Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 1598850 times)

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Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17250 on: November 21, 2024, 11:18:10 AM »
This country was founded on Zoroastrian principles, so I’d be fine with a system where we ceased federal funding, kicked all responsibility for school funding back to the states, used a voucher system for private schools; and had a defacto mandate to encourage more Zoroastrianism be taught in our schools.

Oklahoma's voucher system has taught us that if you give vouchers for private schools, they'll simply raise the price of tuition.  Coincidently, to just about the same amount of the vouchers. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/08/13/oklahoma-private-school-tax-credit-tuition-increase-some-schools/74781756007/

Private schools aren't about getting your kid a better education, it's about status and segregating the haves from the have nots.
i don't know.  do you really think my daughter would get as good of an education from Central High School compared to like, Pembroke* or Barstow or something? or is the only difference between the two schools the respective finances of her classmates?

*I'm not sending my daughter to Pembroke ftr

now do a realistic comparison

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17251 on: November 21, 2024, 11:21:03 AM »
Internet should be a public utility.

Yes, let's make it a regulated public utility, and then the regulated utility can go to the respective PUC and get a rate increase with a rubber stamp . . . also work to ensure that competition is extremely limited or doesn't exist.

Let's look at my power and gas options where I live . . . Power: Evergy . . . .   Gas: Kansas Gas . . . gosh, I wonder why I don't get 5 postcards in the mail every week from power and gas providers wanting me to switch and offering really cheap rates  :confused:

Sounds absolutely perfect

I think you are the first person I've heard say they wish they were marketed to by Power and Gas providers.

You are almost there. The Kansas Gas Company--Evergy is a for profit company that then goes and appeals rate hikes to a board with political oversight. I am suggesting we cut out the profit/company part.

As for the privacy/first amendment/Farenheit 451/1984 concerns.  As you are well aware, we are past the point of no return on both the NSA and private companies knowing basically everything so I think strong privacy laws would be great, but let's keep it real.

All of this, as you know, is currently well outside the Overton window because people have been convinced that paying more for health care is a very good thing actually and that same filter applies to basically everything because we don't , we have dont legislate from the point of view of citizens, we legislate to a nation of consumers.

Half of that doesn't have anything to do with what I am talking about.

For example, I currently pay $60 a month for my home Internet and I can use as much of it as I want at up to 600Mbps per second. So if I want to set up a bit coin mining server(s) at my house, I will pay the power company copious amounts of money to power them at a metered rate, but my Internet will still be $60 a month no matter how much I use.

It's also patiently absurd to take the profit out of something like telecom, because telecom for example pays for things like the Federal Erate program, and (for example) offers very affordable Internet rates for low wealth families.  Governments entering into the telecom business is an absolutely terrible idea in every regard.  The only thing stalling a greater proliferation of Internet access in this country right now is the . . . government.  Particularly this administration who once again is creating layers of bullshit bureaucracy in a post legislative approval environment.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17252 on: November 21, 2024, 11:22:14 AM »
Boy, I wonder what Gaetz had on Herr Garland's DOJ that that they decided not prosecute him after an 18 month investigation.

Did he get the Biden Family Inc treatment?


Offline DQ12

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17253 on: November 21, 2024, 11:26:09 AM »
This country was founded on Zoroastrian principles, so I’d be fine with a system where we ceased federal funding, kicked all responsibility for school funding back to the states, used a voucher system for private schools; and had a defacto mandate to encourage more Zoroastrianism be taught in our schools.

Oklahoma's voucher system has taught us that if you give vouchers for private schools, they'll simply raise the price of tuition.  Coincidently, to just about the same amount of the vouchers. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/08/13/oklahoma-private-school-tax-credit-tuition-increase-some-schools/74781756007/

Private schools aren't about getting your kid a better education, it's about status and segregating the haves from the have nots.
i don't know.  do you really think my daughter would get as good of an education from Central High School compared to like, Pembroke* or Barstow or something? or is the only difference between the two schools the respective finances of her classmates?

*I'm not sending my daughter to Pembroke ftr

now do a realistic comparison
Center vs. Rockhurst?  Center vs. St. Theresa?  Miege?  The high schools I listed are the private high schools in my area.

I don't know if I'll be on the Missouri side by the time my kids get to high school, but if they do, i'm not sending them to Center.  And I think it's unfair to attribute my motivation to "segregating the haves from the have nots."


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Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17254 on: November 21, 2024, 11:30:46 AM »
Imagine if any lib had trafficked this many minors (or any minors)

https://x.com/theliamnissan/status/1859421998906024389?s=46


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paying for sex is so damn maga.  so is grooming

Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17255 on: November 21, 2024, 11:32:57 AM »
Family values party strikes again for the millionth time. I'd love to hear from that Crawthorne dude that got mushed out because he was talking too much.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17256 on: November 21, 2024, 11:35:24 AM »
This country was founded on Zoroastrian principles, so I’d be fine with a system where we ceased federal funding, kicked all responsibility for school funding back to the states, used a voucher system for private schools; and had a defacto mandate to encourage more Zoroastrianism be taught in our schools.

Oklahoma's voucher system has taught us that if you give vouchers for private schools, they'll simply raise the price of tuition.  Coincidently, to just about the same amount of the vouchers. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/08/13/oklahoma-private-school-tax-credit-tuition-increase-some-schools/74781756007/

Private schools aren't about getting your kid a better education, it's about status and segregating the haves from the have nots.
i don't know.  do you really think my daughter would get as good of an education from Central High School compared to like, Pembroke* or Barstow or something? or is the only difference between the two schools the respective finances of her classmates?

*I'm not sending my daughter to Pembroke ftr

now do a realistic comparison
Center vs. Rockhurst?  Center vs. St. Theresa?  Miege?  The high schools I listed are the private high schools in my area.

I don't know if I'll be on the Missouri side by the time my kids get to high school, but if they do, i'm not sending them to Center.  And I think it's unfair to attribute my motivation to "segregating the haves from the have nots."

just move to blue valley which is measurably better than any you listed.

Offline DQ12

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17257 on: November 21, 2024, 11:58:18 AM »
This country was founded on Zoroastrian principles, so I’d be fine with a system where we ceased federal funding, kicked all responsibility for school funding back to the states, used a voucher system for private schools; and had a defacto mandate to encourage more Zoroastrianism be taught in our schools.

Oklahoma's voucher system has taught us that if you give vouchers for private schools, they'll simply raise the price of tuition.  Coincidently, to just about the same amount of the vouchers. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/08/13/oklahoma-private-school-tax-credit-tuition-increase-some-schools/74781756007/

Private schools aren't about getting your kid a better education, it's about status and segregating the haves from the have nots.
i don't know.  do you really think my daughter would get as good of an education from Central High School compared to like, Pembroke* or Barstow or something? or is the only difference between the two schools the respective finances of her classmates?

*I'm not sending my daughter to Pembroke ftr

now do a realistic comparison
Center vs. Rockhurst?  Center vs. St. Theresa?  Miege?  The high schools I listed are the private high schools in my area.

I don't know if I'll be on the Missouri side by the time my kids get to high school, but if they do, i'm not sending them to Center.  And I think it's unfair to attribute my motivation to "segregating the haves from the have nots."

just move to blue valley which is measurably better than any you listed.
but how is that any less classist/segregationist than staying in KCMO but choosing to send to private school? 

fwiw, i would still send my kids to private school if in Blue Valley. and i don't know if your claim that blue valley is "measurably better" than rockhurst


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Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17258 on: November 21, 2024, 12:08:05 PM »
Huge victory for RINO animals and Radical Left Monsters, if true:

https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17259 on: November 21, 2024, 12:10:56 PM »
Looks like Herr Garland really mumped up and we’ve had a sex predator running free in Congress - right next to a Chinese spy banger (secret Congress payoff fund is saved for another conversation).

Damn, kinda sad


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Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17260 on: November 21, 2024, 12:14:23 PM »

Online Pete

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17261 on: November 21, 2024, 12:14:44 PM »
Huge victory for RINO animals and Radical Left Monsters, if true:

https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285
I am truly amazed. Figured Trump would go down swinging on this one.

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17262 on: November 21, 2024, 12:20:58 PM »
Huge victory for RINO animals and Radical Left Monsters, if true:

https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285
I am truly amazed. Figured Trump would go down swinging on this one.
Could just be a ploy to pave the way for somebody even more contemptible and unqualified.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17263 on: November 21, 2024, 12:22:08 PM »
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/06/06/us-public-private-and-charter-schools-in-5-charts/#:~:text=During%20the%202021%2D22%20school%20year%2C%20the%20vast%20majority%20of,went%20to%20public%20charter%20schools.

https://www.educationnext.org/who-goes-private-school-long-term-enrollment-trends-family-income/#:~:text=Findings,in%20other%20regions.

Private schools are most popular in suburbs/cities where there are ethnically diverse public and charter schools. Catholic schools have changed in character from serving all demographics to largely serving the rich. Those are the facts. Why that is open to a little more opinion.

Quote
For example, in 1968, 18 percent of elementary-school-age children from high-income families attended a private school, compared to 12 percent of children from middle-income families and 5 percent of children from low-income families. In 2013, the percentage of children from middle-income families had declined by almost half, to 7 percent, while the percentage of children from high-income families remained roughly steady at 16 percent. As a result, the 90-50 gap in private elementary-school enrollment rates grew from 5.5 percentage points in 1968 to 9.3 percentage points in 2013.

Much of the expanded 90-50 gap is due to declining enrollment at Catholic private schools, which historically served large numbers of children from low- and middle-income families. In addition, growth in the gap among students at private nonsectarian elementary schools has been particularly large, almost entirely due to a substantial increase in the enrollment rate of children from high-income families.

There are of course rural private schools, but those are almost all religious and most of them are low on resources and probably worse off than the public schools (e.g. Flint Hills Christian) and in places like Louisiana that have state wide voucher programs there are tons of schools that are total scams, and the state dept. of ed every year revokes licenses from some of these, but there is almost no accountability for this and kids suffer because of it. I defy anyone to compare the level of scrutiny for public schools which are governed by locally elected school boards and owe the public all kinds of transparency, disclosures and ensure their staffs meet all kinds of statuatory requirements for the training of staff, to the curriculum, to the results of testing, to providing individual education plans for students that are identified with special needs to what is asked of private schools, which is very light if any accountability or transparency.

So, make your own choices, but at least be informed about the choice.

https://www.newscenter1.tv/news/diplomas-for-sale-465-no-classes-required-inside-one-of-louisiana-s-unapproved-schools/article_87a42ef6-8d4f-11ee-b9a2-bb2e501cf86a.html
« Last Edit: November 21, 2024, 12:44:59 PM by Kat Kid »

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17264 on: November 21, 2024, 12:25:03 PM »
Internet should be a public utility.

Yes, let's make it a regulated public utility, and then the regulated utility can go to the respective PUC and get a rate increase with a rubber stamp . . . also work to ensure that competition is extremely limited or doesn't exist.

Let's look at my power and gas options where I live . . . Power: Evergy . . . .   Gas: Kansas Gas . . . gosh, I wonder why I don't get 5 postcards in the mail every week from power and gas providers wanting me to switch and offering really cheap rates  :confused:

Sounds absolutely perfect

I think you are the first person I've heard say they wish they were marketed to by Power and Gas providers.

You are almost there. The Kansas Gas Company--Evergy is a for profit company that then goes and appeals rate hikes to a board with political oversight. I am suggesting we cut out the profit/company part.

As for the privacy/first amendment/Farenheit 451/1984 concerns.  As you are well aware, we are past the point of no return on both the NSA and private companies knowing basically everything so I think strong privacy laws would be great, but let's keep it real.

All of this, as you know, is currently well outside the Overton window because people have been convinced that paying more for health care is a very good thing actually and that same filter applies to basically everything because we don't , we have dont legislate from the point of view of citizens, we legislate to a nation of consumers.

Half of that doesn't have anything to do with what I am talking about.

For example, I currently pay $60 a month for my home Internet and I can use as much of it as I want at up to 600Mbps per second. So if I want to set up a bit coin mining server(s) at my house, I will pay the power company copious amounts of money to power them at a metered rate, but my Internet will still be $60 a month no matter how much I use.

It's also patiently absurd to take the profit out of something like telecom, because telecom for example pays for things like the Federal Erate program, and (for example) offers very affordable Internet rates for low wealth families.  Governments entering into the telecom business is an absolutely terrible idea in every regard.  The only thing stalling a greater proliferation of Internet access in this country right now is the . . . government.  Particularly this administration who once again is creating layers of bullshit bureaucracy in a post legislative approval environment.

Hold on, you are telling me that the reason that we can afford the Federal Erate program which offers very affordable Internet rates for low wealth families is because the companies are using their profits to pay for it?

Wait til you hear about this one weird trick about how taxes work to pay for public services.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17265 on: November 21, 2024, 12:26:22 PM »
Trump should just forge on with an AG pick based on his mandate because nothing short of a #blueanon piss boy like Merrick Shaky Garland is going to satisfy the blueanon rage complex


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Offline bucket

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17266 on: November 21, 2024, 12:38:38 PM »
Trump should just forge on with an AG pick based on his mandate because nothing short of a #blueanon piss boy like Merrick Shaky Garland is going to satisfy the blueanon rage complex


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Agreed. This morning I was thinking about if Trump is willing to deal with the scrutiny of Gaetz to get someone who will do his bidding then what do we have in store because it must be bad.

Online Pete

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17267 on: November 21, 2024, 12:55:59 PM »
Trump should just forge on with an AG pick based on his mandate because nothing short of a #blueanon piss boy like Merrick Shaky Garland is going to satisfy the blueanon rage complex


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Agreed. This morning I was thinking about if Trump is willing to deal with the scrutiny of Gaetz to get someone who will do his bidding then what do we have in store because it must be bad.
Republicans don’t need any blue support. If Gaetz isn’t running, it’s because he lost a critical amount of GOP support. That’s it.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17268 on: November 21, 2024, 01:10:50 PM »
This country was founded on Zoroastrian principles, so I’d be fine with a system where we ceased federal funding, kicked all responsibility for school funding back to the states, used a voucher system for private schools; and had a defacto mandate to encourage more Zoroastrianism be taught in our schools.

Oklahoma's voucher system has taught us that if you give vouchers for private schools, they'll simply raise the price of tuition.  Coincidently, to just about the same amount of the vouchers. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/08/13/oklahoma-private-school-tax-credit-tuition-increase-some-schools/74781756007/

Private schools aren't about getting your kid a better education, it's about status and segregating the haves from the have nots.
i don't know.  do you really think my daughter would get as good of an education from Central High School compared to like, Pembroke* or Barstow or something? or is the only difference between the two schools the respective finances of her classmates?

*I'm not sending my daughter to Pembroke ftr

now do a realistic comparison
Center vs. Rockhurst?  Center vs. St. Theresa?  Miege?  The high schools I listed are the private high schools in my area.

I don't know if I'll be on the Missouri side by the time my kids get to high school, but if they do, i'm not sending them to Center.  And I think it's unfair to attribute my motivation to "segregating the haves from the have nots."

just move to blue valley which is measurably better than any you listed.
but how is that any less classist/segregationist than staying in KCMO but choosing to send to private school? 

fwiw, i would still send my kids to private school if in Blue Valley. and i don't know if your claim that blue valley is "measurably better" than rockhurst

there are thousands and thousands of incredibly reasonable apartments and rentals in the district.

just the numbers

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17269 on: November 21, 2024, 01:12:19 PM »
Trump should just forge on with an AG pick based on his mandate because nothing short of a #blueanon piss boy like Merrick Shaky Garland is going to satisfy the blueanon rage complex


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Agreed. This morning I was thinking about if Trump is willing to deal with the scrutiny of Gaetz to get someone who will do his bidding then what do we have in store because it must be bad.

normalize grooming must be part of project 2025

Offline DQ12

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17270 on: November 21, 2024, 01:23:48 PM »
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/06/06/us-public-private-and-charter-schools-in-5-charts/#:~:text=During%20the%202021%2D22%20school%20year%2C%20the%20vast%20majority%20of,went%20to%20public%20charter%20schools.

https://www.educationnext.org/who-goes-private-school-long-term-enrollment-trends-family-income/#:~:text=Findings,in%20other%20regions.

Private schools are most popular in suburbs/cities where there are ethnically diverse public and charter schools. Catholic schools have changed in character from serving all demographics to largely serving the rich. Those are the facts. Why that is open to a little more opinion.

Quote
For example, in 1968, 18 percent of elementary-school-age children from high-income families attended a private school, compared to 12 percent of children from middle-income families and 5 percent of children from low-income families. In 2013, the percentage of children from middle-income families had declined by almost half, to 7 percent, while the percentage of children from high-income families remained roughly steady at 16 percent. As a result, the 90-50 gap in private elementary-school enrollment rates grew from 5.5 percentage points in 1968 to 9.3 percentage points in 2013.

Much of the expanded 90-50 gap is due to declining enrollment at Catholic private schools, which historically served large numbers of children from low- and middle-income families. In addition, growth in the gap among students at private nonsectarian elementary schools has been particularly large, almost entirely due to a substantial increase in the enrollment rate of children from high-income families.

There are of course rural private schools, but those are almost all religious and most of them are low on resources and probably worse off than the public schools (e.g. Flint Hills Christian) and in places like Louisiana that have state wide voucher programs there are tons of schools that are total scams, and the state dept. of ed every year revokes licenses from some of these, but there is almost no accountability for this and kids suffer because of it. I defy anyone to compare the level of scrutiny for public schools which are governed by locally elected school boards and owe the public all kinds of transparency, disclosures and ensure their staffs meet all kinds of statuatory requirements for the training of staff, to the curriculum, to the results of testing, to providing individual education plans for students that are identified with special needs to what is asked of private schools, which is very light if any accountability or transparency.

So, make your own choices, but at least be informed about the choice.

https://www.newscenter1.tv/news/diplomas-for-sale-465-no-classes-required-inside-one-of-louisiana-s-unapproved-schools/article_87a42ef6-8d4f-11ee-b9a2-bb2e501cf86a.html
Thanks, KK.  The education next article was interesting.  I was curious about what caused the demographic shift for Catholic schools, and the suggestion that a drop in priests/nuns meant a loss of relatively cheap labor meant that a lot of schools got priced out and shut down.

I think that’s true.  I also think that something the article didn’t consider is just the general secularist over the last 60-70 years.  Fewer parishioners means less money in the coffers. It used to be that you were expected to tithe, and if you were a tithing parishioner, your kids go to school for free.  But with fewer parishioners overall, that model doesn’t work anymore.  So it’s tuition on top of your “weekly obligation.” 

All that to say, I think a lot of middle income families got priced out of catholic schools due to drops and vocations and people leaving the church generally.  Very interesting article though.


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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17271 on: November 21, 2024, 02:14:16 PM »
No doubt, I think my general statement to people that complain about the "state of education" generally public or private is to say "compared to what?"

If people want to make the claim that schools are worse than 100 years ago, 50 years ago, 30 years ago...I'd like to know what they are pointing to and why they think that. The other point is that segregation in schools is obviously nothing new and now it is more by class than by race (or gender) but it is still a big improvement even though I would like to try and reduce it as a means to an end of a more just society and a more equitable educational system.

I am lucky that in MHK there are 2 middle schools and 1 high school and I would say I would be happy sending my kids to any of the elementary schools, and the one they go to is pretty ethnically and economically diverse and the teachers are largely outstanding.

Online steve dave

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17272 on: November 21, 2024, 02:21:36 PM »
The great part about living in great places is that the public schools are great.


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Offline Institutional Control

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17273 on: November 21, 2024, 02:42:32 PM »
Welp, Ken Paxton is surely Trump's next choice for AG.

Offline DQ12

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #17274 on: November 21, 2024, 03:00:04 PM »
No doubt, I think my general statement to people that complain about the "state of education" generally public or private is to say "compared to what?"

If people want to make the claim that schools are worse than 100 years ago, 50 years ago, 30 years ago...I'd like to know what they are pointing to and why they think that. The other point is that segregation in schools is obviously nothing new and now it is more by class than by race (or gender) but it is still a big improvement even though I would like to try and reduce it as a means to an end of a more just society and a more equitable educational system.

I am lucky that in MHK there are 2 middle schools and 1 high school and I would say I would be happy sending my kids to any of the elementary schools, and the one they go to is pretty ethnically and economically diverse and the teachers are largely outstanding.
I think much of the school district (and private/public) disparity in metrics can be boiled down to self-selection stuff and parenting.  You are much more of an expert in this stuff than I am (obviously), so feel free to point out if you disagree.

But I'm of the opinion that teachers are, broadly speaking, very competent, but they can only lead the horses to water.  When you look at things like test scores, graduation, college enrollment -- basically any metric to judge schools, what you're largely seeing is a function of the level of involvement and concern the parents have in their kids' education. IDK what it boils down to, but I'm guessing something like instilling "discipline" (like, do your homework, go to bed at a reasonable time, study for your tests, bring home a good report card etc.) is probably the key thing.  And there's all sorts of reasons a particular school district could have varying degrees of discipline (economic, cultural, familial etc.), but in my (again, very non-expert) opinion, that's largely what it comes down to.  And I don't know of a policy position more concrete than "bring more people out of poverty" that really does anything to change that.  So in my dumb right leaning brain, things like "we need more school funding!" misses the mark because, again, I think the teachers/resources aren't the cause of the disparate indicators. 

In other words, when Steve Dave says this
The great part about living in great places is that the public schools are great.
Is that actually the case?  Or do "great places" just have parents that typically raise good high school students that reflect well for their schools?

Am I completely off-base here? 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2024, 03:47:44 PM by DQ12 »


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]