Author Topic: Another school shooting  (Read 684411 times)

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Offline HeinBallz

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Another school shooting
« Reply #1450 on: February 02, 2013, 12:53:29 PM »
You have an odd definition of someone who is Healthy and sane.
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1451 on: February 02, 2013, 12:58:25 PM »
Really? So perfectly sane healthy people are going around and shooting people?

don't be stupid, of course they are.  the insane guy shoots 30 people stories get a lot of attention, and a lot of the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) responses from lawmakers or wannabe lawmakers are aimed at those crimes, but they're statistically nothing.  the majority of people killed by guns are people that shoot themselves, in second place come people that are shot by other sane, healthy people, either intentionally, recklessly or accidentally.

"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1452 on: February 02, 2013, 01:02:07 PM »
Did you look at the numbers I posted? The number of accidents (not a sanity issue)? Or the number of situations of anger end in gun violence? Or the number of guns not locked up in a house? I mean, that part's insane, the number of people who don't have their guns locked up. And the number of people who sell guns to people without doing background checks. But yeah, the system we have right now is fine. No punishments for guns not being locked up, no classes that need to be taken to own a gun, etc.

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1453 on: February 02, 2013, 01:07:45 PM »
Did you look at the numbers I posted? The number of accidents (not a sanity issue)? Or the number of situations of anger end in gun violence? Or the number of guns not locked up in a house? I mean, that part's insane, the number of people who don't have their guns locked up. And the number of people who sell guns to people without doing background checks. But yeah, the system we have right now is fine. No punishments for guns not being locked up, no classes that need to be taken to own a gun, etc.

the things you mention aren't symptoms of insanity, jakesie.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1454 on: February 02, 2013, 02:14:11 PM »
Did you look at the numbers I posted? The number of accidents (not a sanity issue)? Or the number of situations of anger end in gun violence? Or the number of guns not locked up in a house? I mean, that part's insane, the number of people who don't have their guns locked up. And the number of people who sell guns to people without doing background checks. But yeah, the system we have right now is fine. No punishments for guns not being locked up, no classes that need to be taken to own a gun, etc.

the things you mention aren't symptoms of insanity, jakesie.

Right, that was my point.

Edit: My response was to Heinballz, not you.

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1455 on: February 02, 2013, 03:43:27 PM »
Edit: My response was to Heinballz, not you.

oh.  sorry.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 04:27:55 PM by sys »
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline kim carnes

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1456 on: February 02, 2013, 04:05:42 PM »
Guns or no guns, people will die.  That's what they do.

Offline HeinBallz

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1457 on: February 02, 2013, 04:17:15 PM »
Is this a joke?  Without even looking at the stats you pointed out, I know you're wrong.  But to humor you, allow me to post official stats and not some huffington post/msnbc/cnn/fox/etc. article. 

Accidental gun deaths per 100,000 in the US is as follows:
2010: 0.206
2009: 0.18
2008: 0.19
2007: 0.20
2006: 0.22
2005: 0.276 23
2004: 0.226
2003: 0.25
2002: 0.26
2001: 0.286 19
2000: 0.286
1999: 0.30
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

Murder rates in that same time period:
2010    4.8
2009    5.0
2008    5.4
2007    5.6
2006    5.7
2005    5.6
2004    5.5
2003    5.7
2002    5.6
2001    5.6
2000    5.5
1999    5.7
US murder rates taken from: http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeTrendsInOneVar.cfm

Accidental deaths is hardly even a portion of any those statistics.  Eliminating all accidental gun deaths would still leave us at substantially higher murder rates than every country gun control enthusiast keep comparing us to. And seriously?  You're suggesting that "someone who kills someone out of anger" isn't crazy behavior? Again, you have an extremely warped sense of what is perfectly sane and what is crazy.

Why is it so hard to admit that this is a cultural problem of resorting to violence and has absolutely nothing to do with the ease of obtaining tools of violence.  Perhaps if there was a greater rate of one parent staying home and raising kids without some economical strain or greater ease of obtaining qualified therapy (Not psychoactive drugs) then we could not only reduce that violent murder rates, but help with hundreds of thousands of other issues.   Know why that isn't a topic?  Because it's harder to admit that things we're all guilty of doing are causing these problems.  Hypocrisy knows no bounds, yet everyone can justify in their own mind why they're right and everyone else is the problem.  I know, I know... no one is suggesting mental health should not be looked at.  Further gun restrictions can only be enforced by violent means and does nothing but justifies resistance against authority.  Why should the Military have the right to protect me with something that I cannot own.  If the local police force finds justifiable means to defend themselves with an AR15, then I should have that same right. 

And to the people that keep bringing up the constitution saying the founding fathers would never have allowed you to own an AR15 - the speculation of validity to that argument can not be proved - however, for a group of men that just escaped a tyrannical government, they never would have allowed our government to have AR15's, M16's, Nuke's, Tanks, etc.   The line should have been drawn at bombs - but it's too late for that.   So unless the government & police force are also considering disarming themselves, than I"m pretty sure the founding fathers would be okay with you having equal force to any government sponsored militia. 








Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1458 on: February 02, 2013, 04:18:19 PM »
Do you think everyone that commits murder is insane?

Offline HeinBallz

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Another school shooting
« Reply #1459 on: February 02, 2013, 05:35:45 PM »
I think they have serious issues with conflict management which borders on insanity.  I personally couldn't ever justify murder - I believe if you can think of a scenario where murder that isn't in self defense is okay, then yes - you have psychotic tendencies and you would benefit from therapy.
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1460 on: February 02, 2013, 05:55:19 PM »
I think they have serious issues with conflict management which borders on insanity.  I personally couldn't ever justify murder - I believe if you can think of a scenario where murder that isn't in self defense is okay, then yes - you have psychotic tendencies and you would benefit from therapy.

And how do you plan to diagnose all the people who have serious issues with conflict management? Because apparently there are a lot of them.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1461 on: February 02, 2013, 05:56:34 PM »
I think they have serious issues with conflict management which borders on insanity.  I personally couldn't ever justify murder - I believe if you can think of a scenario where murder that isn't in self defense is okay, then yes - you have psychotic tendencies and you would benefit from therapy.

And how do you plan to diagnose all the people who have serious issues with conflict management? Because apparently there are a lot of them.

we don't need to diagnose them, just leave things the way we are.  good grief.

Online Institutional Control

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1462 on: February 02, 2013, 06:09:30 PM »
I think they have serious issues with conflict management which borders on insanity.  I personally couldn't ever justify murder - I believe if you can think of a scenario where murder that isn't in self defense is okay, then yes - you have psychotic tendencies and you would benefit from therapy.

And how do you plan to diagnose all the people who have serious issues with conflict management? Because apparently there are a lot of them.

we don't need to diagnose them, just leave things the way we are.  good grief.

You are so edgy.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1463 on: February 02, 2013, 06:18:06 PM »
I think they have serious issues with conflict management which borders on insanity.  I personally couldn't ever justify murder - I believe if you can think of a scenario where murder that isn't in self defense is okay, then yes - you have psychotic tendencies and you would benefit from therapy.

And how do you plan to diagnose all the people who have serious issues with conflict management? Because apparently there are a lot of them.

we don't need to diagnose them, just leave things the way we are.  good grief.

You are so edgy.

i am very edgy.

Offline HeinBallz

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Another school shooting
« Reply #1464 on: February 02, 2013, 06:25:14 PM »
I think they have serious issues with conflict management which borders on insanity.  I personally couldn't ever justify murder - I believe if you can think of a scenario where murder that isn't in self defense is okay, then yes - you have psychotic tendencies and you would benefit from therapy.

And how do you plan to diagnose all the people who have serious issues with conflict management? Because apparently there are a lot of them.

I think people are pretty good at diagnosing themselves or the ones they love actually.  All I would propose is making avenues for treatment much more attainable.  It would be a much better start and would have a greater impact than any gun restrictions would have.  And I'm not even really talking about this being a government run deal. 

"Would anyone like to donate to some program I'm thinking of creating that would help single parents taking care of their bills while they undergo RAD wilderness therapy?"

See... Something like that.  Wouldn't that have such an amazing reach if Hollywood actors &actresses were pitching this kind of "action now"?
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1465 on: February 02, 2013, 06:30:00 PM »
Yeah, people who show signs of being overly aggressive generally respond really well when someone tells them they need to get some help.

Offline CNS

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Re: Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1466 on: February 02, 2013, 09:20:01 PM »
Yeah, people who show signs of being overly aggressive generally respond really well when someone tells them they need to get some help.

Jesus at my wifes school doesn't need help.  He is here to help all of you

Offline HeinBallz

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Another school shooting
« Reply #1467 on: February 02, 2013, 09:48:51 PM »
Yeah, people who show signs of being overly aggressive generally respond really well when someone tells them they need to get some help.
Good point, let's take their guns away.
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1468 on: February 03, 2013, 03:13:41 AM »
Yeah, people who show signs of being overly aggressive generally respond really well when someone tells them they need to get some help.
Good point, let's take their guns away.

Agreed.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1469 on: February 03, 2013, 03:20:03 AM »
Yeah, people who show signs of being overly aggressive generally respond really well when someone tells them they need to get some help.
Good point, let's take their guns away.

See how simple that was.
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline HeinBallz

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Another school shooting
« Reply #1470 on: February 03, 2013, 10:18:50 AM »
Do you guys even know people?

How is it you can you see the trouble caused by telling someone to go to therapy, but not see the trouble caused by giving the impression that you're trying to take away their guns? 

One scenario causes the person to tell you to eff off. The other scenario causes the person to justify using their gun to tell the world to eff off.

Surely you can see my confusion when wondering exactly what you're trying to accomplish?
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline HeinBallz

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Another school shooting
« Reply #1471 on: February 03, 2013, 10:31:46 AM »
Not to mention, nearly all of these people that caused one of these horrific acts in the last 10 years attempted to get help.  These people self diagnosed and sought out help on their own. They did not receive it because either they could not afford it or the treatment suggested was: "here take this pill and call me in the morning."

I'm pitching the idea of making something more widely available, you're assuming that I'm suggesting we go door-to-door to people that are deemed crazy or combative and haul them off to a therapist / give them free pills; two very different things.  What you're insinuating would have a guaranteed fail rate.
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1472 on: February 03, 2013, 12:27:24 PM »
One scenario causes the person to tell you to eff off. The other scenario causes the person to justify using their gun to tell the world to eff off.

So in the scenario where they have a gun, they just tell people to eff off. But in the scenario where they don't have a gun, they use their gun to tell the world to eff off?

Offline DQ12

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #1473 on: February 03, 2013, 12:41:17 PM »
should i get a gun?  i know for a fact i'm not crazy and i'd be sure to be very careful with it and lock it up and keep it very secure. 

i think maybe i should get one someday, just to have.  wouldn't ever get a conceal and carry or anything, but going to a shooting range would be pretty fun i guess.  before every shot, i think i'd mutter to myself something to the effect of "you picked the wrong guy to mess with, dirtbag." 


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Offline puniraptor

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Another school shooting
« Reply #1474 on: February 03, 2013, 12:47:13 PM »
should i get a gun?  i know for a fact i'm not crazy and i'd be sure to be very careful with it and lock it up and keep it very secure. 

i think maybe i should get one someday, just to have.  wouldn't ever get a conceal and carry or anything, but going to a shooting range would be pretty fun i guess.  before every shot, i think i'd mutter to myself something to the effect of "you picked the wrong guy to mess with, dirtbag."

Sounds like you are more than ready