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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: Trim on May 31, 2020, 10:44:50 AM

Title: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: Trim on May 31, 2020, 10:44:50 AM
From the original:

A lot of journalists have “f) some cnn people were arrested for a little bit” at the top of their lists.
Yes, this reminds me of when Frank was mean to some townie journos and they all lost their minds.

:lol:

(https://i.imgur.com/AxnoD2J_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)


Keep the real victims, the journalists, in your T&P's tonight.

On this theme, journalists are VERY concerned that Trump falsely said DC police weren't helping with protest control last night



Also this lol







?s=20

Heros




Journalists are really pissed about journalists getting shot with rubber bullets



:lol:

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on May 31, 2020, 10:45:03 AM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on May 31, 2020, 10:45:21 AM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on May 31, 2020, 10:47:15 AM
Maybe goes better in greatest K-State beat writer threat, but whatever.


Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: catastrophe on May 31, 2020, 10:57:25 AM
How do you “stop” a guy who had no intention of hurting anyone?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: catastrophe on May 31, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
My fav so far is def the pic of the guy’s bruise with an explanation that he’ll be ok.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: wetwillie on May 31, 2020, 11:11:05 AM
Maybe goes better in greatest K-State beat writer threat, but whatever.



I’m really starting to worry about him
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on May 31, 2020, 11:37:37 AM
Splitting the Matt Hall stuff out, mocking journalists for covering the police going after journalists doesn't show what you think it does.

Journalists have covered war zones with more safety than is being provided on city streets in America. These tough guy cops can't even be as restrained as third world dictators.  The CNN thing should have gotten even more coverage. Knowing what the MPD knew about what is going on in the city and in this country, they couldn't even be bothered to let two black journalists do their job, when there were white media members all over the rough ridin' place. How many black members of the press do you think those cops saw that day, in comparison to the white media members. It wasn't some coincidence that those two guys were the ones arrested.

The media are the only things providing the checks to the cops causing havoc and destruction. God knows the districts attorney won't rough ridin' do anything about these abusive cops. All we have are cameras and potential shame from being exposed.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: michigancat on May 31, 2020, 02:15:12 PM
Splitting the Matt Hall stuff out, mocking journalists for covering the police going after journalists doesn't show what you think it does.

Journalists have covered war zones with more safety than is being provided on city streets in America. These tough guy cops can't even be as restrained as third world dictators.  The CNN thing should have gotten even more coverage. Knowing what the MPD knew about what is going on in the city and in this country, they couldn't even be bothered to let two black journalists do their job, when there were white media members all over the rough ridin' place. How many black members of the press do you think those cops saw that day, in comparison to the white media members. It wasn't some coincidence that those two guys were the ones arrested.

The media are the only things providing the checks to the cops causing havoc and destruction. God knows the districts attorney won't rough ridin' do anything about these abusive cops. All we have are cameras and potential shame from being exposed.
You make good points. I think my issue is that there's this attitude that what is happening to the press is far worse than what is happening to protestors based on the level of condemnation you see from them.

Also you have to admit the CNN sign tweet was pretty bad.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: sys on May 31, 2020, 03:42:29 PM
Splitting the Matt Hall stuff out, mocking journalists for covering the police going after journalists doesn't show what you think it does.

Journalists have covered war zones with more safety than is being provided on city streets in America. These tough guy cops can't even be as restrained as third world dictators.  The CNN thing should have gotten even more coverage. Knowing what the MPD knew about what is going on in the city and in this country, they couldn't even be bothered to let two black journalists do their job, when there were white media members all over the rough ridin' place. How many black members of the press do you think those cops saw that day, in comparison to the white media members. It wasn't some coincidence that those two guys were the ones arrested.

The media are the only things providing the checks to the cops causing havoc and destruction. God knows the districts attorney won't rough ridin' do anything about these abusive cops. All we have are cameras and potential shame from being exposed.

completely agree.  the media can slip into unattractive navel gazing at times, but it is vital that they cover these events (and everything else).  it is a huge deal that law enforcement, broadly speaking, appears to be targeting them and preventing or impeding their ability to observe and communicate the events to the public.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on May 31, 2020, 03:51:10 PM
media navel gazing

I'm keeping my thread title, but yes, that's what this thread is for.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: michigancat on May 31, 2020, 04:52:01 PM
wesley lowery hits at what I was trying to say better than I did (thread):


Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on May 31, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
I don't get the impression that the media thinks what is happening to them is any worse than what happens to the protesters. I actually think of the media as a whole the same way that I do the protesters. Their role in this is to tell the story of the protesters, they are right there along side of them. They're getting arrested, gassed, and assaulted just like the protesters are.

The CNN tweet was cringy, but I agree with the sentiment. I also think that the media gets undue crap and not enough credit for doing good, this was before they had to deal with the orange ape and his fake news army. The fact that they're always being mocked, from all sides, probably has a bit to do with the navel gazing.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on May 31, 2020, 07:48:07 PM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on May 31, 2020, 08:30:24 PM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on May 31, 2020, 08:34:22 PM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: sonofdaxjones on June 01, 2020, 12:00:14 AM
Yahh Violence!!

?s=20

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: sys on June 01, 2020, 12:02:08 AM
garrett haake (good dude) gets hit by a police projectile (he later said he thought it was a bean bag or something, not one of the rubber bullets). this is kind of a funny clip, but i've seen a couple of photos on twitter of people who have apparently lost an eye or lost vision in an eye from rubber bullets.


Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: bucket on June 01, 2020, 12:09:56 AM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: nicname on June 01, 2020, 12:12:10 AM
delete
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Spracne on June 01, 2020, 12:13:41 AM
garrett haake (good dude) gets hit by a police projectile (he later said he thought it was a bean bag or something, not one of the rubber bullets). this is kind of a funny clip, but i've seen a couple of photos on twitter of people who have apparently lost an eye or lost vision in an eye from rubber bullets.

Lol. That is pretty funny.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: DQ12 on June 01, 2020, 12:14:24 AM
Yeah I definitely do not envy the journos in the middle of this crap.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: sonofdaxjones on June 01, 2020, 12:16:16 AM
Apparently a rare incident of gun play in BHAM

?s=20
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on June 01, 2020, 12:24:51 AM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on June 01, 2020, 08:55:41 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
:lol:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/espn-nba-reporter-tweets-george-floyd-protests/1eefhr1gpdx791oxlllizoun9i
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: sys on June 01, 2020, 02:35:06 PM
not good.

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on June 01, 2020, 09:23:23 PM
My God, I wasn't prepared for how 100% awful that dudes tweets are. Also I've literally been reading NBA stories since ESPN started a website and I've never heard of that dude.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: sys on June 01, 2020, 11:57:56 PM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: michigancat on June 02, 2020, 12:34:58 AM



I mean, our president should be doing the same for this and hundreds of other cases that have been filmed in the last five days. At the very least governors and mayors should
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on June 02, 2020, 01:26:22 AM
How in the eff did we miss this?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: catastrophe on June 02, 2020, 09:09:12 AM
Wow those guys are idiots
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: 8manpick on June 02, 2020, 09:09:55 AM
How in the eff did we miss this?
That cop should be in jail for years
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: star seed 7 on June 02, 2020, 10:30:48 AM

View from the cameraman assaulted in DC last night
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on June 02, 2020, 03:24:30 PM
This dumb wench writes for the Washington Examiner

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on June 02, 2020, 03:26:25 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: star seed 7 on June 02, 2020, 07:50:08 PM

This account = this thread. The pinned tweet is a running tally of incidents.

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on June 02, 2020, 09:36:59 PM


BTW this was 24 hours after Des Moines cops were doing that fake take a knee crap. The officers have generally been good here but the two days they have really gone crazy is when the protesters gathered at the state capitol building, which is what happened here.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on June 02, 2020, 09:44:53 PM
BREAKING!!!
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on June 02, 2020, 09:46:10 PM
https://heavy.com/news/2020/06/fiona-moriarty-mclaughlin-instagram-viral-video/
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Institutional Control on June 03, 2020, 10:29:32 AM
?s=20
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: michigancat on June 03, 2020, 10:46:18 AM
I don't know enough about journalism law to know why journalists shouldn't be arrested for doing exactly what other citizens are being arrested for
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: DQ12 on June 03, 2020, 10:48:19 AM
I don't know enough about journalism law to know why journalists shouldn't be arrested for doing exactly what other citizens are being arrested for
And in this day and age where everyone's holding a camera phone with access to twitter, I don't really know that the "journalist"/"other citizens" distinction really even meaningfully exists.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on June 03, 2020, 11:55:25 AM
I don't know enough about journalism law to know why journalists shouldn't be arrested for doing exactly what other citizens are being arrested for

No specific laws, of course the first amendment allows for freedom of speech along with freedom to assemble

I don't know enough about journalism law to know why journalists shouldn't be arrested for doing exactly what other citizens are being arrested for
And in this day and age where everyone's holding a camera phone with access to twitter, I don't really know that the "journalist"/"other citizens" distinction really even meaningfully exists.

He has a press pass, it's just another case of the NYPD acting first, asking questions somewhere else down the line, literally the opposite of what they should be doing. That journalist and the rest of the people those cops were chasing were not in the act of committing a crime. Detain first, ask questions later is exactly what's broken here.

I'll also point out that the NYPD should be questioned as to whether they are targeting media because of the scrutiny they have faced.

I'll also mention again that the police today are treating media much worse than the North Vietnamese communists during the Vietnam War.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: DQ12 on June 03, 2020, 12:25:04 PM
I don't know enough about journalism law to know why journalists shouldn't be arrested for doing exactly what other citizens are being arrested for

No specific laws, of course the first amendment allows for freedom of speech along with freedom to assemble

I don't know enough about journalism law to know why journalists shouldn't be arrested for doing exactly what other citizens are being arrested for
And in this day and age where everyone's holding a camera phone with access to twitter, I don't really know that the "journalist"/"other citizens" distinction really even meaningfully exists.

He has a press pass, it's just another case of the NYPD acting first, asking questions somewhere else down the line, literally the opposite of what they should be doing. That journalist and the rest of the people those cops were chasing were not in the act of committing a crime. Detain first, ask questions later is exactly what's broken here.

I'll also point out that the NYPD should be questioned as to whether they are targeting media because of the scrutiny they have faced.

I'll also mention again that the police today are treating media much worse than the North Vietnamese communists during the Vietnam War.
Yeah all I'm saying (really just wondering about -- haven't thought about it very much) is that using "I'm media!" as a distinct shield in 2020 doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  I'm not excusing what the cops did (to the media or anyone else) at all, I just don't know why a camera guy for CNN should have any more protection or freedom than some guy holding up a phone.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: michigancat on June 03, 2020, 12:29:46 PM
I'm more looking at it that if journalists shouldn't be harassed and beat up and arrested then all the other citizens shouldn't either

(Directed at MiR)
Title: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: catastrophe on June 03, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
I think at a bare minimum you should be entitled to a presumption you’re not any kind of a threat if you’re at a protest repping a major media outlet.

Should be much easier to prove a claim of excessive use of force if you’re a media member displaying credentials.

For rando dudes holding phones, cops would have a much easier time arguing they thought the person was about to attack or some BS like that.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on June 03, 2020, 12:40:54 PM
Who issues press credentials for gathering/protest/riot coverage?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: DQ12 on June 03, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
Who issues press credentials for gathering/protest/riot coverage?
My understanding is that Kenny Lanaou issues press credentials for everything.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on June 03, 2020, 02:14:14 PM
Who issues press credentials for gathering/protest/riot coverage?
My understanding is that Kenny Lanaou issues press credentials for everything.

I was thinking of exactly that when I asked. :lol:

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on June 03, 2020, 06:55:50 PM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: sys on June 03, 2020, 10:31:53 PM
good headline.

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on June 04, 2020, 01:33:38 AM
No one thinks the media should not be subjected to more freedoms that any other citizen. Did that really need to be said? When you are hearing these men and women say "I'm media" it's much easier to say that than "Hey, I'm here for my job, someone else is requiring me to be here. I need my job. I like eating and paying my bills. Please don't shoot, gas, beat, or arrest me, I'm working, just like you are."
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: chum1 on June 04, 2020, 07:10:07 AM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on June 04, 2020, 12:26:26 PM

Quote
The world's five deadliest countries for journalists include three — India, Mexico and, for the first time, the United States — where journalists were killed in cold blood, even though those countries weren't at war or in conflict, the group said.

"The hatred of journalists that is voiced ... by unscrupulous politicians, religious leaders and businessmen has tragic consequences on the ground, and has been reflected in this disturbing increase in violations against journalists," Secretary-General Christophe Deloire said in a statement.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: DQ12 on June 04, 2020, 02:00:48 PM
That article is a year and a half old. 

From the referenced report in the article:

Quote
The United States joined the ranks of the world’s deadliest countries for the media this
year, with a total of six journalists killed. Four journalists were among the five employees
of the Capital Gazette, a local newspaper in Annapolis, Maryland, who were killed on
28 June when a man walked in and opened fire with a shotgun. He had been harassing
the newspaper for six years on Twitter about a 2011 article that named him. It was the
deadliest attack on a media outlet in the US in modern history. Two other journalists, a
local TV anchor and cameraman, were killed by a falling tree while covering Subtropical
Storm Alberto’s extreme weather in North Carolina in May.
https://rsf.org/sites/default/files/worldwilde_round-up.pdf

smh
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on June 04, 2020, 02:09:26 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: DQ12 on June 04, 2020, 02:19:29 PM
The time has come for America to stop falling trees from 2018's subtropical storm Alberto.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: chum1 on June 04, 2020, 10:34:26 PM
Apparently, everyone gets their turn.

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on June 05, 2020, 03:09:49 PM
That article is a year and a half old. 

From the referenced report in the article:

Quote
The United States joined the ranks of the world’s deadliest countries for the media this
year, with a total of six journalists killed. Four journalists were among the five employees
of the Capital Gazette, a local newspaper in Annapolis, Maryland, who were killed on
28 June when a man walked in and opened fire with a shotgun. He had been harassing
the newspaper for six years on Twitter about a 2011 article that named him. It was the
deadliest attack on a media outlet in the US in modern history. Two other journalists, a
local TV anchor and cameraman, were killed by a falling tree while covering Subtropical
Storm Alberto’s extreme weather in North Carolina in May.
https://rsf.org/sites/default/files/worldwilde_round-up.pdf

smh

I know how old the article was, I just found it interesting for the thread, it's not like there's been a new found adoration for the media since 2018. The dudes falling out of the tree is tragic and hilarious.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on June 05, 2020, 03:11:57 PM
Apparently, everyone gets their turn.


NYPD, weird, they're never unhinged.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 01:09:08 PM
:lol:


Here's the actual subpoena.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7006585-Subpoena-Duces-Tecum-Seattle-Times-Company-Et-Al.html
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 01:39:06 PM
I'm not going to read a 21 page subpoena, so you're going to have to tell me what's funny about that press release. This seems to be a very clear first amendment infringement.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: catastrophe on July 25, 2020, 01:44:34 PM
Looks like the subpoena is for relevant photos and videos in their possession. Not sure how that implicates the first amendment.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 01:48:08 PM
The request is for footage that exists over the course of 90 minutes within 2 square blocks that could solve the remaining mysteries of an arson and stolen firearms, and the Judge (with knowledge of the first amendment) granted it.

So now press releases like that and other virtual journalism lawn orgies are happening.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: catastrophe on July 25, 2020, 01:52:46 PM
Not that I think the subpoena undermines the press release. I just think the position is kind of ridiculous that just because you’re a journalist you shouldn’t have to provide helpful documents that anyone else would be required to provide.

This isn’t an instance of going after confidential sources of information. MAYBE the photos and videos show identities of informants but that’s not what the press release says.

They should just publicly post the raw footage. Seems much more in line with their mission as journalists.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 02:03:44 PM
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 02:08:02 PM
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/

All of the quotes that journalism school student put together in your link and that it was presented that way at all in the link, are more examples of the things I'm lol'n at.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: catastrophe on July 25, 2020, 02:17:41 PM
Yeah, their point is that people might attack journalists if they knew the journalists would have to give over their footage in a criminal investigation? And that is why the First Amendment is at risk?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 02:18:31 PM
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/

All of the quotes that journalism school student put together in your link and that it was presented that way at all in the link, are more examples of the things I'm lol'n at.

Those quotes are from three different attorneys and none from journalists. Maybe move this to the prosecutors who will let the cops do whatever they want despite the pleas from constitutionalists thread?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 02:28:35 PM
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/

All of the quotes that journalism school student put together in your link and that it was presented that way at all in the link, are more examples of the things I'm lol'n at.

Those quotes are from three different attorneys and none from journalists. Maybe move this to the prosecutors who will let the cops do whatever they want despite the pleas from constitutionalists thread?

Maybe four!  Not sure about Frank.

Quote
Madeline Lamo, a media litigation fellow for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Frank LoMonte, the director for the Brechner Center for Freedom of Information at the University of Florida

Eric Stahl, the attorney representing the five news outlets

NPPA general counsel Mickey Osterreicher

And it's quite an argument they've presented to constituent media types.  But in the real world and particularly in court, it's lol ridiculous, the court part being especially relevant to attorneys.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 02:51:34 PM
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/

All of the quotes that journalism school student put together in your link and that it was presented that way at all in the link, are more examples of the things I'm lol'n at.

Those quotes are from three different attorneys and none from journalists. Maybe move this to the prosecutors who will let the cops do whatever they want despite the pleas from constitutionalists thread?

Maybe four!  Not sure about Frank.

Quote
Madeline Lamo, a media litigation fellow for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Frank LoMonte, the director for the Brechner Center for Freedom of Information at the University of Florida

Eric Stahl, the attorney representing the five news outlets

NPPA general counsel Mickey Osterreicher

And it's quite an argument they've presented to constituent media types.  But in the real world and particularly in court, it's lol ridiculous, the court part being especially relevant to attorneys.

So how do you propose this goes down?

Cops: Hey Seattle media, we want to solve some crimes and our investigation has hit a snag, give us your video and photos.
Times, KIRO, KING, KOMO: uh, isn't there a shield law that protects us from giving that to you?
Cops: We're the cops, rough ridin' give it to us.
Media: uh wait. Lawyers, do we have to do this
Media Attorneys: sure why not, give it to them, give them whatever they need, it should be fine, the cops won't overreach at all.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Spracne on July 25, 2020, 02:58:17 PM
This isn't some sort of novel concept. It's a subpoena, like any other.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Justwin on July 25, 2020, 03:08:14 PM
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/

All of the quotes that journalism school student put together in your link and that it was presented that way at all in the link, are more examples of the things I'm lol'n at.

Those quotes are from three different attorneys and none from journalists. Maybe move this to the prosecutors who will let the cops do whatever they want despite the pleas from constitutionalists thread?

Maybe four!  Not sure about Frank.

Quote
Madeline Lamo, a media litigation fellow for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Frank LoMonte, the director for the Brechner Center for Freedom of Information at the University of Florida

Eric Stahl, the attorney representing the five news outlets

NPPA general counsel Mickey Osterreicher

And it's quite an argument they've presented to constituent media types.  But in the real world and particularly in court, it's lol ridiculous, the court part being especially relevant to attorneys.

So how do you propose this goes down?

Cops: Hey Seattle media, we want to solve some crimes and our investigation has hit a snag, give us your video and photos.
Times, KIRO, KING, KOMO: uh, isn't there a shield law that protects us from giving that to you?
Cops: We're the cops, rough ridin' give it to us.
Media: uh wait. Lawyers, do we have to do this
Media Attorneys: sure why not, give it to them, give them whatever they need, it should be fine, the cops won't overreach at all.

You sure seem to think the First Amendment is important.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 03:28:27 PM
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/

All of the quotes that journalism school student put together in your link and that it was presented that way at all in the link, are more examples of the things I'm lol'n at.

Those quotes are from three different attorneys and none from journalists. Maybe move this to the prosecutors who will let the cops do whatever they want despite the pleas from constitutionalists thread?

Maybe four!  Not sure about Frank.

Quote
Madeline Lamo, a media litigation fellow for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Frank LoMonte, the director for the Brechner Center for Freedom of Information at the University of Florida

Eric Stahl, the attorney representing the five news outlets

NPPA general counsel Mickey Osterreicher

And it's quite an argument they've presented to constituent media types.  But in the real world and particularly in court, it's lol ridiculous, the court part being especially relevant to attorneys.

So how do you propose this goes down?

Cops: Hey Seattle media, we want to solve some crimes and our investigation has hit a snag, give us your video and photos.
Times, KIRO, KING, KOMO: uh, isn't there a shield law that protects us from giving that to you?
Cops: We're the cops, rough ridin' give it to us.
Media: uh wait. Lawyers, do we have to do this
Media Attorneys: sure why not, give it to them, give them whatever they need, it should be fine, the cops won't overreach at all.

You sure seem to think the First Amendment is important.

lol, when did I indicate that it wasn't? Don't be dense, literally every single person in this county values the first amendment. You think I don't because I interpret it differently than you do? That's MAGA as eff. It's a nebulous 45 word passage created 230 years ago when it was legal to own slaves, there are thousands if not millions of ways to interpret it.

I don't think it should be used as a shield for people who intend on terrorizing people, how very unamerican of me.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 03:32:03 PM
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/

All of the quotes that journalism school student put together in your link and that it was presented that way at all in the link, are more examples of the things I'm lol'n at.

Those quotes are from three different attorneys and none from journalists. Maybe move this to the prosecutors who will let the cops do whatever they want despite the pleas from constitutionalists thread?

Maybe four!  Not sure about Frank.

Quote
Madeline Lamo, a media litigation fellow for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Frank LoMonte, the director for the Brechner Center for Freedom of Information at the University of Florida

Eric Stahl, the attorney representing the five news outlets

NPPA general counsel Mickey Osterreicher

And it's quite an argument they've presented to constituent media types.  But in the real world and particularly in court, it's lol ridiculous, the court part being especially relevant to attorneys.

So how do you propose this goes down?

Cops: Hey Seattle media, we want to solve some crimes and our investigation has hit a snag, give us your video and photos.
Times, KIRO, KING, KOMO: uh, isn't there a shield law that protects us from giving that to you?
Cops: We're the cops, rough ridin' give it to us.
Media: uh wait. Lawyers, do we have to do this
Media Attorneys: sure why not, give it to them, give them whatever they need, it should be fine, the cops won't overreach at all.

Not quite.

Cops: Well, eff. The piece we need might be in the hands of Times, KIRO, KING, KOMO.  We're gonna need to request a subpoena from the court.
Court: [reviews subpoena].  Yep, this is narrow enough and meets all the criteria, granted.
Media: [upon getting subpoena and deciding to extrapolate it to some ingrained principle] We don't want to obey this, let's talk to lawyers.
Media attorneys: [reviewing and knowing it's a loser but whatever, this isn't a contingency case] Yeah, we'll take your case and argue to court and also argue in the press
Media and media attorneys: [upon losing] let's keep making a thing of this, which is easy as we are the entity that informs people
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 03:38:18 PM
So we're to the point where owning the bloggers is more important than the media's need to cover stories without the cops scouring their footage and notes to find "criminals." There's no Pandora's Box potential here at all. Trim, you used to be a prosecutor, right?

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/seattle-times-judge-subpoena-protest-police/

All of the quotes that journalism school student put together in your link and that it was presented that way at all in the link, are more examples of the things I'm lol'n at.

Those quotes are from three different attorneys and none from journalists. Maybe move this to the prosecutors who will let the cops do whatever they want despite the pleas from constitutionalists thread?

Maybe four!  Not sure about Frank.

Quote
Madeline Lamo, a media litigation fellow for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Frank LoMonte, the director for the Brechner Center for Freedom of Information at the University of Florida

Eric Stahl, the attorney representing the five news outlets

NPPA general counsel Mickey Osterreicher

And it's quite an argument they've presented to constituent media types.  But in the real world and particularly in court, it's lol ridiculous, the court part being especially relevant to attorneys.

So how do you propose this goes down?

Cops: Hey Seattle media, we want to solve some crimes and our investigation has hit a snag, give us your video and photos.
Times, KIRO, KING, KOMO: uh, isn't there a shield law that protects us from giving that to you?
Cops: We're the cops, rough ridin' give it to us.
Media: uh wait. Lawyers, do we have to do this
Media Attorneys: sure why not, give it to them, give them whatever they need, it should be fine, the cops won't overreach at all.

Not quite.

Cops: Well, eff. The piece we need might be in the hands of Times, KIRO, KING, KOMO.  We're gonna need to request a subpoena from the court.
Court: [reviews subpoena].  Yep, this is narrow enough and meets all the criteria, granted.
Media: [upon getting subpoena and deciding to extrapolate it to some ingrained principle] We don't want to obey this, let's talk to lawyers.
Media attorneys: [reviewing and knowing it's a loser but whatever, this isn't a contingency case] Yeah, we'll take your case and argue to court and also argue in the press
Media and media attorneys: [upon losing] let's keep making a thing of this, which is easy as we are the entity that informs people

So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 03:45:27 PM
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 03:47:21 PM
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.

So where do you stand with the media covering other entities who lost judgments in court?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 03:50:59 PM
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.

So where do you stand with the media covering other entities who lost judgments in court?

I'll look at an example, but generally #coverage of a court case involving parties that don't have any connections to the coverage'r will include the full perspectives and arguments each side made and the rationale the court used in making its ruling.  And then there'll usually be statements from both sides about their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the result.  And that's all fine.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 04:19:32 PM
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.

So where do you stand with the media covering other entities who lost judgments in court?

I'll look at an example, but generally #coverage of a court case involving parties that don't have any connections to the coverage'r will include the full perspectives and arguments each side made and the rationale the court used in making its ruling.  And then there'll usually be statements from both sides about their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the result.  And that's all fine.

So the media can't cover the media?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 04:27:00 PM
So your contention isn't that they shouldn't have fought for their right to keep the photos and videos protected, but after they lost the ruling they shouldn't have been worried/pissed about it?

To some extent I think it was a waste of time and/or disingenuous and borderline unethical to fight the subpoena, but yes, my original post today is much more so about the post-loss media blitz. 

There's a similar effect though from both.  What they've argued both to the Court and now about the Court's ruling is so ridiculous when you actually look at the facts of this case hurts their credibility, to me, in any future arguments that may have much more legitimacy.

So where do you stand with the media covering other entities who lost judgments in court?

I'll look at an example, but generally #coverage of a court case involving parties that don't have any connections to the coverage'r will include the full perspectives and arguments each side made and the rationale the court used in making its ruling.  And then there'll usually be statements from both sides about their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the result.  And that's all fine.

So the media can't cover the media?

As we see all the time, not very well!
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 04:35:39 PM
(https://images.axios.com/gcutfJYbL46WDQfxWNB4qB3Ir30=/fit-in/1920x1920/2020/05/11/1589206235552.gif)
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: DaBigTrain on July 25, 2020, 05:08:53 PM
(https://images.axios.com/gcutfJYbL46WDQfxWNB4qB3Ir30=/fit-in/1920x1920/2020/05/11/1589206235552.gif)
Oh my I haven’t seen this one before :love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 05:12:05 PM
gif

What's moved?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 06:21:17 PM
T’s & P’s.


Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 07:35:29 PM
T’s & P’s.



The cops are now allowed to take camera footage from the networks, this is the inevitable result. Who the eff wants to be on camera now that the footage can be used to arrest you, or to pressure you to snitch on someone else. The cops got what they really wanted and it was for the Seattle media to cover protests and riots less. Exactly what we all need. Grats on owning the media though.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 07:38:33 PM
The premise of this entire thread is really rough ridin' stupid. Mock the media actually out documenting the protests while we're at home doing jack crap. Co-oping trump to own the bloggers. Hot crap.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 07:40:15 PM
The cops got what they really wanted and it was for the Seattle media to cover protests and riots less. Exactly what we all need.

Didn't work.

https://komonews.com/watch
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Spracne on July 25, 2020, 08:03:16 PM
The premise of this entire thread is really rough ridin' stupid. Mock the media actually out documenting the protests while we're at home doing jack crap. Co-oping trump to own the bloggers. Hot crap.

(https://images.axios.com/gcutfJYbL46WDQfxWNB4qB3Ir30=/fit-in/1920x1920/2020/05/11/1589206235552.gif)
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 25, 2020, 08:36:59 PM
The cops got what they really wanted and it was for the Seattle media to cover protests and riots less. Exactly what we all need.

Didn't work.

https://komonews.com/watch

Yeah, wait until one of those camera people get assaulted by someone who doesn't want to be on camera. Then other media members can talk about media members getting their asses kicked. The cops can use that footage to arrest people and you get more content for your thread. Navel gazing! Everyone wins.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: bucket on July 25, 2020, 08:42:32 PM
The cops got what they really wanted and it was for the Seattle media to cover protests and riots less. Exactly what we all need.

Didn't work.

https://komonews.com/watch

And here we are

Yeah, wait until one of those camera people get assaulted by someone who doesn't want to be on camera. Then other media members can talk about media members getting their asses kicked. The cops can use that footage to arrest people and you get more content for your thread. Navel gazing! Everyone wins.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on July 25, 2020, 08:54:29 PM
Yeah, wait until one of those camera people get assaulted by someone who doesn't want to be on camera. Then other media members can talk about media members getting their asses kicked. The cops can use that footage to arrest people and you get more content for your thread. Navel gazing! Everyone wins.

In this hypothetical, the cops wouldn't be arresting anyone unless either 1) it happened dead smack in front of cops, maybe even snowballing into cops and thus no footage would be needed, or 2) the aggrieved victims proactively delivered their footage to the cops and demanded action taken.  There'd be no request for a subpoena, let alone granting of a subpoena for such footage. 

And yeah, I'm sure whatever principles are being stood by re: footage would be upended when those media types have an interest in seeing justice for themselves.

You should look at that 21-page subpoena and see how narrow the fact pattern really is.  It's not really 21 whole pages of reading; there's a lot of pictures that take up a bunch of space that show the Judge what the deficiencies are in the info they already have and what's needed to potentially assist with solving the crimes of arson and stealing guns*.

*and it's gotta be embarrassing for the cops to have to be solving this crime so publicly now, as the cops whose guns were stolen were/are getting investigated for why they left their guns in their cars to be stolen
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: star seed 7 on July 25, 2020, 09:20:06 PM
Are we concerned about violence against a convience store owner who complies with a subpoena to share security cam footage of a crime down the block?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Spracne on July 25, 2020, 11:07:03 PM
Are we concerned about violence against a convenience store owner who complies with a subpoena to share security cam footage of a crime down the block?

His/her First Amendment rights, tho...
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: catastrophe on July 25, 2020, 11:35:51 PM
Quote
We find this measure to be of the utmost importance, given that the free press is essential to a functioning democracy, while acknowledging the universal maxim that snitches get stitches.

-Floor debate on First Amendment
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 26, 2020, 12:01:20 AM
I haven't followed any of the discussions itt but based on the participating posters and the sequence of posts I know exactly what has happened.        :lol:
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 26, 2020, 03:29:35 AM
Are we concerned about violence against a convience store owner who complies with a subpoena to share security cam footage of a crime down the block?

Those two things aren't the same things though, are they? Are news cameras specifically for documenting crime like those security cameras? Are there shield laws created to protect constitutionally granted Freedom of the Quick Mart?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: star seed 7 on July 26, 2020, 11:38:03 AM
Hey man, you're the one that said they shouldn't have to comply because of fear of violence. That has nothing to do with the first amendment and I just wondered if you think the kwik-e-mart should be given the same consideration.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 26, 2020, 12:58:39 PM
Hey man, you're the one that said they shouldn't have to comply because of fear of violence. That has nothing to do with the first amendment and I just wondered if you think the kwik-e-mart should be given the same consideration.

I didn't say that's why they shouldn't comply, however It is a high potential consequence of the ruling.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: DQ12 on July 26, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
I don’t really understand the rationale behind protecting video/photographic footage taken in public.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Spracne on July 26, 2020, 04:53:00 PM
There is zero expectation of privacy in public. How is it any different than the hundreds of camera phones capturing video?

Sounds like Trump's bogus "executive privilege" defense to everything. Just because the press and the Executive sometimes have special privileges does not mean they are entirely exempt from complying with legal process.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on July 26, 2020, 08:50:30 PM
I don’t really understand the rationale behind protecting video/photographic footage taken in public.

The issue isn't about the right of privacy of those photographed in public, the issue/problem is what you feel like is and what should be protected information gathered by the media. The fear of media attorneys and watch dog groups is if this is allowed, what's to stop the police from getting information about a source if that source said something publicly, or wherever these slippery slope conversations end up. The media, like attorneys, clergy, doctors, counselors, etc. receive privileged information. There are plenty of people who think that unreleased footage should fall under that privileged umbrella.

The fact that it happened publicly shouldn't make any difference. Even though it happened in public, that doesn't mean the cops are entitled to have it. Their investigations shouldn't entail shaking down media, counselors, etc. If a client told an attorney privileged information in a coffee shop, should that information be available to be subpoenaed because there was a chance that the guy cleaning the tables may have heard what was said?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: DQ12 on July 26, 2020, 09:48:26 PM
I don’t really understand the rationale behind protecting video/photographic footage taken in public.

The issue isn't about the right of privacy of those photographed in public, the issue/problem is what you feel like is and what should be protected information gathered by the media. The fear of media attorneys and watch dog groups is if this is allowed, what's to stop the police from getting information about a source if that source said something publicly, or wherever these slippery slope conversations end up. The media, like attorneys, clergy, doctors, counselors, etc. receive privileged information. There are plenty of people who think that unreleased footage should fall under that privileged umbrella.

The fact that it happened publicly shouldn't make any difference. Even though it happened in public, that doesn't mean the cops are entitled to have it. Their investigations shouldn't entail shaking down media, counselors, etc. If a client told an attorney privileged information in a coffee shop, should that information be available to be subpoenaed because there was a chance that the guy cleaning the tables may have heard what was said?
The answer to the bolded question is "the legislature and the rules of discovery/evidence in the subject jurisdiction."

If you want, I'm happy to point out the distinctions between the coffee shop legal counsel and a journalist having still images of individuals in public.  Though this is a wild example, I don't think a lawyer would be protected by any privilege if asked: "Did you, on the evening of July 26, 2020, see your client on Main Street throw a molotov cocktail."  I think that's the better analogy.

Revealing a confidential source or sharing off the record material are bright lines that don't really lend themselves to slippery slopes, imo.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Spracne on July 26, 2020, 10:18:56 PM
I don’t really understand the rationale behind protecting video/photographic footage taken in public.

The issue isn't about the right of privacy of those photographed in public, the issue/problem is what you feel like is and what should be protected information gathered by the media. The fear of media attorneys and watch dog groups is if this is allowed, what's to stop the police from getting information about a source if that source said something publicly, or wherever these slippery slope conversations end up. The media, like attorneys, clergy, doctors, counselors, etc. receive privileged information. There are plenty of people who think that unreleased footage should fall under that privileged umbrella.

The fact that it happened publicly shouldn't make any difference. Even though it happened in public, that doesn't mean the cops are entitled to have it. Their investigations shouldn't entail shaking down media, counselors, etc. If a client told an attorney privileged information in a coffee shop, should that information be available to be subpoenaed because there was a chance that the guy cleaning the tables may have heard what was said?
The answer to the bolded question is "the legislature and the rules of discovery/evidence in the subject jurisdiction."

If you want, I'm happy to point out the distinctions between the coffee shop legal counsel and a journalist having still images of individuals in public.  Though this is a wild example, I don't think a lawyer would be protected by any privilege if asked: "Did you, on the evening of July 26, 2020, see your client on Main Street throw a molotov cocktail."  I think that's the better analogy.

Revealing a confidential source or sharing off the record material are bright lines that don't really lend themselves to slippery slopes, imo.

Plus, you could just subpoena the busboy... The privilege disappears if you share those communications publicly.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on July 27, 2020, 10:27:49 AM
i would fire the crap out of my attorney if i was like "i have sensitive information i need to discuss w/ you" and the response i got was "understood. let's meet in a coffee shop with lots of people to discuss this matter that could be very damaging to you if this information was obtained by the wrong people"
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: catastrophe on July 27, 2020, 11:38:49 AM
Law firms, btw, get subpoenaed for client documents all the time. It’s really not that hard for the law to distinguish between stuff that is protected and stuff that is simply in a protected person’s possession.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on August 16, 2020, 09:07:27 AM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Institutional Control on September 24, 2020, 11:53:03 AM
?s=20
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: steve dave on September 24, 2020, 12:36:30 PM
lmao

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Institutional Control on September 24, 2020, 02:24:44 PM
THIS ISN'T CHINA!
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on September 24, 2020, 02:41:43 PM
THIS ISN'T CHINA!

Yet! (dax)
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Institutional Control on September 24, 2020, 06:40:30 PM
?s=21.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on September 28, 2020, 05:52:56 PM
https://www.q13fox.com/news/brandi-kruse-youre-paying-people-to-play-obstructionist
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on October 15, 2020, 09:40:28 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: wetwillie on October 15, 2020, 10:18:42 PM
Only thing missing is a hand written please take 1 note
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Tobias on October 16, 2020, 01:04:13 AM
top notch main administrating :emawkid:
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on October 16, 2020, 05:18:41 AM
Who was begging for free food and from whom were they begging?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: steve dave on October 19, 2020, 01:23:31 PM
WHO AMONGST US....




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MadCat on October 19, 2020, 01:42:39 PM
Did he complete the full helicopter?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: star seed 7 on October 19, 2020, 01:44:26 PM
"I thought the camera was muted"

Old people, lmao
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on October 19, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
I don't understand why you would pull your dick out if you thought the camera was off.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: star seed 7 on October 19, 2020, 01:54:30 PM
I don't understand why you would pull your dick out if you thought the camera was off.

(https://external-preview.redd.it/vWy2XgMMiDZZXkma8Rlsf25Im-_mKVJhChxu07KMZtg.jpg?auto=webp&s=838317d17d377d8a559137db0014927dcc4c07a4)
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Brock Landers on October 19, 2020, 02:10:31 PM
He took IT out??  We're gonna need Phil Titola's expertise on this one.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on October 19, 2020, 03:02:14 PM
Hero or persecuted?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Woogy on October 19, 2020, 03:25:44 PM
He took IT out??  We're gonna need Phil Titola's expertise on this one.

 :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzU6_3GqbFo

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on October 19, 2020, 04:46:31 PM
WHO AMONGST US....




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Oh my god, the only thing more mortifying than being caught beating off is it becoming public. Now he has to take time off to handle personal issues, for jacking off.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: steve dave on October 19, 2020, 06:04:45 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201019/ee39e8d4f0062a97079c356fc6352132.jpg)


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Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: star seed 7 on October 19, 2020, 06:07:10 PM
lol
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on October 19, 2020, 08:35:17 PM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on October 20, 2020, 03:15:22 PM


Apparently anti-Semitic q-coon, Larry Johnson was caping up for OJ in response to this tweet but he deleted it.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: wetwillie on October 20, 2020, 07:29:26 PM
I wish I knew what that means
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on October 20, 2020, 08:26:05 PM
I wish I knew what that means

What isn't clear?
Jeff Toobin beat off during a zoom call.
OJ Simpson is a murderer, mocking Jeff Toobin because Toobin has spent 25 years calling OJ a murderer.
Jake Tapper reminded OJ that he killed two people and he should shut up
Washed up former running back Larry Johnson, who hates Jews, sells out black people, and often spreads conspiracy theories from QAnon, took up for OJ Simpson before deleting the tweet.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: wetwillie on October 20, 2020, 08:56:34 PM
Well that is much easier to follow
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Spracne on October 22, 2020, 10:30:58 AM
Not sure if real, but I'm enjoying digesting the various facial expressions.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: steve dave on October 22, 2020, 10:32:14 AM
Not sure if real, but I'm enjoying digesting the various facial expressions.

same on both points for me
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: michigancat on October 22, 2020, 10:35:23 AM
I think you guys were sure it wasn't real

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_CYjT16Ou8&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: steve dave on October 22, 2020, 10:38:12 AM
SAD! I'll delete
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on October 22, 2020, 11:37:11 AM
crap, what did we miss? Did someone release the video of ol boy choking his chicken?

Funny video, rusty
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: steve dave on October 22, 2020, 11:45:50 AM
crap, what did we miss? Did someone release the video of ol boy choking his chicken?

Funny video, rusty

twitter was running with an alleged screenshot of him but it was a doctored up screenshot of that video
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: mocat on November 16, 2020, 10:25:47 AM
?s=19
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on November 16, 2020, 02:27:09 PM
?s=19

lol, merge with wife of lineman posts
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: _33 on November 17, 2020, 04:27:10 PM
Journalists wearing "Journalism Matters" masks are incredibly obnoxious.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on November 17, 2020, 05:27:57 PM
Journalists wearing "Journalism Matters" masks are incredibly obnoxious.

Probably wouldn't be necessary if the POTUS and all of his drones didn't spend the last 5 years attempting, literally daily, to delegitimize the entire profession. Even liberals use the term fake news.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 18, 2020, 11:25:34 AM
As good a place as any. 

Stunning

https://nyti.ms/37vrmbb
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on December 18, 2020, 06:21:41 PM
The NYT remains a trash rag echo chamber for elite moderates.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on December 21, 2020, 05:58:30 PM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on December 21, 2020, 09:26:41 PM

There seems to be a pattern of these dudes only getting tough with a man or woman with a camera in their hand.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: 8manpick on December 23, 2020, 10:09:25 AM
?s=21
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on December 23, 2020, 10:50:00 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on December 23, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Journalists think a journalist hooking up with the guy who price gouged a pill and bought the wu tang record is a very important story.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Spracne on December 23, 2020, 10:53:28 AM
Has there ever been such a perfect fit between a tweet and a thread topic before?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: star seed 7 on December 23, 2020, 10:55:56 AM
Journalists think a journalist hooking up with the guy who price gouged a pill and bought the wu tang record is a very important story.

It's insane that this story is repeatedly in my news feed.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: steve dave on December 23, 2020, 01:25:54 PM
Journalists favorite thing to write and post about is journalists so it makes sense


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Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on December 23, 2020, 07:05:19 PM
Journalists think a journalist hooking up with the guy who price gouged a pill and bought the wu tang record is a very important story.

It's insane that this story is repeatedly in my news feed.

Who's rough ridin' that little rat? I didn't see it. I did see an athlete say they wanted to kick his ass but I forgot which athlete it was.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: ChiComCat on December 24, 2020, 08:38:57 AM
A bunch of people dogging her only kind of want to hear that wu-tang album, but she's wu-tang 4 ever.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on December 24, 2020, 11:58:07 AM
Finally saw the story, if you don't think a woman leaving her husband for a rat faced crap bag in prison, only for the rat faced crap bag to dump the lady from prison via his attorney is funny and the most man bites dog story of 2020 you're just being an insufferable hater. That's an amazing story regardless of the profession of the protagonist.

There's some irony in an attorney starting this thread and constantly misapplying stories that go in it.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on December 24, 2020, 12:41:03 PM
Finally saw the story, if you don't think a woman leaving her husband for a rat faced crap bag in prison, only for the rat faced crap bag to dump the lady from prison via his attorney is funny and the most man bites dog story of 2020 you're just being an insufferable hater. That's an amazing story regardless of the profession of the protagonist.

There's some irony in an attorney starting this thread and constantly misapplying stories that go in it.

It’s a routine story with respect to prisoners. This time the woman was a journalist.

Now on CNN’s home page:

Quote
Opinion: What the obsession with Martin Shkreli and Christie Smythe says about us
Opinion by Jill Filipovic
Updated 9:23 AM ET, Wed December 23, 2020
Jill Filipovic is a journalist based in New York

As soon as the piece hit, the internet went nuts.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/22/opinions/christie-smythe-martin-shkreli-elle-filipovic/index.html

You hadn’t heard of it until this thread. 7 and I heard of it because it’s bizarrely in news feeds (normally filled with news articles written by journalists), not as/for the “news” itself but as holier-than-thou screeds about the alleged journalism ethics breaches of the woman. Did “the internet” go nuts, or was it again simply that:

Journalists favorite thing to write and post about is journalists so it makes sense

and thus that’s the disproportionate content we got? And journalists in turn think/thought that their obsession with journalism is one everyone shares?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on December 24, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
Finally saw the story, if you don't think a woman leaving her husband for a rat faced crap bag in prison, only for the rat faced crap bag to dump the lady from prison via his attorney is funny and the most man bites dog story of 2020 you're just being an insufferable hater. That's an amazing story regardless of the profession of the protagonist.

There's some irony in an attorney starting this thread and constantly misapplying stories that go in it.

It’s a routine story with respect to prisoners. This time the woman was a journalist.


lol, stop, jfc. Yes, I'm certain a well to do woman leaves her comfortable life only to fall in love with a prisoner only to have him dump her using a lawyer, yeah crap happens every day :ROFL: gtfo dude

Yes, people date prisoners all the time, no crap, that's not the newsworthy part and you know it.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on December 24, 2020, 01:43:12 PM
Finally saw the story, if you don't think a woman leaving her husband for a rat faced crap bag in prison, only for the rat faced crap bag to dump the lady from prison via his attorney is funny and the most man bites dog story of 2020 you're just being an insufferable hater. That's an amazing story regardless of the profession of the protagonist.

There's some irony in an attorney starting this thread and constantly misapplying stories that go in it.

It’s a routine story with respect to prisoners. This time the woman was a journalist.


lol, stop, jfc. Yes, I'm certain a well to do woman leaves her comfortable life only to fall in love with a prisoner only to have him dump her using a lawyer, yeah crap happens every day :ROFL: gtfo dude

Yes, people date prisoners all the time, no crap, that's not the newsworthy part and you know it.

OK, you're interested in the actual story.  There will probably be a lifetime movie about it, assuming there aren't already too many with the exact same plot that doing a based-on-real-life-event version would be pointless.  The story isn't what brought it into this thread - it's everything you didn't quote from my post.

If instead one of the guy's accountants had fallen for him and left her husband for him and got subsequently lol dismissed by him via counsel, it would be a big deal among accountants.  goACCOUNTING.com would be ablaze.  But none of us would know because accountants' internal industry talk doesn't - because they're not already plugged in for their words to be mass-produced due to their job responsibilities - get distributed to the rest of us as news or matters of public interest or even interesting gossip.

It's undeniable that journalists have more interest in stories that involve journalists or their industry than an identical story that has no journalism tie-in.  It's natural to want to feel that one's own field and the work they do is more important than others, and that one in turn carries a higher value.  And it's OK for everyone to be cognizant of that.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: MakeItRain on December 24, 2020, 04:34:28 PM
Journalists inevitably have to write stories about other journalists, the relevance of which, is in the eye of the beholder, just like every other story covered by every single person who has written or spoken words in the history of the world. There is some irony in the insistence that every article written by a journalist is only written because the subject is a journalist.

You tried to emphasize your point by linking a think piece about this rat faced shitbag story as if you couldn't find a think piece about every subject ever. There were think pieces written about K-State fans twitter reaction to a football coach being hired. The existence of a think piece about this is proof of nothing other than its the internet age and there are tens of thousands of journalism majors who graduate every year.

The story was funny, you misapplied it to this thread, it's okay we all miss sometimes
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (spinoff from The riot thread)
Post by: Trim on December 24, 2020, 04:51:49 PM
I've put a disclaimer in the thread title to avoid any more confusion.  The original title was insincere from day one.

media navel gazing

I'm keeping my thread title, but yes, that's what this thread is for.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: steve dave on December 24, 2020, 09:04:04 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/4rkl0q.jpg)

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: MakeItRain on December 25, 2020, 11:55:34 AM
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: MakeItRain on December 25, 2020, 11:57:25 AM
The replies are amazing
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: michigancat on December 25, 2020, 12:13:54 PM
The replies are amazing
Yes!

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: Trim on December 25, 2020, 05:26:45 PM




Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: 8manpick on January 06, 2021, 04:30:44 PM
?s=21
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: Woogy on January 06, 2021, 05:08:53 PM
Every?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 06, 2021, 05:51:47 PM
Every?

I mean there's no way OAN or newsmax are out there, so yea, every.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 06, 2021, 07:02:56 PM
I'm sure some of the images are coming directly from the magas.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: Trim on January 06, 2021, 07:50:19 PM


Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 06, 2021, 08:33:23 PM
I'm sure some of the images are coming directly from the magas.

Not journos though. Did you not see the video of the thugs in the Capitol asking people with cameras who they are with?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: Trim on January 07, 2021, 12:48:42 AM
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 07, 2021, 01:14:03 AM
So one of the 15 people arrested was a reporter from the local newspaper, wearing a credential? lol, bang up crap, 12.
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: Trim on January 12, 2021, 11:55:20 AM
Should social media professionals' self-declared triumphs (even if those triumphs are simply a reflection of people's long-existing interest in the subject matter) be included in this thread or one of its own?
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: Trim on January 12, 2021, 12:12:42 PM
Example:

Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: dal9 on January 14, 2021, 01:13:05 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ers9j7VXcAErpfu?format=png&name=medium)
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: dal9 on January 14, 2021, 01:13:55 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiG2wX3VEAAQDP-?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: star seed 7 on January 14, 2021, 01:20:29 PM
Lmao
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 14, 2021, 01:43:16 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ers9j7VXcAErpfu?format=png&name=medium)

This is amazing :lol:
Title: Re: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: Spracne on January 14, 2021, 01:43:48 PM
Classic mix-up re: the imam.
Title: Journalist persecution/heroism (lol, thread is re: journalist self-importance)
Post by: catastrophe on January 14, 2021, 01:46:45 PM
That explains the dearth of theological insight I’ve seen since following Pimpin4Paradise786