Author Topic: Israel - Hamas peace process  (Read 55848 times)

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Online sys

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #425 on: May 13, 2021, 09:37:44 PM »
Life changing opinion sys, thank you for showing me the flaw in my opinion.

you can go read the history of how israel came to be.  there's no point in me regurgitating it here for you.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #426 on: May 13, 2021, 09:40:09 PM »
Life changing opinion sys, thank you for showing me the flaw in my opinion.

you can go read the history of how israel came to be.  there's no point in me regurgitating it here for you.

I've posted it twice now, what's your objection

Online sys

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #427 on: May 13, 2021, 09:41:27 PM »
Not sure what about that offended sys's sensibilities.

the creation of israel was a century long effort by zionist jews.  it was not the result of the brits or americans just randomly mandating a country into being post ww2.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #428 on: May 13, 2021, 09:46:07 PM »
This admin told Israel to evict Palestinians from old Jerusalem?

Not Cool Biden!!!


Needs to call the Kush in to settle this ASAP

As usual, you make absolutely no sense.

Every movement of the Biden administration to date has emboldened Iran and by proxy Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad.

It's literal historical Neocons ensuring they would do everything they could to kick the hornets nest.   An open attack on the Abraham Accords would have been politically unpalatable.  So light the wick and then force the Abraham Accord signatories to make a choice.

Just MPOS one and all.




Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #429 on: May 13, 2021, 09:46:37 PM »
Not sure what about that offended sys's sensibilities.

the creation of israel was a century long effort by zionist jews.  it was not the result of the brits or americans just randomly mandating a country into being post ww2.

I absolutely never said random, in fact I think it was quite intentional and intentionally done without the consideration of the majority of the people who lived there.

Offline CNS

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #430 on: May 14, 2021, 11:52:55 AM »
Martyr Made is a really good podcast on the creation of the Israel state. The first 5 anyway. It’s pretty crazy and seemed like a slow mo takeover on the sly with a lot of people lying to each other. It’s interesting and I can imagine infuriating to those closer to it.  Podcast does a really deep dive. Like Hardcore History type dive for anyone interested.

Offline Cire

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #431 on: May 14, 2021, 11:58:26 AM »
Pretty sure the Arabs attacked Israel and Israel lost territory but cemented their independence.  Then used American weapons and intelligence to completely whip ass in 1967 and haven't looked back since then.

Offline LickNeckey

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #432 on: May 14, 2021, 12:36:47 PM »
It is my understanding that this current rift centers around the illegal act of evicting palestinians from old jerusalem.

I fail to see how Biden's policies have inflamed anything.

The situation will continue to devolve in fits and starts as long as Israel pursues illegal settlement of Palestinian lands.

Israel has no interest in accepting a two state solution so sporatic conflict will continue as Israel seeks to formalize total control of Palestinian territories.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #433 on: May 14, 2021, 12:52:16 PM »
It is my understanding that this current rift centers around the illegal act of evicting palestinians from old jerusalem.

I fail to see how Biden's policies have inflamed anything.

The situation will continue to devolve in fits and starts as long as Israel pursues illegal settlement of Palestinian lands.

Israel has no interest in accepting a two state solution so sporatic conflict will continue as Israel seeks to formalize total control of Palestinian territories.

You fail to see it because you are looking at a singular act, while completely missing the big picture policy that's been implemented to date by this administration.   The re-approachment with Iran, the probability of more tarmac cash in Tehran, and the various other things that this administration has done:  The  Lifting the terrorist tag off the Houti's in Yemen, the re-establishment of aid to the Palestinian Authority of which a chunk will most certainly trickle down to the hands of Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad.  The Biden Administration is now clearly saying that for now, they can do whatever they want and the U.S. will still supply them economic aid. 


Offline LickNeckey

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #434 on: May 14, 2021, 02:10:03 PM »
so you are saying that Palestinians feel emboldened to repond to Israeli aggressions because of the Biden admin?

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #435 on: May 14, 2021, 02:28:15 PM »
so you are saying that Palestinians feel emboldened to repond to Israeli aggressions because of the Biden admin?

It's almost like you live in some sort of information vacuum.


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #436 on: May 14, 2021, 02:47:50 PM »
Pretty sure the Arabs attacked Israel and Israel lost territory but cemented their independence.  Then used American weapons and intelligence to completely whip ass in 1967 and haven't looked back since then.

Yes, the Arabs fought the creation of Israel on what was land that they previously occupied.

Offline MadCat

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #437 on: May 14, 2021, 03:56:28 PM »
WWJD?

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #438 on: May 14, 2021, 06:20:10 PM »
Pretty sure the Arabs attacked Israel and Israel lost territory but cemented their independence.  Then used American weapons and intelligence to completely whip ass in 1967 and haven't looked back since then.

Yea they have been whipping ass nonstop for 50 years

Yes, the Arabs fought the creation of Israel on what was land that they previously occupied.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #439 on: May 18, 2021, 12:27:58 AM »
Joe Biden is a weak leader and he's letting a war criminal run roughshod over people forced to stay in strip of land roughly half the size of Riley County. How in the eff does it make sense to bomb apartments to disable the tunnels under ground? Seems like you could avoid a whole lot of civilian deaths by using ground troops to infiltrate and destroy the tunnels.

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #441 on: May 18, 2021, 09:15:37 AM »
The entire existence and foundational principles of the Covenant of Hamas is the total eradication of Israel and by large the total eradication of all Jewish People.  The Palestinian National Charter says the same thing using slightly different words.

Major platforms of both lie in the total and absolute rejection of all overtures of peace and peaceful co-existence.








« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 09:18:57 AM by sonofdaxjones »

Offline MakeItRain

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Online steve dave

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #444 on: August 07, 2022, 11:48:54 AM »
Unlike SteveDave and the rest of #blueanonGe, I will accept the content of these Tweets as likely being valid, and not #deflectobot based on source pearl clutching.


Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #445 on: August 07, 2022, 12:34:48 PM »
Unlike SteveDave and the rest of #blueanonGe, I will accept the content of these Tweets as likely being valid, and not #deflectobot based on source pearl clutching.
How would Israel not know if they bombed a place?

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #446 on: August 07, 2022, 12:53:48 PM »
Unlike SteveDave and the rest of #blueanonGe, I will accept the content of these Tweets as likely being valid, and not #deflectobot based on source pearl clutching.
How would Israel not know if they bombed a place?

That wasn't really the point.

That said, Israel alleges that multiple rockets landed right back on Gaza killing civilians.




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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #448 on: October 09, 2023, 08:43:39 AM »

   Opinion Israeli-Palestinian conflict
A bitter blame game will follow Israel’s wartime unity
The inquest into what went wrong ahead of Hamas’s attack could lead down a dangerous path

GIDEON RACHMAN
Gideon Rachman YESTERDAY

Wars unite nations. The shock and horror of the Hamas attacks on Israel have brought a deeply divided country together. It is possible that Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, may now form a national unity government.

Israeli unity will last a while because this crisis is very far from over. The fate of the hostages inside Gaza, including children and old people, will continue to torment Israel. The government also faces the risk of new fronts opening in the occupied West Bank or on the border with Lebanon. But, fairly soon, Israel will be plunged into a divisive political argument about what went wrong. Two failures will have to be addressed. The first is an intelligence and security failure. The second is strategic.

Israel has long taken pride in its intelligence services. It was generally assumed that nothing much could happen in Gaza without Israel knowing about it. But Hamas was able to plan and execute a complex and multipronged attack and storm across a border that the Israelis thought was secure. In doing so, they carried out the most deadly attacks inside Israel since the foundation of the state in 1948.

Both the right and the centre are primed to blame each other for the intelligence and security failure. (The left barely exists anymore.) As prime minister, Netanyahu is the natural person to blame for what has happened.

The prime minister’s working assumption that the threat from Hamas was contained now looks delusional and complacent. As he struggles to avoid conviction in a corruption case, Netanyahu has also formed a government reliant on parties from the far-right. Those parties have supported increasing aggression by Israeli settlers in the West Bank. Army forces were diverted to the West Bank to contain the resulting violence — which weakened the country’s defences on the border with Gaza.

The Israeli right and far-right, however, have a counter-narrative ready. They are prepared to blame the opposition and intelligence establishment for weakening the security of the country.

In recent months, there have been huge anti-government demonstrations — protesting against judicial reforms pushed by Netanyahu that the opposition say threaten Israel’s democracy. Some senior figures from the security world have supported these demonstrations, and many Israeli reservists have been refusing to report for duty.

When the head of Shin Bet, the Israeli domestic intelligence service, warned Netanyahu earlier this year that deadly attacks by settlers on Palestinians would increase the security threat to Israel, he was roundly denounced by members of Netanyahu’s Likud party. One Likud member of parliament complained: “The ideology of the left has reached the top echelons of the Shin Bet. The deep state has infiltrated the leadership of the Shin Bet and the IDF.”

The far-right will certainly repeat those kinds of arguments in the coming weeks, as they press for vengeance against Hamas. But Israel’s inquest will have to go well beyond the immediate intelligence and security failure — profound though that is. Netanyahu’s entire strategy towards the Palestinians now looks like a failure.

This essentially involved containing and “shrinking” the conflict with the Palestinians — while providing security to Israeli citizens, building the economy and normalising relations with Arab states. Netanyahu believed that Israel could cope with occasional rocket attacks and live with international condemnation of Israel’s blockade of Gaza.

The Israeli leader rejected the argument that Israel would never be accepted in the Middle East until it made peace with the Palestinians. He argued instead that establishing normal relations with Israel’s Arab neighbours would help to bring internal peace — by cutting off external support for the Palestinians.

This plan was gathering momentum — with growing talk that Israel and Saudi Arabia were on the brink of establishing diplomatic relations. But that normalisation is now likely to be put on hold. While much western coverage of the crisis will focus on the horrors perpetrated by Hamas, the focus in the Middle East is likely to be on the suffering of Palestinians caught up in the Israeli strikes on Gaza. In that climate, it is likely to be impossible to conclude an Israel-Saudi deal.

However while Netanyahu’s Palestine strategy has fallen apart, it is far from clear what can replace it. In the current climate of grief and fury inside Israel, it is inevitable that the government will embrace a ferocious military response. But the Israeli government does not yet have any vision that goes beyond killing Hamas leaders.

Over the long term, it is hard to believe that Israel can any longer accept Hamas’s control of Gaza. But although there is plenty of talk of sending the Israeli army back into Gaza, that looks like a trap. As the academic Lawrence Freedman points out, the army “neither has the capacity nor the staying power to take control of Gaza. This remains a territory of 2 million people, and as they have nowhere else to go, they will stay, still angry.”

The shock and fury in Israel are reminiscent of the emotions in the US after 9/11. That provoked a display of American unity and power. It also led to a decade-long “war on terror” — which many Americans now regard as misconceived and self-destructive. Israel may be heading down the same dangerous path.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #449 on: October 09, 2023, 03:34:17 PM »
Nice article. It's a shame that the phenomenon of continuing to dig into political polarization, even in the face of the most extreme violence, is the way of the world now for western governments. The appetite for gaining and keeping power has become more important than doing what's best for the people who the government are tasked with protecting.