Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 3980107 times)

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Offline deputy dawg

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35200 on: May 16, 2023, 11:32:28 AM »
I like how everyone seemingly just forgets about Colorado.

This.  It wasn't just that they poached Colorado from the conference, they timed it with the Big 10's poach of Nebraska.  Larry Scott was all smiles as he thought he kiled the Big 12, and eliminated competition for TV contracts.  Both schools departed 6-11-10.  Pac was big-time dicks, and the current situation with the Pac is karma.  SEC didn't do their poaching until over a year later when the took Moo and cult aggie.

Offline Trim

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35201 on: May 16, 2023, 12:27:17 PM »
Nothing in here about him being awarded any certificates at this thing.

https://twitter.com/CougfanCOM/status/1658521309574475776

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35202 on: May 16, 2023, 12:30:24 PM »
Being the big fish in the ACC worked out pretty great for FSU in the 90s, but maybe they'd have done this differently with the benefit of hindsight.

Quote
There’s been a long history of interest from the SEC in certain ACC powers as well. In fact, in 1990, when the league voted to expand, officials explored a variety of targets, seriously vetting Florida State before settling on South Carolina and Arkansas. Years later, then-coach Bobby Bowden and several athletic administrators involved in the process revealed that they turned down an invitation.

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1658092057586483201

Notably absent is the historical record of conference realignment, namely, the Pac's attempt to kill the Big 12.  Yeah, the Big 10 did that too, but the Pac is on the verge of extinction, which feels good given their gloating 10 years ago about putting the Big 12 out of business.  I don't see many poster talk about it, but Larry Scott's actions 10 years ago struck me as malicious, and the Pac may be getting its just due.

Larry Scott was unsuccessful and he's long gone. Washington State, Oregon State, Cal, and Stanford fans had nothing to do with that and they, don't deserve to be relegated to the group of 5 because of things they had nothing to do with.

Sidenote, I take like Ross Dellenger, a lot, but the first sentence of that tweet is rough ridin' stupid.
They don't deserve it, but neither do we, and we've been relegated already. We weren't dropped to G5 level, but the Big 12 won't ever be seen as a top tier football conference again.

Conference realignment overall sucks crap and is bad for the health of college sports. Imagine a 12 team playoff with auto bids to the champs of the original Big East, ACC, sec, big 10, big 12,and PAC with 6 at large selections. That would have been soooo rough ridin' fun.

The rough ridin' Catholic BB schools and ACC destroyed the Big East.  The ACC will get their just rewards.

rough ridin' Catholic faggots, amirite?

Hey wait, I was raised in a Catholic family.  As far as I know, there are no mommies(not that there is anything wrong with that) in my family.   :frown:
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35203 on: May 16, 2023, 01:11:11 PM »
The PAC 100% attempted to destroy the Big 12. That is indisputable.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/oklahoma-was-within-30-minutes-of-leaving-for-the-pac-10-in-2010/

So this is a semantics discussion. We all agree that the Pac 10 had discussions with OU and UT. We disagree about how many schools they were trying to poach, how close it was to happening, and whether it's tantamount to "attempting to destroy the Big 12." What I know for a stone cold fact is the source for that Dodd/Fornelli article is unsourced. The only person on record in any of these links is the president of Texas Tech and he said the UPs in the Pac 10 voted against expansion. The "fact" that OU was 30 minutes from leaving seems to be in direct odds with the Pac 10 presidents voting against expansion. We clearly aren't going to agree on this but we've been doing expansion rumors for 13 years. Taking an unsourced rumor from 13 years ago from something that never materialized, seems like confirmation bias, given the literally hundreds of unsourced rumors, that have been reported on, throughout the years that have been complete BS.

The second part of this is whether or not they aimed to destroy the Big 12. Let's assume they actually had a plan to take 6 Big 12 schools, and Larry Scott had the votes. How is that poaching/attempted poaching any different than what the other 9 FBS conferences have done? Why are Pac 12 fans uniquely due for pain when every single conference has poached or attempted to poach from other conferences? I'd be willing to listen that they deserve to be killed off because they have been uniquely terrible at expansion attempts, but I can't except that they deserve to be killed off because they attempted to expand. The reason that I don't want the Pac 12 to ultimately be killed off is if they are the first autonomy conference to go, we'd all be fools to think they will be last. The Big 10 isn't going to put a bullet in the conference they've been partners with for 100 years and then shrug their shoulders when the SEC decides to do the same with the ACC.

This crap has got to stop or we will also face the same ignominious fate.

Offline ben ji

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35204 on: May 16, 2023, 02:24:13 PM »
I like how everyone seemingly just forgets about Colorado.

This.  It wasn't just that they poached Colorado from the conference, they timed it with the Big 10's poach of Nebraska.  Larry Scott was all smiles as he thought he kiled the Big 12, and eliminated competition for TV contracts.  Both schools departed 6-11-10.  Pac was big-time dicks, and the current situation with the Pac is karma.  SEC didn't do their poaching until over a year later when the took Moo and cult aggie.
IIRC Colorado left because the entire big12 south was about to PACk up. The PAC didn't want Baylor tho so they invited CO to be able to say "Looks like we only need 5". Big12 south decided to stay put (for another year) but Colorado had already jumped ship.

Offline Kid In the Hall

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35205 on: May 16, 2023, 04:05:34 PM »
The PAC 100% attempted to destroy the Big 12. That is indisputable.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/oklahoma-was-within-30-minutes-of-leaving-for-the-pac-10-in-2010/

So this is a semantics discussion. We all agree that the Pac 10 had discussions with OU and UT. We disagree about how many schools they were trying to poach, how close it was to happening, and whether it's tantamount to "attempting to destroy the Big 12." What I know for a stone cold fact is the source for that Dodd/Fornelli article is unsourced. The only person on record in any of these links is the president of Texas Tech and he said the UPs in the Pac 10 voted against expansion. The "fact" that OU was 30 minutes from leaving seems to be in direct odds with the Pac 10 presidents voting against expansion. We clearly aren't going to agree on this but we've been doing expansion rumors for 13 years. Taking an unsourced rumor from 13 years ago from something that never materialized, seems like confirmation bias, given the literally hundreds of unsourced rumors, that have been reported on, throughout the years that have been complete BS.

The second part of this is whether or not they aimed to destroy the Big 12. Let's assume they actually had a plan to take 6 Big 12 schools, and Larry Scott had the votes. How is that poaching/attempted poaching any different than what the other 9 FBS conferences have done? Why are Pac 12 fans uniquely due for pain when every single conference has poached or attempted to poach from other conferences? I'd be willing to listen that they deserve to be killed off because they have been uniquely terrible at expansion attempts, but I can't except that they deserve to be killed off because they attempted to expand. The reason that I don't want the Pac 12 to ultimately be killed off is if they are the first autonomy conference to go, we'd all be fools to think they will be last. The Big 10 isn't going to put a bullet in the conference they've been partners with for 100 years and then shrug their shoulders when the SEC decides to do the same with the ACC.

This crap has got to stop or we will also face the same ignominious fate.

I don't remember the timing minute-by-minute, but is it possible that the Pac-10 UPs voted after they knew UT wasn't going to accept as a matter of saving face in the optics-driven world we live in?

As it relates to future expansion by the SEC/Big Ten, I agree with the fundamental point on the new Big 12 potentially being in the crosshairs, but also would suggest that, when combining those two leagues, you could argue that there isn't much room for addition that doesn't come with subtraction.

Once you're past that short list - Washington, Oregon, UNC, Clemson, Florida State, Virginia, Miami (and maybe a few others like Va Tech, Pitt, NC State, etc.) - it's become clear that everyone else isn't desired or they would have already been taken. So, what's the motivation for the SEC/Big Ten to go much further than 20 teams each? That's already enough to breakaway and have their own fiefdom (if that's what they want).

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35206 on: May 16, 2023, 05:00:10 PM »
I like how everyone seemingly just forgets about Colorado.

This.  It wasn't just that they poached Colorado from the conference, they timed it with the Big 10's poach of Nebraska.  Larry Scott was all smiles as he thought he kiled the Big 12, and eliminated competition for TV contracts.  Both schools departed 6-11-10.  Pac was big-time dicks, and the current situation with the Pac is karma.  SEC didn't do their poaching until over a year later when the took Moo and cult aggie.
IIRC Colorado left because the entire big12 south was about to PACk up. The PAC didn't want Baylor tho so they invited CO to be able to say "Looks like we only need 5". Big12 south decided to stay put (for another year) but Colorado had already jumped ship.

That's not accurate. Colorado had been lobbying the Pac 10 for years, Missouri did the same for with the Big 10. Nebraska surprisingly left for the Big 10 ahead of Missouri. If you recall correctly, the Big 10 had 11 members back then, when they added Nebraska they immediately went to divisions (Leaders and Legends, lol) and added a conference championship game. Colorado went to the Pac 10 a couple of days later. The other Big 12 schools looking at the Pac 10 came a couple of weeks later as a result of Colorado leaving.

https://www.espn.com/ncaa/news/story/_/id/5271438

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35207 on: May 16, 2023, 05:08:09 PM »
The PAC 100% attempted to destroy the Big 12. That is indisputable.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/oklahoma-was-within-30-minutes-of-leaving-for-the-pac-10-in-2010/

So this is a semantics discussion. We all agree that the Pac 10 had discussions with OU and UT. We disagree about how many schools they were trying to poach, how close it was to happening, and whether it's tantamount to "attempting to destroy the Big 12." What I know for a stone cold fact is the source for that Dodd/Fornelli article is unsourced. The only person on record in any of these links is the president of Texas Tech and he said the UPs in the Pac 10 voted against expansion. The "fact" that OU was 30 minutes from leaving seems to be in direct odds with the Pac 10 presidents voting against expansion. We clearly aren't going to agree on this but we've been doing expansion rumors for 13 years. Taking an unsourced rumor from 13 years ago from something that never materialized, seems like confirmation bias, given the literally hundreds of unsourced rumors, that have been reported on, throughout the years that have been complete BS.

The second part of this is whether or not they aimed to destroy the Big 12. Let's assume they actually had a plan to take 6 Big 12 schools, and Larry Scott had the votes. How is that poaching/attempted poaching any different than what the other 9 FBS conferences have done? Why are Pac 12 fans uniquely due for pain when every single conference has poached or attempted to poach from other conferences? I'd be willing to listen that they deserve to be killed off because they have been uniquely terrible at expansion attempts, but I can't except that they deserve to be killed off because they attempted to expand. The reason that I don't want the Pac 12 to ultimately be killed off is if they are the first autonomy conference to go, we'd all be fools to think they will be last. The Big 10 isn't going to put a bullet in the conference they've been partners with for 100 years and then shrug their shoulders when the SEC decides to do the same with the ACC.

This crap has got to stop or we will also face the same ignominious fate.

I don't remember the timing minute-by-minute, but is it possible that the Pac-10 UPs voted after they knew UT wasn't going to accept as a matter of saving face in the optics-driven world we live in?


It's kind of a mutual agreement thing. Texas wasn't going to evenly split revenue when they had LHN lined up and the Pac 12 UPs weren't talking Texas with unequal revenue sharing and LHN. It's kind of weird that Larry Scott was trying to bake the Texas thing work given how much he wanted the Pac 12 Network. Did he really think he could have both the Pac 12N and LHN?

Offline DQ12

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35208 on: May 17, 2023, 09:27:39 AM »
I think at the end of the day, the psychology of the Big 12 fans' schadenfreude is that the 2010-era of conference realignment was pretty traumatic for a lot of people, and so was the OU/UT episode.  Seeing other fanbases (who were perceived as ambivalent/arrogant) experience that same trauma and fear (potentially, to the Big 12's benefit) feels goooooood.


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Offline deputy dawg

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35209 on: May 17, 2023, 10:23:05 AM »
[quote
That's not accurate. Colorado had been lobbying the Pac 10 for years, Missouri did the same for with the Big 10. Nebraska surprisingly left for the Big 10 ahead of Missouri. If you recall correctly, the Big 10 had 11 members back then, when they added Nebraska they immediately went to divisions (Leaders and Legends, lol) and added a conference championship game. Colorado went to the Pac 10 a couple of days later. The other Big 12 schools looking at the Pac 10 came a couple of weeks later as a result of Colorado leaving.

https://www.espn.com/ncaa/news/story/_/id/5271438
][/quote]

Both Nebraska and Colorado left the Big 12 on the same day, though it may have hit the press on different days.  Don't act like Larry Scott was all benign in this, which makes the Pac complicit in the Big 12's anticipated demise.  You made an earlier point that this kind of thing needs to stop, and I agree.  KSU is not a very big university with a large viewer base, which puts us at the same risk as Washington State and Oregon State in the Pac.  At the same time, I'm not going to apologize for watching the Pac twist on the vine. 

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35210 on: May 17, 2023, 02:41:30 PM »
I think at the end of the day, the psychology of the Big 12 fans' schadenfreude is that the 2010-era of conference realignment was pretty traumatic for a lot of people, and so was the OU/UT episode.  Seeing other fanbases (who were perceived as ambivalent/arrogant) experience that same trauma and fear (potentially, to the Big 12's benefit) feels goooooood.

Maybe I wasn't online enough but I don't remember Washington State and Oregon State fans dancing on Big 12 graves. Ironically enough back in 2010 it was Colorado fans who were the most vocal and the last two years that has shifted to Utah. Maybe I'd be more in to the schadenfreude and on the "eff those guys" front if we weren't throwing a lifeline to the two most unearned arrogant fan bases in that conference.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35211 on: May 17, 2023, 02:46:36 PM »
[quote
That's not accurate. Colorado had been lobbying the Pac 10 for years, Missouri did the same for with the Big 10. Nebraska surprisingly left for the Big 10 ahead of Missouri. If you recall correctly, the Big 10 had 11 members back then, when they added Nebraska they immediately went to divisions (Leaders and Legends, lol) and added a conference championship game. Colorado went to the Pac 10 a couple of days later. The other Big 12 schools looking at the Pac 10 came a couple of weeks later as a result of Colorado leaving.

https://www.espn.com/ncaa/news/story/_/id/5271438
]

Both Nebraska and Colorado left the Big 12 on the same day, though it may have hit the press on different days.  Don't act like Larry Scott was all benign in this, which makes the Pac complicit in the Big 12's anticipated demise.  You made an earlier point that this kind of thing needs to stop, and I agree.  KSU is not a very big university with a large viewer base, which puts us at the same risk as Washington State and Oregon State in the Pac.  At the same time, I'm not going to apologize for watching the Pac twist on the vine.
[/quote]

Yes, that date was a formality, Nebraska announced their intent to leave a couple of weeks before.

I'm not acting like Larry Scott was benign, I talked about him foolishly trying to pursue Texas and the LHN while trying to stay and grow the Pac 12 Network. Larry Scott absolutely wanted other Big 12 schools, there's no doubt about that, he was cartoonishly flying a private jet all around the great plains meeting with schools. The question is how much the Pac 12 UPs wanted the schools he wanted and how much UT and OU wanted to go. Thankfully, they had the foresight to see they would make more money here and decided to stay.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35212 on: May 17, 2023, 02:57:35 PM »
DeLoss Dodds was the primary reason Texas didn't leave for the Pac 12.

Thank you DeLoss.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35213 on: May 17, 2023, 03:03:36 PM »
I think at the end of the day, the psychology of the Big 12 fans' schadenfreude is that the 2010-era of conference realignment was pretty traumatic for a lot of people, and so was the OU/UT episode.  Seeing other fanbases (who were perceived as ambivalent/arrogant) experience that same trauma and fear (potentially, to the Big 12's benefit) feels goooooood.

Maybe I wasn't online enough but I don't remember Washington State and Oregon State fans dancing on Big 12 graves. Ironically enough back in 2010 it was Colorado fans who were the most vocal and the last two years that has shifted to Utah. Maybe I'd be more in to the schadenfreude and on the "eff those guys" front if we weren't throwing a lifeline to the two most unearned arrogant fan bases in that conference.
I never said the psychology was logical.

And fwiw it would make me very happy to see Colorado left out (even though they make the most sense for the Big 12).


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Offline WillieWatanabe

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35214 on: May 17, 2023, 04:14:39 PM »
If Texas would have left for the Pac-12 then, would they be leaving for the SEC now? I assume so?
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Offline Spracne

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35215 on: May 17, 2023, 04:15:41 PM »
If Texas would have left for the Pac-12 then, would they be leaving for the SEC now? I assume so?

No. Whether or not they left for the PAC, they would be leaving for the big 10 had Bill Powers not died.

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35216 on: May 17, 2023, 04:16:14 PM »
I would like to see the Big XII invite ASU and AU.  Let Utah and Colorado find their own way to the MWC.  The problem is we probably need these two schools.  I don't think the ACC will break up.  I kind of like that the schools that win get the money from it.  The funny thing is, one of the so-called lower schools Wake Forest says they have the longest bowl winning streak in the conference and the most CCGs' after Clemson and FSU.  :lol:

Edit:  I just heard this today on one of the many podcasts I listened to and had not verified if this is true or not.
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Offline Kid In the Hall

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35217 on: May 17, 2023, 05:04:07 PM »
I would like to see the Big XII invite ASU and AU.  Let Utah and Colorado find their own way to the MWC.  The problem is we probably need these two schools.  I don't think the ACC will break up.  I kind of like that the schools that win get the money from it.  The funny thing is, one of the so-called lower schools Wake Forest says they have the longest bowl winning streak in the conference and the most CCGs' after Clemson and FSU.  :lol:

Edit:  I just heard this today on one of the many podcasts I listened to and had not verified if this is true or not.

The problem with the unequal revenue distribution is that, compared to the Big Ten/SEC, it doesn't really matter. It's going to be $5-10 million more per year, which is relatively insignificant compared to being $40-50 million behind every team in those leagues. It's a short-sighted solution that isn't really a solution and will only create resentment, mistrust, etc. within the league.

But, if you're Wake Forest, Syracuse, etc., I guess you allow it because you hope it keeps those teams in the league down the road - even though it won't because the instant they get an offer from the Big Ten/SEC, they're gone.

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35218 on: May 17, 2023, 09:32:35 PM »
The internet says that the 7 ACC "haves" are genuinely interested in breaking up with the ACC.  A Boone Pickens type rascal should investigate buying them out, acquiring their rights, and the rights of a new conference with Oregon and Washington and a few other schools.

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35219 on: May 18, 2023, 11:42:29 AM »
A new rumor that may or may not grow legs.  The magnificent seven are not done with the involvement of their conference.  Supposedly, they will talk to network(s) about a contract with a newly formed 8-9 team league.  Greg Swaim has just reported Louisville has joined the seven so they now have enough to dissolve the conference.  It was also noted that this might not occur until the other conferences' new contracts open in the 2030s'.
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Offline Kid In the Hall

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35220 on: May 18, 2023, 11:59:32 AM »
A new rumor that may or may not grow legs.  The magnificent seven are not done with the involvement of their conference.  Supposedly, they will talk to network(s) about a contract with a newly formed 8-9 team league.  Greg Swaim has just reported Louisville has joined the seven so they now have enough to dissolve the conference.  It was also noted that this might not occur until the other conferences' new contracts open in the 2030s'.

If/when that league crumbles 10 years before it needed to, it's going to be awfully funny if effing Louisville pushed things over the edge. I mean, they've got to know that they will never have it better than they do right now, right?

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35222 on: May 18, 2023, 02:09:58 PM »
The internet says that the 7 ACC "haves" are genuinely interested in breaking up with the ACC.  A Boone Pickens type rascal should investigate buying them out, acquiring their rights, and the rights of a new conference with Oregon and Washington and a few other schools.

Forget the grant of rights, these 7 schools have an ESPN problem. Where are they going to go? All seven aren't going to the Big 10. ESPN isn't going to give the SEC or the Big 12 more money for the same damn programming. Why would ESPN pay the SEC $75 million for Florida State when they already have them at $36 million?


Offline Houstoncat93

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #35224 on: May 18, 2023, 04:48:00 PM »
The internet says that the 7 ACC "haves" are genuinely interested in breaking up with the ACC.  A Boone Pickens type rascal should investigate buying them out, acquiring their rights, and the rights of a new conference with Oregon and Washington and a few other schools.

I doubt this goes anywhere for another 10 years.  It seems this was more about brainstorming how to get out to the GOR and they all came up with is you can't.