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Messages - K-S-U-Wildcats!

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I don't get why everyone thinks Dany turned so fast.  Her default has been to be brutal since the beginning, but often talked out of it.  I pretty successfully muted everything related to the show & unfollowed a lot of people before the season started.  It wasn't until today I see a bunch of people mad about her "twist".  It seemed like what she's always wanted to do and became more independent to do what she wanted as the series moved on.  When her interpreter said the command to burn just before getting behead I knew she was burning everything down and tearing down the houses.

I liked that they actually had a long discussion about this very topic between Jon and Tyrion in the final epi. But I’m dubious of the argument that “she’s killed people before so napalming an entire of city of civilians after they had already surrendered is not a surprise.” It would have made more sense to provide at least a little more foundation for her flip, and it would have been so easy to do. Like maybe the city surrenders and then somebody kills her second dragon (instead of the stupid Euron bit).

I still don't get the point of the night king

Apparently neither do the writers. He was the Ice Zombie Level Boss. Arya leveled up and killed him with super jump and super stealth powers.

I'm coming around to most of the way the series ended. The half-assed disposal of the White Walker / 3ER / Jon storyline will always be unforgivable. But at least the final episode did give Bran and Jon a purpose. The Bran selection by committee thing was a bit bizarre and rushed, but it at least made Bran something other than a plot device to show flashbacks. Likewise, Jon's arc received a meaningful end - his final act with Dany and Drogon was terrific - and his final disposition was satisfying (but why is there still a Night's Watch?!)

Dany was resolved in the best way possible, all things considered. Brienne's bit with the book was touching and another good resolution. The final small council meeting was a perfect farewell to those characters.

I'm even coming around on Jamie and Cersei. I wanted something more dramatic, but there was a poetic justice in Cersei's end. And Jamie's end makes his arc all the more tragic and compelling. Even as he evolved to see Cersei for who she really was, he couldn't stop loving her and trying to protect her. That's why he rode north - not to abandon her but to protect her - and that's why he returned south.

Even Sansa and Arya were not completely insufferable in the finale.

Agree this all would have come together a bit better, especially Dany's abrupt transformation and the final committee, had it all not been so rushed.


Who wrote the book Sam presents at the end, and how the hell could Tyrion not even be mentioned? I get that it's supposed to be funny, but the dude was Jeoffrey's hand, then convicted of murdering Jeoffrey, then murdered Tywin Lannister, then became the Mad Queen's hand... how is it even possible that he wouldn't be mentioned?

What are Jon and Tormund doing at the very end? Going AWOL with the Free Folk, or just resettling them? And is that green sprig in the snow plus the FF headed north supposed to mean that spring has arrived? It doesn't look like Jon's aged a day so I guess it wasn't a long winter after all?

It was a good ending. I’m still deeply disappointed with the fizzling of the WW and Jamie storylines, but everything else was satisfying enough.

So with ONE EPISODE LEFT, a report card on what Seasons 7-8 did with every major character....

Cersei Lannister: After 6 seasons of Cersei being a generally despicable character doing generally interesting things, even some smart things such as getting the jump on Ned and obliterating her enemies in the Sept, in Seasons 7-8 Cersei does.... almost nothing. She does do the smart thing of betraying her enemies in The Great War, but otherwise when she’s not banging Ueron Greyjoy she spends most of her screentime smirking at a balcony before ultimately creeping down to the basement of the Red Keep to be buried. Huh.

Jamie Lannister: After 6 amazing seasons wherein we watched Jamie transform from a despicable monster who literally pushed a kid out the window and murdered his cousin to get back to sleeping with his twin sister, to a conflicted but honorable man who aided Brienne in helping the Stark girls, Seasons 7-8 see him abandon Cersei to do the right thing, do right by Brienne, only to.... abandon Brienne and rather than return to KL to stop Cersei he tries to escape with her only to be buried under the Red Keep. Huh.

Tyrion Lannister: After 6 seasons of Tyrion generally being the best character in the show, Seasons 7-8 relegate Jim to a supporting character and he generally ranges from sucky to boring.

Dany Targ: After 6 seasons where she rises from being sold to a warlord to amassing an army and three dragons to cross the narrow sea to reclaim her throne.... in Seasons 7-8 she makes one stupid decision after another and then suddenly goes crazy and firebombs the civilians of KL for no reason whatsoever. Huh.

Jon Snow: After 6 seasons where he rises from a bastard son of Ned Stark to Lord Commander to King in the North, where the dude is literally killed and resurrected.... in Seasons 7-8 it’s finally revealed that he is the Song of Ice and Fire - the trueborn son of Targ and Stark and rightful heir to the Iron Throne. And then he basically does jack crap against the Night King, jack crap in the battle of KL, and generally sulks and claims allegiance to Dany.

Sansa Stark: She gets way too much screentime being a dumbass in Season 7-8, but to be fair that was par for the course over the entire series.

Arya Stark: Spends the first six seasons honing her craft and nursing her grudge against Cersei and then.... in Season 7-8 she jumps out of nowhere to kill the Night King and then does absolutely nothing against Cersei.

Bran Stark: Become the 3ER who can see anything in the past and control other people and animals and has some connection to the Night King and then... in Seasons 7-8 he provides some flashbacks to further the plot and then does absolutely nothing against the Night King except sit under a tree as bait because the Night King “wants to snuff out our memories.”

White Walkers: Really, I don’t need to go into this again.

Hey - they at least got Cleganbowl right!

I will say my favorite dumb guy response to people critiquing the decline in the show is some version of  "there's friggin dragons and magic man, and you're complaining about sloppy writing and rushed plotlines? Sheesh"

My second favorite dumbass response is “stop nitpicking and just enjoy it!” Says every known dumbass who evidently had no appreciation for the storylines of Season 1-6.

Well, the carpet does not match the drapes. By carpet, I mean her eyebrows. It's one of the great GOT mysteries that will probably never be resolved with only one episode left.

I think the show deserves some criticism for the last two seasons but it was inevitable to experience a drop off. Don’t really understand how you could watch 7 and not expect 8 to be a letdown.

I did, but didn't expect it to be this bad.

GRRM is not the problem. He provided more than enough excellent source material to lead to any number of satisfying conclusions. It's more like the show runners completely forgot all the masterful work they did on season 1-4, and to a lesser extend 5-6, setting up all these great characters and story lines.

we have more than enough evidence to now conclude that the show runners are completely talentless, absolute hacks.  whatever virtues the earlier seasons had can only be attributed to a story already well-developed enough that they couldn't eff it up (and probably also grrm micromanaging the scripts to keep them from going to crap).

I don’t care how good the source material is, the writers did a phenomenal job adapting it to the first 4 seasons. It takes real skill to do that. Which is why this latest bullshit is so unexpected.

She has never targeted the innocent, and that is why fans are losing their crap.  Kill all the soldiers sure, but not the innocent women and children.   

Exactly. Comparing what Dany did to KL to her other uses of fire and fury is laughable. At most, the civilians were collateral damage. And now all of sudden she is deliberately targeting them? The sudden break is even less plausible than Anakin’s “I’m sad my mom died so now I’m gonna murder children” thing. Stupid, stupid, stupid. And I don’t even like Dany, but for goodness sakes write something for her that doesn’t completely reinvent her character from one episode to the next!

you can lay any blame for plot missteps at the feet of grrm


Agreed, GRRM is not the problem. He provided more than enough excellent source material to lead to any number of satisfying conclusions. It's more like the show runners completely forgot all the masterful work they did on season 1-4, and to a lesser extend 5-6, setting up all these great characters and story lines.

Seasons 7 and 8 are like a completely different show. This isn't a matter of being disappointed with how one character or another ends up - it's a matter of basically putting seasons 1-6 into the shredder. The White Walkers? Turns out not such a serious problem. Jon Snow? Turns out he won't really play any significant role with defeating the White Walkers or Cersei. Jamie Lannister? Turns out after a remarkable arc of character development, instead of completing his redemption he'll return to be buried with Cersei and do nothing of significance. Dany suddenly decides to napalm innocent men, women, and children even though it was completely unnecessary? So, like, she just suddenly goes mad? First Arya takes on far greater significance than she deserves in the White Walker plot line, and then she has absolutely zero significance in the Cersei plot line?! What in the seven hells is this crap?

I can’t tell if I didn’t like this episode because it wasn’t very good, or because the whole direction of the story feels so stoopid at this point. Oh, and evidently Jon Snow, for whom the entire series is based, is now an afterthought.

Seems pretty likely that the Jamie/Brienne parting makes zero sense because it’s another head fake for the audience. He’s not really pulling a 180. That would be dumb.

It also makes zero sense for him to lie to Brienne about his true plan. Except that the purpose of the lie/nonsensical action isn’t for Brienne - it’s to set up a surprise for us. This is something the writers have been doing a lot lately. Other examples are the Sansa/Arya feud orchestrated by LF, and Sansa’s decision to keep her Vale army a secret from Jon.

So Jamie’s headed back to KL to do exactly what he did before with the Mad King (maybe he’ll kill Qyburn, too). How poetic.

it's Brienne (unless Breanne is a nickname joke that i don't get)

Nah - I just can't get all the spellings right. Apparently Bronn has the two ns, too.

I’m also still a big fan of the entire Arya storyline, and I hope they don’t ruin it by having her kill Cersei.

Well, the Hound and Arya are headed to KL. We all know what they're setting up the Hound for. It seems like Arya's still got a major role to play, which is kinda annoying to me because Arya's whole super-ninja-assassin thing has worn a bit thin.

jaimie is way too good-looking for brienne. most unrealistic part of the show so far.
Dude has only one hand. Probably affects his self-esteem a bit. Plus, he was nailing his sister before. Isn't not incest an upgrade from incest no matter who he was boinking before?

Maybe Jamie loves and respects Breanne? That makes up for a lot of physical shortcomings, even for men. I actually liked this development.

This is easily the worst episode of the series, imho.

every episode for three years has been easily the worst.

Naw, I've been mostly fine with everything except the dorne adventure. Season 6 is great. Season 7 was a step back but enjoyable. I liked easing into season 8 and all the reunions. Got usually ends strong, so I still have hope but it's deteriorating quickly.

I'd add a few other really dumb plot lines, but otherwise agree.

has anyone talked about how Bronn could just waltz into a fortress and into a quiet room with the hand of the king while carrying a rough ridin' crossbow? and then they just let him waltz his happy ass back out and don't have like the army murder him or anything. And who has a rough ridin' Lord do their murdering for them?

I’m more troubled by the fact that he led off his negotiations by admitting that Cersei was probably the losing side. But yeah, your points, too. It was pretty dumb.

Meh, the books will vindicate the Meera theory if they ever get written. Disappointing that the show ditched Meera but whatever. Shows cant do everything in the books.

But everyone except known dumbasses should be disappointed by where the show went with the WW. The WW and 3ER were the central mysteries of the show - not just the books - and the show ultimately gave short shrift to both. The WW were ice zombies and the 3ER was a plot device to provide some necessary flashbacks. Okkkkk.

The whole story is about the Stark family. Everyone and everything else are secondary or tools to tell their story. This has been my belief for awhile and it has only strengthened over time.

You could be right with respect to the show. If the show runners decided to go in that direction, there's nothing to be done about that. But it's very clear from the books that the title of the series - a Song of Ice and Fire - is referring to two overarching themes: it's a story of the battle between the White Walkers (Others) and Living, and it's a story of Jon (and maybe Meera) - the product of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targ). Seeing as how the books may never be finished (by GRRM), I was hoping the show would stay true to these themes, but it decided to put more emphasis on the Game of Thrones instead.

I don't know what the real significance of the White Walkers should have been, but it should have been something more than "ice zombies to be killed before a final confrontation with Cersei." What a waste. The Battle of Winterfell should have been a defeat for the Living while revealing the deeper significance of, and connection between, the NK and 3ER and the Weirwoods (something better than "he wants to wipe out our memories" - man that was stupid). The remnants of the Targ armies should have retreated to Kings Landing for the final three-way showdown between Cersei, Targ, and the NK. That would have been epic.

pretty enjoyable reviews
I like that I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand #metoo

He has no clue.

There's a difference between what it was and what it's become. /pitout. You all know what I'm talking about.

Episode 4....

These clowns may not be able to plan a battle for crap, but they can arrange and construct a formation of funeral pyres with military precision.

Let’s party. But first, what is the chain and circle thing Stupid Sansa is always wearing? Is she trying to pull of a Maester look. Is this like the GOT equivalent of Rick Perry or Alexandria Occasional Cortex wearing glasses to look smart?

The Hound is so great. He should have been the one to kill the NK while we’re at it, because why the eff not at this point? Same for Tormund.

Would it really be so bad for Dany to be Jon’s queen and sit next to the iron throne? Why does she want it so badly anyway? Really Dany, at this point you’re just being a pill.

Drunk Breanne is more fun. Just ask Jamie. :woot:

Wait, first Sansa is pissed to be wasting all of Winterfell’s stores on armies - now she wants to keep them here? SMDH Stupid Sansa.

Wait, Bron is going to go on “the word” of two people on the other end of his crossbow? After already telling them that Cersei’s the losing side? That was a disappointingly dumb exchange.

Seems like a lot of final-ish farewells going on here. Tormund. Ghost. Sam. Surely not Jamie and Breanne?

Urien welcomes Dany back to Dragonstone. Did not see that coming. Neither did they. Dany’s got a serious problem now, and Jon’s looking like a better and better option. Not just to Varys.

Come on Jamie. Really? Really? Ugh.

Tyrion is back to being great again. So if you’re Missandeh, you jump and take your chances right?

She appeared well after the Hulk snap.

Oops it was actually Stark that used the infinity stones to kill all the Thanos baddies, right? Is she shown after that happens? Can’t remember.

One kinda interesting question to me is what happened to Gamora at the end of the movie, and are the Guardians looking for new (past) Gamora or old (present) Gamora? I’m thinking the Hulk fingersnap vaporized all the people from that timeline, including her.

Oh and one more thing: the previews. I know this is going to sound old and crotchety, but the movies this summer look like crap, and Di$ney snapping everything up does not bode well (I acknowledge the irony).

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