Another school shooting

[michigancat]

So the people not currently locking up their guns at home(obviously don%u2019t care enough about their child potentially using it to kill themselves or others) will suddenly become responsible once threat of potential jail time after their dependent commits a murder/ accidental death?

when coupled with education/licensing? absolutely

[catastrophe]

people speed every day, but having speed limits definitely helps create less traffic accidents 

Yeah idk if WW is doing a bit here but it’s a transparently stupid line of argument.

[Spracne]

Fewer. Fewer ...

[OK_Cat]

Fewer. Fewer ...

 

[wetwillie]

people speed every day, but having speed limits definitely helps create less traffic accidents 

Yeah idk if WW is doing a bit here but it’s a transparently stupid line of argument.

We can discuss whatever solutions people would like, but I’m most interested in things that will actually put a dent into the 42,000 a year.  We need to take assault weapons off the market, it’s the most important imo, at least in regards to the mass shootings.  The 20k or so gun suicides is tough because it’s all standard hand guns and 75% or more are owned by the victim.  I think there is a much broader support to ban new sales of assault weapons than hand guns. Obviously people having zero access to guns that aren’t theirs would bring our gun deaths down, I’m more cynical than most on here it appears on that being effectively solved via legislation.

[Spracne]

people speed every day, but having speed limits definitely helps create less traffic accidents 

Yeah idk if WW is doing a bit here but it’s a transparently stupid line of argument.

We can discuss whatever solutions people would like, but I’m most interested in things that will actually put a dent into the 42,000 a year.  We need to take assault weapons off the market, it’s the most important imo, at least in regards to the mass shootings.  The 20k or so gun suicides is tough because it’s all standard hand guns and 75% or more are owned by the victim.  I think there is a much broader support to ban new sales of assault weapons than hand guns. Obviously people having zero access to guns that aren’t theirs would bring our gun deaths down, I’m more cynical than most on here it appears on that being effectively solved via legislation.

Vote for dems, and muster all your like-minded friends to vote in every election. It's really all we can do. If we play our cards right, even the pubs will eventually come around after getting their asses sufficiently kicked over and over.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think we should start with trying to address mass shootings and murders before moving onto suicides.

[catastrophe]

I think we should start with trying to address mass shootings and murders before moving onto suicides.

Regulating gun ownership like car ownership works for both problems.

[michigancat]

Would an assault weapons ban actually put a dent in overall gun deaths? It would put a dent in mass shooting events but I believe that's a pretty small percentage of all gun deaths

[BIG APPLE CAT]

Would an assault weapons ban actually put a dent in overall gun deaths? It would put a dent in mass shooting events but I believe that's a pretty small percentage of all gun deaths

by cutting down the mass shootings you might not make a dent in total deaths but you would have a ten-fold reduction in general fear/anxiety that folks have about sending their children to school or going out to public gatherings etc.

[michigancat]

Would an assault weapons ban actually put a dent in overall gun deaths? It would put a dent in mass shooting events but I believe that's a pretty small percentage of all gun deaths

by cutting down the mass shootings you might not make a dent in total deaths but you would have a ten-fold reduction in general fear/anxiety that folks have about sending their children to school or going out to public gatherings etc.

eh anxiety seems really difficult to quantify and ww said he was most interested in making a real dent in the 42,000 gun deaths annually.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Would an assault weapons ban actually put a dent in overall gun deaths? It would put a dent in mass shooting events but I believe that's a pretty small percentage of all gun deaths

by cutting down the mass shootings you might not make a dent in total deaths but you would have a ten-fold reduction in general fear/anxiety that folks have about sending their children to school or going out to public gatherings etc.

eh anxiety seems really difficult to quantify and ww said he was most interested in making a real dent in the 42,000 gun deaths annually.

Well, most of those deaths are suicides. It's kind of hard to tell how many of those you even prevent with a full ban on guns.

[catastrophe]

Would an assault weapons ban actually put a dent in overall gun deaths? It would put a dent in mass shooting events but I believe that's a pretty small percentage of all gun deaths

by cutting down the mass shootings you might not make a dent in total deaths but you would have a ten-fold reduction in general fear/anxiety that folks have about sending their children to school or going out to public gatherings etc.

eh anxiety seems really difficult to quantify and ww said he was most interested in making a real dent in the 42,000 gun deaths annually.

Well, most of those deaths are suicides. It's kind of hard to tell how many of those you even prevent with a full ban on guns.

You could always look at suicide rates in countries that have severely restricted gun ownership.

[wetwillie]

Would an assault weapons ban actually put a dent in overall gun deaths? It would put a dent in mass shooting events but I believe that's a pretty small percentage of all gun deaths

by cutting down the mass shootings you might not make a dent in total deaths but you would have a ten-fold reduction in general fear/anxiety that folks have about sending their children to school or going out to public gatherings etc.

eh anxiety seems really difficult to quantify and ww said he was most interested in making a real dent in the 42,000 gun deaths annually.

Mass Shootings are the biggest of the realistically controllable non suicides. 

[sys]

wetwillie is correct.  the restrictions placed on using cars have very little applicability to regulating guns.  they're fundamentally different problems and the analogy of regulating guns as we do vehicles falls apart on even a moment's reflection.

[catastrophe]

wetwillie is correct.  the restrictions placed on using cars have very little applicability to regulating guns.  they're fundamentally different problems and the analogy of regulating guns as we do vehicles falls apart on even a moment's reflection.

Go on

[michigancat]

Would an assault weapons ban actually put a dent in overall gun deaths? It would put a dent in mass shooting events but I believe that's a pretty small percentage of all gun deaths

by cutting down the mass shootings you might not make a dent in total deaths but you would have a ten-fold reduction in general fear/anxiety that folks have about sending their children to school or going out to public gatherings etc.

eh anxiety seems really difficult to quantify and ww said he was most interested in making a real dent in the 42,000 gun deaths annually.

Mass Shootings are the biggest of the realistically controllable non suicides. 

Depends on how you define mass shootings, but there aren't very many mass shootings. Like fewer than 100 deaths per year. If you think that's the biggest group of realistically controllable non-suicide gun deaths I don't think you're being very rational.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/811504/mass-shooting-victims-in-the-united-states-by-fatalities-and-injuries/

[Spracne]

wetwillie is correct.  the restrictions placed on using cars have very little applicability to regulating guns.  they're fundamentally different problems and the analogy of regulating guns as we do vehicles falls apart on even a moment's reflection.

Go on

As an initial matter, you must understand that sys is a libertarian ....

That's also the closing matter, FWIW.

[michigancat]

wetwillie is correct.  the restrictions placed on using cars have very little applicability to regulating guns.  they're fundamentally different problems and the analogy of regulating guns as we do vehicles falls apart on even a moment's reflection.

ww thinks auto restrictions are analogous to gun restrictions but he thinks that regulations don't help reduce auto deaths

[sys]

Go on

1.  restrictions on autos are on use (of public roads), not possession (in most states, not sure if this is true for all restrictions in all states).
2.  people using their autos is accepted, desired and frequent.  restrictions are intended to improve usability for all users and protect the public from accidental damages.

[sys]

As an initial matter, you must understand that sys is a libertarian ....

That's also the closing matter, FWIW.

i'm not a libertarian.

[Spracne]

As an initial matter, you must understand that sys is a libertarian ....

That's also the closing matter, FWIW.

i'm not a libertarian.

I didn't say you identified as a libertarian. I simply said you are one.

[sys]

I didn't say you identified as a libertarian. I simply said you are one.

you'd probably be closer to correct on identification than on actual ideology, but neither is very accurate.

[Spracne]

I didn't say you identified as a libertarian. I simply said you are one.

you'd probably be closer to correct on identification than on actual ideology, but neither is very accurate.

Ok. You are free to explain your actual ideology in your own words, if you'd like to.

[catastrophe]

Go on

1.  restrictions on autos are on use (of public roads), not possession (in most states, not sure if this is true for all restrictions in all states).

Not property taxes (where applicable), sales/gift tax, or the requirement to record changes in ownership. I’d also argue that the types of auto restrictions advocated for in this case are not on USE but ANTICIPATED USE—such as the requirement to obtain a driver’s license, license the vehicle, regularly inspect it (in some states), and carry liability insurance.

2.  people using their autos is accepted, desired and frequent.  restrictions are intended to improve usability for all users and protect the public from accidental damages.

I’m really not sure what this distinction is getting at. The people advocating most vocally against gun restrictions are the same people arguing for the desirability of being able to use a gun at a moment’s notice.

Regardless, requiring training for gun owners and carrying liability insurance to benefit potential gun victims serves the exact same purpose as it does vehicle owners.