Let's talk about Elon Musk

[Pete]

Is this legitimate and a not AI?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFLgagXSAPw/?igsh=MWQ2N3ZrOHZhem9uNw==

[steve dave]

https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46


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[Pete]

https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46


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Well, I’d say that I do not feel “guilt” for my ancestors and I encourage my kids not to feel “guilt” for their ancestors. So, I suppose I agree with him.

[Pete]

For example, anyone who knew me when I was a lad knows that I was very much in favor of affirmative action. Not as a matter of guilt, but as a matter of doing what is necessary to address a negative situation. Now, 20-30 years on the present situation is different than it was 20-30 years ago. I feel no guilt about no longer advocating affirmative action.

[Pete]

I am 100% an Elon apologist. He’s definitely my Ben Sasse, if you will.

I think I have about a bagillion bigger concerns about MAGA than Elon’s science experiments (most of which are indeed badass and highly probable to materially benefit humanity. Have some concerns about the “not a flame thrower” tho).

[CNS]

I am 100% an Elon apologist. He’s definitely my Ben Sasse, if you will.

I think I have about a bagillion bigger concerns about MAGA than Elon’s science experiments (most of which are indeed badass and highly probable to materially benefit humanity. Have some concerns about the “not a flame thrower” tho).

I think he posses a bigger risk to individual nations than any other non-president level human, and will be come more so over time, all because of SpaceX and Starlink.  We trust him with a lot of high security stuff and he has huge interest in China, who happens to be the main nation state competitor on space stuff right now.   If you tell me that Elon wouldn't let extreme pressure from China on Tesla related business effect what he does or doesn't do in the gray area of SpaceX, I would suggest you haven't thought it all the way through.

Starlink is growing and will eventually connect a crap ton of people, governments, and militaries to themselves and others.  One guy should not have the ability to so sharply effect communications.  I think this alone is a national security threat and will only become more of one.  Same with SpaceX.  I think it is the pinnacle of short sighted to have SpaceX doing anything in NASA's place.  We should be better funding NASA instead. 

I understand the advancement SpaceX is providing.  It think it's rough ridin' stupid we are allowing that outside of America's ultimate control.

[Dugout DickStone]

Elon will ride the tide over time.  If it looks like Vance can’t win next cycle he will dump maga as fast as he joined and pick the winning team.

[steve dave]

lmao

https://x.com/econompic/status/1883303167389221355?s=46


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[michigancat]

https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46


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This was like worse than the Nazi salute.

Think about that sentence!

[114Hickory]

https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46


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This was like worse than the Nazi salute.

Think about that sentence!

In "The Question of German Guilt," Karl Jaspers noted four types of guilt (criminal, political, moral, metaphysical) providing at least some nuance to the often generalized meaning of the word.

In a recent interview, Enzo Traverso - a historian teaching at Cornell, said this: "Rather than speaking of historical guilt, I would speak of historical responsibility. I was born more than twenty years after the Ethiopian genocide perpetrated by Italian Fascism in 1935–36. I am not guilty of that Fascist genocide, but I think I would be guilty if, as an Italian citizen, I ignored my country’s past and refused to assume the historical responsibilities tied to it. As a responsible Italian citizen, I cannot ignore the crimes that belong to my country’s history."

I mean, I know we're talking about Elon's speech to the AfD here but the larger point remains.  In our rush to assuage guilt (whether in Germany, the U.S., or anywhere else), we have at best mitigated historical responsibility, if not outright denied it has any value or even exists.

[IPA4Me]

Don't ignore the past and allow it to be repeated. It's absolute crap to live with the guilt of past generations.

My family members were Scottish immigrants prior to the Revolutionary War. There's no doubt that there were slave owners somewhere along the way. Should I feel guilty for that? Absolutely not. The three generations that I've known had nothing to do with slavery.

In the German setting with regards to Nazis, we're in the first to fourth generation of the population since then. I'm sure there's quite a bit of remorse in the boomer age as they were born directly after WW2.

To Elon's point, those under 40 (even 60) should not be carrying that guilt. They had absolutely nothing to do with that crap show. Great grandparents alive today would be the first generation born to those that were alive during WW2.

[LickNeckey]

For context he is speaking to a group that some European intelligence organizations have classified as a "suspected extremist organization" and has lost a co founder and multiple party chairmen because of the organizations drift to far right totalitarianism

[CNS]

For context he is speaking to a group that some European intelligence organizations have classified as a "suspected extremist organization" and has lost a co founder and multiple party chairmen because of the organizations drift to far right totalitarianism

Yep. He is specifically saying this to the political party most likely to want to emulate it in policies.

[Pete]

https://x.com/barakravid/status/1883210731845550324?s=46


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This was like worse than the Nazi salute.

Think about that sentence!

Regarding the Nazi salute stuff, tell me how it was materially different than this:

Is this legitimate and a not AI?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFLgagXSAPw/?igsh=MWQ2N3ZrOHZhem9uNw==

[Pete]

Don't ignore the past and allow it to be repeated. It's absolute crap to live with the guilt of past generations.

My family members were Scottish immigrants prior to the Revolutionary War. There's no doubt that there were slave owners somewhere along the way. Should I feel guilty for that? Absolutely not. The three generations that I've known had nothing to do with slavery.

In the German setting with regards to Nazis, we're in the first to fourth generation of the population since then. I'm sure there's quite a bit of remorse in the boomer age as they were born directly after WW2.

To Elon's point, those under 40 (even 60) should not be carrying that guilt. They had absolutely nothing to do with that crap show. Great grandparents alive today would be the first generation born to those that were alive during WW2.

Agreed

[BIG APPLE CAT]

I  kind of took Elon’s messaging as saying “I think enough time has passed that, in the event you (Germans) repeat some of the behaviors as say…your great grandparents or great great grandparents, then you shouldn’t feel guilty or like you should have known better”

[michigancat]

I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.

The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.

[Pete]

Elon will ride the tide over time.  If it looks like Vance can’t win next cycle he will dump maga as fast as he joined and pick the winning team.

Absolutely.  I don’t share Elon’s value system, which is “ensure long term survival of the species at all costs,” but it’s very clearly understandable and predictable.

[Pete]

I am 100% an Elon apologist. He’s definitely my Ben Sasse, if you will.

I think I have about a bagillion bigger concerns about MAGA than Elon’s science experiments (most of which are indeed badass and highly probable to materially benefit humanity. Have some concerns about the “not a flame thrower” tho).

I think he posses a bigger risk to individual nations than any other non-president level human, and will be come more so over time, all because of SpaceX and Starlink.  We trust him with a lot of high security stuff and he has huge interest in China, who happens to be the main nation state competitor on space stuff right now.   If you tell me that Elon wouldn't let extreme pressure from China on Tesla related business effect what he does or doesn't do in the gray area of SpaceX, I would suggest you haven't thought it all the way through.

Starlink is growing and will eventually connect a crap ton of people, governments, and militaries to themselves and others.  One guy should not have the ability to so sharply effect communications.  I think this alone is a national security threat and will only become more of one.  Same with SpaceX.  I think it is the pinnacle of short sighted to have SpaceX doing anything in NASA's place.  We should be better funding NASA instead. 

I understand the advancement SpaceX is providing.  It think it's rough ridin' stupid we are allowing that outside of America's ultimate control.

We frequently are of the same mind on things, but not on this. I have serval points…

First, while I understand the concern with a single person or non-governmental organization having control over Starlink I think we need to also remember and respect that rough ridin' Starlink wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for that single man in the organizations he’s associated with. It’s rough ridin' miraculous relative to where we were before. There is no risk that his rough ridin' crap gets turned over to China or anything like that. It’s all run out of the United States and with the stroke of a pen,  a US president can declare a national security emergency and nationalize the entire rough ridin' thing.

Second, the thing that is truly ridiculous about space development up to this point is that a random dude with a completely unrelated high market cap company can take those funds and other private funds and essentially produce 10 times better space outcomes at 1/1000th of the cost as the United States government and the United States government’s relationships with legacy defense contractors. The opportunity was just rough ridin' sitting there and he went and did it. He doesn’t invent the rocket engines himself, He doesn’t make the flight software himself, he doesn’t do anything except say “ hey, let’s go do this cool thing at a fraction of the cost at which it has been done in the past and with 100 times more capabilities than what has been done in the past.” 

   1.   Launch Costs: SpaceX’s Falcon 9 costs ~$67 million per launch, compared to ULA’s historical $400 million per launch before Vulcan Centaur. This represents a cost reduction of up to 83% PER LAUNCH.
   2.   Crew Transport: SpaceX’s Crew Dragon costs NASA ~$55–72 million per seat, while Boeing’s Starliner costs ~$90 million per seat. This is a 20–39% lower cost.
   3.   Development Costs: Developing Falcon 9 cost ~$390 million under NASA’s COTS program, compared to traditional NASA estimates of $1.7–4 billion for similar projects, achieving savings of up to 90% as compared to EACH competing project with each competitor.

SpaceX is probably the most American rough ridin' thing ever.  This rough ridin' dude made this crap happen where entire rough ridin' nations all over this globe have tried and failed. His operation is arguably, more advanced than any nation on earth, including the United States and NASA.

[Pete]

I dare you to listen to the almost 9 hours of the Lex Friedman podcast episode on Neuralink.  My son and I listened to this on a road trip. It’s rough ridin' amazing. They are giving paralysis victims the ability live more autonomous lives and simultaneously figuring out how the brain and nervous system work. This isn’t theory, this is real lives being transformed.

https://lexfridman.com/elon-musk-and-neuralink-team

Only like an hour of this thing is Elon talking. The rest is in-depth interviews with the people who actually do this crap and the first patient and him talking about how his life is actually changed.

[CNS]

I have long thought Elon one of the most import people of the last couple generations. I also think his current behavior and political swing is worth understanding and adding that understanding to the lens we view him through. I mean, to stay consistent, Germany made a lot of tech advancements in the 30’s and 40’s. To the point that we brought a lot of nazis here and gave them our space program to run.

I respect what he’s done, but that doesn’t make his position less dangerous.  You have to admit that he seems to be governed by his ego and whims lately, and that this portion of his personality has been there for a while. Remember his online beef during the kids stuck in the cave?  Now he seems to live in the mode.

To be clear, I don’t think he would hand Starlink to China or anyone, but I am concerned he would lend use of it to some country’s military operations and selectively disrupt it to affect individual battle outcomes that might be highly critical at that time. The threat I am concerned about is a one or two time shot if he found a way to benefit his positions. I think Elon is loyal to Elon. I don’t necessarily think he would do this to us, but I definitely think he would to any other country. That may change in the future.

To top all that off, I don’t think our government is competent enough to keep a full evaluation of each changing moment with any of Elon’s pursuits. I mean, look at the SEC and how inept it is at managing financial institutions and how much of a rough ridin' joke repercussions are. Anyone who has the ability to understand and adequately monitor Elon’s stuff isn’t working for our government, they are in private companies.

I think trusting him to continue to play nice is like handling a snake or wrestling bears. Ppl do it, but I think it’s dumb and I see it as a near guarantee that the bear or snake make their handlers regret it. 

What line would Starlink or SpaceX have to cross to make you think differently of your position? Do you think he isn’t courting an extremely hard right position?  Do you think a guy who spent $250m to get Trump elected, during a cultural time where the term Nazi is being used all the time, and as the owner of the cultural online mainline, doesn’t understand what a nazi salute is and how it would be perceived?  I haven’t listened to his Lex interview, but I have heard him on Rogan twice and one on Harris(iirc). I know this guy thinks. I know he is aware.   This isn’t me trying to be a prick, and I hope it doesn’t come across like that, but I think Elons actions taken into full view show a view that presents major possible issues with a guy like that having casual access to extreme power.  I also think it’s to think this while respecting the hell out of what he has done and agreeing that it was super human.

[Pete]

He’s absolutely a risk. Anyone capable of accomplishing what he has accomplished is a risk, and anybody who has actually accomplished what he has done is an even bigger risk.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.

The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.

What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?

[Pete]

Recency bias.  I notice none of you guys talk much about the Sumerian empire or the Khans.

[Pete]

I don't know if you all watched the full clip but he also talked about the importance of "German values and culture" and the danger of losing that through "multiculturalism that dilutes everything". He stopped himself just short of keeping the bloodline clean.

The "we shouldn't feel guilty for sins of, oddly specifically, our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents" was also bad, but felt less specifically tied to Nazi ideology.

What sins do you suppose were committed by the grandparents and great-grandparents of the German people? Were they bad about leaving the water running when they brushed their teeth?

Point taken.

However, I wonder if you dudes have ever attributed any positives to the culture of Germany? I sure have.

Is it your opinion that positive cultural attributes are eternal and immutable?