Frank's extension

[mikeycat]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

that was my exact point above.   Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?

[0709CatGrad]

Two observations:

1:  Assuming the negotiation info came from Frank's camp, which should be a safe assumption, then he's pretty much clowned Currie in this round, which leads to...

2:  Assuming the lowballing info is correct, then what the hell was Currie thinking?  Horrible idea for two reasons:  you basically insult a guy who, all other things being equal, has some loyalty to you institution, *and* you provide a powderkeg to the other side in the negotiations.  A powderkeg that Frank's camp has taken full advantage of to the extent that you've had the two major KC sports media players weigh in on Frank's side--and one even gave out Currie's e-mail on air to lobby for Frank's raise--and now you've got national folks in on the story.

I think the key is the timing of the "lowball".  A lowball offer should not have been insulting before the season began.

it would have been to me. either make a legit offer or don't. insulting to lowball period, regardless of the timing.

I'm saying a modest raise before the season started was a legit offer at that point in time.  J-Mart is conveniently leaving out timing details in all of his posts.

'clams nailed it w/ his jerry macguire anecdote.  Great lesson (and film).

Yeah, my post assumed the lowball details were as has been implied by the media folk:  ~$100,000 offered pretty recently.

Check this out.  If ~$100,000 had been offered before the season, this would have been the situation:  according to the info posted earlier this thread, that would have put Martin's salary somewhere around Pat Knight's, at 7th in the league.  Martin was coming off a NIT 2nd round appearance, with a 2nd round NCAA appearance the year before with 2 NBA players.  Here are the accomplishments of the coaches who would have been making more than Martin at that point:

Self -- National Championship
Barnes -- Final Four
Anderson -- Elite Eight
Ford -- 2nd round NCAA (but Boone Pickens $$)
Turgeon -- Sweet 16 at WSU, 2 NCAA 2nd round at aTm.
Caple -- Elite Eight.

Hmmm.

You know this logical doesn’t work with the tards on this board.  BTW I’m sure JC is looking at every one’s contract suggestion and saying “hmm I never thought of this”.  What a waste of time reading all this 

Hey dumbfrack, how many of those 6 coaches do you think are better than Frank Martin?  Lets trade Frank for Travis Ford, and Mark Turgeon!  What stupid fracking logic!  You pay your coaches based on how good they are not what somewhat else has done.  Paying someone on their own merits, what a novel concept!  On your job how would like to have your pay based on how fast the pimple faced geek next you flips burgers?  You are great on the fries but Austin is a real wiz on the grill, no raise for you loser.

I'm almost to the point to hoping Frank doesn't get paid, so I can follow whatever school he ends up at.  It's clear that retarded KSU fans are happy with a mediocre football program and could hardly give a crap about basketball.  You want to play this game, compare what the old ass football coach makes for his one damn conference championship when your dumb ass was in high school, to that of his peers.  Is he overpaid, probably should give some back, no?

lets step outside u frack!

[Rick Daris]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

 why are you so intent on paying or not paying coaches based strictly off of what they did in one tournament for one specific year? can you not use any other method to try and decide whether a coach and their staff would be worth retaining or not?

[catzacker]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

he's finished in the 4th in the league for 2 years and we're paying him like he's finished in the bottom 4.  and if you can't see he's building a consistent top 4/6 big 12 team, then we shouldn't pay him a dime and fire him right now and find someone that is truly worth 760K...judging by the salaries, that's mcneck, doc, and bzdelik.  you have such a hypocritical stance on an AD being proactive it's hilarious.

[5601js]

where is kietz getting his info?

I may be wrong, but believe Kietzman referred to his source that he's had inside the AD for 5 basketball coaches.  That would go back through Huggins, Woolridge, Asbury, Altman, and Kruger?  If so, Kietzman painted a target on the back of his source--who's been around since the mid-80's?

Kietzman said he didn't know anything "current" (the 100K was preseason), so he's basically full of baloney and trying to make a story to drive listeners to 810.  Don't fall for it.

Did he really admit that? If so, that really changes things for me. Now, if the 100k offer was made within the last few weeks, then I think that's rather absurd.

If 100K was offered at the beginning of the year, I'd say it's AT LEAST tripled since then, and is still climbing. If there really are other schools out there gearing up for a run at him, it's going up even faster.

[Legore]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

that was my exact point above.   Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?

He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level.  When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it.  It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.

Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't.  Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season.  We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.  

[KSUWizard]

I dont know what the big deal is.  You can buy a nice house at Grand Miere and a rocking Escalade for $760k in Manhattan.  Not to mention send your kids to private school and buy your groceries at the whole foods store instead of walmart.   

[michigancat]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

that was my exact point above.   Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?

He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level.  When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it.  It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.

Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't.  Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season.  We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.  

LOL's, love posts like this.  No one, and I mean no one, (except maybe sys after ford's extension) was on the boards talking about extending Frank before the season.  All these tards melting down are acting like you knew we were destined to be in the top 10 before the season started.  LMAO, GMAFB, etc.

[Belvis Noland]

The only FACT in this whole discussion is that nobody knows a damn thing about ADJC's and Frank Martin's discussions behind closed doors.

People are melting down because Keitzman has scared them into thinking Martin is leaving for another school.  

Martin is treated like a king.  Curry is building him a palace of a practice facility.  The only missing piece of the puzzle is a contract between $1.25 - 1.5 million.

Personally, I have faith that Curry is not going to let this goldmine leave town.  The guy comes from UT, for god's sake.  He hired Bruce Pearl.  If anybody knows how important basketball is and how to retain a coach, it's Curry.  Martin might as well be Pearl's identical twin.  

JFC! this fan base makes me sick sometimes.  

[BigCat]

xxxx,

Thanks for your note!

I'm not familiar with the news reports you are refering to, but I totally agree with you on Coach Martin. He's a doing a great job and is a great fit for K-State. While we maintain our commitment to fiscal integrity we need to work hard to do what it takes to take care of him and his family and continue to give him the resources to build the program.

Again, thanks for your note - Go Cats!

John

[sonofdaxjones]

So let me get this straight.

You all know for a fact that just like Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins, John Currie has not even given Frank Martin or his representation a single hint that he would like to discuss Frank's contract situation at some  point in the near future.  You all are saying that John Currie has taken a "kiss the ring . . . you should be thankful that I hired you" approach to Frank Martin . . . as Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins??

Also, why would K-State rush in to give Frank Martin more money, and possibly more guranteed money right this second??  Why wouldn't John Currie initiate the process but take a wait and see approach in terms of how the season plays out.   There's still 12 conference games and a confernce post season tourney to play, and this team can beat anybody, and get beat by anybody.  

[catzacker]

So let me get this straight.

You all know for a fact that just like Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins, John Currie has not even given Frank Martin or his representation a single hint that he would like to discuss Frank's contract situation at some  point in the near future.  You all are saying that John Currie has taken a "kiss the ring . . . you should be thankful that I hired you" approach to Frank Martin . . . as Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins??

no, I'm saying that we have an AD who is doing what Weiser didn't do and you seem to taking the "kiss the ring" approach to frank.

[sonofdaxjones]

So zacker based on some random BS about a pre-season offer for a small increase in salary, John Currie is taking a complete, "Just be happy you have a job" approach to Frank Martin over the last 3 months??

Who are your sources??

[Legore]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

that was my exact point above.   Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?

He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level.  When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it.  It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.

Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't.  Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season.  We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.  

LOL's, love posts like this.  No one, and I mean no one, (except maybe sys after ford's extension) was on the boards talking about extending Frank before the season.  All these tards melting down are acting like you knew we were destined to be in the top 10 before the season started.  LMAO, GMAFB, etc.

Nobody knew we'd be in the top 10 but I was pretty damn sure we'd be a tourney team which was enough for me and most everyone.  My point is you don't give a guy a second contract and keep him at the bottom of the league.   You either decide he's worth more then that or you get rid of him.  The idea of extending a coach and keeping hiim in the bottom four is just absurd to me if he's not worth more then the bottom four after two or three years then he's not worth keeping.  

[D-FRED-BROWN]

As much as I love Frank, I am quite certain that ADJC is waiting for a more impressive accomplishment (don't get me wrong I believe that the win over Texas is impressive enough) to be the catalyst for the extension to Frank's contract, or a substantial increase in his salary.

Its apparent that rankings (as of lately) mean little to ADJC; In my opinion, I really think that he's hoping for a NCAA tournament arrival/success run, or at least a BigXII trophy.

Needless to say, pay the man.  I will send my email tonight.

 

[sonofdaxjones]

I am starting to think that we need to have a "we beat Texas" and also raise a "Top 10 in January" banner right next to it.

[KSUFansPoster495028]

this thread sucks and is boring. anyone want to talk about sports?

[Belvis Noland]

So let me get this straight.

You all know for a fact that just like Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins, John Currie has not even given Frank Martin or his representation a single hint that he would like to discuss Frank's contract situation at some  point in the near future.  You all are saying that John Currie has taken a "kiss the ring . . . you should be thankful that I hired you" approach to Frank Martin . . . as Tim Weiser did to Bob Huggins??

Yeah, I'm picking up on this sentiment as well.  I just have no idea where it's coming from.  Until Monday night (when the scare tactics began), Currie was the best thing at K-State since jean shorts.  

Also, why would K-State rush in to give Frank Martin more money, and possibly more guranteed money right this second??  Why wouldn't John Currie initiate the process but take a wait and see approach in terms of how the season plays out.   There's still 12 conference games and a confernce post season tourney to play, and this team can beat anybody, and get beat by anybody.   They still play an extremely ugly brand of basketball.

I disagree with just about everything here.  Martin is ripe for a contract extension.  He's beaten 3 top 10 teams in his short tenure, 3 top 25 teams this year, and is compiling wins at a faster rate than any coach in the modern era.

There is still a lot of bball to play.  true.  whereas he could lose 7 of 8, he could also win 7 of 8 and go into the tournament with 3 losses, probably putting us in the conversation as the best team in America.  

And I don't think we play an "extremely" ugly brand of basketball. We play hardnosed and physical.  If that's what you mean.  And though our offense has been shaky since MU, we've got the 3rd highest PPG avg. in the league.  

[catzacker]

So zacker based on some random BS about a pre-season offer for a small increase in salary, John Currie is taking a complete, "Just be happy you have a job" approach to Frank Martin over the last 3 months??

Who are your sources??

No, don't be dramatic.  It's obvious that Currie wants to do something to increase frank's compensation (currie has stated this).  It's how he's gone about it that is up for debate.  J-Mart (who started this started this thread) indicated the manner at which he had heard (I'm assuming through sources) that currie was going about it.  My opinion on it is that if he's truly going about it that way, it's the wrong way, given what frank has done, the type of person frank is, and the type of budget we have.

[mikeycat]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

that was my exact point above.   Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?

He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level.  When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it.  It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.

Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't.  Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season.  We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.  

if you are inclined, go dig up the Big 12 salaries from 2007 when Frank was hired.   I bet the average salary was quite a bit lower than it is today.   

[sonofdaxjones]

I am not being dramatic . . .

In addition, we really don't know what's going on.

I for one will be pi$$ed off, if, at the end of the season we finish in the Top 4 in the Big 12, make it to the NCAA and have a nice little run . . . and Frank doesn't get a significant pay raise, and a firm absolute committment to the basketball practice facility replete with formal announcement, and exact dates as to when bids will go out and construction begins.  

However, at this juncture going all fanboy(s) and saying that Currie needs to give the guy a significant pay increase and a new contract right now . . . is stupid.

[Kat Kid]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

that was my exact point above.   Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?

He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level.  When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it.  It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.

Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't.  Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season.  We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.  

if you are inclined, go dig up the Big 12 salaries from 2007 when Frank was hired.   I bet the average salary was quite a bit lower than it is today.   

You think Pat Knight is making more than Bob Knight?

You think Turd is making more than Gillespie (before Kentucky took him?)

Moron.  Go ahead and compare us to Iowa St., CU and NU.  You clearly think that's where we belong.

[BigCat]

So let me get this straight . . . I haven't been listening to Keitzman.

ADJC offered to pay Frank another $40K a year for basically being alive.   If that offer was preseason that's basically what it amounts to.

So now everybody is having a complete meltdown about a preseason pay raise offer to a coach coming off an NIT 2nd round loss??

Fascinating.

that was my exact point above.   Preseason, or even early in this season what exactly had Frank Martin done different since he signed his contract that would warrant a 47% increase?

He had proven that he was a legit big 12 coach that could recruit and win at this level.  When he got his first deal he was unproven and his pay reflected it.  It was fair at the time but we had to know going in that he was either going to flop and we'd can him or he'd show he could coach and he'd get a large increase.

Your logic might make sense if he was already paid what an average big 12 coach makes but he wasn't.  Also I think it was pretty clear what the direction of the program was coming out of last season.  We were 4th in the big 12 with basically everyone back and a top 20 recruiting class coming in.  

if you are inclined, go dig up the Big 12 salaries from 2007 when Frank was hired.   I bet the average salary was quite a bit lower than it is today.   

Very good point MikeyCat. As a matter of fact, Frank's salary at the time of his hire was basically exactly average:

3/8/2007

This is money time in college basketball. Literally.
Sixty-five coaches will lead their teams into the NCAA Division I men's tournament next week, and one will emerge the first Monday in April with a celebratory strand of net and a national championship. Many more, if history holds, will cash in with new or considerably sweetened contracts.

The coaches of six of the tournament's Elite Eight teams a year ago parlayed their success into new deals for this season. They'd have gone 7-for-8, but Billy Donovan of national champion Florida chose to postpone a discussed extension.

Their raises were substantial. At the five schools where raises are public — George Mason, LSU, Memphis, Texas and UCLA — the coaches got a collective bump of about $1.7 million, or about $332,000 each when they extended their contracts. With those new agreements, and others, at least 20 of last year's 65 tournament coaches are making $1 million or more this season, a USA TODAY study finds. Kentucky's Tubby Smith is guaranteed nearly $2.1 million. Texas' Rick Barnes, Ohio State's Thad Matta and Michigan State's Tom Izzo all are pulling down more than $1.7 million.

USA TODAY obtained contracts or other documents detailing salaries for coaches at 58 of the 65 schools in the 2006 tournament field. Their average salary this season: nearly $800,000.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2007-03-08-coaches-salary-cover_N.htm

[BarryMcCockner]

A couple of things:

At a point towards the beginning of the season, Frank mentioned something to the effect that the contract talks were secondary to the practice facility, and he and the administration were focusing on that and would get a contract done in due time.  I'm not sure how that plays into things at present, but I'm pretty sure the facility improvements are damn near dead in the water (which is pretty typical of KSU facility improvements).  Maybe the "leaks" aren't just Franks camp, maybe Currie is in on it as well in an attempt to get some large cash outlays that can be used to fund both.  "Pay up or the coach of your Top 10 team is gone" carries a lot more weight than "Pay up or your top 10 team will have to continue on with the same facilities".

We have no f'n idea what the "lowball" offer really was.  If it was a the alleged 100K base increase, but with some ridiculous incentives (which seems likely when you have an AD wanting to cover his ass, fiscally speaking), maybe they aren't that far apart.  100K raise plus 100K for a top 4 Big 12 finish, 100K for a NCAA bid, (that's over a million there that would be attainable most years), plus more money for Big 12 championships and advancing in the NCAAs, they would have to be getting close.  Don't think for a second that the donors close to the program, the guys who talk to Frank regularly (think Garth, et al), aren't in the loop on this from both sides, WAY moreso then J-Mart or Kietz.  It will get done.

[sonofdaxjones]

Currie on KMAN right now.

Said he talks to Frank all the time, says he wants Frank here, and says Frank tells him he wants to be here . . . and that he'll do everything he can do to keep Frank here.

FWIW.

[BarryMcCockner]

The only FACT in this whole discussion is that nobody knows a damn thing about ADJC's and Frank Martin's discussions behind closed doors.

People are melting down because Keitzman has scared them into thinking Martin is leaving for another school.  

Martin is treated like a king.  Curry is building him a palace of a practice facility.  The only missing piece of the puzzle is a contract between $1.25 - 1.5 million.

Personally, I have faith that Curry is not going to let this goldmine leave town.  The guy comes from UT, for god's sake.  He hired Bruce Pearl.  If anybody knows how important basketball is and how to retain a coach, it's Curry.  Martin might as well be Pearl's identical twin.  

JFC! this fan base makes me sick sometimes.  

Amen.

[BigCat]

Currie on KMAN right now.

Said he talks to Frank all the time, says he wants Frank here, and says Frank tells him he wants to be here . . . and that he'll do everything he can do to keep Frank here.

FWIW.

was he presented with a pointed question about the "it's not frank" rumors or was ADJC just generally musing?

[michigancat]

Did Currie say how much he wants to punch Keitz in the balls?

[BMWJhawk]

My sources are telling me Frank Martin to UConn at the end of the season. 
 

[Kat Kid]

My favorite posters in this thread are the people saying.

"Meh, let's just wait and see.  Curry's got our back.  He's our boy.  Bruce Pearl.  No one knows what's going on, so let's just let this play out before melting down...."

Hey d-bags!  What we say/do &@#%ing matters!  It is no coincidence that Frank references Octagon of Doom, that the University is shelling out Fear the Beard shirts and that Curry was out there doing damage control today.  The entire premise of D1 football/basketball programs is to make &@#%ing money by charging fans &@#%ing money.  Its ok you pussies, you get to have a &@#%ing opinion and if I were you I'd take a good long &@#%ing look at Old Balls, take a good long look at Frank and ask who the &@#% you want in your foxhole.

I don't know if you are unaware, but coaches also sometimes put these stories out there as a way to move the process forward.  You know what kind of coaches do this?  Coaches with &@#%ing leverage.  Frank doesn't have a b-ball practice facility and Frank doesn't have a contract that matches his dick.  Let's get Frank a contract that matches his dick.  Because if he doesn't, then we can get us some Dana Altman dick or some Tim Jank dick, we may even get to hold and lick some Anthony Grant or Dalonte dick, but we are NOT getting Frank's dick to stick around.  You have got to keep Frank's dick &@#%ing happy.

Also, take it from a guy who caught a rising star, lock the crap in early.  When you aren't a 1%'r you don't stand there 'til 35 waiting for a proven winner, you take the young horse with speed that is putting things together.