At anytime did Ron Prince ever make fans do a pledge?

[Dugout DickStone]

Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) = thinking that ku's Garbage second team could beat a conf opponent.

[kstatefreak42]

KU football this year............ x's 100

[Andy]

the biggest difference that i can see so far is prince brought in FreEMAW and was inheriting a fairly experienced team while Gill is starting with a bare cupboard and no big recruits.   at this point it is pretty rediculous to completely throw Gill under the bus, but outside of putting together a decent coaching staff (which prince also did his first season) i don't see a whole lot to be optimistic about just yet, at least not compared to any optimism felt in prince's first yr.

Gill isn't starting with a bare cupboard.  Mangino brought in some pretty good recruiting classes in his last couple years, with guys like McDougald, Opurum, Kande, etc.  KU returns most of its defense and its starting offensive line from last season.  If Kale Pick can add another dimension to the offense with his ability to scramble, I could see KU being pretty decent next season (anywhere from 6-6 to 8-4).  Keep in mind also that the schedule gets much easier next year with KU going back to the South rotation of Baylor, Oklahoma State, and Texas A&M.

their offensive line and defense were both terrible last season, but if you want to lean on that, thats fine.  prince in his first season inherited a starting QB Meier, RB Clayton, a couple of all big 12ers in WR Figures and LB Archer, and some solid senior role players in DT Echols and LB Diles and DB K. Williams.  It obviously showed since even prince was able to get them to a bowl.  Gill returns nothing except hope that some mediocre/bad players improve, plus a better schedule (though the non-con is one of ku's toughest in years.)  I see 4 or 5 wins at most.

[Dugout DickStone]

the biggest difference that i can see so far is prince brought in FreEMAW and was inheriting a fairly experienced team while Gill is starting with a bare cupboard and no big recruits.   at this point it is pretty rediculous to completely throw Gill under the bus, but outside of putting together a decent coaching staff (which prince also did his first season) i don't see a whole lot to be optimistic about just yet, at least not compared to any optimism felt in prince's first yr.

Gill isn't starting with a bare cupboard.  Mangino brought in some pretty good recruiting classes in his last couple years, with guys like McDougald, Opurum, Kande, etc.  KU returns most of its defense and its starting offensive line from last season.  If Kale Pick can add another dimension to the offense with his ability to scramble, I could see KU being pretty decent next season (anywhere from 6-6 to 8-4).  Keep in mind also that the schedule gets much easier next year with KU going back to the South rotation of Baylor, Oklahoma State, and Texas A&M.

their offensive line and defense were both terrible last season, but if you want to lean on that, thats fine.  prince in his first season inherited a starting QB Meier, RB Clayton, a couple of all big 12ers in WR Figures and LB Archer, and some solid senior role players in DT Echols and LB Diles and DB K. Williams.  It obviously showed since even prince was able to get them to a bowl.  Gill returns nothing except hope that some mediocre/bad players improve, plus a better schedule (though the non-con is one of ku's toughest in years.)  I see 4 or 5 wins at most.

Kale Pick would not beat out Carson, of CK, or Harper.  And that is big trouble in a conf that even bad teams routinely put up 28pts.

[OregonSmock]

Beems talent evaluation also led him to believe last year's ku second team could beat KSU.

Lols at Ben evaluating football talent.  The cupboard is bare in Lawrence.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/stewart_mandel/01/19/coaching.reportcard/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin


Kansas (Turner Gill, Buffalo head coach): A

The former Nebraska star returns to the Big 12, where he will now go head-to-head with the Huskers. What Gill pulled off at Buffalo -- taking over the worst program in Division I-A, bar none, and leading it to a MAC title three years later -- is one of the most remarkable accomplishments of the past decade. And his ties to the Heartland should help elevate Kansas' recruiting profile.


------------



The cupboard is not bare, hater.  Think whatever you want, though.  No one is stopping you from looking like a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

A MAC TITLE!!! OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Notre Dame's new head coach started in the MAC.  So did Urban Meyer.  Keep trying to diminish what Gill did at Buffalo, though.  I've come to expect nothing less from powerespect nation.

Many good coaches have come from being assistants in the ACC too, but Ron Prince still sucked...

Gill has SEC/Big 12 assistants as his defensive/offensive coordinators.  He also has guys like Reggie Mitchell and Darrell Wyatt who can recruit with the best of them.  I really see no similarities at all between Gill and his coaching staff compared to Prince's.

[_33]

Still relieved they didn't hire Tuberville. 

[raquetcat]

I got some inside  info that Kale Pick cussed during practice and got in some big time trouble, prolly won't start the first couple of games 

[kstatefreak42]

History is still waiting turner.

[WillieWatanabe]

Pretty sure Prince had good assistants once upon a time...he just chased them away.

[JD Thundercat]

Pretty sure Prince had good assistants once upon a time...he just chased them away.

Come on now, that can't be true, we all know fired college coaches are better than NFL head coaches any day of the week.

[OregonSmock]

Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) = thinking that ku's Garbage second team could beat a conf opponent.

A lot of that "garbage" second team consisted of guys like Bradley McDougald, Jamal Greene, Prinz Kande, Quinton Woods, Huldon Tharp (who started by the end of the season and was first team freshman all american), Kale Pick, Lubbock Smith, etc.  These are guys that will be contributing a lot next year, and who made big strides toward the end of last season.  Mangino also had a bunch of guys in the doghouse, like Steven Johnson and Anthony Davis, for example, who would have been big time contributors last year if given a chance.  

Also keep in mind that I was basing my prediction on a K-State team that lost, 52-21, in Lawrence the year before.  Let's not forget that K-State started Carson Coffman at the beginning of the year and lost to Louisiana-Lafayette.  I give Snyder all the credit in the world for playing small ball and squeezing every ounce of talent out of that team last year.  I still believe that KU had more talent than K-State last year, with guys like Stuckey, Briscoe, Meier, and Reesing, but for whatever reason, that team quit halfway through the season.  KU was a couple plays away last year from beating Mizzou at Arrowhead and Colorado in Boulder, but the coaching (and the refusal to utilize a power running game) ultimately cost KU a solid 7-5/8-4 type of season.  Hell, KU was up on Texas Tech, 21-14, at the end of the 3rd quarter (in Lubbock).  KU also gave Nebraska all they could handle.  

I know you're really proud that K-State was able to squeak out a boring 17-10 win in Manhattan last year, but honestly, that game was a total fluke.  KU missed two or three field goals and had some really uncharacteristic turnovers in that game by way of the fumble.  K-State limited the possessions and basically snuck out with a flukey win, in a game that seemed like it only lasted for about three quarters.  Regardless, I'll take a recent BCS Bowl victory and three out of the last four wins over one bowl in six years any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Dugout DickStone]

Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) = thinking that ku's Garbage second team could beat a conf opponent.

A lot of that "garbage" second teams consists of guys like Bradley McDougald, Jamal Greene, Prinz Kande, Quinton Woods, Huldon Tharp (who started by the end of the season and was first team freshman all american), Kale Pick, Lubbock Smith, etc.  These are guys that will be contributing a lot next year, and who made big strides toward the end of last season.  Mangino also had a bunch of guys in the doghouse, like Steven Johnson and Anthony Davis, for example, who would have been big time contributors last year if given a chance. 

Also keep in mind that I was basing my prediction on a K-State team that lost 52-21 in Lawrence the year before.  We're also talking about a K-State team that started Carson Coffman at the beginning of the year and lost to Louisiana-Lafayette.  Give Snyder credit for playing small ball and squeezing every ounce of talent out of that team last year.  Like it or not, KU had more talent than K-State last season, they just didn't have LHC Bill Snyder coaching them over there on the sidelines.

Anyone who watched the game knows that isn't true.

Losers make excuses while winners go nail the prom queen.  Which are you?

[kstatefreak42]

All that "talent" showed n tht 17-10 loss eh?

[Dugout DickStone]

PS.  In 52-21, Prince had a lot of would-be contributors in the doghouse who would have made a difference.

We just didn't have Mangino coaching.  Would have won easily if we had. 

[OregonSmock]

PS.  In 52-21, Prince had a lot of would-be contributors in the doghouse who would have made a difference.

We just didn't have Mangino coaching.  Would have won easily if we had. 

Yeah, K-State would have easily made up those 31 points if Carson Coffman was starting in place of Josh Freeman.

[WavetheWheat]

2 things I'd like to clear up here....

1)  KU fans, administration, media, marketing department (myself included) got incredibly cocky after the Y.O.D.  There really isn't any arguing it.  We did say some stupid things, we put a 80 ft tall banner of our current QB on outside of our stadium, tried to launch a stadium expansion (after 1 year...1 year...of sellouts) and launched the now incredibly ironic "history awaits" campaign.   I don't blame myself, as a matter of fact I am glad we exploited the YOD as it was incredible for us and I loved every minute of it.  Including going to a freaking Orange Bowl, staying in South Beach, and WINNING.  I loved the YOD.  I hope someday in my lifetime we have another YOD.  So for those making fun of us celebrating our YOD.....screw you....it was a magical year.

2) Turner Gill was an incredible reach and an incredible gamble hire.  I am not sure how anybody can debate it.  His resume is weak and unimpressive.  He does seem like a guy that can motivate and the players seem to "like him"  We will see which way works better.  I have always been under the belief system that football coaches are not your "friend" and with that many kids in one team, it goes from being a "friend" to walking all over somebody very quickly.  I think Turner's pledge is hokey.  I think his chants and acronyms are sophomoric and will not work long  term.   He does have some good assistants who have shown the ability to recruit at other places.  We will see if that translates to Lawrence.  I will tell you what I have told everybody.  I hope this experiment works.  My confidence level on it, however, is somewhere around 2 out of 10.   There are too many red flags already. 

[pc5k]

2 things I'd like to clear up here....

1)  KU fans, administration, media, marketing department (myself included) got incredibly cocky after the Y.O.D.  There really isn't any arguing it.  We did say some stupid things, we put a 80 ft tall banner of our current QB on outside of our stadium, tried to launch a stadium expansion (after 1 year...1 year...of sellouts) and launched the now incredibly ironic "history awaits" campaign.   I don't blame myself, as a matter of fact I am glad we exploited the YOD as it was incredible for us and I loved every minute of it.  Including going to a freaking Orange Bowl, staying in South Beach, and WINNING.  I loved the YOD.  I hope someday in my lifetime we have another YOD.  So for those making fun of us celebrating our YOD.....screw you....it was a magical year.

2) Turner Gill was an incredible reach and an incredible gamble hire.  I am not sure how anybody can debate it.  His resume is weak and unimpressive.  He does seem like a guy that can motivate and the players seem to "like him"  We will see which way works better.  I have always been under the belief system that football coaches are not your "friend" and with that many kids in one team, it goes from being a "friend" to walking all over somebody very quickly.  I think Turner's pledge is hokey.  I think his chants and acronyms are sophomoric and will not work long  term.   He does have some good assistants who have shown the ability to recruit at other places.  We will see if that translates to Lawrence.  I will tell you what I have told everybody.  I hope this experiment works.  My confidence level on it, however, is somewhere around 2 out of 10.   There are too many red flags already. 

Good post, thanks for being realistic- unlike BMWJ

[Dugout DickStone]

You actually had to edit that post to include MORE limp dick excuses?

Just relax.  So ksu football is back out in front of ku again, it can turn around at some point...maybe.

[kstatefreak42]

great post

[OregonSmock]

2 things I'd like to clear up here....

1)  KU fans, administration, media, marketing department (myself included) got incredibly cocky after the Y.O.D.  There really isn't any arguing it.  We did say some stupid things, we put a 80 ft tall banner of our current QB on outside of our stadium, tried to launch a stadium expansion (after 1 year...1 year...of sellouts) and launched the now incredibly ironic "history awaits" campaign.   I don't blame myself, as a matter of fact I am glad we exploited the YOD as it was incredible for us and I loved every minute of it.  Including going to a freaking Orange Bowl, staying in South Beach, and WINNING.  I loved the YOD.  I hope someday in my lifetime we have another YOD.  So for those making fun of us celebrating our YOD.....screw you....it was a magical year.

2) Turner Gill was an incredible reach and an incredible gamble hire.  I am not sure how anybody can debate it.  His resume is weak and unimpressive.  He does seem like a guy that can motivate and the players seem to "like him"  We will see which way works better.  I have always been under the belief system that football coaches are not your "friend" and with that many kids in one team, it goes from being a "friend" to walking all over somebody very quickly.  I think Turner's pledge is hokey.  I think his chants and acronyms are sophomoric and will not work long  term.   He does have some good assistants who have shown the ability to recruit at other places.  We will see if that translates to Lawrence.  I will tell you what I have told everybody.  I hope this experiment works.  My confidence level on it, however, is somewhere around 2 out of 10.   There are too many red flags already. 

Good post, Wave.  The thing that gives me confidence about Gill is the fact that he brought in a coaching staff that has experience at the BCS level, and a coaching staff that has proven it can recruit top talent.  I agree that the pledges and stuff are pretty cheesy, and it's not really my style, but there were plenty of things I didn't like about Mangino as well.  Let's just give this guy a chance first before we compare him to the joke of a coach that was Ron Prince. 

[Pete]

2 things I'd like to clear up here....

1)  KU fans, administration, media, marketing department (myself included) got incredibly cocky after the Y.O.D.  There really isn't any arguing it.  We did say some stupid things, we put a 80 ft tall banner of our current QB on outside of our stadium, tried to launch a stadium expansion (after 1 year...1 year...of sellouts) and launched the now incredibly ironic "history awaits" campaign.   I don't blame myself, as a matter of fact I am glad we exploited the YOD as it was incredible for us and I loved every minute of it.  Including going to a freaking Orange Bowl, staying in South Beach, and WINNING.  I loved the YOD.  I hope someday in my lifetime we have another YOD.  So for those making fun of us celebrating our YOD.....screw you....it was a magical year.

2) Turner Gill was an incredible reach and an incredible gamble hire.  I am not sure how anybody can debate it.  His resume is weak and unimpressive.  He does seem like a guy that can motivate and the players seem to "like him"  We will see which way works better.  I have always been under the belief system that football coaches are not your "friend" and with that many kids in one team, it goes from being a "friend" to walking all over somebody very quickly.  I think Turner's pledge is hokey.  I think his chants and acronyms are sophomoric and will not work long  term.   He does have some good assistants who have shown the ability to recruit at other places.  We will see if that translates to Lawrence.  I will tell you what I have told everybody.  I hope this experiment works.  My confidence level on it, however, is somewhere around 2 out of 10.   There are too many red flags already. 

Good post, Wave.  The thing that gives me confidence about Gill is the fact that he brought in a coaching staff that has experience at the BCS level, and a coaching staff that has proven it can recruit top talent.  I agree that the pledges and stuff are pretty cheesy, and it's not really my style, but there were plenty of things I didn't like about Mangino as well.  Let's just give this guy a chance first before we compare him to the joke of a coach that was Ron Prince. 

Agreed.  With Wave and Beams.

Anyone who doesn't believe that Snyder would have hired Chuck Long if he could have got him is dumb.

[ChiComCat]

I'll take a recent BCS Bowl victory and three out of the last four wins over one bowl in six years any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'll take 14 of the last 17 (kinda guessing on that) over 3 of 4.  I would also take a conference championship over a BCS win (provided its not the title game) and no conf championship appearances.  So I guess we're both happy with what we got.

[OregonSmock]

I'll take a recent BCS Bowl victory and three out of the last four wins over one bowl in six years any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'll take 14 of the last 17 (kinda guessing on that) over 3 of 4.  I would also take a conference championship over a BCS win (provided its not the title game) and no conf championship appearances.  So I guess we're both happy with what we got.

Yeah, you guessed wrong.  KU won in '04, '06, '07, and '08.  KU also leads the all-time series 65-37. 

[steve dave]

I'll take a recent BCS Bowl victory and three out of the last four wins over one bowl in six years any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'll take 14 of the last 17 (kinda guessing on that) over 3 of 4.  I would also take a conference championship over a BCS win (provided its not the title game) and no conf championship appearances.  So I guess we're both happy with what we got.

Yeah, you guessed wrong.  KU won in '04, '06, '07, and '08.  KU also leads the all-time series 65-37. 

So 13 of 17?  Not bad

[OregonSmock]

I'll take a recent BCS Bowl victory and three out of the last four wins over one bowl in six years any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'll take 14 of the last 17 (kinda guessing on that) over 3 of 4.  I would also take a conference championship over a BCS win (provided its not the title game) and no conf championship appearances.  So I guess we're both happy with what we got.

Yeah, you guessed wrong.  KU won in '04, '06, '07, and '08.  KU also leads the all-time series 65-37. 

So 13 of 17?  Not bad

Why stop at 17?  How about 37 of 102?  Or maybe we could just shorten it to 2 out of 6?