Tim Fitzgerald just called us out on "The Drive" + Bonus Content + Underwood

[Trim]

Wow, never had chingon pegged as a not real kstate fan.   

[CHONGS]

We can't fire oscar Weber with this 17 Big 12 championships and 36 national titles. 

[ChiComCat]

I think the 5 count was from 2 MVC, 2 Big Ten, and 1 Big 12

[CHONGS]

I think the 5 count was from 2 MVC, 2 Big Ten, and 1 Big 12

Oh man, just who is the BIG DOG from the MVC? 

[Trim]

I think the 5 count was from 2 MVC, 2 Big Ten, and 1 Big 12

Oh man, just who is the BIG DOG from the MVC? 

[Mixed-Nutz]

I think the 5 count was from 2 MVC, 2 Big Ten, and 1 Big 12

Oh man, just who is the BIG DOG from the MVC?

Easily Creighton till they moved on.

[8manpick]

Never mind that in the decade before oscar, Southern Illinois won as many conference titles,  went to more NCAAs than Creighton and more NITs, but yeah... Statistics are for morons

[RU82]

I went ahead and actually crunched the numbers. The following stats are for the NCAA tournaments from 2004 - 2014.

Over the course of those ten years there have been 74 different teams in the Sweet 16. Of those 74, only 18 have an appearance % of 40% or above.

Sweet 16 appearance % (2004-2014)

40%
Syracuse
Washington
Villanova
Memphis
UCLA
Tennessee

50%
Xavier
UCONN
Arizona
Louisville
West Virginia
North Carolina
Kentucky
Florida
Ohio State

60%

Oddly no one made it exactly 6 out of 10 times.

70%
KU
Duke
Michigan State

So perhaps my idealism of 75% was a little too high. But a 50-60% appearance rate doesn't seem all that unreasonable as a goal for an elite program.
-------------------------------------------
Interesting - this sort of validates my theory that the Big 12 and the SEC have always been more focused on football.  Thus it allows a school like KU  to dominate their league basketball.   Notice that  the Big 12 each only have 1 team in that list.  You cannot count W. Virginia as they have only been in the Big 12 two of those 10 years.

I was explaining this to a friend.  I said have you noticed that Nebraska has never went after a big time coach in BB.  They have the money to match any school in the country.  Same with Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M.   You know KU, N. Carolina, Duke, UCLA ...... etc would not have put up with Rick Barnes record considering the talent he has had.     

Also why do many of the good coaches leave the Big 12 when they were up-n-comers.  Why not stay in the conference.  The only two that have stayed are Bill Self.  Fred Hoiberg might stay.

Mark Turgeon,
Kelvin Sampson
Billy Gillespie
Lon Kruger
Roy Williams
Mike Anderson
Tim Floyd

Lately,  the Big 12 gets most of its coaches who have been fired from better programs and are on the decline in their career.  All had great success at one time but not at their last stop.  The exception may be Eddie Sutton.
Lon Krueger (current)
Tubby Smith (current)
Billy Gillespie
Bobby Knight
Bob Huggins (current)
Eddie Sutton
Trent Johnson (Current)
Tubby Smith (current)


Also has anyone noticed that if you are a perennial powerhouse in Basketball  then your football team usually is not very good and usually has been bad.  (KU, Kentucky, Duke, N. Carolina)  I think those 4 teams are probably in the Top 5 all time NCAA basketball appearances.   On 2 teams on that list (Florida, Ohio State) are blue blood football programs.   It must be hard to have a great team in both Football and Basketball.  I don't know why.

[CHONGS]

Circle of Life

Dana Altman is not good enough for KSU -> scooped up by BIG DOG Creighton <---> battles MVC foe Salukis lead by basketball prodigy Weber --> Weber triumphs and takes over Illinois which has just has it's coach scooped by BIG DOG KU (who incidentally followed Lon Kruger who jumped ship for a better job than KSU) --> oscar is victimized by bad luck, insane expectations, players with poor body language and KSU can see through these misfortunes to make the hire of the millenium in oscar Weber.

[nicname]

I want to punch people who say K-State should expect to be in the top half of the league.

why?

[nicname]

Regardless of how things are trending firing oscar at the end of the season doesn't seem realistic. That's not to say history isn't on those who want him gone ASAP's side.

Realistically, this year is a dive and either oscar turns it up next season of he's gonzo. That brings in a huge fear of oscar doing just enough to stay on the job, beginning a multi-year span of dancing between the NCAA and NIT bubbles. It's absolutely realistic to hope for the short-term worst, because they want long-term success.

But that's where the masses just can't come to grips with the fire-now sentiment. It's impossible for many people to think so pragmatically. I get the line of thought, but just can't pull myself to root for the worst, even though I fear the best might not be very good at all.

It's almost like so many political arguments we see today where one side just will not accept the other's viewpoint and vice versa.

[ednksu]

I want to punch people who say K-State should expect to be in the top half of the league.

why?

Poorly worded on my part.  It seems to be a statement of complacency.  I'll say at times I still live in a 12 team paradigm so I want at least upper third in that world (which also is part of why I worded the comment so bad).  I expect to be in the tournament every year with maybe 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 dropping by some oddity (like a ridic league where we get left out like Hug's year).  I think 4th in this 10 team world is minimum.  Now previously the Big12 hasn't had much room between 2 or 3 and 7 or 8 over the last few years, so one or two games will be critical.  That means we win random road games at Tech, and probably WVU.

[nicname]

I want to punch people who say K-State should expect to be in the top half of the league.

why?

Poorly worded on my part.  It seems to be a statement of complacency.  I'll say at times I still live in a 12 team paradigm so I want at least upper third in that world (which also is part of why I worded the comment so bad).  I expect to be in the tournament every year with maybe 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 dropping by some oddity (like a ridic league where we get left out like Hug's year).  I think 4th in this 10 team world is minimum.  Now previously the Big12 hasn't had much room between 2 or 3 and 7 or 8 over the last few years, so one or two games will be critical.  That means we win random road games at Tech, and probably WVU.

Funny, I assumed you thought that was too steep a goal for the Cats. I think averaging top 4-5 is right where expectations should be until proven that KSU can compete at a higher level — or  we fall so far that adjustments need to be made in the other direction.

[Skipper44]

Regardless of how things are trending firing oscar at the end of the season doesn't seem realistic. That's not to say history isn't on those who want him gone ASAP's side.

Realistically, this year is a dive and either oscar turns it up next season of he's gonzo. That brings in a huge fear of oscar doing just enough to stay on the job, beginning a multi-year span of dancing between the NCAA and NIT bubbles. It's absolutely realistic to hope for the short-term worst, because they want long-term success.

But that's where the masses just can't come to grips with the fire-now sentiment. It's impossible for many people to think so pragmatically. I get the line of thought, but just can't pull myself to root for the worst, even though I fear the best might not be very good at all.

It's almost like so many political arguments we see today where one side just will not accept the other's viewpoint and vice versa.

I really like this post, it hits on my fear of oscar's very low ceiling roller coaster and the division in the fanbase he has created.  To continue the political comparo I have great hope that Brad could be the consensus builder we need.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Regardless of how things are trending firing oscar at the end of the season doesn't seem realistic. That's not to say history isn't on those who want him gone ASAP's side.

Realistically, this year is a dive and either oscar turns it up next season of he's gonzo. That brings in a huge fear of oscar doing just enough to stay on the job, beginning a multi-year span of dancing between the NCAA and NIT bubbles. It's absolutely realistic to hope for the short-term worst, because they want long-term success.

But that's where the masses just can't come to grips with the fire-now sentiment. It's impossible for many people to think so pragmatically. I get the line of thought, but just can't pull myself to root for the worst, even though I fear the best might not be very good at all.

It's almost like so many political arguments we see today where one side just will not accept the other's viewpoint and vice versa.

You have to finish in the top half of the league most years. You can get pass on bad years with great years. Finishing in the top half every year is stupid of you don't have great years. I want great years more than anything. oscar in the next two years has to have another great year or eff him. If he has another bad year next year eff him. That is where he stands, IMO.

[michigancat]

In all seriousness, we should give oscar a lifetime contract if we don't fire him after this season.

The man's been a college basketball head coach for 17 seasons -what could we possibly learn about oscar next season that we don't already know? What on Earth does one more season give us? With a lifetime contract, everyone, especially recruits, knows what they'll be getting into. "Win next season or get fired" ultimatums basically mean you're already fired, and everyone in the world, especially recruits, knows it.

[Trim]

I'm done calling for oscar to be fired.  Still gonna mock him, but just as a way of mocking what an absurd choice he was.  But he didn't torpedo ksu hoops.  As catbreader might say, he's just the known AIDS that the administration willingly ejaculated into ksu hoops.  I've learned to appreciate emaw basketball for its comedic value, and that's just how it's going to be until there's a good basketball coach-pick'r in place.  Whatever bad things come of oscar coaching can just keep on happening to Currie.  At least there's bacon and cookies for him to snack on.

[Skipper44]

I'm done calling for oscar to be fired.  Still gonna mock him, but just as a way of mocking what an absurd choice he was.  But he didn't torpedo ksu hoops.  As catbreader might say, he's just the known AIDS that the administration willingly ejaculated into ksu hoops.  I've learned to appreciate emaw basketball for its comedic value, and that's just how it's going to be until there's a good basketball coach-pick'r in place.  Whatever bad things come of oscar coaching can just keep on happening to Currie.  At least there's bacon and cookies for him to snack on.

I can't and don't want to quit cat hoops but totally agree that the odds of the current coach-pick'r making a better hire than oscar is low.  This fact is just one more reason for #bringbradhome

[Mr Bread]

I applaud your commitment to excellence.

Would be interested in a list of programs that have made it to the NCAA and the S16 75% of the time over the past 10 years.

Not KU, UK, UNC, Duke or UL.  Yard Dog is a liar though.

I went ahead and actually crunched the numbers. The following stats are for the NCAA tournaments from 2004 - 2014.

Over the course of those ten years there have been 74 different teams in the Sweet 16. Of those 74, only 18 have an appearance % of 40% or above.

Sweet 16 appearance % (2004-2014)

40%
Syracuse
Washington
Villanova
Memphis
UCLA
Tennessee

50%
Xavier
UCONN
Arizona
Louisville
West Virginia
North Carolina
Kentucky
Florida
Ohio State

60%

Oddly no one made it exactly 6 out of 10 times.

70%
KU
Duke
Michigan State

So perhaps my idealism of 75% was a little too high. But a 50-60% appearance rate doesn't seem all that unreasonable as a goal for an elite program.

2004-05 to 2013-14 is ten seasons worth of college basketball.  The last ten.  The first team I looked at, Duke, went 6 times.  The second team, UNC, also 6.  The third, KU, 6.  Then I stopped because you're a rough ridin' idiot. 

[Trim]

I'm done calling for oscar to be fired.  Still gonna mock him, but just as a way of mocking what an absurd choice he was.  But he didn't torpedo ksu hoops.  As catbreader might say, he's just the known AIDS that the administration willingly ejaculated into ksu hoops.  I've learned to appreciate emaw basketball for its comedic value, and that's just how it's going to be until there's a good basketball coach-pick'r in place.  Whatever bad things come of oscar coaching can just keep on happening to Currie.  At least there's bacon and cookies for him to snack on.

I can't and don't want to quit cat hoops but totally agree that the odds of the current coach-pick'r making a better hire than oscar is low.  This fact is just one more reason for #bringbradhome

You don't have to quit cat hoops, but you can watch and enjoy it from a different perspective. 

I'm still confident Brad won't work for Currie.

[CHONGS]

Regardless of how things are trending firing oscar at the end of the season doesn't seem realistic. That's not to say history isn't on those who want him gone ASAP's side.

Realistically, this year is a dive and either oscar turns it up next season of he's gonzo. That brings in a huge fear of oscar doing just enough to stay on the job, beginning a multi-year span of dancing between the NCAA and NIT bubbles. It's absolutely realistic to hope for the short-term worst, because they want long-term success.

But that's where the masses just can't come to grips with the fire-now sentiment. It's impossible for many people to think so pragmatically. I get the line of thought, but just can't pull myself to root for the worst, even though I fear the best might not be very good at all.

It's almost like so many political arguments we see today where one side just will not accept the other's viewpoint and vice versa.

You have to finish in the top half of the league most years. You can get pass on bad years with great years. Finishing in the top half every year is stupid of you don't have great years. I want great years more than anything. oscar in the next two years has to have another great year or eff him. If he has another bad year next year eff him. That is where he stands, IMO.

Eh you'll find a way to lower the bar for a "bad year", guys like you always will. There will be some excuse, some rationalization, something beyond poor oscar's control that will make you say: "maybe next year the stars will align just right!".   I mean if he finishes just barely above .500 next year in conference and maybe squeaks into the NIT you will claim that is a not a "bad year".  The definition of a "bad year" will slowly slide into lower and lower so "being competitive" and "good hustle" against KU will be enough.

[Skipper44]

I'm done calling for oscar to be fired.  Still gonna mock him, but just as a way of mocking what an absurd choice he was.  But he didn't torpedo ksu hoops.  As catbreader might say, he's just the known AIDS that the administration willingly ejaculated into ksu hoops.  I've learned to appreciate emaw basketball for its comedic value, and that's just how it's going to be until there's a good basketball coach-pick'r in place.  Whatever bad things come of oscar coaching can just keep on happening to Currie.  At least there's bacon and cookies for him to snack on.

I can't and don't want to quit cat hoops but totally agree that the odds of the current coach-pick'r making a better hire than oscar is low.  This fact is just one more reason for #bringbradhome

You don't have to quit cat hoops, but you can watch and enjoy it from a different perspective. 

I'm still confident Brad won't work for Currie.

If he is still at SFA making $400k is he really going to say no to doubling his salary at his alma mater?  I could see him not leaving if he has just taken a low level SEC job or something but he likely has to win at a AAC type job first anyway.

[j rake]

he has had really good years and really poor years.  more than anything, he is a high variance coach.

in the last 14 seasons, across three different schools, oscar's teams have been rated:

SIU - 49th, 57th
Illinois - 13th, 1st, 10th, 39th, 51st, 23rd, 56th, 19th, 82nd
KSU - 21st, 43rd, 89th (in progress)

so, this is basically as bad as it gets for a oscar-coached team. this year's team is rated worse than the '11 team that quit on him, and that's only because he's without the team's best player. it probably won't get any worse going forward. oscar will consistently field competitive teams that are likely to be comfortably inside the bubble or directly on it.

he's not going to do more with less. he's unlikely to do less with more. he's just going to be average.

[Mr Bread]

I'm done calling for oscar to be fired.  Still gonna mock him, but just as a way of mocking what an absurd choice he was.  But he didn't torpedo ksu hoops.  As catbreader might say, he's just the known AIDS that the administration willingly ejaculated into ksu hoops.  I've learned to appreciate emaw basketball for its comedic value, and that's just how it's going to be until there's a good basketball coach-pick'r in place.  Whatever bad things come of oscar coaching can just keep on happening to Currie.  At least there's bacon and cookies for him to snack on.

dude, know what you are. you're illinois. you're not appreciably better than northwestern in football, and your hoops isn't - and never has been - a national powerhouse. your best year came with weber at the helm. now he's gone. deal with it.

your new coach wouldn't have been hired if he didn't win a pair of games in the tournament. he will fail, and fail miserably, and you weird illinois fans with your stupid, highly overrated orange crush student section will be sobbing for weber and wishing he'd come back to champaign to eat your chicken nuggets and mow your lawns and pick up your dry cleaning.

so please, take your former racist mascot chief illinigook, your disloyal athletic director, your ugly fans and your papa del's pizza and go away. i think jim croce or john grossi or jim crocket or (whoever) is about to reel in a big 2-star forward to add to his top 200 recruiting class which will combine with your weak-minded, undisciplined loser players.

have fun in the CBI.

I understand you're angry.  Your basketball program recently caught gonorrhea.  Now not only does it burn when you pee and you have this discharge, but people are actually trying to sell you on gonorrhea, telling you you were fortunate to catch it when you did.  Then these people show up who had it for years, but were recently cured and you hate them for it.  You want not to have gonorrhea like them, but you know you're going to have it for years and it's just going to go right on burning and dripping.  Worse you find yourself accepting your gonorrhea and pointing out its positives, but not so deep down you hate yourself for it.  You're gonna pull through, it's just going to be very unpleasant.  Welcome to your life with gonorrhea.     

[j rake]

dude, know what you are. you're illinois. you're not appreciably better than northwestern in football, and your hoops isn't - and never has been - a national powerhouse. your best year came with weber at the helm. now he's gone. deal with it.

your new coach wouldn't have been hired if he didn't win a pair of games in the tournament. he will fail, and fail miserably, and you weird illinois fans with your stupid, highly overrated orange crush student section will be sobbing for weber and wishing he'd come back to champaign to eat your chicken nuggets and mow your lawns and pick up your dry cleaning.

so please, take your former racist mascot chief illinigook, your disloyal athletic director, your ugly fans and your papa del's pizza and go away. i think jim croce or john grossi or jim crocket or (whoever) is about to reel in a big 2-star forward to add to his top 200 recruiting class which will combine with your weak-minded, undisciplined loser players.

have fun in the CBI.

wtf? i don't remember typing that at all.