Frank's extension

[Rick Daris]

My favorite posters are all melting down over rumors, and they are of course all pi$$y because some reasonable people want to let it play out and see what happens . . . and they assume that the reasonable people won't be extremely   if the season continues as it's going now and John Currie doesn't get Frank locked down with a proper contract and compensation.

you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. get out of our way.

[CatMission]

I apologize if this is a repost, but I am very nervous about Frank staying in Manhattan even past this year without a big payday.  The main reason I worry is the University of Miami.  Not only is it home for him and would be the ultimate vindication for the way he was run out of Miami Senior High, but they have lost three straight in the ACC and have yet to play a ranked opponent in the ACC.  And oh, by the way, the U of M AD may know a thing or two about Frank Martin and what he has done at K-State because it is Kirby Freaking Hocutt.

I am planning on making my first ever donation to the Ahearn Fund this week and as soon as I do I will write an email to Currie and Schultz letting them know if they do not sign Frank to an extension with big $, it will be my last.  I know my 3-figure donation doesn't mean a lot in the grand scheme of things, but I have to let my voice be heard.

 

[michigancat]

in relation to contract extensions/raises, if you're giving them out to others, especially those that are in non-profit sports, it's a slap in the face to the guy who's bringing in a million dollars of profit last year.  regardless if they just got $1 more. 

Not really.

ku overpaying for gill isn't ksu's problem.  snyder was getting 1.58 in 2004 http://cjonline.com/stories/092804/bre_snyder.shtml. 

I was mistaken - I thought he made $2 million back in the day.  Still, he's in the bottom half of the league today.  Which is fair, and shouldn't be insulting to anyone.

so we agreed to snyder's contract/extension/raise in september (so we had to have f'ing budgeted for that) yet we don't have anything for frank?  currie just thought "ya know, we're going to be dogcrap this year in basketball, so we won't need to do anything for frank".  hell, I wasn't completely sold, but (before the season...and before fort hays, lol) I thought we'd be in the top 6, if we did well, top 4 again.  but we'd continue to pay him like he's greg f'ing mcdermott?

HE WAS OFFERED A RAISE!  JFC, just because it was under a million (which is all I believe, LMAO if you believe anything Keitz is saying) doesn't mean it wasn't serious.  And there was nothing to convince me that we were some sort of lock for top 6.

And even if he did make a low-ball offer, at least he made an offer. 

no. just flat out no. you are incredibly wrong here.

ex.-i know someone who is thinking about selling their house. i decide to call them before they get a realtor. i offer them 85,000 dollars for their 150,000 dollar house. they hang up the phone and go "jesus f^cking christ honey. daris from down the block just offered us 85,000. what a douche. i told him we'd think about it though. what's that realtors number again?"

it is insulting if they offered him that. do you honestly think that offering him an extra 40,000 two months ago was a good thing to do?

LOL @ meltdowns based on Keitz facts. 

[Kat Kid]

I also say that if there's any truth to Currie "wanting his own guy" in light of where the program is now, than he's just not a very smart guy.   Any smart AD only wants "his own guy" when things are going badly. 

Plus, I can't for the life of me think of who that would be, outside of some massive SLTH types . . . and if that happens I'll be the first to call for Currie's resignation.

I've tried to contemplate how any of that could even be remotely true. . . and the only thing I can think of is Currie might not like Frank's style . . . but there's nothing about Frank that isn't 100% EMAW. 

I think the "Curry wanting his own guy" talk is just inference, and bad inference at that.  I think this is all about how much we can pay Frank and when Currie can/wants to get it done. 

And I think Kietz has blown this up bigger than it is, but that's why he's the best.

I've had my glass of red with dinner and calmed some and let me just say the following:

I KNOW Kietz has blown this up bigger than it is.  I KNOW I am blowing this up bigger than it is.  There is a reason for that, I want this crap done and I want the pressure on Currie to do so.  I won't pretend Kietz has the same pious calculus in the matter, but I appreciate the net effect. 

I could give two craps if Currie has handled these negotiations masterfully and Frank is making some crude power play for more money.  I would rather have an overpaid, happy Frank than an unhappy Frank; impending coaching search or not.  I don't care if Currie is "doing his job" he is not to be &@#%ing trusted. 

Currie is to be controlled and have his feet to the fire at all times.  The more he knows he is a replaceable crap, the more motivated he will be to leave a legacy.

[ksu_FAN]

I've had my glass of red with dinner and calmed some and let me just say the following:

I KNOW Kietz has blown this up bigger than it is.  I KNOW I am blowing this up bigger than it is.  There is a reason for that, I want this crap done and I want the pressure on Currie to do so.  I won't pretend Kietz has the same pious calculus in the matter, but I appreciate the net effect. 

I could give two craps if Currie has handled these negotiations masterfully and Frank is making some crude power play for more money.  I would rather have an overpaid, happy Frank than an unhappy Frank; impending coaching search or not.  I don't care if Currie is "doing his job" he is not to be fracking trusted. 

Currie is to be controlled and have his feet to the fire at all times.  The more he knows he is a replaceable crap, the more motivated he will be to leave a legacy.

Red.  Nice.

I pretty much agree with what you said.  And I think in many ways Kietz as a K-State fan used his platform to get this done.  Bravo to Kietz for doing so.

[mikeycat]

Bottom line:  IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is.   That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.

But I don't buy it.   I don't think Frank leaked this.   Whether this was a story some knew about and decided to blow up in the wake of the Texas game, or someone in the AD's office told someone I don't know.   But the Frank Martin I've seen for the last 3 years is always intently focused on the task at hand.   I have heard him say during interviews when people have asked him about upcoming big games that he is looking at the next game, nothing more.    I can't imagine that in a week when he got no sleep between the CU and UT games that the notion of quibbling over his contract mid-season ever entered his mind.

So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here.  A single source.   While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.

To get all bent out of shape over a contract that isn't your own, over a supposed lowball offer that seems based on previous reports to date back to preseason or early in the non-con, with terms that are unvalidated, is asinine.   Has it occured to anyone that perhaps this preseason offer was a gesture by Curry to say, "hey, I just got here, and I see you've got a contract for $760k and I think that's a little low....here's some more, and we'll talk again after the season"?

Frank will get a raise in due time.   And that time is after the season when he has the time to focus on it and not let it interfere with his team's preparation for games.   If that means he's won the Big 12 or won some tourney games, then that means we may have to pay him a little more, but by everyone's standards, then he'd be worth it.  If come then KSU has gone on losing skid, and Frank settles for 900k, so be it.

Now is NOT the time.

[Bookcat]

Frank will get a raise in due time.   And that time is after the season

nope. Needs to be done now.

[fatty fat fat]

I hate Snyder as much as the next guy,

[Kat Kid]

Bottom line:  IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is.   That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.

But I don't buy it.   I don't think Frank leaked this.   Whether this was a story some knew about and decided to blow up in the wake of the Texas game, or someone in the AD's office told someone I don't know.   But the Frank Martin I've seen for the last 3 years is always intently focused on the task at hand.   I have heard him say during interviews when people have asked him about upcoming big games that he is looking at the next game, nothing more.    I can't imagine that in a week when he got no sleep between the CU and UT games that the notion of quibbling over his contract mid-season ever entered his mind.

So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here.  A single source.   While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.

To get all bent out of shape over a contract that isn't your own, over a supposed lowball offer that seems based on previous reports to date back to preseason or early in the non-con, with terms that are unvalidated, is asinine.

Frank will get a raise in due time.   And that time is after the season when he has the time to focus on it and not let it interfere with his team's preparation for games.   If that means he's won the Big 12 or won some tourney games, then that means we may have to pay him a little more, but by everyone's standards, then he'd be worth it.  If come then KSU has gone on losing skid, and Frank settles for 900k, so be it.

Now is NOT the time.

You're kind of being an idiot.  I mean we've tried to help you out here and you can either choose to reflect on it, read up a little before posting again, or you can pretty much just gtfoomf and plan on some serious, personal ridicule.

[mikeycat]

Bottom line:  IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is.   That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.

But I don't buy it.   I don't think Frank leaked this.   Whether this was a story some knew about and decided to blow up in the wake of the Texas game, or someone in the AD's office told someone I don't know.   But the Frank Martin I've seen for the last 3 years is always intently focused on the task at hand.   I have heard him say during interviews when people have asked him about upcoming big games that he is looking at the next game, nothing more.    I can't imagine that in a week when he got no sleep between the CU and UT games that the notion of quibbling over his contract mid-season ever entered his mind.

So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here.  A single source.   While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.

To get all bent out of shape over a contract that isn't your own, over a supposed lowball offer that seems based on previous reports to date back to preseason or early in the non-con, with terms that are unvalidated, is asinine.

Frank will get a raise in due time.   And that time is after the season when he has the time to focus on it and not let it interfere with his team's preparation for games.   If that means he's won the Big 12 or won some tourney games, then that means we may have to pay him a little more, but by everyone's standards, then he'd be worth it.  If come then KSU has gone on losing skid, and Frank settles for 900k, so be it.

Now is NOT the time.

You're kind of being an idiot.  I mean we've tried to help you out here and you can either choose to reflect on it, read up a little before posting again, or you can pretty much just gtfoomf and plan on some serious, personal ridicule.

oh by all means little 12yo douchebag, enlighten me.    You nor I nor anyone on this fracking board know the details of this.   If you dumbfracks haven't learned over the last 10 years to take anything Kietzman says with a grain of salt, then you're even stupider than I thought.

[fatty fat fat]

Bottom line:  IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is.   That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.

 

Seriously, why are people even remotely defending jon currie? that tard has done NOTHING. he has zero track record. I'm guessing it has everything to do with the fact he's white, good looking, and speaks well.

[mikeycat]

Bottom line:  IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is.   That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.

 

Seriously, why are people even remotely defending jon currie? that tard has done NOTHING. he has zero track record. I'm guessing it has everything to do with the fact he's white, good looking, and speaks well.

Seriously?   What world do you live in?   The man has been here a FEW MONTHS and I for one think he's done a decent job at bringing new life into the department.    The promotions and perks being offered are far above what Wieser and Krause were doing.   I think it's refreshing and has helped a great deal.    Fans wanted cheaper tickets, they got them.   Fans wanted more transparency, they got it.    Fans wanted a Beard Out, they got it.

I know most of you are still college kids, but grow the &@#% up.

[fatty fat fat]

The promotions and perks being offered are far above what Wieser and Krause were doing.   I think it's refreshing and has helped a great deal.    Fans wanted cheaper tickets, they got them.   Fans wanted more transparency, they got it.    Fans wanted a Beard Out, they got it.

 

Seriously? That's it. A beard out?

[mikeycat]

The promotions and perks being offered are far above what Wieser and Krause were doing.   I think it's refreshing and has helped a great deal.    Fans wanted cheaper tickets, they got them.   Fans wanted more transparency, they got it.    Fans wanted a Beard Out, they got it.

 

Seriously? That's it. A beard out?

hey, you guys are the one's that came up with it.


BTW, how much do YOU contribute to the Ahearn Fund?

[Leyton]

So...bluster, bluster, bluster.  Who here can devise a practical solution to this problem (i.e., forcing Currie's hand) by setting up an online grassroots fund raising campaign?  There must be a tool out there on the interwebs that allows people to make pledges contingent upon certain events (like a coach getting a raise and contract extension) taking place.  This tool should have a fun little meter in bright colors that makes it very clear how big John/Jon Currie's "give-Frank-a-raise" check will be if he pulls the trigger.  Make it so!

[sys]

it is insulting if they offered him that. do you honestly think that offering him an extra 40,000 two months ago was a good thing to do?

No, but it beats the "Martin already has a contract and we will look at where he's at after the season" approach that Weiser would have taken. 

And I think it was probably qualified.  I think it was informal.  I think it was more "Frank, I'd like to redo your deal and take care of your assistants and this is what I can do...." type of deal.  I really think Kietz has blown it up to be a bigger deal than it probably is. 

_fan, you know i love you, but you are completely wrong on this, and daris is completely right.  there are a lot of reasons to offer to renegotiate with a coach expected to garner better offers in the future, but they all are essentially variations on making the coach so happy and appreciative with his current situ that he isn't interested in listening to other offers, and other parties (be they recruits or ads) perceive him to be unlikely to listen to other offers.

extending a lowball offer is completely retarded because it accomplishes none of that.  it actually does the opposite.  it projects to other ads that kstate is cheap and/or poor and can be outbid.  it tells the coach that either the school employing him values him no more than any other random coach with the same resume, or they're trying to screw him.

if you aren't going to offer the coach something that makes him feel particularly appreciated and valued, there is no point in renegotiating.  just make verbally stroke the coach, tell him you will never be outbid and save up to beat any offers he eventually gets.

[doom]

Bottom line:  IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is.   That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.

But I don't buy it.   I don't think Frank leaked this.   Whether this was a story some knew about and decided to blow up in the wake of the Texas game, or someone in the AD's office told someone I don't know.   But the Frank Martin I've seen for the last 3 years is always intently focused on the task at hand.   I have heard him say during interviews when people have asked him about upcoming big games that he is looking at the next game, nothing more.    I can't imagine that in a week when he got no sleep between the CU and UT games that the notion of quibbling over his contract mid-season ever entered his mind.

So far ALL of the speculation seems to be sourced back to JMArt's post here.  A single source.   While typically he has been reliable, he is no longer plugged into KSU as he once was.

To get all bent out of shape over a contract that isn't your own, over a supposed lowball offer that seems based on previous reports to date back to preseason or early in the non-con, with terms that are unvalidated, is asinine.   Has it occured to anyone that perhaps this preseason offer was a gesture by Curry to say, "hey, I just got here, and I see you've got a contract for $760k and I think that's a little low....here's some more, and we'll talk again after the season"?

Frank will get a raise in due time.   And that time is after the season when he has the time to focus on it and not let it interfere with his team's preparation for games.   If that means he's won the Big 12 or won some tourney games, then that means we may have to pay him a little more, but by everyone's standards, then he'd be worth it.  If come then KSU has gone on losing skid, and Frank settles for 900k, so be it.

Now is NOT the time.

Both Frank and Jmart have motivation for this to come out now.  Either motivation could be reason.  Jmart is MUCH more connected than you think.  Accodring to Occam's Razor the simplest answer is the most likely one.  The simplest answer if that the athletic department is &@#%ing this up.  

[ksu_FAN]

_fan, you know i love you, but you are completely wrong on this, and daris is completely right.  there are a lot of reasons to offer to renegotiate with a coach expected to garner better offers in the future, but they all are essentially variations on making the coach so happy and appreciative with his current situ that he isn't interested in listening to other offers, and other parties (be they recruits or ads) perceive him to be unlikely to listen to other offers.

extending a lowball offer is completely retarded because it accomplishes none of that.  it actually does the opposite.  it projects to other ads that kstate is cheap and/or poor and can be outbid.  it tells the coach that either the school employing him values him no more than any other random coach with the same resume, or they're trying to screw him.

if you aren't going to offer the coach something that makes him feel particularly appreciated and valued, there is no point in renegotiating.  just make verbally stroke the coach, tell him you will never be outbid and save up to beat any offers he eventually gets.

Can't disagree with any of that.  I think it was a bad move to make the offer like he did, even if it was before the season.  Perhaps Currie was just thinking that getting it up to 800K would "look better".  Even so, an ill-advise move.  Good points there.

[BigCat]

Frank:  $1.76-$2m base
'Te:     $575k base
Everyone else: 20% raise (40% for Greenawalt)

[LimestoneOutcropping]

Bottom line:  IF Frank is the source of this leak and Frank is more concerned about bucks in the same week he's beat the #1 team and is preparing for the rest of conference play, then maybe Frank isn't the man we think he is.   That would have to be a pretty greedy SOB.

 

Seriously, why are people even remotely defending jon currie? that tard has done NOTHING. he has zero track record. I'm guessing it has everything to do with the fact he's white, good looking, and speaks well.

I'm not weighing in on the Frank thing because my $$ does the talking on that issue, but I do have to say mr. Currie doesn;t speak all that well.  Seen him multiuple times and he has not impressed. 

[jsstuber]

Is it possible that Frank realizes he will get an offer and is more focused on his the team then a new contract?  Therefore the contract talks aren't happening right now.   He's obviously a confident person and probably knows he's going to get paid.  If I'm in his position and know what this team is capable of, I'm not talking until we win the Big 12, beat ku, make it to an elite 8, etc.  If he does this now he's leaving money on the table. JMO

[Pete]

Mikeycat sounds mean to me.   

[doom]

Frank:  $1.76-$2m base
'Te:     $575k base
Everyone else: 20% raise (40% for Greenawalt)

I think Te already makes an enormous salary.  We could round it to 500k without pissing me off, but we could also use the money for Greenawalt or Figger.

I think 1.5 to frank with the explaination that the other half a mill is going to help break ground on his practice facility.  

Is it possible that Frank realizes he will get an offer and is more focused on his the team then a new contract?  Therefore the contract talks aren't happening right now.   He's obviously a confident person and probably knows he's going to get paid.  If I'm in his position and know what this team is capable of, I'm not talking until we win the Big 12, beat ku, make it to an elite 8, etc.  If he does this now he's leaving money on the table. JMO

Jmart probably did not pull this from nowhere so no your dream scenario where Frank is doing this for free for the good ole folk of Kansas is not possible.

[ksu_FAN]

Let's not be crazy here.  We just need to make Frank is in the upper 3rd of the this league.  1.7-2.0 mil is a bit much at this point. 

[chum1]

Good to see so many finally waking up to the reality of our situation with totally small time AD.  Now do you understand why moving to the Mountain West is the way to go?

[Belvis Noland]

Frank:  $1.76-$2m base
'Te:     $575k base
Everyone else: 20% raise (40% for Greenawalt)

Uhhh.. yeah.  we'll see.  that's a lot of coin.   1.5 is fair for Frank.  He's been great thus far, but his tenure has been short.  'Te is already the highest paid assistant in the country and, for all intents and purposes, he does zero coaching.  I have no idea what Brad and Figgers make, but at the same time, I don't really care.  They're assistants.  Greenawalt (40%?)  Seriously? 

You must be really good at Monopoly. 

[KSUTOMMY]

I think that incentive-laden contracts are out as there are crazy-ass schools who will dish out the coin (ND football) on a gamble. I have been calling for Frank to be locked down since last yr - I just like his freaking no BS attitude and I thought he was a lot like Huggs in his coaching style which is appealing to me. Pay the dude where he is inline with the Mike Andersons of the world and throw some bonus at him for Big 12 tourney and NCAA tourney success and be done with it.
Daris, GREAT MF point with the slap in the face thing.

One last shout out, I have been anticipating another one of Kat Kid's meltdowns for a while - NEVER do they disappoint! Love you man!

[michigancat]

_fan, you know i love you, but you are completely wrong on this, and daris is completely right.  there are a lot of reasons to offer to renegotiate with a coach expected to garner better offers in the future, but they all are essentially variations on making the coach so happy and appreciative with his current situ that he isn't interested in listening to other offers, and other parties (be they recruits or ads) perceive him to be unlikely to listen to other offers.

extending a lowball offer is completely retarded because it accomplishes none of that.  it actually does the opposite.  it projects to other ads that kstate is cheap and/or poor and can be outbid.  it tells the coach that either the school employing him values him no more than any other random coach with the same resume, or they're trying to screw him.

if you aren't going to offer the coach something that makes him feel particularly appreciated and valued, there is no point in renegotiating.  just make verbally stroke the coach, tell him you will never be outbid and save up to beat any offers he eventually gets.

Before the season, what would be your cutoff between insulting offer and non-insulting offer as a starting point in negotiations?

[nicname]

Frank will get his raise, and he will be one of the top 4 paid coaches in the league. I doubt there will be a raise for 'Te, and it isn't really warranted.  I would bet that our other assistants recieve slight raises though.  

[Belvis Noland]

what would be your cutoff between insulting offer and non-insulting offer as a starting point in negotiations?

I heard we will be offering 6 million a year for 27 years.  It will be the largest coaching contract in the history of sports. 


Discuss.