Frank's extension

[0709CatGrad]

Two observations:

1:  Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...

2:  Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking?  Horrible idea for two reasons:  you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations.  A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.

I think the key is the timing of the "lowball".  A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.

it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.

I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time.  J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.

'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote.  Great lesson (and film).

Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk:  ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.

Check this out.  If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation:  according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league.  Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players.  Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:

Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.

Hmmm.

You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board.  BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”.  What a waste of time reading all this 

[JTKSU]

Just like everyone, he'd rather have guaranteed money...except for Ricky Williams.

That's what happens when you hire Master P as your agent.

[cireksu]

Two observations:

1:  Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...

2:  Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking?  Horrible idea for two reasons:  you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations.  A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.

I think the key is the timing of the "lowball".  A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.

it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.

I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time.  J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.

'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote.  Great lesson (and film).

Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk:  ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.

Check this out.  If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation:  according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league.  Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players.  Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:

Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.

Hmmm.

You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board.  BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”.  What a waste of time reading all this 

thanks for your input woolyfan0709.

[sonofdaxjones]

Sorry guys it was an early morning in my mega elite resort hotel room . . .

Bottom line . . . at this juncture Frank doesn't deserve anymore than a $2-$300K raise.  

Do something significant in the NCAA he deserves a $4-$500k raise.

[ksu_FAN]

Sorry guys it was an early morning in my mega elite resort hotel room . . .

Bottom line . . . at this juncture Frank doesn't deserve anymore than a $2-$300K raise.  

Do something singificant in the NCAA he deserves a $4-$500k raise.

Sweet.  Just when it looked like this discussion was about to run its course.

 

[JTKSU]

Sorry guys it was an early morning in my mega elite resort hotel room . . .

Bottom line . . . at this juncture Frank doesn't deserve anymore than a $2-$300K raise.  

Do something singificant in the NCAA he deserves a $4-$500k raise.

As long as some other school isn't willing to pay him that type of money.  Can you imagine the meltdown if Frank and Co. make a lateral type of move, simply because it pays more than we felt they are worth?

[Rick Daris]

Sorry guys it was an early morning in my mega elite resort hotel room . . .

Bottom line . . . at this juncture Frank doesn't deserve anymore than a $2-$300K raise.  

Do something singificant in the NCAA he deserves a $4-$500k raise.

really? you want to base that much of your offer based on a single tournament in a single year? just shoot me now please. this is painful.

"elite eight in '10 and we sign martin to a lifetime contract. but if not, then we can do better." -dax

[catzacker]

lmao.  if we passed the ball better and our shorts weren't so baggy, dax would like frank.

[0709CatGrad]

Sorry cire, I think my comments were jaded by the fact I wasted 30+ minutes of my life reading through all 8 pages. I think he obviously deserves more but I personally have no idea what that would/should be.  I am also surprised to see Fatlock saying 1.7 and that, that’s still not enough.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1695275.html

“He walked into a hot mess, the financial and public-relations crisis created by an alleged under-the-table deal with Ron Prince and Bob Krause’s Bernie Madoff School of Athletic Administration.”
 

[ksu_FAN]

Not/can't listen, but from what I've read Kietz repeated $100K raise...

but 40K for Frank, 30K each for Figgs and Undy.  

Is this true?  (what Kietz said, not that his numbers are correct.)

[mikeycat]

it's my understanding this "lowball offer" was made either just prior to or early in the season after some ongoing discussion.    I fully support a contract adjustment at the end of this season, but I think anyone that sits here and says they think Frank deserved a $1.2mil contract based on the first 2 years of results is lying or nuts.

[cireksu]

Sorry cire, I think my comments were jaded by the fact I wasted 30+ minutes of my life reading through all 8 pages. I think he obviously deserves more but I personally have no idea what that would/should be.  I am also surprised to see Fatlock saying 1.7 and that, that’s still not enough.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1695275.html

“He walked into a hot mess, the financial and public-relations crisis created by an alleged under-the-table deal with Ron Prince and Bob Krause’s Bernie Madoff School of Athletic Administration.”
 

whitlock's a dumbass, he's not worth that much now.  I cringed when I read that.

[cireksu]

That's whitlock's preemptive, KSU is too cheap/poor to sustain success and keep coaches around.

[Rick Daris]

it's my understanding this "lowball offer" was made either just prior to or early in the season after some ongoing discussion.    I fully support a contract adjustment at the end of this season, but I think anyone that sits here and says they think Frank deserved a $1.2mil contract based on the first 2 years of results is lying or nuts.

i think it's safe to say that frank and the coaching staff thought they did. looks like they were right. are they liars or nuts? which one?

[cireksu]

anyone listening to 810?

gardnercat wrote:
FYI - Kietz is on talking about this again.  Currie offered 40k/year raise for Frank and 30k/year each for two assistants.  So the 100k wasn't even for Frank alone.  What a joke

[JTKSU]

That's whitlock's preemptive, KSU is too cheap/poor to sustain success and keep coaches around.

That fat bastard just hates that we're having success, so he's just desperately trying to find something negative to write about us.

[mikeycat]

I'm sure everyone in here thinks they deserve a raise.


I think Frank is great, but I also see the side of Frank agreed to a contract for X years at Y dollars.    If KSU wants to give him a nominal raise that's their choice.     A major renegotiation of the contract after 2 years?   Who does that?

This is all based upon the speculation that other schools will come calling.    Fine...if they do, KSU can make him an offer.    If they don't then what?   What if next year we go back to Wooly ball?   Not saying we will, but it's possible.

For a group that complains we overpay Snyder, a man who has 20 years of results and is a proven coach, this argument is disengenuous.

[catzacker]

I'm sure everyone in here thinks they deserve a raise.


I think Frank is great, but I also see the side of Frank agreed to a contract for X years at Y dollars.    If KSU wants to give him a nominal raise that's their choice.     A major renegotiation of the contract after 2 years?   Who does that?

This is all based upon the speculation that other schools will come calling.    Fine...if they do, KSU can make him an offer.    If they don't then what?   What if next year we go back to Wooly ball?   Not saying we will, but it's possible.

For a group that complains we overpay Snyder, a man who has 20 years of results and is a proven coach, this argument is disengenuous.

we should hire Bobby Bowden, right?

[Oklahoma_Cat]

I'm sure everyone in here thinks they deserve a raise.


I think Frank is great, but I also see the side of Frank agreed to a contract for X years at Y dollars.    If KSU wants to give him a nominal raise that's their choice.     A major renegotiation of the contract after 2 years?   Who does that?

This is all based upon the speculation that other schools will come calling.    Fine...if they do, KSU can make him an offer.    If they don't then what?   What if next year we go back to Wooly ball?   Not saying we will, but it's possible.

For a group that complains we overpay Snyder, a man who has 20 years of results and is a proven coach, this argument is disengenuous.

this is why we can't have nice things.   

[WillieWannabe]

where is kietz getting his info?

[JTKSU]

I'm sure everyone in here thinks they deserve a raise.


I think Frank is great, but I also see the side of Frank agreed to a contract for X years at Y dollars.    If KSU wants to give him a nominal raise that's their choice.     A major renegotiation of the contract after 2 years?   Who does that?

This is all based upon the speculation that other schools will come calling.    Fine...if they do, KSU can make him an offer.    If they don't then what?   What if next year we go back to Wooly ball?   Not saying we will, but it's possible.

For a group that complains we overpay Snyder, a man who has 20 years of results and is a proven coach, this argument is disengenuous.

we should hire Bobby Bowden, right?

I really don't think Bobby Bowden would be a logical replacement for Frank Martin.

[sonofdaxjones]

Not that I like his contract.   But Bill Snyder's contract is about 8% of our usual annual income for football.  In addition, approx $140K of his annual salary is paid for by an endowment.

Based on last years revenue, Frank's salary is 15% of the FY 2009 men's basketball income.   I don't believe there's any basketball coaching endowments (there are multiple basketball scholarship endowments FYI).

That's a highly simplestic snapshot that doesn't account for contribution fluctuations due to relative success or lack thereof on the field/court, nor takes into account the relative value of K-State's media and sponsorship contracts.  It also doesn't take into account market flucatioins in endowment value, which in turn influence annual payout from the Foundation to KSU athletics.

[pissclams]

Two observations:

1:  Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...

2:  Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking?  Horrible idea for two reasons:  you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations.  A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.

I think the key is the timing of the "lowball".  A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.

it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.

I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time.  J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.

'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote.  Great lesson (and film).

Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk:  ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.

Check this out.  If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation:  according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league.  Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players.  Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:

Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.

Hmmm.

that looks about right to me, preseason. 

I think the timing of the offer is intentionally vague.  I'd also be curious what Frank's counter-offer was (if one was extended).  Hmmm.

Agreed.

agreed also.  also, petro laid out this discussion similar to how you did Del Trems on  his show today.

[dobbie4ksu]

It is getting to the point where Steve Dave is going to have to suck it up and start man-whoring for the program, get Frank some money that way, I'm just saying

[mcmwcat]

Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.

Hmmm.

that looks about right to me, preseason. 

I think the timing of the offer is intentionally vague.  I'd also be curious what Frank's counter-offer was (if one was extended).  Hmmm.

Agreed.

agreed also.  also, petro laid out this discussion similar to how you did Del Trems on  his show today.

i'm not sure anyone outside Whitlock is arguing for Frank making as much as any of those coaches

[Guscat]

where is kietz getting his info?

I may be wrong, but believe Kietzman referred to his source that he's had inside the AD for 5 basketball coaches.  That would go back through Huggins, Woolridge, Asbury, Altman, and Kruger?  If so, Kietzman painted a target on the back of his source--who's been around since the mid-80's?

Kietzman said he didn't know anything "current" (the 100K was preseason), so he's basically full of baloney and trying to make a story to drive listeners to 810.  Don't fall for it.

[MakeItRain]

Two observations:

1:  Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...

2:  Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking?  Horrible idea for two reasons:  you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations.  A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.

I think the key is the timing of the "lowball".  A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.

it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.

I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time.  J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.

'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote.  Great lesson (and film).

Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk:  ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.

Check this out.  If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation:  according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league.  Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players.  Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:

Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.

Hmmm.

You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board.  BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”.  What a waste of time reading all this 

Hey dumb&@#%, how many of those 6 coaches do you think are better than Frank Martin?  Lets trade Frank for Travis Ford, and Mark Turgeon!  What stupid &@#%ing logic!  You pay your coaches based on how good they are not what somewhat else has done.  Paying someone on their own merits, what a novel concept!  On your job how would like to have your pay based on how fast the pimple faced geek next you flips burgers?  You are great on the fries but Austin is a real wiz on the grill, no raise for you loser.

I'm almost to the point to hoping Frank doesn't get paid, so I can follow whatever school he ends up at.  It's clear that retarded KSU fans are happy with a mediocre football program and could hardly give a crap about basketball.  You want to play this game, compare what the old ass football coach makes for his one damn conference championship when your dumb ass was in high school, to that of his peers.  Is he overpaid, probably should give some back, no?

[mikeycat]

Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.

Hmmm.

that looks about right to me, preseason. 

I think the timing of the offer is intentionally vague.  I'd also be curious what Frank's counter-offer was (if one was extended).  Hmmm.

Agreed.

agreed also.  also, petro laid out this discussion similar to how you did Del Trems on  his show today.

i'm not sure anyone outside Whitlock is arguing for Frank making as much as any of those coaches

Actually they are.   Many here are saying $1.2 to 1.3 mil, which is more than Capel and as much as Turgeon and Ford.
ku   3M
UT   2M
MU   1.55M
OSU   1.3M
A&M   1.2M
OU   1.05M
CU   800k
NU   800K
KSU   760K
ISU   650k
BU   unkown
TT   unkown

[sonofdaxjones]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

[michigancat]

Two observations:

1:  Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...

2:  Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking?  Horrible idea for two reasons:  you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations.  A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.

I think the key is the timing of the "lowball".  A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.

it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.

I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time.  J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.

'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote.  Great lesson (and film).

Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk:  ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.

Check this out.  If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation:  according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league.  Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players.  Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:

Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.

Hmmm.

You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board.  BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”.  What a waste of time reading all this 

Hey dumbfrack, how many of those 6 coaches do you think are better than Frank Martin?  Lets trade Frank for Travis Ford, and Mark Turgeon!  What stupid fracking logic!  You pay your coaches based on how good they are not what somewhat else has done.  Paying someone on their own merits, what a novel concept!  On your job how would like to have your pay based on how fast the pimple faced geek next you flips burgers?  You are great on the fries but Austin is a real wiz on the grill, no raise for you loser.

I'm almost to the point to hoping Frank doesn't get paid, so I can follow whatever school he ends up at.  It's clear that retarded KSU fans are happy with a mediocre football program and could hardly give a crap about basketball.  You want to play this game, compare what the old ass football coach makes for his one damn conference championship when your dumb ass was in high school, to that of his peers.  Is he overpaid, probably should give some back, no?

Personally, I'm just saving my meltdown for when it's really needed.  Think me when we hired old ballz x 1 million.