StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[Rage Against the McKee]

This cop is going to walk unless he's assassinated before the acquittal.

Yep

chowder keg is about to go off. 

Highly unlikely

[Dugout DickStone]

A fracture provides evidence of more significant injury, which provides greater - though not conclusive - justification for deadly force. It's just one more thing to take into account when determining whether the officer had a reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily harm or death.

Yes

[slucat]

A fracture provides evidence of more significant injury, which provides greater - though not conclusive - justification for deadly force. It's just one more thing to take into account when determining whether the officer had a reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily harm or death.

Yes

I'm not sure any fracture really justifies two gunshots to the head.

[CNS]

A fracture provides evidence of more significant injury, which provides greater - though not conclusive - justification for deadly force. It's just one more thing to take into account when determining whether the officer had a reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily harm or death.

Yes

I'm not sure any fracture really justifies two gunshots to the head.

No, but if you just had your face caved in, it is more reasonable to think that you might interpret the situation to be life or death than if you just got pushed or something.

[Brock Landers]

A fracture provides evidence of more significant injury, which provides greater - though not conclusive - justification for deadly force. It's just one more thing to take into account when determining whether the officer had a reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily harm or death.

Sorry but this is absurd.  There's no way the cop would have immediately known he had a fracture and acted differently.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

People that attack police deserve to be shot. Just like people who play with fire deserved to be burned, and people who mess with a bull get the horns, and people that stand on the tracks when the train is coming through get flattened.

One less stupid mother rough rider stupid mother fuckering our country.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

A fracture provides evidence of more significant injury, which provides greater - though not conclusive - justification for deadly force. It's just one more thing to take into account when determining whether the officer had a reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily harm or death.

Sorry but this is absurd.  There's no way the cop would have immediately known he had a fracture and acted differently.

Can't tell if serious, but

[Fedor]

A fracture provides evidence of more significant injury, which provides greater - though not conclusive - justification for deadly force. It's just one more thing to take into account when determining whether the officer had a reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily harm or death.

Sorry but this is absurd.  There's no way the cop would have immediately known he had a fracture and acted differently.

Correct.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

People that attack police deserve to be shot. Just like people who play with fire deserved to be burned, and people who mess with a bull get the horns, and people that stand on the tracks when the train is coming through get flattened.

One less stupid mother rough rider stupid mother fuckering our country.

I think that people who attack police deserve a taser to the face and/or nutsack - not so sure about being shot to death. I do agree with the overall sentiment that we're down one more violent criminal, but our society has rules that everyone, even law enforcement, needs to abide by.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

A fracture provides evidence of more significant injury, which provides greater - though not conclusive - justification for deadly force. It's just one more thing to take into account when determining whether the officer had a reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily harm or death.

Sorry but this is absurd.  There's no way the cop would have immediately known he had a fracture and acted differently.

Correct.

No, seriously, . Whether the officer knew of the exact nature of his injury is irrelevant - any person is well aware of the pain/trauma/disorientation of an injury - some scratching versus punches to the face, for example - and that is absoluty relevant.

[#LIFE]

People that attack police deserve to be shot. Just like people who play with fire deserved to be burned, and people who mess with a bull get the horns, and people that stand on the tracks when the train is coming through get flattened.

One less stupid mother rough rider stupid mother fuckering our country.

I think that people who attack police deserve a taser to the face and/or nutsack - not so sure about being shot to death. I do agree with the overall sentiment that we're down one more violent criminal, but our society has rules that everyone, even law enforcement, needs to abide by.

Not saying he was innocent by any means but this is quite the assumption to make

[Brock Landers]

A fracture provides evidence of more significant injury, which provides greater - though not conclusive - justification for deadly force. It's just one more thing to take into account when determining whether the officer had a reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily harm or death.

Sorry but this is absurd.  There's no way the cop would have immediately known he had a fracture and acted differently.

Correct.

No, seriously, . Whether the officer knew of the exact nature of his injury is irrelevant - any person is well aware of the pain/trauma/disorientation of an injury - some scratching versus punches to the face, for example - and that is absoluty relevant.

Thanks for agreeing with me.  What are you talking about scratches for?  Sure, in some hypothetical example of a cop getting his face scratched and then blowing that person away would be pretty bad but that's not what happened here.  Any fractures, or lack thereof, have no relevance to the cop's actions.

[Dugout DickStone]

CNS last page i posted a huff po link with a police presser.  in it the Chief gave a brief, poorly organized timeline.  The cop *could* have heard the suspect description right before the fatal confrontation occurred. 

Also as I noted the most favorable accounts to the officer point towards the j-walking stop. Some brief pause or break in contact, possibly coinciding with the radio call, and the resulting series of altercations which led to the shooting and death of Mr. Brown.

KC radio said that from the police dept's own release that the officer didn't know.

The issue which has been raised, and rightly so because of the terribly unorganized release of info, is what the officer knew and when.  The most favorable accounts agree that the initial stop was NOT because of the robbery as you note.  That the conversation between Brown and Wilson ended/lulled and the radio released new info with a description which matched Brown which re-intensified the conversation/interaction into an altercation.  But I yield again, that is the most favorable way of forming the events to Wilson, and built on the horribly shoddy release of info by the police.

The police's release of information is intentionally shoddy (and totally nonexistent except for the robbery video) as they wait to see which narrative can best be supported and will lead to the best outcome for Wilson and their department.

[CNS]

Regardless whether wilson goes to jail, he is going to be wrongful-death sued into nothingness, right?

[steve dave]

Regardless whether wilson goes to jail, he is going to be wrongful-death sued into nothingness, right?

I don't know many city cops with enough assets to care about this type of thing. the dept. should be more worried about it.

[SdK]

I'm with Dickstone.

[SdK]

SD is also with Dickstone.

[ednksu]

CNS last page i posted a huff po link with a police presser.  in it the Chief gave a brief, poorly organized timeline.  The cop *could* have heard the suspect description right before the fatal confrontation occurred. 

Also as I noted the most favorable accounts to the officer point towards the j-walking stop. Some brief pause or break in contact, possibly coinciding with the radio call, and the resulting series of altercations which led to the shooting and death of Mr. Brown.

KC radio said that from the police dept's own release that the officer didn't know.

The issue which has been raised, and rightly so because of the terribly unorganized release of info, is what the officer knew and when.  The most favorable accounts agree that the initial stop was NOT because of the robbery as you note.  That the conversation between Brown and Wilson ended/lulled and the radio released new info with a description which matched Brown which re-intensified the conversation/interaction into an altercation.  But I yield again, that is the most favorable way of forming the events to Wilson, and built on the horribly shoddy release of info by the police.

The police's release of information is intentionally shoddy (and totally nonexistent except for the robbery video) as they wait to see which narrative can best be supported and will lead to the best outcome for Wilson and their department.

I'll disagree with the nefarious nature of these releases, I just see incompetence.  I think its supported by the fact the cops were slow to release very damaging info for the Brown story. 

[ednksu]

A fracture provides evidence of more significant injury, which provides greater - though not conclusive - justification for deadly force. It's just one more thing to take into account when determining whether the officer had a reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily harm or death.

Sorry but this is absurd.  There's no way the cop would have immediately known he had a fracture and acted differently.

Correct.

Incorrect.
https://www2.aofoundation.org/wps/portal/surgery/?showPage=redfix&bone=CMF&segment=Midface&classification=92-Orbit,+Orbital+floor+fracture&treatment=&method=Open+treatment&implantstype=Orbital+reconstruction&redfix_url=1285234139892

I take it none of you have had or known anyone with a facial injury.  Even if its a small fracture your body doesn't just 'walk off' that injury. 

[Dugout DickStone]

CNS last page i posted a huff po link with a police presser.  in it the Chief gave a brief, poorly organized timeline.  The cop *could* have heard the suspect description right before the fatal confrontation occurred. 

Also as I noted the most favorable accounts to the officer point towards the j-walking stop. Some brief pause or break in contact, possibly coinciding with the radio call, and the resulting series of altercations which led to the shooting and death of Mr. Brown.

KC radio said that from the police dept's own release that the officer didn't know.

The issue which has been raised, and rightly so because of the terribly unorganized release of info, is what the officer knew and when.  The most favorable accounts agree that the initial stop was NOT because of the robbery as you note.  That the conversation between Brown and Wilson ended/lulled and the radio released new info with a description which matched Brown which re-intensified the conversation/interaction into an altercation.  But I yield again, that is the most favorable way of forming the events to Wilson, and built on the horribly shoddy release of info by the police.

The police's release of information is intentionally shoddy (and totally nonexistent except for the robbery video) as they wait to see which narrative can best be supported and will lead to the best outcome for Wilson and their department.

I'll disagree with the nefarious nature of these releases, I just see incompetence.  I think its supported by the fact the cops were slow to release very damaging info for the Brown story.

So you think cops are complete idiots.  I agree in that the job is usually filled by those who cannot even make it into the infantry but I still think at the higher levels of a major metro PD they know how to control the release of info and the robbery video being intentionally provided almost immediately shows they are trying to control the flow of info.  It's cool to disagree though. 

[michigancat]

CNS last page i posted a huff po link with a police presser.  in it the Chief gave a brief, poorly organized timeline.  The cop *could* have heard the suspect description right before the fatal confrontation occurred. 

Also as I noted the most favorable accounts to the officer point towards the j-walking stop. Some brief pause or break in contact, possibly coinciding with the radio call, and the resulting series of altercations which led to the shooting and death of Mr. Brown.

KC radio said that from the police dept's own release that the officer didn't know.

The issue which has been raised, and rightly so because of the terribly unorganized release of info, is what the officer knew and when.  The most favorable accounts agree that the initial stop was NOT because of the robbery as you note.  That the conversation between Brown and Wilson ended/lulled and the radio released new info with a description which matched Brown which re-intensified the conversation/interaction into an altercation.  But I yield again, that is the most favorable way of forming the events to Wilson, and built on the horribly shoddy release of info by the police.

The police's release of information is intentionally shoddy (and totally nonexistent except for the robbery video) as they wait to see which narrative can best be supported and will lead to the best outcome for Wilson and their department.

I'll disagree with the nefarious nature of these releases, I just see incompetence.  I think its supported by the fact the cops were slow to release very damaging info for the Brown story.

I think having an officer killing an unarmed teenager who was jaywalking is also pretty good evidence of department incompetence.

[ednksu]

CNS last page i posted a huff po link with a police presser.  in it the Chief gave a brief, poorly organized timeline.  The cop *could* have heard the suspect description right before the fatal confrontation occurred. 

Also as I noted the most favorable accounts to the officer point towards the j-walking stop. Some brief pause or break in contact, possibly coinciding with the radio call, and the resulting series of altercations which led to the shooting and death of Mr. Brown.

KC radio said that from the police dept's own release that the officer didn't know.

The issue which has been raised, and rightly so because of the terribly unorganized release of info, is what the officer knew and when.  The most favorable accounts agree that the initial stop was NOT because of the robbery as you note.  That the conversation between Brown and Wilson ended/lulled and the radio released new info with a description which matched Brown which re-intensified the conversation/interaction into an altercation.  But I yield again, that is the most favorable way of forming the events to Wilson, and built on the horribly shoddy release of info by the police.

The police's release of information is intentionally shoddy (and totally nonexistent except for the robbery video) as they wait to see which narrative can best be supported and will lead to the best outcome for Wilson and their department.

I'll disagree with the nefarious nature of these releases, I just see incompetence.  I think its supported by the fact the cops were slow to release very damaging info for the Brown story.

I think having an officer killing an unarmed teenager who was jaywalking is also pretty good evidence of department incompetence.

yeah because more facts haven't changed that narrative.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The unwillingness to acknowledge that Brown did something more than just cross the street at an unmarked intersection is a stunning indictment of how close-minded and uninformed many of the Pit posters are. 

A cop tells you to get out of the street, you get the eff out of the street. You don't crack his skull with your fist.

[michigancat]

I think having an officer killing an unarmed teenager who was jaywalking is also pretty good evidence of department incompetence.

yeah because more facts haven't changed that narrative.

the facts still point to incompetence

[ednksu]

I think having an officer killing an unarmed teenager who was jaywalking is also pretty good evidence of department incompetence.

yeah because more facts haven't changed that narrative.

the facts still point to incompetence

Seriously, how madly do you need to get beaten before its justified?