Author Topic: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???  (Read 7216 times)

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Offline nicname

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Dude was either 1st or 2nd in conference for 11-straight seasons, but was absolutely putrid — like Wooly bad — his last four seasons.

 :dunno:


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Offline KSUJIM

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2014, 08:28:28 AM »
The game passed him by...Billy Tubbs came in and totally changed Big 8 basketball...Jack didn't adjust.

The tourney expanded, TV became big, the game really moved forward, recruits wanted an up tempo game.

Recruiting got tougher...Jack quit and went to Okie State for 2 days....came back and never got the magic totally back.

Just missed out on some big time recruits (Albert King for example) that would have extended the Rolando Blackman great years and then recruiting tanked. 

Offline Deez Nutz

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2014, 08:43:35 AM »
The game passed him by...Billy Tubbs came in and totally changed Big 8 basketball...Jack didn't adjust.

The tourney expanded, TV became big, the game really moved forward, recruits wanted an up tempo game.

Recruiting got tougher...Jack quit and went to Okie State for 2 days....came back and never got the magic totally back.

Just missed out on some big time recruits (Albert King for example) that would have extended the Rolando Blackman great years and then recruiting tanked.

I never heard that he quit and went to OSU for 2 days before.  You mean it was similar to Gene Stephenson at WSU when he accepted the OU job and then got cold feet and came back to WSU hours after his introductory press conference? 


Offline Deez Nutz

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2014, 09:36:46 AM »
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793



Tom

Thanks for posting that.  Also LOL at the tiny coaching salaries back then: 

"Floyd Gass, Oklahoma State Athletic Director, said Hartman would receive a five-year contract for $35,000 a year."

 :lol:

Online puniraptor

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2014, 09:37:35 AM »
Didn't know that either. Fascinating.

Offline ben ji

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2014, 09:41:19 AM »
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793



Tom

Thanks for posting that.  Also LOL at the tiny coaching salaries back then: 

"Floyd Gass, Oklahoma State Athletic Director, said Hartman would receive a five-year contract for $35,000 a year."

 :lol:

Adjusted for inflation that would only be $138,000 a year.

Offline Frankenklein

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2014, 09:45:33 AM »
The town was in shock when he announced he was going to OSU.


Offline Deez Nutz

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2014, 10:05:34 AM »
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793



Tom

Thanks for posting that.  Also LOL at the tiny coaching salaries back then: 

"Floyd Gass, Oklahoma State Athletic Director, said Hartman would receive a five-year contract for $35,000 a year."

 :lol:

Adjusted for inflation that would only be $138,000 a year.

Yeah to offer that to a guy who just won the Big 8 title (both regular season and tournament) that seems like it would be an insult.  Good thing T. Boone was not yet on the scene for OSU.  Remember in 2008 when he was going after Bill Self?  According to this report they were offering $4 million per year with a $6 million signing bonus.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/46115-billionaire-osu-booster-wants-self

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2014, 10:11:13 AM »
He was at Saluki too?!?!  OMG is oscar Jack.2???

Also, 4 E8s and 2 S16s in 10 years :love:
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd



Offline kim carnes

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2014, 10:28:56 AM »
Tom is easily the best poster on this board.   

Offline KST8FAN

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2014, 11:11:36 AM »
I think most forget this 1977 episode because Jack Hartman had some great teams after that along with the tourney upset of Oregon State on Blackmon's iconic jumper.

Along with Tubbs joining the conference we swept KU in the 82-83 season (my freshman year) which led to the exit of Ted Owens and the hiring of Larry Brown.  He had KU in the final four within three years.


Tom
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 11:27:26 AM by KST8FAN »

Offline TownieCat

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2014, 12:09:28 PM »
Tom is easily the best poster on this board.

Offline bozocat

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2014, 12:13:19 PM »
Mark Reiner was the recruiter who got Blackman and Curtis Redding and barely missed on Albert King.  Once he left, our recruiting really fell off the cliff.  It was all DITR after that.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2014, 12:18:11 PM »
Very interesting, guys. Reiner's statement when leaving was kind of strange:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19780407&id=a0MyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=beYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5682,1251808

Offline michigancat

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Offline EMAWzified

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2014, 12:32:40 PM »
He had some of his best years after the Okie State thing, although he never won another regular season league title. I think the 1980 team that lost to national champion Louisville in the tournament was his best and could have gone all the away. Team basically had the Big 8 wrapped up with road victories at Missouri and Lawrence before it was struck by injuries. Got healthy and won the post season tourney but ended up with low enough seed they had to play Louisville early.

The decline wasn't so much about recruiting but failing to keep young players on the team. rough ridin' combover Purdue coach and his squeaky assistant stole point guard Reed (Reid?) who went on to become two-time Big 10 player of the year (maybe it would have helped had Hartman played him a little bit during, especially with the injuries) and two 6-8ish forwards, who went on to have fine careers at like MAC schools.

That meant he had to rebuild when Tubbs, Norm Stewart were in their prime and Larry Brown arrived in Lawrence. Then he started having heart trouble. I think he began to believe he could spot DITR and win, after all he had done it dating back to Walt Frazier. But without a superstar like Evans or Blackman, the guys he brought in couldn't get it done.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2014, 12:38:35 PM »
Very interesting, guys. Reiner's statement when leaving was kind of strange:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19780407&id=a0MyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=beYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5682,1251808

Yeah, that doesn't sound like it ended well.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2014, 12:41:26 PM »
Also never realized Redding was a "package deal".

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2014, 12:42:46 PM »
Also never realized Redding was a "package deal".

Hartman was a smart recruiter. Had his own Dalonte and everything.

Offline EMAWzified

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2014, 12:44:41 PM »
http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1093227/2/index.htm#top

Actually did beat them the next three three times we played that year (1977) on the way to winning the regular and postseason titles. Fun times. FWIW, that KU team was one of the ugliest in the history of the game (shudder).

Reiner went on to be the head coach at (I think) Manhattan for a few years. Reiner was obviously interested in the K-State job but the word was K-State was ready to bring in alum Mark Gottfried of North Carolina before Hartman had a change of heart about OSU. 

Offline michigancat

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