Author Topic: Another school shooting  (Read 686508 times)

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3850 on: October 15, 2015, 10:40:44 AM »
Part of the policy change needs to be very very harsh sentences for ppl who's guns are used by their kids.

Can they not be charged with a crime and punished today?

I am sure they can be.  It obviously isn't very much of a deterrent, currently, though.

Lots of people smoke pot, even though it's a crime.  Think we should have stricter punishment for it?

Not comparable.  Silly to try. 

If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3851 on: October 15, 2015, 10:42:38 AM »
update: missouri has no law. its just an accident. nothing anybody could have done. when its your time, its your time

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3852 on: October 15, 2015, 10:57:34 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3853 on: October 15, 2015, 11:05:02 AM »
Are pools specifically designed to kill?
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3854 on: October 15, 2015, 11:09:58 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?  Again, gun ppl should want this.  They should want to remove reasonable barriers from them having guns and getting bleading hearts out of the way would be a good thing for that cause.  Pool contractors I know are all about safety devices.  It's an upsell.  They want you to have a fence, an automated cover that can hold a person, and a water splash sensor alarm.  It makes them money and goes a good distance to keeping their name and industry from being viewed in a bad light.  you can separate the gun rights from needing gun responsibility, right?

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3855 on: October 15, 2015, 11:12:56 AM »
ksudub, do/did you ever let your kids play with other peoples kids at their houses?

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3856 on: October 15, 2015, 11:20:51 AM »
Ksudub can you provide actual reasoning as to why you're against strict prosecution of people who allow toddlers access to guns that are then used to kill themselves or others? I mean, reasoning that isn't repeated straw men?

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3857 on: October 15, 2015, 11:29:46 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?  Again, gun ppl should want this.  They should want to remove reasonable barriers from them having guns and getting bleading hearts out of the way would be a good thing for that cause.  Pool contractors I know are all about safety devices.  It's an upsell.  They want you to have a fence, an automated cover that can hold a person, and a water splash sensor alarm.  It makes them money and goes a good distance to keeping their name and industry from being viewed in a bad light.  you can separate the gun rights from needing gun responsibility, right?
Yeah, gun shops should really upsell gun locks and cabinets and manufacturers should work on sourcing them and marketing them for added revenue. Sell it as a safety measure. They should also work on developing new locks and cabinets that are smarter, safer, and more quickly accessible by the qualified owner in case of emergency. Maybe they already do, but they should try to stay ahead of the game.

HOWEVER, that's a pretty small number of toddlers killed by guns given the number of guns and idiot parents we have in this country.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3858 on: October 15, 2015, 11:31:56 AM »
Are pools specifically designed to kill?

No. But I would say that guns are more necessary than swimming pools.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3859 on: October 15, 2015, 11:34:31 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?

I don't think that's quite the right question. The correct question is, "is there a difference between leaving a toddler unattended with a gun on a coffee table and leaving a toddler unattended by a pool?" The answer is no.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3860 on: October 15, 2015, 11:35:16 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?  Again, gun ppl should want this.  They should want to remove reasonable barriers from them having guns and getting bleading hearts out of the way would be a good thing for that cause.  Pool contractors I know are all about safety devices.  It's an upsell.  They want you to have a fence, an automated cover that can hold a person, and a water splash sensor alarm.  It makes them money and goes a good distance to keeping their name and industry from being viewed in a bad light.  you can separate the gun rights from needing gun responsibility, right?
Yeah, gun shops should really upsell gun locks and cabinets and manufacturers should work on sourcing them and marketing them for added revenue. Sell it as a safety measure. They should also work on developing new locks and cabinets that are smarter, safer, and more quickly accessible by the qualified owner in case of emergency. Maybe they already do, but they should try to stay ahead of the game.

HOWEVER, that's a pretty small number of toddlers killed by guns given the number of guns and idiot parents we have in this country.

agreed on quantity.  I wasn't approaching this as a cure all.  Simply that those who have this happen to their kids should be locked the eff up for a long time.

The problem with better safes and locks is that the existing gun culture doesn't just feel like they need all the guns they want, but they need immediate access to them.

A family member recently bought a pistol for home protection.  She hired a retired cop to train her on the gun.  The guy actually told her to keep it loaded and to keep it in a readily available drawer near the bed.  He said that if she has to wake up and mess with a lock or safe, she might as well not even have a gun.

I mean, if the pros are teaching that, the safe/lock ppl have no hope, imo.  The gun ppl are too stricken with extreme fear and paranoia.  Also, safeties are for pussies.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3861 on: October 15, 2015, 11:35:37 AM »
Part of the policy change needs to be very very harsh sentences for ppl who's guns are used by their kids.

Can they not be charged with a crime and punished today?

I am sure they can be.  It obviously isn't very much of a deterrent, currently, though.

Lots of people smoke pot, even though it's a crime.  Think we should have stricter punishment for it?

Not comparable.  Silly to try. 

If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Do you think I'm advocating letting toddlers play with guns?

Anyway, I agree that people should be punished for this.  I'm pretty appaled there aren't child endangerment laws or whatever in some states.  Seems like something that should be tackled at the state level.  Not that I believe it will change the behavior of stupid people.  Stupid people do stupid things because stupid.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3862 on: October 15, 2015, 11:35:46 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?  Again, gun ppl should want this.  They should want to remove reasonable barriers from them having guns and getting bleading hearts out of the way would be a good thing for that cause.  Pool contractors I know are all about safety devices.  It's an upsell.  They want you to have a fence, an automated cover that can hold a person, and a water splash sensor alarm.  It makes them money and goes a good distance to keeping their name and industry from being viewed in a bad light.  you can separate the gun rights from needing gun responsibility, right?
Yeah, gun shops should really upsell gun locks and cabinets and manufacturers should work on sourcing them and marketing them for added revenue. Sell it as a safety measure. They should also work on developing new locks and cabinets that are smarter, safer, and more quickly accessible by the qualified owner in case of emergency. Maybe they already do, but they should try to stay ahead of the game.

They already do. Huge market for gun safety devices.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3863 on: October 15, 2015, 11:36:24 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?

I don't think that's quite the right question. The correct question is, "is there a difference between leaving a toddler unattended with a gun on a coffee table and leaving a toddler unattended by a pool?" The answer is no.

That is only the right question if you are trying to troll and really pit it up.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3864 on: October 15, 2015, 11:36:47 AM »
Ksudub can you provide actual reasoning as to why you're against strict prosecution of people who allow toddlers access to guns that are then used to kill themselves or others? I mean, reasoning that isn't repeated straw men?

I think you missed the part where I said I'd be in favor of this. I was simply pointing out that accidental toddler shootings is not a reason to further restrict guns. I believe that freedom requires accountability for that freedom, so I absolutely believe in prosecuting negligent parents.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 11:42:36 AM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3865 on: October 15, 2015, 11:36:53 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?  Again, gun ppl should want this.  They should want to remove reasonable barriers from them having guns and getting bleading hearts out of the way would be a good thing for that cause.  Pool contractors I know are all about safety devices.  It's an upsell.  They want you to have a fence, an automated cover that can hold a person, and a water splash sensor alarm.  It makes them money and goes a good distance to keeping their name and industry from being viewed in a bad light.  you can separate the gun rights from needing gun responsibility, right?
Yeah, gun shops should really upsell gun locks and cabinets and manufacturers should work on sourcing them and marketing them for added revenue. Sell it as a safety measure. They should also work on developing new locks and cabinets that are smarter, safer, and more quickly accessible by the qualified owner in case of emergency. Maybe they already do, but they should try to stay ahead of the game.

HOWEVER, that's a pretty small number of toddlers killed by guns given the number of guns and idiot parents we have in this country.

Every gun I have ever bought came from the factory with a trigger lock, for free.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3866 on: October 15, 2015, 11:37:25 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?

I don't think that's quite the right question. The correct question is, "is there a difference between leaving a toddler unattended with a gun on a coffee table and leaving a toddler unattended by a pool?" The answer is no.

That is only the right question if you are trying to troll and really pit it up.

No, it's the right question because it's the correct comparison.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3867 on: October 15, 2015, 11:38:05 AM »
I mean, if the pros are teaching that, the safe/lock ppl have no hope, imo.  The gun ppl are too stricken with extreme fear and paranoia.  Also, safeties are for pussies.

If I were into guns, I would seriously design something like a fingerprint access lock that can be unlocked by the correct owner in seconds.

But I mean LOL at thinking a loaded gun on your nightstand will save you from an intruder waking you up in the bedroom. Cops are such idiots.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3868 on: October 15, 2015, 11:38:39 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?

I don't think that's quite the right question. The correct question is, "is there a difference between leaving a toddler unattended with a gun on a coffee table and leaving a toddler unattended by a pool?" The answer is no.

That is only the right question if you are trying to troll and really pit it up.

It's absolutely a valid question.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3869 on: October 15, 2015, 11:39:36 AM »
I mean, if the pros are teaching that, the safe/lock ppl have no hope, imo.  The gun ppl are too stricken with extreme fear and paranoia.  Also, safeties are for pussies.

If I were into guns, I would seriously design something like a fingerprint access lock that can be unlocked by the correct owner in seconds.

But I mean LOL at thinking a loaded gun on your nightstand will save you from an intruder waking you up in the bedroom. Cops are such idiots.

They already have those.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3870 on: October 15, 2015, 11:39:44 AM »
ksudub, do/did you ever let your kids play with other peoples kids at their houses?

I do. And before I do, I have a very specific conversation with them about this very topic (yes, I really do). "What do you do if you see a gun? But what if your friend says it's ok because it isn't loaded?" Etc. My kids get annoyed with that conversation. I have it every time they go to a new kid's house.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3871 on: October 15, 2015, 11:39:52 AM »
I agree pools are probably more dangerous and more necessary than a guns (although neither are really necessary) but it would be more difficult for a toddler to kill another toddler or multiple toddlers with access to a pool than it would for them with access to a gun.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3872 on: October 15, 2015, 11:40:57 AM »
I mean, if the pros are teaching that, the safe/lock ppl have no hope, imo.  The gun ppl are too stricken with extreme fear and paranoia.  Also, safeties are for pussies.

If I were into guns, I would seriously design something like a fingerprint access lock that can be unlocked by the correct owner in seconds.

But I mean LOL at thinking a loaded gun on your nightstand will save you from an intruder waking you up in the bedroom. Cops are such idiots.

They already have those.

too expensive

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3873 on: October 15, 2015, 11:41:32 AM »
If you have a gun, make sure you toddler can't get to it as a plaything.  Seems pretty simple.  If you don't you should be harshly punished.  Seems like the pro gun ppl would support this.  I mean, being pro gun doesn't make you pro stupid, and what we are talking about is ppl being very stupid with their guns to the detriment of those who don't know better(toddlers).

Agreed. But we should also prosecute swimming pool drownings, too, right? Over 350 per year, way way more than accidental toddler shooting deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Is there a diff in leaving a gun on a coffee table or couch and having a pool in a fenced in back yard?  Again, gun ppl should want this.  They should want to remove reasonable barriers from them having guns and getting bleading hearts out of the way would be a good thing for that cause.  Pool contractors I know are all about safety devices.  It's an upsell.  They want you to have a fence, an automated cover that can hold a person, and a water splash sensor alarm.  It makes them money and goes a good distance to keeping their name and industry from being viewed in a bad light.  you can separate the gun rights from needing gun responsibility, right?
Yeah, gun shops should really upsell gun locks and cabinets and manufacturers should work on sourcing them and marketing them for added revenue. Sell it as a safety measure. They should also work on developing new locks and cabinets that are smarter, safer, and more quickly accessible by the qualified owner in case of emergency. Maybe they already do, but they should try to stay ahead of the game.

HOWEVER, that's a pretty small number of toddlers killed by guns given the number of guns and idiot parents we have in this country.

Every gun I have ever bought came from the factory with a trigger lock, for free.

That is great and the right thing to do.  Side note:  I have guns and hunt with a pretty large party of ppl, most of whom have a lot more guns than I do and bring them when we go hunting to show them off and play with them, even if the particular hunting season doesn't call for it.  I have personally never encountered a trigger lock outside of a place that sells guns.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3874 on: October 15, 2015, 11:41:38 AM »
and why are gun locks so rarely used? I mean, I know it's because of paranoia, but still.