KSUFans Archives
Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: Jeffrey_Martin on January 19, 2010, 09:39:19 AM
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
this would seem out of place for Curry.
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Thanks for the buzz kill Jmart. :frown:
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Pretty clear to me that Frank needs to be paid somewhere in the neighborhood of the Top 4 coaches in the league. At least in the upper half. At least.
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Frank Martin himself is just as important as the success at this point in time, imo.
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curry has no clue as to the hell and fury that will be unleashed on him if he ends up being responsible for frank & co leaving. no clue.
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Without Frank, this program goes straight into the crapper. :flush:
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MEH!!!
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what f'ing morons wouldn't say what frank has accomplished doesn't deserve 1.2-1.5million a year. christ, we gave old balls more money, we've extended the f'ing baseball coach for getting to the post season just once, that lady lover of a women's basketball coach got a raise/extension and has repeatedly pissed away her talent...and now some dude comes in here and gets (a) good players and (b) wins games and (c) fills up that OOD and these f'ing morons in the AD office think "we can get someone better". Seriously? Christ almighty, if they let frank go all that momentum that has basically crushed 20 years of losing will be lost. We f'ing didn't rush the court after beating the #1 team in the nation....because we f'ing expected to win.
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(785) 532-6912
[email protected]
Flood his inbox.
this is a demand by EMAW nation, not a request!
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curry has no clue to the hell and fury that will be unleashed on him if he ends up being responsible for frank & co leaving. no clue.
the first thing that went through my head when i read this was "is currie suicidal". because, should he fail to retain martin, some noble kstatriot would definitely john wilkes booth him within the month.
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:ohno:
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christ, we gave old balls more money.
infuriating. it's like kstate is looking for new ways to slap martin in the face.
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is this gonna be similar to the Mike Leach vs. Tech crap? If so, i don't like the way that one ended.
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Message sent. Awaiting humble reply.
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email sent
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I wonder how recent this information is? :dunno:
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Emails sent. Told him that he does not want the Angriest Fanbase in America to turn on him. It would not end well for him. :piratecaptain:
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J-mart is good. Real good.
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
I strongly believe Currie was waiting for a performance like this before he puts the ink to paper. Granted Martin has done a hell of a job, we were only 3 games into conference before last night. I'm going to give Currie the benefit of the doubt and assume hes not a total RAtard. He was just waiting for a game like this before he decided how many "0's" went after the "1."
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KITN would not accurately summarize what this would mean.
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
:baityes: your fishing right??? surely Currie isn't that stupid..
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Some of this goes back to the gift that keeps giving: Bob Krause.
He locked Snyder into that contract, which raised everyone's eyebrows - $1.85 million per year? Then, what you essentially did, was blow the salary structure out of whack. K-State isn't Texas, where almost $8 million is tied into salaries for the football coach ($5 million per) and the basketball coach ($2.2 million). It's not OU, OSU, etc. Even in the North, it feels it's not ku (both coaches at $2 million annually) or MU (not sure what Anderson is making, but Pinkel is over $2 million).
As we all know by now, K-State likes to do things on the cheap. The school isn't going to pay its football coach and basketball coach a combined $3.5-4 million. Not going to happen. And with the Prince saga yet to be resolved, the current athletic director is going to ride the fiscal responsibility/restraint train because he thinks that will appease the masses. But what he doesn't realize is that K-Staters are also fair, and they - at least most of you - believe that Frank deserves a substantial raise.
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Some of this goes back to the gift that keeps giving: Bob Krause.
He locked Snyder into that contract, which raised everyone's eyebrows - $1.85 million per year? Then, what you essentially did, was blow the salary structure out of whack. K-State isn't Texas, where almost $8 million is tied into salaries for the football coach ($5 million per) and the basketball coach ($2.2 million). It's not OU, OSU, etc. Even in the North, it feels it's not ku (both coaches at $2 million annually) or MU (not sure what Anderson is making, but Pinkel is over $2 million).
As we all know by now, K-State likes to do things on the cheap. The school isn't going to pay its football coach and basketball coach a combined $3.5-4 million. Not going to happen. And with the Prince saga yet to be resolved, the current athletic director is going to ride the fiscal responsibility/restraint train because he thinks that will appease the masses. But what he doesn't realize is that K-Staters are also fair, and they - at least most of you - believe that Frank deserves a substantial raise.
Well put.
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Called and left a message with his sec. Rita. Very nice gal. No pursestrings to pull on my part, but voiced my opinion.
She stated that she will forward my concern to ADJC. However, we all know that without the phone ringing off the hook, he will not hear of our concerns!
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Some of this goes back to the gift that keeps giving: Bob Krause.
He locked Snyder into that contract, which raised everyone's eyebrows - $1.85 million per year? Then, what you essentially did, was blow the salary structure out of whack. K-State isn't Texas, where almost $8 million is tied into salaries for the football coach ($5 million per) and the basketball coach ($2.2 million). It's not OU, OSU, etc. Even in the North, it feels it's not ku (both coaches at $2 million annually) or MU (not sure what Anderson is making, but Pinkel is over $2 million).
As we all know by now, K-State likes to do things on the cheap. The school isn't going to pay its football coach and basketball coach a combined $3.5-4 million. Not going to happen. And with the Prince saga yet to be resolved, the current athletic director is going to ride the fiscal responsibility/restraint train because he thinks that will appease the masses. But what he doesn't realize is that K-Staters are also fair, and they - at least most of you - believe that Frank deserves a substantial raise.
If Bill truly loves KSU, he should work for like 900k. But Bill only loves Bill.
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I agree that he needs a raise, but we can't forget the assistants too. We have a awesome program here. One thing that we need to remember when paying coaches that we are competing with other colleges. The national media has noticed Frank, so have all the division one colleges. We have been wanting a awesome basketball program since the 80's and now that we have one we better keep it. The other thing we need to think of too is Martin's wish list for the program like practice facilities. It's good that we are thinking of this now instead of reacting to a college that is knocking on Frank's door. This should/better get addressed at the end of the season.
I hope that the Martin family and coaching staff families likes Manhattan that would be a plus in holding them too.
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Some of this goes back to the gift that keeps giving: Bob Krause.
He locked Snyder into that contract, which raised everyone's eyebrows - $1.85 million per year? Then, what you essentially did, was blow the salary structure out of whack. K-State isn't Texas, where almost $8 million is tied into salaries for the football coach ($5 million per) and the basketball coach ($2.2 million). It's not OU, OSU, etc. Even in the North, it feels it's not ku (both coaches at $2 million annually) or MU (not sure what Anderson is making, but Pinkel is over $2 million).
As we all know by now, K-State likes to do things on the cheap. The school isn't going to pay its football coach and basketball coach a combined $3.5-4 million. Not going to happen. And with the Prince saga yet to be resolved, the current athletic director is going to ride the fiscal responsibility/restraint train because he thinks that will appease the masses. But what he doesn't realize is that K-Staters are also fair, and they - at least most of you - believe that Frank deserves a substantial raise.
yeah, will be awesome to see how much money we can save on hiring Chris Lowery or Gregg Marshall. We won't have to worry about the expenses related to (a) staffing games with as many attendant or concession workers (b) recruiting budgets (c) pesky staffing for special events like big monday or gameday......because no one will f'ing come to the games.
it would be f'ing absurd not to sign frank for his worth. it would cost us far more in revenue than the "expense" we would "save". Currie should know this, and if he doesn't he (and Shultz) should be fired.
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Some of this goes back to the gift that keeps giving: Bob Krause.
He locked Snyder into that contract, which raised everyone's eyebrows - $1.85 million per year? Then, what you essentially did, was blow the salary structure out of whack. K-State isn't Texas, where almost $8 million is tied into salaries for the football coach ($5 million per) and the basketball coach ($2.2 million). It's not OU, OSU, etc. Even in the North, it feels it's not ku (both coaches at $2 million annually) or MU (not sure what Anderson is making, but Pinkel is over $2 million).
As we all know by now, K-State likes to do things on the cheap. The school isn't going to pay its football coach and basketball coach a combined $3.5-4 million. Not going to happen. And with the Prince saga yet to be resolved, the current athletic director is going to ride the fiscal responsibility/restraint train because he thinks that will appease the masses. But what he doesn't realize is that K-Staters are also fair, and they - at least most of you - believe that Frank deserves a substantial raise.
This doesn't surprise me at all. If it was the old administration, I'd blame it on the 'poor boy' syndrome, but I think BK is the bigger reason in this.
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I wish you were still working for the Eagle/Star so this info might possibly get out there and force Currie's hand.
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Wow, Jmart comes out and says basically what I've been saying for the last two seasons. yes! :woohoo:
Pay this crew or they are going to leave. Period.
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MEH!!!
you can't be serious. When you post stuff like this it shows me that you nothing about what is going on behind closed doors. Seriously.
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Wow, Jmart comes out and says basically what I've been saying for the last two seasons. yes! :woohoo:
:jerkoff:
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Currie knows he can increase season tickets, right? For f*ck sake, I'll (and I'm assuming more ksu'ers) pay more $$ if I get to watch good basketball. But I'm not shelling out sh*t to watch Gregg Marshall or whateve retard who would come work for 760K.
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Krause, the gift that keeps giving.
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Some of this goes back to the gift that keeps giving: Bob Krause.
He locked Snyder into that contract, which raised everyone's eyebrows - $1.85 million per year? Then, what you essentially did, was blow the salary structure out of whack. K-State isn't Texas, where almost $8 million is tied into salaries for the football coach ($5 million per) and the basketball coach ($2.2 million). It's not OU, OSU, etc. Even in the North, it feels it's not ku (both coaches at $2 million annually) or MU (not sure what Anderson is making, but Pinkel is over $2 million).
As we all know by now, K-State likes to do things on the cheap. The school isn't going to pay its football coach and basketball coach a combined $3.5-4 million. Not going to happen. And with the Prince saga yet to be resolved, the current athletic director is going to ride the fiscal responsibility/restraint train because he thinks that will appease the masses. But what he doesn't realize is that K-Staters are also fair, and they - at least most of you - believe that Frank deserves a substantial raise.
If Bill truly loves KSU, he should work for like 900k. But Bill only loves Bill.
MEH!!
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Some of this goes back to the gift that keeps giving: Bob Krause.
He locked Snyder into that contract, which raised everyone's eyebrows - $1.85 million per year? Then, what you essentially did, was blow the salary structure out of whack. K-State isn't Texas, where almost $8 million is tied into salaries for the football coach ($5 million per) and the basketball coach ($2.2 million). It's not OU, OSU, etc. Even in the North, it feels it's not ku (both coaches at $2 million annually) or MU (not sure what Anderson is making, but Pinkel is over $2 million).
As we all know by now, K-State likes to do things on the cheap. The school isn't going to pay its football coach and basketball coach a combined $3.5-4 million. Not going to happen. And with the Prince saga yet to be resolved, the current athletic director is going to ride the fiscal responsibility/restraint train because he thinks that will appease the masses. But what he doesn't realize is that K-Staters are also fair, and they - at least most of you - believe that Frank deserves a substantial raise.
:curse: :curse: :curse: don't ever bring up Krause's name again.
I sent Currie an email too. Hopefully he can come up with the cash to pay Martin $1.2 million. Martin is worth it and I think Martin is fair enough that he would take it because he loves KSU. EMAW
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IMO, the Krause thing is a cop out. Bullsh*t. We have money. Not a lot, but we do and certainly enough to raise frank and his staff’s compensation. And if we don’t, Currie better get his ass out there and get it. That's his f'ing job.
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IMO, the Krause thing is a cop out. Bullsh*t. We have money. Not a lot, but we do and certainly enough to raise frank and his staff’s compensation. And if we don’t, Currie better get his ass out there and get it. That's his f'ing job.
You would think today/the rest of this week would be a great time to call up the big donors.
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Wow, Jmart comes out and says basically what I've been saying for the last two seasons. yes! :woohoo:
Pay this crew or they are going to leave. Period.
jeffrey's post contained info you've never come close to providing. if you want a reaction you have to bring details. just handwringing about miami isn't going to get anything done.
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Currie should wait until the end of the year and then make a move. Things look fan-freaking-tastic now, but I remember all the "lock-up Prince" talk after he beat texas in Austin. Wait until the end of the year and if we end up having the incredible year it looks like we are on pace for, then make a move and double Martin and Hill's salary. Raise ticket prices...do whatever...just get it done.
BTW, I have always felt like Curry didn't like Martin for some reason. I don't know why...just had that feeling.
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Some of this goes back to the gift that keeps giving: Bob Krause.
He locked Snyder into that contract, which raised everyone's eyebrows - $1.85 million per year? Then, what you essentially did, was blow the salary structure out of whack. K-State isn't Texas, where almost $8 million is tied into salaries for the football coach ($5 million per) and the basketball coach ($2.2 million). It's not OU, OSU, etc. Even in the North, it feels it's not ku (both coaches at $2 million annually) or MU (not sure what Anderson is making, but Pinkel is over $2 million).
As we all know by now, K-State likes to do things on the cheap. The school isn't going to pay its football coach and basketball coach a combined $3.5-4 million. Not going to happen. And with the Prince saga yet to be resolved, the current athletic director is going to ride the fiscal responsibility/restraint train because he thinks that will appease the masses. But what he doesn't realize is that K-Staters are also fair, and they - at least most of you - believe that Frank deserves a substantial raise.
Jeff you are right on about doing things on the cheap. Thanks for the tip on Martins pay. Good solid programs that are good year after year are not run "on the cheap". This can be one of the most painful lessons to learn. I think of when Oklahoma came to Stoops and hired him and took the assistants I bet they (the assistants)all got more pay than here. When Nebraska had Osborne as a coach they never had a assistant turnover, they all got paid very well. I hope that we have learned some lessons from the past and better think very carefully here. Do you think that the AD is dragging his feet because he has to feel out what I call the "fat cats" or financial backers?
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would almost be easier if Frank and staff were to find something else ASAP and just get out of town. I have the feeling (because I've been following K-State for 20+ yrs) that this will end badly, we all know it will.
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I really just think that the current athletic director doesn't get it, and that's all I'll add on that.
Use your voices. Contact the AD, but don't stop there. Hit up the president, too. Go right to the top. He might not know what's going on in these negotiations...
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Got Katz to chim in
Nick (Manhattan KS)
Can you see a place/opportunity that Frank Martin would leave K-State for?
Andy Katz (11:32 AM)
Not at this juncture. He's doing a fantastic job.
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I really just think that the current athletic director doesn't get it, and that's all I'll add on that.
very scary if true. i have a hard time believing that he could be that obtuse. as was mentioned earlier, it could be a personal thing b/w him and martin.
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I really just think that the current athletic director doesn't get it, and that's all I'll add on that.
Use your voices. Contact the AD, but don't stop there. Hit up the president, too. Go right to the top. He might not know what's going on in these negotiations...
can you save us? :(
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This is all part of ADJC's master plan between him and Frank.
ADJC: Hey, Frank, we've taken a bunch of hits in the press for all these bullcrape payouts Krause and Weefy made and people think the athletic department is in fiscal disarray. I can't allow the perception that we just pay millions to a 3rd year head coach because you got to the tournament once.
Frank: I'm with you, Johnny. I'll do whatever I can. The boys tell me that the true "base" of the fans posts on ksufans.com and their ability to mobilize the rest of the fans is unbelievable. How about I drop some OOD references and sport a beard to get those guys fired up.
ADJC: Yeah, yeah, I like that - it's starting to come together. How about I leak that we're going to try to low-ball you right after we get one of the biggest wins in the last 20 years of our program and get those guys angried up and play into their concerns that the program will go back to Wooly stages, unleash a firestorm of torment upon me, so I can tell Schultzy that I legitimately fear for my safety if we don't figure out how to retain you.
Frank: Johnny, THIS is the kind of strategizing I've always thought a school needs out of their AD. We both know I don't want to go anywhere else. I want to stay where I'm loved and have been accepted from day one. I want to rebuild this into a dynasty that challenges ku every year. I'd just like to have a little sugar to help out with being so far away from home.
ADJC: Well, that's the plan - wonder who I should leak it to?
Frank: The boys tell me J-Mart is the one person who can leak this information and have instant credibility with the ksufans.com board and get people off their ass and ringing your phone.
ADJC: I love it when a plan comes together.
:kstatriot:
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would almost be easier if Frank and staff were to find something else ASAP and just get out of town. I have the feeling (because I've been following K-State for 20+ yrs) that this will end badly, we all know it will.
If this really happens, then we haven't learned any lessons from years past. Then I will begin to lose hope that we'll never get it.
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I believe Frank deserves a raise more than anyone but if you're going to call or email and bitch out Currie you'd better have your checkbook out to make a donation. Pretty hipocritical to bitch about an extension/raise and KSU being tight if you aren't willing to kick in some $$ to help out. :bballonlyfan:
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would almost be easier if Frank and staff were to find something else ASAP and just get out of town. I have the feeling (because I've been following K-State for 20+ yrs) that this will end badly, we all know it will.
If this really happens, then we haven't learned any lessons from years past. Then I will begin to lose hope that we'll never get it.
what, at this point in time, has given you reason to believe that we've learned anything from the mistakes this athletic dept has made in the past? really, I'm searching and would love to find something. pls post here if something tangible comes up.
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Wow, Jmart comes out and says basically what I've been saying for the last two seasons. yes! :woohoo:
:jerkoff:
tapout noted. Hilarious you would disagree.
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I believe Frank deserves a raise more than anyone but if you're going to call or email and bitch out Currie you'd better have your checkbook out to make a donation. Pretty hipocritical to bitch about an extension/raise and KSU being tight if you aren't willing to kick in some $$ to help out. :bballonlyfan:
Excellent point! :thumbsup:
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Wow, Jmart comes out and says basically what I've been saying for the last two seasons. yes! :woohoo:
:jerkoff:
tapout noted. Hilarious you would disagree.
sys summed up my position perfectly, tard. You haven't given ANY real information.
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This is why we need the grass roots fundraiser/parade.
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This thread alone with guarantee elite level KatPak'rs tickets to roadys for years to come
:love:
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I really just think that the current athletic director doesn't get it, and that's all I'll add on that.
Use your voices. Contact the AD, but don't stop there. Hit up the president, too. Go right to the top. He might not know what's going on in these negotiations...
christ almighty. we're doomed. :facepalm:
what a complete and total dipsh*t currie is if he thinks that the ksu fans want fiscal responsibility. we don't want to pay for people that have done nothing to deserve (i.e. Prince or Krause's hiring). we're completely fine with paying people what they deserve. and LMAO if Currie thinks he's going to have the political will to fire Snyder or push him out when it comes to it if he let's frank walk. goddammit, we can never have anything nice.
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This thread alone with guarantee elite level KatPak'rs tickets to roadys for years to come
:love:
Nothing gets past you, huh? :)
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Someone find and post the Big 12 HC salaries please. tia.
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If our admin is old school we need to do a letter writing campaign. I think I may do some email and formal letter.
(in all seriousness write letters. Give them something concert and meaningful. Tell them your thoughts and what you are willing to do to help out re:donations)
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Currie should wait until the end of the year and then make a move. Things look fan-freaking-tastic now, but I remember all the "lock-up Prince" talk after he beat texas in Austin.
What a complete load of crap.
Anyone watching Ron Prince's teams would have noted extremely uneven performances and that the wins were of the "done with mirrors" variety and involved a lot of non-repeatable trickery & lucky bounces. Further Prince recruited strictly sub-major talent & a bunch of shrimps who would've been lucky to have been allowed to walk on at most majors.
Frank's teams win because they brutalize opponents, it's very clearly a reflection of Frank's style and intensity. Note that this is the polar opposite of Ron's approach. Ron promised the moon and delivered a big bag of crap, Frank promises only that he'll ride his players mercilessly until they play the game his way. And he recruits legitimate DI talent, another big difference from RP.
Ron Prince was the Barack Obama of college sports: all bullcrap no substance and in waaay over his head. Frank is exactly the opposite: all substance, no bullcrap. K-State fans *REALLY* need to learn to recognize the difference. Waiting until the end of the season pretty much guarantees that Frank's next deal will be in the $2M/year range ... and that it won't be at KSU.
If we want to keep Frank here we need to ride Currie the way Frank rode Jake during his freshman season.
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Some of this goes back to the gift that keeps giving: Bob Krause.
He locked Snyder into that contract, which raised everyone's eyebrows - $1.85 million per year? Then, what you essentially did, was blow the salary structure out of whack. K-State isn't Texas, where almost $8 million is tied into salaries for the football coach ($5 million per) and the basketball coach ($2.2 million). It's not OU, OSU, etc. Even in the North, it feels it's not ku (both coaches at $2 million annually) or MU (not sure what Anderson is making, but Pinkel is over $2 million).
As we all know by now, K-State likes to do things on the cheap. The school isn't going to pay its football coach and basketball coach a combined $3.5-4 million. Not going to happen. And with the Prince saga yet to be resolved, the current athletic director is going to ride the fiscal responsibility/restraint train because he thinks that will appease the masses. But what he doesn't realize is that K-Staters are also fair, and they - at least most of you - believe that Frank deserves a substantial raise.
If Bill truly loves KSU, he should work for like 900k. But Bill only loves Bill.
he should work for free at least until he gets us to a bowl game.
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pay Frank, love Frank
p.s. in your sig line it appears that there was a large spike in gov spending in the 40's why was that. Was that an attempt to rescue the country from a devastating economic recession?
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pay Frank, love Frank
p.s. in your sig line it appears that there was a large spike in gov spending in the 40's why was that. Was that an attempt to rescue the country from a devastating economic recession?
Maybe that should be our new chant instead of Well Done/Good Job or whatever...
"Pay Frank"
Or "We love/want Frank"
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
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ku 3M
UT 2M
MU 1.55M
OSU 1.3M
A&M 1.2M
OU 1.05M
CU 800k
NU 800K
KSU 760K
ISU 650k
BU unkown
TT unkown
...yeah, so f'ing pay Frank 1.3M and call this thing good. He's done nothing but finish there, might want to pay him like it. especially considering the OOD is filled more than it has been for the last 20 years. F you Currie. Go get money.
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
Right...
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ku 3M
UT 2M
MU 1.55M
OSU 1.3M
A&M 1.2M
OU 1.05M
CU 800k
NU 800K
KSU 760K
ISU 650k
BU unkown
TT unkown
...yeah, so f'ing pay Frank 1.3M and call this thing good.
Exactly. All this talk about "fiscal responsibility" cracks me up, considering that nothing stops donations faster than losing, while nothing brings them in faster than winning.
This isn't rocket science.
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ku 3M
UT 2M
MU 1.55M
OSU 1.3M
A&M 1.2M
OU 1.05M
CU 800k
NU 800K
KSU 760K
ISU 650k
BU unkown
TT unkown
...yeah, so f'ing pay Frank 1.3M and call this thing good. He's done nothing but finish there, might want to pay him like it. especially considering the OOD is filled more than it has been for the last 20 years. F you Currie. Go get money.
Yeah, he deserves more than Ford and less than Anderson at this point. If Currie waits, and we make a late run in the tourney, he deserves more than Anderson and Currie missed what was probably a golden opportunity to wrap him up for less.
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Scot Drew >$600,000
Jeff Bzdelik $800,000
Greg McDermott $650,000
Frank Martin $760,000
Bill Self $3,000,000
Mike Anderson $860,000
Doc Sadler $800,000
Travis Ford $1,300,000
Jeff Capel $1,050,000
Mark Turd $1,200,000
Pat Knight $ Median Big 12 salary < - - - interesting
Rick Barnes $2,000,000
I have no idea how accurate or reliable these are but they seem to be close.
http://nextyearsteam.com/index.php?option=com_jreviews&Itemid=180 (http://nextyearsteam.com/index.php?option=com_jreviews&Itemid=180)
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If he doesn't have an extension by the end of big 12 play someone ought to burn down Anderson Hall.
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Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
are you retarded?
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
Right...
Given K-State's history with giving relatively new untried coaches significant raises...
Yes, right...
:ksu:
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Why do you think Currie is a smart dude? The guy seems like a tard, honestly.
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Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
are you retarded?
Are you 11?
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Are mid season extensions that common??
Also, it is extremely :eek: and :facepalm: to see that Bzzzz and Doc make more than Frank.
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
Right...
Given K-State's history with giving relatively new untried coaches significant raises...
Yes, right...
:ksu:
you're clueless if you think Frank = Ron. I mean, you just have absolutely no idea if you think this.
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Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
are you retarded?
:impatient:
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I honestly don't know the answer, but is Frank even making more than Asbury or Wooly did yet?
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
There's a thread on GPC noting Jeff's comments here with about 20 responses almost identical to this. We have to realize that this is what a majority of KSU fans are. Bumbling rubes.
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J-Mart, thanks for the info, but why today?
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J-Mart, thanks for the info, but why today?
Because there is no longer any excuse (Though I would argue there was already no excuse)
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
There's a thread on GPC noting Jeff's comments here with about 20 responses almost identical to this. We have to realize that this is what a majority of KSU fans are. Bumbling rubes.
Seriously though if K-State is monitoring GPC and taking their opinion, then there is absolutely no hope... for any amount of sustained success in anything related to K-State.
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pay Frank, love Frank
p.s. in your sig line it appears that there was a large spike in gov spending in the 40's why was that. Was that an attempt to rescue the country from a devastating economic recession?
This would be the effort to defeat the one known as Hitler in WWII, pull out a history book. And yes, it did pull us out of the great depression with all the war time spending.
I would like to see Frank stay right here for as long as possible. Time to find some money Currie, because other universities will if we dont.
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
There's a thread on GPC noting Jeff's comments here with about 20 responses almost identical to this. We have to realize that this is what a majority of KSU fans are. Bumbling rubes.
Well, word is Fitz is going to write something to the same or similar effect soon enough, and then the GPC flock will be moved to action. Maybe.
-
I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
There's a thread on GPC noting Jeff's comments here with about 20 responses almost identical to this. We have to realize that this is what a majority of KSU fans are. Bumbling rubes.
Seriously though if K-State is monitoring GPC and taking their opinion, then there is absolutely no hope... for any amount of sustained success in anything related to K-State.
Well, given our admin's constant excuse of being poor I doubt they have premium
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J-Mart, thanks for the info, but why today?
Because it's absurd that something hadn't been worked out already, and after last night, it's literally laughable. You talk about ambassadors of programs? Frank Martin IS K-State. No reason not to lock the man up long-term.
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There's a thread on GPC noting Jeff's comments here with about 20 responses almost identical to this. We have to realize that this is what a majority of KSU fans are. Bumbling rubes.
[/quote]
Yes that was me that started that. I hope J- Mart doesn't mind me passing this info on. I have met J- Mart in OKC last year and said hello to him at the KatPak in Vegas, so I didn't think he would mind. Let me know if you do J-Mart and I will delete the thread.
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J-Mart, thanks for the info, but why today?
Because it's absurd that something hadn't been worked out already, and after last night, it's literally laughable. You talk about ambassadors of programs? Frank Martin IS K-State. No reason not to lock the man up long-term.
To be fair, it's not really absurd that a deal isn't in place yet. It would be absurd if we're trying to short-change him and dragging our feet purposefully, however.
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Why do you think Currie is a smart dude? The guy seems like a tard, honestly.
kstaters have an amazing capacity to believe whatever they want to believe.
available evidence that currie is smart: 1) responds promptly to email. 2) ???
available evidence that currie isn't smart: the best connected beat writer kstate has ever had is publicly posting that he's a dumbass.
available evidence that martin is happy at kstate: none.
available evidence that martin isn't happy at kstate: 1) his salary is an insult, 2) the best connected beat writer kstate has ever had is publicly posting that he has one foot out the door.
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
Quit trying to stir the pot... Curry seems like quite the honorable guy, so far. Let the season play out and see what happens. I think Frank's happy, and Curry has eyes and ears. I think he's a smart dude. We don't need any controversies at this point!
:ksu:
There's a thread on GPC noting Jeff's comments here with about 20 responses almost identical to this. We have to realize that this is what a majority of KSU fans are. Bumbling rubes.
Well, word is Fitz is going to write something to the same or similar effect soon enough, and then the GPC flock will be moved to action. Maybe.
My point was all this talk of extensions is simply fueled by the big win last night. Better to address things when it all settles and heads are clearer.
And I was NEVER comparing FM to RP; it's was more a comparison of our inexperienced knee-jerk temporary AD to Curry. BIG difference.
I repeat. I don't think we need anyone trying to stir up any controversies. Frank seems to be happy and I trust Curry to treat him fair if and when the time comes.
:ksu:
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Why do you think Currie is a smart dude? The guy seems like a tard, honestly.
kstaters have an amazing capacity to believe whatever they want to believe.
available evidence that currie is smart: 1) responds promptly to email. 2) ???
available evidence that currie isn't smart: the best connected beat writer kstate has ever had is publicly posting that he's a dumbass.
available evidence that martin is happy at kstate: none.
available evidence that martin isn't happy at kstate: 1) his salary is an insult, 2) the best connected beat writer kstate has ever had is publicly posting that he has one foot out the door.
Um, if I'm the best connected guy you're talking about, much respect. But I have to quibble with your second point on Martin. I never said he had one foot out the door. You can infer that, and I'd be fine with that, but those words never came out of my mouth.
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Why do you think Currie is a smart dude? The guy seems like a tard, honestly.
kstaters have an amazing capacity to believe whatever they want to believe.
available evidence that currie is smart: 1) responds promptly to email. 2) ???
available evidence that currie isn't smart: the best connected beat writer kstate has ever had is publicly posting that he's a dumbass.
available evidence that martin is happy at kstate: none.
available evidence that martin isn't happy at kstate: 1) his salary is an insult, 2) the best connected beat writer kstate has ever had is publicly posting that he has one foot out the door.
Um, if I'm the best connected guy you're talking about, much respect. But I have to quibble with your second point on Martin. I never said he had one foot out the door. You can infer that, and I'd be fine with that, but those words never came out of my mouth.
THAT'S OUR SYS!!! :thumbsup:
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My point was all this talk of extensions is simply fueled by the big win last night. Better to address things when it all settles and heads are clearer.
And I was NEVER comparing FM to RP; it's was more a comparison of our inexperienced knee-jerk temporary AD to Curry. BIG difference.
I repeat. I don't think we need anyone trying to stir up any controversies. Frank seems to be happy and I trust Curry to treat him fair if and when the time comes.
:ksu:
The talk of extensions is/was not fueled by last night's win, if anything its just an explanation point. It would not be knee-jerk to begin work on a new contract for a coach that has only shown steady progress in not only maintaining, but building upon the base he recieved when he took the job. Really, just look at the list of accomplishments for Frank right now, whether it be wins over ranked teams, attendance, road wins, league wins, overall wins, etc. and its hard to not see a need to bring his annual pay over $1 mil. We're not asking for him to be paid like Barners or Self, or even Anderson. But he should at least be paid like an upper division Big 12 coach and its hard for me to not see him in that light.
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Honestly, I think Currie is either a genius or a dumbass. He's either a genius for leaking this stuff out and getting the base riled up so that he's FORCED to give him a raise or he's a dumbass for playing chicken with what may potentially be the best coach we've had here in 40 years, and yes, I'm including Hartman and Kruger in that. He has what appears to me to be the best foundation for consistent success since Hartman.
Let's be real, in the short timeframe Currie has been here, he doesn't know exactly how Frank has done what he's done, i.e. recruiting success and Frank hasn't been vetted by time. He's a very young BCS AD who wants to be at that level or higher for a very long time. If he pukes out a huge raise all on his own after a big win and somehow we get USC'd - his career will take a huge nosedive and he'll be the AD at Alcorn State. I understand his need to become more comfortable with Frank's methodology before going nuts OR getting the fan base so riled up that he had no choice, so he has a bit of a scapegoat.
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Why do you think Currie is a smart dude? The guy seems like a tard, honestly.
kstaters have an amazing capacity to believe whatever they want to believe.
available evidence that currie is smart: 1) responds promptly to email. 2) ???
available evidence that currie isn't smart: the best connected beat writer kstate has ever had is publicly posting that he's a dumbass.
available evidence that martin is happy at kstate: none.
available evidence that martin isn't happy at kstate: 1) his salary is an insult, 2) the best connected beat writer kstate has ever had is publicly posting that he has one foot out the door.
The k-state fan base is THE most naive in the country. Simpleton jerkoffs.
We don't deserve this basketball program.
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Honestly, I think Currie is either a genius or a dumbass. He's either a genius for leaking this stuff out and getting the base riled up so that he's FORCED to give him a raise or he's a dumbass for playing chicken with what may potentially be the best coach we've had here in 40 years, and yes, I'm including Hartman and Kruger in that. He has what appears to me to be the best foundation for consistent success since Hartman.
Let's be real, in the short timeframe Currie has been here, he doesn't know exactly how Frank has done what he's done, i.e. recruiting success and Frank hasn't been vetted by time. He's a very young BCS AD who wants to be at that level or higher for a very long time. If he pukes out a huge raise all on his own after a big win and somehow we get USC'd - his career will take a huge nosedive and he'll be the AD at Alcorn State. I understand his need to become more comfortable with Frank's methodology before going nuts OR getting the fan base so riled up that he had no choice, so he has a bit of a scapegoat.
The "leak" didn't come from Currie's side.
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My point was all this talk of extensions is simply fueled by the big win last night. Better to address things when it all settles and heads are clearer.
And I was NEVER comparing FM to RP; it's was more a comparison of our inexperienced knee-jerk temporary AD to Curry. BIG difference.
I repeat. I don't think we need anyone trying to stir up any controversies. Frank seems to be happy and I trust Curry to treat him fair if and when the time comes.
:ksu:
The talk of extensions is/was not fueled by last night's win, if anything its just an explanation point. It would not be knee-jerk to begin work on a new contract for a coach that has only shown steady progress in not only maintaining, but building upon the base he recieved when he took the job. Really, just look at the list of accomplishments for Frank right now, whether it be wins over ranked teams, attendance, road wins, league wins, overall wins, etc. and its hard to not see a need to bring his annual pay over $1 mil. We're not asking for him to be paid like Barners or Self, or even Anderson. But he should at least be paid like an upper division Big 12 coach and its hard for me to not see him in that light.
He needs to get him the money tomorrow and retro pay for this year. Then he needs to get a noticable effort for practice facilities by the end of the season. Then he'd better be in Frank's office hand feeding that beautiful man grapes and filing his nails. The guy earned it last year. Currie I've liked you in the past, but this is your only job right now. Get it done or take your googely ass back to Tennesse. :bballonlyfan:
p.s. the time came last year. GMAFB
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MOTHER FRACKER.... :buh-bye:
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Honestly, I think Currie is either a genius or a dumbass. He's either a genius for leaking this stuff out and getting the base riled up so that he's FORCED to give him a raise or he's a dumbass for playing chicken with what may potentially be the best coach we've had here in 40 years, and yes, I'm including Hartman and Kruger in that. He has what appears to me to be the best foundation for consistent success since Hartman.
Let's be real, in the short timeframe Currie has been here, he doesn't know exactly how Frank has done what he's done, i.e. recruiting success and Frank hasn't been vetted by time. He's a very young BCS AD who wants to be at that level or higher for a very long time. If he pukes out a huge raise all on his own after a big win and somehow we get USC'd - his career will take a huge nosedive and he'll be the AD at Alcorn State. I understand his need to become more comfortable with Frank's methodology before going nuts OR getting the fan base so riled up that he had no choice, so he has a bit of a scapegoat.
The "leak" didn't come from Currie's side.
Did JMart PM you who it came from? Let me in - even assuming that's so, it's conceivable that Frank actually understands Currie's position. I mean, I don't necessarily believe there is an adversarial relationship there. I think they both understand the dynamics of getting a coach like Frank whose career has skyrocketed in the context of unbelievable recruiting classes, fiscal disorder, a new AD hired under the backdrop of a corrupt former AD, etc. The risky thing here is that there are plenty of schools desparate enough to take chances on Frank, that we may be averse to.
I TOTALLY agree we need to pay Frank - I just don't think a lot of people are taking into account all the dynamics that go into it.
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20,000 fans donating $5/month is $1.2M. If ksu sets up some sort of billpay or automatic payment, surely we could get this done, right?
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Dear Mr. Currie,
I have been a Frank Martin fan from day one. He has represented this school with nothing but class and elevated the program to old heights that seems new. I am discouraged to read from several media outlets I trust that you are hesitant to pay him a salary he has earned with constant success. My opinion is that this program and your tenure as AD will collapse if this is not handle quickly and correctly. Get the man a hefty raise comparable to other Big 12 schools. He deserves it. It will be much tougher to make the decision to donate and purchase season tickets next year if I'm making the 3 hour drive from Omaha to watch Tim Jankovich sink us back into the bottom half of the Big 12. Please make the right decision. I know you are new to the Wildcat family, but basketball is important to us.
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Frank Martin himself is just as important as the success at this point in time, imo.
J-Mart, thanks for the info, but why today?
Because it's absurd that something hadn't been worked out already, and after last night, it's literally laughable. You talk about ambassadors of programs? Frank Martin IS K-State. No reason not to lock the man up long-term.
Glad to see we are on the same page here.
Would it be possible for you to moonlight as the K-State beat writer?
-
e-mail sent
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Um, if I'm the best connected guy you're talking about, much respect. But I have to quibble with your second point on Martin. I never said he had one foot out the door. You can infer that, and I'd be fine with that, but those words never came out of my mouth.
it's an inference. i'm really good at reading between the lines.
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Because it's absurd that something hadn't been worked out already, and after last night, it's literally laughable. You talk about ambassadors of programs? Frank Martin IS K-State. No reason not to lock the man up long-term.
You are such a liar when you say you are not emaw.
-
The last time we relied on the fact that we took a risk and provided a coach with a great opportunity to get (back) into a head coach spot it turned out pretty well, so we should probably do that again. Then when Frank's on the plane to sunnier climes we can all whine about how loyalty means nothing.
What's okay: reminding a coach that you gave him his big break to try to get him to stay when you're paying him market value.
What's not okay: reminding a coach that you gave him his big break as an excuse to underpay him, after he's given every indication that he's building a program beyond your expectations when you first hired him. This is an insult, and this is the type of thing that could cause a coach who is otherwise willing to make a long-term committment to seriously consider greener pastures.
What's weird about this is that just this morning I started thinking about Frank's extension and had this little nagging fear arise that maybe Currie isn't as concerned about keeping Frank as most Pakers are. Then I came on here and read J-Mart's post.
We've seen plenty of examples of a successful coach who is driven out by an administration who doesn't like him or an administration who hasn't hired him. While I'm not saying Frank has the same issues as these coaches, it would also be foolish to not acknowledge that these coaches are frequently known for their temper. Currie did not hire Frank, and Currie could well be the type of AD who is leery of committing to a coach who is recognized for his emotional displays. Or Currie could be the type of AD who can't wait to get his own guy in there ASAP ($weet Lew). Do I think Frank is going to cross the line and do something on the level of a Mangino or a Bobby Knight? No, and I think any reluctance to give Frank an extension on such grounds would be patently absurd. But maybe Currie feels differently. And if he does, that's going to be bad news for K-State basketball.
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I wish I could say this development is shocking to me but as sclams' said to a varying degree, 'it's been going on for 20 years'. :runaway: (ftp://:runaway:) I can't say that I'd turn my back on this &@#%ing school if they screw this one up but I'll be close to this as it comes.. :suicideispainless: (ftp://:suicideispainless:)
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I love the whole "frank's a loyal guy". yeah, know sh*t, but loyalty works both ways.
"hey, you wanna be loyal to us? great, okay, we'll pay you 200K more and then after next year when you lose pullen, sutton, kelly, and maybe jamar and have a so/so year, we'll put you on the hotseat. sound good? what? no, well, we don't have money. I mean, we have money for football, baseball, and women's basketball, just not for you. Okay, anyway, so you just sign right here. Thanks for being loyal frank. here's a hot dog."
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I've been a fan of sh*tty KSU basketball before, I can do it again.
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I love the whole "frank's a loyal guy". yeah, know sh*t, but loyalty works both ways.
"hey, you wanna be loyal to us? great, okay, we'll pay you 200K more and then after next year when you lose pullen, sutton, kelly, and maybe jamar and have a so/so year, we'll put you on the hotseat. sound good? what? no, well, we don't have money. I mean, we have money for football, baseball, and women's basketball, just not for you. Okay, anyway, so you just sign right here. Thanks for being loyal frank. here's a hot dog.Bram dog"
fyp
Shouldn't the "Bram dog" be renamed the "DOOM dog" soon?
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Wow, Jmart comes out and says basically what I've been saying for the last two seasons. yes! :woohoo:
:jerkoff:
tapout noted. Hilarious you would disagree.
sys summed up my position perfectly, tard. You haven't given ANY real information.
Here are some facts.
1. Other schools have pledged more money than we have. Schools not in this conference.
2. Currie is hesitant to pay Frank a salary that is in the upper half of this league yet.
3. The Vaniers know what is at stake.
That's all I can say and that is pretty much in line with what JMart is trying to assert in this thread. He is a legend.
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I've been a fan of sh*tty KSU basketball before, I can do it again.
Why accept that?
You were a fan of sh*tty KSU basketball because of the hope of where the program is now. So you are here but wouldn't mind going back to the days of dreaming?
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I love the whole "frank's a loyal guy". yeah, know sh*t, but loyalty works both ways.
"hey, you wanna be loyal to us? great, okay, we'll pay you 200K more and then after next year when you lose pullen, sutton, kelly, and maybe jamar and have a so/so year, we'll put you on the hotseat. sound good? what? no, well, we don't have money. I mean, we have money for football, baseball, and women's basketball, just not for you. Okay, anyway, so you just sign right here. Thanks for being loyal frank. here's a hot dog."
why does currie hate us so much? :frown:
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I love it. J-Mart has done more inside reporting in the last twenty-four hours then Kellis has done in the past four months.
And if John messes this up, then god have mercy on his soul. :mad:
E-Mails & calls were made.....don't worry. :curse:
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This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.
In the mean while, let's enjoy what we have going and hope it lasts.
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It's not Currie's name that is on the check to hand to Frank and his staff. I hope that is common knowledge. Maybe not on GPC...but it should be around here.
Its going to come down to the big donors coming up with the loot to have a big time program...or we'll be back to sucking. That simple.
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This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.
In the mean while, let's enjoy what we have going and hope it lasts.
uhhhh, no. and f^ck you while we're at it. you and people that think like this are part of the problem.
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Frank and Co are just about total goners, IMHO. It might be another year or two before Indiana or UCLA can scrape together $3M to take him, but it will happen. In the meantime, doubling his salary would be a nice gesture to at least make him consider being loyal to K-State. Structure it with a huge buyout and give him a 5+ year deal.
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1. Other schools have pledged more money than we have. Schools not in this conference.
Already clowned this BS.
2. Currie is hesitant to pay Frank a salary that is in the upper half of this league yet.
You've neve posted this.
3. The Vaniers know what is at stake.
You've never posted this.
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I've been a fan of sh*tty KSU basketball before, I can do it again.
Why accept that?
You were a fan of sh*tty KSU basketball because of the hope of where the program is now. So you are here but wouldn't mind going back to the days of dreaming?
I accept it because I don't have millions of dollars and therefore can't do anything but accept it. :blank:
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I've been a fan of sh*tty KSU basketball before, I can do it again.
This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.
In the mean while, let's enjoy what we have going and hope it lasts.
uhhhh, no. and f^ck you while we're at it. you and people that think like this are part of the problem.
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Frank and Co are just about total goners, IMHO. It might be another year or two before Indiana or UCLA can scrape together $3M to take him, but it will happen. In the meantime, doubling his salary would be a nice gesture to at least make him consider being loyal to K-State. Structure it with a huge buyout and give him a 5+ year deal.
I'd be happy with this and two more seasons and then Frank moving on...but I'm talking about Frank and staff bolting after this year and leaving us with zilch. Judge, McGruder, Russell, Irving, JHR would all probably look to transfer.
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A couple other points ...
1. I've been led to believe the practice facility is as important as the money. Bottom line, Frank wants to know K-State is willing to commit to basketball.
2. K-State looks silly for announcing a contract extension for Patterson while waffling on Frank. It's more the principle than the money.
3. Frank holds all the cards in this negotiation. The longer it goes on, the more his value goes up. I'm sure he knows that.
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A couple other points ...
1. I've been led to believe the practice facility is as important as the money. Bottom line, Frank wants to know K-State is willing to commit to basketball.
2. K-State looks silly for announcing a contract extension for Patterson while waffling on Frank. It's more the principle than the money.
3. Frank holds all the cards in this negotiation. The longer it goes on, the more his value goes up. I'm sure he knows that.
thank you for bringing up the point about Deb Patterson's contract. She got everything she wanted didn't she?
Meanwhile we're stalling on Frank. Unbelievable.
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if nothing else, its good to just get this out in the open rather than be left wondering if/when frank leaves and feeling like we couldnt do anything. I'm holding out hope here--but let there be no doubt my family's season tix are certainly in the balance.
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commanding email sent. will keep it up until I hear back. :curse: :frown:
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This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.
Ummm, no. But thanks for demonstrating why KSU's College of Business Administration isn't exactly known for turning out high powered alumni.
As Meek pointed out below: the longer this goes on the stronger Frank's position is likely to become. The man could go 7-5 the rest of the way, win one each in the Big XII Tourney and NCAAs and easily double his salary at any major that happens to be in the market for a winning hoops program. He has already proven himself as a recruiter and a coach, anything else he does this season is just gravy from his agent's perspective. The only way that dynamic changes is if: a) the team completely implodes; and/or b) Martin punches a player in the face during a televised game. Otherwise Currie's delay is merely compounding KSU's financial problems because Martin's leverage is getting stronger by the second.
Typically "classic negotiating" involves a strategy for putting oneself in a better, rather than worse, situation through the application of superior information or skill (hint: this can be characterized by the leverage in the negotiations becoming relatively stronger for your side rather than the other side as is the case here). KSU wins only if Martin becomes toxic but not so toxic as to preclude his retention. That's not skill or superior information, that's praying for a miracle.
Pay the man Currie. And do it right fracking now.
EDIT: KSU might also want to keep in mind the fact that if Martin beats ku on the 30th we might not be able to afford him.
In fairness to the earlier poster this is a classic strategy, a classic KSU Athletic Department strategy: load weapon, aim at foot, pull trigger, repeat as necessary.
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This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.
Ummm, no. But thanks for demonstrating why KSU's College of Business Administration isn't exactly known for turning out high powered alumni.
As Meek pointed out below: the longer this goes on the stronger Frank's position is likely to become. The man could go 7-5 the rest of the way, win one each in the Big XII Tourney and NCAAs and easily double his salary at any major that happens to be in the market for a winning hoops program. He has already proven himself as a recruiter and a coach, anything else he does this season is just gravy from his agent's perspective. The only way that dynamic changes is if: a) the team completely implodes; and/or b) Martin punches a player in the face during a televised game. Otherwise Currie's delay is merely compounding KSU's financial problems because Martin's leverage is getting stronger by the second.
Typically "classic negotiating" involves a strategy for putting oneself in a better, rather than worse, situation through the application of superior information or skill (hint: this can be characterized by the leverage in the negotiations becoming relatively stronger for your side rather than the other side as is the case here). KSU wins only if Martin becomes toxic but not so toxic as to preclude his retention. That's not skill or superior information, that's praying for a miracle.
Pay the man Currie. And do it right fracking now.
Good stuff. Welcome to the board Mr. AzCat.
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Here you go. This is the best I have been able to compile, some of this information is over a year old, as Mike Anderson was given a raise last year and he's closer to the $2 million mark. Feel free to correct any of this.
Bottom line, for a coach that won 20+ and has finished in the top 4 in this league each of the last three years, and will have us in the Dance two of his first three seasons, he should be making top 4 money. Period. End of story. It is a travesty that clowns like Travis Ford and Mark Turgeon receive this sort of compensation and Frank doesn't.
1. Self: $3 million
2. Rick Barnes - $2 million
3. Mike Anderson - $1.3 million
4. Travis Ford - $1.3 million
5. Mark Turgeon - $1.2 million
6. Jeff Caple - $1.05 million
7. Pat Knight - Big XII median salary
8. Jeff Bzdelik - $800,000
9. Doc Sadler - $800,000
10. Frank Martin - $760,000
11. Greg McDermott - $650,000
12. Scott Drew - $600,000
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$760k is not bad for a HS coach who runs a terrible offense, amirite?
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This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.
Ummm, no. But thanks for demonstrating why KSU's College of Business Administration isn't exactly known for turning out high powered alumni.
As Meek pointed out below: the longer this goes on the stronger Frank's position is likely to become. The man could go 7-5 the rest of the way, win one each in the Big XII Tourney and NCAAs and easily double his salary at any major that happens to be in the market for a winning hoops program. He has already proven himself as a recruiter and a coach, anything else he does this season is just gravy from his agent's perspective. The only way that dynamic changes is if: a) the team completely implodes; and/or b) Martin punches a player in the face during a televised game. Otherwise Currie's delay is merely compounding KSU's financial problems because Martin's leverage is getting stronger by the second.
Typically "classic negotiating" involves a strategy for putting oneself in a better, rather than worse, situation through the application of superior information or skill (hint: this can be characterized by the leverage in the negotiations becoming relatively stronger for your side rather than the other side as is the case here). KSU wins only if Martin becomes toxic but not so toxic as to preclude his retention. That's not skill or superior information, that's praying for a miracle.
Pay the man Currie. And do it right fracking now.
I agree with this guy ^
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Frank should be paid more than Turd, no doubt in my mind.
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New GPC talking point: Frank after Texas win = Prince after Texas win
I honestly think those dumbf^cks want us to suck at basketball.
:frown:
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New GPC talking point: Frank after Texas win = Prince after Texas win
I honestly think those dumbf^cks want us to suck at basketball.
:frown:
WELL, IF I HAD TO CHOOSE I'D CHOOSE BEING GOOD AT FOOTBALL. ISWT
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New GPC talking point: Frank after Texas win = Prince after Texas win
I honestly think those dumbf^cks want us to suck at basketball.
:frown:
:hahano: :blindfold:
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This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.
In the mean while, let's enjoy what we have going and hope it lasts.
uhhhh, no. and f^ck you while we're at it. you and people that think like this are part of the problem.
I hope you feel better now. If you want to blame me and curse me, then go ahead, I've heard worse. Just realize we're on the same side.
Its obvious Frank's contract should have been renewed by now. If you need to yell and curse at someone, I would encourage you to find a way to direct it at the people who are providing the financing.
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This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.
Ummm, no. But thanks for demonstrating why KSU's College of Business Administration isn't exactly known for turning out high powered alumni.
As Meek pointed out below: the longer this goes on the stronger Frank's position is likely to become. The man could go 7-5 the rest of the way, win one each in the Big XII Tourney and NCAAs and easily double his salary at any major that happens to be in the market for a winning hoops program. He has already proven himself as a recruiter and a coach, anything else he does this season is just gravy from his agent's perspective. The only way that dynamic changes is if: a) the team completely implodes; and/or b) Martin punches a player in the face during a televised game. Otherwise Currie's delay is merely compounding KSU's financial problems because Martin's leverage is getting stronger by the second.
Typically "classic negotiating" involves a strategy for putting oneself in a better, rather than worse, situation through the application of superior information or skill (hint: this can be characterized by the leverage in the negotiations becoming relatively stronger for your side rather than the other side as is the case here). KSU wins only if Martin becomes toxic but not so toxic as to preclude his retention. That's not skill or superior information, that's praying for a miracle.
Pay the man Currie. And do it right fracking now.
EDIT: KSU might also want to keep in mind the fact that if Martin beats ku on the 30th we might not be able to afford him.
In fairness to the earlier poster this is a classic strategy, a classic KSU Athletic Department strategy: load weapon, aim at foot, pull trigger, repeat as necessary.
I am talking about the negotiation from Martin's point of view. Don't you find it odd our former beat writer pulled us into this conversation today?
So, let me BLUNT. Take notes on how Martin is owning this negotiation. That is what's classic here.
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I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.
There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.
It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?
The man deserves a raise.
have not read anything else other than this post.
I applaud Curry this is how actual AD's do it. Where the hell else is Frank going to go unless something opens up on the East Coast he's not going to get a bigger program type job this early in his career he will either make more money and to a lateral program. Or curry and Co. will meet in the middle. This is how its done not just throwing money and incentives right away.
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Can someone email Garth and make sure this angry gets heard?
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Too much :runaway: in this thread for my taste.
It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).
So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.
IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing. Checks do.
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I am talking about the negotiation from Martin's point of view. Don't you find it odd our former beat writer pulled us into this conversation today?
So, let me BLUNT. Take notes on how Martin is owning this negotiation. That is what's classic here.
I understood what you were saying (and what's happening here). Everyone wins IF the AD gets more money coming in as a result, though...
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you don't need to email Garth a thing, he knows full well that Frank needs to be paid he isn't willing to just trust Currie like the tards, he has more at stake than most, that man has spent a lot of money on KSU Basketball.
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Too much :runaway: in this thread for my taste.
It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).
So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.
IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing. Checks do.
Honestly, I agree w/ everything, except I think he's probably worth about $1.5M at this point.
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Too much :runaway: in this thread for my taste.
It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).
So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.
IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing. Checks do.
So you're saying that this summer when Currie took the job and promptly handed out cash to Snyder and Patterson, Frank Martin still deserved to be 10th in the conference in coaching salaries?
Surely you jest, if not GTFOOMF football fan!
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So you're saying that this summer when Currie took the job and promptly handed out cash to Snyder and Patterson, Frank Martin still deserved to be 10th in the conference in coaching salaries?
Surely you jest, if not GTFOOMF football fan!
Snyder and Patterson had real track records (although I hate the snyder contract). Frank did not.
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So you're saying that this summer when Currie took the job and promptly handed out cash to Snyder and Patterson, Frank Martin still deserved to be 10th in the conference in coaching salaries?
Surely you jest, if not GTFOOMF football fan!
Snyder and Patterson had real track records (although I hate the snyder contract). Frank did not.
Snyder had not been to a bowl game in 6 years. He should get credit for something he did when the current athletes were in junior high? Patterson did not need the deal, she isn't going anywhere. Frankly OB didn't need it either.
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A couple other points ...
1. I've been led to believe the practice facility is as important as the money. Bottom line, Frank wants to know K-State is willing to commit to basketball.
2. K-State looks silly for announcing a contract extension for Patterson while waffling on Frank. It's more the principle than the money.
3. Frank holds all the cards in this negotiation. The longer it goes on, the more his value goes up. I'm sure he knows that.
I've seen the plans on the practice facility. The way I understood it I thought they would be announcing it was moving forward sometime after the first of the year. Anyway, it appeared they would be adding 2 courts to the east side of the octogon.
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Too much :runaway: in this thread for my taste.
It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).
So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.
IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing. Checks do.
this talking point is complete and utter bullsh*t. currie's f'ing job and/or what he's responsible for is getting people to donate money. he's got a staff assigned to do so. it's their f'ing jobs. the cost not to find a way to keep Frank (along with all the momentum he's created) is more than paying him what he's worth. we gave the goddamn dyke and grandpa a f'ing contract extension/raise. what kind of f'ing planning was that on currie's part? currie better hope to christ that he and his staff can get boosters and/or find the money or it is his f'ing ass. the basketball program will collapse because we'll be able to afford a 760K coach...and looking at the salaries, that's a doc sadler or jeff bezdaflkerak or greg mcdermott type coach.
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and I ask because i don't know, but where does $760K rank nationally? Big 12 salaries get skewed by ku, UT and OU IMHO.
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Ask Bill to take a substantial paycut. Dude is probably so senile he won't even realize it's gone. Use that money to pay Frank. Everyone is happy.
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Too much :runaway: in this thread for my taste.
It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).
So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.
IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing. Checks do.
Honestly, I agree w/ everything, except I think he's probably worth about $1.5M at this point.
both of you are 'tards if you believe that. it was obvious to smart people (mostly me, might have included rusty if he hadn't just tarded out in his above quote) that martin was a good coach after his first year. it was even more obvious when he signed a good class the following november. it was hitting tards in the face after his second year.
any of those opportunities would have been good times to offer a raise. it would have cost less over the entire span of the contract to up for huge long-term contract last year (or two years ago) than it will after this season. and it would have generated goodwill and loyalty rather than resentment.
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pay Frank, love Frank
p.s. in your sig line it appears that there was a large spike in gov spending in the 40's why was that. Was that an attempt to rescue the country from a devastating economic recession?
JFC, try WW2. WTF are you kids learning in school these days?
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(785) 532-6912
[email protected]
Flood his inbox.
this is a demand by EMAW nation, not a request!
like he gives a crap about emails from the poor fans. its the money genius. it's the only thing that talks in America
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Kinda curious about one thing here. Aren't the majority of these other coach's salaries paid by private donations? I know it generally works that way with football contracts. (Ex- Mangino's raise) There's no way in hell that the board of regents is going to okay a pay raise right now, considering the sizable deficit the state is dealing with. Seems like a group of boosters would need to decide to pony up the extra dough here. Now, Currie should definitely be trying to get this ball rolling but I don't think the money will ultimately come from the school's coffers. Maybe I'm totally wrong here. :dunno:
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both of you are 'tards if you believe that. it was obvious to smart people (mostly me, might have included rusty if he hadn't just tarded out in his above quote) that martin was a good coach after his first year. it was even more obvious when he signed a good class the following november. it was hitting tards in the face after his second year.
it was obvious after his first year he knew how to coach, but hardly obvious he knew how to recruit a team.
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Ask Bill to take a substantial paycut. Dude is probably so senile he won't even realize it's gone. Use that money to pay Frank. Everyone is happy.
:bballonlyfan:
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Too much :runaway: in this thread for my taste.
It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).
So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.
IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing. Checks do.
Honestly, I agree w/ everything, except I think he's probably worth about $1.5M at this point.
both of you are 'tards if you believe that. it was obvious to smart people (mostly me, might have included rusty if he hadn't just tarded out in his above quote) that martin was a good coach after his first year. it was even more obvious when he signed a good class the following november. it was hitting tards in the face after his second year.
any of those opportunities would have been good times to offer a raise. it would have cost less over the entire span of the contract to up for huge long-term contract last year (or two years ago) than it will after this season. and it would have generated goodwill and loyalty rather than resentment.
qft. We needed to do this at the end of last season. Hard for Currie to as the new guy so I get that. But if he isn't pending 80%+ of his day getting money for Frank's new contract and practice facility he should start packing.
I also agree that it will take major donors to get this done, but if peons revolt it historically forces the hands of the people in charge. We need to make enough noise to get things done. I'll march in the parade.
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Yeah can't believe Currie hasn't walked in and locked Frank down at $2 millon a year on a long term guranteed contract. What . . . with Frank's 1 NCAA tourney win and 1 NIT win to date . . . guy deserves at least $2 million a year . . . he's going to be on Jim Rome for fu_k sake.
Just when I thought ksu fans couldn't get anymore retarded.
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Too much :runaway: in this thread for my taste.
It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).
So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.
IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing. Checks do.
Honestly, I agree w/ everything, except I think he's probably worth about $1.5M at this point.
both of you are 'tards if you believe that. it was obvious to smart people (mostly me, might have included rusty if he hadn't just tarded out in his above quote) that martin was a good coach after his first year. it was even more obvious when he signed a good class the following november. it was hitting tards in the face after his second year.
any of those opportunities would have been good times to offer a raise. it would have cost less over the entire span of the contract to up for huge long-term contract last year (or two years ago) than it will after this season. and it would have generated goodwill and loyalty rather than resentment.
His 2008 class was a LOL clusterf*ck, and the DC Assault ties (where he got everyone in his "good" class that was good) were shaky before last season was over. No program in their right mind would have tried to steal him away, and he deserved the 900k offer he got at that point. He deserves almost double that now.
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Just looked it up . . . last year K-State men's basketball was near the bottom of the Big 12 in total revenue. So far NU, ISU, MU, ku (obviously) made more money on men's hoops than K-State did in FY 2009.
Based on my extensive historical knowledge, I predict that K-State's men's revenue will be up about $800K to $1 million this year, double that if K-State make's a nice NCAA tourney run. That still puts K-State about in the middle of the Big 12, and still well behind conference men's basketball revenue leaders.
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Is that including a bump in ticket prices?
And no one is saying he should make 2 million a year.
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Ask Bill to take a substantial paycut. Dude is probably so senile he won't even realize it's gone. Use that money to pay Frank. Everyone is happy.
The gravy train 5 year contract for Snyder is borderline criminal. And I don't want to hear another tard question as to whether the money exists or not.
$9.575 million over the course of the contract.
$1.875 million in 2010-11, $1.925 million in 2011-12, $1.95 million in 2012-13 and $1.975 million in 2013-14.
Absurd.
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Ask Bill to take a substantial paycut. Dude is probably so senile he won't even realize it's gone. Use that money to pay Frank. Everyone is happy.
The gravy train 5 year contract for Snyder is borderline criminal. And I don't want to hear another tard question as to whether the money exists or not.
$9.575 million over the course of the contract.
$1.875 million in 2010-11, $1.925 million in 2011-12, $1.95 million in 2012-13 and $1.975 million in 2013-14.
Absurd.
THIS
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Yeah can't believe Currie hasn't walked in and locked Frank down at $2 millon a year on a long term guranteed contract. What . . . with Frank's 1 NCAA tourney win and 1 NIT win to date . . . guy deserves at least $2 million a year . . . he's going to be on Jim Rome for fu_k sake.
Just when I thought ksu fans couldn't get anymore retarded.
sometimes it's like you invent the opposing side of your argument just to post something. no one...NO ONE...is saying 2million a year. Most are saying 1.2-1.5 which would put him in the top 4....a place he's finished and will likely finish all 3 years.
you're the same jackass that was up in arms about weiser not being proactive enough about huggins. christ almighty dax.
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Yeah can't believe Currie hasn't walked in and locked Frank down at $2 millon a year on a long term guranteed contract. What . . . with Frank's 1 NCAA tourney win and 1 NIT win to date . . . guy deserves at least $2 million a year . . . he's going to be on Jim Rome for fu_k sake.
Just when I thought ksu fans couldn't get anymore retarded.
JFC, it's an entire army of strawmen :eek:
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Ask Bill to take a substantial paycut. Dude is probably so senile he won't even realize it's gone. Use that money to pay Frank. Everyone is happy.
The gravy train 5 year contract for Snyder is borderline criminal. And I don't want to hear another tard question as to whether the money exists or not.
$9.575 million over the course of the contract.
$1.875 million in 2010-11, $1.925 million in 2011-12, $1.95 million in 2012-13 and $1.975 million in 2013-14.
Absurd.
This is what we are paying a non-recruiting old f^cker who hasn't been to a bowl in any of his last three seasons coaching. Soak it in people.
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i really don't think anything is going to get done before the end of the season. if i'm frank, i have no reason to negotiate anything at this point. every game that goes by increases his value in the market.
having said that, frank has always been one to look out for his assistants. how much is it going to take to retain them, including greenawalt, and make everyone happy? we still need 'Te400k if he's willing to stick around a couple more seasons although has martin done enough to solidify himself w/ DCA on his own?
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Ask Bill to take a substantial paycut. Dude is probably so senile he won't even realize it's gone. Use that money to pay Frank. Everyone is happy.
The gravy train 5 year contract for Snyder is borderline criminal. And I don't want to hear another tard question as to whether the money exists or not.
$9.575 million over the course of the contract.
$1.875 million in 2010-11, $1.925 million in 2011-12, $1.95 million in 2012-13 and $1.975 million in 2013-14.
Absurd.
This is what we are paying a non-recruiting old f^cker who hasn't been to a bowl in any of his last three seasons coaching. Soak it in people.
:yuck:
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My response from my email to Currie:
Dave,
Thanks so much for your note!
I totally agree with you on Frank. He's a doing a great job and is a great fit for K-State. While we maintain our commitment to fiscal integrity we need to do what it takes to take care of him and his family and continue to give him the resources to build the program.
Again, thanks for your note. Go Cats!
John
Typical response. Not like I was expecting "Holy crap Dave! You're right! Glad you emailed!"
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The clues have been signaled...
We must hire Colon to be his body guard.
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Yesterday is just further proof that J-Mart and Kietz are absolute pros. And J-Mart doesn't even cover K-State anymore. Excellent work.
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DeCourcy just made us look like a bunch of tight ass retards on 810. JFC. They need to get a deal done this month, or he's gone.
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a bunch of tight ass retards
Pretty well sums up 99% of the KSU fan base.
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While we maintain our commitment to fiscal integrity
fiscal integrity= making an undeserved pledge to our struggling football staff
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Yesterday is just further proof that J-Mart and Kietz are absolute pros. And J-Mart doesn't even cover K-State anymore. Excellent work.
This cannot be emphasized enough. The elite katpak'r roady tix will flow like water into eternity.
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http://www.kansascity.com/182/story/1695275.html
Jason Whitlock agrees that KSU needs to lock down FM. I don't agree with all he says but he makes some good points. Worth a read.
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My response from my email to Currie:
Dave,
Thanks so much for your note!
I totally agree with you on Frank. He's a doing a great job and is a great fit for K-State. While we maintain our commitment to fiscal integrity we need to do what it takes to take care of him and his family and continue to give him the resources to build the program.
Again, thanks for your note. Go Cats!
John
Typical response. Not like I was expecting "Holy crap Dave! You're right! Glad you emailed!"
Thanks for your note and support of the Cats.
I totally agree with you on Frank. He's a doing a great job and is a great fit for K-State. While we maintain our commitment to fiscal integrity we need to work hard to do what it takes to take care of him and his staff and continue to give him the resources to build the program.
As you may know we relaunched The Ahearn Fund this year in an attempt to better spread the word about the true mission of the organization. In addition to covering the cost of scholarships and student-athlete welfare, the Ahearn Fund is truly the margin of excellence for K-State athletics. When our fans choose to be Ahearn Fund members they are helping to provide the financial flexibility to make the commitments necessary to ensure coaching continuity in all our sports.
Again, thanks for your note. Go Cats!
John
-----------------------------
thats what I got. I said in my email I most certainly would donate if we lock Martin up, in addition to holding on to me and my family's 4 season tickets.
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Yesterday is just further proof that J-Mart and Kietz are absolute pros. And J-Mart doesn't even cover K-State anymore. Excellent work.
This cannot be emphasized enough. The elite katpak'r roady tix will flow like water into eternity.
Be advised, when Frank leaves us and we SLTH it up, J-Mart will be gone as well, focusing on programs superior to what ours will become, like Rice and Houston.
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My response from my email to Currie:
Dave,
Thanks so much for your note!
I totally agree with you on Frank. He's a doing a great job and is a great fit for K-State. While we maintain our commitment to fiscal integrity we need to do what it takes to take care of him and his family and continue to give him the resources to build the program.
Again, thanks for your note. Go Cats!
John
Typical response. Not like I was expecting "Holy crap Dave! You're right! Glad you emailed!"
Damn, that would have been a top notch response.
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Some student senators drafted a resolution last night to encourage the administration to give an extension/raise to Frank Martin.
It will provide interest. This will provide more encouragement to PresKS*
*who btw, didn't make it until the very end to the game
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i really don't think anything is going to get done before the end of the season. if i'm frank, i have no reason to negotiate anything at this point. every game that goes by increases his value in the market.
having said that, frank has always been one to look out for his assistants. how much is it going to take to retain them, including greenawalt, and make everyone happy? we still need 'Te400k if he's willing to stick around a couple more seasons although has martin done enough to solidify himself w/ DCA on his own?
This is very, very accurate. Smart guy.
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Maybe this is a bit 'tardish, but I do believe Martin is loyal. I do think he's similar to Huggins (who apparently turned down more money/better jobs because he felt like he was appreciated at Cincy, not necessarily absurdly paid, but appreciated). So what pisses me off is how, as an AD, you don't recognize that and pay him a worthy salary....to start with. Because if it's true that Currie lowballed his ass (and save me the "that's how negotiations work bullsh*t, that's not what a good negotiator does). 1.2m is not unreasonable and I would think that it would tell frank that he's appreciated. And if as the AD you're concerned about the short term, then stagger or back load the contract to put a larger salary on year 3 of the new deal/extension to make up for the first two years.
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Another option is to give a decent guaranteed salary of ~$1M, but make the incentives much higher than average. So if he gets to the elite 8, he ends up with $1.5M instead of giving him $1.2 with a 100K bonus for the elite 8. Up to $2M for a NC (or even more). Make the ceiling higher, but the base lower. That way, the year(s) he does well, he gets well compensated and the AD gets nice donations. On years he doesn't, the donations will fall a bit, but not hurt the AD.
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Just like everyone, he'd rather have guaranteed money...except for Ricky Williams.
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Some student senators drafted a resolution last night to encourage the administration to give an extension/raise to Frank Martin.
It will provide interest. This will provide more encouragement to PresKS*
*who btw, didn't make it until the very end to the game
Plane got delayed, his flight didnt get into KC until 6:30
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Just like everyone, he'd rather have guaranteed money...except for Ricky Williams.
Well sure, but that would still be a quarter million raise (could be more even), but also show that we're not afraid to pay. It gives him a respectable salary, even if not super high, but gives him the opportunity to make substantially more. I'm sure it would insult him less than the $850K or whatever that he got offered.
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I wonder where frank will go. Arkansas will probably make a run at Anderson, but I'd think that they'd then look at Frank if/when Anderson says no.
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My powertardy suggestion/email and his response in reverse chronological order.
KITN,
Thanks for your note and offer of support. I am contacting Chad Weiberg to his staff can follow upw with regarding the Ahearn Fund. We do indeed offer the opportunity to make monthy automatic donations in increments.
The strength of K-State is broad based support and we appreciate each and every donor.
gain- thanks for your note and Go Cats!
John
From: KITN
To: John Currie
Sent: Tue Jan 19 13:52:41 2010
Subject: Fund Raising
Hello Mr. Currie,
My name is KITNfury and am a fairly recent graduate of KSU. I know that there has been some attention given to Frank Martin’s contract from our fan base, which may actually keep you from receiving this email. But if you have the time, I’d appreciate it if you could keep reading.
Instead of me demanding that you give Frank a raise (although I do hope something can be worked out for one of the top coaches in the conference), I’m writing you this instead as a suggestion to help raise the monies needed for this and other athletic endeavors for KSU. Regardless of a person’s pay scale, writing a single check per year for the amount that can be afforded brings apprehension to the donor. Look no further than no interest financing offered by a multitude of businesses from Home Depot to Nebraska Furniture Mart. They know that people could probably just buy that couch or window, but it sure makes them feel better about to pay in “low monthly installments”. This brings me to my suggestion….
Assume you think Frank Martin is worth $1.3M/year. That’s a lot of scratch to ask from large donors that are already donating. It’s also a ton of cash to ask from people that can’t write huge checks. Why not start a system of automatic payments from alumni bank accounts for a small amount? If you could get even half the crowd from a football game to donate a measly $5/month, you’ve got yourself an extra $1.5M/year. Who can’t afford $5 to $10 per month?
Once a person signs up, they’ll be much less likely to cancel because it’s easy, out of site out of mind, and makes no difference in their day to day lifestyle. Now, most wouldn’t consider a $60 or $120 check to break them, but $120 is enough to take a small family out to dinner and a movie. At that point, you have a man or woman considering what they are sacrificing in order to support KSU. That is not what you want. Just a thought.
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Another option is to give a decent guaranteed salary of ~$1M, but make the incentives much higher than average. So if he gets to the elite 8, he ends up with $1.5M instead of giving him $1.2 with a 100K bonus for the elite 8. Up to $2M for a NC (or even more). Make the ceiling higher, but the base lower. That way, the year(s) he does well, he gets well compensated and the AD gets nice donations. On years he doesn't, the donations will fall a bit, but not hurt the AD.
these type of things make far too much sense for any level of sports these days
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an aside to all of this, this story really has national attention now with what decourcey was saying this morning and it all originated here. its too bad ksufans.com (and Jmart)didn't get attached to any of it.
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an aside to all of this, this story really has national attention now with what decourcey was saying this morning and it all originated here. its too bad ksufans.com (and Jmart)didn't get attached to any of it.
this could either be really good, or really bad. i'm thinking really bad.
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Shoud set up a bunch of these-
Text FRANK to 90999 to send $10 to Frank
Text TAPE to 90999 to send $10 towards a new Jock Jams tape
Text ZZZZ to send 10 pesos to mj to keep his site up
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an aside to all of this, this story really has national attention now with what decourcey was saying this morning and it all originated here. its too bad ksufans.com (and Jmart)didn't get attached to any of it.
Why should ksufans.com get attached to it? TP and Mj's lazy asses didn't do any reporting. J-mart just randomly graced us with his presence and dropped a dime on us. How that relates at all to the morons running this crash dummy bbs is hard to figure.
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His 2008 class was a LOL clusterf*ck, and the DC Assault ties (where he got everyone in his "good" class that was good) were shaky before last season was over. No program in their right mind would have tried to steal him away, and he deserved the 900k offer he got at that point. He deserves almost double that now.
they'd recruited clemente, samuels, and kelly, post huggins and pre 2009 class. with pullen and sutton, those players are the core of a top 10 team.
and you're right, he "deserved" 900k after last year. which is why it would have been really smart to lock him up long-term at 1 mill with stepped yearly raises.
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i really don't think anything is going to get done before the end of the season. if i'm frank, i have no reason to negotiate anything at this point. every game that goes by increases his value in the market.
having said that, frank has always been one to look out for his assistants. how much is it going to take to retain them, including greenawalt, and make everyone happy? we still need 'Te400k if he's willing to stick around a couple more seasons although has martin done enough to solidify himself w/ DCA on his own?
This is very, very accurate. Smart guy.
Umm there is a big diff in inking someone at the end of the year and lowballing the coach that's given you the most success in the last 20 years that has no reason to not be completely offended when your lame duck worthless football coach is making some serious jack
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an aside to all of this, this story really has national attention now with what decourcey was saying this morning and it all originated here. its too bad ksufans.com (and Jmart)didn't get attached to any of it.
i heard decourcey on my way into work and was kind of upset that he didn't reference this site specifically, so i emailed him about it. just got his response.
rick,
I appreciate and understand your concern. If you remember, I was one of the few people in the media who was completely behind the Frank Martin hire from the beginning. As to the question on why i did not reference KsuFans.com when talking to Nate and Steven this morning, i will simply say that i tried to access that website throughout the day and evening yesterday but was unable to. Thanks again for your input and for listening to me this morning on The Boarder Patrol.
-Mike D
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My powertardy suggestion/email and his response in reverse chronological order.
KITN,
Thanks for your note and offer of support. I am contacting Chad Weiberg to his staff can follow upw with regarding the Ahearn Fund. We do indeed offer the opportunity to make monthy automatic donations in increments.
The strength of K-State is broad based support and we appreciate each and every donor.
gain- thanks for your note and Go Cats!
John
From: KITN
To: John Currie
Sent: Tue Jan 19 13:52:41 2010
Subject: Fund Raising
Hello Mr. Currie,
My name is KITNfury and am a fairly recent graduate of KSU. I know that there has been some attention given to Frank Martin’s contract from our fan base, which may actually keep you from receiving this email. But if you have the time, I’d appreciate it if you could keep reading.
Instead of me demanding that you give Frank a raise (although I do hope something can be worked out for one of the top coaches in the conference), I’m writing you this instead as a suggestion to help raise the monies needed for this and other athletic endeavors for KSU. Regardless of a person’s pay scale, writing a single check per year for the amount that can be afforded brings apprehension to the donor. Look no further than no interest financing offered by a multitude of businesses from Home Depot to Nebraska Furniture Mart. They know that people could probably just buy that couch or window, but it sure makes them feel better about to pay in “low monthly installments”. This brings me to my suggestion….
Assume you think Frank Martin is worth $1.3M/year. That’s a lot of scratch to ask from large donors that are already donating. It’s also a ton of cash to ask from people that can’t write huge checks. Why not start a system of automatic payments from alumni bank accounts for a small amount? If you could get even half the crowd from a football game to donate a measly $5/month, you’ve got yourself an extra $1.5M/year. Who can’t afford $5 to $10 per month?
Once a person signs up, they’ll be much less likely to cancel because it’s easy, out of site out of mind, and makes no difference in their day to day lifestyle. Now, most wouldn’t consider a $60 or $120 check to break them, but $120 is enough to take a small family out to dinner and a movie. At that point, you have a man or woman considering what they are sacrificing in order to support KSU. That is not what you want. Just a thought.
That is a really good idea, actually.
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i really don't think anything is going to get done before the end of the season. if i'm frank, i have no reason to negotiate anything at this point. every game that goes by increases his value in the market.
having said that, frank has always been one to look out for his assistants. how much is it going to take to retain them, including greenawalt, and make everyone happy? we still need 'Te400k if he's willing to stick around a couple more seasons although has martin done enough to solidify himself w/ DCA on his own?
This is very, very accurate. Smart guy.
Umm there is a big diff in inking someone at the end of the year and lowballing the coach that's given you the most success in the last 20 years that has no reason to not be completely offended when your lame duck worthless football coach is making some serious jack
this. frank's going to remember that. how he hell could currie (and people in the AD office) read that man so wrong? imo, regardless of whether or not a deal gets done, frank is gone within 2 years. had currie not done this (allegedly) then I honestly think frank would stay (or rather I'd be surprised if he left to a non-elite school job).
as an aside, we paid Wooly about 655K. so umm...yeah.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4179/is_20040929/ai_n11819162/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4179/is_20040929/ai_n11819162/)
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The monthly donation is a great idea. I think a lot of people would do that, which in turn is a simple way to raise a lot of money.
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an aside to all of this, this story really has national attention now with what decourcey was saying this morning and it all originated here. its too bad ksufans.com (and Jmart)didn't get attached to any of it.
i heard decourcey on my way into work and was kind of upset that he didn't reference this site specifically, so i emailed him about it. just got his response.
rick,
I appreciate and understand your concern. If you remember, I was one of the few people in the media who was completely behind the Frank Martin hire from the beginning. As to the question on why i did not reference KsuFans.com when talking to Nate and Steven this morning, i will simply say that i tried to access that website throughout the day and evening yesterday but was unable to. Thanks again for your input and for listening to me this morning on The Boarder Patrol.
-Mike D
I got a very similar text. He said "LOL at the kscrashfans.com"
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:rolleyes:
How much money have you guys donated yet? You mocked ClayKat's idea, but money makes the world go round.
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:rolleyes:
How much money have you guys donated yet? You mocked ClayKat's idea, but money makes the world go round.
my donations, apparently, went to Deb's raise. she deserves it, though. women's basketball only loses about as much money as frank martin's program makes.
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:rolleyes:
How much money have you guys donated yet? You mocked ClayKat's idea, but money makes the world go round.
I'm a donor turd blossom.
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I received a follow up phone call. Apparently, they do offer some sort of monthly donations. I assume it can be a simple withdrawal from a person's bank account like I mentioned. I am getting info mailed to me and will post details when I receive it. They really should push it on the common folk like me.
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I received a follow up phone call. Apparently, they do offer some sort of monthly donations. I assume it can be a simple withdrawal from a person's bank account like I mentioned. I am getting info mailed to me and will post details when I receive it. They really should push it on the common folk like me.
It should be front page of the athletics site.
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I received a follow up phone call. Apparently, they do offer some sort of monthly donations. I assume it can be a simple withdrawal from a person's bank account like I mentioned. I am getting info mailed to me and will post details when I receive it. They really should push it on the common folk like me.
It should be front page of the athletics site.
Seriously. It should read "Good basketball for the permanently low rate of $5/month. Sign up now!".
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They kind of need guerilla warfare type fund raising. Like, start a 5K for 20 club. 5 thousand people, at 20 bucks a month = 1.2m. Everyone that does this gets a signed basketball from frank, the staff and the players or something. f*ck, I don't know.
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They kind of need guerilla warfare type fund raising. Like, start a 5K for 20 club. 5 thousand people, at 20 bucks a month = 1.2m. Everyone that does this gets a signed basketball from frank, the staff and the players or something. f*ck, I don't know.
that thing about how you donated for patterson was really funny, cz.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
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Yet, he waited for a plane to go to Manhattan. Should have used roadrunner.
Face it, while the weefer tore down KSU athletics, we will never have another supporter like the weefer... at least not while PresKS is around.
Some student senators drafted a resolution last night to encourage the administration to give an extension/raise to Frank Martin.
It will provide interest. This will provide more encouragement to PresKS*
*who btw, didn't make it until the very end to the game
Plane got delayed, his flight didnt get into KC until 6:30
-
Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
Depends what "lowball" is. Neither side will obviously say what the offer is on the table in the middle of negotiations. Maybe it's already $1.1. Maybe it's $1.2. It obviously helps Frank's agent to cry about the offer after this game, no matter what it is. I doubt Frank has some rube working for him who only has KSU's best interests at heart. And he knows Currie can't come out and defend himself at all at this stage.
I don't remember anyone demanding Frank be paid $1.5 after the Fort Hays State game, so the timing of this all seems rather like cynical agent posturing to me...
OTOH, I support it if it increases donations.
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Yet, he waited for a plane to go to Manhattan. Should have used roadrunner.
Face it, while the weefer tore down KSU athletics, we will never have another supporter like the weefer... at least not while PresKS is around.
Some student senators drafted a resolution last night to encourage the administration to give an extension/raise to Frank Martin.
It will provide interest. This will provide more encouragement to PresKS*
*who btw, didn't make it until the very end to the game
Plane got delayed, his flight didnt get into KC until 6:30
i'd rather have a president that "gets it" and stays more out of the way than a persident who "gets it" and interferes at every oppy. could care less if shulz goes to a single game. ever.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
Depends what "lowball" is. Neither side will obviously say what the offer is on the table in the middle of negotiations. Maybe it's already $1.1. Maybe it's $1.2. It obviously helps Frank's agent to cry about the offer after this game, no matter what it is. I doubt Frank has some rube working for him who only has KSU's best interests at heart. And he knows Currie can't come out and defend himself at all at this stage.
I don't remember anyone demanding Frank be paid $1.5 after the Fort Hays State game, so the timing of this all seems rather like cynical agent posturing to me...
OTOH, I support it if it increases donations.
Yep. That's why I put "assuming."
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
Depends what "lowball" is. Neither side will obviously say what the offer is on the table in the middle of negotiations. Maybe it's already $1.1. Maybe it's $1.2. It obviously helps Frank's agent to cry about the offer after this game, no matter what it is. I doubt Frank has some rube working for him who only has KSU's best interests at heart. And he knows Currie can't come out and defend himself at all at this stage.
I don't remember anyone demanding Frank be paid $1.5 after the Fort Hays State game, so the timing of this all seems rather like cynical agent posturing to me...
OTOH, I support it if it increases donations.
only retards were complaining after the fhsu game and i don't even see people demanding 1.5 in this thread which has to be the biggest "pay frank more" discussion around. also, it's widely circulated that the current offer is still less than 1.0.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
Depends what "lowball" is. Neither side will obviously say what the offer is on the table in the middle of negotiations. Maybe it's already $1.1. Maybe it's $1.2. It obviously helps Frank's agent to cry about the offer after this game, no matter what it is. I doubt Frank has some rube working for him who only has KSU's best interests at heart. And he knows Currie can't come out and defend himself at all at this stage.
I don't remember anyone demanding Frank be paid $1.5 after the Fort Hays State game, so the timing of this all seems rather like cynical agent posturing to me...
According to Kietz, lowball was a $100K raise for Frank. But as I said before, who knows who this info got communicated to Kietz and then how Kietz communicated it on his show.
Whatever the case, I think there is probably something to it, and I don't necessarily think its a bad thing to get out there to mobilize the fanbase.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
[/quote
martin is dominating currie.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. it's insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
finally a voice of reason.
haven't any of you turds seen Jerry McGuire? Arizona was lowballing #83 Rod Tidwell all the way until they had to give him what he wanted. negotiations work this way, frank isn't going to bolt b/c he was offended by a lowball offer that took place 10 months previous. when the rubber hits the road, Currie needs to step up and deliver, now really isn't that time. if he doesn't, and Frank senses that he won't get what he "deserves", then he'll get pissed and look elsewhere, but again, now isn't that time.
imho, #83 Rod Tidwell got paid and so will Frank and his posse. :hope:
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
I would agree with this. And if Currie tried to do it in, let's say, august or something then that wouldn't have been a tactically bad thing, especially considering that's about when we gave 2 non-for-profit head coaches raises and about the time we gave grandpa a raise. Now, though, he better know that Frank and his staff have to get paid. Like 1.2m for frank and 250-300k split out over the assistants and staff. I mean, Mean Green needs a raise too.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
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when the rubber hits the road, Currie needs to step up and deliver, now really isn't that time. if he doesn't, and Frank senses that he won't get what he "deserves", then he'll get pissed and look elsewhere, but again, now isn't that time.
This is why I see this as a positive, just in case Currie didn't exaclty realize how much the fanbase is behind Martin, he should have a very good idea now.
That said, the over-reactionary K-State fanbase has been a little pathetic, not to say that ths reaction surprises me. Its not like Frank is going to finish out the season coaching in the Big East.
Now that the fnas have had our little uprising and our "voices are heard", let Frank and his lawyer and Currie get back to work on getting this thing done.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
everybody is different though and if i was in franks shoes and some new guy on the scene comes in and purposefully low balls me before the season starts, it would offend me. maybe not you, maybe not frank, but it would me.
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I'll go ahead and disagree with now not being the time if that precludes in season negotiations with a deal before the season is done. Why the hell wait if you actually believe in Frank Martin and you feel you can come to an agreement. You wanna wait until March when jobs start to come open and Frank doesn't have deal and the Arkansas job is open?
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everybody is different though and if i was in franks shoes and some new guy on the scene comes in and purposefully low balls me before the season starts, it would offend me. maybe not you, maybe not frank, but it would me.
I'm saying it wouldn't have been a lowball then. Hence the quotes. What is considered a lowball now would not necessarily be a lowball back then.
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That said, the over-reactionary K-State fanbase has been a little pathetic, not to say that ths reaction surprises me. Its not like Frank is going to finish out the season coaching in the Big East.
Now that the fnas have had our little uprising and our "voices are heard", let Frank and his lawyer and Currie get back to work on getting this thing done.
good point _fan. this style of waiting until the season ends to take care of our coaches worked wonders w/ huggins. everybody just sit back and relax. let the lawyers take care of it all. i mean sheesh, we're kstate. we should just be happy to even have a basketball team.
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who gets a 100k raise on a contract extension after having success?
"good job coach, we'll pay you a little more than bz, doc, and 'derms you've earned it"
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That said, the over-reactionary K-State fanbase has been a little pathetic, not to say that ths reaction surprises me. Its not like Frank is going to finish out the season coaching in the Big East.
Now that the fnas have had our little uprising and our "voices are heard", let Frank and his lawyer and Currie get back to work on getting this thing done.
good point _fan. this style of waiting until the season ends to take care of our coaches worked wonders w/ huggins. everybody just sit back and relax. let the lawyers take care of it all. i mean sheesh, we're kstate. we should just be happy to even have a basketball team.
I'm not advocating wating at all. Get back to work to me means pressing forward and trying to get this thing done before the end of this season. I agree it would be a mistake to wait.
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who gets a 100k raise on a contract extension after having success?
"good job coach, we'll pay you a little more than bz, doc, and 'derms you've earned it"
ex freaking actly. how can people not agree that they lowballed frank regardless of when the offer was? i mean, frank and co didn't accept it, right? the offer was so low that they couldn't even come to an agreement, right?
if you're not going to make an offer or enter into negotiations in a way that has a chance to be successful then just don't do it. you come off looking unprofessional or run into the risk of offending the person that you're trying to negotiate with. just don't do it. but hey, frank sure doesn't seem like the kind of person that would be offended by this or take it personally, so no big deal.
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This whole thing has gotten pretty awesome imo 8-)
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if you're not going to make an offer or enter into negotiations in a way that has a chance to be successful then just don't do it. you come off looking unprofessional or run into the risk of offending the person that you're trying to negotiate with. just don't do it. but hey, frank sure doesn't seem like the kind of person that would be offended by this or take it personally, so no big deal.
Again, it had a chance to be successful. timing. If Frank accepts 5 years/$900k in September, you don't think he's getting a raise at the end of the season (or not sooner)? Silly.
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if you're not going to make an offer or enter into negotiations in a way that has a chance to be successful then just don't do it. you come off looking unprofessional or run into the risk of offending the person that you're trying to negotiate with. just don't do it. but hey, frank sure doesn't seem like the kind of person that would be offended by this or take it personally, so no big deal.
Again, it had a chance to be successful. timing. If Frank accepts 5 years/$900k in September, you don't think he's getting a raise at the end of the season (or not sooner)? Silly.
Yeah, agreed. Paying him 900K in September would've been market value at the time. Now the market value has exceeded that. And no doubt with what he's done, we could've easily raised the bar again after this season.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk: ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.
Check this out. If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation: according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league. Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players. Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:
Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk: ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.
Check this out. If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation: according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league. Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players. Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:
Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
that looks about right to me, preseason. :dunno:
I think the timing of the offer is intentionally vague. I'd also be curious what Frank's counter-offer was (if one was extended). Hmmm.
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if you're not going to make an offer or enter into negotiations in a way that has a chance to be successful then just don't do it. you come off looking unprofessional or run into the risk of offending the person that you're trying to negotiate with. just don't do it. but hey, frank sure doesn't seem like the kind of person that would be offended by this or take it personally, so no big deal.
Again, it had a chance to be successful. timing. If Frank accepts 5 years/$900k in September, you don't think he's getting a raise at the end of the season (or not sooner)? Silly.
Yeah, agreed. Paying him 900K in September would've been market value at the time. Now the market value has exceeded that. And no doubt with what he's done, we could've easily raised the bar again after this season.
question for michigancat, _fan, clams, etc....
if martin was offered a hundred thousand more than he was currently making before the season and it wasn't a lowball offer and he could've easily just got another raise again "at the end of the season (or not sooner)." then why didn't he take it? why didn't frank and co agree to the new contract before the season? i mean, he didn't get lowballed. the offer was fair. he easily could've got more money "at the end of the season (or not sooner)." why didn't he/they take it?
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk: ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.
Check this out. If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation: according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league. Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players. Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:
Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
that looks about right to me, preseason. :dunno:
I think the timing of the offer is intentionally vague. I'd also be curious what Frank's counter-offer was (if one was extended). Hmmm.
Agreed.
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question for michigancat, _fan, clams, etc....
if martin was offered a hundred thousand more than he was currently making before the season and it wasn't a lowball offer and he could've easily just got another raise again "at the end of the season (or not sooner)." then why didn't he take it? why didn't frank and co agree to the new contract before the season? i mean, he didn't get lowballed. the offer was fair. he easily could've got more money "at the end of the season (or not sooner). why didn't he/they take it?
I don't have an answer. This is really why this discussion becomes futile at some point and why Kietz/J-Mart/source has been masterful here. We simply have limited information and can only make assumptions. I for one am not really assuming the offer was made before the season, I'm just reacting to if it was made then. I would guess that the offer came after the season started, but before the UT win. But that is a broad time period.
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question for michigancat, _fan, clams, etc....
if martin was offered a hundred thousand more than he was currently making before the season and it wasn't a lowball offer and he could've easily just got another raise again "at the end of the season (or not sooner)." then why didn't he take it? why didn't frank and co agree to the new contract before the season? i mean, he didn't get lowballed. the offer was fair. he easily could've got more money "at the end of the season (or not sooner)." why didn't he/they take it?
I guess my reaction would be that in august, if I had heard that currie wanted to give frank a raise to 900K and extend, I prolly would have been like "I'd have thought he would have gone a touch higher, like 950K or maybe 1million". So, to me, that's not necessary an eggrecious (sp) or offensive offer. Lower than maybe frank wanted at that time? Yes, but not so grossly offensive that frank seems slighted (though maybe he did anyway). 900K even a day before the Texas game is a slap in the face to Martin. 900K after the Texas game is practically raping his wife.
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My powertardy suggestion/email and his response in reverse chronological order.
KITN,
Thanks for your note and offer of support. I am contacting Chad Weiberg to his staff can follow upw with regarding the Ahearn Fund. We do indeed offer the opportunity to make monthy automatic donations in increments.
The strength of K-State is broad based support and we appreciate each and every donor.
gain- thanks for your note and Go Cats!
John
From: KITN
To: John Currie
Sent: Tue Jan 19 13:52:41 2010
Subject: Fund Raising
Hello Mr. Currie,
My name is KITNfury and am a fairly recent graduate of KSU. I know that there has been some attention given to Frank Martin’s contract from our fan base, which may actually keep you from receiving this email. But if you have the time, I’d appreciate it if you could keep reading.
Instead of me demanding that you give Frank a raise (although I do hope something can be worked out for one of the top coaches in the conference), I’m writing you this instead as a suggestion to help raise the monies needed for this and other athletic endeavors for KSU. Regardless of a person’s pay scale, writing a single check per year for the amount that can be afforded brings apprehension to the donor. Look no further than no interest financing offered by a multitude of businesses from Home Depot to Nebraska Furniture Mart. They know that people could probably just buy that couch or window, but it sure makes them feel better about to pay in “low monthly installments”. This brings me to my suggestion….
Assume you think Frank Martin is worth $1.3M/year. That’s a lot of scratch to ask from large donors that are already donating. It’s also a ton of cash to ask from people that can’t write huge checks. Why not start a system of automatic payments from alumni bank accounts for a small amount? If you could get even half the crowd from a football game to donate a measly $5/month, you’ve got yourself an extra $1.5M/year. Who can’t afford $5 to $10 per month?
Once a person signs up, they’ll be much less likely to cancel because it’s easy, out of site out of mind, and makes no difference in their day to day lifestyle. Now, most wouldn’t consider a $60 or $120 check to break them, but $120 is enough to take a small family out to dinner and a movie. At that point, you have a man or woman considering what they are sacrificing in order to support KSU. That is not what you want. Just a thought.
That is a really good idea, actually.
Not that it matters, but just FYI, I sent that idea to Currie when he launched the whole suggestion box idea soon after he got to KSU. Only problem is that I referenced the Obama campaign and how they raised small donations and encouraged the $5/month automatic drafts so that people didn't really see what they were donating. I forgot he was a southerner and as soon as he saw Obama in the note, I'm reasonably sure it got deleted.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk: ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.
Check this out. If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation: according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league. Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players. Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:
Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board. BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”. What a waste of time reading all this :bs:
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Just like everyone, he'd rather have guaranteed money...except for Ricky Williams.
That's what happens when you hire Master P as your agent.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk: ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.
Check this out. If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation: according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league. Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players. Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:
Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board. BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”. What a waste of time reading all this :bs:
thanks for your input woolyfan0709.
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Sorry guys it was an early morning in my mega elite resort hotel room . . .
Bottom line . . . at this juncture Frank doesn't deserve anymore than a $2-$300K raise.
Do something significant in the NCAA he deserves a $4-$500k raise.
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Sorry guys it was an early morning in my mega elite resort hotel room . . .
Bottom line . . . at this juncture Frank doesn't deserve anymore than a $2-$300K raise.
Do something singificant in the NCAA he deserves a $4-$500k raise.
Sweet. Just when it looked like this discussion was about to run its course.
:billypopcorn:
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Sorry guys it was an early morning in my mega elite resort hotel room . . .
Bottom line . . . at this juncture Frank doesn't deserve anymore than a $2-$300K raise.
Do something singificant in the NCAA he deserves a $4-$500k raise.
As long as some other school isn't willing to pay him that type of money. Can you imagine the meltdown if Frank and Co. make a lateral type of move, simply because it pays more than we felt they are worth?
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Sorry guys it was an early morning in my mega elite resort hotel room . . .
Bottom line . . . at this juncture Frank doesn't deserve anymore than a $2-$300K raise.
Do something singificant in the NCAA he deserves a $4-$500k raise.
really? you want to base that much of your offer based on a single tournament in a single year? just shoot me now please. this is painful.
"elite eight in '10 and we sign martin to a lifetime contract. but if not, then we can do better." -dax
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lmao. if we passed the ball better and our shorts weren't so baggy, dax would like frank.
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Sorry cire, I think my comments were jaded by the fact I wasted 30+ minutes of my life reading through all 8 pages. I think he obviously deserves more but I personally have no idea what that would/should be. I am also surprised to see Fatlock saying 1.7 and that, that’s still not enough.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1695275.html
“He walked into a hot mess, the financial and public-relations crisis created by an alleged under-the-table deal with Ron Prince and Bob Krause’s Bernie Madoff School of Athletic Administration.”
:lol:
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Not/can't listen, but from what I've read Kietz repeated $100K raise...
but 40K for Frank, 30K each for Figgs and Undy.
Is this true? (what Kietz said, not that his numbers are correct.)
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it's my understanding this "lowball offer" was made either just prior to or early in the season after some ongoing discussion. I fully support a contract adjustment at the end of this season, but I think anyone that sits here and says they think Frank deserved a $1.2mil contract based on the first 2 years of results is lying or nuts.
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Sorry cire, I think my comments were jaded by the fact I wasted 30+ minutes of my life reading through all 8 pages. I think he obviously deserves more but I personally have no idea what that would/should be. I am also surprised to see Fatlock saying 1.7 and that, that’s still not enough.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1695275.html
“He walked into a hot mess, the financial and public-relations crisis created by an alleged under-the-table deal with Ron Prince and Bob Krause’s Bernie Madoff School of Athletic Administration.”
:lol:
whitlock's a dumbass, he's not worth that much now. I cringed when I read that.
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That's whitlock's preemptive, KSU is too cheap/poor to sustain success and keep coaches around.
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it's my understanding this "lowball offer" was made either just prior to or early in the season after some ongoing discussion. I fully support a contract adjustment at the end of this season, but I think anyone that sits here and says they think Frank deserved a $1.2mil contract based on the first 2 years of results is lying or nuts.
i think it's safe to say that frank and the coaching staff thought they did. looks like they were right. are they liars or nuts? which one?
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anyone listening to 810?
gardnercat wrote:
FYI - Kietz is on talking about this again. Currie offered 40k/year raise for Frank and 30k/year each for two assistants. So the 100k wasn't even for Frank alone. What a joke
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That's whitlock's preemptive, KSU is too cheap/poor to sustain success and keep coaches around.
That fat bastard just hates that we're having success, so he's just desperately trying to find something negative to write about us.
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I'm sure everyone in here thinks they deserve a raise.
I think Frank is great, but I also see the side of Frank agreed to a contract for X years at Y dollars. If KSU wants to give him a nominal raise that's their choice. A major renegotiation of the contract after 2 years? Who does that?
This is all based upon the speculation that other schools will come calling. Fine...if they do, KSU can make him an offer. If they don't then what? What if next year we go back to Wooly ball? Not saying we will, but it's possible.
For a group that complains we overpay Snyder, a man who has 20 years of results and is a proven coach, this argument is disengenuous.
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I'm sure everyone in here thinks they deserve a raise.
I think Frank is great, but I also see the side of Frank agreed to a contract for X years at Y dollars. If KSU wants to give him a nominal raise that's their choice. A major renegotiation of the contract after 2 years? Who does that?
This is all based upon the speculation that other schools will come calling. Fine...if they do, KSU can make him an offer. If they don't then what? What if next year we go back to Wooly ball? Not saying we will, but it's possible.
For a group that complains we overpay Snyder, a man who has 20 years of results and is a proven coach, this argument is disengenuous.
we should hire Bobby Bowden, right?
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I'm sure everyone in here thinks they deserve a raise.
I think Frank is great, but I also see the side of Frank agreed to a contract for X years at Y dollars. If KSU wants to give him a nominal raise that's their choice. A major renegotiation of the contract after 2 years? Who does that?
This is all based upon the speculation that other schools will come calling. Fine...if they do, KSU can make him an offer. If they don't then what? What if next year we go back to Wooly ball? Not saying we will, but it's possible.
For a group that complains we overpay Snyder, a man who has 20 years of results and is a proven coach, this argument is disengenuous.
this is why we can't have nice things. :-[
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where is kietz getting his info?
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I'm sure everyone in here thinks they deserve a raise.
I think Frank is great, but I also see the side of Frank agreed to a contract for X years at Y dollars. If KSU wants to give him a nominal raise that's their choice. A major renegotiation of the contract after 2 years? Who does that?
This is all based upon the speculation that other schools will come calling. Fine...if they do, KSU can make him an offer. If they don't then what? What if next year we go back to Wooly ball? Not saying we will, but it's possible.
For a group that complains we overpay Snyder, a man who has 20 years of results and is a proven coach, this argument is disengenuous.
we should hire Bobby Bowden, right?
I really don't think Bobby Bowden would be a logical replacement for Frank Martin.
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Not that I like his contract. But Bill Snyder's contract is about 8% of our usual annual income for football. In addition, approx $140K of his annual salary is paid for by an endowment.
Based on last years revenue, Frank's salary is 15% of the FY 2009 men's basketball income. I don't believe there's any basketball coaching endowments (there are multiple basketball scholarship endowments FYI).
That's a highly simplestic snapshot that doesn't account for contribution fluctuations due to relative success or lack thereof on the field/court, nor takes into account the relative value of K-State's media and sponsorship contracts. It also doesn't take into account market flucatioins in endowment value, which in turn influence annual payout from the Foundation to KSU athletics.
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Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk: ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.
Check this out. If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation: according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league. Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players. Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:
Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
that looks about right to me, preseason. :dunno:
I think the timing of the offer is intentionally vague. I'd also be curious what Frank's counter-offer was (if one was extended). Hmmm.
Agreed.
agreed also. also, petro laid out this discussion similar to how you did Del Trems on his show today.
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It is getting to the point where Steve Dave is going to have to suck it up and start man-whoring for the program, get Frank some money that way, I'm just saying
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Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
that looks about right to me, preseason. :dunno:
I think the timing of the offer is intentionally vague. I'd also be curious what Frank's counter-offer was (if one was extended). Hmmm.
Agreed.
agreed also. also, petro laid out this discussion similar to how you did Del Trems on his show today.
i'm not sure anyone outside Whitlock is arguing for Frank making as much as any of those coaches
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where is kietz getting his info?
I may be wrong, but believe Kietzman referred to his source that he's had inside the AD for 5 basketball coaches. That would go back through Huggins, Woolridge, Asbury, Altman, and Kruger? If so, Kietzman painted a target on the back of his source--who's been around since the mid-80's?
Kietzman said he didn't know anything "current" (the 100K was preseason), so he's basically full of baloney and trying to make a story to drive listeners to 810. Don't fall for it.
-
Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk: ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.
Check this out. If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation: according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league. Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players. Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:
Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board. BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”. What a waste of time reading all this :bs:
Hey dumb&@#%, how many of those 6 coaches do you think are better than Frank Martin? Lets trade Frank for Travis Ford, and Mark Turgeon! What stupid &@#%ing logic! You pay your coaches based on how good they are not what somewhat else has done. Paying someone on their own merits, what a novel concept! On your job how would like to have your pay based on how fast the pimple faced geek next you flips burgers? You are great on the fries but Austin is a real wiz on the grill, no raise for you loser.
I'm almost to the point to hoping Frank doesn't get paid, so I can follow whatever school he ends up at. It's clear that retarded KSU fans are happy with a mediocre football program and could hardly give a crap about basketball. You want to play this game, compare what the old ass football coach makes for his one damn conference championship when your dumb ass was in high school, to that of his peers. Is he overpaid, probably should give some back, no?
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Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
that looks about right to me, preseason. :dunno:
I think the timing of the offer is intentionally vague. I'd also be curious what Frank's counter-offer was (if one was extended). Hmmm.
Agreed.
agreed also. also, petro laid out this discussion similar to how you did Del Trems on his show today.
i'm not sure anyone outside Whitlock is arguing for Frank making as much as any of those coaches
Actually they are. Many here are saying $1.2 to 1.3 mil, which is more than Capel and as much as Turgeon and Ford.
ku 3M
UT 2M
MU 1.55M
OSU 1.3M
A&M 1.2M
OU 1.05M
CU 800k
NU 800K
KSU 760K
ISU 650k
BU unkown
TT unkown
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So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
-
Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk: ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.
Check this out. If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation: according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league. Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players. Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:
Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board. BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”. What a waste of time reading all this :bs:
Hey dumbfrack, how many of those 6 coaches do you think are better than Frank Martin? Lets trade Frank for Travis Ford, and Mark Turgeon! What stupid fracking logic! You pay your coaches based on how good they are not what somewhat else has done. Paying someone on their own merits, what a novel concept! On your job how would like to have your pay based on how fast the pimple faced geek next you flips burgers? You are great on the fries but Austin is a real wiz on the grill, no raise for you loser.
I'm almost to the point to hoping Frank doesn't get paid, so I can follow whatever school he ends up at. It's clear that retarded KSU fans are happy with a mediocre football program and could hardly give a crap about basketball. You want to play this game, compare what the old ass football coach makes for his one damn conference championship when your dumb ass was in high school, to that of his peers. Is he overpaid, probably should give some back, no?
Personally, I'm just saving my meltdown for when it's really needed. Think me when we hired old ballz x 1 million.
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So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
that was my exact point above. Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?
-
Two observations:
1: Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...
2: Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking? Horrible idea for two reasons: you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations. A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.
I think the key is the timing of the "lowball". A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.
it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.
I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time. J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.
'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote. Great lesson (and film).
Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk: ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.
Check this out. If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation: according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league. Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players. Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:
Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.
Hmmm.
You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board. BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”. What a waste of time reading all this :bs:
Hey dumbfrack, how many of those 6 coaches do you think are better than Frank Martin? Lets trade Frank for Travis Ford, and Mark Turgeon! What stupid fracking logic! You pay your coaches based on how good they are not what somewhat else has done. Paying someone on their own merits, what a novel concept! On your job how would like to have your pay based on how fast the pimple faced geek next you flips burgers? You are great on the fries but Austin is a real wiz on the grill, no raise for you loser.
I'm almost to the point to hoping Frank doesn't get paid, so I can follow whatever school he ends up at. It's clear that retarded KSU fans are happy with a mediocre football program and could hardly give a crap about basketball. You want to play this game, compare what the old ass football coach makes for his one damn conference championship when your dumb ass was in high school, to that of his peers. Is he overpaid, probably should give some back, no?
lets step outside u frack!
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So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
why are you so intent on paying or not paying coaches based strictly off of what they did in one tournament for one specific year? can you not use any other method to try and decide whether a coach and their staff would be worth retaining or not?
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So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
he's finished in the 4th in the league for 2 years and we're paying him like he's finished in the bottom 4. and if you can't see he's building a consistent top 4/6 big 12 team, then we shouldn't pay him a dime and fire him right now and find someone that is truly worth 760K...judging by the salaries, that's mcneck, doc, and bzdelik. you have such a hypocritical stance on an AD being proactive it's hilarious.
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where is kietz getting his info?
I may be wrong, but believe Kietzman referred to his source that he's had inside the AD for 5 basketball coaches. That would go back through Huggins, Woolridge, Asbury, Altman, and Kruger? If so, Kietzman painted a target on the back of his source--who's been around since the mid-80's?
Kietzman said he didn't know anything "current" (the 100K was preseason), so he's basically full of baloney and trying to make a story to drive listeners to 810. Don't fall for it.
Did he really admit that? If so, that really changes things for me. Now, if the 100k offer was made within the last few weeks, then I think that's rather absurd.
If 100K was offered at the beginning of the year, I'd say it's AT LEAST tripled since then, and is still climbing. If there really are other schools out there gearing up for a run at him, it's going up even faster.
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So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
that was my exact point above. Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?
He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level. When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it. It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.
Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't. Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season. We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.
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I dont know what the big deal is. You can buy a nice house at Grand Miere and a rocking Escalade for $760k in Manhattan. Not to mention send your kids to private school and buy your groceries at the whole foods store instead of walmart. :thumbsup:
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So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
that was my exact point above. Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?
He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level. When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it. It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.
Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't. Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season. We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.
LOL's, love posts like this. No one, and I mean no one, (except maybe sys after ford's extension) was on the boards talking about extending Frank before the season. All these tards melting down are acting like you knew we were destined to be in the top 10 before the season started. LMAO, GMAFB, etc.
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The only FACT in this whole discussion is that nobody knows a damn thing about ADJC's and Frank Martin's discussions behind closed doors.
People are melting down because Keitzman has scared them into thinking Martin is leaving for another school.
Martin is treated like a king. Curry is building him a palace of a practice facility. The only missing piece of the puzzle is a contract between $1.25 - 1.5 million.
Personally, I have faith that Curry is not going to let this goldmine leave town. The guy comes from UT, for god's sake. He hired Bruce Pearl. If anybody knows how important basketball is and how to retain a coach, it's Curry. Martin might as well be Pearl's identical twin.
JFC! this fan base makes me sick sometimes.
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xxxx,
Thanks for your note!
I'm not familiar with the news reports you are refering to, but I totally agree with you on Coach Martin. He's a doing a great job and is a great fit for K-State. While we maintain our commitment to fiscal integrity we need to work hard to do what it takes to take care of him and his family and continue to give him the resources to build the program.
Again, thanks for your note - Go Cats!
John
:blank:
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So let me get this straight.
You all know for a fact that just like Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins, John Currie has not even given Frank Martin or his representation a single hint that he would like to discuss Frank's contract situation at some point in the near future. You all are saying that John Currie has taken a "kiss the ring . . . you should be thankful that I hired you" approach to Frank Martin . . . as Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins??
Also, why would K-State rush in to give Frank Martin more money, and possibly more guranteed money right this second?? Why wouldn't John Currie initiate the process but take a wait and see approach in terms of how the season plays out. There's still 12 conference games and a confernce post season tourney to play, and this team can beat anybody, and get beat by anybody.
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So let me get this straight.
You all know for a fact that just like Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins, John Currie has not even given Frank Martin or his representation a single hint that he would like to discuss Frank's contract situation at some point in the near future. You all are saying that John Currie has taken a "kiss the ring . . . you should be thankful that I hired you" approach to Frank Martin . . . as Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins??
no, I'm saying that we have an AD who is doing what Weiser didn't do and you seem to taking the "kiss the ring" approach to frank.
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So zacker based on some random BS about a pre-season offer for a small increase in salary, John Currie is taking a complete, "Just be happy you have a job" approach to Frank Martin over the last 3 months??
Who are your sources??
-
So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
that was my exact point above. Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?
He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level. When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it. It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.
Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't. Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season. We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.
LOL's, love posts like this. No one, and I mean no one, (except maybe sys after ford's extension) was on the boards talking about extending Frank before the season. All these tards melting down are acting like you knew we were destined to be in the top 10 before the season started. LMAO, GMAFB, etc.
Nobody knew we'd be in the top 10 but I was pretty damn sure we'd be a tourney team which was enough for me and most everyone. My point is you don't give a guy a second contract and keep him at the bottom of the league. You either decide he's worth more then that or you get rid of him. The idea of extending a coach and keeping hiim in the bottom four is just absurd to me if he's not worth more then the bottom four after two or three years then he's not worth keeping.
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As much as I love Frank, I am quite certain that ADJC is waiting for a more impressive accomplishment (don't get me wrong I believe that the win over Texas is impressive enough) to be the catalyst for the extension to Frank's contract, or a substantial increase in his salary.
Its apparent that rankings (as of lately) mean little to ADJC; In my opinion, I really think that he's hoping for a NCAA tournament arrival/success run, or at least a BigXII trophy.
Needless to say, pay the man. I will send my email tonight.
:bballonlyfan:
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I am starting to think that we need to have a "we beat Texas" and also raise a "Top 10 in January" banner right next to it.
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this thread sucks and is boring. anyone want to talk about sports?
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So let me get this straight.
You all know for a fact that just like Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins, John Currie has not even given Frank Martin or his representation a single hint that he would like to discuss Frank's contract situation at some point in the near future. You all are saying that John Currie has taken a "kiss the ring . . . you should be thankful that I hired you" approach to Frank Martin . . . as Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins??
Yeah, I'm picking up on this sentiment as well. I just have no idea where it's coming from. Until Monday night (when the scare tactics began), Currie was the best thing at K-State since jean shorts.
Also, why would K-State rush in to give Frank Martin more money, and possibly more guranteed money right this second?? Why wouldn't John Currie initiate the process but take a wait and see approach in terms of how the season plays out. There's still 12 conference games and a confernce post season tourney to play, and this team can beat anybody, and get beat by anybody. They still play an extremely ugly brand of basketball.
I disagree with just about everything here. Martin is ripe for a contract extension. He's beaten 3 top 10 teams in his short tenure, 3 top 25 teams this year, and is compiling wins at a faster rate than any coach in the modern era.
There is still a lot of bball to play. true. whereas he could lose 7 of 8, he could also win 7 of 8 and go into the tournament with 3 losses, probably putting us in the conversation as the best team in America.
And I don't think we play an "extremely" ugly brand of basketball. We play hardnosed and physical. If that's what you mean. And though our offense has been shaky since MU, we've got the 3rd highest PPG avg. in the league.
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So zacker based on some random BS about a pre-season offer for a small increase in salary, John Currie is taking a complete, "Just be happy you have a job" approach to Frank Martin over the last 3 months??
Who are your sources??
No, don't be dramatic. It's obvious that Currie wants to do something to increase frank's compensation (currie has stated this). It's how he's gone about it that is up for debate. J-Mart (who started this started this thread) indicated the manner at which he had heard (I'm assuming through sources) that currie was going about it. My opinion on it is that if he's truly going about it that way, it's the wrong way, given what frank has done, the type of person frank is, and the type of budget we have.
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So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
that was my exact point above. Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?
He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level. When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it. It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.
Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't. Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season. We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.
if you are inclined, go dig up the Big 12 salaries from 2007 when Frank was hired. I bet the average salary was quite a bit lower than it is today.
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I am not being dramatic . . .
In addition, we really don't know what's going on.
I for one will be pi$$ed off, if, at the end of the season we finish in the Top 4 in the Big 12, make it to the NCAA and have a nice little run . . . and Frank doesn't get a significant pay raise, and a firm absolute committment to the basketball practice facility replete with formal announcement, and exact dates as to when bids will go out and construction begins.
However, at this juncture going all fanboy(s) and saying that Currie needs to give the guy a significant pay increase and a new contract right now . . . is stupid.
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So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
that was my exact point above. Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?
He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level. When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it. It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.
Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't. Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season. We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.
if you are inclined, go dig up the Big 12 salaries from 2007 when Frank was hired. I bet the average salary was quite a bit lower than it is today.
You think Pat Knight is making more than Bob Knight?
You think Turd is making more than Gillespie (before Kentucky took him?)
Moron. Go ahead and compare us to Iowa St., CU and NU. You clearly think that's where we belong.
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So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.
ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive. If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.
So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??
Fascinating.
that was my exact point above. Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?
He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level. When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it. It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.
Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't. Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season. We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.
if you are inclined, go dig up the Big 12 salaries from 2007 when Frank was hired. I bet the average salary was quite a bit lower than it is today.
Very good point MikeyCat. As a matter of fact, Frank's salary at the time of his hire was basically exactly average:
3/8/2007
This is money time in college basketball. Literally.
Sixty-five coaches will lead their teams into the NCAA Division I men's tournament next week, and one will emerge the first Monday in April with a celebratory strand of net and a national championship. Many more, if history holds, will cash in with new or considerably sweetened contracts.
The coaches of six of the tournament's Elite Eight teams a year ago parlayed their success into new deals for this season. They'd have gone 7-for-8, but Billy Donovan of national champion Florida chose to postpone a discussed extension.
Their raises were substantial. At the five schools where raises are public — George Mason, LSU, Memphis, Texas and UCLA — the coaches got a collective bump of about $1.7 million, or about $332,000 each when they extended their contracts. With those new agreements, and others, at least 20 of last year's 65 tournament coaches are making $1 million or more this season, a USA TODAY study finds. Kentucky's Tubby Smith is guaranteed nearly $2.1 million. Texas' Rick Barnes, Ohio State's Thad Matta and Michigan State's Tom Izzo all are pulling down more than $1.7 million.
USA TODAY obtained contracts or other documents detailing salaries for coaches at 58 of the 65 schools in the 2006 tournament field. Their average salary this season: nearly $800,000.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2007-03-08-coaches-salary-cover_N.htm
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A couple of things:
At a point towards the beginning of the season, Frank mentioned something to the effect that the contract talks were secondary to the practice facility, and he and the administration were focusing on that and would get a contract done in due time. I'm not sure how that plays into things at present, but I'm pretty sure the facility improvements are damn near dead in the water (which is pretty typical of KSU facility improvements). Maybe the "leaks" aren't just Franks camp, maybe Currie is in on it as well in an attempt to get some large cash outlays that can be used to fund both. "Pay up or the coach of your Top 10 team is gone" carries a lot more weight than "Pay up or your top 10 team will have to continue on with the same facilities".
We have no f'n idea what the "lowball" offer really was. If it was a the alleged 100K base increase, but with some ridiculous incentives (which seems likely when you have an AD wanting to cover his ass, fiscally speaking), maybe they aren't that far apart. 100K raise plus 100K for a top 4 Big 12 finish, 100K for a NCAA bid, (that's over a million there that would be attainable most years), plus more money for Big 12 championships and advancing in the NCAAs, they would have to be getting close. Don't think for a second that the donors close to the program, the guys who talk to Frank regularly (think Garth, et al), aren't in the loop on this from both sides, WAY moreso then J-Mart or Kietz. It will get done.
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Currie on KMAN right now.
Said he talks to Frank all the time, says he wants Frank here, and says Frank tells him he wants to be here . . . and that he'll do everything he can do to keep Frank here.
FWIW.
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The only FACT in this whole discussion is that nobody knows a damn thing about ADJC's and Frank Martin's discussions behind closed doors.
People are melting down because Keitzman has scared them into thinking Martin is leaving for another school.
Martin is treated like a king. Curry is building him a palace of a practice facility. The only missing piece of the puzzle is a contract between $1.25 - 1.5 million.
Personally, I have faith that Curry is not going to let this goldmine leave town. The guy comes from UT, for god's sake. He hired Bruce Pearl. If anybody knows how important basketball is and how to retain a coach, it's Curry. Martin might as well be Pearl's identical twin.
JFC! this fan base makes me sick sometimes.
Amen.
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Currie on KMAN right now.
Said he talks to Frank all the time, says he wants Frank here, and says Frank tells him he wants to be here . . . and that he'll do everything he can do to keep Frank here.
FWIW.
was he presented with a pointed question about the "it's not frank" rumors or was ADJC just generally musing?
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Did Currie say how much he wants to punch Keitz in the balls?
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My sources are telling me Frank Martin to UConn at the end of the season.
:users:
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My favorite posters in this thread are the people saying.
"Meh, let's just wait and see. Curry's got our back. He's our boy. Bruce Pearl. No one knows what's going on, so let's just let this play out before melting down...."
Hey d-bags! What we say/do &@#%ing matters! It is no coincidence that Frank references Octagon of Doom, that the University is shelling out Fear the Beard shirts and that Curry was out there doing damage control today. The entire premise of D1 football/basketball programs is to make &@#%ing money by charging fans &@#%ing money. Its ok you pussies, you get to have a &@#%ing opinion and if I were you I'd take a good long &@#%ing look at Old Balls, take a good long look at Frank and ask who the &@#% you want in your foxhole.
I don't know if you are unaware, but coaches also sometimes put these stories out there as a way to move the process forward. You know what kind of coaches do this? Coaches with &@#%ing leverage. Frank doesn't have a b-ball practice facility and Frank doesn't have a contract that matches his dick. Let's get Frank a contract that matches his dick. Because if he doesn't, then we can get us some Dana Altman dick or some Tim Jank dick, we may even get to hold and lick some Anthony Grant or Dalonte dick, but we are NOT getting Frank's dick to stick around. You have got to keep Frank's dick &@#%ing happy.
Also, take it from a guy who caught a rising star, lock the crap in early. When you aren't a 1%'r you don't stand there 'til 35 waiting for a proven winner, you take the young horse with speed that is putting things together.
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My favorite posters in this thread are the people saying.
"Meh, let's just wait and see. Curry's got our back. He's our boy. Bruce Pearl. No one knows what's going on, so let's just let this play out before melting down...."
Hey d-bags! What we say/do fracking matters! It is no coincidence that Frank references Octagon of Doom, that the University is shelling out Fear the Beard shirts and that Curry was out there doing damage control today. The entire premise of D1 football/basketball programs is to make fracking money by charging fans fracking money. Its ok you pussies, you get to have a fracking opinion and if I were you I'd take a good long fracking look at Old Balls, take a good long look at Frank and ask who the frack you want in your foxhole.
I don't know if you are unaware, but coaches also sometimes put these stories out there as a way to move the process forward. You know what kind of coaches do this? Coaches with fracking leverage. Frank doesn't have a b-ball practice facility and Frank doesn't have a contract that matches his dick. Let's get Frank a contract that matches his dick. Because if he doesn't, then we can get us some Dana Altman dick or some Tim Jank dick, we may even get to hold and lick some Anthony Grant or Dalonte dick, but we are NOT getting Frank's dick to stick around. You have got to keep Frank's dick fracking happy.
Also, take it from a guy who caught a rising star, lock the crap in early. When you aren't a 1%'r you don't stand there 'til 35 waiting for a proven winner, you take the young horse with speed that is putting things together.
:jerkoff: < frank's dick
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My sources are telling me Frank Martin to UConn at the end of the season.
:users:
My sources are telling me that you have no sources. And if you do, they're frustrated Kansas fans cleaning the EMAW paint off of the Jayhawk billboard on the Interstate.
:users:
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One last thought: I don't think any extension negotiation will have any bearing on whether or not he leaves. If there's a job somewhere he thinks he has a better chance of being successful, he's gone. That's why Huggins left - he knew it was easier to recruit WVU and they had a lot of experienced talent in place - it had nothing to do with Weiser. This is what Huggs should have done after he beat Durant - then Weiser becomes the villain instead of Huggs. Now, Frank is a good guy when he leaves, and we will hate Currie, thanks to Keitz.
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Frank doesn't have a b-ball practice facility and Frank doesn't have a contract that matches his dick. Let's get Frank a contract that matches his dick.
Thank you for this. It made my day.
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One last thought: I don't think any extension negotiation will have any bearing on whether or not he leaves. If there's a job somewhere he thinks he has a better chance of being successful, he's gone. That's why Huggins left - he knew it was easier to recruit WVU and they had a lot of experienced talent in place - it had nothing to do with Weiser. This is what Huggs should have done after he beat Durant - then Weiser becomes the villain instead of Huggs. Now, Frank is a good guy when he leaves, and we will hate Currie, thanks to Keitz.
maybe i am in the minority, but if currie gives martin a fair increase (w/ a basketball facility super promise) and then in two years when gary williams gets canned and martin leaves to go there i won't be mad at currie and i'll hate frank. i'll probablt hate any coach that leaves ksu after having success, except snyder.
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maybe i am in the minority, but if currie gives martin a fair increase (w/ a basketball facility super promise) and then in two years when gary williams gets canned and martin leaves to go there i won't be mad at currie and i'll hate frank. i'll probablt hate any coach that leaves ksu after having success, except snyder.
You are not in the minority - everyone will hate him in that situation, regardless. Look at ku fans post-Roy. They won a National Title and are still obsessed.
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maybe i am in the minority, but if currie gives martin a fair increase (w/ a basketball facility super promise) and then in two years when gary williams gets canned and martin leaves to go there i won't be mad at currie and i'll hate frank. i'll probablt hate any coach that leaves ksu after having success, except snyder.
You are not in the minority - everyone will hate him in that situation, regardless. Look at ku fans post-Roy. They won a National Title and are still obsessed.
and by hate i mean completely jealous that he is not our coach(wherever he ends up) and that we don't have sick facilities and tons of money and awesome tradition and aren't within 30 miles of elite talent year after year. bitter is prolly a better word.
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and by hate i mean completely jealous that he is not our coach(wherever he ends up) and that we don't have sick facilities and tons of money and awesome tradition and aren't within 30 miles of elite talent year after year. bitter is prolly a better word.
That's what it's really all about when someone leaves. The jilted school feels better about themselves by blaming the jilter(?) rather than recognizing the fact that they offer an inferior situation.
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One last thought: I don't think any extension negotiation will have any bearing on whether or not he leaves. If there's a job somewhere he thinks he has a better chance of being successful, he's gone. That's why Huggins left - he knew it was easier to recruit WVU and they had a lot of experienced talent in place - it had nothing to do with Weiser. This is what Huggs should have done after he beat Durant - then Weiser becomes the villain instead of Huggs. Now, Frank is a good guy when he leaves, and we will hate Currie, thanks to Keitz.
i agree, to a point. if he gets a great offer, he's gone, and there's nothing kstate can do about it. but he'll also leave to a worse job or an equal job for way more money. that is the event kstate has to prevent.
it is painfully obvious that most of you (those not agreeing with me) just don't follow college bball, and have no &@#%ing idea what the market for coaches is. whitlock, for example, is about on target with his 1.7 number. martin will absolutely get an offer in that range or higher if this season tracks as it has to date (round of 16 or 8). that's the market. he may not (probably won't) leave if the offer isn't a place where he feels he could sustain success, given that kstate should be at least as good next year as this. but he'll get bigger offers next year, and more of them. he's eventually gone.
look at people hired at high resource high majors last year, or those that had such offers and renegotiated and stayed. people with lesser and equal resumes got 1.5-2.0 pretty much across the board.
that doesn't mean kstate has to pay 1.7 to keep him. mu kept anderson for about 500k less than he was offered elsewhere. but anything under a million is a &@#%ing joke. and it was a &@#%ing joke before the season started too.
at the end of this season, the joke is going to start at 1.2 or 1.3. if not higher.
as daris is pointing out in every fifth post, to no avail: if martin wasn't insulted by his treatment to date, why did he have every media friend he has leak this? from every indication that we have available, kstate's ad has handled this about as poorly as can possibly be imagined.
which, honestly is not all that important, at least to me. whether kstate wants to &@#% around like amateurs and first underpay, and then overpay their caoch or wants to show some brains and balls sign him long-term to an appropriate contract as soon as they knew he was their guy ultimately doesn't impact me, or most other fans. as long as, a) they ultimately retain him, and b) i don't have to listen to you ignorant retards blather on about how kstate's ad hasn't acted like just as ignorant retards.
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My sources are telling me Frank Martin to UConn at the end of the season.
I've heard this as well. I'm also hearing ku, as an assistant.
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i agree, to a point. if he gets a great offer, he's gone, and there's nothing kstate can do about it. but he'll also leave to a worse job or an equal job for way more money. that is the event kstate has to prevent.
He won't leave for a worse job.
it is painfully obvious that most of you (those not agreeing with me) just don't follow college bball, and have no fracking idea what the market for coaches is. whitlock, for example, is about on target with his 1.7 number. martin will absolutely get an offer in that range or higher if this season tracks as it has to date (round of 16 or 8). that's the market. he may not (probably won't) leave if the offer isn't a place where he feels he could sustain success, given that kstate should be at least as good next year as this. but he'll get bigger offers next year, and more of them. he's eventually gone.
Yeah, assuming he gets to the sweet 16 or Elite 8, $1.7 is low, if anything.
look at people hired at high resource high majors last year, or those that had such offers and renegotiated and stayed. people with lesser and equal resumes got 1.5-2.0 pretty much across the board.
Who? I guess you could throw out Anthony Grant, but it could be argued he had a better resume. Travis Ford got overpaid. Sean Miller got $2.0, but at a much better job and was far more proven. Mark Fox (better resume, despite me hating him) got $1.3 million. Capel got 1.03 million after his season that equalled Martin's best. I think you're totally overvaluing Martin's performance after two seasons relative to what he actually accomplished on his own.
at the end of this season, the joke is going to start at 1.2 or 1.3. if not higher.
Agree 100%.
as daris is pointing out in every fifth post, to no avail: if martin wasn't insulted by his treatment to date, why did he have every media friend he has leak this? from every indication that we have available, kstate's ad has handled this about as poorly as can possibly be imagined.
If he was truly insulted, why didn't he leak it when the offer was extended? Oh yeah, because he wasn't really insulted and no one (but sys) would have given a sh*t. He leaked it at the absolute peak of his popularity, because that's when it's the most effective for what he wants.
which, honestly is not all that important, at least to me. whether kstate wants to frack around like amateurs and first underpay, and then overpay their caoch or wants to show some brains and balls sign him long-term to an appropriate contract as soon as they knew he was their guy ultimately doesn't impact me, or most other fans. as long as, a) they ultimately retain him, and b) i don't have to listen to you ignorant retards blather on about how kstate's ad hasn't acted like just as ignorant retards.
If you can't see why an AD wasn't 100% completely sold on Frank before this season, you're being an ignorant retard.
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i agree, to a point. if he gets a great offer, he's gone, and there's nothing kstate can do about it. but he'll also leave to a worse job or an equal job for way more money. that is the event kstate has to prevent.
He won't leave for a worse job.
it is painfully obvious that most of you (those not agreeing with me) just don't follow college bball, and have no fracking idea what the market for coaches is. whitlock, for example, is about on target with his 1.7 number. martin will absolutely get an offer in that range or higher if this season tracks as it has to date (round of 16 or 8). that's the market. he may not (probably won't) leave if the offer isn't a place where he feels he could sustain success, given that kstate should be at least as good next year as this. but he'll get bigger offers next year, and more of them. he's eventually gone.
Yeah, assuming he gets to the sweet 16 or Elite 8, $1.7 is low, if anything.
look at people hired at high resource high majors last year, or those that had such offers and renegotiated and stayed. people with lesser and equal resumes got 1.5-2.0 pretty much across the board.
Who? I guess you could throw out Anthony Grant, but it could be argued he had a better resume. Travis Ford got overpaid. Sean Miller got $2.0, but at a much better job and was far more proven. Mark Fox (better resume, despite me hating him) got $1.3 million. Capel got 1.03 million after his season that equalled Martin's best. I think you're totally overvaluing Martin's performance after two seasons relative to what he actually accomplished on his own.
at the end of this season, the joke is going to start at 1.2 or 1.3. if not higher.
Agree 100%.
as daris is pointing out in every fifth post, to no avail: if martin wasn't insulted by his treatment to date, why did he have every media friend he has leak this? from every indication that we have available, kstate's ad has handled this about as poorly as can possibly be imagined.
If he was truly insulted, why didn't he leak it when the offer was extended? Oh yeah, because he wasn't really insulted and no one (but sys) would have given a sh*t. He leaked it at the absolute peak of his popularity, because that's when it's the most effective for what he wants.
which, honestly is not all that important, at least to me. whether kstate wants to frack around like amateurs and first underpay, and then overpay their caoch or wants to show some brains and balls sign him long-term to an appropriate contract as soon as they knew he was their guy ultimately doesn't impact me, or most other fans. as long as, a) they ultimately retain him, and b) i don't have to listen to you ignorant retards blather on about how kstate's ad hasn't acted like just as ignorant retards.
If you can't see why an AD wasn't 100% completely sold on Frank before this season, you're being an ignorant retard.
This is hubris. The whole point of this is replacement cost. So Curry wants to save money, what in the &@#% makes you think you are going to get Frank for even 1.5x what you are paying him and 420k? Have you not borne witness to the cluster&@#% that is a Kansas State University nationwide search for anything? I like Shulz ok, I guess, but the process that lead to him wasn't exactly awe inspiring.
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This is hubris. The whole point of this is replacement cost. So Curry wants to save money, what in the frack makes you think you are going to get Frank for even 1.5x what you are paying him and 420k? Have you not borne witness to the clusterfrank that is a Kansas State University nationwide search for anything? I like Shulz ok, I guess, but the process that lead to him wasn't exactly awe inspiring.
Can you retype this or something? I honestly have no f*cking clue what you're talking about.
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If you can't see why an AD wasn't 100% completely sold on Frank before this season, you're being an ignorant retard.
i don't think the fans (myself included) were completely sold on frank. this was the season that was going to make or break being "sold" on him. even so, if the offer was made in august or september, that increase would still put him in the bottom 4, so I could see where frank would take offense to that. especially in light of giving brad hill, deb patterson, and bill snyder a raise. brad's done less than frank and is a not-for-profit sport (same with deb) and bill, gmafb. we clearly have raises budget for, obviously not for martin (or not enough).
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Honestly, I think 500K or so would do it. Frank seems to talk more and worry about his staff more than other coaches. If what Kietz said is remotely true it points to that as well. Frank was probably telling Currie that his assistants needed to be paid, so Currie offered 100K and divided it up. I'd say if you up that to 500K, 350K or so for Frank, then the rest divided up to the assistants, namely Undy and Figs, he'd stay and not even listen to bigger offers. Just get him to $1Mil or a little more and take care of his assistants, and I think Frank's loyalty deal kicks in real nice.
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Consider the AD's position here, and you should feel confident the deal will get done at a price that will keep Frank around for the forseeable future. I mean, if Frank leaves without having a competitive offer on the table, Currie is done. Career suicide. The big $$$ will revolt, he won't get the necessary funds for either the proposed facility or a reputable coach, and he'll be sent packing. The dude has no choice but to make this happen or go teach business at a community college somewhere. That, coupled with the fact that the support is there from both big $$$ and season ticket holders that will gladly re-up for a little more cash to keep the coach around, will make it happen.
If you buy Frank's loyalty to the fanbase and the university, it's tough to reconcile that he would go elsewhere for anything but an offer that is way out of scale, provided he is treated fairly, (see above). If you don't buy it, then he's gone at the end of this season regardless of what happens, and we shouldn't even be having this conversation.
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frank has literally all of the leverage here.
just pay the man.
because i want to be good in something when i'm in college and i'm not holding my breath for football being worth a damn.
so. adjc. don't piss me off.
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This is hubris. The whole point of this is replacement cost. So Curry wants to save money, what in the frack makes you think you are going to get Frank for even 1.5x what you are paying him and 420k? Have you not borne witness to the clusterfrank that is a Kansas State University nationwide search for anything? I like Shulz ok, I guess, but the process that lead to him wasn't exactly awe inspiring.
Can you retype this or something? I honestly have no f*cking clue what you're talking about.
DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT KANSAS STATE GETS TO PAY "FAIR MARKET VALUE" FOR EVEN UPPER SLTH'S LIKE FRANK?
ASSUMING THE RECRUITS WERE HALF WAY LEGIT AND THAT FRANK WAS GOING TO MATCH (NOT EXCEED) HIS RESULTS ON RECORD, WHO THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH THAT MATCHES THAT FOR THE SAME OR LESS THAT IS BEING TALKED ABOUT AS "KEEP FRANK" MONEY?
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Honestly, I think 500K or so would do it. Frank seems to talk more and worry about his staff more than other coaches. If what Kietz said is remotely true it points to that as well. Frank was probably telling Currie that his assistants needed to be paid, so Currie offered 100K and divided it up. I'd say if you up that to 500K, 350K or so for Frank, then the rest divided up to the assistants, namely Undy and Figs, he'd stay and not even listen to bigger offers. Just get him to $1Mil or a little more and take care of his assistants, and I think Frank's loyalty deal kicks in real nice.
Personally, I think if Frank is as loyal as a lot of people assume he is (and I have no reason to doubt otherwise), I'd agree with you.
The magic number starts with seven figures. If an initial offer was made below that, it was a pretty stupid offer.
In today's market, if you don't have a coach that you think is worth one million annually (at a bare minimum), you don't have a coach worth extending.
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If you can't see why an AD wasn't 100% completely sold on Frank before this season, you're being an ignorant retard.
i don't think the fans (myself included) were completely sold on frank. this was the season that was going to make or break being "sold" on him. even so, if the offer was made in august or september, that increase would still put him in the bottom 4, so I could see where frank would take offense to that. especially in light of giving brad hill, deb patterson, and bill snyder a raise. brad's done less than frank and is a not-for-profit sport (same with deb) and bill, gmafb. we clearly have raises budget for, obviously not for martin (or not enough).
First of all, who give a f*ck about Deb and baseballs contracts? They are small potatoes. I didn't know either one got an extension, and don't even know the baseball coach's name.
And I think the Snyder makes less than he made 8 years ago (don't know if he got a raise over his Krause contract). But jesus, he makes less than freaking Turner Gill. I hate Snyder as much as the next guy, but it isn't like he got some ridiculously lucrative deal and shouldn't be considered a f*ck you to Frank.
This is hubris. The whole point of this is replacement cost. So Curry wants to save money, what in the frack makes you think you are going to get Frank for even 1.5x what you are paying him and 420k? Have you not borne witness to the clusterfrank that is a Kansas State University nationwide search for anything? I like Shulz ok, I guess, but the process that lead to him wasn't exactly awe inspiring.
Can you retype this or something? I honestly have no f*cking clue what you're talking about.
DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT KANSAS STATE GETS TO PAY "FAIR MARKET VALUE" FOR EVEN UPPER SLTH'S LIKE FRANK?
ASSUMING THE RECRUITS WERE HALF WAY LEGIT AND THAT FRANK WAS GOING TO MATCH (NOT EXCEED) HIS RESULTS ON RECORD, WHO THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH THAT MATCHES THAT FOR THE SAME OR LESS THAT IS BEING TALKED ABOUT AS "KEEP FRANK" MONEY?
That makes more sense, thanks. I think you would definitely have to go with an "unknown". Which is pretty much exactly what Frank was until the WSU-XU-UNLV-UD stretch.
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Honestly, I think 500K or so would do it. Frank seems to talk more and worry about his staff more than other coaches. If what Kietz said is remotely true it points to that as well. Frank was probably telling Currie that his assistants needed to be paid, so Currie offered 100K and divided it up. I'd say if you up that to 500K, 350K or so for Frank, then the rest divided up to the assistants, namely Undy and Figs, he'd stay and not even listen to bigger offers. Just get him to $1Mil or a little more and take care of his assistants, and I think Frank's loyalty deal kicks in real nice.
Personally, I think if Frank is as loyal as a lot of people assume he is (and I have no reason to doubt otherwise), I'd agree with you.
The magic number starts with seven figures. If an initial offer was made below that, it was a pretty stupid offer.
In today's market, if you don't have a coach that you think is worth one million annually (at a bare minimum), you don't have a coach worth extending.
which brings back to the whole "if you weren't going to make him a serious offer or enter into serious negotiatins, than why the f^ck did you even bother."
i mean seriously. john currie with his ridiculous haircut and tie comes walking in like leave it to f^cking beaver and then says something like "hey frank. nice to meet you. i'm johnathan currie. here's a new contract with a percentage raise similar to what bill and deb got and whatever the baseball coaches name is got. you're welcome. sign here."
pretty ridiculous. frank's prob had to deal his whole life with people thinking he's dumber than he is and repeatedly having to prove and then reprove himself and then our new khaki pants w/ braided belt dipcrap AD walks in with a cost of living increase like it's some kind of f^cking bozo the clown grandprize game schwinn bicycle and 20 dollar bill. insulting. i'd want to get out as soon as possible just so i could stick it to the a$$clown.
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My favorite posters are all melting down over rumors, and they are of course all pi$$y because some reasonable people want to let it play out and see what happens . . . and they assume that the reasonable people won't be extremely :mad: if the season continues as it's going now and John Currie doesn't get Frank locked down with a proper contract and compensation.
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If you can't see why an AD wasn't 100% completely sold on Frank before this season, you're being an ignorant retard.
i don't think the fans (myself included) were completely sold on frank. this was the season that was going to make or break being "sold" on him. even so, if the offer was made in august or september, that increase would still put him in the bottom 4, so I could see where frank would take offense to that. especially in light of giving brad hill, deb patterson, and bill snyder a raise. brad's done less than frank and is a not-for-profit sport (same with deb) and bill, gmafb. we clearly have raises budget for, obviously not for martin (or not enough).
First of all, who give a f*ck about Deb and baseballs contracts? They are small potatoes. I didn't know either one got an extension, and don't even know the baseball coach's name.
And I think the Snyder makes less than he made 8 years ago (don't know if he got a raise over his Krause contract). But jesus, he makes less than freaking Turner Gill. I hate Snyder as much as the next guy, but it isn't like he got some ridiculously lucrative deal and shouldn't be considered a f*ck you to Frank.
in relation to contract extensions/raises, if you're giving them out to others, especially those that are in non-profit sports, it's a slap in the face to the guy who's bringing in a million dollars of profit last year. regardless if they just got $1 more.
ku overpaying for gill isn't ksu's problem. snyder was getting 1.58 in 2004 http://cjonline.com/stories/092804/bre_snyder.shtml (http://cjonline.com/stories/092804/bre_snyder.shtml).
so we agreed to snyder's contract/extension/raise in september (so we had to have f'ing budgeted for that) yet we don't have anything for frank? currie just thought "ya know, we're going to be dogcrap this year in basketball, so we won't need to do anything for frank". hell, I wasn't completely sold, but (before the season...and before fort hays, lol) I thought we'd be in the top 6, if we did well, top 4 again. but we'd continue to pay him like he's greg f'ing mcdermott?
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My favorite posters are all melting down over rumors, and they are of course all pi$$y because some reasonable people want to let it play out and see what happens . . . and they assume that the reasonable people won't be extremely :mad: if the season continues as it's going now and John Currie doesn't get Frank locked down with a proper contract and compensation.
dax, honestly I don't think your take on this is super unreasonable.
I'll even say I'm encouraged by this, its not like Currie has come out and said "we'll sit down after the season and look at where we are and see if we need to look at Frank's current contract". Its clear he and Frank's people are currently talking about it, so its in the works. And even if he did make a low-ball offer, at least he made an offer. I do think he does have some of your line of thinking (and I don't think it would necessarily bother Frank) that he's going to take his time, but at least talks are ongoing. That way if the season does keep going and in a couple weeks we are sitting at 7-3 or something with a home win over ku, it will be easier to move it along and get it done.
I will agree that there has been some over-reaction here, but I pretty much expect that.
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If you can't see why an AD wasn't 100% completely sold on Frank before this season, you're being an ignorant retard.
i don't think the fans (myself included) were completely sold on frank. this was the season that was going to make or break being "sold" on him. even so, if the offer was made in august or september, that increase would still put him in the bottom 4, so I could see where frank would take offense to that. especially in light of giving brad hill, deb patterson, and bill snyder a raise. brad's done less than frank and is a not-for-profit sport (same with deb) and bill, gmafb. we clearly have raises budget for, obviously not for martin (or not enough).
First of all, who give a f*ck about Deb and baseballs contracts? They are small potatoes. I didn't know either one got an extension, and don't even know the baseball coach's name.
And I think the Snyder makes less than he made 8 years ago (don't know if he got a raise over his Krause contract). But jesus, he makes less than freaking Turner Gill. I hate Snyder as much as the next guy, but it isn't like he got some ridiculously lucrative deal and shouldn't be considered a f*ck you to Frank.
This is hubris. The whole point of this is replacement cost. So Curry wants to save money, what in the frack makes you think you are going to get Frank for even 1.5x what you are paying him and 420k? Have you not borne witness to the clusterfrank that is a Kansas State University nationwide search for anything? I like Shulz ok, I guess, but the process that lead to him wasn't exactly awe inspiring.
Can you retype this or something? I honestly have no f*cking clue what you're talking about.
DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT KANSAS STATE GETS TO PAY "FAIR MARKET VALUE" FOR EVEN UPPER SLTH'S LIKE FRANK?
ASSUMING THE RECRUITS WERE HALF WAY LEGIT AND THAT FRANK WAS GOING TO MATCH (NOT EXCEED) HIS RESULTS ON RECORD, WHO THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH THAT MATCHES THAT FOR THE SAME OR LESS THAT IS BEING TALKED ABOUT AS "KEEP FRANK" MONEY?
That makes more sense, thanks. I think you would definitely have to go with an "unknown". Which is pretty much exactly what Frank was until the WSU-XU-UNLV-UD stretch.
you may not have known that a bunch or coaches got raises and contract extensions cause you live in michigan and pick apples and listen to music all day and probably don't have cable, but guess what? those other people are coaches in sports at the same school frank is a coach at. pretty sure he knew.
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I also say that if there's any truth to Currie "wanting his own guy" in light of where the program is now, than he's just not a very smart guy. Any smart AD only wants "his own guy" when things are going badly.
Plus, I can't for the life of me think of who that would be, outside of some massive SLTH types . . . and if that happens I'll be the first to call for Currie's resignation.
I've tried to contemplate how any of that could even be remotely true. . . and the only thing I can think of is Currie might not like Frank's style . . . but there's nothing about Frank that isn't 100% EMAW.
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I also say that if there's any truth to Currie "wanting his own guy" in light of where the program is now, than he's just not a very smart guy. Any smart AD only wants "his own guy" when things are going badly.
Plus, I can't for the life of me think of who that would be, outside of some massive SLTH types . . . and if that happens I'll be the first to call for Currie's resignation.
I've tried to contemplate how any of that could even be remotely true. . . and the only thing I can think of is Currie might not like Frank's style . . . but there's nothing about Frank that isn't 100% EMAW.
I think the "Curry wanting his own guy" talk is just inference, and bad inference at that. I think this is all about how much we can pay Frank and when Currie can/wants to get it done.
And I think Kietz has blown this up bigger than it is, but that's why he's the best.
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And even if he did make a low-ball offer, at least he made an offer.
no. just flat out no. you are incredibly wrong here.
ex.-i know someone who is thinking about selling their house. i decide to call them before they get a realtor. i offer them 85,000 dollars for their 150,000 dollar house. they hang up the phone and go "jesus f^cking christ honey. daris from down the block just offered us 85,000. what a douche. i told him we'd think about it though. what's that realtors number again?"
it is insulting if they offered him that. do you honestly think that offering him an extra 40,000 two months ago was a good thing to do?
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Dan Lykins (State alum, KS board of regents member) posted on gpc that frank will be coaching at k-state in 2025. He gets some pretty elite level access to the program :gocho:. Just trying to calm the waters some.
Look for a 15 year extension I guess.
:bballonlyfan: :kstatriot: :bballonlyfan:
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it is insulting if they offered him that. do you honestly think that offering him an extra 40,000 two months ago was a good thing to do?
No, but it beats the "Martin already has a contract and we will look at where he's at after the season" approach that Weiser would have taken.
And I think it was probably qualified. I think it was informal. I think it was more "Frank, I'd like to redo your deal and take care of your assistants and this is what I can do...." type of deal. I really think Kietz has blown it up to be a bigger deal than it probably is.
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My favorite posters are all melting down over rumors, and they are of course all pi$$y because some reasonable people want to let it play out and see what happens . . . and they assume that the reasonable people won't be extremely :mad: if the season continues as it's going now and John Currie doesn't get Frank locked down with a proper contract and compensation.
you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. get out of our way.
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I apologize if this is a repost, but I am very nervous about Frank staying in Manhattan even past this year without a big payday. The main reason I worry is the University of Miami. Not only is it home for him and would be the ultimate vindication for the way he was run out of Miami Senior High, but they have lost three straight in the ACC and have yet to play a ranked opponent in the ACC. And oh, by the way, the U of M AD may know a thing or two about Frank Martin and what he has done at K-State because it is Kirby Freaking Hocutt.
I am planning on making my first ever donation to the Ahearn Fund this week and as soon as I do I will write an email to Currie and Schultz letting them know if they do not sign Frank to an extension with big $, it will be my last. I know my 3-figure donation doesn't mean a lot in the grand scheme of things, but I have to let my voice be heard.
:kstatriot:
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in relation to contract extensions/raises, if you're giving them out to others, especially those that are in non-profit sports, it's a slap in the face to the guy who's bringing in a million dollars of profit last year. regardless if they just got $1 more.
Not really.
ku overpaying for gill isn't ksu's problem. snyder was getting 1.58 in 2004 http://cjonline.com/stories/092804/bre_snyder.shtml (http://cjonline.com/stories/092804/bre_snyder.shtml).
I was mistaken - I thought he made $2 million back in the day. Still, he's in the bottom half of the league today. Which is fair, and shouldn't be insulting to anyone.
so we agreed to snyder's contract/extension/raise in september (so we had to have f'ing budgeted for that) yet we don't have anything for frank? currie just thought "ya know, we're going to be dogcrap this year in basketball, so we won't need to do anything for frank". hell, I wasn't completely sold, but (before the season...and before fort hays, lol) I thought we'd be in the top 6, if we did well, top 4 again. but we'd continue to pay him like he's greg f'ing mcdermott?
HE WAS OFFERED A RAISE! JFC, just because it was under a million (which is all I believe, LMAO if you believe anything Keitz is saying) doesn't mean it wasn't serious. And there was nothing to convince me that we were some sort of lock for top 6.
And even if he did make a low-ball offer, at least he made an offer.
no. just flat out no. you are incredibly wrong here.
ex.-i know someone who is thinking about selling their house. i decide to call them before they get a realtor. i offer them 85,000 dollars for their 150,000 dollar house. they hang up the phone and go "jesus f^cking christ honey. daris from down the block just offered us 85,000. what a douche. i told him we'd think about it though. what's that realtors number again?"
it is insulting if they offered him that. do you honestly think that offering him an extra 40,000 two months ago was a good thing to do?
LOL @ meltdowns based on Keitz facts. :lol:
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I also say that if there's any truth to Currie "wanting his own guy" in light of where the program is now, than he's just not a very smart guy. Any smart AD only wants "his own guy" when things are going badly.
Plus, I can't for the life of me think of who that would be, outside of some massive SLTH types . . . and if that happens I'll be the first to call for Currie's resignation.
I've tried to contemplate how any of that could even be remotely true. . . and the only thing I can think of is Currie might not like Frank's style . . . but there's nothing about Frank that isn't 100% EMAW.
I think the "Curry wanting his own guy" talk is just inference, and bad inference at that. I think this is all about how much we can pay Frank and when Currie can/wants to get it done.
And I think Kietz has blown this up bigger than it is, but that's why he's the best.
I've had my glass of red with dinner and calmed some and let me just say the following:
I KNOW Kietz has blown this up bigger than it is. I KNOW I am blowing this up bigger than it is. There is a reason for that, I want this crap done and I want the pressure on Currie to do so. I won't pretend Kietz has the same pious calculus in the matter, but I appreciate the net effect.
I could give two craps if Currie has handled these negotiations masterfully and Frank is making some crude power play for more money. I would rather have an overpaid, happy Frank than an unhappy Frank; impending coaching search or not. I don't care if Currie is "doing his job" he is not to be &@#%ing trusted.
Currie is to be controlled and have his feet to the fire at all times. The more he knows he is a replaceable crap, the more motivated he will be to leave a legacy.
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I've had my glass of red with dinner and calmed some and let me just say the following:
I KNOW Kietz has blown this up bigger than it is. I KNOW I am blowing this up bigger than it is. There is a reason for that, I want this crap done and I want the pressure on Currie to do so. I won't pretend Kietz has the same pious calculus in the matter, but I appreciate the net effect.
I could give two craps if Currie has handled these negotiations masterfully and Frank is making some crude power play for more money. I would rather have an overpaid, happy Frank than an unhappy Frank; impending coaching search or not. I don't care if Currie is "doing his job" he is not to be fracking trusted.
Currie is to be controlled and have his feet to the fire at all times. The more he knows he is a replaceable crap, the more motivated he will be to leave a legacy.
Red. Nice.
I pretty much agree with what you said. And I think in many ways Kietz as a K-State fan used his platform to get this done. Bravo to Kietz for doing so.
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Bottom line: IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is. That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.
But I don't buy it. I don't think Frank leaked this. Whether this was a story some knew about and decided to blow up in the wake of the Texas game, or someone in the AD's office told someone I don't know. But the Frank Martin I've seen for the last 3 years is always intently focused on the task at hand. I have heard him say during interviews when people have asked him about upcoming big games that he is looking at the next game, nothing more. I can't imagine that in a week when he got no sleep between the CU and UT games that the notion of quibbling over his contract mid-season ever entered his mind.
So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here. A single source. While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.
To get all bent out of shape over a contract that isn't your own, over a supposed lowball offer that seems based on previous reports to date back to preseason or early in the non-con, with terms that are unvalidated, is asinine. Has it occured to anyone that perhaps this preseason offer was a gesture by Curry to say, "hey, I just got here, and I see you've got a contract for $760k and I think that's a little low....here's some more, and we'll talk again after the season"?
Frank will get a raise in due time. And that time is after the season when he has the time to focus on it and not let it interfere with his team's preparation for games. If that means he's won the Big 12 or won some tourney games, then that means we may have to pay him a little more, but by everyone's standards, then he'd be worth it. If come then KSU has gone on losing skid, and Frank settles for 900k, so be it.
Now is NOT the time.
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Frank will get a raise in due time. And that time is after the season
nope. Needs to be done now.
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I hate Snyder as much as the next guy,
:)
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Bottom line: IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is. That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.
But I don't buy it. I don't think Frank leaked this. Whether this was a story some knew about and decided to blow up in the wake of the Texas game, or someone in the AD's office told someone I don't know. But the Frank Martin I've seen for the last 3 years is always intently focused on the task at hand. I have heard him say during interviews when people have asked him about upcoming big games that he is looking at the next game, nothing more. I can't imagine that in a week when he got no sleep between the CU and UT games that the notion of quibbling over his contract mid-season ever entered his mind.
So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here. A single source. While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.
To get all bent out of shape over a contract that isn't your own, over a supposed lowball offer that seems based on previous reports to date back to preseason or early in the non-con, with terms that are unvalidated, is asinine.
Frank will get a raise in due time. And that time is after the season when he has the time to focus on it and not let it interfere with his team's preparation for games. If that means he's won the Big 12 or won some tourney games, then that means we may have to pay him a little more, but by everyone's standards, then he'd be worth it. If come then KSU has gone on losing skid, and Frank settles for 900k, so be it.
Now is NOT the time.
You're kind of being an idiot. I mean we've tried to help you out here and you can either choose to reflect on it, read up a little before posting again, or you can pretty much just gtfoomf and plan on some serious, personal ridicule.
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Bottom line: IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is. That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.
But I don't buy it. I don't think Frank leaked this. Whether this was a story some knew about and decided to blow up in the wake of the Texas game, or someone in the AD's office told someone I don't know. But the Frank Martin I've seen for the last 3 years is always intently focused on the task at hand. I have heard him say during interviews when people have asked him about upcoming big games that he is looking at the next game, nothing more. I can't imagine that in a week when he got no sleep between the CU and UT games that the notion of quibbling over his contract mid-season ever entered his mind.
So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here. A single source. While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.
To get all bent out of shape over a contract that isn't your own, over a supposed lowball offer that seems based on previous reports to date back to preseason or early in the non-con, with terms that are unvalidated, is asinine.
Frank will get a raise in due time. And that time is after the season when he has the time to focus on it and not let it interfere with his team's preparation for games. If that means he's won the Big 12 or won some tourney games, then that means we may have to pay him a little more, but by everyone's standards, then he'd be worth it. If come then KSU has gone on losing skid, and Frank settles for 900k, so be it.
Now is NOT the time.
You're kind of being an idiot. I mean we've tried to help you out here and you can either choose to reflect on it, read up a little before posting again, or you can pretty much just gtfoomf and plan on some serious, personal ridicule.
oh by all means little 12yo douchebag, enlighten me. You nor I nor anyone on this fracking board know the details of this. If you dumbfracks haven't learned over the last 10 years to take anything Kietzman says with a grain of salt, then you're even stupider than I thought.
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Bottom line: IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is. That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.
:rolleyes:
Seriously, why are people even remotely defending jon currie? that tard has done NOTHING. he has zero track record. I'm guessing it has everything to do with the fact he's white, good looking, and speaks well.
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Bottom line: IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is. That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.
:rolleyes:
Seriously, why are people even remotely defending jon currie? that tard has done NOTHING. he has zero track record. I'm guessing it has everything to do with the fact he's white, good looking, and speaks well.
Seriously? What world do you live in? The man has been here a FEW MONTHS and I for one think he's done a decent job at bringing new life into the department. The promotions and perks being offered are far above what Wieser and Krause were doing. I think it's refreshing and has helped a great deal. Fans wanted cheaper tickets, they got them. Fans wanted more transparency, they got it. Fans wanted a Beard Out, they got it.
I know most of you are still college kids, but grow the &@#% up.
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The promotions and perks being offered are far above what Wieser and Krause were doing. I think it's refreshing and has helped a great deal. Fans wanted cheaper tickets, they got them. Fans wanted more transparency, they got it. Fans wanted a Beard Out, they got it.
:lol:
Seriously? That's it. A beard out?
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The promotions and perks being offered are far above what Wieser and Krause were doing. I think it's refreshing and has helped a great deal. Fans wanted cheaper tickets, they got them. Fans wanted more transparency, they got it. Fans wanted a Beard Out, they got it.
:lol:
Seriously? That's it. A beard out?
hey, you guys are the one's that came up with it.
BTW, how much do YOU contribute to the Ahearn Fund?
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So...bluster, bluster, bluster. Who here can devise a practical solution to this problem (i.e., forcing Currie's hand) by setting up an online grassroots fund raising campaign? There must be a tool out there on the interwebs that allows people to make pledges contingent upon certain events (like a coach getting a raise and contract extension) taking place. This tool should have a fun little meter in bright colors that makes it very clear how big John/Jon Currie's "give-Frank-a-raise" check will be if he pulls the trigger. Make it so!
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it is insulting if they offered him that. do you honestly think that offering him an extra 40,000 two months ago was a good thing to do?
No, but it beats the "Martin already has a contract and we will look at where he's at after the season" approach that Weiser would have taken.
And I think it was probably qualified. I think it was informal. I think it was more "Frank, I'd like to redo your deal and take care of your assistants and this is what I can do...." type of deal. I really think Kietz has blown it up to be a bigger deal than it probably is.
_fan, you know i love you, but you are completely wrong on this, and daris is completely right. there are a lot of reasons to offer to renegotiate with a coach expected to garner better offers in the future, but they all are essentially variations on making the coach so happy and appreciative with his current situ that he isn't interested in listening to other offers, and other parties (be they recruits or ads) perceive him to be unlikely to listen to other offers.
extending a lowball offer is completely retarded because it accomplishes none of that. it actually does the opposite. it projects to other ads that kstate is cheap and/or poor and can be outbid. it tells the coach that either the school employing him values him no more than any other random coach with the same resume, or they're trying to screw him.
if you aren't going to offer the coach something that makes him feel particularly appreciated and valued, there is no point in renegotiating. just make verbally stroke the coach, tell him you will never be outbid and save up to beat any offers he eventually gets.
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Bottom line: IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is. That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.
But I don't buy it. I don't think Frank leaked this. Whether this was a story some knew about and decided to blow up in the wake of the Texas game, or someone in the AD's office told someone I don't know. But the Frank Martin I've seen for the last 3 years is always intently focused on the task at hand. I have heard him say during interviews when people have asked him about upcoming big games that he is looking at the next game, nothing more. I can't imagine that in a week when he got no sleep between the CU and UT games that the notion of quibbling over his contract mid-season ever entered his mind.
So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here. A single source. While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.
To get all bent out of shape over a contract that isn't your own, over a supposed lowball offer that seems based on previous reports to date back to preseason or early in the non-con, with terms that are unvalidated, is asinine. Has it occured to anyone that perhaps this preseason offer was a gesture by Curry to say, "hey, I just got here, and I see you've got a contract for $760k and I think that's a little low....here's some more, and we'll talk again after the season"?
Frank will get a raise in due time. And that time is after the season when he has the time to focus on it and not let it interfere with his team's preparation for games. If that means he's won the Big 12 or won some tourney games, then that means we may have to pay him a little more, but by everyone's standards, then he'd be worth it. If come then KSU has gone on losing skid, and Frank settles for 900k, so be it.
Now is NOT the time.
Both Frank and Jmart have motivation for this to come out now. Either motivation could be reason. Jmart is MUCH more connected than you think. Accodring to Occam's Razor the simplest answer is the most likely one. The simplest answer if that the athletic department is &@#%ing this up.
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_fan, you know i love you, but you are completely wrong on this, and daris is completely right. there are a lot of reasons to offer to renegotiate with a coach expected to garner better offers in the future, but they all are essentially variations on making the coach so happy and appreciative with his current situ that he isn't interested in listening to other offers, and other parties (be they recruits or ads) perceive him to be unlikely to listen to other offers.
extending a lowball offer is completely retarded because it accomplishes none of that. it actually does the opposite. it projects to other ads that kstate is cheap and/or poor and can be outbid. it tells the coach that either the school employing him values him no more than any other random coach with the same resume, or they're trying to screw him.
if you aren't going to offer the coach something that makes him feel particularly appreciated and valued, there is no point in renegotiating. just make verbally stroke the coach, tell him you will never be outbid and save up to beat any offers he eventually gets.
Can't disagree with any of that. I think it was a bad move to make the offer like he did, even if it was before the season. Perhaps Currie was just thinking that getting it up to 800K would "look better". Even so, an ill-advise move. Good points there.
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Frank: $1.76-$2m base
'Te: $575k base
Everyone else: 20% raise (40% for Greenawalt)
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Bottom line: IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is. That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.
:rolleyes:
Seriously, why are people even remotely defending jon currie? that tard has done NOTHING. he has zero track record. I'm guessing it has everything to do with the fact he's white, good looking, and speaks well.
I'm not weighing in on the Frank thing because my $$ does the talking on that issue, but I do have to say mr. Currie doesn;t speak all that well. Seen him multiuple times and he has not impressed.
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Is it possible that Frank realizes he will get an offer and is more focused on his the team then a new contract? Therefore the contract talks aren't happening right now. He's obviously a confident person and probably knows he's going to get paid. If I'm in his position and know what this team is capable of, I'm not talking until we win the Big 12, beat ku, make it to an elite 8, etc. If he does this now he's leaving money on the table. JMO
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Mikeycat sounds mean to me. :'(
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Frank: $1.76-$2m base
'Te: $575k base
Everyone else: 20% raise (40% for Greenawalt)
I think Te already makes an enormous salary. We could round it to 500k without pissing me off, but we could also use the money for Greenawalt or Figger.
I think 1.5 to frank with the explaination that the other half a mill is going to help break ground on his practice facility.
Is it possible that Frank realizes he will get an offer and is more focused on his the team then a new contract? Therefore the contract talks aren't happening right now. He's obviously a confident person and probably knows he's going to get paid. If I'm in his position and know what this team is capable of, I'm not talking until we win the Big 12, beat ku, make it to an elite 8, etc. If he does this now he's leaving money on the table. JMO
Jmart probably did not pull this from nowhere so no your dream scenario where Frank is doing this for free for the good ole folk of Kansas is not possible.
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Let's not be crazy here. We just need to make Frank is in the upper 3rd of the this league. 1.7-2.0 mil is a bit much at this point.
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Good to see so many finally waking up to the reality of our situation with totally small time AD. Now do you understand why moving to the Mountain West is the way to go?
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Frank: $1.76-$2m base
'Te: $575k base
Everyone else: 20% raise (40% for Greenawalt)
Uhhh.. yeah. we'll see. that's a lot of coin. 1.5 is fair for Frank. He's been great thus far, but his tenure has been short. 'Te is already the highest paid assistant in the country and, for all intents and purposes, he does zero coaching. I have no idea what Brad and Figgers make, but at the same time, I don't really care. They're assistants. Greenawalt (40%?) Seriously?
You must be really good at Monopoly.
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I think that incentive-laden contracts are out as there are crazy-ass schools who will dish out the coin (ND football) on a gamble. I have been calling for Frank to be locked down since last yr - I just like his freaking no BS attitude and I thought he was a lot like Huggs in his coaching style which is appealing to me. Pay the dude where he is inline with the Mike Andersons of the world and throw some bonus at him for Big 12 tourney and NCAA tourney success and be done with it.
Daris, GREAT MF point with the slap in the face thing.
One last shout out, I have been anticipating another one of Kat Kid's meltdowns for a while - NEVER do they disappoint! Love you man!
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_fan, you know i love you, but you are completely wrong on this, and daris is completely right. there are a lot of reasons to offer to renegotiate with a coach expected to garner better offers in the future, but they all are essentially variations on making the coach so happy and appreciative with his current situ that he isn't interested in listening to other offers, and other parties (be they recruits or ads) perceive him to be unlikely to listen to other offers.
extending a lowball offer is completely retarded because it accomplishes none of that. it actually does the opposite. it projects to other ads that kstate is cheap and/or poor and can be outbid. it tells the coach that either the school employing him values him no more than any other random coach with the same resume, or they're trying to screw him.
if you aren't going to offer the coach something that makes him feel particularly appreciated and valued, there is no point in renegotiating. just make verbally stroke the coach, tell him you will never be outbid and save up to beat any offers he eventually gets.
Before the season, what would be your cutoff between insulting offer and non-insulting offer as a starting point in negotiations?
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Frank will get his raise, and he will be one of the top 4 paid coaches in the league. I doubt there will be a raise for 'Te, and it isn't really warranted. I would bet that our other assistants recieve slight raises though.
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what would be your cutoff between insulting offer and non-insulting offer as a starting point in negotiations?
I heard we will be offering 6 million a year for 27 years. It will be the largest coaching contract in the history of sports.
Discuss.
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Decourcy's podcast on 810 is a must listen for many of you.
http://www.810whb.com/podcasts (http://www.810whb.com/podcasts)
The Martin contract discussion starts at 8:19. (Not sure if a re-post, but it belongs in this thread anyway.)
On whether or not there is an issue:
"It's there. It's legitimate. The people who are talking about it are on the money. They are right. They are in the absolute correct ballpark. I mean it is an issue."
On timing of the extension:
"Why wait (until the end of the season)? What do you need to see? You know that he's done an effective job. You know that the longer it goes on, the more of a hassle it becomes, so why wait?"
"If you need to see results in the NCAA tournament to know whether or not Frank Martin is the right coach for your job, then you aren't effective enough at what you do. Now I don't think that of the K-State people....."
If you need to see the results on the floor, then you don't know how to evaluate."
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Before the season, what would be your cutoff between insulting offer and non-insulting offer as a starting point in negotiations?
i put it in my "you're all &@#%ing retards" rant. 1 million.
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Before the season, what would be your cutoff between insulting offer and non-insulting offer as a starting point in negotiations?
i put it in my "you're all fracking retards" rant. 1 million.
$1 million is legitimate, $900k is insulting?
GMAFB
:flush:
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Let's not be crazy here. We just need to make Frank is in the upper 3rd of the this league. 1.7-2.0 mil is a bit much at this point.
def. agree. kstate doesn't have to match his best offer or best potential offer.
and the assts don't need anything. they only get raises if martin wants them to have more money more than he wants his kids to have more money.
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$1 million is legitimate, $900k is insulting?
GMAFB
:flush:
[/quote
give me a &@#%ing straw man. you asked for a &@#%ing min. non-insulting offer. if you accept the starting point, by definition $999999 is an insult.
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It was a pretty good straw man, as it really exposes a flaw in your argument - you should have answered:
"I don't know any of the details, timing, or context an offer was presented, so I can't fairly give you a figure that would not be insulting. Therefore, my entire argument is sh*t. I now see the error of my ways and the fact that my hatred of capital letters is ridiculous. kudos for the enlightenment, michigancat."
hth
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This thread should be up there with the recruiting info, full of insight and opinions. Maybe with the title, M.A.F.I.A Boss look'n for a raise
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Let's not be crazy here. We just need to make Frank is in the upper 3rd of the this league. 1.7-2.0 mil is a bit much at this point.
If I were Currie, assuming the money is there, I'd have started at 1.1 with raises to my staff (with the exception of Dalonte).
Frank gets to seven figures, bumps his staff up a bit, and we say that we're putting the rest towards groundbreaking the facility. Then promise that after this whole Prince thing gets cleaned up in a few years (assuming that's the case) and we can generate some more revenue, we'll look at extending again.
But my main point is that the initial offer should have probably started at more than one million. If it was less, we're in much worse financial shape than I thought, or John Currie learned how to negotiate from a really bad book about buying a used car.
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It was a pretty good straw man, as it really exposes a flaw in your argument - you should have answered:
"I don't know any of the details, timing, or context an offer was presented, so I can't fairly give you a figure that would not be insulting. Therefore, my entire argument is sh*t. I now see the error of my ways and the fact that my hatred of capital letters is ridiculous. kudos for the enlightenment, michigancat."
hth
you cannot be &@#%ing serious. your argument is seriously: "you pick a number and i can pick a number that is slightly higher or lower and my new number will not be dramatically different than your original number"?
jfc, dude. jfc.
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initially i overeacted to this news (not on here though) but the more i think about it the more I think that ADJC was just redoing the contract so that it was a contract done under his admin with his stamp on it and his own wording. I dont think ADJC wanted to mess with the actual $$ at that point (and as many have pointed out, Frank still had a lot to prove after only 2 yrs). I mean, it would seem to fit with what he did with Snyder (and to a lesser extent Patterson and Hill though I dont really know much about their contracts other than i'm sure Hill deserved somewhat of a raise).
the lowball offer I dont think was meant as a longterm solution if Frank ended up being really successful. I fully believe Currie would have or will up Martin's deal if we end up with a super season whether Martin took the lowball offer or not. I'm starting to think maybe the Martin camp has taken this the wrong way or else there is some serious disconnect in how the 2 sides are communicating.
only at KSU though could something like this get way overblown. I'm now in the camp of saving my meltdown for if/when Frank leaves.
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Anything under $1.6m is totally insulting and you tards know it. If boring Barnes and criminal Anderson are at $2m, Frank needs to be at or near that amount.
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http://cjonline.com/sports/basketball/2010-01-20/currie_qa_whats_next_for_martin
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It was a pretty good straw man, as it really exposes a flaw in your argument - you should have answered:
"I don't know any of the details, timing, or context an offer was presented, so I can't fairly give you a figure that would not be insulting. Therefore, my entire argument is sh*t. I now see the error of my ways and the fact that my hatred of capital letters is ridiculous. kudos for the enlightenment, michigancat."
hth
you cannot be fracking serious. your argument is seriously: "you pick a number and i can pick a number that is slightly higher or lower and my new number will not be dramatically different than your original number"?
jfc, dude. jfc.
No, if you would have thrown out something like $1.4 as an initial offer, I would have called you a retard for starting the negotiations way to high, regardless of any other details. If you would have picked $1.1 or $1.2, I'm not sure how I would have handled it. I just don't think $1 million is far enough away from whatever mystical number he was offered to clearly be non-insulting without knowing any other details.
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http://cjonline.com/sports/basketball/2010-01-20/currie_qa_whats_next_for_martin
:sleep:
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initially i overeacted to this news (not on here though) but the more i think about it the more I think that ADJC was just redoing the contract so that it was a contract done under his admin with his stamp on it and his own wording. I dont think ADJC wanted to mess with the actual $$ at that point (and as many have pointed out, Frank still had a lot to prove after only 2 yrs). I mean, it would seem to fit with what he did with Snyder (and to a lesser extent Patterson and Hill though I dont really know much about their contracts other than i'm sure Hill deserved somewhat of a raise).
the lowball offer I dont think was meant as a longterm solution if Frank ended up being really successful. I fully believe Currie would have or will up Martin's deal if we end up with a super season whether Martin took the lowball offer or not. I'm starting to think maybe the Martin camp has taken this the wrong way or else there is some serious disconnect in how the 2 sides are communicating.
only at KSU though could something like this get way overblown. I'm now in the camp of saving my meltdown for if/when Frank leaves.
Get it ready then. Why would Martin agree to a lowball offer and put his faith that 1.5mil is going to come when he'd have to pay a buyout to leave if it did not?
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http://cjonline.com/sports/basketball/2010-01-20/currie_qa_whats_next_for_martin
Currie used a lot of words in that interview to not say much at all.
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http://www.1350kman.com/news/?cat=12
Currie on 1350's The Game
Key points,
1. He thinks Frank is underpaid.
2. He demands fiscal responsibility and transparency.
otherwise, alot of ADspeak if that is what you crave.
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I want to thank Jeffrey Martin for his inside information on the negotiations over Frank Martin's potential contract extension. This information gave rise to a firestorm of complaints and condemnations from Wildcat fans. But I want to point out that we don't really know what is going in the negotiations. I have no doubt that Jeffrey Martin is connected, but he's not in the negotiations. He's receiving his information second or third-hand. I'm sure both sides have exchanged numbers (dollar figures and years, perhaps more than that), perhaps several times. While it is easy to say, "just give Martin a nice raise" or "give the man the money he deserves" it isn't that easy.
For instance, let's say that John Currie and KSU are willing to give Martin a multi-year deal worth $1.5M per year. Most Wildcat fans would say that is both fair and appropriate. But that can't be their first offer. If Currie faxed a 4-year/$6M offer to Martin's agent, do you think they'd just accept? Of course not. They are going to counter with a higher number, undoubtedly something like 4/$8M. My point is that whatever K-State offers instantly becomes the contract floor and that what is eventually agreed to will be higher than that. This does not mean that K-State should necessarily start with a ridiculous, insulting lowball offer. That might have been what they did. Maybe. We don't know for sure. But contract negotiations are about meeting in the middle. Neither side gets everything they want.
But I don't think this is just about money. It seemed like the prevailing tone in the comments on Jeffrey Martin's post was that K-State is being cheap and if they'd just offer a nice raise, Martin would sign and stay at K-State for many years. There are several assumptions and leaps of faith there which might not be warranted. The sticking point in the negotiation might not be salary or years. Certainly they are at issue, but I'm sure K-State wants a contract that actually keeps Martin in Manhattan. Let's take a ride in the Wayback Machine to 1990. Lon Kruger had just led the Wildcats to their fourth NCAA torney appearance in his four years as head coach (including an Elite Eight appearance). Kruger then thanked the University for their money and the fans for their support by leaving for the University of Florida. Does Martin want to stay at K-State? I'm sure many fans would say, "As long as he gets the right money and respect from the University and support from the fans, I'm sure he would." First, that's just a guess (or wishcasting). Second, even if K-State gives Martin a big raise, he can still get more money and more prestige from a school with a bigger name and deeper pockets.
What I'm suggesting is that one of the big sticking points in the negotiation might be some sort of penalty or buyout that Martin would have to pay if he leaves before the contract is up. If Martin has his sights set on using K-State as a resume-builder so that he can move onward and upward when he gets a good offer elsewhere, then he's going to want little or no such penalty/buyout. K-State, on the other hand, would want it to be significant.
I don't think this contract negotiation is a simple good guy (Martin) vs. bad guy (Currie) situation. Martin may well be looking for the contract which is easiest to get out of, regardless of the salary involved.
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At about the 3:00 mark... Frank's not going anywhere. Chill out until the season plays out.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4843449 (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4843449)
:ksu:
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I want to thank Jeffrey Martin for his inside information on the negotiations over Frank Martin's potential contract extension. This information gave rise to a firestorm of complaints and condemnations from Wildcat fans. But I want to point out that we don't really know what is going in the negotiations. I have no doubt that Jeffrey Martin is connected, but he's not in the negotiations. He's receiving his information second or third-hand. I'm sure both sides have exchanged numbers (dollar figures and years, perhaps more than that), perhaps several times. While it is easy to say, "just give Martin a nice raise" or "give the man the money he deserves" it isn't that easy.
For instance, let's say that John Currie and KSU are willing to give Martin a multi-year deal worth $1.5M per year. Most Wildcat fans would say that is both fair and appropriate. But that can't be their first offer. If Currie faxed a 4-year/$6M offer to Martin's agent, do you think they'd just accept? Of course not. They are going to counter with a higher number, undoubtedly something like 4/$8M. My point is that whatever K-State offers instantly becomes the contract floor and that what is eventually agreed to will be higher than that. This does not mean that K-State should necessarily start with a ridiculous, insulting lowball offer. That might have been what they did. Maybe. We don't know for sure. But contract negotiations are about meeting in the middle. Neither side gets everything they want.
But I don't think this is just about money. It seemed like the prevailing tone in the comments on Jeffrey Martin's post was that K-State is being cheap and if they'd just offer a nice raise, Martin would sign and stay at K-State for many years. There are several assumptions and leaps of faith there which might not be warranted. The sticking point in the negotiation might not be salary or years. Certainly they are at issue, but I'm sure K-State wants a contract that actually keeps Martin in Manhattan. Let's take a ride in the Wayback Machine to 1990. Lon Kruger had just led the Wildcats to their fourth NCAA torney appearance in his four years as head coach (including an Elite Eight appearance). Kruger then thanked the University for their money and the fans for their support by leaving for the University of Florida. Does Martin want to stay at K-State? I'm sure many fans would say, "As long as he gets the right money and respect from the University and support from the fans, I'm sure he would." First, that's just a guess (or wishcasting). Second, even if K-State gives Martin a big raise, he can still get more money and more prestige from a school with a bigger name and deeper pockets.
What I'm suggesting is that one of the big sticking points in the negotiation might be some sort of penalty or buyout that Martin would have to pay if he leaves before the contract is up. If Martin has his sights set on using K-State as a resume-builder so that he can move onward and upward when he gets a good offer elsewhere, then he's going to want little or no such penalty/buyout. K-State, on the other hand, would want it to be significant.
I don't think this contract negotiation is a simple good guy (Martin) vs. bad guy (Currie) situation. Martin may well be looking for the contract which is easiest to get out of, regardless of the salary involved.
jfc, this is a message board not a fracking book club....
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catINdallas, did you have trouble reading that many words? And are you suggesting that posts here should include less insight, analysis and information? That makes posts better?
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jfc, this is a message board not a fracking book club....
Don't be an ass. It's rational well thought out thinking, unlike a lot of the knee-jerk responses on this board. How free everybody seems to be with K-State's money... It'll all play out and be just fine. Starting at about the 3;00 mark -
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4843449 (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4843449)
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Sticking point: mid-major sized budget. We could DOD the Mountan West, people. Think about it.
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There are good points there. I agree that the information we have is very limited and skewed by one side or the other or both.
On buy-outs, I think its important, but I think recent history has shown that buy-outs rarely are good things to fall back on to keep coaches. We'll need to have one, and it would be nice to have a decent one to help "seed" the next coach should Frank leave, but IMO it can't be a major sticking poing in getting the contract done. Plus, I think Frank has enough leverage that we'll probably have to concede this one a bit.
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Sticking point: mid-major sized budget. We could DOD the Mountan West, people. Think about it.
i would love to DOD the Mountain West but you need to think before you speak. BYU? UNLV? NM?
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I want to thank Jeffrey Martin for his inside information on the negotiations over Frank Martin's potential contract extension. This information gave rise to a firestorm of complaints and condemnations from Wildcat fans. But I want to point out that we don't really know what is going in the negotiations. I have no doubt that Jeffrey Martin is connected, but he's not in the negotiations. He's receiving his information second or third-hand. I'm sure both sides have exchanged numbers (dollar figures and years, perhaps more than that), perhaps several times. While it is easy to say, "just give Martin a nice raise" or "give the man the money he deserves" it isn't that easy.
For instance, let's say that John Currie and KSU are willing to give Martin a multi-year deal worth $1.5M per year. Most Wildcat fans would say that is both fair and appropriate. But that can't be their first offer. If Currie faxed a 4-year/$6M offer to Martin's agent, do you think they'd just accept? Of course not. They are going to counter with a higher number, undoubtedly something like 4/$8M. My point is that whatever K-State offers instantly becomes the contract floor and that what is eventually agreed to will be higher than that. This does not mean that K-State should necessarily start with a ridiculous, insulting lowball offer. That might have been what they did. Maybe. We don't know for sure. But contract negotiations are about meeting in the middle. Neither side gets everything they want.
But I don't think this is just about money. It seemed like the prevailing tone in the comments on Jeffrey Martin's post was that K-State is being cheap and if they'd just offer a nice raise, Martin would sign and stay at K-State for many years. There are several assumptions and leaps of faith there which might not be warranted. The sticking point in the negotiation might not be salary or years. Certainly they are at issue, but I'm sure K-State wants a contract that actually keeps Martin in Manhattan. Let's take a ride in the Wayback Machine to 1990. Lon Kruger had just led the Wildcats to their fourth NCAA torney appearance in his four years as head coach (including an Elite Eight appearance). Kruger then thanked the University for their money and the fans for their support by leaving for the University of Florida. Does Martin want to stay at K-State? I'm sure many fans would say, "As long as he gets the right money and respect from the University and support from the fans, I'm sure he would." First, that's just a guess (or wishcasting). Second, even if K-State gives Martin a big raise, he can still get more money and more prestige from a school with a bigger name and deeper pockets.
What I'm suggesting is that one of the big sticking points in the negotiation might be some sort of penalty or buyout that Martin would have to pay if he leaves before the contract is up. If Martin has his sights set on using K-State as a resume-builder so that he can move onward and upward when he gets a good offer elsewhere, then he's going to want little or no such penalty/buyout. K-State, on the other hand, would want it to be significant.
I don't think this contract negotiation is a simple good guy (Martin) vs. bad guy (Currie) situation. Martin may well be looking for the contract which is easiest to get out of, regardless of the salary involved.
Not all negotiations go like this. Many times when competent people are involved, a fair price is offered and accepted with very little haggling over the details. Everyone makes it seem like all negotiations are always some form of a grueling chess match
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Most mid-major sized budget's are $15 to $20 million less than K-State's athletic budget.
The only "mid-major's" that have anything close to K-State's athletic budget are the handful that play pretty big time football, like tcu and Utah, and frankly even though they play in the MWC I don't consider schools like tcu, at least as far as their entire athletic department's go, mid-majors. (Which is why I don't worry as much about the so called "super conferences" . . . but that's for another thread at a another time).
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There are good points there. I agree that the information we have is very limited and skewed by one side or the other or both.
On buy-outs, I think its important, but I think recent history has shown that buy-outs rarely are good things to fall back on to keep coaches. We'll need to have one, and it would be nice to have a decent one to help "seed" the next coach should Frank leave, but IMO it can't be a major sticking poing in getting the contract done. Plus, I think Frank has enough leverage that we'll probably have to concede this one a bit.
Without a significant buyout, we should all expect Frank to leave soon. He's going to be on the short-list for every D1 school that has or will have a job opening.
The sad part is that when he leaves, I'm sure fans will blame Currie, even though the money he'll get from the next school will be significantly more than K-State could possibly afford.
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http://cjonline.com/sports/basketball/2010-01-20/currie_qa_whats_next_for_martin
Currie used a lot of words in that interview to not say much at all.
qft. maybe I'm easily comforted, but that (along with all the other interviews he gave) was comforting. currie used the word trust a lot. what I took out of what currie was saying, was basically "i'm being honest with frank about how we don't have money right now, but i'm working on getting that money, frank trusts me when I say that and believes me when I say that and I believe frank when he says that he trusts me and that he'll be patient. i'm not setting a deadline because I don't know when I'm going to get that money. also, quit e-mailing me, I get it." but maybe I just read way too much into it.
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I want to thank Jeffrey Martin for his inside information on the negotiations over Frank Martin's potential contract extension. This information gave rise to a firestorm of complaints and condemnations from Wildcat fans. But I want to point out that we don't really know what is going in the negotiations. I have no doubt that Jeffrey Martin is connected, but he's not in the negotiations. He's receiving his information second or third-hand. I'm sure both sides have exchanged numbers (dollar figures and years, perhaps more than that), perhaps several times. While it is easy to say, "just give Martin a nice raise" or "give the man the money he deserves" it isn't that easy.
For instance, let's say that John Currie and KSU are willing to give Martin a multi-year deal worth $1.5M per year. Most Wildcat fans would say that is both fair and appropriate. But that can't be their first offer. If Currie faxed a 4-year/$6M offer to Martin's agent, do you think they'd just accept? Of course not. They are going to counter with a higher number, undoubtedly something like 4/$8M. My point is that whatever K-State offers instantly becomes the contract floor and that what is eventually agreed to will be higher than that. This does not mean that K-State should necessarily start with a ridiculous, insulting lowball offer. That might have been what they did. Maybe. We don't know for sure. But contract negotiations are about meeting in the middle. Neither side gets everything they want.
But I don't think this is just about money. It seemed like the prevailing tone in the comments on Jeffrey Martin's post was that K-State is being cheap and if they'd just offer a nice raise, Martin would sign and stay at K-State for many years. There are several assumptions and leaps of faith there which might not be warranted. The sticking point in the negotiation might not be salary or years. Certainly they are at issue, but I'm sure K-State wants a contract that actually keeps Martin in Manhattan. Let's take a ride in the Wayback Machine to 1990. Lon Kruger had just led the Wildcats to their fourth NCAA torney appearance in his four years as head coach (including an Elite Eight appearance). Kruger then thanked the University for their money and the fans for their support by leaving for the University of Florida. Does Martin want to stay at K-State? I'm sure many fans would say, "As long as he gets the right money and respect from the University and support from the fans, I'm sure he would." First, that's just a guess (or wishcasting). Second, even if K-State gives Martin a big raise, he can still get more money and more prestige from a school with a bigger name and deeper pockets.
What I'm suggesting is that one of the big sticking points in the negotiation might be some sort of penalty or buyout that Martin would have to pay if he leaves before the contract is up. If Martin has his sights set on using K-State as a resume-builder so that he can move onward and upward when he gets a good offer elsewhere, then he's going to want little or no such penalty/buyout. K-State, on the other hand, would want it to be significant.
I don't think this contract negotiation is a simple good guy (Martin) vs. bad guy (Currie) situation. Martin may well be looking for the contract which is easiest to get out of, regardless of the salary involved.
Not all negotiations go like this. Many times when competent people are involved, a fair price is offered and accepted with very little haggling over the details. Everyone makes it seem like all negotiations are always some form of a grueling chess match
We're talking about a multi-million dollar contract negotiation. Do you think that is ever done with one offer followed by acceptance? If so, you are fooling yourself. There is ALWAYS a lot of back and forth with offers and counteroffers.
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Sticking point: mid-major sized budget. We could DOD the Mountan West, people. Think about it.
i would love to DOD the Mountain West but you need to think before you speak. BYU? UNLV? NM?
IMO, the only alternative is CUSA, and they have all those sexy urban schools (Houston, Memphis, SMU) and would just kill us in recruiting. At least MWC has a couple garbage locations that we could actually compete against. (Ft. Collins, Laramie, etc...)
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Without a significant buyout, we should all expect Frank to leave soon. He's going to be on the short-list for every D1 school that has or will have a job opening.
The sad part is that when he leaves, I'm sure fans will blame Currie, even though the money he'll get from the next school will be significantly more than K-State could possibly afford.
I agree that no matter what, the money he can probably get elsewhere will be more than here. And if the school is big enough, I doubt that any buyout will matter either. I just don't see a significant buyout as a big deal other than at least giving K-State something to start with to look for another coach. Don't get me wrong, we should make it as big as we can, but I also don't think its a hill Currie can die on in negotiating the contract.
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Royal, you've got to understand that the extent of negotiation experience for most of the people on this board is either wheeling and dealing for an extra sour cream at Chipotle, or hammering out a "who cooks the Totino's" agreement with a room mate.
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Without a significant buyout, we should all expect Frank to leave soon. He's going to be on the short-list for every D1 school that has or will have a job opening.
The sad part is that when he leaves, I'm sure fans will blame Currie, even though the money he'll get from the next school will be significantly more than K-State could possibly afford.
I agree that no matter what, the money he can probably get elsewhere will be more than here. And if the school is big enough, I doubt that any buyout will matter either. I just don't see a significant buyout as a big deal other than at least giving K-State something to start with to look for another coach. Don't get me wrong, we should make it as big as we can, but I also don't think its a hill Currie can die on in negotiating the contract.
Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
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Royal, you've got to understand that the extent of negotiation experience for most of the people on this board is either wheeling and dealing for an extra sour cream at Chipotle, or hammering out a "who cooks the Totino's" agreement with a room mate.
Zing!
well said
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:users:
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I want to thank Jeffrey Martin for his inside information on the negotiations over Frank Martin's potential contract extension. This information gave rise to a firestorm of complaints and condemnations from Wildcat fans. But I want to point out that we don't really know what is going in the negotiations. I have no doubt that Jeffrey Martin is connected, but he's not in the negotiations. He's receiving his information second or third-hand. I'm sure both sides have exchanged numbers (dollar figures and years, perhaps more than that), perhaps several times. While it is easy to say, "just give Martin a nice raise" or "give the man the money he deserves" it isn't that easy.
For instance, let's say that John Currie and KSU are willing to give Martin a multi-year deal worth $1.5M per year. Most Wildcat fans would say that is both fair and appropriate. But that can't be their first offer. If Currie faxed a 4-year/$6M offer to Martin's agent, do you think they'd just accept? Of course not. They are going to counter with a higher number, undoubtedly something like 4/$8M. My point is that whatever K-State offers instantly becomes the contract floor and that what is eventually agreed to will be higher than that. This does not mean that K-State should necessarily start with a ridiculous, insulting lowball offer. That might have been what they did. Maybe. We don't know for sure. But contract negotiations are about meeting in the middle. Neither side gets everything they want.
But I don't think this is just about money. It seemed like the prevailing tone in the comments on Jeffrey Martin's post was that K-State is being cheap and if they'd just offer a nice raise, Martin would sign and stay at K-State for many years. There are several assumptions and leaps of faith there which might not be warranted. The sticking point in the negotiation might not be salary or years. Certainly they are at issue, but I'm sure K-State wants a contract that actually keeps Martin in Manhattan. Let's take a ride in the Wayback Machine to 1990. Lon Kruger had just led the Wildcats to their fourth NCAA torney appearance in his four years as head coach (including an Elite Eight appearance). Kruger then thanked the University for their money and the fans for their support by leaving for the University of Florida. Does Martin want to stay at K-State? I'm sure many fans would say, "As long as he gets the right money and respect from the University and support from the fans, I'm sure he would." First, that's just a guess (or wishcasting). Second, even if K-State gives Martin a big raise, he can still get more money and more prestige from a school with a bigger name and deeper pockets.
What I'm suggesting is that one of the big sticking points in the negotiation might be some sort of penalty or buyout that Martin would have to pay if he leaves before the contract is up. If Martin has his sights set on using K-State as a resume-builder so that he can move onward and upward when he gets a good offer elsewhere, then he's going to want little or no such penalty/buyout. K-State, on the other hand, would want it to be significant.
I don't think this contract negotiation is a simple good guy (Martin) vs. bad guy (Currie) situation. Martin may well be looking for the contract which is easiest to get out of, regardless of the salary involved.
Not all negotiations go like this. Many times when competent people are involved, a fair price is offered and accepted with very little haggling over the details. Everyone makes it seem like all negotiations are always some form of a grueling chess match
We're talking about a multi-million dollar contract negotiation. Do you think that is ever done with one offer followed by acceptance? If so, you are fooling yourself. There is ALWAYS a lot of back and forth with offers and counteroffers.
I don't think that you can say it ALWAYS happens this way or that way.
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
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I don't think that you can say it ALWAYS happens this way or that way.
Ok, how about 99+% of the time.
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I don't think that you can say it ALWAYS happens this way or that way.
Ok, how about 99+% of the time.
Agreed. But, this isn't like a bodily injury settlement negotiation where outrageous numbers are thrown about by each side. These people have to work with each other and hopefully have a very good relationship after this contract is signed. It makes sense to keep demands/offers in the realm of the reasonable. Maybe they have been. Maybe not.
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Was it this board, or another, where it was being reported that ku, NU and MU are all going to the Big 10?
In any event, I believe we have what it takes to really succeed in the Valley.
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
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Was it this board, or another, where it was being reported that ku, NU and MU are all going to the Big 10?
I don't believe that for a second.
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Was it this board, or another, where it was being reported that ku, NU and MU are all going to the Big 10?
I don't believe that for a second.
Gun to my head, I say Mizzou will go. If I were the Big 10, I'd take ku and NU as well.
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It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
The hope in that case is similar to Anderson at MU last year; Georgia offered him much more but he was willing to stay b/c of what he was building there, not wanting to start over, and a bit of loyalty. I think we could ride that for a bit, and I think it will take 3-4 years of success for a sustained bigger program to offer him a lot more. Until then he'll get bigger budget schools coming after him, but with programs that are probably in bad shape. But just like no one really knows what is really going on in negotiations, no one knows who wil come after Frank either.
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Was it this board, or another, where it was being reported that ku, NU and MU are all going to the Big 10?
I don't believe that for a second.
Gun to my head, I say Mizzou will go. If I were the Big 10, I'd take ku and NU as well.
Sure, it is possible that one Big 12 team could jump. And the Big 10 would probably like to have ku and NU as well. But ku and NU would have to have an incentive to go. The only incentive would be a better revenue sharing deal. And I doubt the Big 10 schools would be willing to offer such a sweet deal just so they can go up to 14 teams. I think they are motivated to do what it takes to add one school, but not more than that. If Mizzou goes, the Big 12 will just add someone else.
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I don't think that you can say it ALWAYS happens this way or that way.
Ok, how about 99+% of the time.
With a law degree you probably have more experience in this than I do. I have zero experience with contract negotiations regarding college coaches. Maybe you do and can make a statement like that with certainty. I have seen many negotiations in other realms and have seen them play out where someone wants to buy something and they are educated enough to know what something is worth. They come in and buy it as opposed to haggling and playing the "if I bid this price, they will counter at this, and we can settle at this" game. My point is that if we wanted to keep him, I think we could make him an offer that he would be more or less happy with as opposed to giving him a low ball offer on the premise that he is going to counter at some unreasonably high number and we would have to split the difference.
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It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
The hope in that case is similar to Anderson at MU last year; Georgia offered him much more but he was willing to stay b/c of what he was building there, not wanting to start over, and a bit of loyalty. I think we could ride that for a bit, and I think it will take 3-4 years of success for a sustained bigger program to offer him a lot more. Until then he'll get bigger budget schools coming after him, but with programs that are probably in bad shape. But just like no one really knows what is really going on in negotiations, no one knows who wil come after Frank either.
Good points. I'll try to stay optimistic. I was an undergrad when Kruger left. It left me with a bad taste in my mouth. From that point on, I expected any good KSU coach to leave for greener pastures. I expect that of Snyder and he didn't. So there's that.
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
fantastic post imo
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
fantastic post imo
Yeah, excellent post by Zacker.
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I don't think that you can say it ALWAYS happens this way or that way.
Ok, how about 99+% of the time.
i would also add that 99% of the people in this thread don't have a clue what they're talking about. it seems that you and dax fall into the lucky 1%. i've negotiated contracts worth far more than the one martin will eventually sign with K-State. never, not once, did I begin with a "fair" offer. that's just plain stupid.
LOL @ offending someone during a multiyear, multimillion dollar contract negotiation
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Was it this board, or another, where it was being reported that ku, NU and MU are all going to the Big 10?
I don't believe that for a second.
Gun to my head, I say Mizzou will go. If I were the Big 10, I'd take ku and NU as well.
Mizzou has said they are not going. And the Big 10 wouldn't touch NU or ku. They didn't really want MU, they were just a fallback plan based on geography.
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
That's a good point, but in a contract negotiation, what kind of initial offer shows respect and what kind of offer respresents disrespect? Is anything less than $1M per year disrespectful? If so, how and why do we draw the line there?
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
That's a good point, but in a contract negotiation, what kind of initial offer shows respect and what kind of offer respresents disrespect? Is anything less than $1M per year disrespectful? If so, how and why do we draw the line there?
I think it's pretty easy to do so in this instance. You have 12 coaches in the conference. Any offer you make will immediately tell the coach where you think they stand. The coach's demand will tell you where he thinks he stands. Any demand above the top 2 is ridiculous. Any offer below the bottom 4 is ridiculous. I think those provide respectable starting points for negotiations.
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
fantastic post imo
Yeah, excellent post by Zacker.
f^ck each and every one of you guys. i've more/less been saying this exact same thing for the past 13 pages.
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
fantastic post imo
Yeah, excellent post by Zacker.
f^ck each and every one of you guys. i've more/less been saying this exact same thing for the past 13 pages.
zacker says it prettier :blank:
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
fantastic post imo
Yeah, excellent post by Zacker.
f^ck each and every one of you guys. i've more/less been saying this exact same thing for the past 13 pages.
zacker says it prettier :blank:
you are only saying that because you've actually seen both zacker and i in person. :frown:
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
That's a good point, but in a contract negotiation, what kind of initial offer shows respect and what kind of offer respresents disrespect? Is anything less than $1M per year disrespectful? If so, how and why do we draw the line there?
I think it's pretty easy to do so in this instance. You have 12 coaches in the conference. Any offer you make will immediately tell the coach where you think they stand. The coach's demand will tell you where he thinks he stands. Any demand above the top 2 is ridiculous. Any offer below the bottom 4 is ridiculous. I think those provide respectable starting points for negotiations.
That makes sense. How much do the bottom 4 coaches make?
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
That's a good point, but in a contract negotiation, what kind of initial offer shows respect and what kind of offer respresents disrespect? Is anything less than $1M per year disrespectful? If so, how and why do we draw the line there?
I think it's pretty easy to do so in this instance. You have 12 coaches in the conference. Any offer you make will immediately tell the coach where you think they stand. The coach's demand will tell you where he thinks he stands. Any demand above the top 2 is ridiculous. Any offer below the bottom 4 is ridiculous. I think those provide respectable starting points for negotiations.
That makes sense. How much do the bottom 4 coaches make?
:dunno: I don't think we ever got a full updated list. That's got to be out on the interwebs somewhere.
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
That's a good point, but in a contract negotiation, what kind of initial offer shows respect and what kind of offer respresents disrespect? Is anything less than $1M per year disrespectful? If so, how and why do we draw the line there?
I think it's pretty easy to do so in this instance. You have 12 coaches in the conference. Any offer you make will immediately tell the coach where you think they stand. The coach's demand will tell you where he thinks he stands. Any demand above the top 2 is ridiculous. Any offer below the bottom 4 is ridiculous. I think those provide respectable starting points for negotiations.
That makes sense. How much do the bottom 4 coaches make?
:dunno: I don't think we ever got a full updated list. That's got to be out on the interwebs somewhere.
Yeah, I hope someone can find the list of big 12 men's BB coaches salaries.
Unfortunately, a lot of people in this thread have basically jumped to the conclusion that Currie has disrespected Martin in the contract negotiations despite 1) not knowing how much Currie has offered, and 2) not knowing where that ranks among Big 12 coaches.
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So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here. A single source. While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.
You're apparently plugged in enough to know that I'm not plugged in anymore? Or, as I once was? Look, I still stand by what I heard. I also said the second part of my initial post was conjecture. Nothing I said was iron-clad, nor did I represent myself as a current beat writer of K-State athletics. I was passing along some information that, let's see, just happened to fall into my lap because, obviously, I'm not as plugged into KSU as I once was.
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So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here. A single source. While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.
You're apparently plugged in enough to know that I'm not plugged in anymore? Or, as I once was? Look, I still stand by what I heard. I also said the second part of my initial post was conjecture. Nothing I said was iron-clad, nor did I represent myself as a current beat writer of K-State athletics. I was passing along some information that, let's see, just happened to fall into my lap because, obviously, I'm not as plugged into KSU as I once was.
J-Mart, thanks for sticking around. And any reasonable fan realizes you've got good information.
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Agreed. And I think if more people understood this element of the contract, they'd be less likely to describe the negotations as good guy vs. bad guy. Currie wants to keep Martin, but knows he is likely just paying for a rental. Do most Cat fans understand this?
No idea. I'd say many do, I'm certainly not expecting Frank to be a lifer. I'm hopeful that we can get something done that will allow us to at least keep Frank around another 3-4 years at Top 20 type program success. I think this is possible. After that, who knows, its likely we won't be able to keep him.
It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
all the stuff you say is all well and good, but if you're ksu and you understand that your controlable situation is, inherently, inferior to other places, then you work on the things you can control. you highlight your strengths as much as possible because you know if you do you have more of a chance at keeping him (and it really doesn't "cost" you any more than you would have normally paid). to me, it's pretty simple when dealing with frank....don't disrespect him. doesn't mean "kiss his ass". just be fair with him. And then if you do that, you put yourself in a position that when those schools come calling with more money, maybe he stays because of the relationship you have with him (which doesn't "cost" anything). he might still bolt, but it won't be because your "new" offer still put paid him as a bottom 4 coach.
That's a good point, but in a contract negotiation, what kind of initial offer shows respect and what kind of offer respresents disrespect? Is anything less than $1M per year disrespectful? If so, how and why do we draw the line there?
I think it's pretty easy to do so in this instance. You have 12 coaches in the conference. Any offer you make will immediately tell the coach where you think they stand. The coach's demand will tell you where he thinks he stands. Any demand above the top 2 is ridiculous. Any offer below the bottom 4 is ridiculous. I think those provide respectable starting points for negotiations.
That makes sense. How much do the bottom 4 coaches make?
:dunno: I don't think we ever got a full updated list. That's got to be out on the interwebs somewhere.
Yeah, I hope someone can find the list of big 12 men's BB coaches salaries.
Unfortunately, a lot of people in this thread have basically jumped to the conclusion that Currie has disrespected Martin in the contract negotiations despite 1) not knowing how much Currie has offered, and 2) not knowing where that ranks among Big 12 coaches.
Just curious, what would you offer him initially? And, assuming the rumors are true that he was offered a $100k raise, what do you think of that (if that's not what you would have offered to open).
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at this point in time, all evidence from completely unrelated sources (mike decourcy, jmart, Keitz-lol) points directly to kstate being purposefully cheap and trying to offer unreasonable amounts of money to retain martin and staff. where are the sources saying that the kstate offer wasn't a lowball one? did i miss them? are they in a different thread?
also, lol at dax trying to insinuate every other post that he's smarter and has experience then other people have which somehow qualifies his opinion as a more valid one. l o freaking l. you are so important dax. pffffft.
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it was posted earlier in this thread.
ku 3M
UT 2M
MU 1.55M
OSU 1.3M
A&M 1.2M
OU 1.05M
CU 800k
NU 800K
KSU 760K
ISU 650k
BU unkown
TT unkown (median of big 12 coaching salaries)
the negotiation should have probably started at 1.05m and then moved from there. That's top half of the league.
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Just curious, what would you offer him initially? And, assuming the rumors are true that he was offered a $100k raise, what do you think of that (if that's not what you would have offered to open).
I'd need more information, including the salaries of other Big 12 coaches. I'd also need to know how much money I had to spend. I don't know what Currie's budgetary constraints are. But a $100K raise sounds like an unreasonable lowball to me. It's a non-starter. I hope that isn't what he offered.
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Self 3M
Barnes 2M
Anderson 1.55M
Ford 1.3M
Turgeon 1.2M
Knight 1.2M
Capel 1.05M
Drew > 1M (can't find anything other than someone confirming it's more than 1M per)
BzDeliackigkcht 800k
Doc 800K
Frank 760K
McNeck 650k
Here's what I've been able to come up with but I don't know if this needs updating with any newer contracts. I think, based on this, offering him less than $1M is pretty disrespectful and I think him demanding more than 1.5M is pretty ridiculous. So, if I was either party I would start with a demand of $1.5 and I'd start with an offer of $1M. Should probably end up between $1.1M-$1.4M (I know, pretty broad)
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Self 3M
Barnes 2M
Anderson 1.55M
Ford 1.3M
Turgeon 1.2M
Knight 1.2M
Capel 1.05M
Drew > 1M (can't find anything other than someone confirming it's more than 1M per)
BzDeliackigkcht 800k
Doc 800K
Frank 760K
McNeck 650k
Here's what I've been able to come up with but I don't know if this needs updating with any newer contracts. I think, based on this, offering him less than $1M is pretty disrespectful and I think him demanding more than 1.5M is pretty ridiculous. So, if I was either party I would start with a demand of $1.5 and I'd start with an offer of $1M. Should probably end up between $1.1-$1.4.
Yeah, he should be in the Knight/Turgeon/Ford area.
Baylor is private, so info on coaching salaries is hard to come by.
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it was posted earlier in this thread.
ku 3M
UT 2M
MU 1.55M
OSU 1.3M
A&M 1.2M
OU 1.05M
CU 800k
NU 800K
KSU 760K
ISU 650k
BU unkown
TT unkown (median of big 12 coaching salaries)
the negotiation should have probably started at 1.05m and then moved from there. That's top half of the league.
From that list, it looks like the median salary is less than $1M. Jeffrey Martin reported that the Cats initial offer was less than $1M. I don't think an intial offer in the middle of the conference coach's range is unreasonable or disrespectful. Of course we don't know how much under $1M the offer was.
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considering that the only coaches in the big 12 not named frank martin that aren't over 1 million are on track to be fired... it's a good ballpark for where the offer goes from appreciated to insulting.
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it was posted earlier in this thread.
ku 3M
UT 2M
MU 1.55M
OSU 1.3M
A&M 1.2M
OU 1.05M
CU 800k
NU 800K
KSU 760K
ISU 650k
BU unkown
TT unkown (median of big 12 coaching salaries)
the negotiation should have probably started at 1.05m and then moved from there. That's top half of the league.
From that list, it looks like the median salary is less than $1M. Jeffrey Martin reported that the Cats initial offer was less than $1M. I don't think an intial offer in the middle of the conference coach's range is unreasonable or disrespectful. Of course we don't know how much under $1M the offer was.
See updated list in my post.
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Self 3M
Barnes 2M
Anderson 1.55M
Ford 1.3M
Turgeon 1.2M
Knight 1.2M
Capel 1.05M
Drew > 1M (can't find anything other than someone confirming it's more than 1M per)
McDermott 850K
BzDelik 800k
Doc 800K
Frank 760K
Updated, McDermott actually will make 850K this year.
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Get me a list of Mountain West coach salaries. I have an idea.
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Self 3M
Barnes 2M
Anderson 1.55M
Ford 1.3M
Turgeon 1.2M
Knight 1.2M
Capel 1.05M
Drew > 1M (can't find anything other than someone confirming it's more than 1M per)
BzDeliackigkcht 800k
McDermott 850K
Doc 800K
Frank 760K
Updated, McDermott actually will make 850K this year.
i do think that it's safe to assume drew is more than one million given the fact that the woman's coach at baylor makes a million. no way that they would pay the womans coach more than the mens. that means that anything less than 1.0 million would've still put him in the bottom four. what an insult. why would they insult him like this? :confused:
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Lets leave it alone. I know this is going to be hard for us today given that it is a hot topic and we all want to talk about it. What can we really do at this point besides bitch and complain? Donate money? (Yes, we should all do this by the way) Threaten JC?
Since we are not Frank, John, or Frank's agent we really have no &@#%ing clue what has been said. Everything up to this point is speculation, and it's starting to make us look bad. All 610 and 810 were talking about yesterday is how &@#%ing retarded we are. Both stations referenced the "websites," and thats where they took most of their talking material from.
Lurking in the forums and beating a dead horse is not going to give Fank an extension any faster. It will however give the opposing fanbase entertainment.
I know this thread is :powertard: and all but our bitching is giving us bad press and not helping the situation at all. Having more of a snowball affect that probably won't stop til' the end of the season.
Frank will get his extension, and if not he will leave. If he leaves because our AD is a cheapass, then JC most likely won't be our AD for long. Only thing we can do is wait it out, enjoy FM and the boys kicking ass, and hope our AD makes good decisions (once again, donating to the athletic department will help).
Once again, :powertard: so flame away.
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I guess I would have offered $1M to start, intending to end up around $1.25M (if his budget allows it). But I don't think that an initial offer of $900K is insulting or disrespectful.
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Best post on the issue.
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Royal, you've got to understand that the extent of negotiation experience for most of the people on this board is either wheeling and dealing for an extra sour cream at Chipotle, or hammering out a "who cooks the Totino's" agreement with a room mate.
This is very true. And very telling.
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Here is a spreadsheet I just prepared showing the coaching salaries of the Big 12 for the last 3 years.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1MjnWshHhQvu6ThgCbKPyQ?feat=directlink
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Self 3M
Barnes 2M
Anderson 1.55M
Ford 1.3M
Turgeon 1.2M
Knight 1.2M
Capel 1.05M
Drew > 1M (can't find anything other than someone confirming it's more than 1M per)
McDermott 850K
BzDelik 800k
Doc 800K
Frank 760K
Updated, McDermott actually will make 850K this year.
JFC, we're lucky Frank is still at KSU as it is.
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Self 3M
Barnes 2M
Anderson 1.55M
Ford 1.3M
Turgeon 1.2M
Knight 1.2M
Capel 1.05M
Drew > 1M (can't find anything other than someone confirming it's more than 1M per)
McDermott 850K
BzDelik 800k
Doc 800K
Frank 760K
Updated, McDermott actually will make 850K this year.
JFC, we're lucky Frank is still at KSU as it is.
What kind of raise did you think he deserved after last year's NIT season?
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Self 3M
Barnes 2M
Anderson 1.55M
Ford 1.3M
Turgeon 1.2M
Knight 1.2M
Capel 1.05M
Drew > 1M (can't find anything other than someone confirming it's more than 1M per)
McDermott 850K
BzDelik 800k
Doc 800K
Frank 760K
Updated, McDermott actually will make 850K this year.
JFC, we're lucky Frank is still at KSU as it is.
What kind of raise did you think he deserved after last year's NIT season?
At least enough to pay him more than those 3 turds just above him.
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I guess I would have offered $1M to start, intending to end up around $1.25M (if his budget allows it). But I don't think that an initial offer of $900K is insulting or disrespectful.
That's only $40k more than the figure you said was an "unreasonable low ball" and "non-starter" though :dunno: I just think an initial offer of $1M was/is called for. Both parties know it's going to get there so why risk it.
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it was posted earlier in this thread.
ku 3M
UT 2M
MU 1.55M
OSU 1.3M
A&M 1.2M
OU 1.05M
CU 800k
NU 800K
KSU 760K
ISU 650k
BU unkown
TT unkown (median of big 12 coaching salaries)
the negotiation should have probably started at 1.05m and then moved from there. That's top half of the league.
From that list, it looks like the median salary is less than $1M. Jeffrey Martin reported that the Cats initial offer was less than $1M. I don't think an intial offer in the middle of the conference coach's range is unreasonable or disrespectful. Of course we don't know how much under $1M the offer was.
No the median isn't under a million. Four guys make under a millon the coach at CU, the coach at ISU, the coach at NU and Frank. CU, NU, and ISU have probably been the worst three teams in the league the last few years certainly amongst the bottom 4 teams.
KSU has finished in the top 4 the last few years. Not sure why everyone is having such a hard time grasping why making him an offer to keep in in the bottom 4 was insulting. I don't think any of the other guys in the bottom 4 will get another contract with the possible excpetion of Bdzellik because CU just doesn't care. No school that cares about winning should ever give a guy a second contract that low. Either he proves he's worth more or you can him.
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at this point in time, all evidence from completely unrelated sources (mike decourcy, jmart, Keitz-lol) points directly to kstate being purposefully cheap and trying to offer unreasonable amounts of money to retain martin and staff. where are the sources saying that the kstate offer wasn't a lowball one? did i miss them? are they in a different thread?
There isn't any evidence to the contary. And, I think that is precisely the point.
The only people with any "real" knowledge on the point have been completely silent: Curry, Martin, McGuffin, Sigmon, Martin's Agent, Martin's Lawyer, the University's Lawyers, and Tank's Bulldog.
I don't disbelieve J-Mart, but I've heard enough rumors over the past 10 years regarding KSU athletics that I take most "insider knoweldge" commentary with a grain of salt. "It's Patterson" comes to mind. And Fitz is about as "connected" as they come. No?
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initially i overeacted to this news (not on here though) but the more i think about it the more I think that ADJC was just redoing the contract so that it was a contract done under his admin with his stamp on it and his own wording. I dont think ADJC wanted to mess with the actual $$ at that point (and as many have pointed out, Frank still had a lot to prove after only 2 yrs). I mean, it would seem to fit with what he did with Snyder (and to a lesser extent Patterson and Hill though I dont really know much about their contracts other than i'm sure Hill deserved somewhat of a raise).
the lowball offer I dont think was meant as a longterm solution if Frank ended up being really successful. I fully believe Currie would have or will up Martin's deal if we end up with a super season whether Martin took the lowball offer or not. I'm starting to think maybe the Martin camp has taken this the wrong way or else there is some serious disconnect in how the 2 sides are communicating.
only at KSU though could something like this get way overblown. I'm now in the camp of saving my meltdown for if/when Frank leaves.
Get it ready then. Why would Martin agree to a lowball offer and put his faith that 1.5mil is going to come when he'd have to pay a buyout to leave if it did not?
well none of us know how many years the offer was for or what a buyout would be. like i was suggesting it could have just been a re-write of the current contract. but seriously, if Frank goes on to win the big 12 and make a deep tournament run, you're kidding yourself if you don't think we step up to the plate and give him the money he deserves, big buyout or no big buy out and even after just re-signing a deal prior to this season. JMO.
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offering him less than $1M is pretty disrespectful and I think him demanding more than 1.5M is pretty ridiculous. So, if I was either party I would start with a demand of $1.5 and I'd start with an offer of $1M. Should probably end up between $1.1M-$1.4M (I know, pretty broad)
+1
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http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=49667.0 (http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=49667.0)
I agree with this guy.
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It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
The hope in that case is similar to Anderson at MU last year; Georgia offered him much more but he was willing to stay b/c of what he was building there, not wanting to start over, and a bit of loyalty. I think we could ride that for a bit, and I think it will take 3-4 years of success for a sustained bigger program to offer him a lot more. Until then he'll get bigger budget schools coming after him, but with programs that are probably in bad shape. But just like no one really knows what is really going on in negotiations, no one knows who wil come after Frank either.
I haven't seen this yet, but people have to realize that X amount of dollars in Manhattan, KS = X amount of dollars somewhere else.
If some East Coast or West Coast school offers Frank X million, we need to figure out what that actually equals in Manhattan, KS.
1.3 million in Manhattan = 1.5 million in Miami.
1.7 million in Manhattan = 2.0 million in Miami.
It's kind of simplistic thinking, but we need to make sure that fans realize that a perceived "cut" in negotiated salary isn't always a major cut.
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it was posted earlier in this thread.
ku 3M
UT 2M
MU 1.55M
OSU 1.3M
A&M 1.2M
OU 1.05M
CU 800k
NU 800K
KSU 760K
ISU 650k
BU unkown
TT unkown (median of big 12 coaching salaries)
the negotiation should have probably started at 1.05m and then moved from there. That's top half of the league.
From that list, it looks like the median salary is less than $1M. Jeffrey Martin reported that the Cats initial offer was less than $1M. I don't think an intial offer in the middle of the conference coach's range is unreasonable or disrespectful. Of course we don't know how much under $1M the offer was.
No the median isn't under a million. Four guys make under a millon the coach at CU, the coach at ISU, the coach at NU and Frank. CU, NU, and ISU have probably been the worst three teams in the league the last few years certainly amongst the bottom 4 teams.
KSU has finished in the top 4 the last few years. Not sure why everyone is having such a hard time grasping why making him an offer to keep in in the bottom 4 was insulting. I don't think any of the other guys in the bottom 4 will get another contract with the possible excpetion of Bdzellik because CU just doesn't care. No school that cares about winning should ever give a guy a second contract that low. Either he proves he's worth more or you can him.
Actually my calculations above (see link) show that the median was just over 800k until this year when it went to a hair over $1mil.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1MjnWshHhQvu6ThgCbKPyQ?feat=directlink
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I guess I would have offered $1M to start, intending to end up around $1.25M (if his budget allows it). But I don't think that an initial offer of $900K is insulting or disrespectful.
That's only $40k more than the figure you said was an "unreasonable low ball" and "non-starter" though :dunno: I just think an initial offer of $1M was/is called for. Both parties know it's going to get there so why risk it.
Yes, I think there's a fine line between "low" and "too low". I think an initial offer of $1M makes sense, but I don't think that any and every amount lower than that is necessarily a disrespectful insult. Both parties certainly do not know what number they'll end up at. For all we know, Martin wants something over $1.5M or he'll walk when the contract is up. What we do know is that the higher you start, the higher you'll end up. And what if Currie's budget ceiling puts him at something like $1.1M. Then you definitely don't want to start at $1M because you have little room to move.
I would have started at about $1M, but $900K isn't crazy, insulting or foolish. That represents an 18% raise which is decent for a guy with only 2 1/2 seasons of head coaching on his resume, including one NCAA torney appearance and one NIT appearance. It's a decent place to start, if a little lower than I would have started.
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It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
The hope in that case is similar to Anderson at MU last year; Georgia offered him much more but he was willing to stay b/c of what he was building there, not wanting to start over, and a bit of loyalty. I think we could ride that for a bit, and I think it will take 3-4 years of success for a sustained bigger program to offer him a lot more. Until then he'll get bigger budget schools coming after him, but with programs that are probably in bad shape. But just like no one really knows what is really going on in negotiations, no one knows who wil come after Frank either.
I haven't seen this yet, but people have to realize that X amount of dollars in Manhattan, KS = X amount of dollars somewhere else.
If some East Coast or West Coast school offers Frank X million, we need to figure out what that actually equals in Manhattan, KS.
1.3 million in Manhattan = 1.5 million in Miami.
1.7 million in Manhattan = 2.0 million in Miami.
It's kind of simplistic thinking, but we need to make sure that fans realize that a perceived "cut" in negotiated salary isn't always a major cut.
I don't think that's a valid argument. There's a reason why it's more expensive to live in some places vs. others. It's because people would rather live there. Any cost of living benefit is offset by quality of living. Now, that's not to say some people wouldn't rather live in Manhattan, KS v. Miami, FL. It's just that most wouldn't.
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It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
The hope in that case is similar to Anderson at MU last year; Georgia offered him much more but he was willing to stay b/c of what he was building there, not wanting to start over, and a bit of loyalty. I think we could ride that for a bit, and I think it will take 3-4 years of success for a sustained bigger program to offer him a lot more. Until then he'll get bigger budget schools coming after him, but with programs that are probably in bad shape. But just like no one really knows what is really going on in negotiations, no one knows who wil come after Frank either.
I haven't seen this yet, but people have to realize that X amount of dollars in Manhattan, KS = X amount of dollars somewhere else.
If some East Coast or West Coast school offers Frank X million, we need to figure out what that actually equals in Manhattan, KS.
1.3 million in Manhattan = 1.5 million in Miami.
1.7 million in Manhattan = 2.0 million in Miami.
It's kind of simplistic thinking, but we need to make sure that fans realize that a perceived "cut" in negotiated salary isn't always a major cut.
I don't think that's a valid argument. There's a reason why it's more expensive to live in some places vs. others. It's because people would rather live there. Any cost of living benefit is offset by quality of living. Now, that's not to say some people wouldn't rather live in Manhattan, KS v. Miami, FL. It's just that most wouldn't.
Definitely. Any benefit from the lower cost of living is balanced out by the fact that there are certain benefits to living in other places that Manahattan, KS doesn't have. In short, Manhattan isn't much of a draw for most people (although I loved it).
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It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
The hope in that case is similar to Anderson at MU last year; Georgia offered him much more but he was willing to stay b/c of what he was building there, not wanting to start over, and a bit of loyalty. I think we could ride that for a bit, and I think it will take 3-4 years of success for a sustained bigger program to offer him a lot more. Until then he'll get bigger budget schools coming after him, but with programs that are probably in bad shape. But just like no one really knows what is really going on in negotiations, no one knows who wil come after Frank either.
I haven't seen this yet, but people have to realize that X amount of dollars in Manhattan, KS = X amount of dollars somewhere else.
If some East Coast or West Coast school offers Frank X million, we need to figure out what that actually equals in Manhattan, KS.
1.3 million in Manhattan = 1.5 million in Miami.
1.7 million in Manhattan = 2.0 million in Miami.
It's kind of simplistic thinking, but we need to make sure that fans realize that a perceived "cut" in negotiated salary isn't always a major cut.
I don't think that's a valid argument. There's a reason why it's more expensive to live in some places vs. others. It's because people would rather live there. Any cost of living benefit is offset by quality of living. Now, that's not to say some people wouldn't rather live in Manhattan, KS v. Miami, FL. It's just that most wouldn't.
Agreed, but if he likes living in Manhattan, then it makes it valid. Maybe?
:dunno:
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It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
The hope in that case is similar to Anderson at MU last year; Georgia offered him much more but he was willing to stay b/c of what he was building there, not wanting to start over, and a bit of loyalty. I think we could ride that for a bit, and I think it will take 3-4 years of success for a sustained bigger program to offer him a lot more. Until then he'll get bigger budget schools coming after him, but with programs that are probably in bad shape. But just like no one really knows what is really going on in negotiations, no one knows who wil come after Frank either.
I haven't seen this yet, but people have to realize that X amount of dollars in Manhattan, KS = X amount of dollars somewhere else.
If some East Coast or West Coast school offers Frank X million, we need to figure out what that actually equals in Manhattan, KS.
1.3 million in Manhattan = 1.5 million in Miami.
1.7 million in Manhattan = 2.0 million in Miami.
It's kind of simplistic thinking, but we need to make sure that fans realize that a perceived "cut" in negotiated salary isn't always a major cut.
I don't think that's a valid argument. There's a reason why it's more expensive to live in some places vs. others. It's because people would rather live there. Any cost of living benefit is offset by quality of living. Now, that's not to say some people wouldn't rather live in Manhattan, KS v. Miami, FL. It's just that most wouldn't.
Agreed, but if he likes living in Manhattan, then it makes it valid. Maybe?
:dunno:
Sure, but what if he LOVES Laramie, WY :ohno:
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It seems to me like an additional 3-4 years might be unrealistic, as long as he continues to have decent success. Let's say that the two sides agreed to a 4/$6M deal. If Martin got an offer a year later for more money at a more prestigous school (and I think that is likely), wouldn't he probably take it? It would be easy for many schools to pay him $2+M per year. But it certainly wouldn't be easy for K-State. I don't see how we keep him for long, regardless of the contract extension we sign him to (unless it has a really big buyout, which, as you pointed out, is unlikely).
The hope in that case is similar to Anderson at MU last year; Georgia offered him much more but he was willing to stay b/c of what he was building there, not wanting to start over, and a bit of loyalty. I think we could ride that for a bit, and I think it will take 3-4 years of success for a sustained bigger program to offer him a lot more. Until then he'll get bigger budget schools coming after him, but with programs that are probably in bad shape. But just like no one really knows what is really going on in negotiations, no one knows who wil come after Frank either.
I haven't seen this yet, but people have to realize that X amount of dollars in Manhattan, KS = X amount of dollars somewhere else.
If some East Coast or West Coast school offers Frank X million, we need to figure out what that actually equals in Manhattan, KS.
1.3 million in Manhattan = 1.5 million in Miami.
1.7 million in Manhattan = 2.0 million in Miami.
It's kind of simplistic thinking, but we need to make sure that fans realize that a perceived "cut" in negotiated salary isn't always a major cut.
I don't think that's a valid argument. There's a reason why it's more expensive to live in some places vs. others. It's because people would rather live there. Any cost of living benefit is offset by quality of living. Now, that's not to say some people wouldn't rather live in Manhattan, KS v. Miami, FL. It's just that most wouldn't.
Agreed, but if he likes living in Manhattan, then it makes it valid. Maybe?
:dunno:
Sure, but what if he LOVES Laramie, WY :ohno:
And why wouldn't he? It's gorgeous.
:runaway:
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The cost of living argument also gets more and more mute when you get into higher incomes. The cost of living makes a big difference for somebody making 80K in Manhattan vs. making 80K in Miami. But when you get up in the millions most of your income is disposable meaning you don't really spend it anyway.
Sure housing is more but you only need one house and even though the house on the East coast costs more it probably ends up being a better investment long term anyway. Prince paid a lot for his house in Manhattan and now he can't sell it probably wouldn't have that trouble in a bigger city. A bar of soap may cost more too but how many bars of soap does a guy need to buy?
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An idea after reading the cost of living talk. Work into the contract use of the Universitie's jet? say X miles allowance for him and the fam?
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After not reading all 16 pages, someone plz tell me how this got to 16 pages. Thx
/message board asshole
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Great idea! We could also do free milk shakes at Grizzly's!
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After not reading all 16 pages, someone plz tell me how this got to 16 pages. Thx
/message board asshole
First guy: This!
Second guy: That!
First guy: Not that!
Second guy: Not not that!
First guy: That but not that like that!
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After not reading all 16 pages, someone plz tell me how this got to 16 pages. Thx
/message board asshole
First guy: This!
Second guy: That!
First guy: Not that!
Second guy: Not not that!
First guy: That but not that like that!
It is called a "message" board for a reason.
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can this thread be moved to Wabash Station? THX
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After not reading all 16 pages, someone plz tell me how this got to 16 pages. Thx
/message board asshole
your not helping.
dambit...neither am I.
lets just say this is a topic where everyone has an opinion and wants to get this guy signed on ASAP. The natives are restless/angry.
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After not reading all 16 pages, someone plz tell me how this got to 16 pages. Thx
/message board asshole
your not helping.
dambit...neither am I.
lets just say this is a topic where everyone has an opinion and wants to get this guy signed on ASAP. The natives are restless/angry.
Ahhh. Texas State is having a similar issue with our head coach in football. He just got us to two straight winning seasons since we were D-2 in the 80's, but they're taking forever on the contract stuff. We just lost our best assistant (who is a Texas State grad) to one of our chief rivals in UTSA, but he only took the same position, offensive coordinator. UTSA won't even field a team until September 2011. Now lots of people think we're not bringing back our head coach because of this...it's a mess :blindfold:
Anyway, I sympathize.
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Just get it done Currie. You can do it without painting yourself into high dollar guaranteed buyouts. You can structure a contract that has stair step buyout clauses that increase over time . . . because if Frank keeps his job that means his doing well right?? You can structure a contract that his stair step pay increases that coincide with performance as well as performance bonuses.
You're just being a chicken$hit about it and I hereby dub thee Timmy Weiser Jr. (you'll have a chance to redeem yourself) until further notice. :buh-bye:
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After not reading all 16 pages, someone plz tell me how this got to 16 pages. Thx
/message board asshole
your not helping.
dambit...neither am I.
lets just say this is a topic where everyone has an opinion and wants to get this guy signed on ASAP. The natives are restless/angry.
Ahhh. Texas State is having a similar issue with our head coach in football. He just got us to two straight winning seasons since we were D-2 in the 80's, but they're taking forever on the contract stuff. We just lost our best assistant (who is a Texas State grad) to one of our chief rivals in UTSA, but he only took the same position, offensive coordinator. UTSA won't even field a team until September 2011. Now lots of people think we're not bringing back our head coach because of this...it's a mess :blindfold:
Anyway, I sympathize.
:rofl:
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After not reading all 16 pages, someone plz tell me how this got to 16 pages. Thx
/message board asshole
your not helping.
dambit...neither am I.
lets just say this is a topic where everyone has an opinion and wants to get this guy signed on ASAP. The natives are restless/angry.
Ahhh. Texas State is having a similar issue with our head coach in football. He just got us to two straight winning seasons since we were D-2 in the 80's, but they're taking forever on the contract stuff. We just lost our best assistant (who is a Texas State grad) to one of our chief rivals in UTSA, but he only took the same position, offensive coordinator. UTSA won't even field a team until September 2011. Now lots of people think we're not bringing back our head coach because of this...it's a mess :blindfold:
Anyway, I sympathize.
Sorry to hear this man
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After not reading all 16 pages, someone plz tell me how this got to 16 pages. Thx
/message board asshole
your not helping.
dambit...neither am I.
lets just say this is a topic where everyone has an opinion and wants to get this guy signed on ASAP. The natives are restless/angry.
Ahhh. Texas State is having a similar issue with our head coach in football. He just got us to two straight winning seasons since we were D-2 in the 80's, but they're taking forever on the contract stuff. We just lost our best assistant (who is a Texas State grad) to one of our chief rivals in UTSA, but he only took the same position, offensive coordinator. UTSA won't even field a team until September 2011. Now lots of people think we're not bringing back our head coach because of this...it's a mess :blindfold:
Anyway, I sympathize.
:rofl:
We're 1-aa. What the fack are ya gonna do :dunno:
You do know that Kansas State is our main rival tho right
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After not reading all 16 pages, someone plz tell me how this got to 16 pages. Thx
/message board asshole
your not helping.
dambit...neither am I.
lets just say this is a topic where everyone has an opinion and wants to get this guy signed on ASAP. The natives are restless/angry.
Ahhh. Texas State is having a similar issue with our head coach in football. He just got us to two straight winning seasons since we were D-2 in the 80's, but they're taking forever on the contract stuff. We just lost our best assistant (who is a Texas State grad) to one of our chief rivals in UTSA, but he only took the same position, offensive coordinator. UTSA won't even field a team until September 2011. Now lots of people think we're not bringing back our head coach because of this...it's a mess :blindfold:
Anyway, I sympathize.
:rofl:
We're 1-aa. What the fack are ya gonna do :dunno:
You do know that Kansas State is our main rival tho right
You're going to have to get in line with all the other teams vying for a possible future rivals status. It's growing by the day, but you may be able to lock up an (honorary) D1-AA spot if you really bring it.
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jfc people are talking about cost of living now, we've hit rock bottom. why doesn't Currie offer Frank $500/mo in petty cash because that's about the only new contract people act like we can afford. Maybe get him a new pair of boots and some gift certs to Applebees. &@#%
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I've tried to stay up to date with this thread since it's started, but I haven't seen any info regarding when this offer was made to Frank.
I've seen speculation that it may have happened before the season, but I don't believe I saw JMart allude one way or another when it happened. JMart, do you have an idea when this $40K raise was offered to him?
My point is that if it was offered to him before the season, then I'm much less concerned than if has been within the last month or two. However, if Frank really was offended, then I'm more inclined to think it was more recent than former.
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Just love how the Ron Prince debacle is making John Currie timid about awarding Frank Martin an extension.
Just epically hilarious fail.
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you Wabash Station South losers.
:powertard: = :KSUFansAppv:
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thanks for merging my thread FITZ and d__scott. say hi to Kellis for me!