Frank's extension

[michigancat]

I've been a fan of sh*tty KSU basketball before, I can do it again.

Why accept that?

You were a fan of sh*tty KSU basketball because of the hope of where the program is now. So you are here but wouldn't mind going back to the days of dreaming?

I accept it because I don't have millions of dollars and therefore can't do anything but accept it. 

[JohnnyUtah]

I've been a fan of sh*tty KSU basketball before, I can do it again.

This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.

In the mean while, let's enjoy what we have going and hope it lasts.

uhhhh, no. and f^ck you while we're at it. you and people that think like this are part of the problem.

[Bookcat]

Frank and Co are just about total goners, IMHO.  It might be another year or two before Indiana or UCLA can scrape together $3M to take him, but it will happen.  In the meantime, doubling his salary would be a nice gesture to at least make him consider being loyal to K-State.  Structure it with a huge buyout and give him a 5+ year deal.

I'd be happy with this and two more seasons and then Frank moving on...but I'm talking about Frank and staff bolting after this year and leaving us with zilch. Judge, McGruder, Russell, Irving, JHR would all probably look to transfer.

[a_meek]

A couple other points ...

1. I've been led to believe the practice facility is as important as the money. Bottom line, Frank wants to know K-State is willing to commit to basketball.

2. K-State looks silly for announcing a contract extension for Patterson while waffling on Frank. It's more the principle than the money.

3. Frank holds all the cards in this negotiation. The longer it goes on, the more his value goes up. I'm sure he knows that.

[Bookcat]

A couple other points ...

1. I've been led to believe the practice facility is as important as the money. Bottom line, Frank wants to know K-State is willing to commit to basketball.

2. K-State looks silly for announcing a contract extension for Patterson while waffling on Frank. It's more the principle than the money.

3. Frank holds all the cards in this negotiation. The longer it goes on, the more his value goes up. I'm sure he knows that.

thank you for bringing up the point about Deb Patterson's contract. She got everything she wanted  didn't she?

Meanwhile we're stalling on Frank. Unbelievable.

[Andy]

if nothing else, its good to just get this out in the open rather than be left wondering if/when frank leaves and feeling like we couldnt do anything.  I'm holding out hope here--but let there be no doubt my family's season tix are certainly in the balance.

[BigCat]

commanding email sent. will keep it up until I hear back.

[AzCat]

This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.

Ummm, no.  But thanks for demonstrating why KSU's College of Business Administration isn't exactly known for turning out high powered alumni.  

As Meek pointed out below: the longer this goes on the stronger Frank's position is likely to become.  The man could go 7-5 the rest of the way, win one each in the Big XII Tourney and NCAAs and easily double his salary at any major that happens to be in the market for a winning hoops program.  He has already proven himself as a recruiter and a coach, anything else he does this season is just gravy from his agent's perspective. The only way that dynamic changes is if: a) the team completely implodes; and/or b) Martin punches a player in the face during a televised game.  Otherwise Currie's delay is merely compounding KSU's financial problems because Martin's leverage is getting stronger by the second.  

Typically "classic negotiating" involves a strategy for putting oneself in a better, rather than worse, situation through the application of superior information or skill (hint: this can be characterized by the leverage in the negotiations becoming relatively stronger for your side rather than the other side as is the case here).  KSU wins only if Martin becomes toxic but not so toxic as to preclude his retention.  That's not skill or superior information, that's praying for a miracle.

Pay the man Currie.  And do it right fracking now.

EDIT:  KSU might also want to keep in mind the fact that if Martin beats ku on the 30th we might not be able to afford him. 

In fairness to the earlier poster this is a classic strategy, a classic KSU Athletic Department strategy: load weapon, aim at foot, pull trigger, repeat as necessary.

[ksu_FAN]

This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.

Ummm, no.  But thanks for demonstrating why KSU's College of Business Administration isn't exactly known for turning out high powered alumni. 

As Meek pointed out below: the longer this goes on the stronger Frank's position is likely to become.  The man could go 7-5 the rest of the way, win one each in the Big XII Tourney and NCAAs and easily double his salary at any major that happens to be in the market for a winning hoops program.  He has already proven himself as a recruiter and a coach, anything else he does this season is just gravy from his agent's perspective. The only way that dynamic changes is if: a) the team completely implodes; and/or b) Martin punches a player in the face during a televised game.  Otherwise Currie's delay is merely compounding KSU's financial problems because Martin's leverage is getting stronger by the second. 

Typically "classic negotiating" involves a strategy for putting oneself in a better, rather than worse, situation through the application of superior information or skill (hint: this can be characterized by the leverage in the negotiations becoming relatively stronger for your side rather than the other side as is the case here).  KSU wins only if Martin becomes toxic but not so toxic as to preclude his retention.  That's not skill or superior information, that's praying for a miracle.


Pay the man Currie.  And do it right fracking now.

Good stuff.  Welcome to the board Mr. AzCat.

[~WabashRoll~]

Here you go.  This is the best I have been able to compile, some of this information is over a year old, as Mike Anderson was given a raise last year and he's closer to the $2 million mark.  Feel free to correct any of this.

Bottom line, for a coach that won 20+ and has finished in the top 4 in this league each of the last three years, and will have us in the Dance two of his first three seasons, he should be making top 4 money.  Period.  End of story.  It is a travesty that clowns like Travis Ford and Mark Turgeon receive this sort of compensation and Frank doesn't.


1.  Self:  $3 million  


2.  Rick Barnes - $2 million


3.  Mike Anderson - $1.3 million


4.  Travis Ford - $1.3 million


5.  Mark Turgeon - $1.2 million


6.  Jeff Caple - $1.05 million


7.  Pat Knight - Big XII median salary


8.  Jeff Bzdelik - $800,000


9.  Doc Sadler - $800,000


10.  Frank Martin - $760,000


11.  Greg McDermott - $650,000


12.  Scott Drew - $600,000

[FHSU92]

$760k is not bad for a HS coach who runs a terrible offense, amirite?

[steve dave]

This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.

Ummm, no.  But thanks for demonstrating why KSU's College of Business Administration isn't exactly known for turning out high powered alumni. 

As Meek pointed out below: the longer this goes on the stronger Frank's position is likely to become.  The man could go 7-5 the rest of the way, win one each in the Big XII Tourney and NCAAs and easily double his salary at any major that happens to be in the market for a winning hoops program.  He has already proven himself as a recruiter and a coach, anything else he does this season is just gravy from his agent's perspective. The only way that dynamic changes is if: a) the team completely implodes; and/or b) Martin punches a player in the face during a televised game.  Otherwise Currie's delay is merely compounding KSU's financial problems because Martin's leverage is getting stronger by the second. 

Typically "classic negotiating" involves a strategy for putting oneself in a better, rather than worse, situation through the application of superior information or skill (hint: this can be characterized by the leverage in the negotiations becoming relatively stronger for your side rather than the other side as is the case here).  KSU wins only if Martin becomes toxic but not so toxic as to preclude his retention.  That's not skill or superior information, that's praying for a miracle.


Pay the man Currie.  And do it right fracking now.

I agree with this guy ^

[JohnnyUtah]

Frank should be paid more than Turd, no doubt in my mind.

[steve dave]

New GPC talking point:  Frank after Texas win = Prince after Texas win

I honestly think those dumbf^cks want us to suck at basketball.
 

[michigancat]

New GPC talking point:  Frank after Texas win = Prince after Texas win

I honestly think those dumbf^cks want us to suck at basketball.
 

WELL, IF I HAD TO CHOOSE I'D CHOOSE BEING GOOD AT FOOTBALL. ISWT

[ltrain37]

New GPC talking point:  Frank after Texas win = Prince after Texas win

I honestly think those dumbf^cks want us to suck at basketball.
 

 

[montywildcat]

This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.

In the mean while, let's enjoy what we have going and hope it lasts.

uhhhh, no. and f^ck you while we're at it. you and people that think like this are part of the problem.

I hope you feel better now. If you want to blame me and curse me, then go ahead, I've heard worse. Just realize we're on the same side.

Its obvious Frank's contract should have been renewed by now. If you need to yell and curse at someone, I would encourage you to find a way to direct it at the people who are providing the financing.

[montywildcat]

This is classic negotiating. School of Business students should take notes.

Ummm, no.  But thanks for demonstrating why KSU's College of Business Administration isn't exactly known for turning out high powered alumni.  

As Meek pointed out below: the longer this goes on the stronger Frank's position is likely to become.  The man could go 7-5 the rest of the way, win one each in the Big XII Tourney and NCAAs and easily double his salary at any major that happens to be in the market for a winning hoops program.  He has already proven himself as a recruiter and a coach, anything else he does this season is just gravy from his agent's perspective. The only way that dynamic changes is if: a) the team completely implodes; and/or b) Martin punches a player in the face during a televised game.  Otherwise Currie's delay is merely compounding KSU's financial problems because Martin's leverage is getting stronger by the second.  

Typically "classic negotiating" involves a strategy for putting oneself in a better, rather than worse, situation through the application of superior information or skill (hint: this can be characterized by the leverage in the negotiations becoming relatively stronger for your side rather than the other side as is the case here).  KSU wins only if Martin becomes toxic but not so toxic as to preclude his retention.  That's not skill or superior information, that's praying for a miracle.

Pay the man Currie.  And do it right fracking now.

EDIT:  KSU might also want to keep in mind the fact that if Martin beats ku on the 30th we might not be able to afford him. 

In fairness to the earlier poster this is a classic strategy, a classic KSU Athletic Department strategy: load weapon, aim at foot, pull trigger, repeat as necessary.

I am talking about the negotiation from Martin's point of view. Don't you find it odd our former beat writer pulled us into this conversation today?

So, let me BLUNT. Take notes on how Martin is owning this negotiation. That is what's classic here.

[yoga-lika_abana]

I was sitting on this information, but given last night's developments, I'd say it's time to spill.

There seems to be some hesitancy by the current athletic director to give Frank a significant raise. Negotiations are on-going, and while I'm not going to get into specific numbers, what he's been offered is still under $1M per season. There has been the suggestion that Frank hasn't done anything just yet to warrant a bigger raise, but again, given last night's developments, the atmosphere at the Octagon and how the Wildcats are legitimately national media darlings, I tend to disagree with that.

It's almost as if the current athletic director is daring Frank to leave or attempting to force his hand, as if he has someone else in mind to bring in when or if that happens. This, of course, is conjecture on my part, but actions - or lack thereof - speak loudly, no?

The man deserves a raise.

have not read anything else other than this post.

I applaud Curry this is how actual AD's do it. Where the hell else is Frank going to go unless something opens up on the East Coast he's not going to get a bigger program type job this early in his career he will either make more money and to a lateral program. Or curry and Co. will meet in the middle. This is how its done not just throwing money and incentives right away.

[BigCat]

Can someone email Garth and make sure this angry gets heard?

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Too much   in this thread for my taste.

It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).

So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.

IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing.  Checks do.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

I am talking about the negotiation from Martin's point of view. Don't you find it odd our former beat writer pulled us into this conversation today?

So, let me BLUNT. Take notes on how Martin is owning this negotiation. That is what's classic here.

I understood what you were saying (and what's happening here).  Everyone wins IF the AD gets more money coming in as a result, though...

[MakeItRain]

you don't need to email Garth a thing, he knows full well that Frank needs to be paid he isn't willing to just trust Currie like the tards, he has more at stake than most, that man has spent a lot of money on KSU Basketball.

[michigancat]

Too much  in this thread for my taste.

It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).

So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.

IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing.  Checks do.

Honestly, I agree w/ everything, except I think he's probably worth about $1.5M at this point.

[MakeItRain]

Too much   in this thread for my taste.

It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).

So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.

IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing.  Checks do.

So you're saying that this summer when Currie took the job and promptly handed out cash to Snyder and Patterson, Frank Martin still deserved to be 10th in the conference in coaching salaries?

Surely you jest, if not GTFOOMF football fan!

[michigancat]

So you're saying that this summer when Currie took the job and promptly handed out cash to Snyder and Patterson, Frank Martin still deserved to be 10th in the conference in coaching salaries?

Surely you jest, if not GTFOOMF football fan!

Snyder and Patterson had real track records (although I hate the snyder contract).  Frank did not.

[MakeItRain]

So you're saying that this summer when Currie took the job and promptly handed out cash to Snyder and Patterson, Frank Martin still deserved to be 10th in the conference in coaching salaries?

Surely you jest, if not GTFOOMF football fan!

Snyder and Patterson had real track records (although I hate the snyder contract).  Frank did not.

Snyder had not been to a bowl game in 6 years.  He should get credit for something he did when the current athletes were in junior high?  Patterson did not need the deal, she isn't going anywhere.  Frankly OB didn't need it either.

[lifelongcat02]

A couple other points ...

1. I've been led to believe the practice facility is as important as the money. Bottom line, Frank wants to know K-State is willing to commit to basketball.

2. K-State looks silly for announcing a contract extension for Patterson while waffling on Frank. It's more the principle than the money.

3. Frank holds all the cards in this negotiation. The longer it goes on, the more his value goes up. I'm sure he knows that.

I've seen the plans on the practice facility.  The way I understood it I thought they would be announcing it was moving forward sometime after the first of the year.  Anyway, it appeared they would be adding 2 courts to the east side of the octogon.

[catzacker]

Too much   in this thread for my taste.

It would've been stupid to pay Martin more than he's making before this season (pretty crappy resume), and it would be stupid not to raise his salary now (pretty impressive track record).

So, either KSU will now pay Martin what he's worth (~$1.2M), or KSU doesn't have enough money left in the bank after the Krauserape of the Athletic Department to pay Martin waht he's worth.
IMHO, letters and e-mails accomplish nearly nothing.  Checks do.

this talking point is complete and utter bullsh*t.  currie's f'ing job and/or what he's responsible for is getting people to donate money.  he's got a staff assigned to do so.  it's their f'ing jobs.  the cost not to find a way to keep Frank (along with all the momentum he's created) is more than paying him what he's worth.  we gave the goddamn dyke and grandpa a f'ing contract extension/raise.  what kind of f'ing planning was that on currie's part?  currie better hope to christ that he and his staff can get boosters and/or find the money or it is his f'ing ass.  the basketball program will collapse because we'll be able to afford a 760K coach...and looking at the salaries, that's a doc sadler or jeff bezdaflkerak or greg mcdermott type coach.

[The Kaiser]

and I ask because i don't know, but where does $760K rank nationally?  Big 12 salaries get skewed by ku, UT and OU IMHO.