Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 4066879 times)

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Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25250 on: December 11, 2013, 10:48:24 AM »
I don't really like the idea of separating from non BCS schools when I look at it from afar, but for K-State, it would be better. No current BCS school would get left out of "the separation", some other non BCS could possibly sneak in, but once in, forever in. Currently, the Big 12 could possibly disappear and we'd probably be forever in the "have not" conferences.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25251 on: December 11, 2013, 11:02:52 AM »
It's not going to work because all of these conferences get a ton of money from the basketball tournament. The non BCS conferences isn't going to let the Big 10 keep all of the money from a separate football division and then get their cut of the NCAA Tournament money. No network is going to pay billions of dollars for a tournament involving 16, 24, or 32 teams from 5 or 6 conferences.

Jim Delaney can dilute his conference to 16 teams for a short term money grab, the rest of the commissioners can see past the next 15 minutes and won't allow him to ruin it for everyone else. There is so much money in college athletics right now that schools like Kansas State and Iowa State spending tens of millions of dollars on stadium renovations and expansions. So the clear answer to schools raking in cash like Scrooge McDuck is to completely change how we are doing things to a system that could be a complete bust, makes sense.   

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25252 on: December 11, 2013, 11:13:12 AM »
It's not going to work because all of these conferences get a ton of money from the basketball tournament. The non BCS conferences isn't going to let the Big 10 keep all of the money from a separate football division and then get their cut of the NCAA Tournament money. No network is going to pay billions of dollars for a tournament involving 16, 24, or 32 teams from 5 or 6 conferences.

Jim Delaney can dilute his conference to 16 teams for a short term money grab, the rest of the commissioners can see past the next 15 minutes and won't allow him to ruin it for everyone else. There is so much money in college athletics right now that schools like Kansas State and Iowa State spending tens of millions of dollars on stadium renovations and expansions. So the clear answer to schools raking in cash like Scrooge McDuck is to completely change how we are doing things to a system that could be a complete bust, makes sense.
Like I said, I don't want it to happen necessarily, but the little schools are going to do whatever they are told to do. If the BCS wants an exclusive football system, but an all inclusive bball tournament, the little schools will nod their head and follow along. They would fight it in court, but would most likely ultimately lose.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25253 on: December 11, 2013, 11:16:32 AM »
No network is going to pay billions of dollars for a tournament involving 16, 24, or 32 teams from 5 or 6 conferences.


disagree

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25254 on: December 11, 2013, 11:16:52 PM »
Quote
Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne on playoff committee: "Obviously there's going to be controversy but somebody's got to do it."

Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne is saying things that should mortify you. Talked about leaning on Pat Dye for info on Auburn for instance.

Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne talking about "injury factors" and momentum factoring into committee selections. Yeah this will be controversial.


Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne: If you go to an 8-team playoff it will diminish the bowls. (Of course, that ignores all the new bowls being created next year)

@dennisdoddcbs: "It will be a success if we don't get lynched." Osborne on playoff

I'm now looking forward to the playoff a lot less due to that ass clown.

In the world of the ACC:

Quote
Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Duke AD Kevin White says he's "bullish" on prospects for an ACC Network

Quote
Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Oliver Luck says it will be interesting to see who's better off in long run with regard to playoff: 10-team Big 12 or 15-team ACC

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25255 on: December 11, 2013, 11:54:21 PM »
No network is going to pay billions of dollars for a tournament involving 16, 24, or 32 teams from 5 or 6 conferences.


disagree

Its a simple matter of number of games, available hours of available advertising, etc. I don't think the actual value of the tournament is the same to the casual fan without the underdog factor either, ratings of the second weekend and final four bears this out, but that can be argued and I'd rather stick to the black and white reasoning as to why the march madness contract would fetch less money with 1/3 of the teams.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25256 on: December 12, 2013, 12:02:17 AM »
It's not going to work because all of these conferences get a ton of money from the basketball tournament. The non BCS conferences isn't going to let the Big 10 keep all of the money from a separate football division and then get their cut of the NCAA Tournament money. No network is going to pay billions of dollars for a tournament involving 16, 24, or 32 teams from 5 or 6 conferences.

Jim Delaney can dilute his conference to 16 teams for a short term money grab, the rest of the commissioners can see past the next 15 minutes and won't allow him to ruin it for everyone else. There is so much money in college athletics right now that schools like Kansas State and Iowa State spending tens of millions of dollars on stadium renovations and expansions. So the clear answer to schools raking in cash like Scrooge McDuck is to completely change how we are doing things to a system that could be a complete bust, makes sense.
Like I said, I don't want it to happen necessarily, but the little schools are going to do whatever they are told to do. If the BCS wants an exclusive football system, but an all inclusive bball tournament, the little schools will nod their head and follow along. They would fight it in court, but would most likely ultimately lose.

They wouldn't need to fight anything in court, the BCS conference representation is a solid minority when it comes to NCAA membership and committee representation. Not only that but the BCS schools are far from united on wanting to break away. Jim Delaney is the only person I hear talking about this, the others recognize the risk in trying something like this and view it as an unnecessary risk given that everyone is making so much more money than ever before. The risk is far greater for the ACC, Pac 12, & Big 12.

It won't happen and I wish Delaney would shut the hell up about this self-serving talking point.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25257 on: December 12, 2013, 12:04:58 AM »
It's not going to work because all of these conferences get a ton of money from the basketball tournament. The non BCS conferences isn't going to let the Big 10 keep all of the money from a separate football division and then get their cut of the NCAA Tournament money. No network is going to pay billions of dollars for a tournament involving 16, 24, or 32 teams from 5 or 6 conferences.

Jim Delaney can dilute his conference to 16 teams for a short term money grab, the rest of the commissioners can see past the next 15 minutes and won't allow him to ruin it for everyone else. There is so much money in college athletics right now that schools like Kansas State and Iowa State spending tens of millions of dollars on stadium renovations and expansions. So the clear answer to schools raking in cash like Scrooge McDuck is to completely change how we are doing things to a system that could be a complete bust, makes sense.
Like I said, I don't want it to happen necessarily, but the little schools are going to do whatever they are told to do. If the BCS wants an exclusive football system, but an all inclusive bball tournament, the little schools will nod their head and follow along. They would fight it in court, but would most likely ultimately lose.

They wouldn't need to fight anything in court, the BCS conference representation is a solid minority when it comes to NCAA membership and committee representation. Not only that but the BCS schools are far from united on wanting to break away. Jim Delaney is the only person I hear talking about this, the others recognize the risk in trying something like this and view it as an unnecessary risk given that everyone is making so much more money than ever before. The risk is far greater for the ACC, Pac 12, & Big 12.

It won't happen and I wish Delaney would shut the hell up about this self-serving talking point.

Considering that he's the most destructive force in college athletics due to his self-serving egomania, that may be difficult for him to do.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25258 on: December 12, 2013, 05:53:44 AM »
It's not going to work because all of these conferences get a ton of money from the basketball tournament. The non BCS conferences isn't going to let the Big 10 keep all of the money from a separate football division and then get their cut of the NCAA Tournament money. No network is going to pay billions of dollars for a tournament involving 16, 24, or 32 teams from 5 or 6 conferences.

Jim Delaney can dilute his conference to 16 teams for a short term money grab, the rest of the commissioners can see past the next 15 minutes and won't allow him to ruin it for everyone else. There is so much money in college athletics right now that schools like Kansas State and Iowa State spending tens of millions of dollars on stadium renovations and expansions. So the clear answer to schools raking in cash like Scrooge McDuck is to completely change how we are doing things to a system that could be a complete bust, makes sense.
Like I said, I don't want it to happen necessarily, but the little schools are going to do whatever they are told to do. If the BCS wants an exclusive football system, but an all inclusive bball tournament, the little schools will nod their head and follow along. They would fight it in court, but would most likely ultimately lose.

They wouldn't need to fight anything in court, the BCS conference representation is a solid minority when it comes to NCAA membership and committee representation. Not only that but the BCS schools are far from united on wanting to break away. Jim Delaney is the only person I hear talking about this, the others recognize the risk in trying something like this and view it as an unnecessary risk given that everyone is making so much more money than ever before. The risk is far greater for the ACC, Pac 12, & Big 12.

It won't happen and I wish Delaney would shut the hell up about this self-serving talking point.
I haven't predicted  it will happen,  but if all bcs  conferences want it to it will.  lol  at saying ncaa  anything.  The big conferences could drop out  of the ncaa  and tell everyone to eff off and that would be that.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25259 on: December 12, 2013, 07:48:10 AM »
Quote
Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne on playoff committee: "Obviously there's going to be controversy but somebody's got to do it."

Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne is saying things that should mortify you. Talked about leaning on Pat Dye for info on Auburn for instance.


Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne talking about "injury factors" and momentum factoring into committee selections. Yeah this will be controversial.


Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne: If you go to an 8-team playoff it will diminish the bowls. (Of course, that ignores all the new bowls being created next year)

@dennisdoddcbs: "It will be a success if we don't get lynched." Osborne on playoff

I'm now looking forward to the playoff a lot less due to that ass clown.

what in the world?  who would he ask info on Alabama from? Bear Bryant?

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25260 on: December 12, 2013, 10:59:27 AM »
Quote
Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne on playoff committee: "Obviously there's going to be controversy but somebody's got to do it."

Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne is saying things that should mortify you. Talked about leaning on Pat Dye for info on Auburn for instance.


Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne talking about "injury factors" and momentum factoring into committee selections. Yeah this will be controversial.


Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne: If you go to an 8-team playoff it will diminish the bowls. (Of course, that ignores all the new bowls being created next year)

@dennisdoddcbs: "It will be a success if we don't get lynched." Osborne on playoff

I'm now looking forward to the playoff a lot less due to that ass clown.

what in the world?  who would he ask info on Alabama from? Bear Bryant?

Osborne speaks a long dead language that only people over 72 can hear and understand.

Offline MadCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25261 on: December 12, 2013, 11:03:05 AM »
Quote
Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne on playoff committee: "Obviously there's going to be controversy but somebody's got to do it."

Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne is saying things that should mortify you. Talked about leaning on Pat Dye for info on Auburn for instance.


Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne talking about "injury factors" and momentum factoring into committee selections. Yeah this will be controversial.


Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne: If you go to an 8-team playoff it will diminish the bowls. (Of course, that ignores all the new bowls being created next year)

@dennisdoddcbs: "It will be a success if we don't get lynched." Osborne on playoff

I'm now looking forward to the playoff a lot less due to that ass clown.

what in the world?  who would he ask info on Alabama from? Bear Bryant?

Osborne speaks a long dead language that only people over 72 can hear and understand.
Nazgûl

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25262 on: December 12, 2013, 11:10:04 AM »
Quote
Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne on playoff committee: "Obviously there's going to be controversy but somebody's got to do it."

Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Tom Osborne is saying things that should mortify you. Talked about leaning on Pat Dye for info on Auburn for instance.


Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne talking about "injury factors" and momentum factoring into committee selections. Yeah this will be controversial.


Dan Wolken @DanWolken
Osborne: If you go to an 8-team playoff it will diminish the bowls. (Of course, that ignores all the new bowls being created next year)

@dennisdoddcbs: "It will be a success if we don't get lynched." Osborne on playoff

I'm now looking forward to the playoff a lot less due to that ass clown.

what in the world?  who would he ask info on Alabama from? Bear Bryant?

Osborne speaks a long dead language that only people over 72 can hear and understand.
They will find ways to eff up this playoff thing.  The Big Schools will be well represented.
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline Skipper44

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25263 on: December 12, 2013, 11:39:18 AM »
It's not going to work because all of these conferences get a ton of money from the basketball tournament. The non BCS conferences isn't going to let the Big 10 keep all of the money from a separate football division and then get their cut of the NCAA Tournament money. No network is going to pay billions of dollars for a tournament involving 16, 24, or 32 teams from 5 or 6 conferences.

Jim Delaney can dilute his conference to 16 teams for a short term money grab, the rest of the commissioners can see past the next 15 minutes and won't allow him to ruin it for everyone else. There is so much money in college athletics right now that schools like Kansas State and Iowa State spending tens of millions of dollars on stadium renovations and expansions. So the clear answer to schools raking in cash like Scrooge McDuck is to completely change how we are doing things to a system that could be a complete bust, makes sense.
Like I said, I don't want it to happen necessarily, but the little schools are going to do whatever they are told to do. If the BCS wants an exclusive football system, but an all inclusive bball tournament, the little schools will nod their head and follow along. They would fight it in court, but would most likely ultimately lose.

They wouldn't need to fight anything in court, the BCS conference representation is a solid minority when it comes to NCAA membership and committee representation. Not only that but the BCS schools are far from united on wanting to break away. Jim Delaney is the only person I hear talking about this, the others recognize the risk in trying something like this and view it as an unnecessary risk given that everyone is making so much more money than ever before. The risk is far greater for the ACC, Pac 12, & Big 12.

It won't happen and I wish Delaney would shut the hell up about this self-serving talking point.
I haven't predicted  it will happen,  but if all bcs  conferences want it to it will.  lol  at saying ncaa  anything.  The big conferences could drop out  of the ncaa  and tell everyone to eff off and that would be that.
the whole tax deduct-ability of donations issue will be what holds the NCAA together imo.  There are multiple state senators, mainly in the west, that would love nothing more then to pull that rug out from under the BCS schools if they eff over schools like Boise State and New Mexico.

I will admit, the chicken little in me does say a break away would be best for KSU.

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25264 on: December 12, 2013, 11:58:34 AM »
I say break away, give up the not for profit, get rid of title 9, drop almost all women's sports and non revenue men's sports, profit.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25265 on: December 12, 2013, 12:03:04 PM »
Yes there are a litany of things that make just walking away from the NCAA difficult including tax exemption, non profit, and potential title IX issues. Even if you don't understand that it is the membership that runs the organization, which most including some participating in this conversation don't get, there are other things you can point to that makes disbanding the NCAA problematic. The NCAA isn't some outside agency that the schools don't see eye to eye with, these guys are the ones making the decisions. Fans think these presidents and ADs care about the same stuff that they do.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25266 on: December 12, 2013, 12:21:22 PM »
Yes there are a litany of things that make just walking away from the NCAA difficult including tax exemption, non profit, and potential title IX issues. Even if you don't understand that it is the membership that runs the organization, which most including some participating in this conversation don't get, there are other things you can point to that makes disbanding the NCAA problematic. The NCAA isn't some outside agency that the schools don't see eye to eye with, these guys are the ones making the decisions. Fans think these presidents and ADs care about the same stuff that they do.

No one is going to break away from the NCAA and form a new organization.  I'm not sure why that's still a topic of discussion for some fans.

New NCAA division?  Maybe.  But it has to be set on criteria that schools elect to participate in rather than being relegated to a lower division.  That's too messy and will cause too many political issues by those left behind.

The two biggest issues that I've seen regarding breakaway are a cost of attendance stipend, which a ton of schools can find a way to fund.  The second, and much more difficult option is to require schools to fund a certain number (and type) of sports.

We may have linked this months ago, but John Infante had a really great article on it.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2013/07/24/what-sports-would-division-x-sponsor.htm

Quote
The most glaring observation from these numbers is that a full breakaway from the NCAA in all sports of just these 65 schools is untenable. The Pac-12 is very proud of its many and varied NCAA championship teams. Wrestling has a long and storied tradition in the Big 12. And the ACC and Big Ten have made significant investments in growing new revenue sports like men's lacrosse and ice hockey. It is hard to imagine them throwing all that away.

Going back to Bubba Cunningham's 24-sport minimum, we can also start to see which sports schools would add. Men's soccer, wrestling, women's lacrosse, and women's gymnastics would be priorities because the facilities likely already exist on every campus. If women's swimming was made a required core sport, add men's swimming to that list.

The loss of regional flavor and some of the sports facing extinction at the highest level are not givens though. Certainly a new, small division will have to have more nationwide sport offerings (or simply have smaller athletic departments). But if two of three conferences feel strongly about a sport, like say the Big 12 and SEC throwing their weight behind equestrian, it could be given a chance to then grow from there, like equestrian establishing a foothold in California or with ag schools in the Big Ten.

Infante goes further and says that if you add about 5 basketball-centric conferences along with the Power 5 conferences, you probably have enough for a robust division where you can pretty much have your cake and eat it, too.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2013/07/25/basketball-conferences-make-best-partners-for-power-5.htm

So, the thought would be that for each power 5 conference, you'd get a corresponding basketball conference to go with it:

Quote
There has been as much or more movement, raiding and re-raiding, below the FBS level that simply using revenue distribution numbers is too blunt an instrument. Basketball prowess will be the big driver though. Massaging it a bit for geography, we get this set of conferences:

-   Big East

-   Atlantic-10

-   Missouri Valley

-   West Coast Conference

-   Colonial

Not only are you getting most of the best basketball programs below the FBS level, but you also have rough geographic pairs:

-   Big Ten/Big East

-   ACC/A-10

-   Big 12/Valley

-   Pac-12/WCC

-   SEC/CAA

The most problematic is probably the CAA, which has been picked apart repeatedly by the A-10 over the last couple of years. It also does not stretch as far west as the SEC, and runs far into the Northeast. Of all the areas, this one looks most ripe for creating a new conference, say a Super SoCon, picking off the best basketball schools throughout the Southeast.

Now Division X is really getting somewhere. Without spreading football revenue any further, this plan would add many name-brand basketball programs, bring the sheer numbers up far enough to justify a 64-team tournament, and boost the sponsorship of some non-revenue sports. The lack of FBS football also means that these conferences might be in a better position to agree to some of the demands of the Power 5. It is easier to get behind a stipend or full cost-of-attendance scholarships when you are not starting with 85 football players. Not to mention this preserves some of the character of college sports, especially the allure of the Cinderella mid-major.

The obvious problem is what do you do with the American, Mountain West, MAC, etc.  Maybe you just add a couple of other corresponding basketball conferences (i.e. WCC, Big West, etc.).  I don't know.

Anyway, food for thought.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25267 on: December 12, 2013, 02:57:24 PM »
I say break away, give up the not for profit, get rid of title 9, drop almost all women's sports and non revenue men's sports, profit.

 :love:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Offline bshea85

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25270 on: December 21, 2013, 09:14:26 AM »
Wow, good article.  I would love to see men's wrestling at KSU.... no homo.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25271 on: December 21, 2013, 11:26:13 AM »
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/17/5216550/college-football-tv-ratings-2013-regular-season-final-sec

:users:

That article has a ton of logical fallacies.  I'm working on something for our site where I break it down further.

Our biggest problem is that FS1, in general, has less viewership than the MLB network.  It's going to take time to get traction.

Over half of the PAC 12 games on ESPN run unopposed in later time slots.  All of our games are opposed.

The ACC gets an abnormal amount of prime time games on ESPN, and their ratings are generally worse than those in other conferences at the same time.

Long story short, the article is not well thought out.

Offline ben ji

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25272 on: December 22, 2013, 09:34:31 AM »
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/17/5216550/college-football-tv-ratings-2013-regular-season-final-sec

:users:

That article has a ton of logical fallacies.  I'm working on something for our site where I break it down further.

Our biggest problem is that FS1, in general, has less viewership than the MLB network.  It's going to take time to get traction.

Over half of the PAC 12 games on ESPN run unopposed in later time slots.  All of our games are opposed.

The ACC gets an abnormal amount of prime time games on ESPN, and their ratings are generally worse than those in other conferences at the same time.

Long story short, the article is not well thought out.

 :Wha: :lynchmob: :excited: :driving: :ksu: :billdance: :Woohoo:

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25273 on: December 22, 2013, 10:49:45 AM »
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/17/5216550/college-football-tv-ratings-2013-regular-season-final-sec

:users:

That article has a ton of logical fallacies.  I'm working on something for our site where I break it down further.

Our biggest problem is that FS1, in general, has less viewership than the MLB network.  It's going to take time to get traction.

Over half of the PAC 12 games on ESPN run unopposed in later time slots.  All of our games are opposed.

The ACC gets an abnormal amount of prime time games on ESPN, and their ratings are generally worse than those in other conferences at the same time.

Long story short, the article is not well thought out.

I wonder how inflated Rice's numbers are from Manziel's first game of the season. 

Offline scottwildcat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25274 on: December 22, 2013, 10:52:00 AM »
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/17/5216550/college-football-tv-ratings-2013-regular-season-final-sec

:users:

That article has a ton of logical fallacies.  I'm working on something for our site where I break it down further.

Our biggest problem is that FS1, in general, has less viewership than the MLB network.  It's going to take time to get traction.

Over half of the PAC 12 games on ESPN run unopposed in later time slots.  All of our games are opposed.

The ACC gets an abnormal amount of prime time games on ESPN, and their ratings are generally worse than those in other conferences at the same time.

Long story short, the article is not well thought out.

I wonder how inflated Rice's numbers are from Manziel's first game of the season.
Probz pretty inflated.