knows nothing at all about rockets, satellites, cars, or social network development, and the world would be a better place if he died today.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:10:47 PM
I agree with you that he’s not the inventor of any of those things. he’s a promoter. He’s a cheerleader. He gets them to market and they flourish and our country is gonna reap gigantic benefits of that. The displacement of the legacy defense contractors is wonderful for America.So is it your opinion that like if Elon leaves the country he’ll just put all that in his brief case and then we won’t have it anymore?Followup, does Elon believe the far right (globally) are just more easily manipulated to allow him to save the species from ai? Orrrr, does the far right really just have progressive views on ai defense and Elon is making the best of a poor situation?I totally think it’s a means to an end. I absolutely think he believes that an authoritarian structure is the fastest and most efficient way to achieve what he wants. I think anybody who studied history agrees that that’s the fastest most efficient way to achieve anything.
As I’ve said, I think he is absolutely a piece of crap so that fits with the piece of crap narrative that I am putting forth .
Fascism has a proven history of achieving poverty. I think all of these supposed benefits only exist in your head.
Well, with that kind of attitude, you’re never gonna get a NeuroLink if you get paralyzed!
Why would anyone capable of designing a neurolink stay here if crap hits the fan? They would go somewhere that people are free, just like the Germans that helped us build the bomb did
I'm of the opinion that Elon knows nothing at all about rockets, satellites, cars, or social network development, and the world would be a better place if he died today.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:12:53 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:13:02 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:13:37 PM
Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 01:14:05 PM
Dude, nobody rough ridin' believes he invented any of that rough ridin' crap, but nobody has proven in our lifetime to be able to get crap to market like him. You gotta go back to the old trustbuster days to find an oligarch who can get crap to market like him. The math speaks for itself. He’s single-handedly, proving that legacy defense contractors have been robbing us blind for generations. His ability to rough ridin' out maneuver them at a fraction of the cost in the space Race is absolutely transferable, and it is currently being transferred to all areas of defense.OK, maybe it’s somebody else who put all those rough ridin' satellites in spaceElon Musk is dedicated to eliminating what he considers the woke mind virus. That is one reason why he has aligned with MAGA. The other reason is the hope that MAGA does indeed burn it all down.I can’t disagree with any of that. And I also believe that that nasty little bug of his doesn’t diminish the utility of the things that he’s brought to our country.
One should also keep in mind he is very much influenced by the likes of Curtis Yarvin. He 'interest' in saving humanity is not inclusive of anything beyond him and his inner circle of tech bros.
I don't think he's brought much to our country. His role in various technologies is vastly vastly overrated.
It was, it was a whole company that did it.
I don't buy into the great man of history narrative.
Hey you admire who you want to. I happen to think these claims are vastly over exaggerated.
He's an excellent investor and entrepreneur. I don't think he's some extraordinary scientific visionary who we need to look past his horrific goals for.
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 01:14:55 PM
He wants the H1B visas to have a captive workforce he can freely abuse.Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:15:02 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:15:35 PM
So they just sit around and don’t do anything. Does he just keep them in like rough ridin' holding pens?He wants the H1B visas to have a captive workforce he can freely abuse.Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:16:18 PM
Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Even the nazi's had a "the good ones can stay" clause, they weren't idiots.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:16:23 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:17:12 PM
I mean, we brought a bunch of them here and employed them in our defense industry. Made them rich. Landed a man on the moon and captured the imagination of a generation of young engineers.Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Even the nazi's had a "the good ones can stay" clause, they weren't idiots.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:17:56 PM
He was born and raised in South rough ridin' Africa during apartheid. I just assume anybody who comes from that background has really mumped up and undesirable views on social matters. I’ve been to South Africa five times in my experience there the whites were pretty goddamn racist.
No way he was making a Nazi salute, though...
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 01:18:57 PM
No they do a lot of work. But they are not able to push back in any way to abuse or other bad behavior.So they just sit around and don’t do anything. Does he just keep them in like rough ridin' holding pens?He wants the H1B visas to have a captive workforce he can freely abuse.Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 01:19:58 PM
Chong, you’re a technology guy. So to speak would you say that there are way more people with your skills than there are jobs?No. Not for my particular job and skills.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:20:00 PM
ZING!He was born and raised in South rough ridin' Africa during apartheid. I just assume anybody who comes from that background has really mumped up and undesirable views on social matters. I’ve been to South Africa five times in my experience there the whites were pretty goddamn racist.
No way he was making a Nazi salute, though...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:20:16 PM
I mean, we brought a bunch of them here and employed them in our defense industry. Made them rich. Landed a man on the moon and captured the imagination of a generation of young engineers.Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Even the nazi's had a "the good ones can stay" clause, they weren't idiots.
Yes, they suffered severe brain drain and the United States was able to eclipse them technologically over the span of about a decade once they embraced fascism. Somehow you think that should be a selling point for us to embrace fascism.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:21:50 PM
Let’s broaden it. I’m under the impression that there are way more engineering jobs in this country than there are qualified engineers for those jobs. What’s the right solution to address that within the next 10 to 20 years?Chong, you’re a technology guy. So to speak would you say that there are way more people with your skills than there are jobs?No. Not for my particular job and skills.
I contend that the best option to address that gap is bringing smart people here. I also admit that Elon Musk will likely behave like every other rough ridin' capitalist and try to maximize his benefit and minimize his cost and profit maximize.
In short, that’s why I support labor unions.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:22:20 PM
I mean, we brought a bunch of them here and employed them in our defense industry. Made them rich. Landed a man on the moon and captured the imagination of a generation of young engineers.Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Even the nazi's had a "the good ones can stay" clause, they weren't idiots.
I think you missed my point
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:22:38 PM
You lost me. Are you saying that America only got the benefits from stealing all those Nazis and putting them in our science program once America embraced fascism?I mean, we brought a bunch of them here and employed them in our defense industry. Made them rich. Landed a man on the moon and captured the imagination of a generation of young engineers.Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Even the nazi's had a "the good ones can stay" clause, they weren't idiots.
Yes, they suffered severe brain drain and the United States was able to eclipse them technologically over the span of about a decade once they embraced fascism. Somehow you think that should be a selling point for us to embrace fascism.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:23:21 PM
I mean, I probably did. I’m holding six or seven of you fuckers off right now. A few of the things are gonna slip the cracks.I mean, we brought a bunch of them here and employed them in our defense industry. Made them rich. Landed a man on the moon and captured the imagination of a generation of young engineers.Does Elon think pure blood is a requirement for fascism or just a neat perk?I don’t know, but I would love to have the data on those H1B’s that he said he would fight to protect. I bet you most of them come from a diversity of bloods, so that kind of leans against the pure blood thing.
Even the nazi's had a "the good ones can stay" clause, they weren't idiots.
I think you missed my point
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:24:24 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:24:40 PM
I won’t. I’m the single breadwinner for my rough ridin' family. I might start looking for a new job if I find that out, but if I can’t find one that helps me to provide for my family as well, I’m staying right the eff where I’m at.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:25:36 PM
Let’s broaden it. I’m under the impression that there are way more engineering jobs in this country than there are qualified engineers for those jobs. What’s the right solution to address that within the next 10 to 20 years?Chong, you’re a technology guy. So to speak would you say that there are way more people with your skills than there are jobs?No. Not for my particular job and skills.
I contend that the best option to address that gap is bringing smart people here. I also admit that Elon Musk will likely behave like every other rough ridin' capitalist and try to maximize his benefit and minimize his cost and profit maximize.
In short, that’s why I support labor unions.
Engineers will be replaced with ai in 10 years unless we keep Germany pure
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:25:42 PM
I'm saying we got the scientists who didn't want to be Nazis once Germany embraced fascism.None of those rough ridin' scientist had any choice in the matter. Including when they were in Germany, and when they were forcibly brought to America, those motherfuckers were slaves.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:26:44 PM
I'm saying we got the scientists who didn't want to be Nazis once Germany embraced fascism.None of those rough ridin' scientist had any choice in the matter. Including when they were in Germany, and when they were forcibly brought to America, those motherfuckers were slaves.
Yes, so you repeatedly using them as a whitewash makes no sense.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:27:07 PM
Show hands here how many of you motherfuckers will quit your job if you find out that your company CEO is a bigot?
I won’t. I’m the single breadwinner for my rough ridin' family. I might start looking for a new job if I find that out, but if I can’t find one that helps me to provide for my family as well, I’m staying right the eff where I’m at.
I would find a new job. It's not that hard.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:27:53 PM
Let’s broaden it. I’m under the impression that there are way more engineering jobs in this country than there are qualified engineers for those jobs. What’s the right solution to address that within the next 10 to 20 years?Chong, you’re a technology guy. So to speak would you say that there are way more people with your skills than there are jobs?No. Not for my particular job and skills.
I contend that the best option to address that gap is bringing smart people here. I also admit that Elon Musk will likely behave like every other rough ridin' capitalist and try to maximize his benefit and minimize his cost and profit maximize.
In short, that’s why I support labor unions.
Engineers will be replaced with ai in 10 years unless we keep Germany pure
Or put another way if the culture of Germany drastically changed, we might have fewer and less effective engineers that come from Germany. I don’t happen to think that bringing in more Muslims will get rid of Germany’s culture of producing engineers. But I do think that there are people in Germany, who are worried about that.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:28:34 PM
Maybe at the level of income you’re interested in. How many mouths are you feeding these days?Show hands here how many of you motherfuckers will quit your job if you find out that your company CEO is a bigot?
I won’t. I’m the single breadwinner for my rough ridin' family. I might start looking for a new job if I find that out, but if I can’t find one that helps me to provide for my family as well, I’m staying right the eff where I’m at.
I would find a new job. It's not that hard.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:31:41 PM
I'm saying we got the scientists who didn't want to be Nazis once Germany embraced fascism.None of those rough ridin' scientist had any choice in the matter. Including when they were in Germany, and when they were forcibly brought to America, those motherfuckers were slaves.
I think we are talking about different people. I am referring to the scientists who fled in the 30s, and I think you are talking about the actual Nazis who we should have killed with nerve gas.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 01:32:02 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:33:18 PM
Maybe at the level of income you’re interested in. How many mouths are you feeding these days?Show hands here how many of you motherfuckers will quit your job if you find out that your company CEO is a bigot?
I won’t. I’m the single breadwinner for my rough ridin' family. I might start looking for a new job if I find that out, but if I can’t find one that helps me to provide for my family as well, I’m staying right the eff where I’m at.
I would find a new job. It's not that hard.
Money isn't everything. And I have also never switched jobs without getting a pay increase.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:33:38 PM
Let’s broaden it. I’m under the impression that there are way more engineering jobs in this country than there are qualified engineers for those jobs. What’s the right solution to address that within the next 10 to 20 years?Chong, you’re a technology guy. So to speak would you say that there are way more people with your skills than there are jobs?No. Not for my particular job and skills.
I contend that the best option to address that gap is bringing smart people here. I also admit that Elon Musk will likely behave like every other rough ridin' capitalist and try to maximize his benefit and minimize his cost and profit maximize.
In short, that’s why I support labor unions.
Engineers will be replaced with ai in 10 years unless we keep Germany pure
Or put another way if the culture of Germany drastically changed, we might have fewer and less effective engineers that come from Germany. I don’t happen to think that bringing in more Muslims will get rid of Germany’s culture of producing engineers. But I do think that there are people in Germany, who are worried about that.
Well we aren't talking about you Pete we are talking about Elon and your denial that he has any racial weirdness. (to be fair you have actually argued that of course he's racist just that none of his weird racial crap is intentional)
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 01:34:05 PM
Well Elon doesn't and that is a big reason he wants H1B visas protected. If all things were equal and he could get cheap, qualified white labor without the visas he would also support ending the H1B visa program.Let’s broaden it. I’m under the impression that there are way more engineering jobs in this country than there are qualified engineers for those jobs. What’s the right solution to address that within the next 10 to 20 years?Chong, you’re a technology guy. So to speak would you say that there are way more people with your skills than there are jobs?No. Not for my particular job and skills.
I contend that the best option to address that gap is bringing smart people here. I also admit that Elon Musk will likely behave like every other rough ridin' capitalist and try to maximize his benefit and minimize his cost and profit maximize.
In short, that’s why I support labor unions.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:34:58 PM
OK, nobody likes a guy who leaves the table with a bunch of cash so let me just say that all of you guys have won the argument today I have completely lost. There’s nothing left to debate please all of you go about your lives with the full satisfaction of victory, I’m going to log off and grab a sandwich
Have a great day Pete, I still love you. Go chiefs.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:37:31 PM
Post by: Trim on January 26, 2025, 01:39:05 PM
I’m holding six or seven of you fuckers off right now.
:lol:
Post by: Trim on January 26, 2025, 01:40:09 PM
Show hands here how many of you motherfuckers will quit your job if you find out that your company CEO is a bigot?
I won’t. I’m the single breadwinner for my rough ridin' family. I might start looking for a new job if I find that out, but if I can’t find one that helps me to provide for my family as well, I’m staying right the eff where I’m at.
I'd not buy their products. More of you people should do that re: tesla.
Post by: CHONGS on January 26, 2025, 01:52:08 PM
OK, nobody likes a guy who leaves the table with a bunch of cash so let me just say that all of you guys have won the argument today I have completely lost. There’s nothing left to debate please all of you go about your lives with the full satisfaction of victory, I’m going to log off and grab a sandwich
Have a great day Pete, I still love you. Go chiefs.
Me too. I don't want you to think any of this was personal.
Post by: CNS on January 26, 2025, 01:52:49 PM
Guys, I really recommend forgoing being a woke partisan $!#*. Root for America. Accept that crap head oligarchs can be useful and have proven to be over and over throughout American history, and world history.
Life is much, much easier when you try to accept what you can’t control and focus on the silver linings and ways to make the most of it.
Pete, I respect you. We've been posting here a long time. I agree with you all the time. I have missed most of this thread since my previous post and have only caught up to this comment, but I hope you don't think my concern is from being a woke partisan $!#*. I may be that, but I can assure you that I appreciate the nuance of this overall sitch and that I do want many, if not all, the stuff you want from tech. I think it reasonable to be concerned by the prospects of Elon's actions.
I am fully in agreement that we need to be leading the world in AI. Whoever doesn't will lose. Period. Same for quantum computing. I think we should have the best of the best constantly challenging, reviewing, and scrutinizing all the tech you note. We should be fully supporting it and we should be doing our best to tear it down, via debate, so that we know what comes out of it is good. The stakes are really rough ridin' high here, and I don't like going full gas/no brake with people that are as politically pliable as Elon, Bezos, Zuck, etc.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 01:56:50 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 01:58:18 PM
Post by: CNS on January 26, 2025, 01:58:47 PM
What are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.Everyone on this board will be watched, monitored and evaluated by an AI at one point in time in the future. The biggest danger to humanity lies in who gets to train and align that AI.
Have you been following what Larry Elisson has been saying about AI and surveillance of the citizenry? Have you also been following that Trump wants TikTok to be sold to Larry and Oracle? This is off topic to what I was getting at with Elon, but it is on topic for the path that this thread has taken. It's a great example of needing to slow our roll so that we don't end up with all the tech but end up being absolutely mumped by it. In the end, if we are absolutely harmed by the tech, does it matter if it's a foreign govt or Larry? Maybe. Maybe not. Who's to say Larry isn't worse? I honestly don't know and I am not qualified to know, but I also know that Donald rough ridin' Trump isn't qualified yet the above is actual news from this week. That is conerning.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on January 26, 2025, 02:10:08 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: wetwillie on January 26, 2025, 02:17:52 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 26, 2025, 02:19:50 PM
I wonder what kind of sandwich Pete made
Probably a schnitzel sandwich.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 26, 2025, 02:30:39 PM
What are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.Everyone on this board will be watched, monitored and evaluated by an AI at one point in time in the future. The biggest danger to humanity lies in who gets to train and align that AI.
Have you been following what Larry Elisson has been saying about AI and surveillance of the citizenry? Have you also been following that Trump wants TikTok to be sold to Larry and Oracle? This is off topic to what I was getting at with Elon, but it is on topic for the path that this thread has taken. It's a great example of needing to slow our roll so that we don't end up with all the tech but end up being absolutely mumped by it. In the end, if we are absolutely harmed by the tech, does it matter if it's a foreign govt or Larry? Maybe. Maybe not. Who's to say Larry isn't worse? I honestly don't know and I am not qualified to know, but I also know that Donald rough ridin' Trump isn't qualified yet the above is actual news from this week. That is conerning.
The whole thing has a very
Tech company: at long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from the classic sci-fi novel “Don’t Create The Torment Nexus”
Kind of feel.
Although I’m not sure anyone is debating that. I think even the most ardent supporters of AI recognize this will absolutely be used against humanity in general, I think the focus of the debate is will it be used for good, and if so will the good outweigh the bad
Post by: wetwillie on January 26, 2025, 02:32:54 PM
Did you guys hear about the Chinese dudes that were able to build their own chatgpt for like 6 million instead of the billions other models have taken? Is Elon washed and these dudes are the future?
What's this thing called
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 02:39:07 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 26, 2025, 02:41:08 PM
Did you guys hear about the Chinese dudes that were able to build their own chatgpt for like 6 million instead of the billions other models have taken? Is Elon washed and these dudes are the future?
What's this thing called
DeepSeek. everyone says it's rough ridin' incredible and far superior to anything else out there.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2025, 02:42:23 PM
Post by: wetwillie on January 26, 2025, 02:45:41 PM
Did you guys hear about the Chinese dudes that were able to build their own chatgpt for like 6 million instead of the billions other models have taken? Is Elon washed and these dudes are the future?
What's this thing called
DeepSeek. everyone says it's rough ridin' incredible and far superior to anything else out there.
They lulled us to sleep with tiktok and then deepseek'd our ass.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on January 26, 2025, 02:46:43 PM
I knew this was going to be the response and yet I still chuckledI wonder what kind of sandwich Pete made
Probably a schnitzel sandwich.
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Post by: mocat on January 26, 2025, 02:52:01 PM
I knew this was going to be the response and yet I still chuckledI wonder what kind of sandwich Pete made
Probably a schnitzel sandwich.
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It wasn't the best response I've ever seen, but it wasn't the wurst either
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 26, 2025, 02:55:09 PM
I knew this was going to be the response and yet I still chuckledI wonder what kind of sandwich Pete made
Probably a schnitzel sandwich.
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It wasn't the best response I've ever seen, but it wasn't the wurst either
It passed mustard
Post by: CNS on January 26, 2025, 03:37:17 PM
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 04:01:45 PM
I love you too, brotherOK, nobody likes a guy who leaves the table with a bunch of cash so let me just say that all of you guys have won the argument today I have completely lost. There’s nothing left to debate please all of you go about your lives with the full satisfaction of victory, I’m going to log off and grab a sandwich
Have a great day Pete, I still love you. Go chiefs.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 04:02:17 PM
I love you dearlyOK, nobody likes a guy who leaves the table with a bunch of cash so let me just say that all of you guys have won the argument today I have completely lost. There’s nothing left to debate please all of you go about your lives with the full satisfaction of victory, I’m going to log off and grab a sandwich
Have a great day Pete, I still love you. Go chiefs.
Me too. I don't want you to think any of this was personal.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 04:02:51 PM
I love and respect you too.Guys, I really recommend forgoing being a woke partisan $!#*. Root for America. Accept that crap head oligarchs can be useful and have proven to be over and over throughout American history, and world history.
Life is much, much easier when you try to accept what you can’t control and focus on the silver linings and ways to make the most of it.
Pete, I respect you. We've been posting here a long time. I agree with you all the time. I have missed most of this thread since my previous post and have only caught up to this comment, but I hope you don't think my concern is from being a woke partisan $!#*. I may be that, but I can assure you that I appreciate the nuance of this overall sitch and that I do want many, if not all, the stuff you want from tech. I think it reasonable to be concerned by the prospects of Elon's actions.
I am fully in agreement that we need to be leading the world in AI. Whoever doesn't will lose. Period. Same for quantum computing. I think we should have the best of the best constantly challenging, reviewing, and scrutinizing all the tech you note. We should be fully supporting it and we should be doing our best to tear it down, via debate, so that we know what comes out of it is good. The stakes are really rough ridin' high here, and I don't like going full gas/no brake with people that are as politically pliable as Elon, Bezos, Zuck, etc.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 04:03:10 PM
I did not have Pete turning into the board villain in 2025!Argh!
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Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 04:03:35 PM
YOU SONS OF BITCHES!I wonder what kind of sandwich Pete made
Probably a schnitzel sandwich.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 04:04:23 PM
This was appreciated by me a great dealI knew this was going to be the response and yet I still chuckledI wonder what kind of sandwich Pete made
Probably a schnitzel sandwich.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It wasn't the best response I've ever seen, but it wasn't the wurst either
Post by: LickNeckey on January 26, 2025, 04:12:22 PM
Not sure it is the right lens to view the situation through but The Dollop episodes on Elon have drastically shaped my perception of the man and his actions.
Learning that he was a kid who was largely neglected by his father and bullied by his peers. While partially being raised and having huge admiration for a grandfather that moved from Canada to South Africa because he appreciated the politics of apartheid and advocate of technocracy.
This is a quote from Errol
"My ex-wife's parents came to South Africa from Canada because they sympathised with the Afrikaner government. In fact, they were very fanatical about apartheid," he said. Moreover, when the grandfather was young, he joined the 'Technocracy Incorporated' movement, which supported technocrats ruling countries. They used to support Hitler. Obviously I don't think they knew what the Nazis were doing".
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 04:27:49 PM
Post by: CNS on January 26, 2025, 04:30:00 PM
Post by: LickNeckey on January 26, 2025, 04:32:59 PM
Post by: chum1 on January 26, 2025, 04:33:21 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 26, 2025, 04:59:25 PM
Bigger piece of crap sleazeball: Elon Musk or Thomas Edison?
I dunno…did some weather girl in Milwaukee get fired from her news station bc she was critical of Edison doing a Roman salute?
Post by: nicname on January 26, 2025, 05:29:17 PM
What are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.Everyone on this board will be watched, monitored and evaluated by an AI at one point in time in the future. The biggest danger to humanity lies in who gets to train and align that AI.
Have you been following what Larry Elisson has been saying about AI and surveillance of the citizenry? Have you also been following that Trump wants TikTok to be sold to Larry and Oracle? This is off topic to what I was getting at with Elon, but it is on topic for the path that this thread has taken. It's a great example of needing to slow our roll so that we don't end up with all the tech but end up being absolutely mumped by it. In the end, if we are absolutely harmed by the tech, does it matter if it's a foreign govt or Larry? Maybe. Maybe not. Who's to say Larry isn't worse? I honestly don't know and I am not qualified to know, but I also know that Donald rough ridin' Trump isn't qualified yet the above is actual news from this week. That is conerning.
The whole thing has a very
Tech company: at long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from the classic sci-fi novel “Don’t Create The Torment Nexus”
Kind of feel.
Although I’m not sure anyone is debating that. I think even the most ardent supporters of AI recognize this will absolutely be used against humanity in general, I think the focus of the debate is will it be used for good, and if so will the good outweigh the bad
It’s a tale as old as time, or at least since the line of Cain.
Post by: Stevesie60 on January 26, 2025, 05:30:54 PM
For the record Elon, I think you're a rough ridin' Nazi doofus. But my wife, daughter, and kid on the way all love you and think you're brilliant.
Post by: nicname on January 26, 2025, 05:32:24 PM
This was appreciated by me a great dealI knew this was going to be the response and yet I still chuckledI wonder what kind of sandwich Pete made
Probably a schnitzel sandwich.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It wasn't the best response I've ever seen, but it wasn't the wurst either
Spracne thread
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 05:34:00 PM
Ranked choice voting for sure.My full support!!!!!
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 05:37:23 PM
AI is going to suck balls and ass and taint. The key is to have one that is the least awful. I am firmly of the opinion that an American one is the least awful, and the best way for an American one to win is for good old fashioned American capitalism to drive those bastards to work their assess off to out fox the world and thereby enable America to “win.”What are the biggest dangers to the species right now? You know, besides non-white immigrants and trans people.Everyone on this board will be watched, monitored and evaluated by an AI at one point in time in the future. The biggest danger to humanity lies in who gets to train and align that AI.
Have you been following what Larry Elisson has been saying about AI and surveillance of the citizenry? Have you also been following that Trump wants TikTok to be sold to Larry and Oracle? This is off topic to what I was getting at with Elon, but it is on topic for the path that this thread has taken. It's a great example of needing to slow our roll so that we don't end up with all the tech but end up being absolutely mumped by it. In the end, if we are absolutely harmed by the tech, does it matter if it's a foreign govt or Larry? Maybe. Maybe not. Who's to say Larry isn't worse? I honestly don't know and I am not qualified to know, but I also know that Donald rough ridin' Trump isn't qualified yet the above is actual news from this week. That is conerning.
The whole thing has a very
Tech company: at long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from the classic sci-fi novel “Don’t Create The Torment Nexus”
Kind of feel.
Although I’m not sure anyone is debating that. I think even the most ardent supporters of AI recognize this will absolutely be used against humanity in general, I think the focus of the debate is will it be used for good, and if so will the good outweigh the bad
It’s a tale as old as time, or at least since the line of Cain.
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2025, 05:37:51 PM
I'm assuming Pete knows Elon (or one of his companies) is going to search the whole internet with AI and see who was nice to him. And now Pete has a lot of pro-Elon posts so he can be one of the chosen ones.This guy gets it.
For the record Elon, I think you're a rough ridin' Nazi doofus. But my wife, daughter, and kid on the way all love you and think you're brilliant.
Post by: steve dave on January 26, 2025, 07:30:21 PM
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Post by: CNS on January 26, 2025, 07:36:48 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 26, 2025, 08:24:18 PM
https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1883686946888901092?s=46https://x.com/pourteaux/status/1882655692030640188?t=SqP4v6J-KGOzFeJJuhy48w&s=19
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Post by: LickNeckey on January 26, 2025, 08:30:34 PM
https://www.tpr.org/podcast/the-source/2024-07-31/frontline-investigates-the-rise-of-the-neo-nazi-afd-party-in-germany
Post by: michigancat on January 27, 2025, 08:23:34 AM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1883406720548188186
Post by: Kat Kid on January 27, 2025, 08:50:38 AM
Elon Musk is dedicated to eliminating what he considers the woke mind virus. That is one reason why he has aligned with MAGA. The other reason is the hope that MAGA does indeed burn it all down.
One should also keep in mind he is very much influenced by the likes of Curtis Yarvin. He 'interest' in saving humanity is not inclusive of anything beyond him and his inner circle of tech bros.
The tech billionaires have created bunkers in New Zealand and dream of colonizing Mars and spreading their genetic material widely. They are 1) acutely aware of climate change and its knock on effects 2) preparing to save themselves 3) prepared to kill anyone who stands opposed
They don't fantasize about blasting off to Mars because they love humanity, they despise humans. They want a place where they can continue to live apart from the clamoring hordes.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2023/02/the-apocalyptic-delusions-of-the-silicon-valley-elite (https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2023/02/the-apocalyptic-delusions-of-the-silicon-valley-elite)
We have just watched a war in which quadcopter drones and AI target lists were used both to excuse the humans perpetrating this, and also to sanitize the experience with a layer of separation and safety. That was a practice round for the United States and ultimately the rest of the West.
Do you think Trump isn't going to look at that and bring it to the border? I do.
We are being de-sensitized to violence as a normal course of action from the state to be deployed against OTHERS. It is now so deeply embraced by many that there are large swathes of the population that would absolutely endorse concentration camps for immigrants and the homeless.
Don't worry about what you'll do in the future, decide what you will do today.
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2025, 09:00:52 AM
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Post by: Kat Kid on January 27, 2025, 09:02:44 AM
Colonizing Mars is about the dumbest thing anyone could be into. We have a perfectly good planet right here. It has an atmosphere and everything. Stuff lives on this planet.
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We can't even sustain life on Antarctica. It is dumb. No one watched Interstellar?
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2025, 09:04:13 AM
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Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2025, 09:04:40 AM
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Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2025, 09:06:49 AM
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Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 27, 2025, 09:08:05 AM
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2025, 09:40:00 AM
Is this your efficiency expert?Reminds me of the Apple III.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1883406720548188186
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2025, 09:44:11 AM
Hahaha JK, JK. Nah, this is tho. And remember, absolutely crushing the legacy defense contractors on price for performance is transferable to all areas of defense because it’s the exact same players. Disrupting defense spending to lower a top 5 cost line item in the budget could be how we can attempt to afford social programs, isn’t it?Is this your efficiency expert?Reminds me of the Apple III.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1883406720548188186
Quote
Here is a ranked list of major U.S. government spending on space-related operations with private companies since SpaceX's founding in 2002:
1. **SpaceX**: Over $4.9 billion under NASA’s Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) contract for ISS crew transport (2014–2030)[8]. Additionally, a $1 billion contract for the ISS deorbit vehicle[2][5].
2. **Boeing**: Significant funding under CCtCap, but less than SpaceX due to delays and technical issues[8].
3. **Orbital Sciences Corporation (now Northrop Grumman)**: $170 million for COTS cargo development in 2008[3].
4. **Rocketplane Kistler**: $207 million initially awarded but terminated in 2007 due to unmet milestones[3].
SpaceX dominates due to its cost-efficiency and reliability.
Sources
[1] R&D for space: Who is actually funding it? - McKinsey & Company https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/aerospace-and-defense/our-insights/r-and-d-for-space-who-is-actually-funding-it
[2] SpaceX's Valuation Tops $200B, Signs $1B NASA Contract to ... https://observer.com/2024/06/elon-musk-spacex-valuation-200b/
[3] GAO-09-618, NASA: Commercial Partners Are Making Progress, but ... https://www.gao.gov/assets/a291016.html
[4] New historic high for government space spending mostly driven by ... https://nova.space/press-release/new-historic-high-for-government-space-spending-mostly-driven-by-defense-expenditures/
[5] NASA awards SpaceX nearly $1 billion contract to build ISS deorbit ... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/27/spacex-internatnional-space-stastion/74229291007/
[6] Space launch market competition - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_launch_market_competition
[7] SCB, New and Revised Statistics for the U.S. Space Economy, 2017 ... https://apps.bea.gov/scb/issues/2024/06-june/0624-space-economy.htm
[8] NASA Awards SpaceX More Crew Flights to Space Station https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/nasa-awards-spacex-more-crew-flights-to-space-station/
[9] Your Guide to NASA's Budget | The Planetary Society https://www.planetary.org/space-policy/nasa-budget
[10] SpaceX just stomped the competition for a new contract—that's not ... https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/07/spacex-just-stomped-the-competition-for-a-new-contract-thats-not-great/
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2025, 09:47:38 AM
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2025, 09:53:21 AM
Quote
SpaceX has significantly reduced launch costs compared to legacy providers:
- **Falcon 9**: Costs approximately $17–$18.25 million internally per launch, with customer-facing prices around $69.75 million in 2024, achieving $2,720/kg to Low Earth Orbit (LEO)[2][7][10].
- **Starship**: Expected to lower costs to $200–$600/kg, potentially as low as $10/kg with advancements. A single launch could cost $2–$10 million in the future[1][5][9].
- **Legacy Providers**: NASA's Space Launch System (SLS) costs $2.5 billion per launch, or ~$54,500/kg for LEO[3][7].
SpaceX's reusability and efficiency offer up to 100x savings over traditional systems.
Sources
[1] Moore's Law Meet Musk's Law: The Underappreciated Story of ... https://www.aei.org/articles/moores-law-meet-musks-law-the-underappreciated-story-of-spacex-and-the-stunning-decline-in-launch-costs/
[2] Falcon 9 Launch Cost : r/SpaceXLounge - Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1d8fbds/falcon_9_launch_cost/
[3] Space Launch System - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System
[4] The new era of heavy launch - The Space Review https://www.thespacereview.com/article/4626/1
[5] SpaceX Starship Roadmap Lower Launch Costs by 100 Times https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2025/01/spacex-starship-roadmap-to-100-times-lower-cost-launch.html
[6] spacex - What is the cost breakdown for a Falcon 9 launch? https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/8330/what-is-the-cost-breakdown-for-a-falcon-9-launch
[7] [PDF] The Recent Large Reduction in Space Launch Cost https://ttu-ir.tdl.org/server/api/core/bitstreams/d4074c60-2e50-4e92-a49b-e2fbc2be4b91/content
[8] The Recent Large Reduction in Space Launch Cost https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20200001093
[9] The Starship revolution in space - ASPI Strategist https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-starship-revolution-in-space/
[10] Falcon 9 - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9
[11] Space launch market competition - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_launch_market_competition
[12] What is SpaceX doing differently with their Falcon 9 so that it doesn't ... https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/65806/what-is-spacex-doing-differently-with-their-falcon-9-so-that-it-doesnt-cost-as
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2025, 09:56:58 AM
Those concerns, while significant, do not change math. It is the single most effective way to disrupt legacy defense contractors and reduce defense spending while still attempting to maintain defense effectiveness.
I hope we find even more and better ways to reduce defense spending and if somebody’s got a better idea apart from just having less defense, I’m all ears.
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2025, 09:57:56 AM
Post by: michigancat on January 27, 2025, 10:16:59 AM
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2025, 10:25:04 AM
https://x.com/MarkLevineNYC/status/1883827197708046511Horrible miss. Hopefully the tunnel digging tech comes in handy someday in some other way.
I think it’s good that you’re still paying attention to the tunnel digging because absolutely nobody else is and this one could’ve slipped through the gaps .
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2025, 10:29:34 AM
Post by: DQ12 on January 27, 2025, 10:58:02 AM
If we get other tangential benefits (they have useful stuff there we could practically use in 200 years!), that's nice, but I don't really care about it.
Post by: wELLsculptedbrows on January 27, 2025, 11:20:23 AM
a very emo hunts elk so his infant child is able to eat feel to it.
:lol:
OMG
That dude's also 100,000% on the spectrum.
Post by: Spracne on January 27, 2025, 12:11:48 PM
Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
Pete is turning into affable dax ...
Post by: DQ12 on January 27, 2025, 01:32:36 PM
Cultures aren't good or evil.You don't think cultures are evil? I, for one, take the chiefs and bold position of thinking Nazi culture was evil.
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2025, 02:31:10 PM
Cultures aren't good or evil.You don't think cultures are evil? I, for one, take the chiefs and bold position of thinking Nazi culture was evil.
I think all extremely nationalistic cultures are evil
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2025, 02:33:54 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 27, 2025, 02:38:22 PM
Cultures aren't good or evil.You don't think cultures are evil? I, for one, take the chiefs and bold position of thinking Nazi culture was evil.
I would split the hair that Nazism is an ideology that existed within the German culture, just like it exists within present-day American culture.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 27, 2025, 07:06:34 PM
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2025, 07:51:22 AM
Some of the super nationalistic cultures never have a chance to cross the line into bad stuff, just due to fortunate circumstances. Bermuda seems pretty nationalistic. They wouldn’t even let Oprah buy a house there because here parents weren’t Bermudian, and I a dude I worked with married a gal from Bermuda had a kid and when they got divorced they kicked his ass out of the country.Cultures aren't good or evil.You don't think cultures are evil? I, for one, take the chiefs and bold position of thinking Nazi culture was evil.
I think all extremely nationalistic cultures are evil
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2025, 07:54:53 AM
I reject your labels! I’m probably still more liberal on many things than SD or Limestone, for example. I have made the decision to order off of the ala cart menu instead of the offered combo meals.Point taken.I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.
The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.
What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?
However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.
Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?
Pete is turning into affable dax ...
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2025, 08:34:46 AM
Quote
Dr. Philip Low 3rd+
Chairman, CEO & Founder, NeuroVigil; iBrain Inventor; Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness Author.
4d Edited
Follow
I have known Elon Musk at a deep level for 14 years, well before he was a household name. We used to text frequently. He would come to my birthday party and invite me to his parties. He would tell me everything about his women problems. As sons of highly accomplished men who married venuses, were violent and lost their fortunes, and who were bullied in high school, we had a number of things in common most people cannot relate to. We would hang out together late in Los Angeles. He would visit my San Diego lab. He invested in my company.
Elon is not a Nazi, per se.
He is something much better, or much worse, depending on how you look at it.
Nazis believed that an entire race was above everyone else.
Elon believes he is above everyone else. He used to think he worked on the most important problems. When I met him, he did not presume to be a technical person — he would be the first to say that he lacked the expertise to understand certain data. That happened later. Now, he believes he has all the solutions.
All his talk about getting to Mars to “maintain the light of consciousness” or about “free speech absolutism” is actually BS Elon knowingly feeds people to manipulate them. Everything Elon does is about acquiring and consolidating power. That is why he likes far right parties, because they are easier to control. That is also why he gave himself $56 Billion which could have gone to the people actually doing the work and innovations he is taking credit for at Tesla. His lust for power is also why he did xAI and Neuralink, to attempt to compete with OpenAI and NeuroVigil, respectively, despite being affiliated with them. Unlike Tesla and Twitter, he was unable to conquer those companies and tried to create rivals. I fired him with cause in December 2021 when he tried to undermine NV.
Elon did two Nazi salutes.
He did them for five main reasons:
1. He was concerned that the “Nazi wing” of the MAGA movement, under the influence of Steve Bannon, would drive him away from Trump, somewhere in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, rather than in the West Wing which is where he wants to be. He was already feeling raw over the fact that Trump did not follow his recommendation for Treasury Secretary and that the Senate also did not pick his first choice;
2. He was upset that he had had to go to Israel and Auschwitz to make up for agreeing with a Nazi sympathizer online and wanted to reclaim his “power” just like when he told advertisers to “go eff yourself”. This has nothing to do with Asperger’s;
3. There are some Jews he actually hates: Sam Altman is amongst them;
4. He enjoys a good thrill and knew exactly what he was doing;
5. His narcissistic self was hoping the audience would reflect his abject gesture back to him, thereby showing complete control and dominion over it, and increasing his leverage over Trump. That did not happen.
Bottom line: Elon is not a Nazi but he did give two Nazi Salutes, which is completely unacceptable.
Post by: LickNeckey on January 28, 2025, 08:57:55 AM
the idea that his actions were not intended to pander to that base feels ridiculous
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 09:24:47 AM
OK -- I think the culture that dominated Germany in the 1930s and 40s was evil. I think that culture (distinct from modern day German culture) was evil. If you want to lump all "German" culture together, you can, but I'm not doing that. I'm talking specifically about cultures during specific periods in a specific place. One is better than the other, in my view. One is more evil than the other.Cultures aren't good or evil.You don't think cultures are evil? I, for one, take the chiefs and bold position of thinking Nazi culture was evil.
I would split the hair that Nazism is an ideology that existed within the German culture, just like it exists within present-day American culture.
If you reject morally loaded words like "good" and "evil," OK. But if you can't say that "the culture that gave rise to the holocaust" is any better or worse, morally, than any other culture, then I'd say you have a very interesting world-view.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 28, 2025, 09:42:25 AM
OK -- I think the culture that dominated Germany in the 1930s and 40s was evil. I think that culture (distinct from modern day German culture) was evil. If you want to lump all "German" culture together, you can, but I'm not doing that. I'm talking specifically about cultures during specific periods in a specific place. One is better than the other, in my view. One is more evil than the other.Cultures aren't good or evil.You don't think cultures are evil? I, for one, take the chiefs and bold position of thinking Nazi culture was evil.
I would split the hair that Nazism is an ideology that existed within the German culture, just like it exists within present-day American culture.
If you reject morally loaded words like "good" and "evil," OK. But if you can't say that "the culture that gave rise to the holocaust" is any better or worse, morally, than any other culture, then I'd say you have a very interesting world-view.
I don't think any culture is any more or less susceptible to putting Nazis in charge than any other culture is.
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2025, 09:58:20 AM
I don't think any culture is any more or less susceptible to putting Nazis in charge than any other culture is.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people foolishly assume that Nazi Germany couldn't happen here. That sort of thing is the simply the result of regular, old human behavior.
Post by: nicname on January 28, 2025, 10:01:54 AM
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 10:34:02 AM
Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture. If you're making a comment on "human nature," sure ("It could happen again here...if the culture changed someday."). But if culture A promotes gas chambers or slavery or child sacrifice, I think that culture is morally/ethically worse than culture B, which doesn't do those things (and instead prioritizes other things, like improving infant mortality rates, and literacy, and art, for example). I don't know how you could say that those two hypothetical cultures are morally equivalent.OK -- I think the culture that dominated Germany in the 1930s and 40s was evil. I think that culture (distinct from modern day German culture) was evil. If you want to lump all "German" culture together, you can, but I'm not doing that. I'm talking specifically about cultures during specific periods in a specific place. One is better than the other, in my view. One is more evil than the other.Cultures aren't good or evil.You don't think cultures are evil? I, for one, take the chiefs and bold position of thinking Nazi culture was evil.
I would split the hair that Nazism is an ideology that existed within the German culture, just like it exists within present-day American culture.
If you reject morally loaded words like "good" and "evil," OK. But if you can't say that "the culture that gave rise to the holocaust" is any better or worse, morally, than any other culture, then I'd say you have a very interesting world-view.
I don't think any culture is any more or less susceptible to putting Nazis in charge than any other culture is.
Again, if you reject the concepts of morality or ethics, then that's OK. I disagree, but whatever.
But if you do think some things are more ethical or moral than others, I don't know why you couldn't make the same judgments on particular cultures.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 28, 2025, 10:39:17 AM
Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture. If you're making a comment on "human nature," sure ("It could happen again here...if the culture changed someday."). But if culture A promotes gas chambers or slavery or child sacrifice, I think that culture is morally/ethically worse than culture B, which doesn't do those things (and instead prioritizes other things, like improving infant mortality rates, and literacy, and art, for example). I don't know how you could say that those two hypothetical cultures are morally equivalent.OK -- I think the culture that dominated Germany in the 1930s and 40s was evil. I think that culture (distinct from modern day German culture) was evil. If you want to lump all "German" culture together, you can, but I'm not doing that. I'm talking specifically about cultures during specific periods in a specific place. One is better than the other, in my view. One is more evil than the other.Cultures aren't good or evil.You don't think cultures are evil? I, for one, take the chiefs and bold position of thinking Nazi culture was evil.
I would split the hair that Nazism is an ideology that existed within the German culture, just like it exists within present-day American culture.
If you reject morally loaded words like "good" and "evil," OK. But if you can't say that "the culture that gave rise to the holocaust" is any better or worse, morally, than any other culture, then I'd say you have a very interesting world-view.
I don't think any culture is any more or less susceptible to putting Nazis in charge than any other culture is.
Again, if you reject the concepts of morality or ethics, then that's OK. I disagree, but whatever.
But if you do think some things are more ethical or moral than others, I don't know why you couldn't make the same judgments on particular cultures.
It's happened twice now.
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 10:40:34 AM
:jerk:Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture. If you're making a comment on "human nature," sure ("It could happen again here...if the culture changed someday."). But if culture A promotes gas chambers or slavery or child sacrifice, I think that culture is morally/ethically worse than culture B, which doesn't do those things (and instead prioritizes other things, like improving infant mortality rates, and literacy, and art, for example). I don't know how you could say that those two hypothetical cultures are morally equivalent.OK -- I think the culture that dominated Germany in the 1930s and 40s was evil. I think that culture (distinct from modern day German culture) was evil. If you want to lump all "German" culture together, you can, but I'm not doing that. I'm talking specifically about cultures during specific periods in a specific place. One is better than the other, in my view. One is more evil than the other.Cultures aren't good or evil.You don't think cultures are evil? I, for one, take the chiefs and bold position of thinking Nazi culture was evil.
I would split the hair that Nazism is an ideology that existed within the German culture, just like it exists within present-day American culture.
If you reject morally loaded words like "good" and "evil," OK. But if you can't say that "the culture that gave rise to the holocaust" is any better or worse, morally, than any other culture, then I'd say you have a very interesting world-view.
I don't think any culture is any more or less susceptible to putting Nazis in charge than any other culture is.
Again, if you reject the concepts of morality or ethics, then that's OK. I disagree, but whatever.
But if you do think some things are more ethical or moral than others, I don't know why you couldn't make the same judgments on particular cultures.
It's happened twice now.
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2025, 10:45:09 AM
Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture.
What has only happened once? Autocracy? Imperialism? Ethnic cleansing? To my knowledge, there are many examples of all the bad stuff that happened in Nazi Germany.
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 10:50:24 AM
I'm specifically talking about "putting nazis in charge."Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture.
What has only happened once? Autocracy? Imperialism? Ethnic cleansing? To my knowledge, there are many examples of all the bad stuff that happened in Nazi Germany.
Regardless, has every culture equally promoted/endorsed the "bad stuff" you're talking about? If not, why not?
Post by: CNS on January 28, 2025, 10:54:37 AM
Great example: I have known a guy for 16 years who is a highly educated maintenance engineer. He deals with extremely highly technical equipment. He is 1 semester short of having an actual ME bachelors. About 2 yrs ago, he got comfortable enough in one of our conversations to explain to me why the earth is flat.
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2025, 11:04:20 AM
I'm specifically talking about "putting nazis in charge."Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture.
What has only happened once? Autocracy? Imperialism? Ethnic cleansing? To my knowledge, there are many examples of all the bad stuff that happened in Nazi Germany.
Regardless, has every culture equally promoted/endorsed the "bad stuff" you're talking about? If not, why not?
Oh, so totalitarianism, then? Yes, there are many, many examples.
I have no idea why you're asking dumb questions about why everything isn't exactly the same all of the time.
Post by: LickNeckey on January 28, 2025, 11:10:04 AM
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2025, 11:13:46 AM
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 11:18:05 AM
I'm asking these questions because I think it's insane to say that no cultures are any better or worse than any others, when it seems obvious to me that we have pretty clear evidence that that's not the case.I'm specifically talking about "putting nazis in charge."Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture.
What has only happened once? Autocracy? Imperialism? Ethnic cleansing? To my knowledge, there are many examples of all the bad stuff that happened in Nazi Germany.
Regardless, has every culture equally promoted/endorsed the "bad stuff" you're talking about? If not, why not?
Oh, so totalitarianism, then? Yes, there are many, many examples.
I have no idea why you're asking dumb questions about why everything isn't exactly the same all of the time.
You acknowledging that authoritarianism is "bad" ought to prove the point, given that not every culture has engaged in authoritarianism.
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 11:20:53 AM
I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm the opposite. I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture. Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2025, 11:27:28 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2025, 11:28:24 AM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 28, 2025, 11:35:43 AM
I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm the opposite. I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture. Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.
The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.
Post by: nicname on January 28, 2025, 11:44:32 AM
I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm the opposite. I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture. Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.
The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.
If there wasnt a Weimar Republic there likely never would have been nazis or nazi equivalents. This is correct, yes?
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 11:45:55 AM
Alright. I'm ready to agree to disagree here. But just so I'm sure I understand you, it's your view that there is no moral/ethical difference between the culture of 1930s Germany (antebellum south/child-sacrificing aztecs/etc.) and modern day Sweden? You can't say one culture is any more ethical than the other?I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm the opposite. I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture. Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.
The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 28, 2025, 11:50:35 AM
I'm specifically talking about "putting nazis in charge."Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture.
What has only happened once? Autocracy? Imperialism? Ethnic cleansing? To my knowledge, there are many examples of all the bad stuff that happened in Nazi Germany.
Regardless, has every culture equally promoted/endorsed the "bad stuff" you're talking about? If not, why not?
I mean, could we go ahead and put apartheid South Africa in there or does it have to be specifically antisemitism? (Gypsies, gays, PoC as well!)
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 11:51:18 AM
Yes! Absolutely! Bad culture, imo!I'm specifically talking about "putting nazis in charge."Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture.
What has only happened once? Autocracy? Imperialism? Ethnic cleansing? To my knowledge, there are many examples of all the bad stuff that happened in Nazi Germany.
Regardless, has every culture equally promoted/endorsed the "bad stuff" you're talking about? If not, why not?
I mean, could we go ahead and put apartheid South Africa in there or does it have to be specifically antisemitism? (Gypsies, gays, PoC as well!)
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2025, 11:53:29 AM
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 12:02:17 PM
What is the most ethical culture?Not sure. But the point is that I can tell you which cultures which I think are pretty clearly not the most ethical.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2025, 12:03:19 PM
What is the most ethical culture?Not sure. But the point is that I can tell you which cultures which I think are pretty clearly not the most ethical.
Well, at least based on the ethics of your own culture
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 28, 2025, 12:15:45 PM
Alright. I'm ready to agree to disagree here. But just so I'm sure I understand you, it's your view that there is no moral/ethical difference between the culture of 1930s Germany (antebellum south/child-sacrificing aztecs/etc.) and modern day Sweden? You can't say one culture is any more ethical than the other?I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm the opposite. I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture. Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.
The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.
I just think an ideology is different than a culture. 1980s Germany was very different than 1940s Germany, but the people are the same, and it's ridiculous to me to claim they adopted a completely different culture.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 28, 2025, 12:17:33 PM
Post by: mocat on January 28, 2025, 02:11:06 PM
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2025, 02:24:10 PM
Yeah, I agree ideologies are different than cultures. But cultures where bad ideologies can grow, flourish, and be implemented strike me as "bad" (or at least ethically "worse") than other cultures where the ideology didn't get adopted. I think the proof is kind of in the pudding here.Alright. I'm ready to agree to disagree here. But just so I'm sure I understand you, it's your view that there is no moral/ethical difference between the culture of 1930s Germany (antebellum south/child-sacrificing aztecs/etc.) and modern day Sweden? You can't say one culture is any more ethical than the other?I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm the opposite. I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture. Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.
The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.
I just think an ideology is different than a culture. 1980s Germany was very different than 1940s Germany, but the people are the same, and it's ridiculous to me to claim they adopted a completely different culture.
Post by: mocat on January 28, 2025, 02:37:27 PM
Post by: nicname on January 28, 2025, 02:42:30 PM
German culture is just really good at following orders. Nobody jaywalks, they don't even have turnstiles on the subway because it's so frowned upon to board without a ticket. Susceptible to the "just following orders" Nuremberg defense utilized by mid level nazi management
Also Japan.
Post by: mocat on January 28, 2025, 03:08:15 PM
remember this quote from the the united states attorney general?
Quote
“We need to take away children,” Mr. Sessions told the prosecutors, according to participants’ notes. One added in shorthand: “If care about kids, don’t bring them in. Won’t give amnesty to people with kids.”
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2025, 03:39:16 PM
that said, i imagine every culture is susceptible to fascism if the people who stand to benefit from it feel that it's justified.Totally agree, and I just change fascism to authoritarianism. I personally hate fascism way more than I hate communism but honestly, I guess most consistently I would say that I hate authoritarianism.
remember this quote from the the united states attorney general?Quote“We need to take away children,” Mr. Sessions told the prosecutors, according to participants’ notes. One added in shorthand: “If care about kids, don’t bring them in. Won’t give amnesty to people with kids.”
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 29, 2025, 07:25:11 PM
What a piece of crap.
Post by: Pete on January 29, 2025, 07:40:56 PM
Post by: Pete on January 29, 2025, 07:41:42 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 29, 2025, 07:53:35 PM
That is unless your reason for being anti-abortion has nothing to do with life or death and it’s about controlling other people
we call it religion pete
Post by: michigancat on January 29, 2025, 08:09:17 PM
Pro life people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide. If you believe that abortion is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stop abortion then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whateverThat makes this guy's Nazi salute kind of ironic!
Post by: Pete on January 29, 2025, 08:11:34 PM
Oh, he’s totally about social control as means to preserving the species or whatever the eff. I just don’t think that he thinks he’s a Nazi and I don’t think he wants to be a Nazi. He wants to be something else that to many people would seem pretty rough ridin' undesirable.Pro life people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide. If you believe that abortion is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stop abortion then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whateverThat makes this guy's Nazi salute kind of ironic!
Post by: Pete on January 29, 2025, 08:12:42 PM
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/DFu7j1d1AQbaE/giphy.gif)That is unless your reason for being anti-abortion has nothing to do with life or death and it’s about controlling other people
we call it religion pete
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 30, 2025, 12:44:14 AM
Oh, he’s totally about social control as means to preserving the species or whatever the eff. I just don’t think that he thinks he’s a Nazi and I don’t think he wants to be a Nazi. He wants to be something else that to many people would seem pretty rough ridin' undesirable.Pro life people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide. If you believe that abortion is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stop abortion then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whateverThat makes this guy's Nazi salute kind of ironic!
The German Nazis wouldn't have considered themselves to be Nazis the way we think of them today. The connotation is pretty negative.
Post by: DQ12 on January 30, 2025, 09:38:04 AM
You can draw parallels between every perceived injustice and the lack of "crazy crap" we see (which is virtually none, outside of a week or two in 2020). In my quoted example above, there were plenty of genuine abolitionists in the antebellum US who weren't going the John Brown route. Plenty of genuine civil rights advocates and anti-vietnam war people who still held down jobs and weren't firebombing or marching every single weekend and led pretty normal day-to-day lives. "Doing crazy crap to stop it" is just not typically how people operate in the face of controversial laws/issues they deem unjust. Murdering George Tiller was pretty crazy crap, imo -- and (aside from the discrete murder, which (to be clear) I view as morally unjustified) I think that was counterproductive to the anti-abortion cause.Pro lifeAbolitionist people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide. If you believe thatabortionslavery is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stopabortionslavery then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whatever
If you're advocating for some kind of watered-down "crazy crap," like marching in the streets or protests, the March for Life in Washington DC was last weekend. Abortion clinics ubiquitously have protestors outside. If that's not what you're talking about either, then I don't really know what specifically you mean by "crazy crap."
As for my views, I recognize it as a profound injustice and give money to causes that attempt to reduce it. For the record, I think the Anglican cleric's (?) gesture in the video is idiotic. I hate it.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 30, 2025, 09:52:17 AM
Post by: DQ12 on January 30, 2025, 10:48:00 AM
Comparing abortion to slavery probably isn't the most sensical response to a pro-life clergyman letting us know he's a Nazi.Do you know how analogies work?
You can genuinely oppose grave injustices without doing "crazy crap."
Post by: catastrophe on January 30, 2025, 10:56:09 AM
Well said. I don’t think Pete is actually advocating for more Tiller murders so I’ll chalk it up to a poor attempt to make a watered down point.You can draw parallels between every perceived injustice and the lack of "crazy crap" we see (which is virtually none, outside of a week or two in 2020). In my quoted example above, there were plenty of genuine abolitionists in the antebellum US who weren't going the John Brown route. Plenty of genuine civil rights advocates and anti-vietnam war people who still held down jobs and weren't firebombing or marching every single weekend and led pretty normal day-to-day lives. "Doing crazy crap to stop it" is just not typically how people operate in the face of controversial laws/issues they deem unjust. Murdering George Tiller was pretty crazy crap, imo -- and (aside from the discrete murder, which (to be clear) I view as morally unjustified) I think that was counterproductive to the anti-abortion cause.Pro lifeAbolitionist people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide. If you believe thatabortionslavery is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stopabortionslavery then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whatever
If you're advocating for some kind of watered-down "crazy crap," like marching in the streets or protests, the March for Life in Washington DC was last weekend. Abortion clinics ubiquitously have protestors outside. If that's not what you're talking about either, then I don't really know what specifically you mean by "crazy crap."
As for my views, I recognize it as a profound injustice and give money to causes that attempt to reduce it. For the record, I think the Anglican cleric's (?) gesture in the video is idiotic. I hate it.
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 12:31:24 PM
I don’t understand how those people can just go about their lives while all these murders are happening. Just donating to some causes that help stop murders on that scale seems woefully insufficient.
I do not agree with them that abortion is murder. If I did, it is my belief that I would be very immoral for not doing a great deal to stop those murders. I think it’s insufficient to just walk in a parade or write a check however I must restate that I disagree that it is murder. I do not think it is murder
Post by: DQ12 on January 30, 2025, 12:40:39 PM
I think that there are people who think that abortion is identical to just murdering random sentient humans on the street. Those people often talk in terms of saying that abortion is “murder.”OK. What would you do?
I don’t understand how those people can just go about their lives while all these murders are happening. Just donating to some causes that help stop murders on that scale seems willfully insufficient.
I do not agree with them that abortion is murder. If I did, it is my belief that I would be very immoral for not doing a great deal to stop those murders. I think it’s insufficient to just walk in a parade or write a check however I must restate that I disagree that it is murder. I do not think it is murder
Post by: star seed 7 on January 30, 2025, 12:42:43 PM
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 01:04:06 PM
I don’t know. It depends upon the scale of the murders. What’s the scale of the alleged murders being done here? probably require something like joining the French resistance, wouldn’t it?I think that there are people who think that abortion is identical to just murdering random sentient humans on the street. Those people often talk in terms of saying that abortion is “murder.”OK. What would you do?
I don’t understand how those people can just go about their lives while all these murders are happening. Just donating to some causes that help stop murders on that scale seems willfully insufficient.
I do not agree with them that abortion is murder. If I did, it is my belief that I would be very immoral for not doing a great deal to stop those murders. I think it’s insufficient to just walk in a parade or write a check however I must restate that I disagree that it is murder. I do not think it is murder
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 01:04:46 PM
I used to agree with Pete on this but I'm directly in the dlew camp nowHow do you mean? You do think it’s murder or you don’t think it’s murder. For the record I do not think it’s murder.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 30, 2025, 01:07:13 PM
I used to agree with Pete on this but I'm directly in the dlew camp nowHow do you mean? You do think it’s murder or you don’t think it’s murder. For the record I do not think it’s murder.
The crazy crap part. I agree with you on abortion.
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 01:09:04 PM
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 01:09:36 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 30, 2025, 01:13:00 PM
And for the purpose of this analogy being forced to tour the concentration camps would be analogous to waking up one day to the realization that huh, I guess they sure did do a fascism after all. Because power has been completely consolidated and we went ahead and got rid of elections and death is literally the only thing stopping these guys from doing whatever tf they want.
But I think maybe what Pete was getting at was “yes, I definitely want to avoid that outcome, but I don’t want to have to be an active participant in operation Valkyrie to achieve that end. So like, yeah, what is the average citizen to do? Marching in a parade or making a donation of $19 a month - that’s just 63¢ a day - is little more than a fart in the wind.
Last time, the consolation was “ok but at the end of the day the guard rails DID hold” and this time on his first day in office it’s like “what’s with all these guard rails?? lmao High time we got rid of all these dadgum guard rails! Hahaaa”
Post by: mocat on January 30, 2025, 01:16:52 PM
It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?
yes and i think history has proven that to be the case.
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 01:17:44 PM
Post by: CNS on January 30, 2025, 01:18:03 PM
What would we have expected of someone who lived across the street from Auschwitz?
Or who's friend, brother, and chick you used to date in college all worked at Auschwitz...
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 01:19:59 PM
Post by: mocat on January 30, 2025, 01:21:17 PM
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 01:22:54 PM
the genocide in gaza is maybe a decent comparison. there are civilians being murdered by the IDF with direct and indirect permission & aide from the united states government. what else can we do besides protest and vote?It’s a fair question. I mean at some point the atrocities get so big that it would be unconscionable to go about our daily lives without doing something drastic like signing up for a militia or being like that tiller guy or something like that.
Post by: mocat on January 30, 2025, 01:23:06 PM
What would we have expected of someone who lived across the street from Auschwitz?
Or who's friend, brother, and chick you used to date in college all worked at Auschwitz...
not a good comparison because those people presumably would be afraid to speak up for fear of being auschwitz'd themselves. anyone worried about abortion is at no risk of themselves being aborted.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 30, 2025, 01:23:51 PM
Yeah, I mean it’s a fascinating implication of arguing for equivalence between abortion and run-of-the-mill murder
For certain European citizens I don’t believe the procedure was elective
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 01:25:08 PM
I suppose that’s more of the French resistance example of something that one could doWhat would we have expected of someone who lived across the street from Auschwitz?
Or who's friend, brother, and chick you used to date in college all worked at Auschwitz...
not a good comparison because those people presumably would be afraid to speak up for fear of being auschwitz'd themselves. anyone worried about abortion is at no risk of themselves being aborted.
Post by: michigancat on January 30, 2025, 01:59:38 PM
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2025, 02:06:56 PM
I thought what was most shocking about the Pro Life leader doing a Nazi salute was the absolute glee it garnered from the Pro-Life crowd. They weren't just applauding the speech, they clearly reacted to the Nazi salute. Just disgusting and honestly scary.I think they would probably say that they do not think it’s a Nazi salute, and that they were mocking those who did think it was a Nazi salute. But still seemed really inappropriate in either case. It limited the effectiveness of their message, but I suppose they might say they don’t care about communicating to those who do not share their beliefs in total.
Post by: CNS on January 30, 2025, 02:36:33 PM
I thought what was most shocking about the Pro Life leader doing a Nazi salute was the absolute glee it garnered from the Pro-Life crowd. They weren't just applauding the speech, they clearly reacted to the Nazi salute. Just disgusting and honestly scary.I think they would probably say that they do not think it’s a Nazi salute, and that they were mocking those who did think it was a Nazi salute..
This is a huge part of the maga problem. So many ppl are willing to let so much go just to troll others.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 30, 2025, 02:48:48 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 30, 2025, 03:12:07 PM
Yeah, if they all start saluting at all of their rallies like they were chanting "let's go Brandon," they are still all acting like Nazis at their rallies. I don't think excusing Nazi symbolism is very far removed from excusing Nazi behavior.
Jailing political dissidents to own the libs
Post by: Kat Kid on January 30, 2025, 03:17:12 PM
What would we have expected of someone who lived across the street from Auschwitz?
I need to watch Zone of interest.
That said, we already have lots of evidence that people almost universally just go on about their lives in the face of evil, even if they are pretty directly participating in it.
I don’t think you are “wrong” in that we should try to expect more of ourselves, but I think dlew brings up good points about how humans will behave even if they think the society is engaged in morally reprehensible conduct.
I think given how divergent and just generally weird most American’s politics are you will for sure get some political violence due to people feeling called to right a moral wrong, but it will often look more like Dylan Roof, or the comet ping pong pizza guy or Life is Burger cyber truck guy than something coherent.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 30, 2025, 03:29:25 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 30, 2025, 03:45:49 PM
You think Pete is going to assemble a killdozer? Not rough ridin' likely
Too busy fishin n golfin!
Post by: DQ12 on January 30, 2025, 04:23:40 PM
Yeah I mean, I think it was a tongue in cheek, stick it to the libs gag. I think it was completely inappropriate and I hated it. I agree that it wholly undermined the message (I assume) he was getting at. I was relieved when I found out he wasn't a Catholic priest. If he was, I'd have written to his bishop.I thought what was most shocking about the Pro Life leader doing a Nazi salute was the absolute glee it garnered from the Pro-Life crowd. They weren't just applauding the speech, they clearly reacted to the Nazi salute. Just disgusting and honestly scary.I think they would probably say that they do not think it’s a Nazi salute, and that they were mocking those who did think it was a Nazi salute. But still seemed really inappropriate in either case. It limited the effectiveness of their message, but I suppose they might say they don’t care about communicating to those who do not share their beliefs in total.
Yeah, I mean it’s a fascinating implication of arguing for equivalence between abortion and run-of-the-mill murderAt the risk of further dovetailing this thread, I can maybe distill where we're missing each other, and I actually think a lot of it is semantics. "Murder" can be kind of a broad term. The definition of murder I'm operating on is something like "the unjustified, intentional killing of another human being." You can spar with that definition if you want, but as far as where we're missing each other, I do recognize recognize there's many important distinctions between (a) killing a stranger on the street and (b) participating in an abortion, even though both (imo) are "murder" (under my definition, above). Principally, I think the culpability of abortion participants and street murderers (using your example) are different because (ostensibly) abortion participants have a rational belief that what they're doing is not wrong. Society largely tells them it's not wrong. Our street murderers can't claim either of those things.
Even though i think it's a profound wrong, I recognize that reasonable minds (e.g., us, here!) can disagree on the wrongness of intentionally killing a human being in the womb. I think there are some solid pro-abortion rights arguments -- I don't find them convincing, but I can see how someone, rationally could. So, even if I think they're functionally equivalent, I don't think the culpability of people participating in an abortion is the same as our street murderer. Hence, my response to the two are (justifiably, imo) different.
In any event, even if there wasn't a reason based on moral distinctions for treating the two murders differently (I think there is) there are tons of reasons other than "disingenuous belief" that people may not do "crazy crap" in response to stopping mass murder (e.g. fear, security, apathy, hopelessness, strategic).
It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?I would think so, yes.
Post by: mocat on January 30, 2025, 05:21:12 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 30, 2025, 05:23:45 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 30, 2025, 06:26:49 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 30, 2025, 06:29:54 PM
Post by: mocat on January 30, 2025, 06:42:53 PM
Cancel culture smdhI'm sure it will end up being very lucrative for him
Post by: michigancat on January 30, 2025, 06:47:32 PM
Cancel culture smdhI'm sure it will end up being very lucrative for him
100%
Post by: wetwillie on January 30, 2025, 07:11:15 PM
Catholicism gone woke
rough ridin' the choir boys gets you reassigned but the nazi salute is where the line gets drawn
Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2025, 10:05:55 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2025, 10:08:17 PM
maybe because you didn't gather enough berries turok you rough ridin' downgrade
pork is evil
yeah, it makes us have worms in our poop. that's god telling you not to eat it moron.
a she bear mauled my 7 sons to death
well maybe don't have them make fun of the bald guy Elisha, Sheila this isn't your first day
Post by: michigancat on January 30, 2025, 10:08:44 PM
https://x.com/kenklippenstein/status/1885161800498376740?s=19
Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2025, 10:12:49 PM
the suns extra hot today!
maybe because you didn't gather enough berries turok you rough ridin' downgrade
pork is evil
yeah, it makes us have worms in our poop. that's god telling you not to eat it moron.
a she bear mauled my 7 sons to death
well maybe don't have them make fun of the bald guy Elisha, Sheila this isn't your first day
correction. it was two she bears.
Quote
23 He went up from there to Bethel, and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” 24 And he turned around, and when he saw them, che cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys. 25 From there he went on to dMount Carmel, and from there he returned eto Samaria.
Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2025, 10:14:21 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2025, 10:22:33 PM
(https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/It-Qf8rImgFwpluWbgqtuJ93U0o=/fit-in/480x254/top/filters:format_auto():upscale()/2020/07/30/071/n/45101125/bfefc0011f36f3c7_14.gif)
Post by: catastrophe on January 31, 2025, 12:29:03 AM
here's the thing about organized religion: nothing good in its history has ever come of it EXCEPT controlling the population and making them adhere to whatever thing is the thing. BUT that's actually good sometimes because...have you seen the population? they need some controlling. they're going to have to self regulate now because we in power don't have the bandwith to just make them all the time (and a lot of the time it's for THEIR OWN GOOD (imo)). it's natural evolution that religion/facsism/populism/etc. takes root. tale as literally old as time.Monks basically invented beer so I’m calling bullshit
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2025, 07:41:06 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 31, 2025, 07:47:33 AM
42 fuckin' kills between 2 she bears must have been a site. that's 21 a piece if they didn't team up on any
Fuckers were probably playing Red Rover and got sent those she bears right over.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 31, 2025, 07:49:48 AM
here's the thing about organized religion: nothing good in its history has ever come of it EXCEPT controlling the population and making them adhere to whatever thing is the thing. BUT that's actually good sometimes because...have you seen the population? they need some controlling. they're going to have to self regulate now because we in power don't have the bandwith to just make them all the time (and a lot of the time it's for THEIR OWN GOOD (imo)). it's natural evolution that religion/facsism/populism/etc. takes root. tale as literally old as time.
Yeah, like imagine if most people on America followed a religion that's all about loving your neighbor and caring for others. We probably wouldn't have even needed to ask those people to wear masks and social distance during COVID.
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2025, 08:27:43 AM
the suns extra hot today!Do circumcision next
maybe because you didn't gather enough berries turok you rough ridin' downgrade
pork is evil
yeah, it makes us have worms in our poop. that's god telling you not to eat it moron.
a she bear mauled my 7 sons to death
well maybe don't have them make fun of the bald guy Elisha, Sheila this isn't your first day
Post by: Institutional Control on January 31, 2025, 09:32:33 AM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1885102414526652561
Post by: TheHamburglar on January 31, 2025, 10:35:56 AM
Cancel culture smdhI'm sure it will end up being very lucrative for him
I have a few people in my life that get so angry when I say the best thing to ever happen to Riley Gaines was not going 0.01 seconds faster.
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2025, 10:54:24 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: CHONGS on January 31, 2025, 11:15:22 AM
Post by: Justwin on January 31, 2025, 11:56:03 AM
It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?
It makes voting very easy.
Post by: catastrophe on January 31, 2025, 02:27:46 PM
While this is obviously true for a lot of people, I personally believe the best way to reduce abortions is by lowering the number of unwanted pregnancies. Make contraceptives (male and female) cheap and widely available for starters.It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?
It makes voting very easy.
With the war on drugs as probably the best example, we’ve got pretty compelling evidence that making something illegal is very unlikely to eliminate the unwanted behavior so long as demand remains high.
So I find it totally conceivable that someone can consider many abortions on the level of murder while being realistic enough to appreciate that banning it won’t solve the problem you’re trying to fix.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 31, 2025, 02:47:54 PM
Post by: Cire on January 31, 2025, 03:01:36 PM
Post by: Justwin on January 31, 2025, 03:14:42 PM
While this is obviously true for a lot of people, I personally believe the best way to reduce abortions is by lowering the number of unwanted pregnancies. Make contraceptives (male and female) cheap and widely available for starters.It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?
It makes voting very easy.
With the war on drugs as probably the best example, we’ve got pretty compelling evidence that making something illegal is very unlikely to eliminate the unwanted behavior so long as demand remains high.
So I find it totally conceivable that someone can consider many abortions on the level of murder while being realistic enough to appreciate that banning it won’t solve the problem you’re trying to fix.
I think murder and robbery are wrong and should be illegal. Does that completely eliminate them? Or course not. We're dealing with humans here. But that doesn't mean I think they should be legalized. Take what you're saying to its logical conclusion about everything that is illegal.
The steps you mention are not mutually exclusive of making something illegal, so it shouldn't be used as an argument for keeping abortion legal.
Post by: DQ12 on January 31, 2025, 03:19:58 PM
Yeah, what's interesting though is that Sweden has a higher abortion rate than the US. I'm not an expert on Sweden, but I would guess that contraception is pretty cheap and available there.While this is obviously true for a lot of people, I personally believe the best way to reduce abortions is by lowering the number of unwanted pregnancies. Make contraceptives (male and female) cheap and widely available for starters.It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?
It makes voting very easy.
Post by: mocat on January 31, 2025, 03:23:44 PM
It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?
It makes voting very easy.
especially if both voting options have no problem funding genocides
Post by: DQ12 on January 31, 2025, 03:26:13 PM
Yeah, abortions increased after Roe got repealed, so good job voting for that.Do you think the public voted on Dobbs? :confused:
Do you think abortions increased because Roe got overturned? :confused:
Post by: Kat Kid on January 31, 2025, 03:29:31 PM
Yeah, abortions increased after Roe got repealed, so good job voting for that.Do you think the public voted on Dobbs? :confused:
Do you think abortions increased because Roe got overturned? :confused:
I was told the presidential election of Donald Trump was a referendum on who should be able to appoint a new Supreme Court justice. I guess, people may not have taken seriously the idea that Roe would get overturned but it wasn't that hard to see.
Post by: Justwin on January 31, 2025, 03:30:34 PM
Yeah, abortions increased after Roe got repealed, so good job voting for that.
That data comes from before Florida's ban went into place and the ballot initiative failed there in November. The increase in abortions is likely due to increased use of mifepristone and the shield laws some states have passed for telehealth providers. With the new administration, we will see how those laws fare and there is always the chance the Supreme Court could rule differently than they have on this.
Having any kind of state regulation of abortion required the striking down of Roe and regardless it was good policy to leave abortion decisions up to states.
Post by: DQ12 on January 31, 2025, 03:34:20 PM
Phrasing was just weird. Anyway, I think the implied conclusion is absurd anyway.Yeah, abortions increased after Roe got repealed, so good job voting for that.Do you think the public voted on Dobbs? :confused:
Do you think abortions increased because Roe got overturned? :confused:
I was told the presidential election of Donald Trump was a referendum on who should be able to appoint a new Supreme Court justice. I guess, people may not have taken seriously the idea that Roe would get overturned but it wasn't that hard to see.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 31, 2025, 04:05:01 PM
here's the thing about organized religion: nothing good in its history has ever come of it EXCEPT controlling the population and making them adhere to whatever thing is the thing. BUT that's actually good sometimes because...have you seen the population? they need some controlling. they're going to have to self regulate now because we in power don't have the bandwith to just make them all the time (and a lot of the time it's for THEIR OWN GOOD (imo)). it's natural evolution that religion/facsism/populism/etc. takes root. tale as literally old as time.Monks basically invented beer so I’m calling bullshit
I don't buy that even for a second. Just a rumor those pedders started
Post by: catastrophe on January 31, 2025, 04:09:05 PM
They’re not mutually exclusive, but you also rarely see a single group lobbying for both at the same time.While this is obviously true for a lot of people, I personally believe the best way to reduce abortions is by lowering the number of unwanted pregnancies. Make contraceptives (male and female) cheap and widely available for starters.It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?
It makes voting very easy.
With the war on drugs as probably the best example, we’ve got pretty compelling evidence that making something illegal is very unlikely to eliminate the unwanted behavior so long as demand remains high.
So I find it totally conceivable that someone can consider many abortions on the level of murder while being realistic enough to appreciate that banning it won’t solve the problem you’re trying to fix.
I think murder and robbery are wrong and should be illegal. Does that completely eliminate them? Or course not. We're dealing with humans here. But that doesn't mean I think they should be legalized. Take what you're saying to its logical conclusion about everything that is illegal.
The steps you mention are not mutually exclusive of making something illegal, so it shouldn't be used as an argument for keeping abortion legal.
Abortion is also different than something like robbery and other murder because there is a lot of debate over what types of abortion should be illegal. Practically no one is calling for a total abortion ban; the conversation has really just been about where to draw the line, which will continue to be a discussion ad nauseum.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 31, 2025, 04:17:52 PM
Yeah, what's interesting though is that Sweden has a higher abortion rate than the US. I'm not an expert on Sweden, but I would guess that contraception is pretty cheap and available there.While this is obviously true for a lot of people, I personally believe the best way to reduce abortions is by lowering the number of unwanted pregnancies. Make contraceptives (male and female) cheap and widely available for starters.It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?
It makes voting very easy.
The swedes are as a whole a much happier society than us.
Post by: CNS on January 31, 2025, 05:27:51 PM
here's the thing about organized religion: nothing good in its history has ever come of it EXCEPT controlling the population and making them adhere to whatever thing is the thing. BUT that's actually good sometimes because...have you seen the population? they need some controlling. they're going to have to self regulate now because we in power don't have the bandwith to just make them all the time (and a lot of the time it's for THEIR OWN GOOD (imo)). it's natural evolution that religion/facsism/populism/etc. takes root. tale as literally old as time.Monks basically invented beer so I’m calling bullshit
I don't buy that even for a second. Just a rumor those pedders started
Christianity stole a lot of things. Took a bunch of the holiday basics from pagans, for example. Why not beer too?
Post by: CNS on January 31, 2025, 05:29:31 PM
Same with being against wind and solar energy?
It almost seems like mindless politics rather than pragmatism.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 31, 2025, 05:32:08 PM
Yeah, abortions increased after Roe got repealed, so good job voting for that.Do you think the public voted on Dobbs? :confused:
Do you think abortions increased because Roe got overturned? :confused:
I do think the public voted on Dobbs when they voted for Trump.
The second question is a little bit trickier because abortion started to trend up during Trump's presidency after consistently trending down since the original Roe v Wade decision. I think it makes sense that the more restrictive and oppressive the government is, and the harder it is for a young family to afford a comfortable lifestyle, the less people are going to want children.
Post by: DQ12 on January 31, 2025, 05:42:49 PM
Yeah, I think it was wider access to the abortion pills.Yeah, abortions increased after Roe got repealed, so good job voting for that.Do you think the public voted on Dobbs? :confused:
Do you think abortions increased because Roe got overturned? :confused:
I do think the public voted on Dobbs when they voted for Trump.
The second question is a little bit trickier because abortion started to trend up during Trump's presidency after consistently trending down since the original Roe v Wade decision. I think it makes sense that the more restrictive and oppressive the government is, and the harder it is for a young family to afford a comfortable lifestyle, the less people are going to want children.
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2025, 05:55:43 PM
Post by: DQ12 on January 31, 2025, 06:22:55 PM
You can get an abortion in a pill now?Yep. Up to 10 weeks.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 31, 2025, 06:51:00 PM
You can get an abortion in a pill now?Yep. Up to 10 weeks.
That doesn't seem very extreme.
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2025, 06:59:19 PM
Post by: nicname on January 31, 2025, 07:02:16 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 31, 2025, 07:33:47 PM
Yeah, what's interesting though is that Sweden has a higher abortion rate than the US. I'm not an expert on Sweden, but I would guess that contraception is pretty cheap and available there.While this is obviously true for a lot of people, I personally believe the best way to reduce abortions is by lowering the number of unwanted pregnancies. Make contraceptives (male and female) cheap and widely available for starters.It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?
It makes voting very easy.
The swedes are as a whole a much happier society than us.
If I lived in Sweden I’d be horny as crap 24/7 too.
Post by: DQ12 on January 31, 2025, 07:58:36 PM
I disagree!You can get an abortion in a pill now?Yep. Up to 10 weeks.
That doesn't seem very extreme.
Look at the resident atheists dragging around behind them the dead body of the God they don’t believe in.It’s like /r/atheism circa 2009 up in here.
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2025, 08:37:03 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2025, 08:37:57 PM
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Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2025, 08:38:42 PM
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Post by: DQ12 on January 31, 2025, 10:11:43 PM
Elon Musk thread is a lmao place to debate abortion/contraception/etc but folks I’m here for it. I’m a Missouri Synod Lutheran btw as baseblineAnything goes in the MUSKSPHERE.
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 06:49:09 AM
Elon Musk thread is a lmao place to debate abortion/contraception/etc but folks I’m here for it. I’m a Missouri Synod Lutheran btw as baseblineThey don’t allow women to be pastors.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 01, 2025, 11:16:05 AM
I’m pro all free access to contraception. My kids are little but I want them to have access without having to talk to me
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Only absolute freaks disagree with this
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2025, 01:52:27 PM
https://x.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/1885734974298435943
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 01:57:56 PM
Yeah this is mumped upi’m not bothered by that in the least. What am I missing?
https://x.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/1885734974298435943
Post by: Spracne on February 01, 2025, 02:08:41 PM
Yeah this is mumped upi’m not bothered by that in the least. What am I missing?
https://x.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/1885734974298435943
It's a public agency restricting its communications about an emergent situation to a single, privately owned/operated platform (which just so happens to be owned by that Elon Musk fellow).
Post by: wetwillie on February 01, 2025, 02:10:28 PM
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:18:51 PM
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:19:32 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 01, 2025, 02:24:39 PM
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:25:15 PM
Do you have to have a registered account to view twitter?I just tested it in private mode on my phone and it worked with no account. I didn’t login or anything.
Post by: wetwillie on February 01, 2025, 02:26:07 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 01, 2025, 02:26:55 PM
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:27:35 PM
Quote
While X (formerly Twitter) has significantly limited access to its content for users without an account, there are still some methods to view certain content without signing up:
1. **Google Search**: You can sometimes find public tweets through Google by using specific search queries. Typing "site:x.com" followed by keywords or usernames can occasionally yield results. However, this is not reliable for real-time or comprehensive content access.[](https://www.wikihow.com/View-Twitter-Without-an-Account)
2. **Embedded Tweets**: If tweets are embedded in external websites like news articles or blogs, you can view them without an X account. This method only works for individual tweets shared externally, not for browsing profiles or threads.[](https://challix.com/blogs/guides/can-you-access-x-without-an-account)
3. **Third-Party Tools**: Some third-party applications and websites like Nitter, when available, allow you to view X content without an account. These tools offer limited functionality and might not always be up to date or fully functional due to X's policies.[](https://thinglabs.io/can-you-access-x-without-an-account)[](https://easytweetdeleter.com/blog/search-twitter-x-without-account-secret-methods-you-didnt-know-before/)
4. **The Wayback Machine**: This internet archive can sometimes display saved versions of X profiles and tweets, providing a way to view historical content. However, it's not real-time and depends on when the content was last archived.[](https://thinglabs.io/can-you-access-x-without-an-account)
5. **X Explore Page**: Although accessing the Explore page directly now generally requires an account, some aspects of what's trending might still be visible to non-users, but interaction or detailed exploration is limited.[](https://tweetdelete.net/resources/view-twitter-without-account-3-solutions-that-still-work/)
Keep in mind, these methods come with limitations:
- You can't interact with content (like, retweet, reply).
- Access to comments, threads, and private accounts is restricted.
- The content you can view is often not real-time or comprehensive.
For full functionality and access to all features including comments and threads, creating an account on X is necessary. However, for those looking to view specific content without an account, these workarounds offer partial solutions.
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:28:14 PM
Why ONLY Twitter? I agree that only e-mail isn't optimal. Why not ONLY Facebook?I think Twitter is a lot faster and easier to use than Facebook but philosophically I don’t think there’s much difference between those two choices.
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:28:57 PM
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:30:07 PM
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:30:47 PM
Post by: Trim on February 01, 2025, 02:31:16 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 01, 2025, 02:33:11 PM
If you go to NTSB’s twitter without an account, the tweets aren’t in chronological order at all. The first 10 or so includes one from 2019. No way to get the latest news without being logged in with an account.
Well that's useless
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:36:57 PM
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:39:38 PM
Next time you guys say that something’s “mumped up” we are going to be thinking “here they go again with their outrage about failure to maintain email distribution lists…”
Honestly, calling this situation mumped up is more mumped up than the situation you’re accusing of being mumped up .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 01, 2025, 02:40:52 PM
Do you have to have a registered account to view twitter?
You can find individual tweets, but it's not all that easy. And you can't see replies, so you can't really follow threads.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 01, 2025, 02:46:42 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 01, 2025, 02:53:53 PM
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:54:59 PM
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 02:56:12 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 01, 2025, 02:58:14 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 01, 2025, 03:23:43 PM
Post by: CNS on February 01, 2025, 03:28:24 PM
Post by: Justwin on February 01, 2025, 03:28:38 PM
I think a government entity privatizing its communications for the first time ever is probably not something to simply shrug off. Especially given the conflict of interest with Musk.
It's not ideal nor perfect, but it's better than the information only going out to a privileged email list.
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2025, 03:35:53 PM
I think a government entity privatizing its communications for the first time ever is probably not something to simply shrug off. Especially given the conflict of interest with Musk.
It's not ideal nor perfect, but it's better than the information only going out to a privileged email list.
It looks like anyone could sign up for the list
https://www.ntsb.gov/Pages/ListSubscriptionPage.aspx
Regardless there is no reason announcements couldn't be on multiple platforms, other than to direct traffic and money to Elon Musk.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 01, 2025, 03:39:09 PM
Post by: Justwin on February 01, 2025, 03:40:12 PM
I think a government entity privatizing its communications for the first time ever is probably not something to simply shrug off. Especially given the conflict of interest with Musk.
It's not ideal nor perfect, but it's better than the information only going out to a privileged email list.
It looks like anyone could sign up for the list
https://www.ntsb.gov/Pages/ListSubscriptionPage.aspx
But there is no reason announcements couldn't be on multiple platforms, other than to direct traffic and money to Elon Musk.
If that is the case, I retract the word privileged. I still think posting on Twitter is better than an email list somebody has to sign up for. I realize that you need to sign up for Twitter in order for it to be truly functional, but there are a lot of other uses for Twitter and a lot of people have already signed up for Twitter.
However, there is no reason to not post it on multiple platforms.
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2025, 03:44:10 PM
However, there is no reason to not post it on multiple platforms.
oh there's definitely a reason
Post by: Spracne on February 01, 2025, 04:14:48 PM
I think Michigancat and Spracne are guilty of the boy who cried “mumped up” on this one.
You asked what the angle was. I gave you the angle. Now get back to slowly transforming into a Rogan bro.
Post by: Spracne on February 01, 2025, 04:17:44 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2025, 04:44:51 PM
Sounds like they were previously restricting it to an email distribution list, and everybody had to have an email account. Now you could walk into a computer at the library and see it online for free, couldn’t you? Or just pull up your phone and go to the ntsb on x.com. I just did that in private mode on safari on my phone and it worked just fine.
also I don't expect facts to get in the way of your elon defense, but they definitely posted updates on press conferences on twitter before
https://x.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/1869863095881146553
Post by: star seed 7 on February 01, 2025, 04:50:03 PM
Sounds like they were previously restricting it to an email distribution list, and everybody had to have an email account. Now you could walk into a computer at the library and see it online for free, couldn’t you? Or just pull up your phone and go to the ntsb on x.com. I just did that in private mode on safari on my phone and it worked just fine.
also I don't expect facts to get in the way of your elon defense, but they definitely posted updates on press conferences on twitter before
https://x.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/1869863095881146553
Look at that trash engagement though
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 04:59:37 PM
I bet you have listened to more Rogan episodes than me! I’ve listened to exactly one. One episode in my entire life.I think Michigancat and Spracne are guilty of the boy who cried “mumped up” on this one.
You asked what the angle was. I gave you the angle. Now get back to slowly transforming into a Rogan bro.
I haven’t even listened to his Elon episode.
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 05:01:03 PM
See! Not mumped up after all!Sounds like they were previously restricting it to an email distribution list, and everybody had to have an email account. Now you could walk into a computer at the library and see it online for free, couldn’t you? Or just pull up your phone and go to the ntsb on x.com. I just did that in private mode on safari on my phone and it worked just fine.
also I don't expect facts to get in the way of your elon defense, but they definitely posted updates on press conferences on twitter before
https://x.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/1869863095881146553
Post by: wetwillie on February 01, 2025, 05:09:56 PM
I think a government entity privatizing its communications for the first time ever is probably not something to simply shrug off. Especially given the conflict of interest with Musk.
I can't tell if you guys are trolling but they just said they are posting the date and time of the press briefings on their X account instead of blasting out emails. The same info is on their publically available website
https://www.ntsb.gov/Pages/home.aspx (https://www.ntsb.gov/Pages/home.aspx)
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 05:20:46 PM
That’s NOT mumped up. This one has been a mumped up false alarm (unlike the late breaking treasury payments thing, which does indeed appear to be mumped up).I think a government entity privatizing its communications for the first time ever is probably not something to simply shrug off. Especially given the conflict of interest with Musk.
I can't tell if you guys are trolling but they just said they are posting the date and time of the press briefings on their X account instead of blasting out emails. The same info is on their publically available website
https://www.ntsb.gov/Pages/home.aspx (https://www.ntsb.gov/Pages/home.aspx)
Post by: catastrophe on February 01, 2025, 06:21:15 PM
So at a bare minimum it’s a naked plug for Elon Musk’s company, which would draw criticism for any candidate other than the guy who people are still processing dragged “DEI” into a plane crash involving exclusively white male pilots as bodies were still being pulled out of the Potomac.
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2025, 06:48:00 PM
As long as NTSB posts the same info on their publicly available website, then nbd in my book. However, their announcement didn’t promise they would do that.
They aren't posting the same information on their website.
Post by: Justwin on February 01, 2025, 08:58:06 PM
As long as NTSB posts the same info on their publicly available website, then nbd in my book. However, their announcement didn’t promise they would do that.
So at a bare minimum it’s a naked plug for Elon Musk’s company, which would draw criticism for any candidate other than the guy who people are still processing dragged “DEI” into a plane crash involving exclusively white male pilots as bodies were still being pulled out of the Potomac.
Exclusively white male pilots?
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2025, 09:11:22 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 02, 2025, 10:58:56 AM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 02, 2025, 11:31:15 AM
Post by: wetwillie on February 02, 2025, 11:33:56 AM
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2025, 12:38:51 PM
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:jpkqsgqyhueronwlqdhxawuu/bafkreibavmxvfboftzw4n45ysmapqzbtmvopbevo7jlwk5e26kp6bqun5y@jpeg)
Post by: LickNeckey on February 02, 2025, 02:50:15 PM
Post by: CHONGS on February 02, 2025, 02:53:55 PM
A lot to ponder here.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 02, 2025, 02:58:21 PM
https://bsky.app/profile/bubbaprog.lol/post/3lh77ekgdas2h
A lot to ponder here.
Comments are interesting here as to why they chose this specific organization. I'm sure they will make it to the Evangelical mega churches soon too right?
Also, it's completely mumped that these unelected fuckwits are going through the government data and picking and choosing who to go after. I'm sure the will take a fair and balanced approach.
Post by: Justwin on February 02, 2025, 05:44:07 PM
https://bsky.app/profile/bubbaprog.lol/post/3lh77ekgdas2h
A lot to ponder here.
Comments are interesting here as to why they chose this specific organization. I'm sure they will make it to the Evangelical mega churches soon too right?
Also, it's completely mumped that these unelected fuckwits are going through the government data and picking and choosing who to go after. I'm sure the will take a fair and balanced approach.
The ELCA is one of the most woke churches out there. That's my guess as to why this group was chosen.
Post by: CHONGS on February 02, 2025, 05:46:28 PM
Post by: Justwin on February 02, 2025, 05:52:32 PM
Post by: CHONGS on February 02, 2025, 05:53:40 PM
So many of you seem so bitter.For the same reason so many are jubilant.
Post by: hjfklmor on February 02, 2025, 06:03:52 PM
So many of you seem so bitter.
This is wildly illegal, are we just glossing over that? I am bitter that Musk and his DOGE employees, with no security clearance, have access to these systems.
Post by: bucket on February 02, 2025, 06:07:10 PM
So many of you seem so bitter.
This is wildly illegal, are we just glossing over that? I am bitter that Musk and his DOGE employees, with no security clearance, have access to these systems.
If that weren't bad enough.
https://bsky.app/profile/donmoyn.bsky.social/post/3lha4fhr7cc2e
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 02, 2025, 06:13:34 PM
So many of you seem so bitter.
This is wildly illegal, are we just glossing over that? I am bitter that Musk and his DOGE employees, with no security clearance, have access to these systems.
If that weren't bad enough.
https://bsky.app/profile/donmoyn.bsky.social/post/3lha4fhr7cc2e
That post requires a sign in. What does it say?
Post by: bucket on February 02, 2025, 06:16:33 PM
So many of you seem so bitter.
This is wildly illegal, are we just glossing over that? I am bitter that Musk and his DOGE employees, with no security clearance, have access to these systems.
If that weren't bad enough.
https://bsky.app/profile/donmoyn.bsky.social/post/3lha4fhr7cc2e
That post requires a sign in. What does it say?
Part of what we are seeing here is
a) Trump/DOGE officials claiming authority they do not have, trying to break the law
b) career officials pushing back
c) career officials punished: put on leave and likely fired when Schedule F returns.
Post by: LickNeckey on February 02, 2025, 06:26:28 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 02, 2025, 06:32:10 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 02, 2025, 06:42:37 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 03, 2025, 07:22:17 AM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886321811937189902
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 07:41:11 AM
I did not expect us to be going after South Africa but I guess it makes sense
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886321811937189902
This one does appear to be a naked favor to old classmates of Elon Musk. Maybe I am missing some other negotiation tactic or advantage we are trying to get from South Africa? I certainly don’t know, but I’d say (given my very low level understanding of the issues here) that this looks like something we should completely stay out of.
Post by: michigancat on February 03, 2025, 07:50:30 AM
I did not expect us to be going after South Africa but I guess it makes sense
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886321811937189902
This one does appear to be a naked favor to old classmates of Elon Musk. Maybe I am missing some other negotiation tactic or advantage we are trying to get from South Africa? I certainly don’t know, but I’d say (given my very low level understanding of the issues here) that this looks like something we should completely stay out of.
I think it's related to Starlink (in addition to the historical racist traditions of white south Africans)
https://www.itweb.co.za/article/sa-urged-not-to-compromise-transformation-agenda-for-starlink/P3gQ2qGAdNR7nRD1
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 03, 2025, 07:58:02 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250203/8668c43809d9e5a02f37406fe8dfceba.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 08:11:53 AM
I did not expect us to be going after South Africa but I guess it makes sense
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886321811937189902
This one does appear to be a naked favor to old classmates of Elon Musk. Maybe I am missing some other negotiation tactic or advantage we are trying to get from South Africa? I certainly don’t know, but I’d say (given my very low level understanding of the issues here) that this looks like something we should completely stay out of.
I think it's related to Starlink (in addition to the historical racist traditions of white south Africans)
https://www.itweb.co.za/article/sa-urged-not-to-compromise-transformation-agenda-for-starlink/P3gQ2qGAdNR7nRD1
Yep, I bet the SA government demanding that 30% equity be allocated to black owners did not please Starlink and Musk.
Quote
Tebogo Khaas, chairman of Public Interest SA, notes Starlink’s delayed launch in South Africa stems largely from its unwillingness to meet the regulatory stipulation that major players, including multinationals, allocate at least 30% equity to black ownership.
Post by: michigancat on February 03, 2025, 09:10:13 AM
I did not expect us to be going after South Africa but I guess it makes sense
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886321811937189902
This one does appear to be a naked favor to old classmates of Elon Musk. Maybe I am missing some other negotiation tactic or advantage we are trying to get from South Africa? I certainly don’t know, but I’d say (given my very low level understanding of the issues here) that this looks like something we should completely stay out of.
I think it's related to Starlink (in addition to the historical racist traditions of white south Africans)
https://www.itweb.co.za/article/sa-urged-not-to-compromise-transformation-agenda-for-starlink/P3gQ2qGAdNR7nRD1
Yep, I bet the SA government demanding that 30% equity be allocated to black owners did not please Starlink and Musk.QuoteTebogo Khaas, chairman of Public Interest SA, notes Starlink’s delayed launch in South Africa stems largely from its unwillingness to meet the regulatory stipulation that major players, including multinationals, allocate at least 30% equity to black ownership.
I did a little research and there are ways around it without explicitly giving up 30% of ownership. The system honestly sounds a lot like an ESG scorecard (RIP ESG).
but yeah it's cool we are potentially withholding aid over something like this.
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 10:21:51 AM
I did not expect us to be going after South Africa but I guess it makes sense
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886321811937189902
This one does appear to be a naked favor to old classmates of Elon Musk. Maybe I am missing some other negotiation tactic or advantage we are trying to get from South Africa? I certainly don’t know, but I’d say (given my very low level understanding of the issues here) that this looks like something we should completely stay out of.
I think it's related to Starlink (in addition to the historical racist traditions of white south Africans)
https://www.itweb.co.za/article/sa-urged-not-to-compromise-transformation-agenda-for-starlink/P3gQ2qGAdNR7nRD1
Yep, I bet the SA government demanding that 30% equity be allocated to black owners did not please Starlink and Musk.QuoteTebogo Khaas, chairman of Public Interest SA, notes Starlink’s delayed launch in South Africa stems largely from its unwillingness to meet the regulatory stipulation that major players, including multinationals, allocate at least 30% equity to black ownership.
I did a little research and there are ways around it without explicitly giving up 30% of ownership. The system honestly sounds a lot like an ESG scorecard (RIP ESG).
but yeah it's cool we are potentially withholding aid over something like this.
I agree we shouldn’t be involved. Luckily, it’s so minor that I don’t really give a eff though
Post by: star seed 7 on February 03, 2025, 10:42:34 AM
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 10:46:19 AM
The texag nazis are constantly talking about the genocide of white people in south africa, I'd assume this is another nod to them.
I’ve been to South Africa four times, each for an extended period of time. My conclusion is that it is a very mumped up place..
Post by: chum1 on February 03, 2025, 11:04:24 AM
Sounds very reasonable and responsible
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:jpkqsgqyhueronwlqdhxawuu/bafkreibavmxvfboftzw4n45ysmapqzbtmvopbevo7jlwk5e26kp6bqun5y@jpeg)
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:tbqqvyv6pjjww44glrmycaxl/bafkreidfwxrb5rvkmrhdisbkkrhus7pbpqf4irho463k34h4gj4cjb3oru@jpeg)
Post by: Justwin on February 03, 2025, 11:41:01 AM
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 11:43:31 AM
Sounds very reasonable and responsible
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:jpkqsgqyhueronwlqdhxawuu/bafkreibavmxvfboftzw4n45ysmapqzbtmvopbevo7jlwk5e26kp6bqun5y@jpeg)
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:tbqqvyv6pjjww44glrmycaxl/bafkreidfwxrb5rvkmrhdisbkkrhus7pbpqf4irho463k34h4gj4cjb3oru@jpeg)
My guess is that there is a lot more to this story about foreign aid than merely Elon being from South Africa and USA providing benefits to Black people in South Africa.
I think it will probably take weeks and months for the full story to come out. I do not expect it to come out immediately or in the next few days.
Post by: chum1 on February 03, 2025, 12:05:32 PM
Sounds very reasonable and responsible
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:jpkqsgqyhueronwlqdhxawuu/bafkreibavmxvfboftzw4n45ysmapqzbtmvopbevo7jlwk5e26kp6bqun5y@jpeg)
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:tbqqvyv6pjjww44glrmycaxl/bafkreidfwxrb5rvkmrhdisbkkrhus7pbpqf4irho463k34h4gj4cjb3oru@jpeg)
My guess is that there is a lot more to this story about foreign aid than merely Elon being from South Africa and USA providing benefits to Black people in South Africa.
I think it will probably take weeks and months for the full story to come out. I do not expect it to come out immediately or in the next few days.
That's perfectly consistent with all of the other apologist cope you've been doing lately. We already know that Musk is white supremacist friendly. I think this is a straightforward case of if the shoe fits, wear it.
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 12:20:15 PM
Sounds very reasonable and responsible
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:jpkqsgqyhueronwlqdhxawuu/bafkreibavmxvfboftzw4n45ysmapqzbtmvopbevo7jlwk5e26kp6bqun5y@jpeg)
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:tbqqvyv6pjjww44glrmycaxl/bafkreidfwxrb5rvkmrhdisbkkrhus7pbpqf4irho463k34h4gj4cjb3oru@jpeg)
My guess is that there is a lot more to this story about foreign aid than merely Elon being from South Africa and USA providing benefits to Black people in South Africa.
I think it will probably take weeks and months for the full story to come out. I do not expect it to come out immediately or in the next few days.
That's perfectly consistent with all of the other apologist cope you've been doing lately. We already know that Musk is white supremacist friendly. I think this is a straightforward case of if the shoe fits, wear it.
That’s an awfully personal attack. I choose to be able to pick and choose what I agree about, and will not uniformly dismiss ideas or programs because I do not like where they come from or the motive of the person who suggested it. If this means that we can no longer be friends, then that displeases me but I accept it.
Post by: CNS on February 03, 2025, 12:20:45 PM
Elon's plan is radical change without a reasonable path back.
To argue that is to give him benefit he doesn't deserve.
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 12:22:20 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 03, 2025, 12:27:11 PM
The only thing that we know for sure is that no one on this rough ridin' blog knows Jack crap about what’s going on.agreed and the logical thing to in this situation do would be to blindly put our trust in the unelected racist oligarch
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 12:28:12 PM
The only thing that we know for sure is that no one on this rough ridin' blog knows Jack crap about what’s going on.agreed and the logical thing to in this situation do would be to blindly put our trust in the unelected racist oligarch
Neither your opinion, nor my opinion, makes any rough ridin' difference here. Whatever I say about it has absolutely no consequence on what happens. You could run outside right now, in one of the most populated cities in the world and shout your head off about it not a rough ridin' thing is gonna change
Post by: bucket on February 03, 2025, 12:28:28 PM
The only thing that we know for sure is that no one on this rough ridin' blog knows Jack crap about what’s going on.agreed and the logical thing to in this situation do would be to blindly put our trust in the unelected racist oligarch
Illegally accessing government databases
Post by: star seed 7 on February 03, 2025, 12:28:55 PM
The only thing that we know for sure is that no one on this rough ridin' blog knows Jack crap about what’s going on.agreed and the logical thing to in this situation do would be to blindly put our trust in the unelected racist oligarch
Lol
Post by: CNS on February 03, 2025, 12:45:22 PM
The only thing that we know for sure is that no one on this rough ridin' blog knows Jack crap about what’s going on.agreed and the logical thing to in this situation do would be to blindly put our trust in the unelected racist oligarch
Illegally accessing government databases
This seems to be exactly it. It was said elsewhere, but if Kamala won and George Soros was inside our departments, physically and digitally taking over, tweeting about the crap Elon is tweeting about, imagine how the country would be reacting.
Elon is great with marketing rockets. That doesn’t give him any right to do what he is doing. These departments are ours. Trump should be explaining what he is doing or there should be legal consequences. There is zero in between.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 03, 2025, 12:51:42 PM
A con artist paradise . . .
Post by: bucket on February 03, 2025, 12:53:08 PM
Lot of raging out as the money laundering operations(s) are being brought to light.
A con artist paradise . . .
You'll have to expand on what these "money laundering operation(s)" are.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 03, 2025, 12:53:22 PM
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 12:53:51 PM
, investigations opened? I honestly don’t know, I’m genuinely asking. I have googled it and asked Perplexity AI (a good one that provides quality citations for the answers) and have found nothing. It seems like those answers would be more valuable to reference than the various “Elon makes me mad” iterations being presented in this thread.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 03, 2025, 12:54:41 PM
Lot of raging out as the money laundering operations(s) are being brought to light.
A con artist paradise . . .
You'll have to expand on what these "money laundering operation(s)" are.
I've already discussed that in another thread.
You guys were pumping money to Bill Kristol (from war crimes to a #blueanon favorite son :thumbsup:) via the Rockefeller Foundation (one of dozens of examples)
Post by: chum1 on February 03, 2025, 12:55:48 PM
That’s an awfully personal attack.
Didn't mean it that way at all, friend. Did want to add my voice to those who've noticed that you've been a bit different on this stuff lately.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 03, 2025, 12:58:57 PM
Lot of raging out as the money laundering operations(s) are being brought to light.
A con artist paradise . . .
you should have called us out on this years ago instead of being so lazer focused on hunter bidens meat rocket
Post by: chum1 on February 03, 2025, 01:02:27 PM
Has any legal authority weighed in on the legality of Musk’s involvement, or any charges pressed, court dates set
, investigations opened?
Lots of lawyers a saying basically all of the Elon stuff is illegal.
In the case of USAID, it was established by Congress long ago. Which means that no president can unilaterally remove it.
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 01:02:54 PM
That’s an awfully personal attack.
Didn't mean it that way at all, friend. Did want to add my voice to those who've noticed that you've been a bit different on this stuff lately.
I’m glad to hear that because I like you. I have been very different about it. I’ve been thinking this way for an awfully long time and it frankly been scared to say anything. I didn’t want to disappoint people.
I don’t like Elon Musk as a person and I suspect you’re probably right about his white power stuff. My experience with White South Africans consistently led me to realize that the ones that I interacted with were all of that mindset.
I want to reiterate that I absolutely hate Trump.
I just want to reject all or nothing thinking. I’m spiritually as healthy as I’ve ever been. I still don’t drink. I still try and take care of myself. Lots of doctors visits all that good stuff.
I still root for whatever makes life the best for average working class people in America. I like to think in terms of What would’ve helped people like my parents and grandparents when they were alive. People who didn’t commit crimes pay their taxes their whole lives, help their neighbors and were nice folks. My wife is a retired social worker and college social work instructor. I have intimate knowledge of what that field is about and the types of adversity that at risk populations face. I want what’s good for all of them. I just fear that we’re gonna have to make awfully hard choices in this country over the next 20 years and that many eggs will be broken in order to make the omelette. I don’t think we have time to quibble over whether an idea or a proposal comes from a bad guy or not. if it works let’s use it.
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 01:04:11 PM
Has any legal authority weighed in on the legality of Musk’s involvement, or any charges pressed, court dates set
, investigations opened?
Lots of lawyers a saying basically all of the Elon stuff is illegal.
In the case of USAID, it was established by Congress long ago. Which means that no president can unilaterally remove it.
Respectfully, I think we’re gonna find that there’s an awful lot of gray area.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 03, 2025, 01:04:21 PM
Lot of raging out as the money laundering operations(s) are being brought to light.
A con artist paradise . . .
Agreed. I can't wait until Doge looks in to the people that pumped billions in to completely useless meme coins of elected officials right before they were inaugurated and even after.
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 01:07:20 PM
I am at odds with almost all of Silicon Valley on this topic it seems.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 03, 2025, 01:12:39 PM
I was hoping that crypto would be completely outlawed unless it serves some essential purpose inside some other electronic exchange mechanism…. Some sort of token concept inside of a market based system, I don’t know. Crypto existing to merely be a means of speculation seems really, really bad.
I am at odds with almost all of Silicon Valley on this topic it seems.
I can remember when crypto was all "based on thin air" and worthless. Weird that the current people getting richer from who knows who is buying their useless coins is pro crypto now. I'm sure they all just "did their research" and there isn't anything sketchy going on at all.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 03, 2025, 01:26:37 PM
Lot of raging out as the money laundering operations(s) are being brought to light.
A con artist paradise . . .
Agreed. I can't wait until Doge looks in to the people that pumped billions in to completely useless meme coins of elected officials right before they were inaugurated and even after.
That has nothing to do with Federal spending and is absolute pinnacle deflection.
Stupid Fitz: Still Big Mad
Post by: Trim on February 03, 2025, 01:36:53 PM
The only thing that we know for sure is that no one on this rough ridin' blog knows Jack crap about what’s going on.
Oh no.
Nothing is confirmed. So anyone saying it’s made up doesn’t have the first rough ridin' clue if it is or not.
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 01:46:53 PM
The only thing that we know for sure is that no one on this rough ridin' blog knows Jack crap about what’s going on.
Oh no.Nothing is confirmed. So anyone saying it’s made up doesn’t have the first rough ridin' clue if it is or not.
I mean, he’s not wrong!
Post by: michigancat on February 03, 2025, 01:53:17 PM
That’s an awfully personal attack.
Didn't mean it that way at all, friend. Did want to add my voice to those who've noticed that you've been a bit different on this stuff lately.
I’m glad to hear that because I like you. I have been very different about it. I’ve been thinking this way for an awfully long time and it frankly been scared to say anything. I didn’t want to disappoint people.
I don’t like Elon Musk as a person and I suspect you’re probably right about his white power stuff. My experience with White South Africans consistently led me to realize that the ones that I interacted with were all of that mindset.
I want to reiterate that I absolutely hate Trump.
I just want to reject all or nothing thinking. I’m spiritually as healthy as I’ve ever been. I still don’t drink. I still try and take care of myself. Lots of doctors visits all that good stuff.
I still root for whatever makes life the best for average working class people in America. I like to think in terms of What would’ve helped people like my parents and grandparents when they were alive. People who didn’t commit crimes pay their taxes their whole lives, help their neighbors and were nice folks. My wife is a retired social worker and college social work instructor. I have intimate knowledge of what that field is about and the types of adversity that at risk populations face. I want what’s good for all of them. I just fear that we’re gonna have to make awfully hard choices in this country over the next 20 years and that many eggs will be broken in order to make the omelette. I don’t think we have time to quibble over whether an idea or a proposal comes from a bad guy or not. if it works let’s use it.
I think you're assuming I don't like what Musk is doing because he's a bad guy. I actually don't like most of what he's doing because I don't think it's good for the country or society in general. I would feel the same even if he wasn't a white supremacist.
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 01:56:16 PM
That’s an awfully personal attack.
Didn't mean it that way at all, friend. Did want to add my voice to those who've noticed that you've been a bit different on this stuff lately.
I’m glad to hear that because I like you. I have been very different about it. I’ve been thinking this way for an awfully long time and it frankly been scared to say anything. I didn’t want to disappoint people.
I don’t like Elon Musk as a person and I suspect you’re probably right about his white power stuff. My experience with White South Africans consistently led me to realize that the ones that I interacted with were all of that mindset.
I want to reiterate that I absolutely hate Trump.
I just want to reject all or nothing thinking. I’m spiritually as healthy as I’ve ever been. I still don’t drink. I still try and take care of myself. Lots of doctors visits all that good stuff.
I still root for whatever makes life the best for average working class people in America. I like to think in terms of What would’ve helped people like my parents and grandparents when they were alive. People who didn’t commit crimes pay their taxes their whole lives, help their neighbors and were nice folks. My wife is a retired social worker and college social work instructor. I have intimate knowledge of what that field is about and the types of adversity that at risk populations face. I want what’s good for all of them. I just fear that we’re gonna have to make awfully hard choices in this country over the next 20 years and that many eggs will be broken in order to make the omelette. I don’t think we have time to quibble over whether an idea or a proposal comes from a bad guy or not. if it works let’s use it.
I think you're assuming I don't like what Musk is doing because he's a bad guy. I actually don't like most of what he's doing because I don't think it's good for the country or society in general. I would feel the same even if he wasn't a white supremacist.
That’s definitely not what I would have guessed or deduced. But I respect you, And if you say that’s the case, then I’ll take you at your word.
Post by: Trim on February 03, 2025, 02:04:25 PM
The only thing that we know for sure is that no one on this rough ridin' blog knows Jack crap about what’s going on.
Oh no.Nothing is confirmed. So anyone saying it’s made up doesn’t have the first rough ridin' clue if it is or not.
I mean, he’s not wrong!
MasterPETEces.
Post by: mocat on February 03, 2025, 02:18:19 PM
The only thing that we know for sure is that no one on this rough ridin' blog knows Jack crap about what’s going on.
Oh no.Nothing is confirmed. So anyone saying it’s made up doesn’t have the first rough ridin' clue if it is or not.
first place my brain went also. Pete are you doing a bit?
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 03, 2025, 02:18:24 PM
Lot of raging out as the money laundering operations(s) are being brought to light.
A con artist paradise . . .
Agreed. I can't wait until Doge looks in to the people that pumped billions in to completely useless meme coins of elected officials right before they were inaugurated and even after.
That has nothing to do with Federal spending and is absolute pinnacle deflection.
Stupid Fitz: Still Big Mad
sorry friend, I thought you were talking about money laundering in general. I don't want any money laundering to be going on, especially within our own government. I guess focusing one type of potential money laundering and not the other is at least a start. :cheers:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 03, 2025, 02:56:38 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 03, 2025, 03:08:25 PM
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1886499743779709308
Post by: mocat on February 03, 2025, 03:30:01 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 03, 2025, 03:31:46 PM
Post by: Trim on February 03, 2025, 03:33:00 PM
BOLD AND DARING PREDICTION: this presidency will reveal the limit of dax's stamina
:surprised:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 03, 2025, 03:45:34 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 03, 2025, 04:26:54 PM
That’s an awfully personal attack.
Didn't mean it that way at all, friend. Did want to add my voice to those who've noticed that you've been a bit different on this stuff lately.
I’m glad to hear that because I like you. I have been very different about it. I’ve been thinking this way for an awfully long time and it frankly been scared to say anything. I didn’t want to disappoint people.
I don’t like Elon Musk as a person and I suspect you’re probably right about his white power stuff. My experience with White South Africans consistently led me to realize that the ones that I interacted with were all of that mindset.
I want to reiterate that I absolutely hate Trump.
I just want to reject all or nothing thinking. I’m spiritually as healthy as I’ve ever been. I still don’t drink. I still try and take care of myself. Lots of doctors visits all that good stuff.
I still root for whatever makes life the best for average working class people in America. I like to think in terms of What would’ve helped people like my parents and grandparents when they were alive. People who didn’t commit crimes pay their taxes their whole lives, help their neighbors and were nice folks. My wife is a retired social worker and college social work instructor. I have intimate knowledge of what that field is about and the types of adversity that at risk populations face. I want what’s good for all of them. I just fear that we’re gonna have to make awfully hard choices in this country over the next 20 years and that many eggs will be broken in order to make the omelette. I don’t think we have time to quibble over whether an idea or a proposal comes from a bad guy or not. if it works let’s use it.
I think you're assuming I don't like what Musk is doing because he's a bad guy. I actually don't like most of what he's doing because I don't think it's good for the country or society in general. I would feel the same even if he wasn't a white supremacist.
That’s definitely not what I would have guessed or deduced. But I respect you, And if you say that’s the case, then I’ll take you at your word.
Take what Elon did with twitter, for example. Creating a more friendly environment for nazis and nazi sympathizers is bad, whether or not it is implemented by a nazi sympathizer. I also wouldn't like Warren Buffet going through the USAid payments and calling out crap he doesn't like (even if it may or may not benefitt his business or political interests). And Warren Buffet is a US citizen that I like and respect!
I will say, fair or not, the fact that he is a nazi sympathizer will make me question not just if his motivations are sincere but if the results are selling the public are also what will happen. He had a long track record of overpromising and underdelivering and being generally sneaky even before the nazi sympathizing, and I think the nazi sympathizing has earned him a little more scrutiny.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 03, 2025, 04:28:32 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 03, 2025, 05:04:31 PM
Anyway,
https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/the-twitter-files-playbook-comes-for-the-us-government/
Post by: star seed 7 on February 03, 2025, 05:09:40 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 03, 2025, 05:14:32 PM
I'd forgotten about the Twitter files but that style of "journalism" seemed bad. (Fwiw, an example of someone who I often agree with and think is a good person doing journalism I don't like it's when Jon Stewart had those gotcha interviews with like low-level Arkansas and Oklahoma start legislators.)
Anyway,
https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/the-twitter-files-playbook-comes-for-the-us-government/
This was always how it was going to go. They are going to find random crap like this, misinterpret it because they are idiots and/or because they know the people that will read the tweets about it are idiots and then get cheered because they shut it down. eff the people that were actually helped by whatever org they are shutting down. eff the people that worked for said org. None of it matters when you control the message and have a vast army of bootlickers that think they will gain something from any of this.
Post by: bucket on February 03, 2025, 05:19:28 PM
I'd forgotten about the Twitter files but that style of "journalism" seemed bad. (Fwiw, an example of someone who I often agree with and think is a good person doing journalism I don't like it's when Jon Stewart had those gotcha interviews with like low-level Arkansas and Oklahoma start legislators.)
Anyway,
https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/the-twitter-files-playbook-comes-for-the-us-government/
This was always how it was going to go. They are going to find random crap like this, misinterpret it because they are idiots and/or because they know the people that will read the tweets about it are idiots and then get cheered because they shut it down. eff the people that were actually helped by whatever org they are shutting down. eff the people that worked for said org. None of it matters when you control the message and have a vast army of bootlickers that think they will gain something from any of this.
https://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=42362.msg2313487#msg2313487
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 03, 2025, 06:20:32 PM
There's nothing to misinterpret.
This is classic #blueanon - when caught being a bunch of cockroaches (which is a lot) - deploy the old "but you don't understand" shtick and/or go find a usual mouthpiece and dictate a story to them and then have them go regurgitate it on their respective #blueanon go to media outlet. Parrot the dictated explanation relentlessly . . . . making sure all outlets are reading from the same script - expect simp brain #blueanon to follow suit by the millions
Post by: chum1 on February 03, 2025, 06:43:27 PM
Has any legal authority weighed in on the legality of Musk’s involvement, or any charges pressed, court dates set
, investigations opened?
Lots of lawyers a saying basically all of the Elon stuff is illegal.
In the case of USAID, it was established by Congress long ago. Which means that no president can unilaterally remove it.
Respectfully, I think we’re gonna find that there’s an awful lot of gray area.
There will be plenty of opportunity to find out!
https://www.citizen.org/news/advocacy-group-unions-sue-treasury-department-over-illegal-doge-data-access/
Post by: Pete on February 03, 2025, 06:44:56 PM
Has any legal authority weighed in on the legality of Musk’s involvement, or any charges pressed, court dates set
, investigations opened?
Lots of lawyers a saying basically all of the Elon stuff is illegal.
In the case of USAID, it was established by Congress long ago. Which means that no president can unilaterally remove it.
Respectfully, I think we’re gonna find that there’s an awful lot of gray area.
There will be plenty of opportunity to find out!
https://www.citizen.org/news/advocacy-group-unions-sue-treasury-department-over-illegal-doge-data-access/
I hope it’s all litigated as fast as possible. I truly do.
Post by: michigancat on February 03, 2025, 07:07:08 PM
John Oliver falls into that trap too. Generally like him and think he's a good person, but the show at times is as half-truthy as dax.
Yep that's a great example even if it's a different style. He's funny, fast, and witty and there's no real way to fact check.
Also I realized that what is going on might be more akin to libsoftiktok "journalism" than Twitter files. Just screenshots with no context, and the goons lap it up and if it is proven false it doesn't matter because the people have made up their minds and the damage is done.
Post by: bucket on February 03, 2025, 07:09:06 PM
There's nothing to misinterpret.
usaspending.gov shows 100% of the funds that went to Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors from USAID went to Migration and Refugee Assistance / U.S. Refugee Admissions Program
Post by: michigancat on February 04, 2025, 06:27:59 AM
https://x.com/calebecarma/status/1886427604984516806
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 04, 2025, 08:23:26 AM
Missed this yesterday, not sure it's great for national security
https://x.com/calebecarma/status/1886427604984516806
Do you think they borrowed Hilary's? :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
Post by: mocat on February 04, 2025, 08:39:34 AM
Missed this yesterday, not sure it's great for national security
https://x.com/calebecarma/status/1886427604984516806
more
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-associate-bfs-federal-payment-system/ (https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-associate-bfs-federal-payment-system/)
Post by: cfbandyman on February 04, 2025, 08:48:16 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 04, 2025, 08:48:44 AM
He, like trump, is going to get a ton of people in a eff ton of trouble
And not the ones he thinks will get into trouble
Post by: mocat on February 04, 2025, 09:05:58 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/31/us/politics/david-lebryk-treasury-resigns-musk.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/31/us/politics/david-lebryk-treasury-resigns-musk.html)
Post by: cfbandyman on February 04, 2025, 10:24:59 AM
i know a lot has gone on in the past four (4) days but i don't want to gloss over this. insanity.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/31/us/politics/david-lebryk-treasury-resigns-musk.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/31/us/politics/david-lebryk-treasury-resigns-musk.html)
Once people's SS checks/tax returns etc get delayed or stopped this will go very super well. About as super well as paypal's scheme with honey to steal all of youtube's content creators cash via honey.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 10:42:20 AM
That of course doesn't even count the "legit" checks going through the money laundering washer to #blueanon's most favored think tanks, and human trafficking NGO's.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 04, 2025, 10:58:26 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250204/67ab03abe1a7159db2b3bb8b07ce25c2.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 04, 2025, 11:00:26 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 11:00:58 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 11:21:27 AM
This is truly the life and times of #blueanon - the must mumped political/criminal enterprise, ever
https://twitter.com/datarepublican/status/1886647920566636637?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: mocat on February 04, 2025, 11:46:07 AM
Post by: mocat on February 04, 2025, 11:48:05 AM
elon musk has access to the US treasury department payment system. unrestricted access, as far as i can tell.dax are you saying you're good with that? Because you saw a flowchart with no names on it produced by this twitter account?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250204/d5d3ad55ec2601ae9f4a83cc674fda80.jpg)
Post by: bucket on February 04, 2025, 11:52:05 AM
elon musk has access to the US treasury department payment system. unrestricted access, as far as i can tell.dax are you saying you're good with that? Because you saw a flowchart with no names on it produced by this twitter account?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250204/d5d3ad55ec2601ae9f4a83cc674fda80.jpg)
It’s the same account that he was posting yesterday that was shown to be spreading misinformation.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 12:55:31 PM
You were part of the 4 largest disinformation/misinformation campaigns in US political history
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 01:13:15 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gi7ra82XcAAcRkZ?format=jpg&name=small)
Post by: mocat on February 04, 2025, 01:30:57 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on February 04, 2025, 02:17:59 PM
The BBC - Lined up at the trough
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gi7ra82XcAAcRkZ?format=jpg&name=small)
Wait, what the hell? USAID gave $3,000,000 of a $40,000,000,000 budget to a UK based charity? Holy hell, shut it all the way down. GOVERNMENT WASTE!!!!!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/where-we-work/
Post by: LickNeckey on February 04, 2025, 02:47:44 PM
the fact that dax thinks this is some king of gotcha is dorbs
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 04, 2025, 03:05:12 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 03:29:57 PM
We've just never seen that before . . . provided you've only been alive for a minute and thirty seven seconds.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 03:31:47 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/
the fact that dax thinks this is some king of gotcha is dorbs
It's no gotcha . . . the fact that we have funds flowing out like this just affirms that it needs to be reigned in substantially.
The pants sharting by #blueanon over all of this only affirms that it's nothing but a massive money laundering operation.
Why does an entity operating under the umbrella of a G7 economy and government need charity from the United States?
Insert video of AfricCom commander in Congressional chambers by and large admitting that we're coup'ing the eff out of African countries here . . .
Post by: michigancat on February 04, 2025, 03:39:35 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 03:43:10 PM
I know #neocongE isn't very smart, but a lot of radicalized people know who is behind most of this stuff, they're not stupid.
Post by: mocat on February 04, 2025, 03:43:29 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 03:45:24 PM
Post by: wELLsculptedbrows on February 04, 2025, 03:48:42 PM
Any #blueanon/#blueanongE talking about "misinformation" at this point in history needs to be :lol: :lol: :lol: at with zeal and verve
You were part of the 4 largest disinformation/misinformation campaigns in US political history
... the 4 biggest disinformation campaigns in modern US political history:
1. Trump-Russia COLUSION
2. Hunters laptop was a Russian intelligence operation
3. The border is secure
4. The sock puppet former president was of sound mind
I sincerely appreciate you giving us your (modern) political disinformation/misinformation campaign power rankings, but I still don't get why there are four.
Was there a bracket or something? Surely you have a fifth.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 03:52:53 PM
Post by: wELLsculptedbrows on February 04, 2025, 03:54:49 PM
I just figured you're were letting WMDs cross the aisle.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 04, 2025, 03:59:05 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 04:02:10 PM
Oh, good one.
I just figured you're were letting WMDs cross the aisle.
That certainly ranks up there, but the difference is that Iraq at one time actually had WMD's and used them, and Saddam's regime had been purposefully evasive on the topic . . . likely because they viewed that as a possible hedge against regime change. But it all gets watered down dramatically with the bi-partisan support of the war.
What is a good candidate for Top 4 - is the attempt to tie Saddam's regime to AQ.
Post by: mocat on February 04, 2025, 04:10:59 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 04:27:10 PM
Post by: bucket on February 04, 2025, 05:05:33 PM
mo . . . is this an instance when the whirlwind has been unleashed and #blueanon doesn't know what hit it?
I agree
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 05:20:47 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 04, 2025, 05:32:37 PM
Also, I know reading the above made your pants move, but Dax, I'm cool with this crap being audited. Some sort of audit or review should have been done a long time ago. I just personally would prefer it be done through congress. Preferably maybe a bipartisan committee appointed by congress and with any contractors used being vetted and given appropriate clearance. I'm not on board with Elon and his unvetted minions getting access to anything they want via a giant crayon signed document that people slid in front of grandpa to sign during big boy camera time. You and the rest of the cult would have been losing your freaking minds if anything like what is happening now was going on in the previous administration.
Post by: mocat on February 04, 2025, 05:34:51 PM
Post by: CNS on February 04, 2025, 05:46:28 PM
i am being completely serious: does anyone have the power to stop elon musk from tampering with united states treasury payments?
It doesn’t matter. He knows it. Absolute worst case scenario his whole crew gets pardons.
Post by: wetwillie on February 04, 2025, 06:06:53 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 04, 2025, 06:08:11 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 04, 2025, 06:15:30 PM
I have to give credit where it’s due, I figured in this quest to remove all the guardrails they were going to trip on their dicks at some point but god damn if they aren’t speed running this thang
yeah, I didn't think we would get a quote from a republican saying "sure its unconstitutional, but whatevs". I knew crap was going to hit the fan, but I kinda figured the constitution was still a backstop.
Post by: wetwillie on February 04, 2025, 06:19:44 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 04, 2025, 06:31:04 PM
Post by: mocat on February 04, 2025, 06:36:25 PM
What does the constitution say about access to the treasury payment system exactly?
messing with funds that have been allocated by congress is a pretty big one
Post by: chum1 on February 04, 2025, 06:40:12 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 04, 2025, 06:42:36 PM
What does the constitution say about access to the treasury payment system exactly?
messing with funds that have been allocated by congress is a pretty big one
Should be easy to challenge on legal grounds then
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2025, 06:43:37 PM
What does the constitution say about access to the treasury payment system exactly?
messing with funds that have been allocated by congress is a pretty big one
Should be easy to challenge on legal grounds then
Who is going to enforce it?
Post by: wetwillie on February 04, 2025, 06:45:26 PM
What does the constitution say about access to the treasury payment system exactly?
messing with funds that have been allocated by congress is a pretty big one
Should be easy to challenge on legal grounds then
Who is going to enforce it?
Congress can do that
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2025, 06:46:07 PM
What does the constitution say about access to the treasury payment system exactly?
messing with funds that have been allocated by congress is a pretty big one
Should be easy to challenge on legal grounds then
Who is going to enforce it?
Congress can do that
Can and will are not the same thing
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 04, 2025, 06:46:51 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 04, 2025, 06:55:11 PM
What does the constitution say about access to the treasury payment system exactly?
messing with funds that have been allocated by congress is a pretty big one
Should be easy to challenge on legal grounds then
Who is going to enforce it?
Congress can do that
Can and will are not the same thing
68 senators are ok with it, so I would agree that a 2/3rds majority needed to remove the president is unlikely.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 04, 2025, 07:45:32 PM
What does the constitution say about access to the treasury payment system exactly?
(https://i.imgur.com/Bc8Yo7A.gif)
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2025, 07:49:46 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 04, 2025, 07:57:42 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 04, 2025, 09:24:00 PM
The laundry machine is busted, folks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: michigancat on February 05, 2025, 07:24:40 AM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886813638691787158
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:50:58 AM
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 05, 2025, 08:18:13 AM
The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
I don't need anymore reason to hate him but he keeps giving those who are on the sidelines more reason to hate him. This isn't just a hope but I really do think Tesla as a car company maybe done for. Essentially alienating the core of your business is not exactly the way to go about it. And then hoping bootlickers will backfill those exiting, in an electric car company, is a bold gamble on.
Post by: chum1 on February 05, 2025, 08:33:44 AM
Quote
Giving access to SSNs, other data on government employees to non-employees like Musk is a violation of 5 USC 552a, and carries with it a penalty of $1000 per person whose data was accessed. We are building a case. Govt employees who want to participate should contact me directly
https://bsky.app/profile/marklemley.bsky.social/post/3lhbmwfn2qc2n
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 05, 2025, 08:34:24 AM
The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
I don't need anymore reason to hate him but he keeps giving those who are on the sidelines more reason to hate him. This isn't just a hope but I really do think Tesla as a car company maybe done for. Essentially alienating the core of your business is not exactly the way to go about it. And then hoping bootlickers will backfill those exiting, in an electric car company, is a bold gamble on.
As long as Trump says he's good, he's good. As long as he keeps giving money to Trump, Trump will say he's good.
Post by: mocat on February 05, 2025, 08:57:22 AM
Post by: chum1 on February 05, 2025, 10:39:18 AM
Quote
I’m in Oversight Committee right now. Ranking Member Connolly just called for a vote to subpoena Elon Musk. Republicans out-number us on this committee, but many aren’t in the room. We’ll see who wins this vote. We deserve transparency and answers.
Republicans ran into the room to SHEILD Elon Musk from having to come and speak to Congress. They want their billionaire takeover done behind closed doors. The people deserve transparency. No one elected Elon Musk.
https://bsky.app/profile/maxwellfrost.bsky.social/post/3lhgvhrkjyc2p
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 05, 2025, 10:46:40 AM
QuoteI’m in Oversight Committee right now. Ranking Member Connolly just called for a vote to subpoena Elon Musk. Republicans out-number us on this committee, but many aren’t in the room. We’ll see who wins this vote. We deserve transparency and answers.
Republicans ran into the room to SHEILD Elon Musk from having to come and speak to Congress. They want their billionaire takeover done behind closed doors. The people deserve transparency. No one elected Elon Musk.
https://bsky.app/profile/maxwellfrost.bsky.social/post/3lhgvhrkjyc2p
I'm not sure what is more fascinating. We've said it a million times that its pretty amazing that a draft dodging, wife cheating, suit wearing, born on third NY billionaire took over the "conservative" party, but its almost equally fascinating that a South African, California EV, climate change believing Lib was able to get to equal conservative cult status. R's just love to lick boots I guess. :dunno:
Post by: chum1 on February 05, 2025, 10:55:14 AM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 11:02:14 AM
Love of fascism is their common ground.
These days, we should probably just say authoritarianism versus fascism or else we’ll get ground into the dirt in some sort of wonky conversation about whether it’s originating from the left or the right.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 05, 2025, 11:04:38 AM
The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
The richest man on Earth being greedy and wanting to enrich himself is not surprising. The skills needed to amass an unfathomable fortune also doesn't really suggest he would be good at governing in a fair, just, or democratic manner.
Post by: chum1 on February 05, 2025, 11:05:39 AM
Love of fascism is their common ground.
These days, we should probably just say authoritarianism versus fascism or else we’ll get ground into the dirt in some sort of wonky conversation about whether it’s originating from the left or the right.
I intentionally said fascism because it is specific to the right and accurately describes what is happening in this country.
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 11:05:53 AM
The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
The richest man on Earth being greedy and wanting to enrich himself is not surprising. The skills needed to amass an unfathomable fortune also doesn't really suggest he would be good at governing in a fair, just, or democratic manner.
Completely agree. I wouldn’t of trusted Andrew Carnegie or the Rockefellers for example
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 11:06:39 AM
Love of fascism is their common ground.
These days, we should probably just say authoritarianism versus fascism or else we’ll get ground into the dirt in some sort of wonky conversation about whether it’s originating from the left or the right.
I intentionally said fascism because it is specific to the right and accurately describes what is happening in this country.
Yeah, I acknowledge that you know what’s what. I was just preemptively, trying to shut down the peanut gallery on your behalf
Post by: Kat Kid on February 05, 2025, 11:09:34 AM
The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
The richest man on Earth being greedy and wanting to enrich himself is not surprising. The skills needed to amass an unfathomable fortune also doesn't really suggest he would be good at governing in a fair, just, or democratic manner.
Completely agree. I wouldn’t of trusted Andrew Carnegie or the Rockefellers for example
Funny enough, Carnegie was pretty instrumental in standing up our incredible public library system. Thanks for that!
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 11:11:11 AM
The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
The richest man on Earth being greedy and wanting to enrich himself is not surprising. The skills needed to amass an unfathomable fortune also doesn't really suggest he would be good at governing in a fair, just, or democratic manner.
Completely agree. I wouldn’t of trusted Andrew Carnegie or the Rockefellers for example
Funny enough, Carnegie was pretty instrumental in standing up our incredible public library system. Thanks for that!
90% of his wealth went to it. Though I think we should acknowledge that we are on the cusp of libraries being completely obsolete apart from perhaps a concept like the seed vault that houses books in the event of a global catastrophe.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 05, 2025, 11:13:32 AM
The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
The richest man on Earth being greedy and wanting to enrich himself is not surprising. The skills needed to amass an unfathomable fortune also doesn't really suggest he would be good at governing in a fair, just, or democratic manner.
Completely agree. I wouldn’t of trusted Andrew Carnegie or the Rockefellers for example
Funny enough, Carnegie was pretty instrumental in standing up our incredible public library system. Thanks for that!
90% of his wealth went to it. Though I think we should acknowledge that we are on the cusp of libraries being completely obsolete apart from perhaps a concept like the seed vault that houses books in the event of a global catastrophe.
I think you and I have very different levels of trust for digital vs print records and the possibility for censorship and tampering.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2025, 11:15:46 AM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 11:26:42 AM
The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
The richest man on Earth being greedy and wanting to enrich himself is not surprising. The skills needed to amass an unfathomable fortune also doesn't really suggest he would be good at governing in a fair, just, or democratic manner.
Completely agree. I wouldn’t of trusted Andrew Carnegie or the Rockefellers for example
Funny enough, Carnegie was pretty instrumental in standing up our incredible public library system. Thanks for that!
90% of his wealth went to it. Though I think we should acknowledge that we are on the cusp of libraries being completely obsolete apart from perhaps a concept like the seed vault that houses books in the event of a global catastrophe.
I think you and I have very different levels of trust for digital vs print records and the possibility for censorship and tampering.
This is an excellent use case for Blockchain and one that I hope materializes
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 11:28:58 AM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 11:30:45 AM
Elite gif usage there
Fabulous
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 11:35:47 AM
What does the constitution say about access to the treasury payment system exactly?
messing with funds that have been allocated by congress is a pretty big one
Maxinomics pointed out that congress allocates the funds and how they can be used, but the executive likely has power over WHETHER they are used. It’s a clever tactic, I’ll give them that.
Quote
While Congress has the constitutional "power of the purse" to allocate federal funds, the executive branch is tasked with spending those funds as directed. However, the executive branch can influence whether and how funds are spent through mechanisms like **impoundment**, which involves delaying or withholding expenditures. The **Impoundment Control Act of 1974** limits this authority, requiring the president to notify Congress and follow specific procedures when deferring or rescinding funds[1][2][4].
The president cannot unilaterally refuse to spend funds based on policy disagreements with Congress. However, there is some legal gray area for "programmatic delays," though these must comply with established criteria[2]. Ultimately, Congress retains the authority to enforce its spending decisions, ensuring that funds are used as intended[4][6].
Sources
[1] Here’s How Government Funding Works https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/28/us/politics/trump-grants-loans-aid.html
[2] Can the Trump administration freeze federal spending? https://www.brookings.edu/articles/can-the-trump-administration-freeze-federal-spending/
[3] ArtI.S8.C1.2.1 Overview of Spending Clause - Constitution Annotated https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C1-2-1/ALDE_00013356/
[4] [PDF] Congress's Power Over Appropriations: Constitutional and Statutory ... https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46417
[5] The Federal Budget Process Fact Sheet https://www.nvfc.org/the-federal-budget-process-fact-sheet/
[6] How Trump Plans to Seize the Power of the Purse From Congress https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-impoundment-appropriations-congress-budget
[7] Fact check: Presidential spending through executive order is allowed https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/21/fact-check-presidential-spending-through-executive-order-allowed/5582667002/
[8] Federal Spending | U.S. Treasury Fiscal Data https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/
[9] [PDF] Constitutional Limits on Congress's Spending Power - CRS Reports https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46827
[10] Budget Process | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/about/budget-process
Post by: CNS on February 05, 2025, 11:49:15 AM
QuoteGiving access to SSNs, other data on government employees to non-employees like Musk is a violation of 5 USC 552a, and carries with it a penalty of $1000 per person whose data was accessed. We are building a case. Govt employees who want to participate should contact me directly
https://bsky.app/profile/marklemley.bsky.social/post/3lhbmwfn2qc2n
Is this an offense that a pardon wouldn't cure? If not, it doesn't matter. I don't know the necessary arm, branch, org, etc that could stop this, but any authority there is would just run this through the courts, and Trump would pardon before anything could happen. Then, rinse and repeat.
Post by: chum1 on February 05, 2025, 11:51:28 AM
QuoteGiving access to SSNs, other data on government employees to non-employees like Musk is a violation of 5 USC 552a, and carries with it a penalty of $1000 per person whose data was accessed. We are building a case. Govt employees who want to participate should contact me directly
https://bsky.app/profile/marklemley.bsky.social/post/3lhbmwfn2qc2n
Is this an offense that a pardon wouldn't cure? If not, it doesn't matter. I don't know the necessary arm, branch, org, etc that could stop this, but any authority there is would just run this through the courts, and Trump would pardon before anything could happen. Then, rinse and repeat.
It's a civil case, not criminal.
Post by: wetwillie on February 05, 2025, 12:22:15 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 05, 2025, 01:08:35 PM
What does the constitution say about access to the treasury payment system exactly?
messing with funds that have been allocated by congress is a pretty big one
Maxinomics pointed out that congress allocates the funds and how they can be used, but the executive likely has power over WHETHER they are used. It’s a clever tactic, I’ll give them that.Quote
While Congress has the constitutional "power of the purse" to allocate federal funds, the executive branch is tasked with spending those funds as directed. However, the executive branch can influence whether and how funds are spent through mechanisms like **impoundment**, which involves delaying or withholding expenditures. The **Impoundment Control Act of 1974** limits this authority, requiring the president to notify Congress and follow specific procedures when deferring or rescinding funds[1][2][4].
The president cannot unilaterally refuse to spend funds based on policy disagreements with Congress. However, there is some legal gray area for "programmatic delays," though these must comply with established criteria[2]. Ultimately, Congress retains the authority to enforce its spending decisions, ensuring that funds are used as intended[4][6].
Sources
[1] Here’s How Government Funding Works https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/28/us/politics/trump-grants-loans-aid.html
[2] Can the Trump administration freeze federal spending? https://www.brookings.edu/articles/can-the-trump-administration-freeze-federal-spending/
[3] ArtI.S8.C1.2.1 Overview of Spending Clause - Constitution Annotated https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C1-2-1/ALDE_00013356/
[4] [PDF] Congress's Power Over Appropriations: Constitutional and Statutory ... https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46417
[5] The Federal Budget Process Fact Sheet https://www.nvfc.org/the-federal-budget-process-fact-sheet/
[6] How Trump Plans to Seize the Power of the Purse From Congress https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-impoundment-appropriations-congress-budget
[7] Fact check: Presidential spending through executive order is allowed https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/21/fact-check-presidential-spending-through-executive-order-allowed/5582667002/
[8] Federal Spending | U.S. Treasury Fiscal Data https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/
[9] [PDF] Constitutional Limits on Congress's Spending Power - CRS Reports https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46827
[10] Budget Process | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/about/budget-process
Maybe you're referring to something other than what you pasted below, but I think it's pretty clear the executive does not have authority to determine whether allocated funds are spent. This was a pretty hot topic last Trump term when he tried to withhold Ukrainian aide until they announced a public investigation of a political rival's son.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 05, 2025, 01:30:44 PM
I'm frankly a little embarrassed for the Dems who showed up at the USAID door steps in the last couple of days. It looked like the bank run scene in that holiday classic, It's a Wonderful Life
Sad and pathetic
Post by: Kat Kid on February 05, 2025, 01:53:15 PM
Quote
WASHINGTON ? About 10,000 employees of the United States Agency for International Development, excluding essential personnel, have been notified that they will be placed on administrative leave at the end of Friday as President Donald Trump moves to dismantle the foreign aid agency.
A State Department notice to USAID employees ? two-thirds of whom work overseas across 60 countries ? said all USAID "direct hire personnel" across the world will be placed on administrative leave effective Friday at 11:59 p.m. ET.
The only exception is for designated personnel responsible for "mission-critical functions, core leadership and specially designated programs."
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 02:40:40 PM
the funniest part is that it is highly likely that the only USAID people that didn't get immediately recalled are the CIA/propaganda programs.QuoteWASHINGTON ? About 10,000 employees of the United States Agency for International Development, excluding essential personnel, have been notified that they will be placed on administrative leave at the end of Friday as President Donald Trump moves to dismantle the foreign aid agency.
A State Department notice to USAID employees ? two-thirds of whom work overseas across 60 countries ? said all USAID "direct hire personnel" across the world will be placed on administrative leave effective Friday at 11:59 p.m. ET.
The only exception is for designated personnel responsible for "mission-critical functions, core leadership and specially designated programs."
Of course. Neither Donald nor Elon wants to die over this.
Post by: Cire on February 05, 2025, 03:02:38 PM
The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
The richest man on Earth being greedy and wanting to enrich himself is not surprising. The skills needed to amass an unfathomable fortune also doesn't really suggest he would be good at governing in a fair, just, or democratic manner.
Completely agree. I wouldn’t of trusted Andrew Carnegie or the Rockefellers for example
Funny enough, Carnegie was pretty instrumental in standing up our incredible public library system. Thanks for that!
90% of his wealth went to it. Though I think we should acknowledge that we are on the cusp of libraries being completely obsolete apart from perhaps a concept like the seed vault that houses books in the event of a global catastrophe.
Libraries are/can be more than just a place to get a book. They provide A LOT of community resources for under privelidged people and communities.
But that's because I think that those people deserve to have access to air conditioning, food/kids lunch programs, the internet, meeting spaces.
Elon would certainly cut all fed funding asap though because he doesn't care about any of that.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 05, 2025, 03:08:29 PM
Quote
Elon Musk’s “DOGE” cost-cutting squad will soon turn its attention to America’s air traffic control system, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said Wednesday in a post to Musk’s social media site X.
“Talked to the DOGE team. They are going to plug in to help upgrade our aviation system,” Duffy said.
Post by: wetwillie on February 05, 2025, 03:19:01 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 05, 2025, 03:22:38 PM
Anecdotally - I shared adult beverages last night (and K-State Hoops) with someone who is an IT contractor, who spends his entire day buried in the USDA's IT platform.
Post by: LickNeckey on February 05, 2025, 05:27:07 PM
I think there is tremendous potential for positive changes to occur.
I think there is also tremendous potential for there to be significant negative consequences both intended and unintended
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 06:01:38 PM
I am interested to see how the DOGE experience plays out.This is how I feel
I think there is tremendous potential for positive changes to occur.
I think there is also tremendous potential for there to be significant negative consequences both intended and unintended
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 06:07:41 PM
Well, I doubt Carnegie would’ve donated the money if he thought that libraries were gonna be used that way so that’s kind of ironic.The longer Elon spends time on things outside of his businesses the more allies Elon loses. I suspect his most ardent supporters are more entrenched by this, but it makes it increasingly difficult for people like me, who value the entrepreneurial approach that he brings to technical and defense related challenges.
Elon being anywhere near domestic policies (or even international politics) displeases me. I do not approve of it and I do not like it.
The richest man on Earth being greedy and wanting to enrich himself is not surprising. The skills needed to amass an unfathomable fortune also doesn't really suggest he would be good at governing in a fair, just, or democratic manner.
Completely agree. I wouldn’t of trusted Andrew Carnegie or the Rockefellers for example
Funny enough, Carnegie was pretty instrumental in standing up our incredible public library system. Thanks for that!
90% of his wealth went to it. Though I think we should acknowledge that we are on the cusp of libraries being completely obsolete apart from perhaps a concept like the seed vault that houses books in the event of a global catastrophe.
Libraries are/can be more than just a place to get a book. They provide A LOT of community resources for under privelidged people and communities.
But that's because I think that those people deserve to have access to air conditioning, food/kids lunch programs, the internet, meeting spaces.
Elon would certainly cut all fed funding asap though because he doesn't care about any of that.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 05, 2025, 06:15:56 PM
I am interested to see how the DOGE experience plays out.This is how I feel
I think there is tremendous potential for positive changes to occur.
I think there is also tremendous potential for there to be significant negative consequences both intended and unintended
Lots to learn from when the idiots are done. But agreed, kinda fascinating
Post by: chum1 on February 05, 2025, 06:22:17 PM
tremendous potential for positive changes to occur.
Lmao
Post by: wetwillie on February 05, 2025, 06:30:33 PM
Post by: CNS on February 05, 2025, 07:04:32 PM
Quote
Elon Musk’s Enemy, USAID, Was Investigating Starlink’s Contracts in Ukraine
Post by: bucket on February 05, 2025, 07:09:45 PM
1. He loves America
2. He's going to use all of the data that he's collecting to create the biggest, most powerful AI system
3. He wants to be the Mad King
4. Corporate tax breaks
5. This is a beta test and he's going to contract his services to other countries to make them more financially efficient
6. He's a double agent
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:14:29 PM
Does anyone have any idea what Elon's motivations are for dumping $300 million on the election and then totally reshaping our government? These are my best guesses.I think number one is that he genuinely wants to land on Mars. I’m not saying that those other things aren’t deadly accurate as well, but I truly believe that his number one goal is putting a rough ridin' rocket on Mars and thereby do his part in scattering humanity throughout the solar system and through the stars with the goal of trying to ensure that humanity continues. I think he wants a statue of Elon Musk in the Alpha Centauri solar system on some rough ridin' planet and be universally regarded as the guy who saved humanity, all while an AI version of himself watches on and dutifully guides them.
1. He loves America
2. He's going to use all of the data that he's collecting to create the biggest, most powerful AI system
3. He wants to be the Mad King
4. Corporate tax breaks
5. This is a beta test and he's going to contract his services to other countries to make them more financially efficient
6. He's a double agent
I’m not certain humanity worthy of continuing “forever.”
Post by: bucket on February 05, 2025, 07:16:20 PM
Does anyone have any idea what Elon's motivations are for dumping $300 million on the election and then totally reshaping our government? These are my best guesses.I think number one is that he genuinely wants to land on Mars. I’m not saying that those other things aren’t deadly accurate as well, but I truly believe that his number one goal is putting a rough ridin' rocket on Mars and thereby do his part in scattering humanity throughout the solar system and through the stars with the goal of trying to ensure that humanity continues. I think he wants a statue of Elon Musk in the Alpha Centauri solar system on some rough ridin' planet and be universally regarded as the guy who saved humanity, all while an AI version of himself watches on and dutifully guides them.
1. He loves America
2. He's going to use all of the data that he's collecting to create the biggest, most powerful AI system
3. He wants to be the Mad King
4. Corporate tax breaks
5. This is a beta test and he's going to contract his services to other countries to make them more financially efficient
6. He's a double agent
I’m not certain humanity worthy of continuing “forever.”
How does all of this help him accomplish that goal? Cuts from other programs means more government funding for NASA/SpaceX?
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:16:44 PM
Future training for AI will likely come from non-written sources, such as but not limited to dash cams, sensor data from automatic cars, sensor data from rockets, sensor data from satellites, data from autonomous robots….
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:19:31 PM
Yep. That’s what started all of this for him. He was fighting against massive amounts of regulation and a lot of entrenched laws and regulation designed to protect legacy defense contractors. Covid shook him up a whole bunch because it was throwing a wrench in his plans for the cash cows that he needed for the two passions in his life first being the inner planetary travel, and all that save humanity stuff in the second from what I can deduce is his own personal agenda with his own AI model and all of the future sources of training data for that. Then he had a kid come out as trans and seems like he just sort of lost his mind and got out of his lane. So then he emerges from Covid and this drama with a kid being trans and he still seems to be effective with his company, but we have this extra layer of horse crap to deal with now too.Does anyone have any idea what Elon's motivations are for dumping $300 million on the election and then totally reshaping our government? These are my best guesses.I think number one is that he genuinely wants to land on Mars. I’m not saying that those other things aren’t deadly accurate as well, but I truly believe that his number one goal is putting a rough ridin' rocket on Mars and thereby do his part in scattering humanity throughout the solar system and through the stars with the goal of trying to ensure that humanity continues. I think he wants a statue of Elon Musk in the Alpha Centauri solar system on some rough ridin' planet and be universally regarded as the guy who saved humanity, all while an AI version of himself watches on and dutifully guides them.
1. He loves America
2. He's going to use all of the data that he's collecting to create the biggest, most powerful AI system
3. He wants to be the Mad King
4. Corporate tax breaks
5. This is a beta test and he's going to contract his services to other countries to make them more financially efficient
6. He's a double agent
I’m not certain humanity worthy of continuing “forever.”
How does all of this help him accomplish that goal? More government funding for NASA/SpaceX via cuts?
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:21:07 PM
And since he is not a genius, I don’t feel the need to automatically reject everything he does for fear that it is part of his master genius plan of evil .
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:23:35 PM
When I say there are some things that I like that he does they basically tell me oh my gosh, you can’t let him do anything otherwise he’s gonna take over the world like Dr. evil or something because everything he does is part of his master evil genius plan.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 05, 2025, 07:26:01 PM
Lots of liberals seem to be very conflicted about Elon. Many tell me that he is not a genius, and really it’s almost all of them that I talk to tell me that Elon is not a genius. Then there are quite a few that will even tell me that they don’t think he’s actually very smart.
When I say there are some things that I like that he does they basically tell me oh my gosh, you can’t let him do anything otherwise he’s gonna take over the world like Dr. evil or something because everything he does is part of his master evil genius plan.
There is nothing genius about what he's doing. He would be thrown in prison for doing it if we had any other president.
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:30:10 PM
Lots of liberals seem to be very conflicted about Elon. Many tell me that he is not a genius, and really it’s almost all of them that I talk to tell me that Elon is not a genius. Then there are quite a few that will even tell me that they don’t think he’s actually very smart.
When I say there are some things that I like that he does they basically tell me oh my gosh, you can’t let him do anything otherwise he’s gonna take over the world like Dr. evil or something because everything he does is part of his master evil genius plan.
There is nothing genius about what he's doing. He would be thrown in prison for doing it if we had any other president.
I don’t think presidents can do that, but I am not a political scientist, nor am I a criminal lawyer.
This stuff will all work its way through the courts and we’ll see.
Post by: bucket on February 05, 2025, 07:30:54 PM
And since he is not a genius, I don’t feel the need to automatically reject everything he does for fear that it is part of his master genius plan of evil .
It alarms me that we would hand the keys to the government to someone with questionable motives.
Post by: CNS on February 05, 2025, 07:32:10 PM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:37:12 PM
He will be pardoned, you guys. Any criminal activity that comes up will mean nothing. Before don is done, he will blanket pardon those involved. Elon will be doing this bullshit for 4 yrs.I completely agree
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:37:55 PM
I really am trying to be authentic here and not be snarky or sarcastic, but you really need to read more history, my manAnd since he is not a genius, I don’t feel the need to automatically reject everything he does for fear that it is part of his master genius plan of evil .
It alarms me that we would hand the keys to the government to someone with questionable motives.
Post by: bucket on February 05, 2025, 07:42:21 PM
I really am trying to be authentic here and not be snarky or sarcastic, but you really need to read more history, my manAnd since he is not a genius, I don’t feel the need to automatically reject everything he does for fear that it is part of his master genius plan of evil .
It alarms me that we would hand the keys to the government to someone with questionable motives.
From my POV, this is unprecedented. What would you compare it to? Authoritarian governments, sure. Has this ended well?
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:45:21 PM
Since it’s unprecedented, there’s nothing to compare it toI really am trying to be authentic here and not be snarky or sarcastic, but you really need to read more history, my manAnd since he is not a genius, I don’t feel the need to automatically reject everything he does for fear that it is part of his master genius plan of evil .
It alarms me that we would hand the keys to the government to someone with questionable motives.
From my POV, this is unprecedented. What would you compare it to? Authoritarian governments, sure. Has this ended well?
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:47:27 PM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:50:15 PM
Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
I don’t say that to suggest that we should take our foot off the gas in our effort to ensure civil liberties . I say that to gain some perspective about how close we are or how far we are from authoritarianism.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 05, 2025, 07:50:39 PM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:51:35 PM
I honestly don't think the United States survives 4 years of this.That’s what I said before Trump’s first term
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:52:39 PM
The only news I would consume was to read AP news .
I was a rough ridin' mess
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2025, 07:53:29 PM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:53:51 PM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:55:10 PM
All the restraints of 1.0 are gone, there is nothing but lapdogs and vultures left.There’s plenty still there. The entire CIA is still in place and so are the CIA’s legacy defense contractor allies.
Democrats are pretty close to having a majority in the house and if the country doesn’t respond well to do and Elon and all that stuff it’s likely that they could win the house back in two years .
And Trump is super old. Ask yourself how old was my grandpa when he died.?
Post by: wetwillie on February 05, 2025, 07:56:34 PM
I honestly don't think the United States survives 4 years of this.
What does non survival look like
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:56:55 PM
It’s not like the restraints around Trump and the first administration really gave two shits about civil liberties or anything like that .
Post by: CHONGS on February 05, 2025, 07:57:02 PM
But one should read up on the words of Curtis Yarvin (aka mencius moldbug) and Peter Thiel (to begin with) to understand Musk's motivations.
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:57:51 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 05, 2025, 07:57:53 PM
https://twitter.com/shellenberger/status/1887282174321152095?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bucket on February 05, 2025, 07:57:59 PM
Since it’s unprecedented, there’s nothing to compare it toI really am trying to be authentic here and not be snarky or sarcastic, but you really need to read more history, my manAnd since he is not a genius, I don’t feel the need to automatically reject everything he does for fear that it is part of his master genius plan of evil .
It alarms me that we would hand the keys to the government to someone with questionable motives.
From my POV, this is unprecedented. What would you compare it to? Authoritarian governments, sure. Has this ended well?
Are we talking about two different things? I'm talking about a government randomly giving total access to an unelected official. You seem to be discussing the comeuppance of political ideology.
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 07:59:10 PM
Look man you said something was unprecedented. I’m just saying that if that’s the case, there’s nothing to compare it to because it’s unprecedented.Since it’s unprecedented, there’s nothing to compare it toI really am trying to be authentic here and not be snarky or sarcastic, but you really need to read more history, my manAnd since he is not a genius, I don’t feel the need to automatically reject everything he does for fear that it is part of his master genius plan of evil .
It alarms me that we would hand the keys to the government to someone with questionable motives.
From my POV, this is unprecedented. What would you compare it to? Authoritarian governments, sure. Has this ended well?
Are we talking about two different things? I'm talking about a government randomly giving total access to an unelected official. You seem to be discussing the comeuppance of political ideology.
Post by: wetwillie on February 05, 2025, 08:01:47 PM
Since it’s unprecedented, there’s nothing to compare it toI really am trying to be authentic here and not be snarky or sarcastic, but you really need to read more history, my manAnd since he is not a genius, I don’t feel the need to automatically reject everything he does for fear that it is part of his master genius plan of evil .
It alarms me that we would hand the keys to the government to someone with questionable motives.
From my POV, this is unprecedented. What would you compare it to? Authoritarian governments, sure. Has this ended well?
Are we talking about two different things? I'm talking about a government randomly giving total access to an unelected official. You seem to be discussing the comeuppance of political ideology.
Was Bessent elected?
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:02:47 PM
No wonder Vindy was part of the “bank run”From Grok:
https://twitter.com/shellenberger/status/1887282174321152095?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote
To assess the likelihood of the accuracy of the tweet by Michael Shellenberger regarding USAID and CIA involvement in Trump's 2019 impeachment, let's break down the elements and evaluate them step by step:
1. **Source Credibility**:
- **Michael Shellenberger** is known for his work as an environmental writer and commentator. While he has made controversial statements in the past, his credibility in political analysis or investigative journalism might be less established than in his primary field of environmental issues. However, his involvement in this specific narrative could suggest access to certain information or resources.
2. **Content Analysis**:
- **USAID's Role**: The tweet claims that USAID, known primarily for its development aid, is actually a significant player in regime change operations globally, with a budget of $40 billion. While USAID does engage in activities that could be interpreted as promoting democracy or governance reform, which might be seen as regime change in some contexts, the claim of it being a central driver of such operations is contentious. Historical evidence shows USAID has been involved in political activities abroad, like in Cuba with the "Cuban Twitter" project, but the extent and intent of these operations are debated.
- **CIA Involvement**: The assertion of CIA involvement in domestic political actions like Trump's impeachment is significant. The CIA is legally restricted from engaging in domestic operations, which makes this claim particularly bold. However, the history of intelligence agencies overstepping their bounds exists, though usually, these are exposed through official investigations or leaks, not social media posts.
- **Impeachment Context**: Trump's impeachment was centered around allegations of abuse of power regarding Ukraine, not directly involving USAID or the CIA in the public narrative. The whistleblower, who was a CIA analyst, reported concerns about Trump's actions, but this was within the realm of Trump's direct interactions with foreign leaders, not through agencies like USAID or CIA orchestrating events.
3. **Corroborating Evidence**:
- The tweet references reporting by Drop Site News and mentions a documentary by German broadcaster NDR, suggesting external validation. However, without direct access to these sources, their credibility and the thoroughness of their investigations are hard to assess. Additionally, the claim of USAID and CIA's role in Trump's impeachment isn't widely reported in mainstream media or official investigations.
4. **Legal and Political Implications**:
- If true, the involvement of USAID and CIA in domestic political manipulation would be highly illegal and would constitute a major scandal. Such actions would likely lead to significant political fallout, investigations, and possibly legal consequences. The absence of such outcomes raises questions about the veracity of these claims.
5. **Public and Expert Reaction**:
- The replies to the tweet show a range of reactions from skepticism to support, but none provide substantive evidence or expert analysis to validate or refute the claims. Public reaction alone isn't a reliable indicator of accuracy.
6. **Historical Precedent**:
- While there are historical precedents of intelligence agencies like the CIA engaging in covert operations abroad, domestic interference, especially in something as high-profile as a presidential impeachment, would be unprecedented in modern times without significant evidence or leaks.
**Conclusion**:
Given the analysis:
- **Low to Moderate Likelihood of Accuracy**: The claims made in the tweet are extraordinary and would require substantial evidence which has not been publicly presented or widely acknowledged. The involvement of USAID in regime change operations abroad is plausible to some extent, but the direct involvement of both USAID and the CIA in the impeachment process of a sitting US president stretches credibility without concrete evidence. The lack of official investigations or mainstream media coverage supporting these claims leans towards skepticism. However, in the realm of political intrigue, where information can be tightly controlled or obscured, one cannot dismiss the possibility entirely, but the burden of proof remains high.
Post by: bucket on February 05, 2025, 08:06:44 PM
Since it’s unprecedented, there’s nothing to compare it toI really am trying to be authentic here and not be snarky or sarcastic, but you really need to read more history, my manAnd since he is not a genius, I don’t feel the need to automatically reject everything he does for fear that it is part of his master genius plan of evil .
It alarms me that we would hand the keys to the government to someone with questionable motives.
From my POV, this is unprecedented. What would you compare it to? Authoritarian governments, sure. Has this ended well?
Are we talking about two different things? I'm talking about a government randomly giving total access to an unelected official. You seem to be discussing the comeuppance of political ideology.
Was Bessent elected?
No but unelected was a poor choice of words. I mean gaining access through established procedures and protocols.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2025, 08:07:15 PM
The guy named his government office after a meme (for the lulz! Haha I'm so hip!), I have no idea how people take him seriously.
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:08:03 PM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:08:54 PM
Also for the record I don't think Elon has a master genius plan, but he's shown to be an absolute dumb crap so I'd like him away from government. He also appears to be extremely petty and vindictive, so I'd like him to be away from anything that allows him to use the government for petty and vindictive purposes. Yes, other people in the government are petty vindictive dumbshits.I like you and you know that I like you.
The guy named his government office after a meme (for the lulz! Haha I'm so hip!), I have no idea how people take him seriously.
But am I understanding you correctly when you say that you wanna make sure that petty and vindictive people are not in Washington ?
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2025, 08:12:42 PM
Also for the record I don't think Elon has a master genius plan, but he's shown to be an absolute dumb crap so I'd like him away from government. He also appears to be extremely petty and vindictive, so I'd like him to be away from anything that allows him to use the government for petty and vindictive purposes. Yes, other people in the government are petty vindictive dumbshits.I like you and you know that I like you.
The guy named his government office after a meme (for the lulz! Haha I'm so hip!), I have no idea how people take him seriously.
But am I understanding you correctly when you say that you wanna make sure that petty and vindictive people are not in Washington ?
You're free to reread the post because I even added a sentence because I knew that would be your response.
Post by: bucket on February 05, 2025, 08:16:21 PM
Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
Not since January 20th
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:17:06 PM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:19:10 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2025, 08:19:29 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 05, 2025, 08:21:41 PM
Oh Pete.No wonder Vindy was part of the “bank run”From Grok:
https://twitter.com/shellenberger/status/1887282174321152095?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkQuote
To assess the likelihood of the accuracy of the tweet by Michael Shellenberger regarding USAID and CIA involvement in Trump's 2019 impeachment, let's break down the elements and evaluate them step by step:
1. **Source Credibility**:
- **Michael Shellenberger** is known for his work as an environmental writer and commentator. While he has made controversial statements in the past, his credibility in political analysis or investigative journalism might be less established than in his primary field of environmental issues. However, his involvement in this specific narrative could suggest access to certain information or resources.
2. **Content Analysis**:
- **USAID's Role**: The tweet claims that USAID, known primarily for its development aid, is actually a significant player in regime change operations globally, with a budget of $40 billion. While USAID does engage in activities that could be interpreted as promoting democracy or governance reform, which might be seen as regime change in some contexts, the claim of it being a central driver of such operations is contentious. Historical evidence shows USAID has been involved in political activities abroad, like in Cuba with the "Cuban Twitter" project, but the extent and intent of these operations are debated.
- **CIA Involvement**: The assertion of CIA involvement in domestic political actions like Trump's impeachment is significant. The CIA is legally restricted from engaging in domestic operations, which makes this claim particularly bold. However, the history of intelligence agencies overstepping their bounds exists, though usually, these are exposed through official investigations or leaks, not social media posts.
- **Impeachment Context**: Trump's impeachment was centered around allegations of abuse of power regarding Ukraine, not directly involving USAID or the CIA in the public narrative. The whistleblower, who was a CIA analyst, reported concerns about Trump's actions, but this was within the realm of Trump's direct interactions with foreign leaders, not through agencies like USAID or CIA orchestrating events.
3. **Corroborating Evidence**:
- The tweet references reporting by Drop Site News and mentions a documentary by German broadcaster NDR, suggesting external validation. However, without direct access to these sources, their credibility and the thoroughness of their investigations are hard to assess. Additionally, the claim of USAID and CIA's role in Trump's impeachment isn't widely reported in mainstream media or official investigations.
4. **Legal and Political Implications**:
- If true, the involvement of USAID and CIA in domestic political manipulation would be highly illegal and would constitute a major scandal. Such actions would likely lead to significant political fallout, investigations, and possibly legal consequences. The absence of such outcomes raises questions about the veracity of these claims.
5. **Public and Expert Reaction**:
- The replies to the tweet show a range of reactions from skepticism to support, but none provide substantive evidence or expert analysis to validate or refute the claims. Public reaction alone isn't a reliable indicator of accuracy.
6. **Historical Precedent**:
- While there are historical precedents of intelligence agencies like the CIA engaging in covert operations abroad, domestic interference, especially in something as high-profile as a presidential impeachment, would be unprecedented in modern times without significant evidence or leaks.
**Conclusion**:
Given the analysis:
- **Low to Moderate Likelihood of Accuracy**: The claims made in the tweet are extraordinary and would require substantial evidence which has not been publicly presented or widely acknowledged. The involvement of USAID in regime change operations abroad is plausible to some extent, but the direct involvement of both USAID and the CIA in the impeachment process of a sitting US president stretches credibility without concrete evidence. The lack of official investigations or mainstream media coverage supporting these claims leans towards skepticism. However, in the realm of political intrigue, where information can be tightly controlled or obscured, one cannot dismiss the possibility entirely, but the burden of proof remains high.
Come on
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:23:02 PM
Dude, I used Grok!Oh Pete.No wonder Vindy was part of the “bank run”From Grok:
https://twitter.com/shellenberger/status/1887282174321152095?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkQuote
To assess the likelihood of the accuracy of the tweet by Michael Shellenberger regarding USAID and CIA involvement in Trump's 2019 impeachment, let's break down the elements and evaluate them step by step:
1. **Source Credibility**:
- **Michael Shellenberger** is known for his work as an environmental writer and commentator. While he has made controversial statements in the past, his credibility in political analysis or investigative journalism might be less established than in his primary field of environmental issues. However, his involvement in this specific narrative could suggest access to certain information or resources.
2. **Content Analysis**:
- **USAID's Role**: The tweet claims that USAID, known primarily for its development aid, is actually a significant player in regime change operations globally, with a budget of $40 billion. While USAID does engage in activities that could be interpreted as promoting democracy or governance reform, which might be seen as regime change in some contexts, the claim of it being a central driver of such operations is contentious. Historical evidence shows USAID has been involved in political activities abroad, like in Cuba with the "Cuban Twitter" project, but the extent and intent of these operations are debated.
- **CIA Involvement**: The assertion of CIA involvement in domestic political actions like Trump's impeachment is significant. The CIA is legally restricted from engaging in domestic operations, which makes this claim particularly bold. However, the history of intelligence agencies overstepping their bounds exists, though usually, these are exposed through official investigations or leaks, not social media posts.
- **Impeachment Context**: Trump's impeachment was centered around allegations of abuse of power regarding Ukraine, not directly involving USAID or the CIA in the public narrative. The whistleblower, who was a CIA analyst, reported concerns about Trump's actions, but this was within the realm of Trump's direct interactions with foreign leaders, not through agencies like USAID or CIA orchestrating events.
3. **Corroborating Evidence**:
- The tweet references reporting by Drop Site News and mentions a documentary by German broadcaster NDR, suggesting external validation. However, without direct access to these sources, their credibility and the thoroughness of their investigations are hard to assess. Additionally, the claim of USAID and CIA's role in Trump's impeachment isn't widely reported in mainstream media or official investigations.
4. **Legal and Political Implications**:
- If true, the involvement of USAID and CIA in domestic political manipulation would be highly illegal and would constitute a major scandal. Such actions would likely lead to significant political fallout, investigations, and possibly legal consequences. The absence of such outcomes raises questions about the veracity of these claims.
5. **Public and Expert Reaction**:
- The replies to the tweet show a range of reactions from skepticism to support, but none provide substantive evidence or expert analysis to validate or refute the claims. Public reaction alone isn't a reliable indicator of accuracy.
6. **Historical Precedent**:
- While there are historical precedents of intelligence agencies like the CIA engaging in covert operations abroad, domestic interference, especially in something as high-profile as a presidential impeachment, would be unprecedented in modern times without significant evidence or leaks.
**Conclusion**:
Given the analysis:
- **Low to Moderate Likelihood of Accuracy**: The claims made in the tweet are extraordinary and would require substantial evidence which has not been publicly presented or widely acknowledged. The involvement of USAID in regime change operations abroad is plausible to some extent, but the direct involvement of both USAID and the CIA in the impeachment process of a sitting US president stretches credibility without concrete evidence. The lack of official investigations or mainstream media coverage supporting these claims leans towards skepticism. However, in the realm of political intrigue, where information can be tightly controlled or obscured, one cannot dismiss the possibility entirely, but the burden of proof remains high.
Come on
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 05, 2025, 08:23:45 PM
I do give them credit. They’re amazing at the shell game that ultimately pumps millions into their pockets.
The GOAT
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:24:27 PM
I'm going to naively disagree. I'd say it's closer to 20%, but I think we have a pretty differing view of humanity in general.Well for sure 50% of them think that about the other 50% of them, or said differently 100% of them think that 50% of them at least are walking pieces of crap. So at a minimum, I think we should trust their own judgment. Let’s just agree on 50%.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 05, 2025, 08:25:51 PM
I don’t care - we are not at Terminator level (yet) so AI is still taking its marching orders from humans (kinda)Dude, I used Grok!Oh Pete.No wonder Vindy was part of the “bank run”From Grok:
https://twitter.com/shellenberger/status/1887282174321152095?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkQuote
To assess the likelihood of the accuracy of the tweet by Michael Shellenberger regarding USAID and CIA involvement in Trump's 2019 impeachment, let's break down the elements and evaluate them step by step:
1. **Source Credibility**:
- **Michael Shellenberger** is known for his work as an environmental writer and commentator. While he has made controversial statements in the past, his credibility in political analysis or investigative journalism might be less established than in his primary field of environmental issues. However, his involvement in this specific narrative could suggest access to certain information or resources.
2. **Content Analysis**:
- **USAID's Role**: The tweet claims that USAID, known primarily for its development aid, is actually a significant player in regime change operations globally, with a budget of $40 billion. While USAID does engage in activities that could be interpreted as promoting democracy or governance reform, which might be seen as regime change in some contexts, the claim of it being a central driver of such operations is contentious. Historical evidence shows USAID has been involved in political activities abroad, like in Cuba with the "Cuban Twitter" project, but the extent and intent of these operations are debated.
- **CIA Involvement**: The assertion of CIA involvement in domestic political actions like Trump's impeachment is significant. The CIA is legally restricted from engaging in domestic operations, which makes this claim particularly bold. However, the history of intelligence agencies overstepping their bounds exists, though usually, these are exposed through official investigations or leaks, not social media posts.
- **Impeachment Context**: Trump's impeachment was centered around allegations of abuse of power regarding Ukraine, not directly involving USAID or the CIA in the public narrative. The whistleblower, who was a CIA analyst, reported concerns about Trump's actions, but this was within the realm of Trump's direct interactions with foreign leaders, not through agencies like USAID or CIA orchestrating events.
3. **Corroborating Evidence**:
- The tweet references reporting by Drop Site News and mentions a documentary by German broadcaster NDR, suggesting external validation. However, without direct access to these sources, their credibility and the thoroughness of their investigations are hard to assess. Additionally, the claim of USAID and CIA's role in Trump's impeachment isn't widely reported in mainstream media or official investigations.
4. **Legal and Political Implications**:
- If true, the involvement of USAID and CIA in domestic political manipulation would be highly illegal and would constitute a major scandal. Such actions would likely lead to significant political fallout, investigations, and possibly legal consequences. The absence of such outcomes raises questions about the veracity of these claims.
5. **Public and Expert Reaction**:
- The replies to the tweet show a range of reactions from skepticism to support, but none provide substantive evidence or expert analysis to validate or refute the claims. Public reaction alone isn't a reliable indicator of accuracy.
6. **Historical Precedent**:
- While there are historical precedents of intelligence agencies like the CIA engaging in covert operations abroad, domestic interference, especially in something as high-profile as a presidential impeachment, would be unprecedented in modern times without significant evidence or leaks.
**Conclusion**:
Given the analysis:
- **Low to Moderate Likelihood of Accuracy**: The claims made in the tweet are extraordinary and would require substantial evidence which has not been publicly presented or widely acknowledged. The involvement of USAID in regime change operations abroad is plausible to some extent, but the direct involvement of both USAID and the CIA in the impeachment process of a sitting US president stretches credibility without concrete evidence. The lack of official investigations or mainstream media coverage supporting these claims leans towards skepticism. However, in the realm of political intrigue, where information can be tightly controlled or obscured, one cannot dismiss the possibility entirely, but the burden of proof remains high.
Come on
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:27:53 PM
Well, that human is ElonI don’t care - we are not at Terminator level (yet) so AI is still taking its marching orders from humans (kinda)Dude, I used Grok!Oh Pete.No wonder Vindy was part of the “bank run”From Grok:
https://twitter.com/shellenberger/status/1887282174321152095?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkQuote
To assess the likelihood of the accuracy of the tweet by Michael Shellenberger regarding USAID and CIA involvement in Trump's 2019 impeachment, let's break down the elements and evaluate them step by step:
1. **Source Credibility**:
- **Michael Shellenberger** is known for his work as an environmental writer and commentator. While he has made controversial statements in the past, his credibility in political analysis or investigative journalism might be less established than in his primary field of environmental issues. However, his involvement in this specific narrative could suggest access to certain information or resources.
2. **Content Analysis**:
- **USAID's Role**: The tweet claims that USAID, known primarily for its development aid, is actually a significant player in regime change operations globally, with a budget of $40 billion. While USAID does engage in activities that could be interpreted as promoting democracy or governance reform, which might be seen as regime change in some contexts, the claim of it being a central driver of such operations is contentious. Historical evidence shows USAID has been involved in political activities abroad, like in Cuba with the "Cuban Twitter" project, but the extent and intent of these operations are debated.
- **CIA Involvement**: The assertion of CIA involvement in domestic political actions like Trump's impeachment is significant. The CIA is legally restricted from engaging in domestic operations, which makes this claim particularly bold. However, the history of intelligence agencies overstepping their bounds exists, though usually, these are exposed through official investigations or leaks, not social media posts.
- **Impeachment Context**: Trump's impeachment was centered around allegations of abuse of power regarding Ukraine, not directly involving USAID or the CIA in the public narrative. The whistleblower, who was a CIA analyst, reported concerns about Trump's actions, but this was within the realm of Trump's direct interactions with foreign leaders, not through agencies like USAID or CIA orchestrating events.
3. **Corroborating Evidence**:
- The tweet references reporting by Drop Site News and mentions a documentary by German broadcaster NDR, suggesting external validation. However, without direct access to these sources, their credibility and the thoroughness of their investigations are hard to assess. Additionally, the claim of USAID and CIA's role in Trump's impeachment isn't widely reported in mainstream media or official investigations.
4. **Legal and Political Implications**:
- If true, the involvement of USAID and CIA in domestic political manipulation would be highly illegal and would constitute a major scandal. Such actions would likely lead to significant political fallout, investigations, and possibly legal consequences. The absence of such outcomes raises questions about the veracity of these claims.
5. **Public and Expert Reaction**:
- The replies to the tweet show a range of reactions from skepticism to support, but none provide substantive evidence or expert analysis to validate or refute the claims. Public reaction alone isn't a reliable indicator of accuracy.
6. **Historical Precedent**:
- While there are historical precedents of intelligence agencies like the CIA engaging in covert operations abroad, domestic interference, especially in something as high-profile as a presidential impeachment, would be unprecedented in modern times without significant evidence or leaks.
**Conclusion**:
Given the analysis:
- **Low to Moderate Likelihood of Accuracy**: The claims made in the tweet are extraordinary and would require substantial evidence which has not been publicly presented or widely acknowledged. The involvement of USAID in regime change operations abroad is plausible to some extent, but the direct involvement of both USAID and the CIA in the impeachment process of a sitting US president stretches credibility without concrete evidence. The lack of official investigations or mainstream media coverage supporting these claims leans towards skepticism. However, in the realm of political intrigue, where information can be tightly controlled or obscured, one cannot dismiss the possibility entirely, but the burden of proof remains high.
Come on
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 05, 2025, 08:32:23 PM
I honestly don't think the United States survives 4 years of this.
What does non survival look like
No longer operating under the constitution.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2025, 08:35:09 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 05, 2025, 08:35:48 PM
Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
Not since January 20th
https://x.com/ABC/status/1887249458598904190
Post by: CNS on February 05, 2025, 08:39:22 PM
Our collective civil liberties at this moment are at the all-time high in the history of the United States of America.
Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
I don’t say that to suggest that we should take our foot off the gas in our effort to ensure civil liberties . I say that to gain some perspective about how close we are or how far we are from authoritarianism.
Pete, to use your analogy, have you ever driven a Tesla? Know what happens when you take your foot off the gas?
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:42:06 PM
Well, technically wouldn’t you say February 5th?Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
Not since January 20th
https://x.com/ABC/status/1887249458598904190
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:45:31 PM
Regenerative breaking???? :lol:Our collective civil liberties at this moment are at the all-time high in the history of the United States of America.
Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
I don’t say that to suggest that we should take our foot off the gas in our effort to ensure civil liberties . I say that to gain some perspective about how close we are or how far we are from authoritarianism.
Pete, to use your analogy, have you ever driven a Tesla? Know what happens when you take your foot off the gas?
Post by: CNS on February 05, 2025, 08:47:13 PM
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 08:48:39 PM
We’re either accelerating or hitting the brake.Glass half full: accelerating or charging the battery
Post by: michigancat on February 05, 2025, 08:57:02 PM
Well, technically wouldn’t you say February 5th?Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
Not since January 20th
https://x.com/ABC/status/1887249458598904190
I mean that was just a single example from today. I'm sure many other groups are worse off than they have been in the past.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2025, 09:18:24 PM
I'm going to naively disagree. I'd say it's closer to 20%, but I think we have a pretty differing view of humanity in general.Well for sure 50% of them think that about the other 50% of them, or said differently 100% of them think that 50% of them at least are walking pieces of crap. So at a minimum, I think we should trust their own judgment. Let’s just agree on 50%.
I will concede that positions of power will manifest this behavior where it may otherwise have been restrained.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 05, 2025, 09:30:50 PM
They’re used to the sloth like mentally incapacitated sock puppet president and his 2pm nappy times
Just can’t handle this pace of operations.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2025, 09:48:22 PM
Well, technically wouldn’t you say February 5th?Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
Not since January 20th
https://x.com/ABC/status/1887249458598904190
I mean that was just a single example from today. I'm sure many other groups are worse off than they have been in the past.
That’s definitely not the way I see it. AI seems to agree with me more than not
Quote
Civil liberties in the United States today are at a complex juncture. While significant progress has been made over centuries, recent developments highlight both advancements and challenges for different demographics.
### **Historical Context**
1. **Foundational Progress**: The Bill of Rights (1791) established core civil liberties, later extended to states via the 14th Amendment. Key milestones include Brown v. Board of Education (1954), the Civil Rights Act (1964), and ongoing LGBTQ+ rights advancements[2][5].
2. **Past Crises**: U.S. history includes severe civil liberties violations, such as Japanese American internment during WWII, McCarthyism, and post-9/11 surveillance under the Patriot Act[10].
### **Current State of Civil Liberties**
1. **Strengths**:
- The U.S. maintains robust protections for freedom of speech, religion, and press[3].
- Legal frameworks continue to protect marginalized groups, though enforcement varies[2][5].
2. **Challenges**:
- Erosion of democratic norms and voting rights is a growing concern. Initiatives like "Project 2025" propose policies that could weaken civil rights enforcement and intimidate voters[1][4][7].
- Rollbacks in areas such as abortion access, LGBTQ+ protections, and immigrant rights have been noted in recent years[6][7].
### **Comparison to Other Eras**
- **Better Than Past Eras**: Compared to periods like slavery, Jim Crow laws, or WWII internment camps, today’s civil liberties are more inclusive and legally protected.
- **Ongoing Threats**: However, the current political climate reflects echoes of earlier authoritarian tendencies, with potential regression in areas like voting rights and anti-discrimination laws[1][4][11].
In summary, while civil liberties today are broader and more inclusive than in most prior eras, they face significant modern threats that could undermine decades of progress.
Sources
[1] Project 2025: Roadmap to Tyranny | ACLU of Michigan https://www.aclumich.org/en/news/project-2025-roadmap-tyranny
[2] Civil Liberties vs Civil Rights | Moss & Colella, P.C. https://www.mosscolella.com/blog/civil-liberties-vs-civil-rights
[3] United States: Country Profile | Freedom House https://freedomhouse.org/country/united-states
[4] Project 2025: What's At Stake for Civil Rights https://civilrights.org/project2025/
[5] Origins of Civil Liberties in the United States: History & Timeline https://study.com/academy/lesson/origins-of-civil-liberties-in-the-united-states-history-timeline.html
[6] Trump Administration Civil and Human Rights Rollbacks https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/
[7] Project 2025, Explained | American Civil Liberties Union https://www.aclu.org/project-2025-explained
[8] ACLU History | American Civil Liberties Union https://www.aclu.org/about/aclu-history
[9] How to Take Action on Inauguration Day and Beyond https://www.aclufl.org/en/news/how-take-action-inauguration-day-and-beyond
[10] Essay: National Government, Crisis, and Civil Liberties https://billofrightsinstitute.org/essays/national-government-crisis-and-civil-liberties
[11] Project 2025 Offers Dystopian View of America https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/project-2025-offers-dystopian-view-of-america
Post by: MakeItRain on February 06, 2025, 03:50:56 AM
Well, technically wouldn’t you say February 5th?Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
Not since January 20th
https://x.com/ABC/status/1887249458598904190
I mean that was just a single example from today. I'm sure many other groups are worse off than they have been in the past.
This conversation in light of Tuesday's crash out is interesting. Maybe I should speak as a mildly interested third party so feelings don't get hurt. Anyway, this y'all have it great narrative is insulting and actual bullshit given we just saw a rollback from civil rights law signed before most of us were born.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/22/trump_federal_contractor_eo/
Quote
In an executive order published today, Trump rescinded several prior executive orders linked to promoting diversity in the federal government and government contractor workforce, with EO 11246, signed in September 1965, the most longstanding order to be scrapped.
The Register Newsletter
Johnson's Equal Employment Opportunity EO prohibited any federal contractor and federally assisted construction contractor/subcontractor doing more than $10,000 in business with the US government from discriminating against employees or applicants on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, or sex. Sexual orientation and gender identity were added by President Barack Obama with EO 13672 in 2014. The latter EO was also plowed under in Trump's action.
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2025, 05:19:33 AM
Well, technically wouldn’t you say February 5th?Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
Not since January 20th
https://x.com/ABC/status/1887249458598904190
I mean that was just a single example from today. I'm sure many other groups are worse off than they have been in the past.
That’s definitely not the way I see it. AI seems to agree with me more than notQuote
Civil liberties in the United States today are at a complex juncture. While significant progress has been made over centuries, recent developments highlight both advancements and challenges for different demographics.
### **Historical Context**
1. **Foundational Progress**: The Bill of Rights (1791) established core civil liberties, later extended to states via the 14th Amendment. Key milestones include Brown v. Board of Education (1954), the Civil Rights Act (1964), and ongoing LGBTQ+ rights advancements[2][5].
2. **Past Crises**: U.S. history includes severe civil liberties violations, such as Japanese American internment during WWII, McCarthyism, and post-9/11 surveillance under the Patriot Act[10].
### **Current State of Civil Liberties**
1. **Strengths**:
- The U.S. maintains robust protections for freedom of speech, religion, and press[3].
- Legal frameworks continue to protect marginalized groups, though enforcement varies[2][5].
2. **Challenges**:
- Erosion of democratic norms and voting rights is a growing concern. Initiatives like "Project 2025" propose policies that could weaken civil rights enforcement and intimidate voters[1][4][7].
- Rollbacks in areas such as abortion access, LGBTQ+ protections, and immigrant rights have been noted in recent years[6][7].
### **Comparison to Other Eras**
- **Better Than Past Eras**: Compared to periods like slavery, Jim Crow laws, or WWII internment camps, today’s civil liberties are more inclusive and legally protected.
- **Ongoing Threats**: However, the current political climate reflects echoes of earlier authoritarian tendencies, with potential regression in areas like voting rights and anti-discrimination laws[1][4][11].
In summary, while civil liberties today are broader and more inclusive than in most prior eras, they face significant modern threats that could undermine decades of progress.
Sources
[1] Project 2025: Roadmap to Tyranny | ACLU of Michigan https://www.aclumich.org/en/news/project-2025-roadmap-tyranny
[2] Civil Liberties vs Civil Rights | Moss & Colella, P.C. https://www.mosscolella.com/blog/civil-liberties-vs-civil-rights
[3] United States: Country Profile | Freedom House https://freedomhouse.org/country/united-states
[4] Project 2025: What's At Stake for Civil Rights https://civilrights.org/project2025/
[5] Origins of Civil Liberties in the United States: History & Timeline https://study.com/academy/lesson/origins-of-civil-liberties-in-the-united-states-history-timeline.html
[6] Trump Administration Civil and Human Rights Rollbacks https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/
[7] Project 2025, Explained | American Civil Liberties Union https://www.aclu.org/project-2025-explained
[8] ACLU History | American Civil Liberties Union https://www.aclu.org/about/aclu-history
[9] How to Take Action on Inauguration Day and Beyond https://www.aclufl.org/en/news/how-take-action-inauguration-day-and-beyond
[10] Essay: National Government, Crisis, and Civil Liberties https://billofrightsinstitute.org/essays/national-government-crisis-and-civil-liberties
[11] Project 2025 Offers Dystopian View of America https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/project-2025-offers-dystopian-view-of-america
I'm sorry but that doesn't refute a single thing I've said with regards to civil liberties being worse for some people today than they have been in the past. You have been given 2 very concrete examples. If you consider abortion a civil liberty that's a pretty significant 3rd example.
Post by: Cire on February 06, 2025, 06:41:03 AM
Post by: Pete on February 06, 2025, 06:44:03 AM
My point was that relative to the history of the United States, things have never been better for civil liberties acrosss the spectrum of inhabitants. On balance. I acknowledge specific exceptions exist.Well, technically wouldn’t you say February 5th?Every single demographic has a better civil liberties situation right now than they have ever had in this country.
Not since January 20th
https://x.com/ABC/status/1887249458598904190
I mean that was just a single example from today. I'm sure many other groups are worse off than they have been in the past.
That’s definitely not the way I see it. AI seems to agree with me more than notQuote
Civil liberties in the United States today are at a complex juncture. While significant progress has been made over centuries, recent developments highlight both advancements and challenges for different demographics.
### **Historical Context**
1. **Foundational Progress**: The Bill of Rights (1791) established core civil liberties, later extended to states via the 14th Amendment. Key milestones include Brown v. Board of Education (1954), the Civil Rights Act (1964), and ongoing LGBTQ+ rights advancements[2][5].
2. **Past Crises**: U.S. history includes severe civil liberties violations, such as Japanese American internment during WWII, McCarthyism, and post-9/11 surveillance under the Patriot Act[10].
### **Current State of Civil Liberties**
1. **Strengths**:
- The U.S. maintains robust protections for freedom of speech, religion, and press[3].
- Legal frameworks continue to protect marginalized groups, though enforcement varies[2][5].
2. **Challenges**:
- Erosion of democratic norms and voting rights is a growing concern. Initiatives like "Project 2025" propose policies that could weaken civil rights enforcement and intimidate voters[1][4][7].
- Rollbacks in areas such as abortion access, LGBTQ+ protections, and immigrant rights have been noted in recent years[6][7].
### **Comparison to Other Eras**
- **Better Than Past Eras**: Compared to periods like slavery, Jim Crow laws, or WWII internment camps, today’s civil liberties are more inclusive and legally protected.
- **Ongoing Threats**: However, the current political climate reflects echoes of earlier authoritarian tendencies, with potential regression in areas like voting rights and anti-discrimination laws[1][4][11].
In summary, while civil liberties today are broader and more inclusive than in most prior eras, they face significant modern threats that could undermine decades of progress.
Sources
[1] Project 2025: Roadmap to Tyranny | ACLU of Michigan https://www.aclumich.org/en/news/project-2025-roadmap-tyranny
[2] Civil Liberties vs Civil Rights | Moss & Colella, P.C. https://www.mosscolella.com/blog/civil-liberties-vs-civil-rights
[3] United States: Country Profile | Freedom House https://freedomhouse.org/country/united-states
[4] Project 2025: What's At Stake for Civil Rights https://civilrights.org/project2025/
[5] Origins of Civil Liberties in the United States: History & Timeline https://study.com/academy/lesson/origins-of-civil-liberties-in-the-united-states-history-timeline.html
[6] Trump Administration Civil and Human Rights Rollbacks https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/
[7] Project 2025, Explained | American Civil Liberties Union https://www.aclu.org/project-2025-explained
[8] ACLU History | American Civil Liberties Union https://www.aclu.org/about/aclu-history
[9] How to Take Action on Inauguration Day and Beyond https://www.aclufl.org/en/news/how-take-action-inauguration-day-and-beyond
[10] Essay: National Government, Crisis, and Civil Liberties https://billofrightsinstitute.org/essays/national-government-crisis-and-civil-liberties
[11] Project 2025 Offers Dystopian View of America https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/project-2025-offers-dystopian-view-of-america
I'm sorry but that doesn't refute a single thing I've said with regards to civil liberties being worse for some people today than they have been in the past. You have been given 2 very concrete examples. If you consider abortion a civil liberty that's a pretty significant 3rd example.
Woman have greater agency than ever before in history. In our lifetimes, women have made enormous strides in attaining careers and leadership. I’m grateful my daughter was born in 2004 and not in 1974.
Homosexuals have had enormous advances in our lifetime.
Ethnic communities have made huge advances in our lifetimes as well.
Too much of the progressive left is a broken record of “how terrible things are.” I refuse to ignore the progress we have made and engage in ingrate pearl clutching and pessimism. We can both celebrate how far we have come and continue to press forward.
I acknowledge that it is right and just to continue to defend and progress on equality.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 06, 2025, 08:43:56 AM
pete i think america has a deplorable enough history when it comes to civil liberties that it will most likely never be okay to rest on our laurils and admire how far we've come. Or, maybe we can, but i don't think heterosexual cisgender white men get to make that call. Rolling back any civil liberties should give anyone pause, full stop.
do you know what year "gay panic" was no longer a viable legal defense for killing someone because their gayness made you so uncomfortble that you lashed out at them in violence? trick question. there is no federal ban on the usage of that defense, and only 21 states (plus washington d.c.) have banned the use of that defense. its quite frankly an embarassment, and definitely not the time to start handing out trophies and achievement awards.
Post by: LickNeckey on February 06, 2025, 08:52:30 AM
i think that says it all
"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"
Post by: bucket on February 06, 2025, 08:57:27 AM
Post by: chum1 on February 06, 2025, 09:20:07 AM
(https://www.dogsonacid.com/attachments/go-ahead-jpg.263820/)
pete i think america has a deplorable enough history when it comes to civil liberties that it will most likely never be okay to rest on our laurils and admire how far we've come. Or, maybe we can, but i don't think heterosexual cisgender white men get to make that call. Rolling back any civil liberties should give anyone pause, full stop.
do you know what year "gay panic" was no longer a viable legal defense for killing someone because their gayness made you so uncomfortble that you lashed out at them in violence? trick question. there is no federal ban on the usage of that defense, and only 21 states (plus washington d.c.) have banned the use of that defense. its quite frankly an embarassment, and definitely not the time to start handing out trophies and achievement awards.
I wasn't going to bother to say it because I thought it was ridiculous that it would need to be said. But, yeah, 100%.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 06, 2025, 09:21:46 AM
Post by: CNS on February 06, 2025, 09:36:48 AM
Its crazy to me how the country can breed such a feeling of patriotism in it's people, but we choose to out group those in that group. We should be taught how to avoid bullshit scarcity thinking based around that. Instead, we are killing off science and discussion.
Post by: wetwillie on February 06, 2025, 09:55:17 AM
Post by: DQ12 on February 06, 2025, 10:44:10 AM
If you are a living breathing human being in America, there should be absolutely zero limitations placed on you compared to any other American. It is wild to me that the right cares so much about legislating things like this.The bolded sentence is a good sentiment, but it's a little crazy, right? We let some "living breathing humans in America" do things all the time that we don't let others in that group do. I can gamble on sports, my 10 year old nephew (although living and breathing) isn't allowed to do that. My sister can write prescriptions, I don't have that freedom. We give veterans better loan terms that aren't available to non-veterans. We limit regular citizens' access to top-secret documents. I don't have an issue with any of that stuff. I think you're talking about the trans sports stuff when you say "limitations that some have that others don't," but is there something else you're referring to?
Its crazy to me how the country can breed such a feeling of patriotism in it's people, but we choose to out group those in that group. We should be taught how to avoid bullshit scarcity thinking based around that. Instead, we are killing off science and discussion.
I also don't know what you mean when you say "we are killing off science and discussion"? Like, in what way?
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 06, 2025, 11:08:53 AM
If you are a living breathing human being in America, there should be absolutely zero limitations placed on you compared to any other American. It is wild to me that the right cares so much about legislating things like this.The bolded sentence is a good sentiment, but it's a little crazy, right? We let some "living breathing humans in America" do things all the time that we don't let others in that group do. I can gamble on sports, my 10 year old nephew (although living and breathing) isn't allowed to do that. My sister can write prescriptions, I don't have that freedom. We give veterans better loan terms that aren't available to non-veterans. We limit regular citizens' access to top-secret documents. I don't have an issue with any of that stuff. I think you're talking about the trans sports stuff when you say "limitations that some have that others don't," but is there something else you're referring to?
Its crazy to me how the country can breed such a feeling of patriotism in it's people, but we choose to out group those in that group. We should be taught how to avoid bullshit scarcity thinking based around that. Instead, we are killing off science and discussion.
I also don't know what you mean when you say "we are killing off science and discussion"? Like, in what way?
those things you are describing are regulations.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 06, 2025, 11:21:43 AM
It's kind of your own little version of The 300 . . . :thumbsup:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 06, 2025, 11:30:34 AM
Post by: wetwillie on February 06, 2025, 12:23:18 PM
Oh . . . and if DOGE ever starts digging into Ukraine, I predict it will be absolutely amazing . . . An Alice in Wonderland level of waste/fraud/abuse
I predict that they will never get access to anything close to the DOD
Post by: CNS on February 06, 2025, 12:28:29 PM
If you are a living breathing human being in America, there should be absolutely zero limitations placed on you compared to any other American. It is wild to me that the right cares so much about legislating things like this.The bolded sentence is a good sentiment, but it's a little crazy, right? We let some "living breathing humans in America" do things all the time that we don't let others in that group do. I can gamble on sports, my 10 year old nephew (although living and breathing) isn't allowed to do that. My sister can write prescriptions, I don't have that freedom. We give veterans better loan terms that aren't available to non-veterans. We limit regular citizens' access to top-secret documents. I don't have an issue with any of that stuff. I think you're talking about the trans sports stuff when you say "limitations that some have that others don't," but is there something else you're referring to?
Its crazy to me how the country can breed such a feeling of patriotism in it's people, but we choose to out group those in that group. We should be taught how to avoid bullshit scarcity thinking based around that. Instead, we are killing off science and discussion.
I also don't know what you mean when you say "we are killing off science and discussion"? Like, in what way?
What I said was pretty broad, but I have to tell you that your response comes across as intentionally obtuse. Normally, when I encounter folks being intentionally obtuse, I assume they are being disingenuous and discussing in bad faith.
That said, you have mentioned many times recently that you are a single-issue voter, so I am assuming you just haven't heard about the elimination, and intention of elimination, of equality programs for minority groups who have historically encountered quite a bit of discrimination in our country. I have loved ones who will be living in a world that has more ability to discriminate against them due to these moves.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-equal-employment-opportunity-revoke-1965-dei-what-it-means/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-equal-employment-opportunity-revoke-1965-dei-what-it-means/)
As for your quesiton about science: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cdc-orders-pullback-new-scientific-papers-involving-its-researchers-source-2025-02-02/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cdc-orders-pullback-new-scientific-papers-involving-its-researchers-source-2025-02-02/) https://apnews.com/article/trump-health-communications-cdc-hhs-fda-1eeca64c1ccc324b31b779a86d3999a4 (https://apnews.com/article/trump-health-communications-cdc-hhs-fda-1eeca64c1ccc324b31b779a86d3999a4)
A portion of my statement is fueled by the fear of what I think is coming based on those involved: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-darren-beattie-state-department/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-darren-beattie-state-department/) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/stephen-miller-named-deputy-chief-of-policy-in-new-trump-administration (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/stephen-miller-named-deputy-chief-of-policy-in-new-trump-administration) https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hate-watch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/ (https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hate-watch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/) https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/jd-vances-ties-to-project-2025-explained-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/jd-vances-ties-to-project-2025-explained-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/)
Post by: chum1 on February 06, 2025, 12:42:18 PM
Post by: Cire on February 06, 2025, 12:49:43 PM
He’s attorneying youIf you are a living breathing human being in America, there should be absolutely zero limitations placed on you compared to any other American. It is wild to me that the right cares so much about legislating things like this.The bolded sentence is a good sentiment, but it's a little crazy, right? We let some "living breathing humans in America" do things all the time that we don't let others in that group do. I can gamble on sports, my 10 year old nephew (although living and breathing) isn't allowed to do that. My sister can write prescriptions, I don't have that freedom. We give veterans better loan terms that aren't available to non-veterans. We limit regular citizens' access to top-secret documents. I don't have an issue with any of that stuff. I think you're talking about the trans sports stuff when you say "limitations that some have that others don't," but is there something else you're referring to?
Its crazy to me how the country can breed such a feeling of patriotism in it's people, but we choose to out group those in that group. We should be taught how to avoid bullshit scarcity thinking based around that. Instead, we are killing off science and discussion.
I also don't know what you mean when you say "we are killing off science and discussion"? Like, in what way?
What I said was pretty broad, but I have to tell you that your response comes across as intentionally obtuse. Normally, when I encounter folks being intentionally obtuse, I assume they are being disingenuous and discussing in bad faith.
That said, you have mentioned many times recently that you are a single-issue voter, so I am assuming you just haven't heard about the elimination, and intention of elimination, of equality programs for minority groups who have historically encountered quite a bit of discrimination in our country. I have loved ones who will be living in a world that has more ability to discriminate against them due to these moves.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-equal-employment-opportunity-revoke-1965-dei-what-it-means/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-equal-employment-opportunity-revoke-1965-dei-what-it-means/)
As for your quesiton about science: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cdc-orders-pullback-new-scientific-papers-involving-its-researchers-source-2025-02-02/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cdc-orders-pullback-new-scientific-papers-involving-its-researchers-source-2025-02-02/) https://apnews.com/article/trump-health-communications-cdc-hhs-fda-1eeca64c1ccc324b31b779a86d3999a4 (https://apnews.com/article/trump-health-communications-cdc-hhs-fda-1eeca64c1ccc324b31b779a86d3999a4)
A portion of my statement is fueled by the fear of what I think is coming based on those involved: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-darren-beattie-state-department/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-darren-beattie-state-department/) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/stephen-miller-named-deputy-chief-of-policy-in-new-trump-administration (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/stephen-miller-named-deputy-chief-of-policy-in-new-trump-administration) https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hate-watch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/ (https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hate-watch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/) https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/jd-vances-ties-to-project-2025-explained-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/jd-vances-ties-to-project-2025-explained-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: CNS on February 06, 2025, 12:54:52 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 06, 2025, 02:07:00 PM
https://twitter.com/secduffy/status/1887558301908426900?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 06, 2025, 02:13:07 PM
For all . . . well, mainly us.
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Post by: MakeItRain on February 06, 2025, 02:24:13 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 06, 2025, 02:28:01 PM
I cannot believe what is happening in this thread, it's stunning and I can't believe what I'm reading is actually real. We have had executive orders in the past week specifically targeting minorities, women, the lgbtq community, and people who don't practice christianity. It's two weeks into a four year administration and we're being told to be happy about the progress of civil rights, literally while there is a specific and targeted effort to not only stop all progress, but roll back previous progress. It's actually more insulting than what the administration and supportive MAGA are saying. And I got called a $!#* for asking clarifying questions. Wild. At least I now have the answer to my question as to how I should view those who are dispassionate about the advancement of civil rights, for everyone.
It's all totally worth it because they deported 8 Guatemalan strawberry pickers and "exposed" a couple of democrat organizations getting federal funds. That last part may or may not even be true, but they say it out loud so the cult can hear it so it doesn't matter if after further review it's not true. Quit your bitching.
Post by: mocat on February 06, 2025, 02:30:15 PM
Post by: DQ12 on February 06, 2025, 02:34:28 PM
I'm not trying to lawyer you. I was trying to understand what you were talking about -- I couldn't tell if your entire post was about trans sports or not. Thank you for clarifying. I hadn't seen that pause on research papers regarding trans/LGBT stuff.If you are a living breathing human being in America, there should be absolutely zero limitations placed on you compared to any other American. It is wild to me that the right cares so much about legislating things like this.The bolded sentence is a good sentiment, but it's a little crazy, right? We let some "living breathing humans in America" do things all the time that we don't let others in that group do. I can gamble on sports, my 10 year old nephew (although living and breathing) isn't allowed to do that. My sister can write prescriptions, I don't have that freedom. We give veterans better loan terms that aren't available to non-veterans. We limit regular citizens' access to top-secret documents. I don't have an issue with any of that stuff. I think you're talking about the trans sports stuff when you say "limitations that some have that others don't," but is there something else you're referring to?
Its crazy to me how the country can breed such a feeling of patriotism in it's people, but we choose to out group those in that group. We should be taught how to avoid bullshit scarcity thinking based around that. Instead, we are killing off science and discussion.
I also don't know what you mean when you say "we are killing off science and discussion"? Like, in what way?
What I said was pretty broad, but I have to tell you that your response comes across as intentionally obtuse. Normally, when I encounter folks being intentionally obtuse, I assume they are being disingenuous and discussing in bad faith.
That said, you have mentioned many times recently that you are a single-issue voter, so I am assuming you just haven't heard about the elimination, and intention of elimination, of equality programs for minority groups who have historically encountered quite a bit of discrimination in our country. I have loved ones who will be living in a world that has more ability to discriminate against them due to these moves.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-equal-employment-opportunity-revoke-1965-dei-what-it-means/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-equal-employment-opportunity-revoke-1965-dei-what-it-means/)
As for your quesiton about science: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cdc-orders-pullback-new-scientific-papers-involving-its-researchers-source-2025-02-02/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cdc-orders-pullback-new-scientific-papers-involving-its-researchers-source-2025-02-02/) https://apnews.com/article/trump-health-communications-cdc-hhs-fda-1eeca64c1ccc324b31b779a86d3999a4 (https://apnews.com/article/trump-health-communications-cdc-hhs-fda-1eeca64c1ccc324b31b779a86d3999a4)
A portion of my statement is fueled by the fear of what I think is coming based on those involved: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-darren-beattie-state-department/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-darren-beattie-state-department/) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/stephen-miller-named-deputy-chief-of-policy-in-new-trump-administration (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/stephen-miller-named-deputy-chief-of-policy-in-new-trump-administration) https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hate-watch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/ (https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hate-watch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/) https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/jd-vances-ties-to-project-2025-explained-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/jd-vances-ties-to-project-2025-explained-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/)
Post by: MakeItRain on February 06, 2025, 02:59:22 PM
I'm not trying to lawyer you. I was trying to understand what you were talking about -- I couldn't tell if your entire post was about trans sports or not. Thank you for clarifying. I hadn't seen that pause on research papers regarding trans/LGBT stuff.If you are a living breathing human being in America, there should be absolutely zero limitations placed on you compared to any other American. It is wild to me that the right cares so much about legislating things like this.The bolded sentence is a good sentiment, but it's a little crazy, right? We let some "living breathing humans in America" do things all the time that we don't let others in that group do. I can gamble on sports, my 10 year old nephew (although living and breathing) isn't allowed to do that. My sister can write prescriptions, I don't have that freedom. We give veterans better loan terms that aren't available to non-veterans. We limit regular citizens' access to top-secret documents. I don't have an issue with any of that stuff. I think you're talking about the trans sports stuff when you say "limitations that some have that others don't," but is there something else you're referring to?
Its crazy to me how the country can breed such a feeling of patriotism in it's people, but we choose to out group those in that group. We should be taught how to avoid bullshit scarcity thinking based around that. Instead, we are killing off science and discussion.
I also don't know what you mean when you say "we are killing off science and discussion"? Like, in what way?
What I said was pretty broad, but I have to tell you that your response comes across as intentionally obtuse. Normally, when I encounter folks being intentionally obtuse, I assume they are being disingenuous and discussing in bad faith.
That said, you have mentioned many times recently that you are a single-issue voter, so I am assuming you just haven't heard about the elimination, and intention of elimination, of equality programs for minority groups who have historically encountered quite a bit of discrimination in our country. I have loved ones who will be living in a world that has more ability to discriminate against them due to these moves.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-equal-employment-opportunity-revoke-1965-dei-what-it-means/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-equal-employment-opportunity-revoke-1965-dei-what-it-means/)
As for your quesiton about science: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cdc-orders-pullback-new-scientific-papers-involving-its-researchers-source-2025-02-02/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cdc-orders-pullback-new-scientific-papers-involving-its-researchers-source-2025-02-02/) https://apnews.com/article/trump-health-communications-cdc-hhs-fda-1eeca64c1ccc324b31b779a86d3999a4 (https://apnews.com/article/trump-health-communications-cdc-hhs-fda-1eeca64c1ccc324b31b779a86d3999a4)
A portion of my statement is fueled by the fear of what I think is coming based on those involved: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-darren-beattie-state-department/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-darren-beattie-state-department/) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/stephen-miller-named-deputy-chief-of-policy-in-new-trump-administration (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/stephen-miller-named-deputy-chief-of-policy-in-new-trump-administration) https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hate-watch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/ (https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hate-watch/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails/) https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/jd-vances-ties-to-project-2025-explained-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/jd-vances-ties-to-project-2025-explained-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/)
I hope that trump voters would ask themselves why there would be a need to pause research. Wouldn't they like data to confirm their beliefs on LGBT? It seems to me that you'd only want research to stop because you know that there is no objective data that can be used to justify the ostracization of an entire community of people. It's not like his supporters would believe or care about the research anyway. It's simple political censorship.
Post by: Cire on February 06, 2025, 03:09:29 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 06, 2025, 03:29:48 PM
That's some true hate for America and for your fellow citizens who subjected to their criminal ways on a daily basis.
Sad - but even worse, absolute pinnacle #blueanon
But we have to recall (for example) a few years back, #blueanon was protesting as ICE was breaking up a child sex trafficking operation.
Insert rank and file #blueanon in multiple #blueanon generational strongholds assailing various boards and mayors for unleashing illegal immigrants into their communities, with no regard whatsoever for the tax paying American citizens.
FYI- The tax impact of illegals is so vastly overstated, they are a net loser, by factors of tens of billions of dollars.
Post by: chum1 on February 06, 2025, 03:41:48 PM
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:on5oeywiqx32fh2zau473wz6/bafkreiaafustjt4pfhbslzqthjafilvb65ercml7rkfi5gvhrcfkkqc6be@jpeg)
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 06, 2025, 03:52:46 PM
Well, that's one hell of a coincidence
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:on5oeywiqx32fh2zau473wz6/bafkreiaafustjt4pfhbslzqthjafilvb65ercml7rkfi5gvhrcfkkqc6be@jpeg)
I'm sick of you guys calling these guys racists. Just because you don't like racists doesn't mean they are racists.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 06, 2025, 03:56:55 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 06, 2025, 04:00:15 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 06, 2025, 04:46:52 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 06, 2025, 05:15:57 PM
A place that even the most ardent environmentalists admitted has been brutal on the nearby avian and reptile population.
Potentially $1.6 billion in DOE loan guarantees . . . that probably won't be repaid.
Post by: LickNeckey on February 06, 2025, 07:20:12 PM
especially the racists
Post by: LickNeckey on February 06, 2025, 08:31:24 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2025, 08:54:30 PM
https://www.cjonline.com/story/news/politics/government/2025/02/04/trump-musk-shutter-usaid-and-food-for-peace-a-proud-kansas-legacy/78180304007/
Damn, Roger Marshall really sucks
Post by: LickNeckey on February 06, 2025, 08:59:03 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 06, 2025, 09:08:13 PM
https://www.cjonline.com/story/news/politics/government/2025/02/04/trump-musk-shutter-usaid-and-food-for-peace-a-proud-kansas-legacy/78180304007/
Damn, Roger Marshall really sucks
Yeah, hopefully he's the worst senator we will ever have.
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 06, 2025, 10:04:13 PM
Anyone want to guess what percent of the US federal budget goes to companies owned by Elon Musk?
Glad he's here to help us get rid of that waste!
Post by: Cire on February 07, 2025, 08:34:47 AM
Lmao
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Post by: cfbandyman on February 07, 2025, 09:40:55 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250207/17b92a698b4ac6b8c06f726e8afce312.jpg)
Lmao
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Where is this this juicy nug from
Post by: cfbandyman on February 07, 2025, 09:43:23 AM
https://www.cjonline.com/story/news/politics/government/2025/02/04/trump-musk-shutter-usaid-and-food-for-peace-a-proud-kansas-legacy/78180304007/
Damn, Roger Marshall really sucks
Yeah, hopefully he's the worst senator we will ever have.
They all allow it, eff em all
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 07, 2025, 09:56:39 AM
USAID is .7% of the US federal budget. A lot of it goes to poor people, AIDS treatments, etc. You know, the stuff Jesus cared about. And if 10% of that is cut, that would wipe away .07% of the US federal budget.
Anyone want to guess what percent of the US federal budget goes to companies owned by Elon Musk?
Glad he's here to help us get rid of that waste!
They're being brought back under the direct control of the State Department, as they should be, and should have always been. That's the point.
There's a reason a whose who of Dem grifters showed up at the door like an old timey bank run.
Post by: Cire on February 07, 2025, 12:26:43 PM
I guess we’ll see soon!USAID is .7% of the US federal budget. A lot of it goes to poor people, AIDS treatments, etc. You know, the stuff Jesus cared about. And if 10% of that is cut, that would wipe away .07% of the US federal budget.
Anyone want to guess what percent of the US federal budget goes to companies owned by Elon Musk?
Glad he's here to help us get rid of that waste!
They're being brought back under the direct control of the State Department, as they should be, and should have always been. That's the point.
There's a reason a whose who of Dem grifters showed up at the door like an old timey bank run.
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 07, 2025, 12:29:44 PM
Absolutely amazing.
Post by: Cire on February 07, 2025, 12:57:13 PM
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Post by: wetwillie on February 07, 2025, 01:39:08 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 07, 2025, 01:53:35 PM
Haha what is judiciary GOP twitter
Pretty sure it's Jim Jordan.
Post by: wetwillie on February 07, 2025, 01:58:21 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 07, 2025, 02:05:55 PM
Post by: Cire on February 07, 2025, 02:47:18 PM
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Post by: Pete on February 07, 2025, 04:15:26 PM
USAID is .7% of the US federal budget. A lot of it goes to poor people, AIDS treatments, etc. You know, the stuff Jesus cared about. And if 10% of that is cut, that would wipe away .07% of the US federal budget.You’re not wrong about any of this.
Anyone want to guess what percent of the US federal budget goes to companies owned by Elon Musk?
Glad he's here to help us get rid of that waste!
One clarifying point about the money that the government spends on SpaceX is that the other available alternatives are around 100 to 1000 times more expensive depending upon which service is being offered. I’m not exaggerating. He’s saving us a fortune relative to united launch alliance, which is Boeing, Lockheed Martin and other legacy defense contractors.
Post by: Cire on February 07, 2025, 04:35:06 PM
eff them disabled kids
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Post by: chum1 on February 07, 2025, 04:37:05 PM
Quote
This Bloomberg piece about another dodgy DOGE-bro -- the one aka "BIg Balls" -- starts with him getting fired for leaking information at a data security firm.
It ends with, no surprise, a reference to The Daily Stormer
https://bsky.app/profile/bgrueskin.bsky.social/post/3lhmjaeewic2r
Post by: wetwillie on February 07, 2025, 04:38:27 PM
Post by: Cire on February 07, 2025, 04:52:41 PM
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 07, 2025, 05:44:44 PM
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Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 07, 2025, 08:11:40 PM
Post by: CNS on February 07, 2025, 08:12:43 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 07, 2025, 09:49:52 PM
Dax you are like seriously and literally sucking your own dickYou are pinnacle BIG MAD 24/7/365
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Post by: LickNeckey on February 07, 2025, 10:51:35 PM
jfc
Post by: steve dave on February 08, 2025, 12:14:24 AM
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Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 08, 2025, 06:42:42 AM
Post by: wetwillie on February 08, 2025, 07:23:44 AM
Post by: chum1 on February 08, 2025, 10:55:10 AM
Post by: Pete on February 08, 2025, 11:08:28 AM
Post by: Pete on February 08, 2025, 11:10:20 AM
Clearer than ever to me now that Trump and Republicans are letting Musk be the bad guy so that they can do their favorite thing in the world and deliver more tax cuts for rich people.I agree.
I want desperately to believe that we really will cut $1 trillion and then being in a position to smartly reinvest in federal spending in a way that makes sense in this day and age given the challenges that are of the highest priority to our population and be freed from the burden of the legacy of the massive bureaucracy That has grown over the decades and decade.
But unfortunately, Republicans are going to Republican .
Post by: Pete on February 08, 2025, 11:12:29 AM
Social security in the sightsIt’s difficult to envision a scenario where they do not have to start rolling back benefits. They’re going to need to make it a very clear cut calculation based upon what you paid in, and set the minimums at an ever reducing rate until basically our kids get nothing.
I do not like any of this.
Post by: Justwin on February 08, 2025, 11:19:01 AM
Social security in the sightsIt’s difficult to envision a scenario where they do not have to start rolling back benefits. They’re going to need to make it a very clear cut calculation based upon what you paid in, and set the minimums at an ever reducing rate until basically our kids get nothing.
I do not like any of this.
They need to give people an option to opt out at a certain age, say 40 years old. If you opt out, you don't ever get anything from Social Security, but you get to keep your future contributions (yours and your employers). Social Security gets to keep your previous contributions. You can make there be a minimum net worth requirement, say $1,000,000 if you want to prevent idiots from having nothing when they retire.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 08, 2025, 11:20:20 AM
Post by: Justwin on February 08, 2025, 11:22:46 AM
If they are going to do anything to social security, just pull the plug. Stop all payments and stop the FICA tax.
Common ground!
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 08, 2025, 11:24:01 AM
If they are going to do anything to social security, just pull the plug. Stop all payments and stop the FICA tax.
Common ground!
:cheers:
Anything else is completely immoral.
Post by: Pete on February 08, 2025, 11:33:22 AM
I think we have threads colliding with similar ideas, but this one is very interesting to meSocial security in the sightsIt’s difficult to envision a scenario where they do not have to start rolling back benefits. They’re going to need to make it a very clear cut calculation based upon what you paid in, and set the minimums at an ever reducing rate until basically our kids get nothing.
I do not like any of this.
They need to give people an option to opt out at a certain age, say 40 years old. If you opt out, you don't ever get anything from Social Security, but you get to keep your future contributions (yours and your employers). Social Security gets to keep your previous contributions. You can make there be a minimum net worth requirement, say $1,000,000 if you want to prevent idiots from having nothing when they retire.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 08, 2025, 11:34:45 AM
Post by: Justwin on February 08, 2025, 11:37:10 AM
Let's just let people opt out of any tax they don't like.
You would have to pay the tax until you are 40 and then would also receive no benefits from those taxes.
Do you not think this would be a good deal for Social Security?
Post by: Pete on February 08, 2025, 11:38:04 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 08, 2025, 11:50:58 AM
Let's just let people opt out of any tax they don't like.
You would have to pay the tax until you are 40 and then would also receive no benefits from those taxes.
Do you not think this would be a good deal for Social Security?
JW, I have no idea, I probably shouldn't have chimed in at all.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 08, 2025, 01:23:03 PM
Clearer than ever to me now that Trump and Republicans are letting Musk be the bad guy so that they can do their favorite thing in the world and deliver more tax cuts for rich people.I agree.
I want desperately to believe that we really will cut $1 trillion and then being in a position to smartly reinvest in federal spending in a way that makes sense in this day and age given the challenges that are of the highest priority to our population and be freed from the burden of the legacy of the massive bureaucracy That has grown over the decades and decade.
But unfortunately, Republicans are going to Republican .
Saying you would like to cut $1 trillion from the federal budget but you aren’t going to touch the pentagon is insane.
Post by: Cire on February 08, 2025, 01:29:47 PM
And they don’t want to compensate us.
Gilded age. Everyone thought MAGA meant 1955 but really it’s 1895
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Post by: wetwillie on February 08, 2025, 02:02:58 PM
Clearer than ever to me now that Trump and Republicans are letting Musk be the bad guy so that they can do their favorite thing in the world and deliver more tax cuts for rich people.I agree.
I want desperately to believe that we really will cut $1 trillion and then being in a position to smartly reinvest in federal spending in a way that makes sense in this day and age given the challenges that are of the highest priority to our population and be freed from the burden of the legacy of the massive bureaucracy That has grown over the decades and decade.
But unfortunately, Republicans are going to Republican .
Saying you would like to cut $1 trillion from the federal budget but you aren’t going to touch the pentagon is insane.
Touching the pentagons budget is hazardous for presidents health
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 08, 2025, 03:11:31 PM
Note to viewers (again) GAO said $236 billion went to suspicious recipients in FFY ‘23
Pentagon - 7 straight failed audits
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1888314848477376744?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 08, 2025, 03:13:47 PM
https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1887218902381289510?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 08, 2025, 03:29:31 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 08, 2025, 03:40:50 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 08, 2025, 03:51:19 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 08, 2025, 04:24:48 PM
I can only assume at this point that #blueanongE imbibes at a prolific rate both drugs and booze drinks and really doesn't know what's going on in the world outside the #blueaon talking point bubble.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/30/investing/china-hackers-treasury-workstations/index.html
Viewers of this blog will note that #blueanon works diligently to downplay all embarrassing data breaches. Servers tagged up to the Internet with no firewall are no big deal. Hiring Pakistani's to work on Dem congressional work stations . . . no big deal. DNC gets hacked . . . Russians.
So when they tell you it really wasn't that bad . . . know that it was indeed very very bad.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 08, 2025, 06:02:23 PM
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1888080368441704598
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 09, 2025, 01:00:52 AM
Just give us the waste - fraud - abuse (#blueanon/#blueanongE)
Note to viewers (again) GAO said $236 billion went to suspicious recipients in FFY ‘23
Pentagon - 7 straight failed audits
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1888314848477376744?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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dax, if President Elon makes cuts to the military budget, I can't wait to post about it in the Common Ground thread with you. Until then, stopping AIDS treatment to 2 million people, which includes 500,000 kids, doesn't seem like a priority to me. But Trump and Elon are ssssssooooo brilliant, so maybe I'm wrong.
It's absolutely WILD to me that the pro-life party that elected these doofuses have said eff all about children not getting AIDS treatment. Nay, they've cheered it. But maybe I've misunderstood, it's not like the church to be hypocritical.
Post by: Cire on February 09, 2025, 07:35:02 AM
It’s well established that pro life is only pro birth. After that it’s in God’s handsJust give us the waste - fraud - abuse (#blueanon/#blueanongE)
Note to viewers (again) GAO said $236 billion went to suspicious recipients in FFY ‘23
Pentagon - 7 straight failed audits
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1888314848477376744?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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dax, if President Elon makes cuts to the military budget, I can't wait to post about it in the Common Ground thread with you. Until then, stopping AIDS treatment to 2 million people, which includes 500,000 kids, doesn't seem like a priority to me. But Trump and Elon are ssssssooooo brilliant, so maybe I'm wrong.
It's absolutely WILD to me that the pro-life party that elected these doofuses have said eff all about children not getting AIDS treatment. Nay, they've cheered it. But maybe I've misunderstood, it's not like the church to be hypocritical.
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Post by: CNS on February 09, 2025, 08:02:08 AM
It’s well established that pro life is only pro birth. After that it’s in God’s handsJust give us the waste - fraud - abuse (#blueanon/#blueanongE)
Note to viewers (again) GAO said $236 billion went to suspicious recipients in FFY ‘23
Pentagon - 7 straight failed audits
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1888314848477376744?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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dax, if President Elon makes cuts to the military budget, I can't wait to post about it in the Common Ground thread with you. Until then, stopping AIDS treatment to 2 million people, which includes 500,000 kids, doesn't seem like a priority to me. But Trump and Elon are ssssssooooo brilliant, so maybe I'm wrong.
It's absolutely WILD to me that the pro-life party that elected these doofuses have said eff all about children not getting AIDS treatment. Nay, they've cheered it. But maybe I've misunderstood, it's not like the church to be hypocritical.
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Single issue voting.
Post by: DQ12 on February 09, 2025, 08:12:07 AM
I do think it’s the US government’s job to prohibit its citizens from affirmatively killing other innocent human beings.
I don’t think there’s an inconsistency there.
Post by: wetwillie on February 09, 2025, 08:32:08 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 09, 2025, 09:44:26 AM
I don’t think it’s the US government’s job/responsibility to fund the eradication of disease throughout the world. Working to reduce AIDS in Uganda (and every other disease everywhere else) is certainly a noble thing to do, but I don’t think we’re necessarily obliged to do that.
I do think it’s the US government’s job to prohibit its citizens from affirmatively killing other innocent human beings.
I don’t think there’s an inconsistency there.
I think the frustrating thing that I find is that the US is big on collective action when it comes to arming and funding wars, if we want to start retreating from that way of engaging the world too then I guess I understand it. But the idea that the United States will just have an infinite amount of power to just act upon the world with no negative consequences is the most insane part of the strategy Trump has embarked upon.
I was not in love with the neoliberal consensus, I think the UN and the myriad international agreements and treaties were imperfect at best, but it at least used to mean something and the US at least pretended to follow it. I could of course back it up to Reagan or LBJ or Nixon or some of the wild stuff we've done in the past, but I think the presidents of my adult life tell the story well of how we gave up on international law.
Bush-torture, Iraq, Guantanamo, NSA surveillance, FISA,
Obama- drone strikes/kill lists, triple tapping weddings and funerals, JSOC expansion/consolidation of executive actions, allowing? ordering? his own CIA spy on the Senate investigating, not doing much of anything to re-set and roll back expansion of executive power, not doing anything to reign in settlement construction or make support for Israel contingent on compliance with international law
Trump- undoing the one achievement of the Iran treaty, continuing with drone strikes, giving Israel carte blanche, threatening nuclear war here and there as a treat
Biden- accepted total blame for two decades Afghanistan policy and pulled troops out, but literally everything else was pretty much a total disaster--China, Israel/Gaza, Saudi, Ukraine, Iran, Japan (Nippon steel deal), Korea, all absolute failures of any sort of coherent policy, toothless and impotent
The United States is losing the ability to even craft international agreements because everyone understands that we are an unreliable partner that will blow up pretty much anything depending upon which way the wind blows and we won't actually abide by any international constraint or agreement if we don't think it suits are own short term interest or just want to play domestic politics with it even if it doesn't even make sense to change policy.
We are watching an empire die.
Post by: Cire on February 09, 2025, 09:55:59 AM
Now that we’re leaving, China will take our spot
Post by: bucket on February 09, 2025, 10:02:21 AM
The thing about propping up other parts of the world through food health and education programs is that they promoted cooperation and democracy in those places.
Now that we’re leaving, China will take our spot
Exactly. It's not just saving lives. It's diplomacy. Should we not invest in that and is not an efficient means to do that? That's the government obligation. The saving lives aspect is a great bonus.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 09, 2025, 10:14:08 AM
https://x.com/DeanBaker13/status/1888601650505331143
Post by: chum1 on February 09, 2025, 10:55:29 AM
Post by: wetwillie on February 09, 2025, 10:59:06 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 09, 2025, 11:10:29 AM
He is free to say or believe whatever he wants. We shouldn't forget that it's ultimately the executive and legislative branches that are empowering him.
Sure? But do you really think Trump has a clue?
Post by: chum1 on February 09, 2025, 11:27:55 AM
He is free to say or believe whatever he wants. We shouldn't forget that it's ultimately the executive and legislative branches that are empowering him.
Sure? But do you really think Trump has a clue?
I do. I think it's all coordinated. Republicans and Trump see this as an opportunity to finally get rid of some "entitlement programs." There's no way Trump would be able to bite the bullet and share the spotlight with Musk if he wasn't in on it. We'll find out how long his narcissism will allow it!
Post by: chum1 on February 09, 2025, 11:38:27 AM
All three branches are
From what I've seen, courts thus far are putting a pause on things DOGE is attempting.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 09, 2025, 11:52:14 AM
I don’t think it’s the US government’s job/responsibility to fund the eradication of disease throughout the world. Working to reduce AIDS in Uganda (and every other disease everywhere else) is certainly a noble thing to do, but I don’t think we’re necessarily obliged to do that.
I do think it’s the US government’s job to prohibit its citizens from affirmatively killing other innocent human beings.
I don’t think there’s an inconsistency there.
I think the frustrating thing that I find is that the US is big on collective action when it comes to arming and funding wars, if we want to start retreating from that way of engaging the world too then I guess I understand it. But the idea that the United States will just have an infinite amount of power to just act upon the world with no negative consequences is the most insane part of the strategy Trump has embarked upon.
I was not in love with the neoliberal consensus, I think the UN and the myriad international agreements and treaties were imperfect at best, but it at least used to mean something and the US at least pretended to follow it. I could of course back it up to Reagan or LBJ or Nixon or some of the wild stuff we've done in the past, but I think the presidents of my adult life tell the story well of how we gave up on international law.
Bush-torture, Iraq, Guantanamo, NSA surveillance, FISA,
Obama- drone strikes/kill lists, triple tapping weddings and funerals, JSOC expansion/consolidation of executive actions, allowing? ordering? his own CIA spy on the Senate investigating, not doing much of anything to re-set and roll back expansion of executive power, not doing anything to reign in settlement construction or make support for Israel contingent on compliance with international law
Trump- undoing the one achievement of the Iran treaty, continuing with drone strikes, giving Israel carte blanche, threatening nuclear war here and there as a treat
Biden- accepted total blame for two decades Afghanistan policy and pulled troops out, but literally everything else was pretty much a total disaster--China, Israel/Gaza, Saudi, Ukraine, Iran, Japan (Nippon steel deal), Korea, all absolute failures of any sort of coherent policy, toothless and impotent
The United States is losing the ability to even craft international agreements because everyone understands that we are an unreliable partner that will blow up pretty much anything depending upon which way the wind blows and we won't actually abide by any international constraint or agreement if we don't think it suits are own short term interest or just want to play domestic politics with it even if it doesn't even make sense to change policy.
We are watching an empire die.
Not trying to diminish your post but I read that entire bolded part to the tune and cadence of We Didn’t Start The Fire
Post by: wetwillie on February 09, 2025, 12:11:04 PM
All three branches are
From what I've seen, courts thus far are putting a pause on things DOGE is attempting.
Do you think the Supreme Court will uphold them?
Post by: Kat Kid on February 09, 2025, 01:10:52 PM
I don’t think it’s the US government’s job/responsibility to fund the eradication of disease throughout the world. Working to reduce AIDS in Uganda (and every other disease everywhere else) is certainly a noble thing to do, but I don’t think we’re necessarily obliged to do that.
I do think it’s the US government’s job to prohibit its citizens from affirmatively killing other innocent human beings.
I don’t think there’s an inconsistency there.
I think the frustrating thing that I find is that the US is big on collective action when it comes to arming and funding wars, if we want to start retreating from that way of engaging the world too then I guess I understand it. But the idea that the United States will just have an infinite amount of power to just act upon the world with no negative consequences is the most insane part of the strategy Trump has embarked upon.
I was not in love with the neoliberal consensus, I think the UN and the myriad international agreements and treaties were imperfect at best, but it at least used to mean something and the US at least pretended to follow it. I could of course back it up to Reagan or LBJ or Nixon or some of the wild stuff we've done in the past, but I think the presidents of my adult life tell the story well of how we gave up on international law.
Bush-torture, Iraq, Guantanamo, NSA surveillance, FISA,
Obama- drone strikes/kill lists, triple tapping weddings and funerals, JSOC expansion/consolidation of executive actions, allowing? ordering? his own CIA spy on the Senate investigating, not doing much of anything to re-set and roll back expansion of executive power, not doing anything to reign in settlement construction or make support for Israel contingent on compliance with international law
Trump- undoing the one achievement of the Iran treaty, continuing with drone strikes, giving Israel carte blanche, threatening nuclear war here and there as a treat
Biden- accepted total blame for two decades Afghanistan policy and pulled troops out, but literally everything else was pretty much a total disaster--China, Israel/Gaza, Saudi, Ukraine, Iran, Japan (Nippon steel deal), Korea, all absolute failures of any sort of coherent policy, toothless and impotent
The United States is losing the ability to even craft international agreements because everyone understands that we are an unreliable partner that will blow up pretty much anything depending upon which way the wind blows and we won't actually abide by any international constraint or agreement if we don't think it suits are own short term interest or just want to play domestic politics with it even if it doesn't even make sense to change policy.
We are watching an empire die.
Not trying to diminish your post but I read that entire bolded part to the tune and cadence of We Didn’t Start The Fire
My wife unironically likes the fall out boy remake, which is terrible, but maybe I can do a Ramones style punk version.
Post by: chum1 on February 09, 2025, 01:31:06 PM
All three branches are
From what I've seen, courts thus far are putting a pause on things DOGE is attempting.
Do you think the Supreme Court will uphold them?
I don't think it's a given that they'll side with DOGE.
Post by: Pete on February 10, 2025, 08:03:01 AM
I agree. Kavanah and Amy Comey Barrett might be a thorn in MAGA’s side.All three branches are
From what I've seen, courts thus far are putting a pause on things DOGE is attempting.
Do you think the Supreme Court will uphold them?
I don't think it's a given that they'll side with DOGE.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 10, 2025, 09:23:18 AM
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
Post by: Pete on February 10, 2025, 09:47:02 AM
It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
Post by: Pete on February 10, 2025, 09:48:20 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 10, 2025, 10:00:39 AM
And Dax, don’t get all mad at me for suggesting a common sense approach and prioritization. You know as well as I do that there’s no real money to be made until they rough ridin' gut the department of defense contracts and vendor agreements.
Right, to spend all this time and effort going after the few things we actually charitably do well vs idk, the one thing that we spend more on that the next what, 10 countries combined on doesn't seem politically motivated at all or inefficient to me. Totally legitimate things.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 10, 2025, 10:03:06 AM
KU's indirect rate is around 50%. This is going to be a pretty big hit to their med center.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 10, 2025, 10:07:06 AM
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/trump-says-us-might-have-less-debt-than-thought-2025-02-09/ (https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/trump-says-us-might-have-less-debt-than-thought-2025-02-09/)
Post by: CHONGS on February 10, 2025, 10:18:09 AM
It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 10, 2025, 10:19:16 AM
It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
His entire campaign was based on this. This is all it was ever about. He doesn't care about saving the government money. He wants revenge and to hurt the people that opposed him. Turns out, there is going to be a lot of collateral damage, but he also doesn't care about that. Neither does president Elon.
Post by: michigancat on February 10, 2025, 10:22:29 AM
It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
I mean he probably doesn't want government contracts for his companies scrutinized. So in that respect, he gives a crap about the budget.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 10, 2025, 10:29:01 AM
(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dril9047/images/2/23/DrilCandles.jpeg)
Post by: cfbandyman on February 10, 2025, 10:48:37 AM
this entire exercise is basically just that dril tweet about candles
(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dril9047/images/2/23/DrilCandles.jpeg)
Pretty much lol
Post by: Pete on February 10, 2025, 11:45:45 AM
Relative to the legacy defense contractors he really has nothing to worry about it all his cost per unit measured on any factor obliterates the legacy defense contractorsIt didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
I mean he probably doesn't want government contracts for his companies scrutinized. So in that respect, he gives a crap about the budget.
Post by: Pete on February 10, 2025, 11:49:01 AM
I absolutely acknowledge that he’s quite amused by the current approach, but I do think he and most of the tech oligarchs want to avoid the national financial distress associated with deficit interest payments exceeding tax revenue.It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
My HOPE is that the department of defense is a source for much if not most of that savings. Maga boomers and Maga, Gen X should temper some of the entitlements targeting but millennials and Gen Z are undoubtedly mumped.
Post by: michigancat on February 10, 2025, 11:57:01 AM
Relative to the legacy defense contractors he really has nothing to worry about it all his cost per unit measured on any factor obliterates the legacy defense contractorsIt didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
I mean he probably doesn't want government contracts for his companies scrutinized. So in that respect, he gives a crap about the budget.
that's not what he's evaluating though.
And like, relative to legacy defense contractors most of USAID probably shouldn't have much to worry about, either.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 10, 2025, 12:01:24 PM
I absolutely acknowledge that he’s quite amused by the current approach, but I do think he and most of the tech oligarchs want to avoid the national financial distress associated with deficit interest payments exceeding tax revenue.It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
My HOPE is that the department of defense is a source for much if not most of that savings. Maga boomers and Maga, Gen X should temper some of the entitlements targeting but millennials and Gen Z are undoubtedly mumped.
I don't believe he cares even a little bit about deficit spending. We are shutting down grants in progress for construction of infrastructure, medical studies (with foreign study participants not receiving any care or monitoring for their experimental drugs or procedures), food payments, etc. It would be one thing to alter how funds are distributed, but shutting down ongoing work doesn't end up saving us anything. Those contractors will end up being paid, and we won't end up with any of the product.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 10, 2025, 12:05:28 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 10, 2025, 12:08:33 PM
I realize that the grift had gotten to be so massive and Treasury was just a printing press of no questions asked check writing (thus $9 Trillion in spending we didn't have, so we had to borrow it) . . . but once upon a time, the government used to cancel contracts and grants all the time.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 10, 2025, 12:20:11 PM
I can't imagine what kind of non attentive simp brain you have to be to think that the government doesn't cancel contracts.
I realize that the grift had gotten to be so massive and Treasury was just a printing press of no questions asked check writing (thus $9 Trillion in spending we didn't have, so we had to borrow it) . . . but once upon a time, the government used to cancel contracts and grants all the time.
The government typically cancels a contract when the recipient fails to meet requirements. That is not what this is.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 10, 2025, 12:24:41 PM
Here's what you're just going to need to reconcile yourself with . . . USAID was a cash laundromat of which significatn parts were used to run human trafficking operations, and attack political opponets of the American left.
Had you guys truly stuck to those sorghum programs, and things that actually helped people have food and clean drinking water . . . USAID as you knew it would still be alive and kicking right now. But you turned it into a big slush fund for #blueanon political and social agendas, funneling millions upon millions to grifters.
Insert Samantha Power (who amazingly is worth tens of millions but has only been paid about $180K a year give or take for years) posing with a Soros here.
Post by: michigancat on February 10, 2025, 12:26:54 PM
I absolutely acknowledge that he’s quite amused by the current approach, but I do think he and most of the tech oligarchs want to avoid the national financial distress associated with deficit interest payments exceeding tax revenue.
I think you are being very generous to them considering that the CFPB is at the top of their list to eliminate.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 10, 2025, 12:27:22 PM
Does the government cancel contracts in the face of the discovery of waste-fraud-abuse?
Here's what you're just going to need to reconcile yourself with . . . USAID was a cash laundromat of which significatn parts were used to run human trafficking operations, and attack political opponets of the American left.
Had you guys truly stuck to those sorghum programs, and things that actually helped people have food and clean drinking water . . . USAID as you knew it would still be alive and kicking right now. But you turned it into a big slush fund for #blueanon political and social agendas, funneling millions upon millions to grifters.
Insert Samantha Power (who amazingly is worth tens of millions but has only been paid about $180K a year give or take for years) posing with a Soros here.
No, they typically don't fabricate a whole lot of waste/fraud/abuse in Africa so they can cancel wind and solar construction in America.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 10, 2025, 12:46:08 PM
Does the government cancel contracts in the face of the discovery of waste-fraud-abuse?
Here's what you're just going to need to reconcile yourself with . . . USAID was a cash laundromat of which significatn parts were used to run human trafficking operations, and attack political opponets of the American left.
Had you guys truly stuck to those sorghum programs, and things that actually helped people have food and clean drinking water . . . USAID as you knew it would still be alive and kicking right now. But you turned it into a big slush fund for #blueanon political and social agendas, funneling millions upon millions to grifters.
Insert Samantha Power (who amazingly is worth tens of millions but has only been paid about $180K a year give or take for years) posing with a Soros here.
No, they typically don't fabricate a whole lot of waste/fraud/abuse in Africa so they can cancel wind and solar construction in America.
They're shutting down huge portions of a solar plant in California 15 years early, and the DOE is likely not going to get their loan money back.
So what you're talking about is just more pet projects.
There is no "fabrication" . . . it was a grift for the ages, and many times in places like Africa, USAID was just a cut out for the DOD/CIA.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 10, 2025, 12:48:57 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 10, 2025, 12:55:43 PM
The pet projects were selected through a competitive grant process. It's merit-based. And that's good news if true on the government getting mumped over on their loan.
That's way too overly simplistic.
The aggregators laundered money through to favorites and grifters to the tune of billions of dollars.
Then the ultimate recipient of the funds would then get up and tell people they don't get any Federal money, which is a total and complete lie.
When you have waste-fraud-abuse at this level, things are going to get paused.
I am not at all surprised that you are saying that about the nearly $2 billion the DOE threw down the drain . . . for a facility that even by environmentalist open admission, has ravaged the habitat and the animals that live in it.
Post by: Pete on February 10, 2025, 02:05:52 PM
I was just addressing the hypothetical of doge scrutiny of Elon’s own contracts, where his competitors are legacy defense contractorsRelative to the legacy defense contractors he really has nothing to worry about it all his cost per unit measured on any factor obliterates the legacy defense contractorsIt didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
I mean he probably doesn't want government contracts for his companies scrutinized. So in that respect, he gives a crap about the budget.
that's not what he's evaluating though.
And like, relative to legacy defense contractors most of USAID probably shouldn't have much to worry about, either.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 10, 2025, 02:19:29 PM
The pet projects were selected through a competitive grant process. It's merit-based. And that's good news if true on the government getting mumped over on their loan.
That's way too overly simplistic.
The aggregators laundered money through to favorites and grifters to the tune of billions of dollars.
Then the ultimate recipient of the funds would then get up and tell people they don't get any Federal money, which is a total and complete lie.
When you have waste-fraud-abuse at this level, things are going to get paused.
I am not at all surprised that you are saying that about the nearly $2 billion the DOE threw down the drain . . . for a facility that even by environmentalist open admission, has ravaged the habitat and the animals that live in it.
this might bring back @sys
Post by: Justwin on February 10, 2025, 02:26:18 PM
I absolutely acknowledge that he’s quite amused by the current approach, but I do think he and most of the tech oligarchs want to avoid the national financial distress associated with deficit interest payments exceeding tax revenue.It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
My HOPE is that the department of defense is a source for much if not most of that savings. Maga boomers and Maga, Gen X should temper some of the entitlements targeting but millennials and Gen Z are undoubtedly mumped.
So I guess I'll ask a third time. Where are you seeing net interest payments are going to exceed tax revenue?
The CBO long-term estimate for 2054 is that net interest payments would be about 1/3 of revenue.
Post by: Pete on February 10, 2025, 03:39:02 PM
What is the assumed interest rate in that?I absolutely acknowledge that he’s quite amused by the current approach, but I do think he and most of the tech oligarchs want to avoid the national financial distress associated with deficit interest payments exceeding tax revenue.It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
My HOPE is that the department of defense is a source for much if not most of that savings. Maga boomers and Maga, Gen X should temper some of the entitlements targeting but millennials and Gen Z are undoubtedly mumped.
So I guess I'll ask a third time. Where are you seeing net interest payments are going to exceed tax revenue?
The CBO long-term estimate for 2054 is that net interest payments would be about 1/3 of revenue.
Post by: MakeItRain on February 10, 2025, 04:25:49 PM
Wouldn't you know it, Elon thinks possibly the most successful government program in US history is full of FRAUD!
https://x.com/DeanBaker13/status/1888601650505331143
Alex Cole's sue of the word now in this tweet is very funny to me.
Post by: Cire on February 10, 2025, 06:52:34 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 10, 2025, 07:33:51 PM
https://bsky.app/profile/nycsouthpaw.bsky.social/post/3lhu2pjvnp22zI mean sure tons of food went to spoil for no reason, but at least we don’t have condoms blowing people up anymore or ever!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: cfbandyman on February 10, 2025, 08:11:07 PM
https://bsky.app/profile/nycsouthpaw.bsky.social/post/3lhu2pjvnp22zI mean sure tons of food went to spoil for no reason, but at least we don’t have condoms blowing people up anymore or ever!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stalin is fist pumping from hell
Post by: Justwin on February 10, 2025, 08:14:34 PM
What is the assumed interest rate in that?I absolutely acknowledge that he’s quite amused by the current approach, but I do think he and most of the tech oligarchs want to avoid the national financial distress associated with deficit interest payments exceeding tax revenue.It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
My HOPE is that the department of defense is a source for much if not most of that savings. Maga boomers and Maga, Gen X should temper some of the entitlements targeting but millennials and Gen Z are undoubtedly mumped.
So I guess I'll ask a third time. Where are you seeing net interest payments are going to exceed tax revenue?
The CBO long-term estimate for 2054 is that net interest payments would be about 1/3 of revenue.
Their assumption for 10-year Treasury notes in 2054 is 4.4% and on all debt held by the public they assume a 3.8% in interest rate in 2054.
Post by: michigancat on February 10, 2025, 08:22:06 PM
https://x.com/robrousseau/status/1888646181175132306
Post by: Pete on February 10, 2025, 08:33:16 PM
HehIt’s not terrific
https://x.com/robrousseau/status/1888646181175132306
Post by: Cire on February 11, 2025, 06:44:24 AM
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Post by: Cire on February 11, 2025, 06:44:56 AM
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Post by: Pete on February 11, 2025, 07:03:22 AM
Idk maybe this was the point.I have long suspected that the big 2.5 are interested in dividing the world into America/China/Russia segments.
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Post by: Pete on February 11, 2025, 07:07:20 AM
You are correct, and I failed to understand that the projections and predictors I was depending upon were making doom assumptions about implication of BOTH interest rates and debt levels combined. That’s not to say that they are completely wrong, it’s more about the actual level of risk of their doom scenarios being realized. I still favor eliminating deficit spending tho.What is the assumed interest rate in that?I absolutely acknowledge that he’s quite amused by the current approach, but I do think he and most of the tech oligarchs want to avoid the national financial distress associated with deficit interest payments exceeding tax revenue.It didn't take long to start unraveling the grift . . . That's why there's so much :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: from #blueanon. Unfortunately they probably won't get to the DOD or be able to target things like Ukraine. I would fully expect that it's a rabbit hole for the ages . . .It’s preposterous that they didn’t start with the DOD. Both the DOD and Ukraine should be prioritized way ahead of the couch coins that they’re going after right now.
https://eko.substack.com/p/override
To me, this implies that the current cutbacks are merely for political effect.
I want to see real action, not just owning the libs.
They are wasting Elon and the doge’s resources by focusing on this crap right now they should be using all available horsepower to analyze the DOD and identify opportunities to cancel contracts and find new vendors who can do it at a fraction of the price. That sort of focus would save exponentially more money than the current app approach.
They're not wasting Musk's resources because this is what Musk wants to focus on. His goal is to wage his culture war, he doesn't give a crap about the budget.
My HOPE is that the department of defense is a source for much if not most of that savings. Maga boomers and Maga, Gen X should temper some of the entitlements targeting but millennials and Gen Z are undoubtedly mumped.
So I guess I'll ask a third time. Where are you seeing net interest payments are going to exceed tax revenue?
The CBO long-term estimate for 2054 is that net interest payments would be about 1/3 of revenue.
Their assumption for 10-year Treasury notes in 2054 is 4.4% and on all debt held by the public they assume a 3.8% in interest rate in 2054.
Post by: Cire on February 11, 2025, 07:40:22 AM
Idk maybe this was the point.I have long suspected that the big 2.5 are interested in dividing the world into America/China/Russia segments.
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Well, congrats
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 08:41:26 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250211/e7b3190b721835880d0759d0e90d02a4.jpg)
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 08:45:25 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250211/42606d71e249223d41e119a880bebeed.jpg)Insert General Ripper talking about mineshaft gap
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Post by: LickNeckey on February 11, 2025, 08:53:02 AM
Hogs at the trough
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250211/e7b3190b721835880d0759d0e90d02a4.jpg)
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those crafty #blueanon libs made Reagan start a group called the International Republican Institute and got him to staff it with Republican Party members just to milk taxpayers
what will they do next?!??!?!
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 08:55:37 AM
Not a soul has argued the gig was not a uniparty endeavor.Hogs at the trough
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250211/e7b3190b721835880d0759d0e90d02a4.jpg)
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those crafty #blueanon libs made Reagan start a group called the International Republican Institute and got him to staff it with Republican Party members just to milk taxpayers
what will they do next?!??!?!
Remember the anti-Trump neocons were welcomed by #blueanon with open arms.
Why don’t you ever get that? LMAO
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Post by: Pete on February 11, 2025, 09:59:31 AM
I was agreeing with you, FWIW.Idk maybe this was the point.I have long suspected that the big 2.5 are interested in dividing the world into America/China/Russia segments.
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Well, congrats
Post by: hjfklmor on February 11, 2025, 10:11:59 AM
Hogs at the trough
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250211/e7b3190b721835880d0759d0e90d02a4.jpg)
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What the eff is this attempting to convey? Are these numbers supposed to foot? What do the lines mean? Consortium for Elections paid itself.. something? This is a Charlie Kelly level graphic that looks impressive but explains nothing at all.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 10:57:10 AM
Hogs at the trough
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250211/e7b3190b721835880d0759d0e90d02a4.jpg)
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What the eff is this attempting to convey? Are these numbers supposed to foot? What do the lines mean? Consortium for Elections paid itself.. something? This is a Charlie Kelly level graphic that looks impressive but explains nothing at all.
They launder money through aggregators - and between NGO's.
This really isn't very hard to understand.
NED for example is absolutely a cutout for the DOD/CIA
NDI is essentially a way to launder money for sweet vacations and trips to top shelf/Wagyu suckling symposiums and conferences. It's board is a whose-who of the #blueanon grift state.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 12:56:36 PM
https://www.devex.com/news/chemonics-settles-with-justice-department-over-subcontractor-fraud-108984
They also had a massive data breach.
“USAID has refused to learn, and they are throwing $17 billion of taxpayer money after a failed business model,” said Adeyi.
https://www.devex.com/news/is-it-business-as-usual-as-usaid-issues-its-latest-5-billion-contract-107333
Post by: LickNeckey on February 11, 2025, 01:04:09 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 11, 2025, 02:14:17 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 11, 2025, 02:46:12 PM
https://x.com/zoenone0none/status/1889364372809728202
LOL. The amount of people taking that $2 is really really high though. You know....morons.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 11, 2025, 02:46:50 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 02:53:10 PM
DoD/CIA is #blueANNON?
You're very upset all of this Lick.
Why? Why is #blueanon fighting government transparency so hard?
You're in massive deflection mode and frankly, it's very :lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 03:30:42 PM
"The Biden Administration should ignore the court" - AOC, 2023
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 03:48:40 PM
The same Jamie Raskin whose wife is a bigger DC grifter than he is? Parlaying her positions at the FR and Treasury to sit on an advisory board of the only trust at the time granted a master account by the FR. A position that granted her an equity stake that she then sold for a nice tidy little profit. They also failed to report said transaction for 8 months.
Raskin also likes to attend events revolving around "reunification" in China . . . hosted by entities controlled by the CCP.
Why does #blueanon continue to allow these types of people to hold power? We've got Schiff out on the circuit making completely unsubstantiated and unbacked claims (as he always does) about Gabbard. He never backs up a thing with any evidence.
Post by: LickNeckey on February 11, 2025, 05:35:36 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 11, 2025, 06:42:14 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/law/s/unMxazuT0v
who elected him???
what a wild video
Post by: michigancat on February 11, 2025, 06:44:20 PM
Post by: mocat on February 11, 2025, 06:54:13 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 11, 2025, 07:05:32 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 11, 2025, 09:28:21 PM
https://bsky.app/profile/joncooper-us.bsky.social/post/3lhwsmk4iac2u
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Post by: LickNeckey on February 11, 2025, 10:00:26 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 10:08:55 PM
https://twitter.com/doge/status/1889437908094042277?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: bucket on February 11, 2025, 10:10:25 PM
https://www.thenerdreich.com/reboot-elon-musk-ceo-dictator-doge/
https://bsky.app/profile/brendannyhan.bsky.social/post/3lhvx77lumk2p
Similar observation but I prefer this.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 10:12:32 PM
Russians under every rock. Anyone who questions their now generational grift is a fascist.
The lashing out is at 14/7 levels.
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2025, 10:14:23 PM
That’s incredible knowing that Democrats ceded their entire establishment to political elite grifters, megacorps and the perpetual war complex.https://www.thenerdreich.com/reboot-elon-musk-ceo-dictator-doge/
https://bsky.app/profile/brendannyhan.bsky.social/post/3lhvx77lumk2p
Similar observation but I prefer this.
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Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2025, 06:09:47 AM
OPM spent a $106 million trying to modernize and failed. So they just kept doing this
https://twitter.com/doge/status/1889437908094042277?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Honestly this seems like something worth addressing but because it comes from musk I assume we're not getting the full story (or are being intentionally misled. Also this seems like something that will take some investment to fix!
https://www.gsa.gov/about-us/newsroom/news-releases/tmf-announces-investments-modernizing-federal-retirement-and-immigration-systems-12032024
https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/retirement-statistics/
https://www.opm.gov/about-us/reports-publications/agency-reports/5-feb-25-rs-processing.pdf
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2025, 08:08:44 AM
When I had to call because information wasn’t in her portal. Forget about calling after about 1:30 Eastern. Nobody was going to answer.
The privatized portion such as 3rd party managed life insurance took about 2-3 weeks.
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Post by: chum1 on February 12, 2025, 08:14:47 AM
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8YPJGD9/
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 08:45:30 AM
He definitely should be scrutinized, but his track record is his teams solving inefficiencies or obstacles that others have insisted on maintaining or ignoring. If nothing else, even his biggest enemies must grant him that.OPM spent a $106 million trying to modernize and failed. So they just kept doing this
https://twitter.com/doge/status/1889437908094042277?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Honestly this seems like something worth addressing but because it comes from musk I assume we're not getting the full story (or are being intentionally misled. Also this seems like something that will take some investment to fix!
https://www.gsa.gov/about-us/newsroom/news-releases/tmf-announces-investments-modernizing-federal-retirement-and-immigration-systems-12032024
https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/retirement-statistics/
https://www.opm.gov/about-us/reports-publications/agency-reports/5-feb-25-rs-processing.pdf
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2025, 08:59:04 AM
He definitely should be scrutinized, but his track record is his teams solving inefficiencies or obstacles that others have insisted on maintaining or ignoring. If nothing else, even his biggest enemies must grant him that.OPM spent a $106 million trying to modernize and failed. So they just kept doing this
https://twitter.com/doge/status/1889437908094042277?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Honestly this seems like something worth addressing but because it comes from musk I assume we're not getting the full story (or are being intentionally misled. Also this seems like something that will take some investment to fix!
https://www.gsa.gov/about-us/newsroom/news-releases/tmf-announces-investments-modernizing-federal-retirement-and-immigration-systems-12032024
https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/retirement-statistics/
https://www.opm.gov/about-us/reports-publications/agency-reports/5-feb-25-rs-processing.pdf
I shared a link showing that federal employee retirement processing was not being ignored.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2025, 09:17:39 AM
The oversight on waste-fruad-abuse runs from zealot level for some stuff, to a complete grifter state on other things. USAID was a grifter state. Ukraine is a Grifter State - that's why #blueanon fiercely opposes auditing.
USAID also not being disbanded, so there is no constitutional crisis (I mean :lol: :lol: :lol: ). It is absolutely 1000% within the purview of the Chief Executive to realign any Federal agency that falls under the Executive Branch.
Bush, Barry and President Full Lid made multiple alignment and structural changes to USAID, unfortunately that only served to expand the USAID Grifter State.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 09:52:27 AM
Give me the cliff notes, man. I don’t have time to read all the rough ridin' links!He definitely should be scrutinized, but his track record is his teams solving inefficiencies or obstacles that others have insisted on maintaining or ignoring. If nothing else, even his biggest enemies must grant him that.OPM spent a $106 million trying to modernize and failed. So they just kept doing this
https://twitter.com/doge/status/1889437908094042277?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Honestly this seems like something worth addressing but because it comes from musk I assume we're not getting the full story (or are being intentionally misled. Also this seems like something that will take some investment to fix!
https://www.gsa.gov/about-us/newsroom/news-releases/tmf-announces-investments-modernizing-federal-retirement-and-immigration-systems-12032024
https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/retirement-statistics/
https://www.opm.gov/about-us/reports-publications/agency-reports/5-feb-25-rs-processing.pdf
I shared a link showing that federal employee retirement processing was not being ignored.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 09:53:34 AM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 09:54:28 AM
No one said it was being ignored, but like with most government things, they throw money at it, and don't really fix it.Dax, as usual you’re not entirely wrong and you’re not entirely right. It would be much more helpful for the conversation if you didn’t bring up a bunch of old crap.
The oversight on waste-fruad-abuse runs from zealot level for some stuff, to a complete grifter state on other things. USAID was a grifter state. Ukraine is a Grifter State - that's why #blueanon fiercely opposes auditing.
USAID also not being disbanded, so there is no constitutional crisis (I mean :lol: :lol: :lol: ). It is absolutely 1000% within the purview of the Chief Executive to realign any Federal agency that falls under the Executive Branch.
Bush, Barry and President Full Lid made multiple alignment and structural changes to USAID, unfortunately that only served to expand the USAID Grifter State.
EDIT: I misread your post you actually did a pretty good job on this one
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2025, 11:06:41 AM
Give me the cliff notes, man. I don’t have time to read all the rough ridin' links!
Quote
The $18.3 million TMF investment will support OPM’s transition away from legacy systems, enabling a comprehensive modernization of the agency’s core infrastructure. This transformation is expected to significantly reduce annual maintenance costs while providing an enhanced customer experience for 2.8 million federal annuitants and survivors.
Also, let’s hope that we don’t have typical government contractors working on that.
yeah I think that is fair!
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:24:49 AM
Give me the cliff notes, man. I don’t have time to read all the rough ridin' links!QuoteThe $18.3 million TMF investment will support OPM’s transition away from legacy systems, enabling a comprehensive modernization of the agency’s core infrastructure. This transformation is expected to significantly reduce annual maintenance costs while providing an enhanced customer experience for 2.8 million federal annuitants and survivors.Also, let’s hope that we don’t have typical government contractors working on that.
yeah I think that is fair!
Definitely in very poor taste and deliberately misleading for Elon not to mention that there’s a giant rough ridin' project associated with cleaning that up . I do not like that.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:26:00 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2025, 12:16:57 PM
It’s still a useful anecdote to illustrate the challenges of the federal government and the opportunities, but was super misleading the way that he portrayed it while standing in the oval office.
yes, also this link shows 138,000 retirements were processed in 2014 which makes his claim of 10000 per month because of an elevator seem dubious. https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/retirement-statistics/
even then, why would you need the capacity to process 10000 retirements in a month when you have only had the annual equivalent of 10000 per month once in the last 25 years?
Post by: kstate4life on February 12, 2025, 12:57:45 PM
It’s still a useful anecdote to illustrate the challenges of the federal government and the opportunities, but was super misleading the way that he portrayed it while standing in the oval office.
yes, also this link shows 138,000 retirements were processed in 2014 which makes his claim of 10000 per month because of an elevator seem dubious. https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/retirement-statistics/
even then, why would you need the capacity to process 10000 retirements in a month when you have only had the annual equivalent of 10000 per month once in the last 25 years?
And in theory, shouldn't there be less fed employees hitting retirement after their "cleanout" anyway?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 12, 2025, 01:33:28 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 12, 2025, 01:34:38 PM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1889062581848944961
Whoa, could this be the tweet that does it? Holy crap
edit- my bad, I thought this was recent. lol, of course no-one cared about it. What the hell have we become?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 12, 2025, 01:48:52 PM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1889062581848944961
Whoa, could this be the tweet that does it? Holy crap
edit- my bad, I thought this was recent. lol, of course no-one cared about it. What the hell have we become?
It's only two days old. But yeah, pretty much anyone who knows anything about any topic Elon tweets about already knows he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 12, 2025, 02:10:01 PM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1889062581848944961
Whoa, could this be the tweet that does it? Holy crap
edit- my bad, I thought this was recent. lol, of course no-one cared about it. What the hell have we become?
It's only two days old. But yeah, pretty much anyone who knows anything about any topic Elon tweets about already knows he doesn't know what he's talking about.
He rarely does. All the actual hard work of anything is done by actually smart people. Now that is not to say he's dumb, but like he's not even close to even Steve Jobs' understanding how how things work. Let alone the Woz's of the world that actually do crap.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 12, 2025, 02:19:02 PM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1889062581848944961
Whoa, could this be the tweet that does it? Holy crap
edit- my bad, I thought this was recent. lol, of course no-one cared about it. What the hell have we become?
It's only two days old. But yeah, pretty much anyone who knows anything about any topic Elon tweets about already knows he doesn't know what he's talking about.
He rarely does. All the actual hard work of anything is done by actually smart people. Now that is not to say he's dumb, but like he's not even close to even Steve Jobs' understanding how how things work. Let alone the Woz's of the world that actually do crap.
I mean yeah, any non idiot knows this is how it has always been with him and his companies. I'm also referring to the fact that the defacto president of the US called someone a "Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)" publicly on the largest SM platform in the world for everyone to see. He also did this and was wrong and no one seems to care. Its all just bonkers to me.
Post by: chum1 on February 12, 2025, 03:21:50 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 12, 2025, 04:17:20 PM
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts (https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts)
Post by: chum1 on February 12, 2025, 04:29:21 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 04:42:47 PM
Quote
Wall Street Journal Editorial Board
Is There a Constitutional Crisis?
Trump’s actions are aggressive, but they aren’t an executive coup.
Well, that was fast. The same people who predicted Donald Trump would be a dictator now say a “constitutional crisis” has already arrived, barely three weeks into his Presidency. They’re overwrought as usual, and readers may appreciate a less apocalyptic breakdown about Mr. Trump’s actions and whether they do or don’t breach the normal checks and balances.
Mr. Trump’s domestic-policy decisions so far strike us as falling into three categories. Most rest on strong legal ground. Some are legally debatable and could go either way in court. In still others Mr. Trump appears to be breaking current law deliberately to tee up cases that will go to the Supreme Court to restore what he considers to be constitutional norms. None of these is a constitutional crisis.
The first category includes the Administration’s decision to pause discretionary spending to ensure it complies with the President’s priorities. Democratic state Attorneys General say this is illegal, and Judge John McConnell on Monday agreed. The Administration is appealing, and judges can’t force a President to spend money that Congress has left to his discretion.
M ost of these spending programs don’t include concrete disbursement deadlines. If Mr. Trump is violating the law, so was the Biden Administration, which delayed disbursing grants under the 2021 infrastructure bill and 2022 Inflation Reduction Act to review applications and attach conditions. What Mr. Trump is doing is no different.
Government unions are challenging Mr. Trump’s buyout offers for federal workers on grounds that Congress hasn’t funded them, but this doesn’t make them illegal per se. If Mr. Trump later doesn’t pay these workers, they could sue in federal claims court.
Unions are also challenging Mr. Trump’s Schedule F reform, which removes civil-service protections for some high-ranking career employees. Here, too, Mr. Trump is on strong legal ground. The Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 exempts positions “determined to be of a confidential, policy-determining, policy-making or policy-advocating character.”
Mr. Trump has expanded these exempt positions to employees who supervise investigations, develop regulations and exercise power under an agency’s discretion. Congress has expanded the discretion of agencies such that federal workers now boast far more power than they did 50 years ago. A President should be able to hold them accountable for performance to ensure
A second category are decisions on more debatable legal ground, such as effectively dismantling the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and U.S. Agency for International Development. Congress established these agencies and it would have to act to eliminate them. Less clear is whether a President can order employees to cease doing their jobs.
Harvard law professor Hal Scott recently argued in these pages that the CFPB is operating illegally because Congress funded the agency with earnings from the Federal Reserve. Because the Fed has incurred losses since September 2022, Mr. Scott says the bureau should close unless Congress appropriates money for it. This argument is plausible.
As for USAID, a federal judge has temporarily blocked the Administration’s plans to wind down its operations to have more time to consider the merits. Many Administration actions raise novel legal questions. This bucket also includes whether employees with Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency can obtain access to Treasury payment systems.
Mr. Trump is stretching laws to see what he can get away with, but so have other recent Presidents. Barack Obama touted his pen-and-a-phone strategy of ruling by decree. “So sue me,” he taunted House Republicans. The Supreme Court blocked his Clean Power Plan and DAPA, which protected millions of undocumented immigrants from deportation.
Joe Biden exceeded his power by canceling student loans, mandating vaccines and banning evictions, among other overreaches. After the Supreme Court blocked his first loan write-off, he declared “that didn’t stop me” and used other illegal means. The Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals last year rebuked his Administration for turning a lower-court injunction on his SAVE plan into a “nullity.”
The third category of Trump actions are clear violations of current law with a goal of inviting legal challenges to get to the Supreme Court. This includes his order
Mr. Trump may be wrong, but there is no constitutional crisis as the cases make their way through the courts. Liberals are flogging a recent tweet by JD Vance that “judges aren’t allowed to control the executive’s legitimate power.” But even liberal judges agree with this in principle as they interpret the proper separation of constitutional powers.
The real crisis would come if Mr. Trump defies a Supreme Court ruling. If that happens, and it could, the left may wish it hadn’t squandered its credibility by crying wolf so often about crises that didn’t exist. Readers can relax in the meantime.
Quote
The article argues that concerns about a “constitutional crisis” under Donald Trump’s presidency are exaggerated. It categorizes Trump’s domestic policy actions into three groups:
1. Legally Sound Actions – These include pausing discretionary spending, offering buyouts to federal workers, and expanding Schedule F reforms to remove civil-service protections for certain employees. The article argues that these actions have legal precedent and are similar to past administrations’ decisions.
2. Legally Debatable Actions – These include attempts to dismantle the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) and the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). The legality of these moves is uncertain, but similar executive overreach has occurred under previous presidents, such as Obama and Biden.
3. Deliberate Legal Violations Aimed at Supreme Court Review – Some of Trump’s actions may openly challenge existing law in order to provoke legal battles that could redefine constitutional norms.
The article asserts that while Trump is testing legal boundaries, this is not a constitutional crisis. Instead, it argues that a true crisis would only arise if Trump defied a Supreme Court ruling—something that has not yet happened. The piece criticizes the left for frequently declaring crises prematurely, suggesting this weakens their credibility.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 04:48:03 PM
Can everyone stop pretending this is about Government Efficiency?GM signed one last year with state department for 300 million, but it’s a longer contract.
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts (https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts)
Quote
Direct comparisons between the GM Defense and Tesla contracts in terms of the number of vehicles to be provided are not explicitly available from public sources. Here's what we can infer based on the information at hand:
- **GM Defense - State Department Contract:**
- **Contract Amount**: Up to $300 million over 10 years.
- **Vehicle Type**: Next-generation heavy-duty armored SUVs based on the Chevrolet Suburban platform.
- **Purpose**: To replace the aging fleet of armored vehicles for diplomatic security.
- **Specifics**: The contract is an IDIQ type, which means the exact number of vehicles can vary based on need and funding. However, given the contract's scope and the need for fleet replacement, one can estimate a significant number of vehicles, potentially in the hundreds over the contract period, but without precise numbers.
- **Tesla - State Department Forecasted Contract:**
- **Contract Amount**: $400 million over 5 years.
- **Vehicle Type**: Armored electric vehicles.
- **Purpose**: Also for diplomatic security, introducing electric vehicle technology into the fleet.
- **Specifics**: This contract is also under an IDIQ framework, meaning the number of vehicles isn't set but will depend on the State Department's requirements. Given the contract's higher total value and shorter duration than GM's, one might speculate that either the vehicles are more expensive per unit or a larger quantity is anticipated, or perhaps a combination of both. However, without explicit details, this remains speculative.
**Comparative Points:**
- **Value per Year**: Tesla's contract, at $400 million over 5 years, averages to $80 million per year, while GM's is $30 million per year over 10 years. This disparity might suggest different vehicle costs, different quantities, or different scopes of modifications for security purposes.
- **Vehicle Type and Technology**: GM's vehicles are traditional ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) based, while Tesla's are electric, which might affect costs, maintenance, and the number of vehicles supplied due to different operational considerations like range and security features in electric vehicles.
**Conclusion**:
Without specific numbers disclosed, direct comparisons on quantities are speculative. Both contracts will likely involve supplying vehicles in batches as needed over their respective terms, with Tesla's potentially involving fewer but more technologically advanced units or simply more units due to the higher annual contract value. To get precise numbers, one would need access to the detailed procurement plans or contract modifications which are not publicly detailed in this context.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 12, 2025, 04:53:30 PM
Can everyone stop pretending this is about Government Efficiency?
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts (https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts)
Have to save those pennies to throw it over to himself.
So not surprised by this at all.
Post by: bucket on February 12, 2025, 05:18:04 PM
Can everyone stop pretending this is about Government Efficiency?
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts (https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts)
Here's a NYT's gift article about all of the lawsuits the government has against Musk. FWIW, I thought it was boring but it basically highlights all of the lawsuits and how this administration will essentially let him off completely or with a slap on the wrist for most.
All things considered, it's a massive conflict of interest for a multitude of reasons at the highest levels and we just throw our hands up like it's no big deal.
In fact, today or yesterday, I realized the country is representing companies and not the people. I also realized that has been going on for a long time, since Citizens United? But it's never been more apparent.
https://bsky.app/profile/ericlipton.nytimes.com/post/3lhwxqjh7ps23
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 12, 2025, 05:20:45 PM
Can everyone stop pretending this is about Government Efficiency?GM signed one last year with state department for 300 million, but it’s a longer contract.
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts (https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts)Quote
Direct comparisons between the GM Defense and Tesla contracts in terms of the number of vehicles to be provided are not explicitly available from public sources. Here's what we can infer based on the information at hand:
- **GM Defense - State Department Contract:**
- **Contract Amount**: Up to $300 million over 10 years.
- **Vehicle Type**: Next-generation heavy-duty armored SUVs based on the Chevrolet Suburban platform.
- **Purpose**: To replace the aging fleet of armored vehicles for diplomatic security.
- **Specifics**: The contract is an IDIQ type, which means the exact number of vehicles can vary based on need and funding. However, given the contract's scope and the need for fleet replacement, one can estimate a significant number of vehicles, potentially in the hundreds over the contract period, but without precise numbers.
- **Tesla - State Department Forecasted Contract:**
- **Contract Amount**: $400 million over 5 years.
- **Vehicle Type**: Armored electric vehicles.
- **Purpose**: Also for diplomatic security, introducing electric vehicle technology into the fleet.
- **Specifics**: This contract is also under an IDIQ framework, meaning the number of vehicles isn't set but will depend on the State Department's requirements. Given the contract's higher total value and shorter duration than GM's, one might speculate that either the vehicles are more expensive per unit or a larger quantity is anticipated, or perhaps a combination of both. However, without explicit details, this remains speculative.
**Comparative Points:**
- **Value per Year**: Tesla's contract, at $400 million over 5 years, averages to $80 million per year, while GM's is $30 million per year over 10 years. This disparity might suggest different vehicle costs, different quantities, or different scopes of modifications for security purposes.
- **Vehicle Type and Technology**: GM's vehicles are traditional ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) based, while Tesla's are electric, which might affect costs, maintenance, and the number of vehicles supplied due to different operational considerations like range and security features in electric vehicles.
**Conclusion**:
Without specific numbers disclosed, direct comparisons on quantities are speculative. Both contracts will likely involve supplying vehicles in batches as needed over their respective terms, with Tesla's potentially involving fewer but more technologically advanced units or simply more units due to the higher annual contract value. To get precise numbers, one would need access to the detailed procurement plans or contract modifications which are not publicly detailed in this context.
Did GM's CEO have an office in the white house and shut down several government agencies while that decision was being made?
Post by: wetwillie on February 12, 2025, 05:26:59 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2025, 06:43:31 PM
Is this from grokCan everyone stop pretending this is about Government Efficiency?GM signed one last year with state department for 300 million, but it’s a longer contract.
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts (https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts)Quote
Direct comparisons between the GM Defense and Tesla contracts in terms of the number of vehicles to be provided are not explicitly available from public sources. Here's what we can infer based on the information at hand:
- **GM Defense - State Department Contract:**
- **Contract Amount**: Up to $300 million over 10 years.
- **Vehicle Type**: Next-generation heavy-duty armored SUVs based on the Chevrolet Suburban platform.
- **Purpose**: To replace the aging fleet of armored vehicles for diplomatic security.
- **Specifics**: The contract is an IDIQ type, which means the exact number of vehicles can vary based on need and funding. However, given the contract's scope and the need for fleet replacement, one can estimate a significant number of vehicles, potentially in the hundreds over the contract period, but without precise numbers.
- **Tesla - State Department Forecasted Contract:**
- **Contract Amount**: $400 million over 5 years.
- **Vehicle Type**: Armored electric vehicles.
- **Purpose**: Also for diplomatic security, introducing electric vehicle technology into the fleet.
- **Specifics**: This contract is also under an IDIQ framework, meaning the number of vehicles isn't set but will depend on the State Department's requirements. Given the contract's higher total value and shorter duration than GM's, one might speculate that either the vehicles are more expensive per unit or a larger quantity is anticipated, or perhaps a combination of both. However, without explicit details, this remains speculative.
**Comparative Points:**
- **Value per Year**: Tesla's contract, at $400 million over 5 years, averages to $80 million per year, while GM's is $30 million per year over 10 years. This disparity might suggest different vehicle costs, different quantities, or different scopes of modifications for security purposes.
- **Vehicle Type and Technology**: GM's vehicles are traditional ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) based, while Tesla's are electric, which might affect costs, maintenance, and the number of vehicles supplied due to different operational considerations like range and security features in electric vehicles.
**Conclusion**:
Without specific numbers disclosed, direct comparisons on quantities are speculative. Both contracts will likely involve supplying vehicles in batches as needed over their respective terms, with Tesla's potentially involving fewer but more technologically advanced units or simply more units due to the higher annual contract value. To get precise numbers, one would need access to the detailed procurement plans or contract modifications which are not publicly detailed in this context.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2025, 07:06:16 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2025, 07:07:39 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: mocat on February 12, 2025, 07:39:28 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2025, 07:50:54 PM
https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/ (https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/)
So blatantly criminal. They would probably get caught but I'm guessing Adams learned something about doing crimes over text.
Post by: mocat on February 12, 2025, 07:51:42 PM
Post by: mocat on February 12, 2025, 07:55:55 PM
https://www.state.gov/procurement-forecast (https://www.state.gov/procurement-forecast)
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 08:58:11 PM
It is! I like to check it first because I like finding things critical of Elon by Grok.Is this from grokCan everyone stop pretending this is about Government Efficiency?GM signed one last year with state department for 300 million, but it’s a longer contract.
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts (https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/elon-musk-armored-tesla-forecast-400-million-state-department-contracts)Quote
Direct comparisons between the GM Defense and Tesla contracts in terms of the number of vehicles to be provided are not explicitly available from public sources. Here's what we can infer based on the information at hand:
- **GM Defense - State Department Contract:**
- **Contract Amount**: Up to $300 million over 10 years.
- **Vehicle Type**: Next-generation heavy-duty armored SUVs based on the Chevrolet Suburban platform.
- **Purpose**: To replace the aging fleet of armored vehicles for diplomatic security.
- **Specifics**: The contract is an IDIQ type, which means the exact number of vehicles can vary based on need and funding. However, given the contract's scope and the need for fleet replacement, one can estimate a significant number of vehicles, potentially in the hundreds over the contract period, but without precise numbers.
- **Tesla - State Department Forecasted Contract:**
- **Contract Amount**: $400 million over 5 years.
- **Vehicle Type**: Armored electric vehicles.
- **Purpose**: Also for diplomatic security, introducing electric vehicle technology into the fleet.
- **Specifics**: This contract is also under an IDIQ framework, meaning the number of vehicles isn't set but will depend on the State Department's requirements. Given the contract's higher total value and shorter duration than GM's, one might speculate that either the vehicles are more expensive per unit or a larger quantity is anticipated, or perhaps a combination of both. However, without explicit details, this remains speculative.
**Comparative Points:**
- **Value per Year**: Tesla's contract, at $400 million over 5 years, averages to $80 million per year, while GM's is $30 million per year over 10 years. This disparity might suggest different vehicle costs, different quantities, or different scopes of modifications for security purposes.
- **Vehicle Type and Technology**: GM's vehicles are traditional ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) based, while Tesla's are electric, which might affect costs, maintenance, and the number of vehicles supplied due to different operational considerations like range and security features in electric vehicles.
**Conclusion**:
Without specific numbers disclosed, direct comparisons on quantities are speculative. Both contracts will likely involve supplying vehicles in batches as needed over their respective terms, with Tesla's potentially involving fewer but more technologically advanced units or simply more units due to the higher annual contract value. To get precise numbers, one would need access to the detailed procurement plans or contract modifications which are not publicly detailed in this context.
Below is ChatGPT
Quote
The U.S. Department of State has engaged in several significant contracts for non-military armored vehicles to enhance the safety of its personnel. Notable examples include:
• GM Defense LLC Contract: In late 2023, the Department awarded GM Defense a 10-year Indefinite Delivery Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contract to supply next-generation heavy-duty armored SUVs for the Diplomatic Security Service. The initial task order under this contract was valued at $25 million, covering vehicles, training, and engineering services. ?
• Alpine Armoring Inc.: Over the past 30 years, Alpine Armoring has been a key provider of non-military armored vehicles to various U.S. government agencies, including the Department of State. While specific contract values are not publicly disclosed, the company’s longstanding relationship with the government underscores its significant role in supplying armored vehicles for diplomatic and security purposes. ?
These contracts, while substantial, are generally smaller in scale compared to the recently projected $400 million contract with Tesla for armored electric vehicles. This indicates a growing investment in advanced armored vehicle solutions for non-military applications.
In contrast, military contracts for armored vehicles often reach higher values. For example, in March 2022, the U.S. Army awarded Lockheed Martin a $3.2 billion contract for the production of AN/TPQ-53 radar systems.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 09:04:38 PM
What is the crime?https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/ (https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/)
So blatantly criminal. They would probably get caught but I'm guessing Adams learned something about doing crimes over text.
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2025, 09:32:52 PM
What is the crime?https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/ (https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/)
So blatantly criminal. They would probably get caught but I'm guessing Adams learned something about doing crimes over text.
It looks very much like a quid pro quo situation with Adams allowing the money to be taken back in exchange for dropping his corruption charges.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 09:46:56 PM
Ah, I agree. I mistakenly thought you were talking about the Tesla state department deal which is shameless pork barrel crap, but probably not illegal.What is the crime?https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/ (https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/)
So blatantly criminal. They would probably get caught but I'm guessing Adams learned something about doing crimes over text.
It looks very much like a quid pro quo situation with Adams allowing the money to be taken back in exchange for dropping his corruption charges.
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 09:51:01 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 09:53:04 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 09:54:32 PM
a fun thing about what's going on in the most powerful country on earth is that now a (rascist/austistic/silver spoon/psuedo-intellectual) is now in charge. all good things we want in a leader for sure.Although when you think about it, it’s really not that outrageous to assume that there have been prior instances of racist autistic Silverspoon pseudo intellectuals advising the president in a very persuasive way. In fact, you might argue that’s the profile of most presidential advisors over the years.
That sounds like the description of everyone in a political think tank, besides the business development guys.
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 10:06:36 PM
a fun thing about what's going on in the most powerful country on earth is that now a (rascist/austistic/silver spoon/psuedo-intellectual) is now in charge. all good things we want in a leader for sure.Although when you think about it, it’s really not that outrageous to assume that there have been prior instances of racist autistic Silverspoon pseudo intellectuals advising the president in a very persuasive way. In fact, you might argue that’s the profile of most presidential advisors over the years.
That sounds like the description of everyone in a political think tank, besides the business development guys.
name them
(https://mynbc15.com/resources/media2/16x9/949/648/2x0/90/bee96003-e26a-4358-bac7-fbddf9ed7729-Screenshot20250212at8.32.05AM.png)
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 12, 2025, 10:13:48 PM
Two of the richest people in the world are taking money from the poor and giving it to themselves.
And Trump doesn't allow any media group that he doesn't like to interview him anymore. And sues people if the say mean things about him.
Do I have anything wrong?
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 12, 2025, 10:14:46 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 12, 2025, 10:24:56 PM
It does kind of resemble when the Czars were advised by Rasputin.
I refuse to accept that Elon is a virile lover. I mean I know he has a ton of kids but I’d bet my life each of those poor women was just dead fishin it start to finish. Ain’t no way Milania is getting her world rocked by Elon not now not ever.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 10:33:34 PM
Do you think I know the names of actual former presidential advisors?a fun thing about what's going on in the most powerful country on earth is that now a (rascist/austistic/silver spoon/psuedo-intellectual) is now in charge. all good things we want in a leader for sure.Although when you think about it, it’s really not that outrageous to assume that there have been prior instances of racist autistic Silverspoon pseudo intellectuals advising the president in a very persuasive way. In fact, you might argue that’s the profile of most presidential advisors over the years.
That sounds like the description of everyone in a political think tank, besides the business development guys.
name them
(https://mynbc15.com/resources/media2/16x9/949/648/2x0/90/bee96003-e26a-4358-bac7-fbddf9ed7729-Screenshot20250212at8.32.05AM.png)
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 10:34:45 PM
Their number one goal had to have been to get him to finish as fast as possible.It does kind of resemble when the Czars were advised by Rasputin.
I refuse to accept that Elon is a virile lover. I mean I know he has a ton of kids but I’d bet my life each of those poor women was just dead fishin it start to finish. Ain’t no way Milania is getting her world rocked by Elon not now not ever.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 10:38:25 PM
So to recap the past could of pages, a woman died because Elon needed pause medicare/medicaid to find waste and/or corruption, and then Elon gave himself a $400M contract using our tax dollars, while Space X also makes $40 million in our tax dollars? Man, it's almost as if this was entirely predictable and dax's cult is so invested in not looking like dumb fucks after sucking Trump's dick for 8 years, that they're never going to admit to being wrong.That all is accurate I think. I certainly do not dispute any of those items. I would just add to the list that SpaceX has saved the government more money than about any other vendor swap in the history of the federal government.
Two of the richest people in the world are taking money from the poor and giving it to themselves.
And Trump doesn't allow any media group that he doesn't like to interview him anymore. And sues people if the say mean things about him.
Do I have anything wrong?
Quote
SpaceX has saved NASA billions of dollars compared to Boeing and United Launch Alliance (ULA) for launching payloads and astronauts into space. Here are a few key comparisons:
1. Commercial Crew Program (NASA Crew Missions)
• SpaceX Crew Dragon: NASA awarded SpaceX $2.6 billion in 2014 for six crewed missions to the ISS.
• Boeing Starliner: NASA awarded Boeing $4.2 billion for the same six missions.
• Cost per seat:
• SpaceX Crew Dragon: ~$55 million per seat
• Boeing Starliner: ~$90 million per seat
SpaceX has provided cheaper and more reliable crew transport. Boeing’s Starliner has yet to complete a fully operational crewed mission as of early 2024.
2. Falcon 9 vs. ULA’s Atlas V & Delta IV
• Falcon 9: Cost per launch is ~$67 million (reusable)
• Atlas V: Cost per launch is ~$110–$150 million (expendable)
• Delta IV Heavy: Cost per launch is ~$400 million (expendable)
By using reusable Falcon 9 rockets, SpaceX has significantly reduced the cost of launching satellites and cargo for NASA.
3. Artemis Lunar Program: SpaceX Starship vs. Boeing SLS
• SpaceX Starship (Lunar Variant): NASA awarded SpaceX a $2.9 billion contract to develop a lunar lander for Artemis missions.
• Boeing’s SLS Rocket: Development has cost NASA over $23 billion, with each SLS launch estimated at $4.1 billion.
SpaceX’s Starship, if fully operational, could drastically lower Artemis program costs compared to Boeing’s SLS, which is expensive and not reusable.
Total Estimated Savings to NASA
Estimates suggest SpaceX has saved NASA between $20 billion and $40 billion in launch costs compared to using Boeing and ULA.
Would you like more details on specific missions or cost breakdowns?
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 10:44:06 PM
Do you think I know the names of actual former presidential advisors?a fun thing about what's going on in the most powerful country on earth is that now a (rascist/austistic/silver spoon/psuedo-intellectual) is now in charge. all good things we want in a leader for sure.Although when you think about it, it’s really not that outrageous to assume that there have been prior instances of racist autistic Silverspoon pseudo intellectuals advising the president in a very persuasive way. In fact, you might argue that’s the profile of most presidential advisors over the years.
That sounds like the description of everyone in a political think tank, besides the business development guys.
name them
(https://mynbc15.com/resources/media2/16x9/949/648/2x0/90/bee96003-e26a-4358-bac7-fbddf9ed7729-Screenshot20250212at8.32.05AM.png)
you talked very confidently about them. if you don't believe they have the same level of influence or don't know their names then I'll assume you don't.
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 10:46:18 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 10:47:10 PM
Do you think I know the names of actual former presidential advisors?a fun thing about what's going on in the most powerful country on earth is that now a (rascist/austistic/silver spoon/psuedo-intellectual) is now in charge. all good things we want in a leader for sure.Although when you think about it, it’s really not that outrageous to assume that there have been prior instances of racist autistic Silverspoon pseudo intellectuals advising the president in a very persuasive way. In fact, you might argue that’s the profile of most presidential advisors over the years.
That sounds like the description of everyone in a political think tank, besides the business development guys.
name them
(https://mynbc15.com/resources/media2/16x9/949/648/2x0/90/bee96003-e26a-4358-bac7-fbddf9ed7729-Screenshot20250212at8.32.05AM.png)
you talked very confidently about them. if you don't believe they have the same level of influence or don't know their names then I'll assume you don't.
Given the time period these guys worked I bet you they were racist as eff. I mean, they all have to be white, right?
Quote
Here’s a list of presidential advisors who were known for their mathematical, quantitative, or analytical expertise:
1. John von Neumann (Advisor to President Eisenhower)
• A brilliant mathematician, physicist, and computer scientist.
• Helped develop game theory and worked on the Manhattan Project.
• Advised the government on nuclear strategy and computing.
2. Edward Teller (Advisor to Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Reagan)
• A physicist and mathematician, known as the “father of the hydrogen bomb.”
• Provided strategic nuclear and defense advice.
3. George P. Shultz (Advisor to Presidents Nixon and Reagan)
• Had a strong background in economics and quantitative analysis.
• Applied economic and statistical models to public policy.
4. Herbert Simon (Advisor to Presidents Johnson and Carter)
• A Nobel Prize-winning economist known for decision theory and artificial intelligence.
• His work in bounded rationality influenced government decision-making.
5. James Schlesinger (Advisor to Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Carter)
• An economist with a strong quantitative background.
• Served as Secretary of Defense and the first Secretary of Energy.
6. John Nash (Informal advisor under various administrations)
• A mathematician famous for his work in game theory (Nash Equilibrium).
• His theories influenced Cold War nuclear strategy and economics.
7. Lawrence Summers (Advisor to Presidents Clinton and Obama)
• An economist with expertise in mathematical modeling.
• Served as Treasury Secretary and Director of the National Economic Council.
8. Paul Samuelson (Advisor to Presidents Kennedy and Johnson)
• One of the most influential economists of the 20th century.
• Used advanced mathematical models to shape economic policy.
9. Henry Kissinger (Advisor to Presidents Nixon and Ford)
• Though primarily a political scientist, he used game theory and strategic analysis in diplomacy.
10. Alan Greenspan (Advisor to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Bush Sr.)
• A trained economist and statistician.
• Applied quantitative economic models in his role as Chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 10:49:56 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 10:50:58 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 10:52:00 PM
Quote
some of the individuals on that list have faced accusations of racism or bigotry, either directly or through their policies and statements. Here are the notable cases:
1. Edward Teller
• No known accusations of racism or bigotry, though his strong advocacy for nuclear weapons and opposition to arms control made him controversial.
2. George P. Shultz
• No known accusations of racism or bigotry. He was widely respected for his diplomatic work, especially in U.S.-Soviet relations.
3. Herbert Simon
• No known accusations of racism or bigotry. His work focused on artificial intelligence, decision theory, and economics.
4. James Schlesinger
• Accused of being insensitive to racial issues while leading the Department of Defense, particularly regarding military policy and treatment of minority service members.
• No specific public racist remarks, but some viewed his policies as favoring elite military groups over efforts to diversify.
5. John Nash
• Accusations of anti-Semitism and racist remarks surfaced during his life, though Nash himself denied being racist or anti-Semitic.
• Some reports claimed that in his younger years, he made derogatory remarks about Jewish individuals and minorities.
• Later in life, Nash dismissed these allegations, attributing any such behavior to his struggles with mental illness (schizophrenia).
6. Lawrence Summers
• Accused of sexism rather than racism.
• As president of Harvard University, he suggested that innate differences might explain the lack of women in science and math fields, which sparked major controversy.
• Apologized but still faced criticism for his views.
7. Paul Samuelson
• No known accusations of racism or bigotry. His work in economics was widely respected, and he promoted policies aimed at reducing inequality.
8. Henry Kissinger
• Accused of racist and imperialist attitudes in foreign policy.
• Declassified documents and recordings reveal he made derogatory remarks about South Asians, Latin Americans, and African leaders.
• Advocated U.S. support for regimes that engaged in racial oppression, such as apartheid South Africa.
9. Alan Greenspan
• No direct accusations of racism, though some critics argue that his economic policies disproportionately harmed minorities, especially in housing and banking regulation.
10. John von Neumann
• No known accusations of racism or bigotry. His work was primarily mathematical and technical, with no major political or social controversy.
Most Notable Cases
• Henry Kissinger had well-documented racist remarks and policies that disproportionately affected non-Western countries.
• John Nash was accused of anti-Semitism and racism, though he denied these claims later in life.
• Lawrence Summers was criticized for sexism but not racism.
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 10:52:16 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 10:52:31 PM
I concede all of those old white guys were racist as eff. but you're copying and pasting old white guy lore. that's a given. none of them wielded this apparent sword or amount of influence.Well, Von Newman’s sword was a nuclear weapon so
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 10:53:34 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 10:54:09 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 10:59:23 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 11:00:20 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:02:54 PM
but, pete, you concede this is unprecedented despite the other shitty examples?Yeah, absolutely. I personally don’t know who it is that was pulling the levers behind Biden, unless it was Jill or one of the other family members which could be kinda analogous by them getting the benefit of pardoning of his troubled kid I suppose. That’s a huge reach.
I kinda argue Cheney was that for W
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:04:57 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 11:05:24 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:06:57 PM
is that you dax?KK is on the record for saying Cheney is like the worst guy ever to live
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:07:34 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 11:08:00 PM
is that you dax?KK is on the record for saying Cheney is like the worst guy ever to live
I'm on the record with him. Hang him.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:09:13 PM
Then I don’t get your angleis that you dax?KK is on the record for saying Cheney is like the worst guy ever to live
I'm on the record with him. Hang him.
I’ve said like 1 million different ways so I think the guy is a piece of crap and every time everybody reacts the same way when I point out merely one rough ridin' thing the guy does well . Just cause I hate a rough ridin' guy doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge certain things He does well.
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:09:41 PM
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:10:54 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 11:19:46 PM
Then I don’t get your angleis that you dax?KK is on the record for saying Cheney is like the worst guy ever to live
I'm on the record with him. Hang him.
I’ve said like 1 million different ways so I think the guy is a piece of crap and every time everybody reacts the same way when I point out merely one rough ridin' thing the guy does well . Just cause I hate a rough ridin' guy doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge certain things He does well.
I don't have an angle. Murderers should hang.
Post by: steve dave on February 12, 2025, 11:21:47 PM
Also, this Siri talk to text sucks so apologies
the best thing about this stuff (you being wrong) is we're buds and it doesn't matter
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2025, 11:26:50 PM
Go catsAlso, this Siri talk to text sucks so apologies
the best thing about this stuff (you being wrong) is we're buds and it doesn't matter
Post by: star seed 7 on February 12, 2025, 11:44:38 PM
Post by: Pete on February 13, 2025, 08:27:35 AM
Post by: mocat on February 13, 2025, 08:36:07 AM
Elon just got a $400 million contract for armored teslas. Siap but you can just click the first link and sort by largest contract value. It's the largest one.
https://www.state.gov/procurement-forecast (https://www.state.gov/procurement-forecast)
"Tesla" was removed from the name of the contract last night
https://time.com/7221880/state-department-2025-procurement-forecast-tesla-armored-electric-vehicles-musk/?utm_source=reddit.com (https://time.com/7221880/state-department-2025-procurement-forecast-tesla-armored-electric-vehicles-musk/?utm_source=reddit.com)
Post by: Trim on February 13, 2025, 08:46:31 AM
Not sure how this got locked. I might have accidentally clicked something
Mod log shows I accidentally clicked it. Maybe as I was going to sleep I subconsciously thought locking the thread would lock musk out of all our lives.
Post by: mocat on February 13, 2025, 08:53:02 AM
Stephen Miller definitely fits the criteria
absolutely. he seems like a true believer.
but courting racists is just as if not more evil, imo. the grandaddy of them all, Lee Atwater:
Quote
Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, "n-word, n-word, n-word". By 1968, you can't say "n-word"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this", is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "n-word, n-word". So, any way you look at it, race is coming on the back-burner.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 08:58:46 AM
A president who openly talked about how he didn’t want his white kids growing up in a “racial jungle” . . . a dude who counted some of the biggest racists in the modern history of our Congress as his BFF’s.
Bill Clinton’s mentor was an ardent segregationist. Bill’s wife pushed “we will bring them to heel”/incarceration nation from the bully pulpit of FLOTUS.
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Post by: mocat on February 13, 2025, 09:03:03 AM
Best analogy is Gríma, also known as Wormtongue, who was the chief advisor to King Théoden King of Rohan. Gríma secretly worked for Saruman to weaken the king and Rohan. But, he may not have been autistic. And obviously Théoden was more like Obama when he woke up (no pun intended).
grima was not autistic, just suffered massive PTSD from his time spent in the cuckoo's nest
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 13, 2025, 09:25:25 AM
https://www.the-independent.com/tech/tesla-crash-brakes-musk-china-zhang-yazhou-b2697360.html
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 09:50:58 AM
Post by: mocat on February 13, 2025, 09:54:07 AM
Seems familiarDang, Chinese courts don't seem very communist
https://www.the-independent.com/tech/tesla-crash-brakes-musk-china-zhang-yazhou-b2697360.html
Post by: catastrophe on February 13, 2025, 10:03:11 AM
a fun thing about what's going on in the most powerful country on earth is that now a (rascist/austistic/silver spoon/psuedo-intellectual) is now in charge. all good things we want in a leader for sure.Although when you think about it, it’s really not that outrageous to assume that there have been prior instances of racist autistic Silverspoon pseudo intellectuals advising the president in a very persuasive way. In fact, you might argue that’s the profile of most presidential advisors over the years.
That sounds like the description of everyone in a political think tank, besides the business development guys.
Unless your point is that this is a great opportunity to address a blatant case of corruption and potentially add better safeguards against the hidden ones, I don't really follow the whataboutism here.
Post by: catastrophe on February 13, 2025, 10:04:03 AM
Best analogy is Gríma, also known as Wormtongue, who was the chief advisor to King Théoden King of Rohan. Gríma secretly worked for Saruman to weaken the king and Rohan. But, he may not have been autistic. And obviously Théoden was more like Obama when he woke up (no pun intended).
grima was not autistic, just suffered massive PTSD from his time spent in the cuckoo's nest
I think you guys might be confusing autistic with psychopath?
Post by: cfbandyman on February 13, 2025, 11:12:01 AM
Seems familiar
https://www.the-independent.com/tech/tesla-crash-brakes-musk-china-zhang-yazhou-b2697360.html
This has been going on for a very, very long time. They've sued everyone from Top Gear (though that was mostly a jest thing) to all the autopilot crap.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lawsuits_involving_Tesla,_Inc.
Some of those are pretty meh, but plenty, and especially IMO the lies around autopilot, and the phantom braking (which I experience regularly) are damning but they weasel their way out or just settle.
Post by: LickNeckey on February 13, 2025, 11:15:25 AM
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 11:21:07 AM
In 2023, the Pentagon awarded SpaceX a contract worth about $23 million to use Starlink to support military operations in Ukraine through mid-2024.
His companies were promised $3 billion across nearly 100 different contracts with 17 federal agencies in 2023
Post by: LickNeckey on February 13, 2025, 11:25:12 AM
Musk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
Post by: cfbandyman on February 13, 2025, 11:27:19 AM
sorry dax this is just another one of those things you postedMusk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2025, 11:28:29 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 13, 2025, 11:29:04 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 13, 2025, 11:29:13 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 11:29:35 AM
sorry dax this is just another one of those things you postedMusk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
I know that Lick.
Now which administration gave Musk $3 billion in contracts?
Remember, you guys used to love Musk and his EV's.
Post by: wetwillie on February 13, 2025, 11:36:32 AM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 13, 2025, 11:39:04 AM
sorry dax this is just another one of those things you postedMusk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
I know that Lick.
Now which administration gave Musk $3 billion in contracts?
Remember, you guys used to love Musk and his EV's.
Well you posted that in August of 2020 so…Trump I guess? Should we just embroider the “kick me” sign to the back of your shirt? Like what even is going on here
Post by: LickNeckey on February 13, 2025, 11:41:36 AM
Trump gave the guy you think is a national security threat the keys to the castle
*oddly you have only seemed to criticize one of these things
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 11:46:26 AM
sorry dax this is just another one of those things you postedMusk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
I know that Lick.
Now which administration gave Musk $3 billion in contracts?
Remember, you guys used to love Musk and his EV's.
Well you posted that in August of 2020 so…Trump I guess? Should we just embroider the “kick me” sign to the back of your shirt? Like what even is going on here
So the Biden Administration put Musk and his companies through no vetting processes whatsoever? They just started awarding them billions of dollars in contracts with no oversight, no security review of any kind?
You guys only started hating Musk when he started supporting Trump.
I also asked you guys to walk us through the timeline of government suits against Musk.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 11:50:32 AM
Biden gave the guy you think is a national security threat 3 Billion in gov contracts
Trump gave the guy you think is a national security threat the keys to the castle
*oddly you have only seemed to criticize one of these things
I read this recalling that Democrats have been an unmitigated disaster on two fronts: 1. The cyber and information security front. 2. Allowing Chinese spies to have direct and intimate contact with senior political leadership of our country at both the Federal and state level. In fact, one person who was having a sexual relationship with a Chinese spy still sits in Congress to this day and has held multiple "eyes only" committee appointments. Of course, I have to mention our previous POTUS and VPOTUS being in direct business relationships with CCP controlled entities.
I suppose on that note, the time to be deeply concerned about Musk as come to the fore again . . . The Biden Administration probably didn't do any deep security review of Musk and companies. Just awarded them billions in contracts.
Certainly something to ponder.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 13, 2025, 11:53:47 AM
sorry dax this is just another one of those things you postedMusk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
I know that Lick.
Now which administration gave Musk $3 billion in contracts?
Remember, you guys used to love Musk and his EV's.
Well you posted that in August of 2020 so…Trump I guess? Should we just embroider the “kick me” sign to the back of your shirt? Like what even is going on here
So the Biden Administration put Musk and his companies through no vetting processes whatsoever? They just started awarding them billions of dollars in contracts with no oversight, no security review of any kind?
You guys only started hating Musk when he started supporting Trump.
I also asked you guys to walk us through the timeline of government suits against Musk.
Ah ok I understand what you were saying now. Sorry your (normally succinct) posting style can be difficult to follow sometimes (always) and can occasionally be a bit tedious (literally every post)
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 11:54:35 AM
sorry dax this is just another one of those things you postedMusk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
I know that Lick.
Now which administration gave Musk $3 billion in contracts?
Remember, you guys used to love Musk and his EV's.
Well you posted that in August of 2020 so…Trump I guess? Should we just embroider the “kick me” sign to the back of your shirt? Like what even is going on here
So the Biden Administration put Musk and his companies through no vetting processes whatsoever? They just started awarding them billions of dollars in contracts with no oversight, no security review of any kind?
You guys only started hating Musk when he started supporting Trump.
I also asked you guys to walk us through the timeline of government suits against Musk.
Ah ok I understand what you were saying now. Sorry your (normally succinct) posting style can be difficult to follow sometimes (always) and can occasionally be a bit tedious (literally every post)
Until further notice you're Western Kansas Red Ass Cat (WKRAC)
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 11:55:38 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 12:00:20 PM
So your fake outrage on Musk's access is just :lol: :lol:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 01:46:14 PM
https://twitter.com/JohnMcCloy/status/1889848963613835753
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 13, 2025, 02:37:23 PM
sorry dax this is just another one of those things you postedMusk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
Look away kids.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 02:38:26 PM
People like #slowdug will avoid that entirely
Post by: chum1 on February 13, 2025, 02:51:32 PM
Quote
Doe 1-26 vs. Elon Musk and DOGE
Complaint: "Attempted government takeover" in violation of the Appointments Clause.
https://bsky.app/profile/rgoodlaw.bsky.social/post/3li33i5mxvk2k
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 13, 2025, 02:54:56 PM
(insert Dems voting down auditing Ukrainian funding here)
Post by: Kat Kid on February 13, 2025, 04:02:25 PM
Auditing is taking over the government . . . #blueanon/#blueanongE
(insert Dems voting down auditing Ukrainian funding here)
Is cutting/repurposing/withdrawing funds a typical part of an audit?
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 13, 2025, 04:27:24 PM
Pedo Pete gave the security threat billions in contracts.
People like #slowdug will avoid that entirely
I see we both agree that is insane and he is compromised by china.
Post by: bucket on February 13, 2025, 04:40:14 PM
What is the crime?https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/ (https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/)
So blatantly criminal. They would probably get caught but I'm guessing Adams learned something about doing crimes over text.
It looks very much like a quid pro quo situation with Adams allowing the money to be taken back in exchange for dropping his corruption charges.
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:lwlwbg4mvvz4uppezlxcczm2/bafkreigvbw2vqs6vy6uzn6brrnixla7vwngvxhiq66opqeok7hhnlytaka@jpeg)
Post by: Trim on February 13, 2025, 05:24:48 PM
sorry dax this is just another one of those things you postedMusk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
:lol:
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2025, 06:52:21 PM
What is the crime?https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/ (https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comptroller-lander-on-the-trump-administrations-illegal-reversal-of-fema-funding/)
So blatantly criminal. They would probably get caught but I'm guessing Adams learned something about doing crimes over text.
It looks very much like a quid pro quo situation with Adams allowing the money to be taken back in exchange for dropping his corruption charges.
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:lwlwbg4mvvz4uppezlxcczm2/bafkreigvbw2vqs6vy6uzn6brrnixla7vwngvxhiq66opqeok7hhnlytaka@jpeg)
LMAO
To be fair this isn't entirely Musk
Post by: bucket on February 13, 2025, 06:54:05 PM
LMAO
To be fair this isn't entirely Musk
No but Adams and Musk do share a lawyer
Post by: wetwillie on February 13, 2025, 06:55:01 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 13, 2025, 06:57:19 PM
Burden of proof is on the state
Proof doesn't really mean anything. The DOJ would just fire anyone who tried to prosecute a friend of Trump.
Post by: Pete on February 13, 2025, 08:02:44 PM
Tough spot to be in. I don’t know what I would do. On the one hand quitting would be the easiest way to simultaneously throw up a middle finger and also get the eff out and go enjoy my life. On the other hand, could create more resistance by saying and disrupting from within. Justice department people can typically go make bank when they leave tho.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 13, 2025, 08:30:16 PM
The justice department people quitting over the Adams case are probably going to be replaced by people who are emblematic of forces they oppose and about which they have quit in protest.
Tough spot to be in. I don’t know what I would do. On the one hand quitting would be the easiest way to simultaneously throw up a middle finger and also get the eff out and go enjoy my life. On the other hand, could create more resistance by saying and disrupting from within. Justice department people can typically go make bank when they leave tho.
Staying doesn't really do any good if you have to do everything you are told to do, anyway.
Post by: bucket on February 13, 2025, 08:31:10 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 13, 2025, 09:38:45 PM
Mass resignations used to be an alarm, but they really aren't anymore
For this administration it’s more of a feature
Post by: chum1 on February 13, 2025, 11:13:46 PM
Quote
A huge decision from Judge Amir Ali, meticulously reasoned and utterly scathing, finding that Trump’s foreign aid freeze is almost certainly an illegal and arbitrary abuse of power. He orders the immediate restoration of all international assistance.
https://bsky.app/profile/mjsdc.bsky.social/post/3li4c572x7c2i
Post by: catastrophe on February 13, 2025, 11:20:15 PM
The justice department people quitting over the Adams case are probably going to be replaced by people who are emblematic of forces they oppose and about which they have quit in protest.Lawyers don’t have a lot options when faced with an ethical dilemma with their client. Quitting is pretty much the most you can do.
Tough spot to be in. I don’t know what I would do. On the one hand quitting would be the easiest way to simultaneously throw up a middle finger and also get the eff out and go enjoy my life. On the other hand, could create more resistance by saying and disrupting from within. Justice department people can typically go make bank when they leave tho.
Post by: Pete on February 14, 2025, 06:12:03 AM
They are definitely getting replaced by party members.Mass resignations used to be an alarm, but they really aren't anymore
For this administration it’s more of a feature
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 14, 2025, 05:55:01 PM
sorry dax this is just another one of those things you postedMusk: $1.4 billion dollars in loans from the Bank of China
Musk: Launching our satellites
Immediate national security concern
:lol:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 14, 2025, 11:17:43 PM
While ignoring that their boy gave $3 billion plus in sensitive contracts to the person mentioned 5 years ago.
Is the most onbrand #blueanongE thing one could ever possibly imagine . . . ever
LMAO
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 10:17:30 AM
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 11:10:09 AM
https://twitter.com/datarepublican/status/1890553883174531429?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: catastrophe on February 15, 2025, 11:11:57 AM
Post by: wetwillie on February 15, 2025, 11:22:25 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 15, 2025, 11:34:43 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 15, 2025, 01:49:33 PM
https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1889463679394980347?s=46
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Post by: Justwin on February 15, 2025, 01:55:38 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 02:11:09 PM
I’m looking forward to DOGE exposing all taxpayer expenses related to presidential golfing trips. When do you think we can expect that?Sure thing and should include the weekly trips to Delaware and the extended vacations in the Caribbean and Lake Tahoe etc etc for the previous POTUS. The mentally incapacitated President Full Lid (daily)
Jill sure misses her private 747
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 02:11:53 PM
The richest man in the world may be the biggest moron as wellOMG - it’s Derpcon One in SteveDave World
https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1889463679394980347?s=46
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Post by: steve dave on February 15, 2025, 02:48:00 PM
https://x.com/JustinWolfers/status/1890837187731578959
Post by: chum1 on February 15, 2025, 02:56:25 PM
It may not be true, but it's not that far-fetched to me that there are families out there collecting checks on dead family members, and the individual on whose behalf the money is being sent would be 150 years old if alive. 150 years old might be an exaggeration, but there were something like 19 million people born before 1920 with no death data on file at Social Security and 44,000 of them were collecting benefits still.
They didn't notice that basically everyone above age 100 was born on the exact same date 150 years ago. Incredibly sloppy at best.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 15, 2025, 04:00:34 PM
It may not be true, but it's not that far-fetched to me that there are families out there collecting checks on dead family members, and the individual on whose behalf the money is being sent would be 150 years old if alive. 150 years old might be an exaggeration, but there were something like 19 million people born before 1920 with no death data on file at Social Security and 44,000 of them were collecting benefits still.
They didn't notice that basically everyone above age 100 was born on the exact same date 150 years ago. Incredibly sloppy at best.
The point is they found the fraud
Post by: CHONGS on February 15, 2025, 04:26:38 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 15, 2025, 04:33:05 PM
Musk only keeping male children is kind of creepy.
Keeping as in interacts with?
Post by: CHONGS on February 15, 2025, 04:33:30 PM
As in let's his broodmares bare.Musk only keeping male children is kind of creepy.
Keeping as in interacts with?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 04:42:23 PM
lmaoWhere has Musk called what they’re doing “high tech data science”?
https://x.com/JustinWolfers/status/1890837187731578959
Anyone who thinks that it’s out of the realm of possibility that SS is still sending money to people who have been dead for a very long time should be rounded up and laughed at with zeal.
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 04:47:44 PM
LMAO
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1890177866085855461?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1890170500288241990?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1890385252809417166?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: Trim on February 15, 2025, 04:55:50 PM
Anyone who thinks that it’s out of the realm of possibility that SS is still sending money to people who have been dead for a very long time should be rounded up and laughed at with zeal.
Nothing is confirmed. So anyone saying it’s made up doesn’t have the first rough ridin' clue if it is or not.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 04:57:31 PM
Swooping in to protect Steve
So very onbrand.
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 04:59:14 PM
https://twitter.com/mikebenzcyber/status/1890891536365183481?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: nicname on February 15, 2025, 05:04:16 PM
Post by: CHONGS on February 15, 2025, 05:22:54 PM
Elon knocked up some MAGA podcaster Shawn Kemp style. Sexual degeneracy running rampant should come as no surprise.There was no sex I believe.
Post by: catastrophe on February 15, 2025, 05:36:53 PM
Would love to see all of it.I’m looking forward to DOGE exposing all taxpayer expenses related to presidential golfing trips. When do you think we can expect that?Sure thing and should include the weekly trips to Delaware and the extended vacations in the Caribbean and Lake Tahoe etc etc for the previous POTUS. The mentally incapacitated President Full Lid (daily)
Jill sure misses her private 747
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Post by: mocat on February 15, 2025, 05:44:41 PM
Would love to see all of it.I’m looking forward to DOGE exposing all taxpayer expenses related to presidential golfing trips. When do you think we can expect that?Sure thing and should include the weekly trips to Delaware and the extended vacations in the Caribbean and Lake Tahoe etc etc for the previous POTUS. The mentally incapacitated President Full Lid (daily)
Jill sure misses her private 747
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Not gEing, 100% thought this was referring to Joe's massive hog
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 05:57:54 PM
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Post by: steve dave on February 15, 2025, 07:20:14 PM
As in let's his broodmares bare.Musk only keeping male children is kind of creepy.
Keeping as in interacts with?
his dad had a kid with his own stepdaughter. nothing should come as a surprise but absolutely creepiest crap.
Post by: wetwillie on February 15, 2025, 07:21:31 PM
Post by: mocat on February 15, 2025, 07:43:31 PM
#blueanongE loves fantasizing about elder sexIt was her private 747
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Post by: star seed 7 on February 15, 2025, 07:44:35 PM
Post by: CHONGS on February 15, 2025, 08:19:03 PM
Elon has lots of daughters, not sure what Chingon is on about.Yeah I don't know where I got that. I must have pulled that straight out of my ass.
I thought I remembered hearing some bizarre trivia about the last several of his IVF kids being male.
Post by: Justwin on February 15, 2025, 08:56:00 PM
It may not be true, but it's not that far-fetched to me that there are families out there collecting checks on dead family members, and the individual on whose behalf the money is being sent would be 150 years old if alive. 150 years old might be an exaggeration, but there were something like 19 million people born before 1920 with no death data on file at Social Security and 44,000 of them were collecting benefits still.
They didn't notice that basically everyone above age 100 was born on the exact same date 150 years ago. Incredibly sloppy at best.
The report I was referencing was from 2023.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 09:03:05 PM
https://twitter.com/texaslindsay_/status/1889095097658024328?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: steve dave on February 15, 2025, 09:06:36 PM
https://x.com/brianglicklich/status/1890881845111251303?s=46
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Post by: steve dave on February 15, 2025, 10:49:04 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 15, 2025, 10:49:57 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2025, 10:54:40 PM
Goodness.
#blueanongE: Thy name is jealous AF
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Post by: Kat Kid on February 16, 2025, 06:32:42 AM
What a prodigious stud.
Goodness.
#blueanongE: Thy name is jealous AF
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Elon = STUD
Post by: Pete on February 16, 2025, 08:23:28 AM
I wonder how many of us work for someone (whether it be the CEO, board member, or director of a material shareholder wealth fund) who effectively grew up without an active father? Quite a few of us, I’d bet.
Post by: wetwillie on February 16, 2025, 08:34:11 AM
Post by: CNS on February 16, 2025, 08:57:44 AM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 16, 2025, 09:14:17 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 16, 2025, 11:06:51 AM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 16, 2025, 11:13:57 AM
Post by: chum1 on February 16, 2025, 11:40:24 AM
Quote
This isn’t even the strangest baby drama that Musk has been involved in. He once hid a separate set of twins with another woman from Grimes, while Grimes was also pregnant, and then used the name that Grimes had set aside for her child on one of the other woman’s twins.
https://bsky.app/profile/rmac.bsky.social/post/3liax2rni4s2n
Post by: wetwillie on February 16, 2025, 11:44:20 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 16, 2025, 12:04:59 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 16, 2025, 12:53:00 PM
https://x.com/JHWeissmann/status/1891157952909762985
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 16, 2025, 02:54:49 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 16, 2025, 07:31:36 PM
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Post by: LickNeckey on February 16, 2025, 07:35:06 PM
ffs
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 16, 2025, 07:36:23 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 16, 2025, 08:24:34 PM
So Elon is the father of those 4 women as well??? That’s not studly that’s just incredibly gross
As are those women’s faces
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 17, 2025, 10:03:11 AM
Post by: mocat on February 17, 2025, 10:07:23 AM
elon not actually having sex with these women is so maga it is literally perfectWait what
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 17, 2025, 10:20:47 AM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 17, 2025, 10:47:12 AM
Please reply below if you believed that Musk was having actual relations with all of these women . . .
I didn't. He is way to incel to be having sex, even with unattractive girls like those pictured
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 17, 2025, 11:05:11 AM
Please reply below if you believed that Musk was having actual relations with all of these women . . .
I didn't. He is way to incel to be having sex, even with unattractive girls like those pictured
Oh, okay dug
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 17, 2025, 11:07:01 AM
Please reply below if you believed that Musk was having actual relations with all of these women . . .
I didn't. He is way to incel to be having sex, even with unattractive girls like those pictured
Oh, okay dug
You're going to be very upset about elon not actually having any sex aren't you?
Post by: Pete on February 17, 2025, 11:16:32 AM
Post by: Pete on February 17, 2025, 11:17:19 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 17, 2025, 11:22:28 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 17, 2025, 11:22:41 AM
Please reply below if you believed that Musk was having actual relations with all of these women . . .
I didn't. He is way to incel to be having sex, even with unattractive girls like those pictured
Oh, okay dug
You're going to be very upset about elon not actually having any sex aren't you?
Not at all, I am just :lol: :lol: :lol: at you being the resident self proclaimed expert on all things Incel
But you are my go to for when I need an incel update, you never provide any links to what you allege is being said, but I am willing to take your word for it. :thumbsup:
Post by: Pete on February 17, 2025, 11:24:32 AM
Yeah I don't care about his copulation so much as how again deliciously terrible him and trump are of having multiple marriages and partners and crap tons of kids they are the defenders of conservative values. L O rough ridin' L.You’re gonna kill yourself if you spend any more time at all pointing out the hypocrisy. It’s staggering and unbelievable, yet here we are forced to accept it.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 17, 2025, 11:28:12 AM
Yeah I don't care about his copulation so much as how again deliciously terrible him and trump are of having multiple marriages and partners and crap tons of kids they are the defenders of conservative values. L O rough ridin' L.You’re gonna kill yourself if you spend any more time at all pointing out the hypocrisy. It’s staggering and unbelievable, yet here we are forced to accept it.
Oh not worried about it, just another thing any time my very religious friends ever bring any of their crap up to point out. It's more fun to see them squirm over it. Also just oging to keep hurting them more in the long run as they double down on this crap and hope others will follow. People already are leaving organized religion in droves, this guarantees it keeps going.
Post by: Pete on February 17, 2025, 11:28:43 AM
Yes, I indulge in that regularly myself.Yeah I don't care about his copulation so much as how again deliciously terrible him and trump are of having multiple marriages and partners and crap tons of kids they are the defenders of conservative values. L O rough ridin' L.You’re gonna kill yourself if you spend any more time at all pointing out the hypocrisy. It’s staggering and unbelievable, yet here we are forced to accept it.
Oh not worried about it, just another thing any time my very religious friends ever bring any of their crap up to point out. It's more fun to see them squirm over it.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 17, 2025, 11:40:23 AM
Yes, I indulge in that regularly myself.Yeah I don't care about his copulation so much as how again deliciously terrible him and trump are of having multiple marriages and partners and crap tons of kids they are the defenders of conservative values. L O rough ridin' L.You’re gonna kill yourself if you spend any more time at all pointing out the hypocrisy. It’s staggering and unbelievable, yet here we are forced to accept it.
Oh not worried about it, just another thing any time my very religious friends ever bring any of their crap up to point out. It's more fun to see them squirm over it.
Yup, and really I remember being a kid in church and how much emphasis was on looking out for the anti christ. And I always thought it was, maybe not impossible but like very obviously something is off or would be hard to do. Like the way Westboro church is viewed kinda thing. Now, now I can see it, if not already in action. Almost too easy
Post by: Cire on February 17, 2025, 11:45:44 AM
Jfc
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Post by: Trim on February 17, 2025, 11:49:17 AM
Let’s not act surprised about the richest guy on the rough ridin' planet being able to get laid just because he’s the richest guy on the planet.
He’s managed to not have any irl friends or social life all this time. :dunno:
Post by: Trim on February 17, 2025, 11:50:13 AM
https://twitter.com/kylekulinski/status/1891354496581709950?s=46&t=qihx_M5rao00w7e29gt7Rw
Jfc
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This presumes that the hitler tweet was a criticism.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 17, 2025, 11:50:37 AM
https://twitter.com/kylekulinski/status/1891354496581709950?s=46&t=qihx_M5rao00w7e29gt7Rw
Jfc
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
60 minutes pulled a couple of USAID contract workers in, and made the audience believe that they were USAID lifers.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 17, 2025, 11:51:46 AM
https://twitter.com/kylekulinski/status/1891354496581709950?s=46&t=qihx_M5rao00w7e29gt7Rw
Jfc
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This presumes that the hitler tweet was a criticism.
Yeah, not exactly the right assumption
Post by: cfbandyman on February 17, 2025, 11:52:55 AM
Let’s not act surprised about the richest guy on the rough ridin' planet being able to get laid just because he’s the richest guy on the planet.
He’s managed to not have any irl friends or social life all this time. :dunno:
Probably had them meet him at his bed on the factory floor. That's how all the good workers back in 1880 did it
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 17, 2025, 12:08:36 PM
Please reply below if you believed that Musk was having actual relations with all of these women . . .
I didn't. He is way to incel to be having sex, even with unattractive girls like those pictured
Oh, okay dug
You're going to be very upset about elon not actually having any sex aren't you?
Not at all, I am just :lol: :lol: :lol: at you being the resident self proclaimed expert on all things Incel
But you are my go to for when I need an incel update, you never provide any links to what you allege is being said, but I am willing to take your word for it. :thumbsup:
You don’t need to be hurt by this. Elon has never been into girls
Post by: wetwillie on February 17, 2025, 12:09:22 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 17, 2025, 12:28:28 PM
It was more funny haha when he was showing his ass calling people slurs after they didn't want him to attempt a cave rescue. I'm not laughing as much anymore, as he makes statements from the Oval Office.
Hey, that's when I stopped being a fan of Elon (the cave crap)!
Post by: chum1 on February 17, 2025, 12:36:24 PM
https://twitter.com/kylekulinski/status/1891354496581709950?s=46&t=qihx_M5rao00w7e29gt7Rw
Jfc
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This presumes that the hitler tweet was a criticism.
These people are acutely aware of media outlets (like old twitter) that they believe allow for too much speech that they do not agree with.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 17, 2025, 12:38:42 PM
Please reply below if you believed that Musk was having actual relations with all of these women . . .
I didn't. He is way to incel to be having sex, even with unattractive girls like those pictured
Oh, okay dug
You're going to be very upset about elon not actually having any sex aren't you?
Not at all, I am just :lol: :lol: :lol: at you being the resident self proclaimed expert on all things Incel
But you are my go to for when I need an incel update, you never provide any links to what you allege is being said, but I am willing to take your word for it. :thumbsup:
You don’t need to be hurt by this. Elon has never been into girls
If you say so #slowdug :thumbsup:
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 17, 2025, 12:45:01 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 17, 2025, 01:48:09 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 17, 2025, 01:49:15 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 17, 2025, 01:52:27 PM
him honking off and not actually even kissing this lady is very endearing to magas
it's cause having sex with women is gay (to them)
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 17, 2025, 01:53:33 PM
Azealia banks says grimes told her Elon has a botched penile implant :frown:
like, he had a micro peen and tried to get it bigger but that got screwed up and now he can't bone down ladies he can only crank it out and mail them his jizz with a venmo?
mega maga if so
Post by: cfbandyman on February 17, 2025, 01:53:36 PM
Azealia banks says grimes told her Elon has a botched penile implant :frown:
I think my favorite is his first wife saying at their wedding "I am the alpha" while dancing.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 17, 2025, 01:57:24 PM
Azealia banks says grimes told her Elon has a botched penile implant :frown:
like, he had a micro peen and tried to get it bigger but that got screwed up and now he can't bone down ladies he can only crank it out and mail them his jizz with a venmo?
mega maga if so
That is the way I took it
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 17, 2025, 02:35:40 PM
him honking off and not actually even kissing this lady is very endearing to magas
it's cause having sex with women is gay (to them)
icky
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 17, 2025, 03:02:17 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 17, 2025, 03:29:15 PM
Azealia banks says grimes told her Elon has a botched penile implant :frown:
like, he had a micro peen and tried to get it bigger but that got screwed up and now he can't bone down ladies he can only crank it out and mail them his jizz with a venmo?
mega maga if so
That is the way I took it
more than one way to taze your crank, i suppose
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 17, 2025, 03:38:11 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 17, 2025, 03:46:11 PM
Who ends up with more kids and baby mamas? Elon Musk or Tyreek Hill?
the number of women elon has paid to IVF will never be truly known because it's pretty embarassing to be a non-haver.
Post by: mocat on February 17, 2025, 03:57:05 PM
Azealia banks says grimes told her Elon has a botched penile implant :frown:
like, he had a micro peen and tried to get it bigger but that got screwed up and now he can't bone down ladies he can only crank it out and mail them his jizz with a venmo?
mega maga if so
That is the way I took it
Unlike the mothers, who did not.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 17, 2025, 04:57:00 PM
Azealia banks says grimes told her Elon has a botched penile implant :frown:
like, he had a micro peen and tried to get it bigger but that got screwed up and now he can't bone down ladies he can only crank it out and mail them his jizz with a venmo?
mega maga if so
That is the way I took it
Unlike the mothers, who did not.
Mocat to Elon
(https://media.tenor.com/SLU9OF7U3zcAAAAM/shaq-big-dunk.gif)
Post by: Trim on February 17, 2025, 09:26:04 PM
Post by: LickNeckey on February 18, 2025, 09:50:26 AM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 18, 2025, 10:03:35 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 18, 2025, 10:30:09 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 18, 2025, 10:37:38 AM
Pretty flimsy excuse to avoid accountability. Most courts wouldn’t bite.
It's hilariously stupid too. No, Elon is not in any way in charge of the thing he created, speaks non stop about, and is in charge of. Oh, ok, so the teenage tech bros barging in to government offices and getting access to personal taxpayer info are acting on their own? That seems even more illegal than the previous illegal version of this project???
Post by: cfbandyman on February 18, 2025, 10:49:12 AM
Pretty flimsy excuse to avoid accountability. Most courts wouldn’t bite.
It's hilariously stupid too. No, Elon is not in any way in charge of the thing he created, speaks non stop about, and is in charge of. Oh, ok, so the teenage tech bros barging in to government offices and getting access to personal taxpayer info are acting on their own? That seems even more illegal than the previous illegal version of this project???
Right, that is even worse. So they have, no authority to be there?
Trump calling musk a non having bitch will stir things up I bet
Oh they will turn on each other, or rather Trump will turn on Elon once he's done with him or doesn't find him useful. They are both the same type of person and eventually one will betray the other.
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on February 18, 2025, 10:59:52 AM
Glad that Trump 2.0 is stripping away the power and influence of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats and executive branch appointees.Pretty flimsy excuse to avoid accountability. Most courts wouldn’t bite.
It's hilariously stupid too. No, Elon is not in any way in charge of the thing he created, speaks non stop about, and is in charge of. Oh, ok, so the teenage tech bros barging in to government offices and getting access to personal taxpayer info are acting on their own? That seems even more illegal than the previous illegal version of this project???
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 18, 2025, 11:19:57 AM
Pretty flimsy excuse to avoid accountability. Most courts wouldn’t bite.
It's hilariously stupid too. No, Elon is not in any way in charge of the thing he created, speaks non stop about, and is in charge of. Oh, ok, so the teenage tech bros barging in to government offices and getting access to personal taxpayer info are acting on their own? That seems even more illegal than the previous illegal version of this project???
Right, that is even worse. So they have, no authority to be there?Trump calling musk a non having bitch will stir things up I bet
Oh they will turn on each other, or rather Trump will turn on Elon once he's done with him or doesn't find him useful. They are both the same type of person and eventually one will betray the other.
yeah, this is a tough one. its def going to happen at some point. I've predicted that they will push the old man out sooner than later so it will be interesting to see. The tech bros got couch rough rider the VP job so if they get Trump out, Elon and crew will have free rein to do whatever. That's probably an even worse spot than now. :dunno:
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 11:24:22 AM
Post by: mocat on February 18, 2025, 11:30:01 AM
I’ve seen mention to the age of the DOGE employees quite a bit on the news. What age do most folks think of when they think of skilled data analysis?Mid 30s
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 18, 2025, 11:43:34 AM
I’ve seen mention to the age of the DOGE employees quite a bit on the news. What age do most folks think of when they think of skilled data analysis?
smash and grabs don't take a ton of skill
Post by: wetwillie on February 18, 2025, 12:03:03 PM
I’ve seen mention to the age of the DOGE employees quite a bit on the news. What age do most folks think of when they think of skilled data analysis?
25 is the youngest I think would make sense to me. That would have to be an exceptional 25 year old though.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 18, 2025, 12:21:56 PM
I’ve seen mention to the age of the DOGE employees quite a bit on the news. What age do most folks think of when they think of skilled data analysis?
25 is the youngest I think would make sense to me. That would have to be an exceptional 25 year old though.
I guess what are you asking them to analyze. I would expect them to gather data, and generally understand what they are looking at as data. I would not expect them to understand contextually what any of it means. To me that is the real analysis.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 18, 2025, 12:26:53 PM
Seems very normal
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 12:52:00 PM
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 18, 2025, 12:55:57 PM
I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
IDK man, there is something experience just cant be taught. I have some really young people doing stuff for me and they're plenty smart, but also utterly cannot comprehend the big picture, nor would I expect them to. I would expect for them to very easily get info, but then do what with it.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 01:00:23 PM
I am a state school kid, and I will definitely say that there is a big difference between the type of kids at dear old KSU than the types of kids hand picked by some of world’s wealthiest tech oligarchs to work at Doge.I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
IDK man, there is something experience just cant be taught. I have some really young people doing stuff for me and they're plenty smart, but also utterly cannot comprehend the big picture, nor would I expect them to. I would expect for them to very easily get info, but then do what with it.
I think a more legitimate area of concern is their motives. I have zero concern about capabilities.
Post by: catastrophe on February 18, 2025, 01:03:56 PM
I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 18, 2025, 01:10:23 PM
If you're giving them what they consider uninteresting bullshit work, then they're not going to do it well.
Those types are typically absolutely horrible in customer facing roles, such as sales engineering that requires collaboration with sales and customers.
Post by: bucket on February 18, 2025, 01:20:45 PM
Post by: DQ12 on February 18, 2025, 01:43:03 PM
A 19 year old doesn’t know crap.Pete's right - 19 year olds can be real whizzes at analyzing massive amounts of information and patterns. Current chess world champion is 18 years old. Does a 19 year old have the wisdom on what to do with that analysis? Probably not, but i don't get the sense that the 19 year olds are the ones deciding to shut down USAID, etc.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 18, 2025, 01:52:26 PM
Pretty flimsy excuse to avoid accountability. Most courts wouldn’t bite.
It's hilariously stupid too. No, Elon is not in any way in charge of the thing he created, speaks non stop about, and is in charge of. Oh, ok, so the teenage tech bros barging in to government offices and getting access to personal taxpayer info are acting on their own? That seems even more illegal than the previous illegal version of this project???
Right, that is even worse. So they have, no authority to be there?Trump calling musk a non having bitch will stir things up I bet
Oh they will turn on each other, or rather Trump will turn on Elon once he's done with him or doesn't find him useful. They are both the same type of person and eventually one will betray the other.
MAGA is very nervous about the inevitable divorce
Post by: bucket on February 18, 2025, 01:55:53 PM
Pretty flimsy excuse to avoid accountability. Most courts wouldn’t bite.
It's hilariously stupid too. No, Elon is not in any way in charge of the thing he created, speaks non stop about, and is in charge of. Oh, ok, so the teenage tech bros barging in to government offices and getting access to personal taxpayer info are acting on their own? That seems even more illegal than the previous illegal version of this project???
Right, that is even worse. So they have, no authority to be there?Trump calling musk a non having bitch will stir things up I bet
Oh they will turn on each other, or rather Trump will turn on Elon once he's done with him or doesn't find him useful. They are both the same type of person and eventually one will betray the other.
MAGA is very nervous about the inevitable divorce
I think it’s all planned. The cuts will be unpopular. Trump can blame Elon. Elon doesn’t care because he gets whatever he wants (I.e. more government contracts, tax breaks, etc.).
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 18, 2025, 01:57:03 PM
A 19 year old doesn’t know crap.Pete's right - 19 year olds can be real whizzes at analyzing massive amounts of information and patterns. Current chess world champion is 18 years old. Does a 19 year old have the wisdom on what to do with that analysis? Probably not, but i don't get the sense that the 19 year olds are the ones deciding to shut down USAID, etc.
Then who is analyzing this information and shutting down/crippling these organizations? Not Elon apparently???
Post by: bucket on February 18, 2025, 02:06:42 PM
A 19 year old doesn’t know crap.Pete's right - 19 year olds can be real whizzes at analyzing massive amounts of information and patterns. Current chess world champion is 18 years old. Does a 19 year old have the wisdom on what to do with that analysis? Probably not, but i don't get the sense that the 19 year olds are the ones deciding to shut down USAID, etc.
Then who is analyzing this information and shutting down/crippling these organizations? Not Elon apparently???
I’m thinking strictly about the college classes and programming languages they would need to know to be at the top of their field. One year of college doesn’t prepare you for crap.
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2025, 02:41:11 PM
I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 18, 2025, 02:58:42 PM
I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
Right, I think it's that. There a tons of very smart people in fields all over. I think there is a difference in having the vision to do something completely new/different, and just being able to understand high level topics. It still never ceases to amaze me how much blue collar workers love to pull crap time and time again over a young engineer's head simply due to lack of experience (myself included). And that's my point with these kids. They are very smart, but they have very little concept in the "why" and "how" parts of the problem.
I think the biggest problem is so many journalists, especially business ones, are easy wowed by flashy tech-jargony stuff cause they themselves do not understand it. They understand the business side, not the technical side, so to them a guy speaking like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w
Seems smart AF. It's then selling that to business people in a way that actually makes money that is what i agree with rusty, lighting in a bottle.
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2025, 03:08:01 PM
I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
Right, I think it's that. There a tons of very smart people in fields all over. I think there is a difference in having the vision to do something completely new/different, and just being able to understand high level topics. It still never ceases to amaze me how much blue collar workers love to pull crap time and time again over a young engineer's head simply due to lack of experience (myself included). And that's my point with these kids. They are very smart, but they have very little concept in the "why" and "how" parts of the problem.
I think the biggest problem is so many journalists, especially business ones, are easy wowed by flashy tech-jargony stuff cause they themselves do not understand it. They understand the business side, not the technical side, so to them a guy speaking like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w
Seems smart AF. It's then selling that to business people in a way that actually makes money that is what i agree with rusty, lighting in a bottle.
I mean a lot of VC's are easily fooled too. Or at least wilfully obtuse. The Theranos story is especially enlightening.
Post by: chum1 on February 18, 2025, 03:32:34 PM
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8Y4CY1W/
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 03:47:07 PM
I’m not alleging that the oligarchs are smart, I’m alleging that the oligarchs have the resources to go get the smartest people.I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 18, 2025, 03:52:00 PM
The DOD: Failed 7 straight audits
Discovered: A $4.7 Trillion dollar line item with untold numbers of transactions against it, transactions that had virtually no description as to what they were for . .
USAID: A $60 to $70 billion dollar annual money laundering operation - of which massive chunks ended up in the hands of #blueanon politically connected and anti-Trumpers
#blueanon/#blueanongE - is still going to fight this every single step of the way, tho :thumbsup:
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 03:56:19 PM
I also predict that we will continue to have an exceptionally large divide among voters in the approval rating of the actions that the administration took based on Doge’s findings.
Devout democrats are in a tricky spot. It would be very hurtful to the Democrats if doge found a high volume of waste and fraud and doge ended up hitting its goal of $1 trillion in savings. https://youtube.com/shorts/IzvHnRVcwY0?si=H8VJ61mgkPNAN6Wz
On the other hand devout democrats will be in a perfect position to crush maga if the administration cuts programs in a way that negatively impacts a majority of voters and also fails to achieve their savings goal. Doge could push left leaning republicans toward the democrats if they fail.
Post by: CHONGS on February 18, 2025, 03:59:18 PM
Post by: CHONGS on February 18, 2025, 03:59:51 PM
https://themercury.com/news/source-at-least-28-nbaf-employees-fired-as-part-of-usdas-cuts/article_12087e38-ed5a-11ef-9771-87bba050d7f1.html
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:03:13 PM
Waste:Oh, there’s a eff load of partisan ideological culling happening.
https://themercury.com/news/source-at-least-28-nbaf-employees-fired-as-part-of-usdas-cuts/article_12087e38-ed5a-11ef-9771-87bba050d7f1.html
Do you allege that there is zero fraud or waste being identified ?
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:06:30 PM
The Democratic Party knew exactly what was on the line, and they made their choice.
Post by: CHONGS on February 18, 2025, 04:08:02 PM
Waste:Oh, there’s a eff load of partisan ideological culling happening.
https://themercury.com/news/source-at-least-28-nbaf-employees-fired-as-part-of-usdas-cuts/article_12087e38-ed5a-11ef-9771-87bba050d7f1.html
Do you allege that there is zero fraud or waste being identified ?
No I don't. There is probably some waste getting identified, but likely through happenstance and the process is hopelessly malignant.
I am not a nihilistic burn-it-down kind of guy, so I doubt we'll agree on how DOGE operates or it's goals
I do not believe that the ends justify the means.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:09:17 PM
Do you believe that good intentions justify any horrible outcome?Waste:Oh, there’s a eff load of partisan ideological culling happening.
https://themercury.com/news/source-at-least-28-nbaf-employees-fired-as-part-of-usdas-cuts/article_12087e38-ed5a-11ef-9771-87bba050d7f1.html
Do you allege that there is zero fraud or waste being identified ?
No I don't. There is probably some waste getting identified, but likely through happenstance and the process is hopelessly malignant.
I am not a nihilistic burn-it-down kind of guy, so I doubt we'll agree on how DOGE operates or it's goals
I do not believe that the ends justify the means.
Post by: CHONGS on February 18, 2025, 04:13:37 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2025, 04:14:56 PM
I’m not alleging that the oligarchs are smart, I’m alleging that the oligarchs have the resources to go get the smartest people.I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
I was talking about their "people" as well. I'm alleging the tech oligarchs don't necessarily get the smartest people (however you want to define it)
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:15:14 PM
Also, I don’t think of myself as a nihilistic burn-it-down kind of guy. Are you accusing me of being a nihilistic burn-it-down kind of guy, or of being a guy who agrees with the operations of nihilistic burn-it-down kind of guys?Waste:Oh, there’s a eff load of partisan ideological culling happening.
https://themercury.com/news/source-at-least-28-nbaf-employees-fired-as-part-of-usdas-cuts/article_12087e38-ed5a-11ef-9771-87bba050d7f1.html
Do you allege that there is zero fraud or waste being identified ?
No I don't. There is probably some waste getting identified, but likely through happenstance and the process is hopelessly malignant.
I am not a nihilistic burn-it-down kind of guy, so I doubt we'll agree on how DOGE operates or it's goals
I do not believe that the ends justify the means.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:16:54 PM
Justify? Clearly no, I just said that.That’s not at all what you said. You referred to the ends, and made no mention of intent. What makes a good act a good act in your opinion?
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:17:25 PM
Well, in this country, the best players go to the teams with the best paychecks.I’m not alleging that the oligarchs are smart, I’m alleging that the oligarchs have the resources to go get the smartest people.I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
I was talking about their "people" as well. I'm alleging the tech oligarchs don't necessarily get the smartest people (however you want to define it)
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 18, 2025, 04:19:27 PM
My prediction is that at some date in the future upon reflection, a solid majority of voters will agree that Doge did indeed find a very high level of waste and fraud.
I also predict that we will continue to have an exceptionally large divide among voters in the approval rating of the actions that the administration took based on Doge’s findings.
Devout democrats are in a tricky spot. It would be very hurtful to the Democrats if doge found a high volume of waste and fraud and doge ended up hitting its goal of $1 trillion in savings. https://youtube.com/shorts/IzvHnRVcwY0?si=H8VJ61mgkPNAN6Wz
On the other hand devout democrats will be in a perfect position to crush maga if the administration cuts programs in a way that negatively impacts a majority of voters and also fails to achieve their savings goal. Doge could push left leaning republicans toward the democrats if they fail.
Lol. Democrats are just absolutely horrendous at modern politics and messaging. They could be having a press conference every day about the everyday people that are getting wrecked by all of this. Farmers, government workers, veterans, etc. They could literally be doing this every day at the steps of these buildings. Yet, they are just sitting back and letting MAGA control the message as always. It's amazing how shitty they are at this.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:19:54 PM
I agree completely with youMy prediction is that at some date in the future upon reflection, a solid majority of voters will agree that Doge did indeed find a very high level of waste and fraud.
I also predict that we will continue to have an exceptionally large divide among voters in the approval rating of the actions that the administration took based on Doge’s findings.
Devout democrats are in a tricky spot. It would be very hurtful to the Democrats if doge found a high volume of waste and fraud and doge ended up hitting its goal of $1 trillion in savings. https://youtube.com/shorts/IzvHnRVcwY0?si=H8VJ61mgkPNAN6Wz
On the other hand devout democrats will be in a perfect position to crush maga if the administration cuts programs in a way that negatively impacts a majority of voters and also fails to achieve their savings goal. Doge could push left leaning republicans toward the democrats if they fail.
Lol. Democrats are just absolutely horrendous at modern politics and messaging. They could be having a press conference every day about the everyday people that are getting wrecked by all of this. Farmers, government workers, veterans, etc. They could literally be doing this every day at the steps of these buildings. Yet, they are just sitting back and letting MAGA control the message as always. It's amazing how shitty they are at this.
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2025, 04:20:48 PM
Well, in this country, the best players go to the teams with the best paychecks.I’m not alleging that the oligarchs are smart, I’m alleging that the oligarchs have the resources to go get the smartest people.I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
I was talking about their "people" as well. I'm alleging the tech oligarchs don't necessarily get the smartest people (however you want to define it)
That isn't necessarily the case.
But what is Doge paying these kids, anyway?
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:21:36 PM
My guess is cloutWell, in this country, the best players go to the teams with the best paychecks.I’m not alleging that the oligarchs are smart, I’m alleging that the oligarchs have the resources to go get the smartest people.I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
I was talking about their "people" as well. I'm alleging the tech oligarchs don't necessarily get the smartest people (however you want to define it)
That isn't necessarily the case.
But what is Doge paying these kids, anyway?
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:22:37 PM
Post by: CHONGS on February 18, 2025, 04:26:18 PM
Justify? Clearly no, I just said that.That’s not at all what you said. You referred to the ends, and made no mention of intent. What makes a good act a good act in your opinion?
Maybe I didn't understand you then. You asked:
Do you believe that good intentions justify any horrible outcome?
The end is what the intent wants to reach. The means are how to get there. Good intentions are perhaps seeking good ends, but a good end doesn't justify any process to get there.
Post by: catastrophe on February 18, 2025, 04:27:00 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2025, 04:29:26 PM
Like the US attorneys office used to be. It doesn’t pay very well at all, and neither do federal judicial clerkships. They are stop over points for clout and experience that yield huge rewards later…. Or so goes the theory.
I agree that there are multiple factors that determine where smartest people decide to work.
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2025, 04:30:46 PM
What incentive do oligarchs have to hire smart people? They only need to hire people that will do what they're told.
which is really the most logical reason for hiring kids who can pass a coding test (and have racist social media posts)
Post by: CHONGS on February 18, 2025, 04:31:35 PM
And that's even in the case that the actions did lead to net reduction waste, which I believe in this case is also quite debatable.
Post by: chum1 on February 18, 2025, 04:32:37 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 18, 2025, 04:36:17 PM
Well, in this country, the best players go to the teams with the best paychecks.I’m not alleging that the oligarchs are smart, I’m alleging that the oligarchs have the resources to go get the smartest people.I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
I was talking about their "people" as well. I'm alleging the tech oligarchs don't necessarily get the smartest people (however you want to define it)
I'm guessing these people were chosen specifically because they are young and dumb enough to not understand that they are performing work that could easily land them in prison.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 18, 2025, 04:40:49 PM
Well, in this country, the best players go to the teams with the best paychecks.I’m not alleging that the oligarchs are smart, I’m alleging that the oligarchs have the resources to go get the smartest people.I get that it’s edgy and fashionable to discredit the DOGE team, but I bet the average standardized test score of the DOGE team is 95th to 99th percentile. No shortage of raw intellectual horsepower. If they have supervisor(s) that have the accumulated wisdom enough to direct a young talented team, then that’s basically the recipe for all global process and IT consulting, but with better raw talent.
Their motives and the motives of the leadership are a separate matter.
I've spent a fair amount of time around people with incredibly high standardized scores and Ivy League degrees. I've not seen any consistent correlation between those credentials and actual work performance.
yes. 99th percentile test scores is not special in the workplace. 95th percentile scores will actually get you rejected from a good number of state schools these days
I've tried to get this point through to Pete many ways, but tech oligarchs and their people are not typically exceptionally smart, they have just caught lighting in a bottle in some way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, there are very many smart people (just as there are outside of Silicon Valley or Wall Street), but they aren't mind-blowingly smart. They were mostly just in the right place at the right time.
I was talking about their "people" as well. I'm alleging the tech oligarchs don't necessarily get the smartest people (however you want to define it)
I'm guessing these people were chosen specifically because they are young and dumb enough to not understand that they are performing work that could easily land them in prison.
Yup, and basically unpaid interns
https://thehill.com/business/4990829-musk-doge-will-be-tedious-work-with-zero-compensation/
https://fortune.com/2025/02/12/elon-musk-doge-doubles-budget-government-spending-cuts/
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:43:27 PM
We’re definitely wrestling with stuff here that humans have been wrestling with for an awful long time.Justify? Clearly no, I just said that.That’s not at all what you said. You referred to the ends, and made no mention of intent. What makes a good act a good act in your opinion?
Maybe I didn't understand you then. You asked:
Do you believe that good intentions justify any horrible outcome?
The end is what the intent wants to reach. The means are how to get there. Good intentions are perhaps seeking good ends, but a good end doesn't justify any process to get there.
My personal preference is rule based utilitarianism. We set up a framework that tries to maximize aggregate net benefit, and where resources allow we indulge in case by case examination. But, it’s an awful big damn country.
Post by: CHONGS on February 18, 2025, 04:49:02 PM
We’re definitely wrestling with stuff here that humans have been wrestling with for an awful long time.Justify? Clearly no, I just said that.That’s not at all what you said. You referred to the ends, and made no mention of intent. What makes a good act a good act in your opinion?
Maybe I didn't understand you then. You asked:
Do you believe that good intentions justify any horrible outcome?
The end is what the intent wants to reach. The means are how to get there. Good intentions are perhaps seeking good ends, but a good end doesn't justify any process to get there.
My personal preference is rule based utilitarian. We set up a framework that tries to maximize aggregate net benefit, and where resources allow we indulge in case by case examination. But, it’s an awful big damn country.
I suspected that you were a utilitarian. I have pretty big issues with utilitarianism and it's ability (IMO) to justify pretty horrendous atrocities. In fact I think all of the great atrocities I can think of were probably justified by the perpetrators as creating a net good for the world.
CS Lewis has a pretty great quote for this I like:
I can imagine no man who will look with more horror on the End than a conscientious revolutionary who has, in a sense sincerely, been justifying cruelties and injustices inflicted on millions of his contemporaries by the benefits which he hopes to confer on future generations.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:50:34 PM
It would be pretty hypocritical of someone like me to get Ben out of shape about Trump doing the same type of crap that Obama did. I think Trump’s taking it farther, but I have no doubt that the next left leaning president will take it even farther than Trump.
When the tides turn again, left leaning initiatives will come sweeping through.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 04:51:10 PM
Well, good luck, implementing your case by case analysis system on a global scale.We’re definitely wrestling with stuff here that humans have been wrestling with for an awful long time.Justify? Clearly no, I just said that.That’s not at all what you said. You referred to the ends, and made no mention of intent. What makes a good act a good act in your opinion?
Maybe I didn't understand you then. You asked:
Do you believe that good intentions justify any horrible outcome?
The end is what the intent wants to reach. The means are how to get there. Good intentions are perhaps seeking good ends, but a good end doesn't justify any process to get there.
My personal preference is rule based utilitarian. We set up a framework that tries to maximize aggregate net benefit, and where resources allow we indulge in case by case examination. But, it’s an awful big damn country.
I suspected that you were a utilitarian. I have pretty big issues with utilitarianism and it's ability (IMO) to justify pretty horrendous atrocities. In fact I think all of the great atrocities I can think of were probably justified by the perpetrators as creating a net good for the world.
CS Lewis has a pretty great quote for this I like:
I can imagine no man who will look with more horror on the End than a conscientious revolutionary who has, in a sense sincerely, been justifying cruelties and injustices inflicted on millions of his contemporaries by the benefits which he hopes to confer on future generations.
Post by: CHONGS on February 18, 2025, 04:52:57 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 18, 2025, 04:53:26 PM
Look at the bright side here guys. the standard is that the winner of the presidential contest gets the spoils. Obama really got this motherfuckering Pandora’s box of presidential power rolling launching Obama care and host of other executive orders that I cheered. I loved Obamacare (and still do), but I didn’t think it went far enough. I would have supported Obama go even further and trampling on our system of government to enact universal healthcare.
It would be pretty hypocritical of someone like me to get Ben out of shape about Trump doing the same type of crap that Obama did. I think Trump’s taking it farther, but I have no doubt that the next left leaning president will take it even farther than Trump.
When the tides turn again, left leaning initiatives will come sweeping through.
That would be every bit as terrible as this is.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:00:31 PM
Well, I for one was not complaining during the implementation of Obamacare.Look at the bright side here guys. the standard is that the winner of the presidential contest gets the spoils. Obama really got this motherfuckering Pandora’s box of presidential power rolling launching Obama care and host of other executive orders that I cheered. I loved Obamacare (and still do), but I didn’t think it went far enough. I would have supported Obama go even further and trampling on our system of government to enact universal healthcare.
It would be pretty hypocritical of someone like me to get Ben out of shape about Trump doing the same type of crap that Obama did. I think Trump’s taking it farther, but I have no doubt that the next left leaning president will take it even farther than Trump.
When the tides turn again, left leaning initiatives will come sweeping through.
That would be every bit as terrible as this is.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 18, 2025, 05:01:05 PM
Well, I for one was not complaining during the implementation of Obamacare.Look at the bright side here guys. the standard is that the winner of the presidential contest gets the spoils. Obama really got this motherfuckering Pandora’s box of presidential power rolling launching Obama care and host of other executive orders that I cheered. I loved Obamacare (and still do), but I didn’t think it went far enough. I would have supported Obama go even further and trampling on our system of government to enact universal healthcare.
It would be pretty hypocritical of someone like me to get Ben out of shape about Trump doing the same type of crap that Obama did. I think Trump’s taking it farther, but I have no doubt that the next left leaning president will take it even farther than Trump.
When the tides turn again, left leaning initiatives will come sweeping through.
That would be every bit as terrible as this is.
Congress implemented Obamacare.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 18, 2025, 05:01:10 PM
gaining access to a databse and hitting ctrl + f for "transition" because you hate trans people and then cancelling a program for mentally disabled youth to transition them into independence and adulthood. All of it done with Musk acting like a smug bad person that was elected king of the world and everyone is his subject.
https://www.fxbgadvance.com/p/the-executive-order-project-education-960 (https://www.fxbgadvance.com/p/the-executive-order-project-education-960)
What at all is appealing about this Pete? I think you should consider logging off.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:01:55 PM
The answer isn't that binary, but I'll try my best to be the best person I can.Of course, and I agree with that and try to do the same. It’s just super duper complicated to apply personal ethical frameworks on massive complex systems of government.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:07:06 PM
Well, I for one was not complaining during the implementation of Obamacare.Look at the bright side here guys. the standard is that the winner of the presidential contest gets the spoils. Obama really got this motherfuckering Pandora’s box of presidential power rolling launching Obama care and host of other executive orders that I cheered. I loved Obamacare (and still do), but I didn’t think it went far enough. I would have supported Obama go even further and trampling on our system of government to enact universal healthcare.
It would be pretty hypocritical of someone like me to get Ben out of shape about Trump doing the same type of crap that Obama did. I think Trump’s taking it farther, but I have no doubt that the next left leaning president will take it even farther than Trump.
When the tides turn again, left leaning initiatives will come sweeping through.
That would be every bit as terrible as this is.
Congress implemented Obamacare.
He had a litany of executive orders that I agreed with that pissed off the right, and I apologize if I am misapplying that to Obamacare. Here’s an excerpt from a recent Wall Street journal editorial board piece
Quote
Mr. Trump is stretching laws to see what he can get away with, but so have other recent Presidents. Barack Obama touted his pen-and-a-phone strategy of ruling by decree. “So sue me,” he taunted House Republicans. The Supreme Court blocked his Clean Power Plan and DAPA, which protected millions of undocumented immigrants from deportation.
Joe Biden exceeded his power by canceling student loans, mandating vaccines and banning evictions, among other overreaches. After the Supreme Court blocked his first loan write-off, he declared “that didn’t stop me” and used other illegal means. The Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals last year rebuked his Administration for turning a lower-court injunction on his SAVE plan into a “nullity.”
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:08:08 PM
I think there is a ton of evidence in on the people, the intent, the means, and the results and all are pretty bad.Nothing is appealing about it. It’s merely an extension of the same thing we have seen from the left.
gaining access to a databse and hitting ctrl + f for "transition" because you hate trans people and then cancelling a program for mentally disabled youth to transition them into independence and adulthood. All of it done with Musk acting like a smug bad person that was elected king of the world and everyone is his subject.
https://www.fxbgadvance.com/p/the-executive-order-project-education-960 (https://www.fxbgadvance.com/p/the-executive-order-project-education-960)
What at all is appealing about this Pete? I think you should consider logging off.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:13:12 PM
And the incompetence of the Democratic Party has left us in this position and I am very angry about that.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:18:30 PM
To his great credit, Obama did understand that social change takes time.
Quote
In 2008, during his first presidential campaign, Barack Obama stated that he supported civil unions for same-sex couples but did not endorse same-sex marriage. He expressed this view in various interviews and during debates, citing personal and religious beliefs while also emphasizing equal rights.
However, his stance evolved over time. In May 2012, during an interview with ABC News, Obama publicly announced his support for same-sex marriage, making him the first sitting U.S. president to do so. He explained that his views had changed after conversations with friends, staff, and his daughters, who questioned why same-sex couples should be treated differently. This shift was seen as a significant moment in the movement toward marriage equality in the U.S.
What would have happened if Obama decided to die on the gay marriage hill in 2008? Would we have Obama care?
Similarly, what would have happened if the Democratic Party had not allowed itself to be dominated by voices calling for the most progressive trans rights to be immediately available? Would doge exist today?
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:19:45 PM
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:23:25 PM
I am done with voting the party line for Democrats. The Democratic party no longer deserves my support and I am taking some small pleasure in watching them see the consequences of their choices.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 18, 2025, 05:24:37 PM
This is the American system we signed up for and cheered for when it was the left making the judgement calls and slamming stuff through.
And the incompetence of the Democratic Party has left us in this position and I am very angry about that.
It's not remotely the same, Pete. And there is no way you actually believe they are similar.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:24:57 PM
Are the mechanics not similar? Every member of Democratic leadership knew this is precisely what would happen starting in April 2023, and a likely much before that.This is the American system we signed up for and cheered for when it was the left making the judgement calls and slamming stuff through.
And the incompetence of the Democratic Party has left us in this position and I am very angry about that.
It's not remotely the same, Pete. And there is no way you actually believe they are similar.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 18, 2025, 05:25:16 PM
Are the mechanics not similar?This is the American system we signed up for and cheered for when it was the left making the judgement calls and slamming stuff through.
And the incompetence of the Democratic Party has left us in this position and I am very angry about that.
It's not remotely the same, Pete. And there is no way you actually believe they are similar.
No, they are not.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 18, 2025, 05:26:46 PM
This is the American system we signed up for and cheered for when it was the left making the judgement calls and slamming stuff through.
And the incompetence of the Democratic Party has left us in this position and I am very angry about that.
Pete while I think it’s a pretty disingenuous comparison of what doge is doing vs implementing Obamacare, at least Obamacare was providing a much needed service, and it was available to the people who needed it? Doge is taking a chainsaw to a bonsai tree, and for the sake of saving pennies. I won't try to argue that Obamacare didn't indirectly cause some folks to lose their jobs, but the roll out didn't come with firing a crap ton of people
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:27:36 PM
Well, that’s a matter for the Supreme Court to decide, not you and I.Are the mechanics not similar?This is the American system we signed up for and cheered for when it was the left making the judgement calls and slamming stuff through.
And the incompetence of the Democratic Party has left us in this position and I am very angry about that.
It's not remotely the same, Pete. And there is no way you actually believe they are similar.
No, they are not.
Post by: Pete on February 18, 2025, 05:28:18 PM
The Democrats made their choices, these are the consequences.This is the American system we signed up for and cheered for when it was the left making the judgement calls and slamming stuff through.
And the incompetence of the Democratic Party has left us in this position and I am very angry about that.
Pete while I think it’s a pretty disingenuous comparison of what doge is doing vs implementing Obamacare, at least Obamacare was providing a much needed service, and it was available to the people who needed it? Doge is taking a chainsaw to a bonsai tree, and for the sake of saving pennies. I won't try to argue that Obamacare didn't indirectly cause some folks to lose their jobs, but the roll out didn't come with firing a crap ton of people
Post by: CNS on February 18, 2025, 05:51:10 PM
My prediction is that at some date in the future upon reflection, a solid majority of voters will agree that Doge did indeed find a very high level of waste and fraud.
I also predict that we will continue to have an exceptionally large divide among voters in the approval rating of the actions that the administration took based on Doge’s findings.
Devout democrats are in a tricky spot. It would be very hurtful to the Democrats if doge found a high volume of waste and fraud and doge ended up hitting its goal of $1 trillion in savings. https://youtube.com/shorts/IzvHnRVcwY0?si=H8VJ61mgkPNAN6Wz
On the other hand devout democrats will be in a perfect position to crush maga if the administration cuts programs in a way that negatively impacts a majority of voters and also fails to achieve their savings goal. Doge could push left leaning republicans toward the democrats if they fail.
Lol. Democrats are just absolutely horrendous at modern politics and messaging. They could be having a press conference every day about the everyday people that are getting wrecked by all of this. Farmers, government workers, veterans, etc. They could literally be doing this every day at the steps of these buildings. Yet, they are just sitting back and letting MAGA control the message as always. It's amazing how shitty they are at this.
The dems have been literally trying to push hope and progress. Today's politics is nearly completely driven and empowered by crap posting and a lot of levels. I am not sure how to set up a national level trolling that also comes across as hopefull and good for people. It is super easy to do if your message is hate and discontent. Good governance may be impossible to gain if we all have to act like idiots throughout the entire process.
Post by: CHONGS on February 18, 2025, 05:52:15 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 18, 2025, 06:39:58 PM
My prediction is that at some date in the future upon reflection, a solid majority of voters will agree that Doge did indeed find a very high level of waste and fraud.
I also predict that we will continue to have an exceptionally large divide among voters in the approval rating of the actions that the administration took based on Doge’s findings.
Devout democrats are in a tricky spot. It would be very hurtful to the Democrats if doge found a high volume of waste and fraud and doge ended up hitting its goal of $1 trillion in savings. https://youtube.com/shorts/IzvHnRVcwY0?si=H8VJ61mgkPNAN6Wz
On the other hand devout democrats will be in a perfect position to crush maga if the administration cuts programs in a way that negatively impacts a majority of voters and also fails to achieve their savings goal. Doge could push left leaning republicans toward the democrats if they fail.
Lol. Democrats are just absolutely horrendous at modern politics and messaging. They could be having a press conference every day about the everyday people that are getting wrecked by all of this. Farmers, government workers, veterans, etc. They could literally be doing this every day at the steps of these buildings. Yet, they are just sitting back and letting MAGA control the message as always. It's amazing how shitty they are at this.
The dems have been literally trying to push hope and progress. Today's politics is nearly completely driven and empowered by crap posting and a lot of levels. I am not sure how to set up a national level trolling that also comes across as hopefull and good for people. It is super easy to do if your message is hate and discontent. Good governance may be impossible to gain if we all have to act like idiots throughout the entire process.
While I do agree that is way easier to be on the R side. They love a boogyman (rough ridin' love them) and they have the ability to change the thing that they want the dummies to be afraid of at any point so they can keep picking their pockets. The DOGE crap is easy messaging though. Regular people are being hurt by lots of this. Get on the rough ridin' news and talk about it more. It's not an original idea, but have a press conference when jobs are lost. Interview those people. Do rough ridin' something. I don't do much social media so maybe they are and I just don't know???
Post by: CNS on February 18, 2025, 06:41:40 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 18, 2025, 06:46:47 PM
Post by: DQ12 on February 18, 2025, 08:21:14 PM
Wholly agree with this. I’m also a pretty big CS stan.We’re definitely wrestling with stuff here that humans have been wrestling with for an awful long time.Justify? Clearly no, I just said that.That’s not at all what you said. You referred to the ends, and made no mention of intent. What makes a good act a good act in your opinion?
Maybe I didn't understand you then. You asked:
Do you believe that good intentions justify any horrible outcome?
The end is what the intent wants to reach. The means are how to get there. Good intentions are perhaps seeking good ends, but a good end doesn't justify any process to get there.
My personal preference is rule based utilitarian. We set up a framework that tries to maximize aggregate net benefit, and where resources allow we indulge in case by case examination. But, it’s an awful big damn country.
I suspected that you were a utilitarian. I have pretty big issues with utilitarianism and it's ability (IMO) to justify pretty horrendous atrocities. In fact I think all of the great atrocities I can think of were probably justified by the perpetrators as creating a net good for the world.
CS Lewis has a pretty great quote for this I like:
I can imagine no man who will look with more horror on the End than a conscientious revolutionary who has, in a sense sincerely, been justifying cruelties and injustices inflicted on millions of his contemporaries by the benefits which he hopes to confer on future generations.
Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2025, 08:11:51 AM
https://x.com/electricfutures/status/1891898336208105676
Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2025, 08:22:01 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 19, 2025, 08:38:53 AM
Like I honestly wouldn't be surprised if doge ends up saving virtually nothing in the end when you consider lawsuits and fees for breaking leases and a general misunderstanding of his government contacts work.
S you're saying a made up department staffed by newbies who know nothing "lead" by an official/unofficial dude with the sole purpose of making it look like they do anything who is the biggest overpromise under deliver guy since the actual dude in the white house isn't going to save any money?
:Wha:
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 19, 2025, 08:50:21 AM
Like I honestly wouldn't be surprised if doge ends up saving virtually nothing in the end when you consider lawsuits and fees for breaking leases and a general misunderstanding of his government contacts work.
Are we still getting our $5k?
Post by: chum1 on February 19, 2025, 09:00:34 AM
https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/global-trends/doge-says-its-saved-trump-government-55-billion-itemized-data-show-far-less/articleshow/118385995.cms
Post by: MakeItRain on February 19, 2025, 09:32:21 AM
$4.2 trillion spent and not even a little 4 word blip about what each check was for?
Seems very normal
I guess I'm surprised you're taking their word on this, they lie a lot and there has been no data dump on this $4.2 trillion. Also they routinely give different amounts for the same figure wasted/saved/or whatever they are lying about at the time. What is this $4.2 trillion referring to?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 19, 2025, 09:39:42 AM
$4.2 trillion spent and not even a little 4 word blip about what each check was for?
Seems very normal
I guess I'm surprised you're taking their word on this, they lie a lot and there has been no data dump on this $4.2 trillion. Also they routinely give different amounts for the same figure wasted/saved/or whatever they are lying about at the time. What is this $4.2 trillion referring to?
I'm not surprised he's taking their word on this at all.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 19, 2025, 09:40:35 AM
Post by: Cire on February 19, 2025, 10:12:54 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250219/ad2ebc02245848f9372ff81f20537c9a.jpg)
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Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 19, 2025, 10:22:15 AM
Post by: MakeItRain on February 19, 2025, 10:32:46 AM
Look at the bright side here guys. the standard is that the winner of the presidential contest gets the spoils. Obama really got this motherfuckering Pandora’s box of presidential power rolling launching Obama care and host of other executive orders that I cheered. I loved Obamacare (and still do), but I didn’t think it went far enough. I would have supported Obama go even further and trampling on our system of government to enact universal healthcare.
It would be pretty hypocritical of someone like me to get Ben out of shape about Trump doing the same type of crap that Obama did. I think Trump’s taking it farther, but I have no doubt that the next left leaning president will take it even farther than Trump.
When the tides turn again, left leaning initiatives will come sweeping through.
That would be every bit as terrible as this is.
eh, nah, not at all. I think this is far too cavalier about what's happening here. People who make $60,000 a year are being tossed on their ass and not even given unemployment benefits. The things being hacked apart will never be replicated by dems, not that we'd ever find out, they don't have the stomach to do whatever the inverse of this is.
Post by: Brock Landers on February 19, 2025, 11:16:28 AM
Like I honestly wouldn't be surprised if doge ends up saving virtually nothing in the end when you consider lawsuits and fees for breaking leases and a general misunderstanding of his government contacts work.
Are we still getting our $5k?
$5k? Pffft, the DOGE Dividend checks will be like $700 and they will brag about how smart Elon is and how much he loves ordinary Americans by returning their hard earned tax dollars back to them. And it will work.
Post by: steve dave on February 19, 2025, 06:05:14 PM
https://x.com/theviewfromll2/status/1892291090645987495?s=46
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Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2025, 08:53:32 PM
lmaolol these fuckin morons
https://x.com/theviewfromll2/status/1892291090645987495?s=46
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Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 19, 2025, 10:41:35 PM
lmao
https://x.com/theviewfromll2/status/1892291090645987495?s=46
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no way they are this stupid
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2025, 07:23:31 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 20, 2025, 09:38:05 AM
Post by: Cire on February 20, 2025, 12:10:45 PM
Dr. Grok is going to give us our death panels!
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Post by: kstate4life on February 20, 2025, 02:14:55 PM
Post by: kstate4life on February 20, 2025, 02:18:49 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 20, 2025, 02:22:27 PM
Post by: Brock Landers on February 20, 2025, 02:32:58 PM
Post by: Cire on February 20, 2025, 02:40:56 PM
There’s going to be lots various Christians that aren’t going to have a very good time if Mike Flynn has any influence.
Might have to start a “leopards eating faces” thread for that
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Post by: cfbandyman on February 20, 2025, 02:41:06 PM
Hey at least he didn't call him "Pedo guy". Yet.
That's just what they call people in South Africa, so yeah it's coming
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on February 20, 2025, 02:41:33 PM
Elon calling an astronaut Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) sounds about right. Some people actually believe that piece of crap is intelligent.Now space is filled with radical left woke enemies of the MAGA Volk who must be purged.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 20, 2025, 03:33:12 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 20, 2025, 03:40:29 PM
community notes are now woke and being "gamed" by governments.
Reality is woke, and honestly is when you think about it
Post by: MakeItRain on February 20, 2025, 03:48:53 PM
https://x.com/hutchinson/status/1892617276546814418
Then right after
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1892621691060093254
I can't believe there's anyone sane who thinks this guy is the solution to anything that would yield a positive result
Post by: bucket on February 20, 2025, 03:57:33 PM
https://x.com/hutchinson/status/1892617276546814418
Then right after
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1892621691060093254
I can't believe there's anyone sane who thinks this guy is the solution to anything that would yield a positive result
SpaceX is contracted to deorbit the ISS, too. Totally on the up and up, I'm sure.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 20, 2025, 04:14:37 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2025, 04:58:09 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 20, 2025, 05:24:16 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 20, 2025, 05:40:49 PM
Post by: mocat on February 20, 2025, 05:41:42 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 20, 2025, 06:24:59 PM
https://bsky.app/profile/emptywheel.bsky.social/post/3linbinzkhc2j
Post by: Cire on February 20, 2025, 06:27:17 PM
Elon wants nasa’s budget
The recession that this will create will allow billionaires to buy property/capital
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Post by: bucket on February 20, 2025, 06:46:40 PM
This is all a money grab
Elon wants nasa’s budget
The recession that this will create will allow billionaires to buy property/capital
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I thought about asking in the investing thread a few days ago if anyone was building a cash position
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 20, 2025, 09:42:13 PM
LMAO at this collection of hyper-partisan clowns.
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Post by: bucket on February 20, 2025, 09:44:15 PM
Now #blueanongE is suddenly very concerned about billionaires buying up depressed assets.
LMAO at this collection of hyper-partisan clowns.
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Compared to when or what, Dax?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 20, 2025, 09:54:09 PM
I have brought up institutions like BlackRock buying up assets a number of times on this blog and #blueanongE thought it was a big joke.Now #blueanongE is suddenly very concerned about billionaires buying up depressed assets.
LMAO at this collection of hyper-partisan clowns.
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Compared to when or what, Dax?
The outlining of NASA’s inability to bring almost no projects in, in budget or even close to budget are copious, bucket.
Right now you and I are buying back reusable rocket motors, in the process of being made non-reusable, for way way more than we originally paid for them. As outlined by me on this blog. Just one example . . . of course.
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Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2025, 10:30:34 PM
https://x.com/fritschner/status/1892771586136010914?s=46
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Post by: Stevesie60 on February 20, 2025, 10:36:07 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 20, 2025, 10:38:46 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2025, 10:53:53 PM
What a strange video
he summarizes why MAGA won. the country has many more of him than they have of me. sucks, but we are where we are and I'll do ok either way.
Post by: Cire on February 21, 2025, 05:44:22 AM
Imagine waking up to realize you’re in the same part of the Venn diagram as this
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Post by: Institutional Control on February 23, 2025, 09:16:30 AM
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Post by: Pete on February 23, 2025, 09:41:14 AM
What a strange video
he summarizes why MAGA won. the country has many more of him than they have of me. sucks, but we are where we are and I'll do ok either way.
I agree with the entirety of your post.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 23, 2025, 05:33:40 PM
https://twitter.com/james_jinnette1/status/1892990992543797564?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: steve dave on February 23, 2025, 08:49:03 PM
https://x.com/thomaschattwill/status/1893820805793927350
Post by: LickNeckey on February 23, 2025, 09:10:05 PM
When those internal State Department memos say they can’t be sure who is ultimately getting the money . . .
https://twitter.com/james_jinnette1/status/1892990992543797564?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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What is a terrorist linked organization?
Post by: Pete on February 24, 2025, 06:57:48 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 24, 2025, 08:17:34 AM
I’m still waiting for Doge to dive into the defense contractors. If they do, and the secure the targeted $1T savings, then all their blundering will be worth it in my opinion. Meaningful disruption of the status quo in the defense industry has to be the goal or they are just petty vengeful goons deployed by an unserious clown of a president.
Why do you think they didn't start with defense contractors?
Post by: cfbandyman on February 24, 2025, 09:14:51 AM
I am factually smarter than Elon Musk, which should not be a surprise to anyone
https://x.com/thomaschattwill/status/1893820805793927350
lol its taken down
Post by: Pete on February 24, 2025, 10:30:48 AM
I’m still waiting for Doge to dive into the defense contractors. If they do, and the secure the targeted $1T savings, then all their blundering will be worth it in my opinion. Meaningful disruption of the status quo in the defense industry has to be the goal or they are just petty vengeful goons deployed by an unserious clown of a president.
Why do you think they didn't start with defense contractors?
I think since 2023 Trump’s opposition would have suspected that Trump’s first priority would be items in the Project 2025 agenda, and that appears to be true (cultural based culling of the alleged woke in federal leadership positions and staff). The second level priority seems to be cost savings at large. As for why their second level priority hasn’t dug into Defense, I’d argue it’s because Defense really runs this country and they don’t have the authority.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 24, 2025, 10:42:37 AM
I’m still waiting for Doge to dive into the defense contractors. If they do, and the secure the targeted $1T savings, then all their blundering will be worth it in my opinion. Meaningful disruption of the status quo in the defense industry has to be the goal or they are just petty vengeful goons deployed by an unserious clown of a president.
Why do you think they didn't start with defense contractors?
I think since 2023 Trump’s opposition would have suspected that Trump’s first priority would be items in the Project 2025 agenda, and that appears to be true (cultural based culling of the alleged woke in federal leadership positions and staff). The second level priority seems to be cost savings at large. As for why their second level priority hasn’t dug into Defense, I’d argue it’s because Defense really runs this country and they don’t have the authority.
Right, which is why I think your last sentence in your original post ends up feeling/ringing true (so far). They are going for pennies when there are hundreds of billions to look after.
I also think, too add onto your own, seriously slashing the defense budget would (probably) look weak coming from them. It would send a weird signal to be so "pro military" (not that they (trump/elon) are, just who supports them are) and then ax like 100 bill off it (if they every do something like that). It'd be the actual most meaning spending cuts, but I don't know how easy of a sell it is to their voters to be like HEY WE JUST SAVED YOU 100 BILLION (and I'm just making up a number for affect) when it's easy to ax soft power stuff like they have been doing. I think it would come off as weird to shout that out loud if they do. If they actually want to do that they definitely are working on the messaging to try do that.
Post by: Pete on February 24, 2025, 11:11:30 AM
Post by: Pete on February 24, 2025, 11:18:33 AM
At this point, any silver lining we have is wonderful and incredibly significant…the defense industry hasn’t been disrupted since Eisenhower warned us of the power of the military industrial complex.
We can pay for any social program you can name if we save materially on defense.
Post by: CNS on February 24, 2025, 01:25:52 PM
I’m still waiting for Doge to dive into the defense contractors. If they do, and the secure the targeted $1T savings, then all their blundering will be worth it in my opinion. Meaningful disruption of the status quo in the defense industry has to be the goal or they are just petty vengeful goons deployed by an unserious clown of a president.
Why do you think they didn't start with defense contractors?
Mostly impossible to score woke wins for morons with the Defense guys.
Post by: wetwillie on February 24, 2025, 02:41:36 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on February 24, 2025, 03:42:00 PM
The mumped up paradox is that our best hope for slashing defense spending while still maintaining defense quality is the tech disrupters like SpaceX and Starlink, Anduril, Plantir and others and the bitch is that their leaders are arguably no better morally or ethically than the legacy group. The “good” thing about the new tech guys is that they are used to doing things at a much lower cost than the legacy group. They would eventually need just as much or more risk of constant disruption in order to keep costs lower.
At this point, any silver lining we have is wonderful and incredibly significant…the defense industry hasn’t been disrupted since Eisenhower warned us of the power of the military industrial complex.
We can pay for any social program you can name if we save materially on defense.
I think this has been known and pushed for quite some time. Even if we spent $600 bill on the military we'd still be running circles around our adversaries, and could actually afford crap. Them not going for that or even really making anything meaningful without addressing the 900 billion dollar gorilla in the room.
Post by: Cire on February 24, 2025, 05:01:19 PM
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Post by: Cire on February 25, 2025, 05:40:05 AM
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Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2025, 07:40:50 AM
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Post by: CNS on February 25, 2025, 07:48:21 AM
Post by: mocat on February 25, 2025, 09:03:41 AM
Republicans won't kill off their main block of voters.
i might agree with you if i wasn't alive for covid.
but also their voter block is a renewable resource
Post by: cfbandyman on February 25, 2025, 09:27:44 AM
Republicans won't kill off their main block of voters.
i might agree with you if i wasn't alive for covid.
but also their voter block is a renewable resource
IDK about renewable, but they will always vote against themselves so I agree with that
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 25, 2025, 10:28:35 AM
Republicans won't kill off their main block of voters.
elon nogaf.
Post by: Cire on February 25, 2025, 11:06:23 AM
rural America is about to learn about bootstraps in a BIG way
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Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on February 25, 2025, 11:15:16 AM
Fortunately, for us Rural Americans we have approx one Senator for every 100 of us standing as a bulwark against cuts to the entitlement spending and various subsidies that sustain our communities.rural America is about to learn about bootstraps in a BIG way
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Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on February 25, 2025, 01:04:37 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gkk34UIXIAAX_WV?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Post by: chum1 on February 25, 2025, 03:02:40 PM
Quote
More than 20 civil service employees resigned Tuesday from billionaire Trump adviser Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), saying they were refusing to use their technical expertise to "dismantle critical public services."
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7467848
Post by: Institutional Control on February 25, 2025, 04:26:14 PM
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 25, 2025, 04:27:33 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 25, 2025, 05:02:04 PM
"Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency"? Doesn't the author know that the head of DOGE is "we don't know"?
Nope, they found her but she is on vacation in Mexico and not taking any calls.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 25, 2025, 07:09:41 PM
"Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency"? Doesn't the author know that the head of DOGE is "we don't know"?
Nope, they found her but she is on vacation in Mexico and not taking any calls.
His position as the head of DOGE is one to be taken seriously, not literally
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2025, 06:19:16 AM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1894455348595233105
Post by: cfbandyman on February 26, 2025, 08:19:24 AM
Post by: LickNeckey on February 26, 2025, 08:25:13 AM
Post by: Cire on February 26, 2025, 08:49:56 AM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 26, 2025, 11:13:35 AM
Post by: mocat on February 26, 2025, 02:38:14 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 26, 2025, 03:21:26 PM
Post by: 'taterblast on February 26, 2025, 03:30:28 PM
#blueanongE standing tall with waste - fraud - abuse while talking out of the other side of the keyboard about how they hope they stop the waste - fraud - abuse is just a perpetual gift of greatness and :lol: :lol:
dax make fun of stupid things with us! it's fun!
Post by: star seed 7 on February 26, 2025, 03:46:58 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 26, 2025, 04:21:06 PM
I think this is just a deflection away from how embarrassing #blueanon political apparatchiks have been about this topic, like little children who got caught.
So the lashing out is just a coping mechanism under the guise of "making fun".
Post by: cfbandyman on February 26, 2025, 04:30:48 PM
Generally speaking is most of Elon’s wealth tied up in Tesla valuation? Like is he cash poor
"Yes" to both, he's even said this himself. The biggest "Yes" though is I can't remember how much of his valuation is tesla, quick look up put its at 75%, that was 2022 though.
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 26, 2025, 04:45:41 PM
#blueanongE standing tall with waste - fraud - abuse while talking out of the other side of the keyboard about how they hope they stop the waste - fraud - abuse is just a perpetual gift of greatness and :lol: :lol:
dax make fun of stupid things with us! it's fun!
dax just saw that his taxes are going up so he's too busy trying to figure out how to defend Trump to have fun.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 26, 2025, 04:59:43 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 26, 2025, 05:46:18 PM
Generally speaking is most of Elon’s wealth tied up in Tesla valuation? Like is he cash poor
He's got about 44B into the bird app
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on February 26, 2025, 08:02:59 PM
That’s what he paid for it. It is currently valued at $9billion. Also, he is a business and financial genius who is going to fix out $30 trillion deficit.Generally speaking is most of Elon’s wealth tied up in Tesla valuation? Like is he cash poor
He's got about 44B into the bird app
Post by: cfbandyman on February 26, 2025, 08:40:15 PM
That’s what he paid for it. It is currently valued at $9billion. Also, he is a business and financial genius who is going to fix out $30 trillion deficit.Generally speaking is most of Elon’s wealth tied up in Tesla valuation? Like is he cash poor
He's got about 44B into the bird app
I can't wait to see how much lower the Tesla stock goes. Hope it craters hard
Post by: chum1 on February 27, 2025, 03:42:14 AM
That’s what he paid for it. It is currently valued at $9billion. Also, he is a business and financial genius who is going to fix out $30 trillion deficit.Generally speaking is most of Elon’s wealth tied up in Tesla valuation? Like is he cash poor
He's got about 44B into the bird app
I can't wait to see how much lower the Tesla stock goes. Hope it craters hard
Kinda difficult to judge when that happens. It's still up 100% since last April.
Post by: cfbandyman on February 27, 2025, 08:44:02 AM
That’s what he paid for it. It is currently valued at $9billion. Also, he is a business and financial genius who is going to fix out $30 trillion deficit.Generally speaking is most of Elon’s wealth tied up in Tesla valuation? Like is he cash poor
He's got about 44B into the bird app
I can't wait to see how much lower the Tesla stock goes. Hope it craters hard
Kinda difficult to judge when that happens. It's still up 100% since last April.
Sure, and it may well not but it's about face it quite something, and now that sales are truly reflecting that, and not really seasonally they are going to have difficult questions to answer
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on February 27, 2025, 12:02:19 PM
https://x.com/bdquinn/status/1895156362956378390
Post by: Institutional Control on February 27, 2025, 12:50:55 PM
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on February 27, 2025, 03:48:07 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gk0IYL8XYAAGPrA?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 27, 2025, 03:56:26 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 27, 2025, 04:49:49 PM
This was on Breaking Points today but I've had this thought for a while; Musk has said repeatedly that he is convinced we live in a simulation. I think this explains his actions quite well. He thinks he is in a game and he's trying to win, and everyone else in the world is an NPC. Hence why he's okay with shutting down cancer research, AIDS treatment in Africa, shutting down hospitals, etc just so he can pay himself hundreds of millions of dollars.Egomaniac and psychopath also fit this and are much simpler explanations
Post by: LickNeckey on February 28, 2025, 07:14:15 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 28, 2025, 10:46:42 PM
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Post by: star seed 7 on March 01, 2025, 12:19:46 AM
https://x.com/josephpolitano/status/1895693140725829734?s=46
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Reminds me of this video
https://youtu.be/3u8_fp1TtJE?si=doHg-Sq6GSkoOnf-
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 01, 2025, 11:41:07 AM
Post by: bucket on March 04, 2025, 04:55:59 PM
Post by: LickNeckey on March 04, 2025, 07:03:02 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 04, 2025, 07:07:35 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 04, 2025, 07:38:51 PM
Post by: LickNeckey on March 04, 2025, 09:17:21 PM
Post by: Brock Landers on March 05, 2025, 06:56:07 PM
https://x.com/hungrybowtie/status/1897061331574120889
Bro really went to the barber and asked for the Simple Jack.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 05, 2025, 07:16:39 PM
https://twitter.com/lizmacdonaldfox/status/1897358225650991288?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 06, 2025, 01:29:46 PM
Rep. Maxine Waters: "Elon Musk with his high-tech ass may have hacked our last election"
Post by: wetwillie on March 06, 2025, 05:35:05 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2025, 06:38:01 PM
One thing we can all agree on is ridding our govt of old peopleYES! 60+ disqualifies you!
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Post by: DaBigTrain on March 06, 2025, 06:55:11 PM
Post by: CNS on March 06, 2025, 07:23:59 PM
One thing we can all agree on is ridding our govt of old people
Covid really let me down.
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2025, 09:28:37 PM
Damn SD will never be able to serve then :frown:
I HAVE 16 YEARS LEFT IN THE TANK BROTHER
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2025, 09:30:05 PM
One thing we can all agree on is ridding our govt of old people
Covid really let me down.
it had trump but for the emergency helicopter live saving protocols. almost had'em.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 06, 2025, 10:07:40 PM
Talk about age and then claim common ground.
These are (still) the life and times of #blueanongE
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Post by: star seed 7 on March 06, 2025, 10:13:35 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2025, 10:16:03 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 06, 2025, 10:21:34 PM
So maybe we should implement giant derp? Yes or No? Litmus tests
Or . . . Is your guy a complete mental tap out who hides in his basement?
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Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2025, 10:24:45 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 06, 2025, 10:25:32 PM
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Post by: wetwillie on March 06, 2025, 10:34:08 PM
dax, how old do you think you should max out at to be in public office? like fuckin' 60 nor something?
Mod G is going to be 61 in Jan 2029
Post by: CNS on March 09, 2025, 08:05:38 AM
I am 100% an Elon apologist. He’s definitely my Ben Sasse, if you will.
I think I have about a bagillion bigger concerns about MAGA than Elon’s science experiments (most of which are indeed badass and highly probable to materially benefit humanity. Have some concerns about the “not a flame thrower” tho).
I think he posses a bigger risk to individual nations than any other non-president level human, and will be come more so over time, all because of SpaceX and Starlink. We trust him with a lot of high security stuff and he has huge interest in China, who happens to be the main nation state competitor on space stuff right now. If you tell me that Elon wouldn't let extreme pressure from China on Tesla related business effect what he does or doesn't do in the gray area of SpaceX, I would suggest you haven't thought it all the way through.
Starlink is growing and will eventually connect a crap ton of people, governments, and militaries to themselves and others. One guy should not have the ability to so sharply effect communications. I think this alone is a national security threat and will only become more of one. Same with SpaceX. I think it is the pinnacle of short sighted to have SpaceX doing anything in NASA's place. We should be better funding NASA instead.
I understand the advancement SpaceX is providing. It think it's rough ridin' stupid we are allowing that outside of America's ultimate control.
https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/P9WJjoOHL6 (https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/P9WJjoOHL6)
Post by: Cire on March 09, 2025, 09:56:04 AM
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Post by: Cire on March 09, 2025, 10:01:24 AM
DAX!
https://www.ft.com/content/66857e1e-a217-4ddd-8332-d9f0f75aa459
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 09, 2025, 11:27:14 AM
The bad part for Elon is that he actually has billions in tangible assets that employee thousands upon thousands of Americans.
Those assets are also targets for perpetual Big Mad #blueanon and apparently ActBlue terrorists are funding some of the violent acts against those assets. The audience will be reminded that ActBlue is a huge pro #blueanon money laundering operation, replete with millions coming in from untraceable sources and foreign entities.
Musk stands on contrast to the Soros who don't really employ anybody outside of the anti-American NGO's and think tanks they stealthly funnel money into under the cover of various sub entities. #blueanon controllers and political heroes are absolutely fantastic at setting up money laundering non-profits and NGO's. Props to you guys. :thumbsup:
Post by: catastrophe on March 09, 2025, 11:34:25 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250309/164949ac8a9e17eb878ff7a9ba2a83bd.jpg)It’s so predictable too.
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 09, 2025, 12:16:38 PM
So it's just :lol: :lol: to see #blueanon get all Big Mad about this kind of stuff.
#blueanon/#blueanongE: When they tell you they're for eliminating waste-fraud-abuse . . . they're lying
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 09, 2025, 12:46:36 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 11, 2025, 07:28:59 AM
https://bsky.app/profile/cnbc.com/post/3lk3zlvbegc2v
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Post by: star seed 7 on March 11, 2025, 07:49:29 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 11, 2025, 08:21:14 AM
Reminds me of when advertisers were leaving Twitter and Elon said that's illegal and sued to make them advertise on twitter
Right, you know, free market small government type stuff.
Post by: cfbandyman on March 11, 2025, 08:28:22 AM
Reminds me of when advertisers were leaving Twitter and Elon said that's illegal and sued to make them advertise on twitter
Yup, that is the most unhinged take, advertisers, or anyone, should be able to spend money on what they want. Suing cause you fleeing a sinking ship is desperation at it's finest.
Also, while I doubt we'll see another $40 stock drop today (if ever again), any more bleeding on tesla stock is welcome AF news. Keep falling like a rock
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 11, 2025, 09:54:45 AM
We can officially put government employees on the same entitlement level as tenured professors
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 11, 2025, 09:57:08 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/randi-weingarten-claims-teacher-union-members-indifferent-about-department-education-being-abolished
“I mean, my members don’t really care about whether they have a bureaucracy of the Department of Education or not. In fact, Al Shanker and the [American Federation of Teachers] in the 1970s were opposed to its creation.”
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 11, 2025, 01:39:39 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 11, 2025, 01:43:44 PM
#blueanon - fighting hard against EV (also fighting like wild dogs against peace)
We can officially put government employees on the same entitlement level as tenured professors
Where was blueanon also fighting hard against rivian or the 100% electric offerings of long established car companies?
Seems like a boycott of a specific company, for a specific reason. (I realize you will choose not to understand this)
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 11, 2025, 02:47:54 PM
Post by: LickNeckey on March 11, 2025, 02:52:49 PM
can't wait for that R3
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 11, 2025, 02:56:31 PM
Post by: michigancat on March 11, 2025, 02:57:43 PM
I wonder where he is going to charge his new Tesla that he is never really going to buy now that he removed all of the chargers from federal buildings and is against any new charging networks?
has he come out against the existing TESLA charging networks?
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 11, 2025, 04:33:53 PM
I wonder where he is going to charge his new Tesla that he is never really going to buy now that he removed all of the chargers from federal buildings and is against any new charging networks?
has he come out against the existing TESLA charging networks?
Good point. I'm sure he will just hit the supercharger next to the holiday inn near Bethesda.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 11, 2025, 04:44:01 PM
The audience is once again reminded that #blueanongE is straight up lying if they tell you they're concerned with waste-fraud-abuse.
They're also lying if they try and say that this isn't a purposeful attempt by Big Mad #blueanon to fund disruption of Musk's businesses.
This is how people who got caught in a huge grift react.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 11, 2025, 04:44:02 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250311/37e03386ebecb2d4db83ee6bf545e5d1.jpg)
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Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 11, 2025, 05:56:04 PM
man
can't wait for that R3
Rivian is the king of the very important EV marketplace
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 11, 2025, 07:04:31 PM
I wonder why
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Post by: bucket on March 11, 2025, 07:43:43 PM
Office wide document shredding party at US AID
I wonder why
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That's very naive of you
Post by: Cire on March 11, 2025, 08:18:45 PM
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Post by: steve dave on March 11, 2025, 08:26:20 PM
Post by: Cire on March 11, 2025, 10:08:51 PM
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Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 11, 2025, 10:38:19 PM
Office wide document shredding party at US AID
I wonder why
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link?
Post by: LickNeckey on March 11, 2025, 10:49:59 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 11, 2025, 11:01:27 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on March 11, 2025, 11:05:43 PM
Post by: Trim on March 12, 2025, 12:34:12 AM
Office wide document shredding party at US AID
I wonder why
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:lol:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 08:48:25 AM
#trimdorkin
The DeflectoBots of #blueanongE
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 08:53:57 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 08:58:55 AM
There is no question that there is a enormous amount of waste, fraud and abuse in this government . . . Bernie Sanders
About a third of all the spending that's done in medicare/medicaid doesn't go to really good healthcare, it goes to other things . . . and the real nub of this is, how do we ring that waste out . . . Chuck Schumer
What changed?
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2025, 09:17:01 AM
https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/usaid-employees-told-to-burn-shred-and-destroy-classified-documents-234124869671
#trimdorkin
The DeflectoBots of #blueanongE
Did you ever figure out why?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 09:29:18 AM
Are the Iranian students about to storm the building?
Post by: cfbandyman on March 12, 2025, 09:29:56 AM
man
can't wait for that R3
It's a hot POA
Post by: cfbandyman on March 12, 2025, 09:30:36 AM
#blueanon - fighting hard against EV (also fighting like wild dogs against peace)
We can officially put government employees on the same entitlement level as tenured professors
Where was blueanon also fighting hard against rivian or the 100% electric offerings of long established car companies?
Seems like a boycott of a specific company, for a specific reason. (I realize you will choose not to understand this)
Willfully aloof
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 09:32:36 AM
(also continually failing to acknowledge the $28 Trillion dollars in Federal spending that was pumped into the economy over the last 4 years)
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2025, 10:00:11 AM
No.
Let us know when you do.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 10:12:57 AM
This is the kind of thing that guilty people do . . .
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2025, 10:17:14 AM
When your agency has been a #blueanon politically connected grifters paradise and/or a cut out entity for the CIA . . . you have shredding parties, even when people from your own government are going to get the documents.
This is the kind of thing that guilty people do . . .
Who do you think ordered this obviously nefarious shredding?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 10:21:19 AM
I guess the #blueanon grift state should be thankful that Don Trump and Marco are looking out for them.
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2025, 10:26:01 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 10:33:43 AM
The trump admin is shredding documents to protect #blueanon?
I know you're being purposely obtuse and willfully aloof . . . as always.
But the #blueanon grifter state that has existed inside USAid is well documented at this point.
That's why you had #blueanon political and thought leaders out in front of US Aid acting like infants who just got told they couldn't have another cookie a few weeks ago.
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2025, 10:34:42 AM
The trump admin is shredding documents to protect #blueanon?
I know you're being purposely obtuse and willfully aloof . . . as always.
But the #blueanon grifter state that has existed inside USAid is well documented at this point.
That's why you aid #blueanon political and thought leaders out in front of US Aid acting like infants who just got told they couldn't have another cookie a few weeks ago.
The trump admin is shredding documents to protect #blueanon?
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 12, 2025, 10:34:43 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250312/1540262936d771f0de865ade10e95f6e.jpg)
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 10:35:55 AM
The trump admin is shredding documents to protect #blueanon?
I know you're being purposely obtuse and willfully aloof . . . as always.
But the #blueanon grifter state that has existed inside USAid is well documented at this point.
That's why you aid #blueanon political and thought leaders out in front of US Aid acting like infants who just got told they couldn't have another cookie a few weeks ago.The trump admin is shredding documents to protect #blueanon?
I've answered the question.
If you want to have one of your Big Mad rage out days . . . go ahead.
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2025, 10:40:33 AM
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on March 12, 2025, 10:42:49 AM
https://x.com/Mollyploofkins/status/1899774779449553309
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 12, 2025, 10:51:13 AM
https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/usaid-employees-told-to-burn-shred-and-destroy-classified-documents-234124869671
#trimdorkin
The DeflectoBots of #blueanongE
That’s not a link to what you posted at all. Did you read that even the beginning?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 10:51:29 AM
I'm trying to give you an opportunity to not look like an idiot but you're refusing. You can lead a boomer to water but...
Watching your inability to connect the dots to anything and then fall back on the ol "I'm just trying to give you an opportunity" shtick is yet another perpetual gift horse of :lol: :lol:
Why don't you as a hardcore #blueanon simply thank Don Trump and Marco Rubio for giving your movement a modicum of undeserved air cover and leave it at that.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 10:52:30 AM
https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/usaid-employees-told-to-burn-shred-and-destroy-classified-documents-234124869671
#trimdorkin
The DeflectoBots of #blueanongE
That’s not a link to what you posted at all. Did you read that even the beginning?
The Headline:
USAID employees told to burn, shred and destroy classified documents
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2025, 11:05:01 AM
I'm trying to give you an opportunity to not look like an idiot but you're refusing. You can lead a boomer to water but...
Watching your inability to connect the dots to anything and then fall back on the ol "I'm just trying to give you an opportunity" shtick is yet another perpetual gift horse of :lol: :lol:
Why don't you as a hardcore #blueanon simply thank Don Trump and Marco Rubio for giving your movement a modicum of undeserved air cover and leave it at that.
Fine, look like a giant idiot, see if I care. Lol
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 11:26:07 AM
I'm trying to give you an opportunity to not look like an idiot but you're refusing. You can lead a boomer to water but...
Watching your inability to connect the dots to anything and then fall back on the ol "I'm just trying to give you an opportunity" shtick is yet another perpetual gift horse of :lol: :lol:
Why don't you as a hardcore #blueanon simply thank Don Trump and Marco Rubio for giving your movement a modicum of undeserved air cover and leave it at that.
Fine, look like a giant idiot, see if I care. Lol
Looks like it's Big Mad Express Wednesday (or maybe Thursday in his case) for StalkerBot.7
Channeling my inner StalkerBot.7: I declare StalkerBot.7 a giant idiot
Post by: mocat on March 12, 2025, 11:39:49 AM
He's addicted to appearing like an idiot on this here public forumI'm trying to give you an opportunity to not look like an idiot but you're refusing. You can lead a boomer to water but...
Watching your inability to connect the dots to anything and then fall back on the ol "I'm just trying to give you an opportunity" shtick is yet another perpetual gift horse of
Why don't you as a hardcore #blueanon simply thank Don Trump and Marco Rubio for giving your movement a modicum of undeserved air cover and leave it at that.
Fine, look like a giant idiot, see if I care. Lol
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 11:44:55 AM
Dax: I don't care who ordered it
#blueanongE: Ya but, you're an idiot
Dax: We've discussed #blueanon's USAID grift at length, just thank Don and Marco for providing some air cover and burning the evidence
#blueanongE: Ya but, you're an idiot
It's like this all day - every day. :lol:
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 12, 2025, 11:56:23 AM
Just nabbed me a 12 point buck, best hurry up and get those antlers into the woodchipper
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 12, 2025, 12:06:01 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 12:13:25 PM
It's astounding . . . but then again, nothing with #blueanon makes any sense these days when placed against the backdrop of its origins
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 12, 2025, 12:17:11 PM
Even more fascinating is how Big Mad #blueanon/#blueanongE even when Don Trump is doing them a big favor
It's astounding . . . but then again, nothing with #blueanon makes any sense these days when placed against the backdrop of its origins
It’s awesome in that way too! The first is you screaming and crying about it and then realizing trump folks are shredding to cover and changing because you have no intellect. Huge wins today
Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2025, 12:26:27 PM
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 12:29:10 PM
dax since i have the mind of a child, please help me understand why the trump administration would be ordering USAID employees to shred documents? Elon and co. love posting proof of all the fraud and waste they find, i'm not sure why they would want to destroy that massive trophy.
Just nabbed me a 12 point buck, best hurry up and get those antlers into the woodchipper
I think Elon has already uncovered most of it . . . and that's why you've got all the lashing out from #blueanon.
Haven't I already discussed this like a dozen times?
There's a lot of contradictory information out there on this, here's what NYT's a #blueanon "go to" had to say:
It is unclear if Ms. Carr or any other official at U.S.A.I.D. got permission from the National Archives and Records Administration to destroy the documents. The Federal Records Act of 1950 requires U.S. government officials to ask the records administration for approval before destroying documents.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 12:30:19 PM
Even more fascinating is how Big Mad #blueanon/#blueanongE even when Don Trump is doing them a big favor
It's astounding . . . but then again, nothing with #blueanon makes any sense these days when placed against the backdrop of its origins
It’s awesome in that way too! The first is you screaming and crying about it and then realizing trump folks are shredding to cover and changing because you have no intellect. Huge wins today
The above from a guy who can't even read or comprehend a headline.
That also assumes that I don't understand the uniparty element that exists in our bureaucracy
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 12, 2025, 12:32:22 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250312/0cfa917b70db6bbba080662ea6367853.jpg)
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We are living in wild times friends. Holy moly.
Post by: catastrophe on March 12, 2025, 12:32:45 PM
Or is this just one of those “nothing is confirmed” situations?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 12:50:42 PM
Dax, #blueanon keeps trying to muck up your message on here, so can you please just clarify for me your leading theory of (1) who ordered the shredding and (2) why?
Or is this just one of those “nothing is confirmed” situations?
I covered that a few posts ago.
The Union, Rubio, the archives . . . ??
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on March 12, 2025, 12:51:28 PM
Not even the slightest attempt to hide the grifting and cronyism. They consider grifting and cronyism to be a positive good. Back to the Gilded Age!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250312/0cfa917b70db6bbba080662ea6367853.jpg)
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We are living in wild times friends. Holy moly.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 12:54:25 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250312/0cfa917b70db6bbba080662ea6367853.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We are living in wild times friends. Holy moly.
I don't find this on X, please provide a link
Hey, remember when the people who controlled Pedo Pete were big mad at Musk. So they provided all kinds of incentives for people to buy EV's . . . but they excluded Tesla from those incentives.
The leading producer of EV only vehicles :lol:
I mean, talking about blatant bald face cronyism to unions . . . goodness
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 12, 2025, 12:57:51 PM
Not even the slightest attempt to hide the grifting and cronyism. They consider grifting and cronyism to be a positive good. Back to the Gilded Age!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250312/0cfa917b70db6bbba080662ea6367853.jpg)
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We are living in wild times friends. Holy moly.
I like to think about how this would have gone if say before Leon figured out it was way more profitable to grift the dummies and Obama sent this exact thing out when he was president. The earth's temp would have gone up 3 degrees instantly from repub anger.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 01:03:41 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 01:06:36 PM
cronyism
A tweet (I'm letting it slide unless #blueanongE cannot provide a direct link) . . . and a president extolling the leading EV manufacturer that employs 1000's of American
Not cronyism . . .
An administration setting aside billions in incentives for EV's made by unions, and excluding the largest EV only manufacturer in the world
Post by: cfbandyman on March 12, 2025, 01:17:25 PM
Not even the slightest attempt to hide the grifting and cronyism. They consider grifting and cronyism to be a positive good. Back to the Gilded Age!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250312/0cfa917b70db6bbba080662ea6367853.jpg)
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We are living in wild times friends. Holy moly.
I like to think about how this would have gone if say before Leon figured out it was way more profitable to grift the dummies and Obama sent this exact thing out when he was president. The earth's temp would have gone up 3 degrees instantly from repub anger.
"hey can you help me my stock is flagging"
"sure I got you"
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 01:21:45 PM
Not cronyism . . .
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2021/08/05/biden-wants-extra-incentives-for-union-built-electric-cars-which-excludes-teslas/
https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/11/26/tesla-excluded-from-ev-buyer-credits-in-california-proposal/
“This president is very, very favorable toward organized labor,
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/29/energy-secretary-defends-tesla-ev-tax-credit-exclusion.html
Post by: catastrophe on March 12, 2025, 03:06:56 PM
Dax, #blueanon keeps trying to muck up your message on here, so can you please just clarify for me your leading theory of (1) who ordered the shredding and (2) why?
Or is this just one of those “nothing is confirmed” situations?
I covered that a few posts ago.
The Union, Rubio, the archives . . . ??
Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clarifying.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 03:08:52 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 03:11:09 PM
Quote
Re: Let's talk about Elon Musk
« Reply #1304 on: Today at 01:03:41 PM »
Waiting on that direct link to the Tweet . . . :impatient:
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 12, 2025, 03:53:42 PM
https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/usaid-employees-told-to-burn-shred-and-destroy-classified-documents-234124869671
#trimdorkin
The DeflectoBots of #blueanongE
The answer as to why seems to be right there in the headline.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 05:28:58 PM
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1899620879534858527?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g
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Post by: Trim on March 12, 2025, 06:57:38 PM
Office wide document shredding party at US AID
I wonder why
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:lol:
https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/usaid-employees-told-to-burn-shred-and-destroy-classified-documents-234124869671
#trimdorkin
The DeflectoBots of #blueanongE
:lol:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 09:57:22 PM
Still waiting . . .#stillwaitingQuoteRe: Let's talk about Elon Musk
« Reply #1304 on: Today at 01:03:41 PM »
Waiting on that direct link to the Tweet . . . :impatient:
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 09:57:49 PM
#trimdorkinOffice wide document shredding party at US AID
I wonder why
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:lol:https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/usaid-employees-told-to-burn-shred-and-destroy-classified-documents-234124869671
#trimdorkin
The DeflectoBots of #blueanongE
:lol:
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2025, 10:28:38 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250313/d5d51fe045fd33c5fba7b0a944f08725.jpg)
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Post by: michigancat on March 13, 2025, 05:10:43 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 13, 2025, 07:48:50 AM
It’s a joke guysNot even the slightest attempt to hide the grifting and cronyism. They consider grifting and cronyism to be a positive good. Back to the Gilded Age!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250312/0cfa917b70db6bbba080662ea6367853.jpg)
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We are living in wild times friends. Holy moly.
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 13, 2025, 08:56:53 AM
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 13, 2025, 09:00:50 AM
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1899916758510649423Don Trump inherited FFY ‘25 approximately 110 days in
By that point the Federal Government was at an all time record pace of deficit spending.
In Feb - the Federal Government spent twice as much money than it had on hand to spend.
You guys have completely lost your crap at even the slightest hint of reductions in spending and now you’re fighting a spending bill that changes nothing.
Complete obstructionist whackjobs all cus you’re Big Mad that Kamala got her ass kicked.
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Post by: Cire on March 13, 2025, 11:00:11 AM