Israel - Hamas peace process

[Emo EMAW]

Mark me in the camp that is upset we give billions of dollars in military aid to Israel.

There probably wouldn't be an Israel without it.

Yea, so?

Thank you, HitlerisInnocent.

I mean, not thinking that the Jewish people should have their own state in the Middle East carved out and propped up by the Western Powers is in no way the same as advocating for their genocide.

I like how you shaved off the ends of your mustache but left the middle. 

I'm just teasing.     

Oh hey, like what you've done with the showers.   

( )

[SdK]

http://www.stophamasnow.com/

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

While the White House has everyone looking the other direction.....

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4560337,00.html

Heavy barrage of rockets fired at Tel Aviv area, southern Israel

Hamas says it fired 40 rockets, claims responsibility for firing M-75 and Fajr-5 rockets at central Israel, J-80 missile at Ben Gurion Airport.

[Kat Kid]

Is anyone else confused about what exactly was accomplished by all of this from either side's perspective?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.612637

Without a formal discussion, without a vote, in laconic telephone updates with members of the security cabinet – that is how the government of Israel under Benjamin Netanyahu in August 2014 approved a cease-fire agreement with a terror organization. The same Benjamin Netanyahu who ran for election five years ago, after Operation Cast Lead, on the platform that the mission had not been accomplished, that Hamas rule had to be destroyed and that he was the only one who could do it.

Netanyahu's conduct during the 50 days of fighting in Gaza highlighted the gap between his statements and promises and the reality. The prime minister, who was the most strident in his statement against Hamas, ended the confrontation with the organization in the weakest position. All he wanted was to achieve a cease-fire at just about any price. When the opportunity came, he simply grabbed it and ran.

The Egyptian cease-fire proposal that Israel accepted on Tuesday did not deliver a single achievement. The only thing that the prime minister's spokesmen could boast about on Tuesday was the denial of achievements to Hamas, such as the dissolution of its demands for a sea port, an airport and salary payments. But all those demands will be raised during the negotiations with Hamas that will resume in Cairo next week.

In return for unlimited quiet, Israel agreed to immediately open the border crossings with Gaza to humanitarian aid and to extend the fishing zone to a distance of six nautical miles. Israel also agreed to the immediate entry of construction materials for the rebuilding of Gaza, without any guarantee from either Egypt or Hamas for the establishment of a monitoring mechanism to ensure that the cement and concrete is not used for the rehabilitation of the tunnels project.

The Egyptian proposal didn't include any statement, not even a hint, regarding Israel's security demands. There was nothing about the demilitarization of the strip, the re-arming or the issue of the tunnels. When reading the thin Egyptian document to which Benjamin Netanyahu agreed, John Kerry's draft – which was rejected by the cabinet with a disdain that bordered on humiliation of the secretary of state – suddenly looks like the proposal of the year.

[michigancat]

Is anyone else confused about what exactly was accomplished by all of this from either side's perspective?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.612637

Without a formal discussion, without a vote, in laconic telephone updates with members of the security cabinet – that is how the government of Israel under Benjamin Netanyahu in August 2014 approved a cease-fire agreement with a terror organization. The same Benjamin Netanyahu who ran for election five years ago, after Operation Cast Lead, on the platform that the mission had not been accomplished, that Hamas rule had to be destroyed and that he was the only one who could do it.

Netanyahu's conduct during the 50 days of fighting in Gaza highlighted the gap between his statements and promises and the reality. The prime minister, who was the most strident in his statement against Hamas, ended the confrontation with the organization in the weakest position. All he wanted was to achieve a cease-fire at just about any price. When the opportunity came, he simply grabbed it and ran.

The Egyptian cease-fire proposal that Israel accepted on Tuesday did not deliver a single achievement. The only thing that the prime minister's spokesmen could boast about on Tuesday was the denial of achievements to Hamas, such as the dissolution of its demands for a sea port, an airport and salary payments. But all those demands will be raised during the negotiations with Hamas that will resume in Cairo next week.

In return for unlimited quiet, Israel agreed to immediately open the border crossings with Gaza to humanitarian aid and to extend the fishing zone to a distance of six nautical miles. Israel also agreed to the immediate entry of construction materials for the rebuilding of Gaza, without any guarantee from either Egypt or Hamas for the establishment of a monitoring mechanism to ensure that the cement and concrete is not used for the rehabilitation of the tunnels project.

The Egyptian proposal didn't include any statement, not even a hint, regarding Israel's security demands. There was nothing about the demilitarization of the strip, the re-arming or the issue of the tunnels. When reading the thin Egyptian document to which Benjamin Netanyahu agreed, John Kerry's draft – which was rejected by the cabinet with a disdain that bordered on humiliation of the secretary of state – suddenly looks like the proposal of the year.

I think more people question Israel's motives than previously.

[Emo EMAW]

At least they destroyed the tunnels.  Also got rid of a bunch of ordinance nearing expiration date.


Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6

[ednksu]

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/22/342318367/hamas-finally-admits-to-kidnapping-and-killing-israeli-teens

[michigancat]

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

It does look like the same girl.

[Rage Against the McKee]

It does look like the same girl.

I don't think it is.

[michigancat]

wrong thread, should have gone to the beheading thread. eff.

[Kat Kid]

82% of white evangelicals think Israel was given to the Jewish people by God compared to 40% of Jews. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/#utm_content=bufferff131&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Cire]

There was a vice or front line about the evangelicals and their support for Israel

[felix rex]

82% of white evangelicals think Israel was given to the Jewish people by God compared to 40% of Jews. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/#utm_content=bufferff131&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

That's interesting, but a little misleading.  "White evangelical Protestant" is a much narrower demographic than "Jew" (or even the broadened "deist Jew").

"Net Jewish" at 40% versus "US general public" at 44% probably provides a more accurate big picture (especially given the 28/11 difference in atheism)

I think the 82/38 difference between W/E/P and Catholic is more interesting.

[michigancat]

The 2% of Christians who don't believe in God at all would be an interesting group.

[michigancat]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

here's another great summary

http://www.clickhole.com/article/conflict-gaza-explained-one-long-noise-978

[Kat Kid]

http://n.pr/1NVcphL

This article does an excellent job of explaining the failed strategic thinking of Netanyahu and the Israeli right wing.  They have painted themselves in to such a corner that now Palestinians openly root for them to win their elections because it increases their own leverage.  The settlements continuously make a two-state solution less and less viable.  Rejecting a two-state solution as Netanyahu and Likud statements suggest is the new vision, leaves few options for a Jewish, democratic state. 

Apartheid, ethnic cleansing or the death of Zionism seem more likely than ever.  Netanyahu looks less than a sure thing in the elections and the Israeli parliament is as fractured as ever, so the coalition will likely be unable to address this looming disaster.

[star seed 7]

Well that's a pretty big bummer

[michigancat]

The guy wanting a one-state solution was interesting.

[Kat Kid]

Yeah it is Israels biggest nightmare.

[michigancat]

 It was just the first time I'd heard it really discussed. I would think Palestinians completely wiping them out would be worse but I can see why they wouldn't like a "rainbow state"

[Kat Kid]

It was just the first time I'd heard it really discussed. I would think Palestinians completely wiping them out would be worse but I can see why they wouldn't like a "rainbow state"

Realistic nightmare.  I mean Iran, Hamas, ISIS etc. are obviously far above it.  But the end of a democratic, Jewish homeland is pretty bad.

[michigancat]

Yeah.

Can you question the wisdom of Zionism without being anti-Semitic? I mean, I would have welcomed the diaspora to the US with open arms 100 years ago. It just doesn't seem like the creation of modern Israel was a very good idea with the luxury of hindsight.

[Kat Kid]

Well this seems problematic to the peace process:

http://www.vox.com/2015/3/16/8226413/netanyahu-palestinian-state

"I think that anyone who is going to establish a Palestinian state today and evacuate lands, is giving attack grounds to the radical Islam against the state of Israel," Netanyahu said (per the New York Times). "Anyone who ignores this is sticking his head in the sand. The left does this time and time again. We are realistic and understand."

According to the Times, Netanyahu left little room for confusion:

Asked if he meant that a Palestinian state would not be established if he were to continue as Israel's prime minister, Mr. Netanyahu replied: "Correct."

[Rage Against the McKee]

The 2% of Christians who don't believe in God at all would be an interesting group.

K-S-U puts Obama into that group.