Author Topic: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???  (Read 7701 times)

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Offline Brock Landers

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2014, 04:20:41 PM »
I'm glad there are enough old farts on this blog to provide these mini history lessons.

Offline kynard_fan

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2014, 06:37:25 PM »
I'm glad there are enough old farts on this blog to provide these mini history lessons.

Yeah, that Tom guy is kind of an old fart, but his memory of Hartman (and the heart attack) appears to be spot on.


http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/642923/

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2014, 11:23:33 PM »
Contrary to what others have said here Jack absolutely hated the process of recruiting. He inherited the Kruger team when he came to Manhatten in 1970, Fitzimmons had done every thing but sign them (Lonnie, Danny Beard, Steve Mitchell and Ernie Kushner, who made up the core of the 73 and 74 championship teams), Doug Snyder who was the star of the 75 team when he was a senior originally was recruited to Manhattan as a QB by Vince Gibson, I think Chuckie Williams and Mike Evans may have come to Manhattan partially due to the efforts of Clyde Frazier , who was close to Hartman from his playing days at SIU,and partially because of Hartman's reputation of using and developing guards. I definitely know that Clyde was the reasons that Redding and Ro Blackman came to KSU, Tim Jankovich's first wife was one of Hartman's daughter's and they had been a couple since Jr. High but Jank originally took a scholarship to the University of Washington, then came back to Manhattan and sat out a year . Jack liked to coach/teach, look what he did to make Blackman a two time All-American and Ed Nealy had one of the worst cases of "White Man's Desease" I have ever seen on a BB court at that level, had no business playing D-1 BB let alone having a 13 year NBA career, but after Chuck Garret, who was the recruiter that came with Coach Hartman from SIU was killed in a car wreck coming back from a recruiting trip and Reinert after him and Ro Blackman left, Jack did not have any one to work with.

Not many periods in that sort of run-on post. Please edit and re-post. TIA.

Agreed. I'm very interested in what it actually means.

P.S. Great thread. I love crap like this. Hey cat hoop youngsters: did you know the women's team at Kazzu apparently used to be known as the Wild Kittens? I mean what in the world.
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

Offline EMAWzified

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2014, 12:06:39 AM »
Bill Guthridge was the connection for Evans to KSU, Guthridge was a former cat who was an asst. for Tex and then Dean Smith

Yes, exactly. He also would have been hired as head coach had Hartman actually went to Okie State. In hindsight, this might have been a great thing.

Offline The Odd Get Even

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2014, 02:14:40 PM »
True story:  Jack Hartman is a native of Dewey, OK, about an hour away from Okie State, where Hartman played collegiate basketball.  Hartman always had an affinity for the Pokes.

Offline 75cat

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2014, 03:31:35 PM »
True story:  Jack Hartman is a native of Dewey, OK, about an hour away from Okie State, where Hartman played collegiate basketball.  Hartman always had an affinity for the Pokes.
Although at this point it probably is just nit-piking but I once worked with a fellow who said his father went to HS with Jack at I thought Shidler OK, which  is on the East side of Kaw Lake on the highway South of Dexter.  Shidler is 100-150 miles West of Dewey but is about an hour from Stillwater while it may be 1-2 hours from Dewey to Stillwater.  Again, I think, but not positive, he was recruited to OSU to play FB and his first job out of college was as an assistant to Coach Iba for the Cowboys BB team, but I cannot remember if Jack actually played basket ball in college.

This is another old geezer story: before he went to Coffey JC, where he won a National JC BB championship, in the 1950's Jack was the HS BB coach at either Plainville or Phillipsburg (one of the "P" towns North of Hays). Can anyone verify that fact and what town it was?

Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2014, 03:46:28 PM »
I'm enjoying this thread.

Jack had 295 wins at KSU.  Given his background in rural Oklahoma, do you think it bothered him that he never got to 300?

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Offline The Odd Get Even

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2014, 04:17:01 PM »
True story:  Jack Hartman is a native of Dewey, OK, about an hour away from Okie State, where Hartman played collegiate basketball.  Hartman always had an affinity for the Pokes.
Although at this point it probably is just nit-piking but I once worked with a fellow who said his father went to HS with Jack at I thought Shidler OK, which  is on the East side of Kaw Lake on the highway South of Dexter.  Shidler is 100-150 miles West of Dewey but is about an hour from Stillwater while it may be 1-2 hours from Dewey to Stillwater.  Again, I think, but not positive, he was recruited to OSU to play FB and his first job out of college was as an assistant to Coach Iba for the Cowboys BB team, but I cannot remember if Jack actually played basket ball in college.

This is another old geezer story: before he went to Coffey JC, where he won a National JC BB championship, in the 1950's Jack was the HS BB coach at either Plainville or Phillipsburg (one of the "P" towns North of Hays). Can anyone verify that fact and what town it was?

http://www.fanbase.com/Jack-Hartman
Don't know if reliable, but has Jack Hartman playing BB at Oklahoma State.  You may be right about the hometown, I heard Dewey somewhere.  Dewey was memorable because it had the only x-rated theater within 100 miles, and it was cool to sneak in with a fake ID back before Internet porn.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2014, 09:37:54 PM »
Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.

A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:


Offline nicname

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2014, 12:33:49 AM »
Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.

A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:



Was he good? I remember thinking he was pretty good, or was going to be pretty good. I remember he was part of the "#1 ranked recruiting class." Maybe that was another class.
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Offline KST8FAN

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2014, 02:23:09 AM »
My high school counselor was Lon Krueger's high school basketball coach at Silver Lake.  As such he used to get to watch practice during Lon's days at K-State.  He said Jack would grab guys by the ear to make sure he had their attention when talking to them.  Told a story once about how if they won on the road they ate at the best restaurant on the return home.  If they lost, hamburgers on the bus.

I remember him doing some color after retirement.  Enjoyed him doing the 95 KSU v KU football game on Wildcat Network with Mitch.

Tom

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2014, 06:24:50 AM »
Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.

A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:



Was he good? I remember thinking he was pretty good, or was going to be pretty good. I remember he was part of the "#1 ranked recruiting class." Maybe that was another class.

He was top 100 in multiple rankings coming out of high school.

That was the "#1 class" with him, Cartier, Lance Harris, Massey, Justin Williams, Tyler Hughes, and Dramane Diarra.

Offline EMAWzified

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2014, 10:10:02 AM »
Would take a Martin and Massey any year.

Online michigancat

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2014, 10:52:39 AM »
Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.

A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:



Was he good? I remember thinking he was pretty good, or was going to be pretty good. I remember he was part of the "#1 ranked recruiting class." Maybe that was another class.

He was top 100 in multiple rankings coming out of high school.

That was the "#1 class" with him, Cartier, Lance Harris, Massey, Justin Williams, Tyler Hughes, and Dramane Diarra.

That was an outstanding class - I'd be thrilled with it now. Dez had injury issues and Jim was scared to play him. I remember trolling the phog with a screencap of Dez being in first place in the Big 12 in A:TO ratio in conference games.

:lol:


Didn't realize he left SMU and played a year at UNT

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/north-texas/dez-willingham

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2014, 11:04:39 AM »
Dez and Cartier both had injury issues their FR year which didn't help Wooly much (and also probably bought him more time).

http://cjonline.com/stories/010904/cat_martin.shtml

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2014, 11:16:24 AM »
Going from

KANSAS
   20
STATE


to

K-State
   20


on the jerseys was like the best day ever.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2014, 11:17:33 AM »
Dez and Cartier both had injury issues their FR year which didn't help Wooly much (and also probably bought him more time).

http://cjonline.com/stories/010904/cat_martin.shtml

Dez was in that awkward group who were good but then would transfer away from Wooly. For all his niceness he couldn't keep players at all. Fred Pete, Dez, Nick Williams, etc

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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2014, 11:41:17 AM »
Nick Williams was really good. Remember the Kelvin Sampson tampering rumors? :lol:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nick-williams-3.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nick-williams-1.html

Yeah, dirty Sampson.

Williams was a bit like Foster in that he wasn't a really high profile recruit, but came in and played really well. It killed me when he left, the toughest of the Wooly transfers. Fred was probably a close 2nd.

Offline Bill Clarahan

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2014, 11:44:36 AM »
Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.

A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:



Was he good? I remember thinking he was pretty good, or was going to be pretty good. I remember he was part of the "#1 ranked recruiting class." Maybe that was another class.

He was top 100 in multiple rankings coming out of high school.

That was the "#1 class" with him, Cartier, Lance Harris, Massey, Justin Williams, Tyler Hughes, and Dramane Diarra.


Wooly didn't do crap with that group

Hell you could have taken that group to at least an NIT

Offline Deez Nutz

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #70 on: January 23, 2014, 11:53:43 AM »
Bill Guthridge was the connection for Evans to KSU, Guthridge was a former cat who was an asst. for Tex and then Dean Smith

Yes, exactly. He also would have been hired as head coach had Hartman actually went to Okie State. In hindsight, this might have been a great thing.

Yes, considering that after Dean Smith retired in 1997, Guthridge became head coach at North Carolina for three seasons and took them to two final fours.  Also he was named national coach of the year in 1998.

Online tdaver

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #71 on: January 23, 2014, 10:26:33 PM »
Does anyone but me remember him stepping in and coaching women's BB when their coach was forced out?

I remember when the AD asked Jack to come out of retirement and coach the woman's BB team after the woman's coach was fired during the season for what were deemed to be NCAA violations.  Not sure what his record was with the woman's team that part of a year he coached but having had a National COY on the bench could have only been a positive

My M-I-L played ball for the lady Cats during Jack's early years at KSU.  She told me that she was shocked when they asked Jack to coach the women because (at least while she was there) he absolutely hated the women's team and was vocal about it, especially when their practice/playing schedule got in the way of his teams.

On another note, here's a book about the Jack Gardner years for those interested in KSU basketball history.  Gave it to my dad if few years ago.  Lot's of great stories in it.
http://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Basketball-Kansas-State-University/dp/1585974358


 

Offline KSUJIM

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2014, 10:44:31 PM »
True story:  Jack Hartman is a native of Dewey, OK, about an hour away from Okie State, where Hartman played collegiate basketball.  Hartman always had an affinity for the Pokes.


Jack played QB and was a kicker at OSU...up until the Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders years and beyond Jack was in the top ten rushers in OSU history if I remember correctly.  The skoal spokesman that played for the Dallas Cowboys..."Just a pinch between my cheek and gum..." Walt Garrison was, I believe, the top rusher at that time.

Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2014, 10:32:25 AM »

On another note, here's a book about the Jack Gardner years for those interested in KSU basketball history.  Gave it to my dad if few years ago.  Lot's of great stories in it.
http://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Basketball-Kansas-State-University/dp/1585974358


Thanks for the link, honestly didn't know this book existed.
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Offline nicname

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Re: Question for bball historians: Why did Hartman stink after 1981-82???
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2014, 11:05:01 PM »
Did you know?

K-State played a nearly annual series with Indiana between 1947 and 1970. I guess Branch McCracken and Jack G/ Tex W. were buds, Cotton F. too. I wonder why they stopped in 1971.  Maybe Bob Knight and Jack H. weren't buds. They did start playing again in 1980, but K-State couldn't beat them.  Indiana was really good most of that time, but KSU starting to be crappy after 82 probably had more to do with that. 

Pretty cool "rivalry" that they had going for awhile.

Scores from the Indiana Media Guide, so an L is a K-State win.

12/14/36 W 60-33 Bloomington

12/15/47 L 53-61 Manhattan

12/16/48 W 56-36 Bloomington

12/16/51 W 58-52 Manhattan

12/22/52 W 80-75 Bloomington

12/13/52 L 80-82 Manhattan

12/7/53 W 92-66 Bloomington

12/21/54 L 74-91 Manhattan

12/10/55 W 96-72 Bloomington

12/15/56 L 77-84 Manhattan

12/7/57 L 61-66 Bloomington

12/6/58 L 79-82 Manhattan

12/14/59 W 67-58 Bloomington

12/5/60 W 98-80 Manhattan

12/9/61 L 78-88 Bloomington

12/21/62 L 72-88 Manhattan

12/9/63 L 84-93 Bloomington

12/5/64 W 74-70 Manhattan

12/13/65 L 76-103 Bloomington

12/13/66 L 69-82 Manhattan

12/11/67 W 89-83 Bloomington

12/9/68 L 83-87* Manhattan

12/8/69 W 102-95 Bloomington

12/5/70 W 75-72 Manhattan

12/23/80 W 51-44 Manhattan

12/19/81 W 58-49 Bloomington

12/18/82 W 48-46 Manhattan

12/21/83 W 56-53* Bloomington

12/22/84 W 70-58 Manhattan

12/10/85 W 78-71 Bloomington

11/23/98 W 71-70 Lahaina, Maui   <---- This game made young nicname super sad.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 11:24:28 PM by nicname »
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.