StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[Dugout DickStone]

If only there was a way to avoid killing someone with asthma when choking them.

[Fedor]

If only there was a way to avoid killing someone with asthma when choking them.

I bet there is.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Not that it matters, but if he was saying "I can't breath" - then he was breathing. He just wasn't breathing well. The dude was a 500 pound asthmatic having his chest compressed to the pavement. His heart was in bad shape to begin with. Dumbass cops should have taken that into account.

[Spracne]

The police officer's actions led to his death.  However, I don't think his actions were sufficient to cause the death of a normal, healthy individual.  There is no way his hold cut off the supply of oxygen to the brain long enough to cause death.  Not defending the cop.  Just breaking down the film.

I guess we will never know how the guy who was being choked aggressively died.  Could have been cancer I guess.  No need to perform an autopsy.

Again, I don't think it's a good idea to go around putting chokeholds on people who are not being violent.  My point is that a chokehold of the type and duration of the one in the video cannot be reasonably expected to cause death.  I think that's relevant to the mens rea component.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Was he pointing out that it's absurd that he was forcibly arrested over such an absurd law? Because I agree with that.

You don't think drugs should be regulated?

That's cute - but let's maybe not be cute about this, ok? The dude wasn't dealing crack or even marijuana - he was selling tobacco in the form of "loose cigarettes" - which would ordinarily be legal except that it violated an ordinance designed to prevent people from dodging a hefty city sales tax. I'm simply pointing out that it seems absurd for someone to die over such an absurd infraction of an absurd law - and I think that may be Rand Paul's point also.

I don't think it's ridiculous to arrest him. He didn't die over the infraction. He died because the murderer cop choked him out.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Of course the overzealous cop was the most proximate cause of his death. The guy's severe obesity and asthma was undoubtedly another contributing factor. But I do think the arrest itself was ridiculous. It's a stupid law and a stupid waste of law enforcement to enforce that law. Rand Paul is right to point that out. He's not saying the cop had nothing to do with it, but the cop would never have been in that situation if not for a very stupid tax and law.

The law isn't stupid at all if you don't like the idea of people selling cigarettes to kids on street corners. Drugs need to be regulated.

[Mr Bread]

The police officer's actions led to his death.  However, I don't think his actions were sufficient to cause the death of a normal, healthy individual.  There is no way his hold cut off the supply of oxygen to the brain long enough to cause death.  Not defending the cop.  Just breaking down the film.

He died of a heart attack is what I read.  Brought on by choking and asthma and heart disease.  This wasn't nearly as egregious as shooting somebody a bunch of times.

[Fedor]

The police officer's actions led to his death.  However, I don't think his actions were sufficient to cause the death of a normal, healthy individual.  There is no way his hold cut off the supply of oxygen to the brain long enough to cause death.  Not defending the cop.  Just breaking down the film.

I guess we will never know how the guy who was being choked aggressively died.  Could have been cancer I guess.  No need to perform an autopsy.

But a source close to the Medical Examiner’s investigation said coroners are also investigating whether the chokehold still contributed to Garner’s death by aggravating his pre-existing conditions of obesity, asthma and possible heart disease. He died of cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

[EMAWmeister]

It was ruled homicide by a medical examiner, who likely took everything mentioned here into account. That's enough to charge someone with murder, manslaughter etc

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Cops should just let big fat people go if the resist arrest.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Cops should just let big fat people go if the resist arrest.

Just how far do you think that guy could run?

[Trim]

All of my chokeouts probably would've resulted in death had gE'rs not pried my hands off.

[Dugout DickStone]

Cops should just let big fat people go if the resist arrest.

If the alternative is killing them for selling smokes, I'd be cool with that.

[Spracne]

It was ruled homicide by a medical examiner, who likely took everything mentioned here into account. That's enough to charge someone with murder, manslaughter etc

No, it's pretty straightforward for the medical examiner.  It's not his job to perform a mini-trial in his head.  That a death is ruled a homicide does not necessarily mean a criminal act has occurred.  So, yeah, you're super wrong.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Cops should just let big fat people go if the resist arrest.

If the alternative is killing them for selling smokes, I'd be cool with that.

Eat themselves into immunity. 

[EMAWican]

How many kids' lives did these cops save by killing this guy?  I'd say 10-15 lives from dying from lung cancer, 5-7 from throat cancer, and when you figure in the second-hand health effects, well I say these cops need to get a medal.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

It was ruled homicide by a medical examiner, who likely took everything mentioned here into account. That's enough to charge someone with murder, manslaughter etc

No, it's pretty straightforward for the medical examiner.  It's not his job to perform a mini-trial in his head.  That a death is ruled a homicide does not necessarily mean a criminal act has occurred.  So, yeah, you're super wrong.

Correct. "Homicide" only means a death caused by another person, but not necessarily wrongful.

[Cartierfor3]

Cops should just let big fat people go if the resist arrest.

He didn't resist arrest. The officers never informed him that he would be placed under arrest. They attacked him like a gang.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Cops should just let big fat people go if the resist arrest.

It would be safer to shoot them in the buttocks with a tranquilizer dart, like they do for rhinos.

[star seed 7]

The local shop owners called the police to get rid of him.  He had been arrested like 30+ times, I'm sure he knew that jerking away from the cops would be viewed as resisting.

[420seriouscat69]

If the movie The Purge was real, cops would be really good at it. They've been practicing for years. Kinda unfair.

[star seed 7]

Cops should just let big fat people go if the resist arrest.

He didn't resist arrest. The officers never informed him that he would be placed under arrest. They attacked him like a gang.

From what I've heard, that was edited out of the video everyone has seen, the full video has the police talking

[Trim]

The local shop owners called the police to get rid of him.  He had been arrested like 30+ times, I'm sure he knew that jerking away from the cops would be viewed as resisting.

Link?

A guy that's on Hosie's show often lives right there and is pretty familiar with the whole situation. 

['taterblast]

is this what "ending your throat" means?

[CNS]

The police officer's actions led to his death.  However, I don't think his actions were sufficient to cause the death of a normal, healthy individual.  There is no way his hold cut off the supply of oxygen to the brain long enough to cause death.  Not defending the cop.  Just breaking down the film.

I guess we will never know how the guy who was being choked aggressively died.  Could have been cancer I guess.  No need to perform an autopsy.

Probably allergic to ambulance rides. 

[CNS]

How do cops normally arrest normal sized ppl that put their hands up and say "don't touch me"?  I mean, that has to be like day one of training, right?  Maybe just apply that model?