Author Topic: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)  (Read 23418 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2020, 03:38:18 PM »
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/

All of the quotes that journalism school student put together in your link and that it was presented that way at all in the link, are more examples of the things I'm lol'n at.

Those quotes are from three different attorneys and none from journalists. Maybe move this to the prosecutors who will let the cops do whatever they want despite the pleas from constitutionalists thread?

Maybe four!  Not sure about Frank.

Quote
Madeline Lamo, a media litigation fellow for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Frank LoMonte, the director for the Brechner Center for Freedom of Information at the University of Florida

Eric Stahl, the attorney representing the five news outlets

NPPA general counsel Mickey Osterreicher

And it's quite an argument they've presented to constituent media types.  But in the real world and particularly in court, it's lol ridiculous, the court part being especially relevant to attorneys.

So how do you propose this goes down?

Cops: Hey Seattle media, we want to solve some crimes and our investigation has hit a snag, give us your video and photos.
Times, KIRO, KING, KOMO: uh, isn't there a shield law that protects us from giving that to you?
Cops: We're the cops, rough ridin' give it to us.
Media: uh wait. Lawyers, do we have to do this
Media Attorneys: sure why not, give it to them, give them whatever they need, it should be fine, the cops won't overreach at all.

Not quite.

Cops: Well, eff. The piece we need might be in the hands of Times, KIRO, KING, KOMO.  We're gonna need to request a subpoena from the court.
Court: [reviews subpoena].  Yep, this is narrow enough and meets all the criteria, granted.
Media: [upon getting subpoena and deciding to extrapolate it to some ingrained principle] We don't want to obey this, let's talk to lawyers.
Media attorneys: [reviewing and knowing it's a loser but whatever, this isn't a contingency case] Yeah, we'll take your case and argue to court and also argue in the press
Media and media attorneys: [upon losing] let's keep making a thing of this, which is easy as we are the entity that informs people

So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

Offline Trim

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #76 on: July 25, 2020, 03:45:27 PM »
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #77 on: July 25, 2020, 03:47:21 PM »
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.

So where do you stand with the media covering other entities who lost judgments in court?

Offline Trim

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #78 on: July 25, 2020, 03:50:59 PM »
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.

So where do you stand with the media covering other entities who lost judgments in court?

I'll look at an example, but generally #coverage of a court case involving parties that don't have any connections to the coverage'r will include the full perspectives and arguments each side made and the rationale the court used in making its ruling.  And then there'll usually be statements from both sides about their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the result.  And that's all fine.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2020, 04:19:32 PM »
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.

So where do you stand with the media covering other entities who lost judgments in court?

I'll look at an example, but generally #coverage of a court case involving parties that don't have any connections to the coverage'r will include the full perspectives and arguments each side made and the rationale the court used in making its ruling.  And then there'll usually be statements from both sides about their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the result.  And that's all fine.

So the media can't cover the media?

Offline Trim

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #80 on: July 25, 2020, 04:27:00 PM »
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.

So where do you stand with the media covering other entities who lost judgments in court?

I'll look at an example, but generally #coverage of a court case involving parties that don't have any connections to the coverage'r will include the full perspectives and arguments each side made and the rationale the court used in making its ruling.  And then there'll usually be statements from both sides about their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the result.  And that's all fine.

So the media can't cover the media?

As we see all the time, not very well!

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #81 on: July 25, 2020, 04:35:39 PM »

Offline DaBigTrain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #82 on: July 25, 2020, 05:08:53 PM »

Oh my I haven’t seen this one before :love: :love: :love:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

https://blockstream.info/block/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f

Offline Trim

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Offline Trim

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #85 on: July 25, 2020, 07:35:29 PM »
T’s & P’s.

https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1287146902484480000

https://twitter.com/choeshow/status/1287157934690983936

The cops are now allowed to take camera footage from the networks, this is the inevitable result. Who the eff wants to be on camera now that the footage can be used to arrest you, or to pressure you to snitch on someone else. The cops got what they really wanted and it was for the Seattle media to cover protests and riots less. Exactly what we all need. Grats on owning the media though.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #86 on: July 25, 2020, 07:38:33 PM »
The premise of this entire thread is really rough ridin' stupid. Mock the media actually out documenting the protests while we're at home doing jack crap. Co-oping trump to own the bloggers. Hot crap.

Offline Trim

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #87 on: July 25, 2020, 07:40:15 PM »
The cops got what they really wanted and it was for the Seattle media to cover protests and riots less. Exactly what we all need.

Didn't work.

https://komonews.com/watch

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #88 on: July 25, 2020, 08:03:16 PM »
The premise of this entire thread is really rough ridin' stupid. Mock the media actually out documenting the protests while we're at home doing jack crap. Co-oping trump to own the bloggers. Hot crap.


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #89 on: July 25, 2020, 08:36:59 PM »
The cops got what they really wanted and it was for the Seattle media to cover protests and riots less. Exactly what we all need.

Didn't work.

https://komonews.com/watch

Yeah, wait until one of those camera people get assaulted by someone who doesn't want to be on camera. Then other media members can talk about media members getting their asses kicked. The cops can use that footage to arrest people and you get more content for your thread. Navel gazing! Everyone wins.

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2020, 08:42:32 PM »
The cops got what they really wanted and it was for the Seattle media to cover protests and riots less. Exactly what we all need.

Didn't work.

https://komonews.com/watch

And here we are

Yeah, wait until one of those camera people get assaulted by someone who doesn't want to be on camera. Then other media members can talk about media members getting their asses kicked. The cops can use that footage to arrest people and you get more content for your thread. Navel gazing! Everyone wins.

Offline Trim

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2020, 08:54:29 PM »
Yeah, wait until one of those camera people get assaulted by someone who doesn't want to be on camera. Then other media members can talk about media members getting their asses kicked. The cops can use that footage to arrest people and you get more content for your thread. Navel gazing! Everyone wins.

In this hypothetical, the cops wouldn't be arresting anyone unless either 1) it happened dead smack in front of cops, maybe even snowballing into cops and thus no footage would be needed, or 2) the aggrieved victims proactively delivered their footage to the cops and demanded action taken.  There'd be no request for a subpoena, let alone granting of a subpoena for such footage. 

And yeah, I'm sure whatever principles are being stood by re: footage would be upended when those media types have an interest in seeing justice for themselves.

You should look at that 21-page subpoena and see how narrow the fact pattern really is.  It's not really 21 whole pages of reading; there's a lot of pictures that take up a bunch of space that show the Judge what the deficiencies are in the info they already have and what's needed to potentially assist with solving the crimes of arson and stealing guns*.

*and it's gotta be embarrassing for the cops to have to be solving this crime so publicly now, as the cops whose guns were stolen were/are getting investigated for why they left their guns in their cars to be stolen

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2020, 09:20:06 PM »
Are we concerned about violence against a convience store owner who complies with a subpoena to share security cam footage of a crime down the block?
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2020, 11:07:03 PM »
Are we concerned about violence against a convenience store owner who complies with a subpoena to share security cam footage of a crime down the block?

His/her First Amendment rights, tho...

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2020, 11:35:51 PM »
Quote
We find this measure to be of the utmost importance, given that the free press is essential to a functioning democracy, while acknowledging the universal maxim that snitches get stitches.

-Floor debate on First Amendment

Offline gatoveintisiete

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #95 on: July 26, 2020, 12:01:20 AM »
I haven't followed any of the discussions itt but based on the participating posters and the sequence of posts I know exactly what has happened.        :lol:
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #96 on: July 26, 2020, 03:29:35 AM »
Are we concerned about violence against a convience store owner who complies with a subpoena to share security cam footage of a crime down the block?

Those two things aren't the same things though, are they? Are news cameras specifically for documenting crime like those security cameras? Are there shield laws created to protect constitutionally granted Freedom of the Quick Mart?

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #97 on: July 26, 2020, 11:38:03 AM »
Hey man, you're the one that said they shouldn't have to comply because of fear of violence. That has nothing to do with the first amendment and I just wondered if you think the kwik-e-mart should be given the same consideration.
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #98 on: July 26, 2020, 12:58:39 PM »
Hey man, you're the one that said they shouldn't have to comply because of fear of violence. That has nothing to do with the first amendment and I just wondered if you think the kwik-e-mart should be given the same consideration.

I didn't say that's why they shouldn't comply, however It is a high potential consequence of the ruling.

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Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
« Reply #99 on: July 26, 2020, 02:09:05 PM »
I don’t really understand the rationale behind protecting video/photographic footage taken in public.


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