Let's talk about Elon Musk

[star seed 7]

*disclaimer* that was just a shoehorned footloose joke

[Rage Against the McKee]

I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  I'm the opposite.  I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture.  Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.

The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.

[nicname]

I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  I'm the opposite.  I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture.  Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.

The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.

If there wasnt a Weimar Republic there likely never would have been nazis or nazi equivalents. This is correct, yes?

[DQ12]

I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  I'm the opposite.  I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture.  Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.

The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.

Alright.  I'm ready to agree to disagree here.  But just so I'm sure I understand you, it's your view that there is no moral/ethical difference between the culture of 1930s Germany (antebellum south/child-sacrificing aztecs/etc.) and modern day Sweden?  You can't say one culture is any more ethical than the other?

[BIG APPLE CAT]

Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture. 

What has only happened once? Autocracy? Imperialism? Ethnic cleansing? To my knowledge, there are many examples of all the bad stuff that happened in Nazi Germany.

I'm specifically talking about "putting nazis in charge." 

Regardless, has every culture equally promoted/endorsed the "bad stuff" you're talking about?  If not, why not?

I mean, could we go ahead and put apartheid South Africa in there or does it have to be specifically antisemitism? (Gypsies, gays, PoC as well!)

[DQ12]

Well, to my knowledge, that's only ever happened in one culture. 

What has only happened once? Autocracy? Imperialism? Ethnic cleansing? To my knowledge, there are many examples of all the bad stuff that happened in Nazi Germany.

I'm specifically talking about "putting nazis in charge." 

Regardless, has every culture equally promoted/endorsed the "bad stuff" you're talking about?  If not, why not?

I mean, could we go ahead and put apartheid South Africa in there or does it have to be specifically antisemitism? (Gypsies, gays, PoC as well!)

Yes!  Absolutely!  Bad culture, imo! 

[star seed 7]

What is the most ethical culture?

[DQ12]

What is the most ethical culture?

Not sure.  But the point is that I can tell you which cultures which I think are pretty clearly not the most ethical.

[star seed 7]

What is the most ethical culture?

Not sure.  But the point is that I can tell you which cultures which I think are pretty clearly not the most ethical.

Well, at least based on the ethics of your own culture

[Rage Against the McKee]

I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  I'm the opposite.  I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture.  Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.

The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.

Alright.  I'm ready to agree to disagree here.  But just so I'm sure I understand you, it's your view that there is no moral/ethical difference between the culture of 1930s Germany (antebellum south/child-sacrificing aztecs/etc.) and modern day Sweden?  You can't say one culture is any more ethical than the other?

I just think an ideology is different than a culture. 1980s Germany was very different than 1940s Germany, but the people are the same, and it's ridiculous to me to claim they adopted a completely different culture.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I would agree that there are cultural differences between Munich and Berlin, though.

[mocat]

good discussion. i agree with ratm's last two posts

[DQ12]

I love knowing that there were DQ12s in the Weimar Republic who were like, "nothing bad is going to happen here," while Hitler was busy consolidating power.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  I'm the opposite.  I think that the Weimar Republic evolved into what it did is a damning indictment of the Weimar Republic's culture.  Had it not evolved into that, I wouldn't think so little of it.

The Nazis didn't really rule Germany all that long. The same people who embraced that ideology embraced freedom, tore down the wall, etc.

Alright.  I'm ready to agree to disagree here.  But just so I'm sure I understand you, it's your view that there is no moral/ethical difference between the culture of 1930s Germany (antebellum south/child-sacrificing aztecs/etc.) and modern day Sweden?  You can't say one culture is any more ethical than the other?

I just think an ideology is different than a culture. 1980s Germany was very different than 1940s Germany, but the people are the same, and it's ridiculous to me to claim they adopted a completely different culture.

Yeah, I agree ideologies are different than cultures.   But cultures where bad ideologies can grow, flourish, and be implemented strike me as "bad" (or at least ethically "worse") than other cultures where the ideology didn't get adopted.  I think the proof is kind of in the pudding here.

[mocat]

German culture is just really good at following orders. Nobody jaywalks, they don't even have turnstiles on the subway because it's so frowned upon to board without a ticket. Susceptible to the "just following orders" Nuremberg defense utilized by mid level nazi management

[nicname]

German culture is just really good at following orders. Nobody jaywalks, they don't even have turnstiles on the subway because it's so frowned upon to board without a ticket. Susceptible to the "just following orders" Nuremberg defense utilized by mid level nazi management

Also Japan.

[mocat]

that said, i imagine every culture is susceptible to fascism if the people who stand to benefit from it feel that it's justified.

remember this quote from the the united states attorney general?

“We need to take away children,” Mr. Sessions told the prosecutors, according to participants’ notes. One added in shorthand: “If care about kids, don’t bring them in. Won’t give amnesty to people with kids.”

[Pete]

that said, i imagine every culture is susceptible to fascism if the people who stand to benefit from it feel that it's justified.

remember this quote from the the united states attorney general?

“We need to take away children,” Mr. Sessions told the prosecutors, according to participants’ notes. One added in shorthand: “If care about kids, don’t bring them in. Won’t give amnesty to people with kids.”

Totally agree, and I just change fascism to authoritarianism. I personally hate fascism way more than I hate communism but honestly, I guess most consistently I would say that I hate authoritarianism.

[Rage Against the McKee]

https://x.com/calvinrobinson/status/1884457011481325731

What a piece of crap.

[Pete]

Pro life people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide.  If you believe that abortion is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stop abortion then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whatever

[Pete]

That is unless your reason for being anti-abortion has nothing to do with life or death and it’s about controlling other people

[steve dave]

That is unless your reason for being anti-abortion has nothing to do with life or death and it’s about controlling other people

we call it religion pete

[michigancat]

Pro life people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide.  If you believe that abortion is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stop abortion then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whatever

That makes this guy's Nazi salute kind of ironic!

[Pete]

Pro life people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide.  If you believe that abortion is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stop abortion then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whatever

That makes this guy's Nazi salute kind of ironic!

Oh, he’s totally about social control as means to preserving the species or whatever the eff. I just don’t think that he thinks he’s a Nazi and I don’t think he wants to be a Nazi. He wants to be something else that to many people would seem pretty rough ridin' undesirable.

[Pete]

That is unless your reason for being anti-abortion has nothing to do with life or death and it’s about controlling other people

we call it religion pete

[Rage Against the McKee]

Pro life people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide.  If you believe that abortion is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stop abortion then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whatever

That makes this guy's Nazi salute kind of ironic!

Oh, he’s totally about social control as means to preserving the species or whatever the eff. I just don’t think that he thinks he’s a Nazi and I don’t think he wants to be a Nazi. He wants to be something else that to many people would seem pretty rough ridin' undesirable.

The German Nazis wouldn't have considered themselves to be Nazis the way we think of them today. The connotation is pretty negative.