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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: nicname on January 18, 2014, 02:52:53 AM
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Dude was either 1st or 2nd in conference for 11-straight seasons, but was absolutely putrid — like Wooly bad — his last four seasons.
:dunno:
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The game passed him by...Billy Tubbs came in and totally changed Big 8 basketball...Jack didn't adjust.
The tourney expanded, TV became big, the game really moved forward, recruits wanted an up tempo game.
Recruiting got tougher...Jack quit and went to Okie State for 2 days....came back and never got the magic totally back.
Just missed out on some big time recruits (Albert King for example) that would have extended the Rolando Blackman great years and then recruiting tanked.
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The game passed him by...Billy Tubbs came in and totally changed Big 8 basketball...Jack didn't adjust.
The tourney expanded, TV became big, the game really moved forward, recruits wanted an up tempo game.
Recruiting got tougher...Jack quit and went to Okie State for 2 days....came back and never got the magic totally back.
Just missed out on some big time recruits (Albert King for example) that would have extended the Rolando Blackman great years and then recruiting tanked.
I never heard that he quit and went to OSU for 2 days before. You mean it was similar to Gene Stephenson at WSU when he accepted the OU job and then got cold feet and came back to WSU hours after his introductory press conference?
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793)
Tom
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793)
Tom
Thanks for posting that. Also LOL at the tiny coaching salaries back then:
"Floyd Gass, Oklahoma State Athletic Director, said Hartman would receive a five-year contract for $35,000 a year."
:lol:
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Didn't know that either. Fascinating.
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793)
Tom
Thanks for posting that. Also LOL at the tiny coaching salaries back then:
"Floyd Gass, Oklahoma State Athletic Director, said Hartman would receive a five-year contract for $35,000 a year."
:lol:
Adjusted for inflation that would only be $138,000 a year.
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The town was in shock when he announced he was going to OSU.
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793)
Tom
POKE OUTED!!!!!!!!!!
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793)
Tom
Thanks for posting that. Also LOL at the tiny coaching salaries back then:
"Floyd Gass, Oklahoma State Athletic Director, said Hartman would receive a five-year contract for $35,000 a year."
:lol:
Adjusted for inflation that would only be $138,000 a year.
Yeah to offer that to a guy who just won the Big 8 title (both regular season and tournament) that seems like it would be an insult. Good thing T. Boone was not yet on the scene for OSU. Remember in 2008 when he was going after Bill Self? According to this report they were offering $4 million per year with a $6 million signing bonus.
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/46115-billionaire-osu-booster-wants-self (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/46115-billionaire-osu-booster-wants-self)
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He was at Saluki too?!?! OMG is oscar Jack.2???
Also, 4 E8s and 2 S16s in 10 years :love:
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793)
Tom
POKE OUTED!!!!!!!!!!
Me? No.
Tom
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GbcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6999%2C3276452)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cJsfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1263%2C2995793)
Tom
POKE OUTED!!!!!!!!!!
Me? No.
Tom
No. Hartman!
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Tom is easily the best poster on this board.
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I think most forget this 1977 episode because Jack Hartman had some great teams after that along with the tourney upset of Oregon State on Blackmon's iconic jumper.
Along with Tubbs joining the conference we swept KU in the 82-83 season (my freshman year) which led to the exit of Ted Owens and the hiring of Larry Brown. He had KU in the final four within three years.
Tom
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Tom is easily the best poster on this board.
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Mark Reiner was the recruiter who got Blackman and Curtis Redding and barely missed on Albert King. Once he left, our recruiting really fell off the cliff. It was all DITR after that.
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Very interesting, guys. Reiner's statement when leaving was kind of strange:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19780407&id=a0MyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=beYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5682,1251808
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http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1093227/2/index.htm#top
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He had some of his best years after the Okie State thing, although he never won another regular season league title. I think the 1980 team that lost to national champion Louisville in the tournament was his best and could have gone all the away. Team basically had the Big 8 wrapped up with road victories at Missouri and Lawrence before it was struck by injuries. Got healthy and won the post season tourney but ended up with low enough seed they had to play Louisville early.
The decline wasn't so much about recruiting but failing to keep young players on the team. rough ridin' combover Purdue coach and his squeaky assistant stole point guard Reed (Reid?) who went on to become two-time Big 10 player of the year (maybe it would have helped had Hartman played him a little bit during, especially with the injuries) and two 6-8ish forwards, who went on to have fine careers at like MAC schools.
That meant he had to rebuild when Tubbs, Norm Stewart were in their prime and Larry Brown arrived in Lawrence. Then he started having heart trouble. I think he began to believe he could spot DITR and win, after all he had done it dating back to Walt Frazier. But without a superstar like Evans or Blackman, the guys he brought in couldn't get it done.
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Very interesting, guys. Reiner's statement when leaving was kind of strange:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19780407&id=a0MyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=beYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5682,1251808
Yeah, that doesn't sound like it ended well.
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Also never realized Redding was a "package deal".
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Also never realized Redding was a "package deal".
Hartman was a smart recruiter. Had his own Dalonte and everything.
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http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1093227/2/index.htm#top
Actually did beat them the next three three times we played that year (1977) on the way to winning the regular and postseason titles. Fun times. FWIW, that KU team was one of the ugliest in the history of the game (shudder).
Reiner went on to be the head coach at (I think) Manhattan for a few years. Reiner was obviously interested in the K-State job but the word was K-State was ready to bring in alum Mark Gottfried of North Carolina before Hartman had a change of heart about OSU.
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1906&dat=19781130&id=qNchAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bZ8FAAAAIBAJ&pg=5516,6165619
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Transfer to St. Johns didn't turn out well for Redding. Lou Carnesecca didn't give him the playing time freedom Hartman did.
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After the recruiters left, one of Jack's lead recruiters was Lon Kruger. :flush:
Lon couldn't sell a semi-truck of Evian in the Sahara.
Some of the players K-State was talking to (and I saw it with my own eyes) couldn't even make it at William Jewell.
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I think Lon could of put us in the Final Four and won multiple league titles if he would have stayed.
Dude has had some runs with every college team he has ever coached.
I don't think the losing streak to KU would have ever been as large if Lon would have been around.
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I think Lon could of put us in the Final Four and won multiple league titles if he would have stayed.
Dude has had some runs with every college team he has ever coached.
I don't think the losing streak to KU would have ever been as large if Lon would have been around.
It was at 2 when he left FWIW.
Lon was 4-8 against KU.
February 4, 1987 Kansas 80-75 ** Manhattan
February 19, 1987 Kansas 84-67 Lawrence
January 30, 1988 K-State 72-61 Lawrence
February 18, 1988 Kansas 64-63 Manhattan
March 12, 1988 K-State 69-54 + Kansas City, Mo.
March 27, 1988 Kansas 71-58 † Pontiac, Mich.
January 14, 1989 Kansas 75-74 * Manhattan
January 28, 1989 K-State 71-70 Lawrence
March 10, 1989 K-State 73-65 Kansas City, Mo.
January 27, 1990 Kansas 85-57 Manhattan
February 24, 1990 Kansas 70-58 Lawrence
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don't forget he got The Sarge
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I think Lon could of put us in the Final Four and won multiple league titles if he would have stayed.
Dude has had some runs with every college team he has ever coached.
I don't think the losing streak to KU would have ever been as large if Lon would have been around.
It was at 2 when he left FWIW.
Lon was 4-8 against KU.
February 4, 1987 Kansas 80-75 ** Manhattan
February 19, 1987 Kansas 84-67 Lawrence
January 30, 1988 K-State 72-61 Lawrence
February 18, 1988 Kansas 64-63 Manhattan
March 12, 1988 K-State 69-54 + Kansas City, Mo.
March 27, 1988 Kansas 71-58 † Pontiac, Mich.
January 14, 1989 Kansas 75-74 * Manhattan
January 28, 1989 K-State 71-70 Lawrence
March 10, 1989 K-State 73-65 Kansas City, Mo.
January 27, 1990 Kansas 85-57 Manhattan
February 24, 1990 Kansas 70-58 Lawrence
I don't think he would have gotten the streak up into the 20s.
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Hell, KSU basketball would have been much better off if they had merely kept Dana, as disgusting as that thought might be.
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Contrary to what others have said here Jack absolutely hated the process of recruiting. He inherited the Kruger team when he came to Manhatten in 1970, Fitzimmons had done every thing but sign them (Lonnie, Danny Beard, Steve Mitchell and Ernie Kushner, who made up the core of the 73 and 74 championship teams), Doug Snyder who was the star of the 75 team when he was a senior originally was recruited to Manhattan as a QB by Vince Gibson, I think Chuckie Williams and Mike Evans may have come to Manhattan partially due to the efforts of Clyde Frazier , who was close to Hartman from his playing days at SIU,and partially because of Hartman's reputation of using and developing guards. I definitely know that Clyde was the reasons that Redding and Ro Blackman came to KSU, Tim Jankovich's first wife was one of Hartman's daughter's and they had been a couple since Jr. High but Jank originally took a scholarship to the University of Washington, then came back to Manhattan and sat out a year . Jack liked to coach/teach, look what he did to make Blackman a two time All-American and Ed Nealy had one of the worst cases of "White Man's Desease" I have ever seen on a BB court at that level, had no business playing D-1 BB let alone having a 13 year NBA career, but after Chuck Garret, who was the recruiter that came with Coach Hartman from SIU was killed in a car wreck coming back from a recruiting trip and Reinert after him and Ro Blackman left, Jack did not have any one to work with.
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" Doug Snyder who was the star of the 75 team . . ."
You're kidding right? He was the Spradling on the team, a player you could rely to not screw up too much. He was a cog on a team with Evans, Williams and Gerlach.
Evans came to K-State because of Dean Smith's desire to get him out of the ACC once he'd recruited Phil Ford. http://themercury.com/articles/mike-evans-learns-years-later-how-he-was-recruited-by-kansas-state
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" Doug Snyder who was the star of the 75 team . . ."
You're kidding right? He was the Spradling on the team, a player you could rely to not screw up too much. He was a cog on a team with Evans, Williams and Gerlach.
Evans came to K-State because of Dean Smith's desire to get him out of the ACC once he'd recruited Phil Ford. http://themercury.com/articles/mike-evans-learns-years-later-how-he-was-recruited-by-kansas-state
Using the STAR term to refer to Snyder probably was a mis-statement on my part but he was more important to the team's winning than Sprads is.
I forget about Carl Gerlach, maybe because he was not a big scorer when I was in school but he may have been the fastest big man from one base line to other I have ever seen play.
Like I said I wasn't sure about Clyde "the Glides'" involvement with the recruiting of Chuckie or Mike but I would wonder even if he wanted him out of the ACC wouldn't Dean Smith been more likely to push Mike towards his Alma Mater like he did when the Hawks hired Roy Boy in Larryville
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I think Lon could of put us in the Final Four and won multiple league titles if he would have stayed.
Dude has had some runs with every college team he has ever coached.
I don't think the losing streak to KU would have ever been as large if Lon would have been around.
Lon Kruger's great recruiter was Altman. When Altman left, the future got cloudy to say the least and it helped lead to having Lon go to an easier place to recruit - where he did well until his kids got in the system, he moved on and repeated the cycle.
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"Like I said I wasn't sure about Clyde "the Glides'" involvement with the recruiting of Chuckie or Mike but I would wonder even if he wanted him out of the ACC wouldn't Dean Smith been more likely to push Mike towards his Alma Mater like he did when the Hawks hired Roy Boy in Larryville"
Dean's assistant played a role.
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I think Lon could of put us in the Final Four and won multiple league titles if he would have stayed.
Dude has had some runs with every college team he has ever coached.
I don't think the losing streak to KU would have ever been as large if Lon would have been around.
It was at 2 when he left FWIW.
Lon was 4-8 against KU.
February 4, 1987 Kansas 80-75 ** Manhattan
February 19, 1987 Kansas 84-67 Lawrence
January 30, 1988 K-State 72-61 Lawrence
February 18, 1988 Kansas 64-63 Manhattan
March 12, 1988 K-State 69-54 + Kansas City, Mo.
March 27, 1988 Kansas 71-58 † Pontiac, Mich.
January 14, 1989 Kansas 75-74 * Manhattan
January 28, 1989 K-State 71-70 Lawrence
March 10, 1989 K-State 73-65 Kansas City, Mo.
January 27, 1990 Kansas 85-57 Manhattan
February 24, 1990 Kansas 70-58 Lawrence
I don't think he would have gotten the streak up into the 20s.
The early 90s were when things really started to come unraveled. Hell, we had more NCAA appearances than KU before '91.
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1996-2008 will be known as the dark ages.
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rough ridin' combover Purdue coach and his squeaky assistant stole point guard Reed (Reid?) who went on to become two-time Big 10 player of the year (maybe it would have helped had Hartman played him a little bit during, especially with the injuries) and two 6-8ish forwards, who went on to have fine careers at like MAC schools.
FJK, and FBW, if I'm interpreting this right.
Nevertheless, what a fantastic thread. Thanks to the contributors.
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don't forget he got The Sarge
The Sarge. A great one.
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Contrary to what others have said here Jack absolutely hated the process of recruiting. He inherited the Kruger team when he came to Manhatten in 1970, Fitzimmons had done every thing but sign them (Lonnie, Danny Beard, Steve Mitchell and Ernie Kushner, who made up the core of the 73 and 74 championship teams), Doug Snyder who was the star of the 75 team when he was a senior originally was recruited to Manhattan as a QB by Vince Gibson, I think Chuckie Williams and Mike Evans may have come to Manhattan partially due to the efforts of Clyde Frazier , who was close to Hartman from his playing days at SIU,and partially because of Hartman's reputation of using and developing guards. I definitely know that Clyde was the reasons that Redding and Ro Blackman came to KSU, Tim Jankovich's first wife was one of Hartman's daughter's and they had been a couple since Jr. High but Jank originally took a scholarship to the University of Washington, then came back to Manhattan and sat out a year . Jack liked to coach/teach, look what he did to make Blackman a two time All-American and Ed Nealy had one of the worst cases of "White Man's Desease" I have ever seen on a BB court at that level, had no business playing D-1 BB let alone having a 13 year NBA career, but after Chuck Garret, who was the recruiter that came with Coach Hartman from SIU was killed in a car wreck coming back from a recruiting trip and Reinert after him and Ro Blackman left, Jack did not have any one to work with.
Not many periods in that sort of run-on post. Please edit and re-post. TIA.
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I think Lon could of put us in the Final Four and won multiple league titles if he would have stayed.
Dude has had some runs with every college team he has ever coached.
I don't think the losing streak to KU would have ever been as large if Lon would have been around.
It was at 2 when he left FWIW.
Lon was 4-8 against KU.
February 4, 1987 Kansas 80-75 ** Manhattan
February 19, 1987 Kansas 84-67 Lawrence
January 30, 1988 K-State 72-61 Lawrence
February 18, 1988 Kansas 64-63 Manhattan
March 12, 1988 K-State 69-54 + Kansas City, Mo.
March 27, 1988 Kansas 71-58 † Pontiac, Mich.
January 14, 1989 Kansas 75-74 * Manhattan
January 28, 1989 K-State 71-70 Lawrence
March 10, 1989 K-State 73-65 Kansas City, Mo.
January 27, 1990 Kansas 85-57 Manhattan
February 24, 1990 Kansas 70-58 Lawrence
I don't think he would have gotten the streak up into the 20s.
The early 90s were when things really started to come unraveled. Hell, we had more NCAA appearances than KU before '91.
Man I forgot about that stat! We used to rub that in squawk faces.
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good thread.
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Very interesting, guys. Reiner's statement when leaving was kind of strange:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19780407&id=a0MyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=beYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5682,1251808
Yeah, that doesn't sound like it ended well.
Might be luked, but love the article on KSU on the front sports page of that LWJ. MCMW Dickey!
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If I remember correctly, Hartman suffered a heart attack during some of his later years as head coach. He recovered but I don't think he was ever quite the same. Does anyone but me remember him stepping in and coaching women's BB when their coach was forced out?
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If I remember correctly, Hartman suffered a heart attack during some of his later years as head coach. He recovered but I don't think he was ever quite the same. Does anyone but me remember him stepping in and coaching women's BB when their coach was forced out?
_FAN remembered during fattyfest 2012. He may have been the only one.
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If I remember correctly, Hartman suffered a heart attack during some of his later years as head coach. He recovered but I don't think he was ever quite the same. Does anyone but me remember him stepping in and coaching women's BB when their coach was forced out?
Not sure of the years but remember Jack being ambulanced to Stormont-Vail hospital in Topeka to have heart by-pass surgery either just before or during the Big 8 season, may have been the year before Lon came back. In his absence the interim HC was Daryl Winston if I remember correctly.
I remember when the AD asked Jack to come out of retirement and coach the woman's BB team after the woman's coach was fired during the season for what were deemed to be NCAA violations. Not sure what his record was with the woman's team that part of a year he coached but having had a National COY on the bench could have only been a positive
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If I remember correctly, Hartman suffered a heart attack during some of his later years as head coach. He recovered but I don't think he was ever quite the same. Does anyone but me remember him stepping in and coaching women's BB when their coach was forced out?
_FAN remembered during fattyfest 2012. He may have been the only one.
Heart attack in Jan '85 after a close loss to Oregon State in Ahearn I believe.
Tom
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Bill Guthridge was the connection for Evans to KSU, Guthridge was a former cat who was an asst. for Tex and then Dean Smith
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I'm glad there are enough old farts on this blog to provide these mini history lessons.
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I'm glad there are enough old farts on this blog to provide these mini history lessons.
Yeah, that Tom guy is kind of an old fart, but his memory of Hartman (and the heart attack) appears to be spot on.
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/642923/
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Contrary to what others have said here Jack absolutely hated the process of recruiting. He inherited the Kruger team when he came to Manhatten in 1970, Fitzimmons had done every thing but sign them (Lonnie, Danny Beard, Steve Mitchell and Ernie Kushner, who made up the core of the 73 and 74 championship teams), Doug Snyder who was the star of the 75 team when he was a senior originally was recruited to Manhattan as a QB by Vince Gibson, I think Chuckie Williams and Mike Evans may have come to Manhattan partially due to the efforts of Clyde Frazier , who was close to Hartman from his playing days at SIU,and partially because of Hartman's reputation of using and developing guards. I definitely know that Clyde was the reasons that Redding and Ro Blackman came to KSU, Tim Jankovich's first wife was one of Hartman's daughter's and they had been a couple since Jr. High but Jank originally took a scholarship to the University of Washington, then came back to Manhattan and sat out a year . Jack liked to coach/teach, look what he did to make Blackman a two time All-American and Ed Nealy had one of the worst cases of "White Man's Desease" I have ever seen on a BB court at that level, had no business playing D-1 BB let alone having a 13 year NBA career, but after Chuck Garret, who was the recruiter that came with Coach Hartman from SIU was killed in a car wreck coming back from a recruiting trip and Reinert after him and Ro Blackman left, Jack did not have any one to work with.
Not many periods in that sort of run-on post. Please edit and re-post. TIA.
Agreed. I'm very interested in what it actually means.
P.S. Great thread. I love crap like this. Hey cat hoop youngsters: did you know the women's team at Kazzu apparently used to be known as the Wild Kittens? I mean what in the world.
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Bill Guthridge was the connection for Evans to KSU, Guthridge was a former cat who was an asst. for Tex and then Dean Smith
Yes, exactly. He also would have been hired as head coach had Hartman actually went to Okie State. In hindsight, this might have been a great thing.
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True story: Jack Hartman is a native of Dewey, OK, about an hour away from Okie State, where Hartman played collegiate basketball. Hartman always had an affinity for the Pokes.
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True story: Jack Hartman is a native of Dewey, OK, about an hour away from Okie State, where Hartman played collegiate basketball. Hartman always had an affinity for the Pokes.
Although at this point it probably is just nit-piking but I once worked with a fellow who said his father went to HS with Jack at I thought Shidler OK, which is on the East side of Kaw Lake on the highway South of Dexter. Shidler is 100-150 miles West of Dewey but is about an hour from Stillwater while it may be 1-2 hours from Dewey to Stillwater. Again, I think, but not positive, he was recruited to OSU to play FB and his first job out of college was as an assistant to Coach Iba for the Cowboys BB team, but I cannot remember if Jack actually played basket ball in college.
This is another old geezer story: before he went to Coffey JC, where he won a National JC BB championship, in the 1950's Jack was the HS BB coach at either Plainville or Phillipsburg (one of the "P" towns North of Hays). Can anyone verify that fact and what town it was?
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I'm enjoying this thread.
Jack had 295 wins at KSU. Given his background in rural Oklahoma, do you think it bothered him that he never got to 300?
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True story: Jack Hartman is a native of Dewey, OK, about an hour away from Okie State, where Hartman played collegiate basketball. Hartman always had an affinity for the Pokes.
Although at this point it probably is just nit-piking but I once worked with a fellow who said his father went to HS with Jack at I thought Shidler OK, which is on the East side of Kaw Lake on the highway South of Dexter. Shidler is 100-150 miles West of Dewey but is about an hour from Stillwater while it may be 1-2 hours from Dewey to Stillwater. Again, I think, but not positive, he was recruited to OSU to play FB and his first job out of college was as an assistant to Coach Iba for the Cowboys BB team, but I cannot remember if Jack actually played basket ball in college.
This is another old geezer story: before he went to Coffey JC, where he won a National JC BB championship, in the 1950's Jack was the HS BB coach at either Plainville or Phillipsburg (one of the "P" towns North of Hays). Can anyone verify that fact and what town it was?
http://www.fanbase.com/Jack-Hartman
Don't know if reliable, but has Jack Hartman playing BB at Oklahoma State. You may be right about the hometown, I heard Dewey somewhere. Dewey was memorable because it had the only x-rated theater within 100 miles, and it was cool to sneak in with a fake ID back before Internet porn.
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Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.
A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:
(http://cjonline.com/images/082404/22450_270.jpg)
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Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.
A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:
(http://cjonline.com/images/082404/22450_270.jpg)
Was he good? I remember thinking he was pretty good, or was going to be pretty good. I remember he was part of the "#1 ranked recruiting class." Maybe that was another class.
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My high school counselor was Lon Krueger's high school basketball coach at Silver Lake. As such he used to get to watch practice during Lon's days at K-State. He said Jack would grab guys by the ear to make sure he had their attention when talking to them. Told a story once about how if they won on the road they ate at the best restaurant on the return home. If they lost, hamburgers on the bus.
I remember him doing some color after retirement. Enjoyed him doing the 95 KSU v KU football game on Wildcat Network with Mitch.
Tom
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Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.
A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:
(http://cjonline.com/images/082404/22450_270.jpg)
Was he good? I remember thinking he was pretty good, or was going to be pretty good. I remember he was part of the "#1 ranked recruiting class." Maybe that was another class.
He was top 100 in multiple rankings coming out of high school.
That was the "#1 class" with him, Cartier, Lance Harris, Massey, Justin Williams, Tyler Hughes, and Dramane Diarra.
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Would take a Martin and Massey any year.
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Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.
A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:
(http://cjonline.com/images/082404/22450_270.jpg)
Was he good? I remember thinking he was pretty good, or was going to be pretty good. I remember he was part of the "#1 ranked recruiting class." Maybe that was another class.
He was top 100 in multiple rankings coming out of high school.
That was the "#1 class" with him, Cartier, Lance Harris, Massey, Justin Williams, Tyler Hughes, and Dramane Diarra.
That was an outstanding class - I'd be thrilled with it now. Dez had injury issues and Jim was scared to play him. I remember trolling the phog with a screencap of Dez being in first place in the Big 12 in A:TO ratio in conference games.
:lol:
Didn't realize he left SMU and played a year at UNT
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/north-texas/dez-willingham
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Dez and Cartier both had injury issues their FR year which didn't help Wooly much (and also probably bought him more time).
http://cjonline.com/stories/010904/cat_martin.shtml
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Going from
KANSAS
20
STATE
to
K-State
20
on the jerseys was like the best day ever.
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Dez and Cartier both had injury issues their FR year which didn't help Wooly much (and also probably bought him more time).
http://cjonline.com/stories/010904/cat_martin.shtml
Dez was in that awkward group who were good but then would transfer away from Wooly. For all his niceness he couldn't keep players at all. Fred Pete, Dez, Nick Williams, etc
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Nick Williams was really good. Remember the Kelvin Sampson tampering rumors? :lol:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nick-williams-3.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nick-williams-1.html
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Nick Williams was really good. Remember the Kelvin Sampson tampering rumors? :lol:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nick-williams-3.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nick-williams-1.html
Yeah, dirty Sampson.
Williams was a bit like Foster in that he wasn't a really high profile recruit, but came in and played really well. It killed me when he left, the toughest of the Wooly transfers. Fred was probably a close 2nd.
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Lot's of really old nostalgia going on here. I enjoy it.
A little more recent and nothing to do with Hartman, but I forgot about the ridiculous undershirts Dez Willingham wore his freshman year:
(http://cjonline.com/images/082404/22450_270.jpg)
Was he good? I remember thinking he was pretty good, or was going to be pretty good. I remember he was part of the "#1 ranked recruiting class." Maybe that was another class.
He was top 100 in multiple rankings coming out of high school.
That was the "#1 class" with him, Cartier, Lance Harris, Massey, Justin Williams, Tyler Hughes, and Dramane Diarra.
Wooly didn't do crap with that group
Hell you could have taken that group to at least an NIT
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Bill Guthridge was the connection for Evans to KSU, Guthridge was a former cat who was an asst. for Tex and then Dean Smith
Yes, exactly. He also would have been hired as head coach had Hartman actually went to Okie State. In hindsight, this might have been a great thing.
Yes, considering that after Dean Smith retired in 1997, Guthridge became head coach at North Carolina for three seasons and took them to two final fours. Also he was named national coach of the year in 1998.
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Does anyone but me remember him stepping in and coaching women's BB when their coach was forced out?
I remember when the AD asked Jack to come out of retirement and coach the woman's BB team after the woman's coach was fired during the season for what were deemed to be NCAA violations. Not sure what his record was with the woman's team that part of a year he coached but having had a National COY on the bench could have only been a positive
My M-I-L played ball for the lady Cats during Jack's early years at KSU. She told me that she was shocked when they asked Jack to coach the women because (at least while she was there) he absolutely hated the women's team and was vocal about it, especially when their practice/playing schedule got in the way of his teams.
On another note, here's a book about the Jack Gardner years for those interested in KSU basketball history. Gave it to my dad if few years ago. Lot's of great stories in it.
http://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Basketball-Kansas-State-University/dp/1585974358
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True story: Jack Hartman is a native of Dewey, OK, about an hour away from Okie State, where Hartman played collegiate basketball. Hartman always had an affinity for the Pokes.
Jack played QB and was a kicker at OSU...up until the Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders years and beyond Jack was in the top ten rushers in OSU history if I remember correctly. The skoal spokesman that played for the Dallas Cowboys..."Just a pinch between my cheek and gum..." Walt Garrison was, I believe, the top rusher at that time.
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On another note, here's a book about the Jack Gardner years for those interested in KSU basketball history. Gave it to my dad if few years ago. Lot's of great stories in it.
http://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Basketball-Kansas-State-University/dp/1585974358
Thanks for the link, honestly didn't know this book existed.
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Did you know?
K-State played a nearly annual series with Indiana between 1947 and 1970. I guess Branch McCracken and Jack G/ Tex W. were buds, Cotton F. too. I wonder why they stopped in 1971. Maybe Bob Knight and Jack H. weren't buds. They did start playing again in 1980, but K-State couldn't beat them. Indiana was really good most of that time, but KSU starting to be crappy after 82 probably had more to do with that.
Pretty cool "rivalry" that they had going for awhile.
Scores from the Indiana Media Guide, so an L is a K-State win.
12/14/36 W 60-33 Bloomington
12/15/47 L 53-61 Manhattan
12/16/48 W 56-36 Bloomington
12/16/51 W 58-52 Manhattan
12/22/52 W 80-75 Bloomington
12/13/52 L 80-82 Manhattan
12/7/53 W 92-66 Bloomington
12/21/54 L 74-91 Manhattan
12/10/55 W 96-72 Bloomington
12/15/56 L 77-84 Manhattan
12/7/57 L 61-66 Bloomington
12/6/58 L 79-82 Manhattan
12/14/59 W 67-58 Bloomington
12/5/60 W 98-80 Manhattan
12/9/61 L 78-88 Bloomington
12/21/62 L 72-88 Manhattan
12/9/63 L 84-93 Bloomington
12/5/64 W 74-70 Manhattan
12/13/65 L 76-103 Bloomington
12/13/66 L 69-82 Manhattan
12/11/67 W 89-83 Bloomington
12/9/68 L 83-87* Manhattan
12/8/69 W 102-95 Bloomington
12/5/70 W 75-72 Manhattan
12/23/80 W 51-44 Manhattan
12/19/81 W 58-49 Bloomington
12/18/82 W 48-46 Manhattan
12/21/83 W 56-53* Bloomington
12/22/84 W 70-58 Manhattan
12/10/85 W 78-71 Bloomington
11/23/98 W 71-70 Lahaina, Maui <---- This game made young nicname super sad.
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I didn't know that nicname, but now I do. That's pretty cool.
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Man, that game in Maui. Cats led by 19 in the 2nd half, by 12 with 5 minutes left.
Poor Asbury.
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Did you know?
K-State played a nearly annual series with Indiana between 1947 and 1970. I guess Branch McCracken and Jack G/ Tex W. were buds, Cotton F. too. I wonder why they stopped in 1971. Maybe Bob Knight and Jack H. weren't buds. They did start playing again in 1980, but K-State couldn't beat them. Indiana was really good most of that time, but KSU starting to be crappy after 82 probably had more to do with that.
Pretty cool "rivalry" that they had going for awhile.
Scores from the Indiana Media Guide, so an L is a K-State win.
12/14/36 W 60-33 Bloomington
12/15/47 L 53-61 Manhattan
12/16/48 W 56-36 Bloomington
12/16/51 W 58-52 Manhattan
12/22/52 W 80-75 Bloomington
12/13/52 L 80-82 Manhattan
12/7/53 W 92-66 Bloomington
12/21/54 L 74-91 Manhattan
12/10/55 W 96-72 Bloomington
12/15/56 L 77-84 Manhattan
12/7/57 L 61-66 Bloomington
12/6/58 L 79-82 Manhattan
12/14/59 W 67-58 Bloomington
12/5/60 W 98-80 Manhattan
12/9/61 L 78-88 Bloomington
12/21/62 L 72-88 Manhattan
12/9/63 L 84-93 Bloomington
12/5/64 W 74-70 Manhattan
12/13/65 L 76-103 Bloomington
12/13/66 L 69-82 Manhattan
12/11/67 W 89-83 Bloomington
12/9/68 L 83-87* Manhattan
12/8/69 W 102-95 Bloomington
12/5/70 W 75-72 Manhattan
12/23/80 W 51-44 Manhattan
12/19/81 W 58-49 Bloomington
12/18/82 W 48-46 Manhattan
12/21/83 W 56-53* Bloomington
12/22/84 W 70-58 Manhattan
12/10/85 W 78-71 Bloomington
11/23/98 W 71-70 Lahaina, Maui <---- This game made young nicname super sad.
Jack scheduled games with Arkansas when Sutton got there in '74, and Arky had great teams back then, Pokes stick together.
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True story: Jack Hartman is a native of Dewey, OK, about an hour away from Okie State, where Hartman played collegiate basketball. Hartman always had an affinity for the Pokes.
Although at this point it probably is just nit-piking but I once worked with a fellow who said his father went to HS with Jack at I thought Shidler OK, which is on the East side of Kaw Lake on the highway South of Dexter. Shidler is 100-150 miles West of Dewey but is about an hour from Stillwater while it may be 1-2 hours from Dewey to Stillwater. Again, I think, but not positive, he was recruited to OSU to play FB and his first job out of college was as an assistant to Coach Iba for the Cowboys BB team, but I cannot remember if Jack actually played basket ball in college.
This is another old geezer story: before he went to Coffey JC, where he won a National JC BB championship, in the 1950's Jack was the HS BB coach at either Plainville or Phillipsburg (one of the "P" towns North of Hays). Can anyone verify that fact and what town it was?
He was the head basketball coach and head football coach at Plainville.
After he retired he did the color analysis for radio. my wife called him the colorless color man. He was horrible. I mean way worse than coach Z horrible.
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Thumbed through a mid 90s yearbook a few weeks ago. The article on the women's team centered around how Hartman openly hated the women's team when he was the men's coach.
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https://www.kstatesports.com/news/2020/7/24/mens-basketball-k-state-mourns-the-passing-of-pat-hartman.aspx
Tom
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