We look better than I thought we would

[Belvis Noland]

I'm sorry, how many top 150 recruits has oscar landed while he's been here?

 

ZERO, in his first full recruiting class.  How many did Frank have?  serious question.  McGruder?  Gipson? 

I really don't care about Top 150 rankings.  I more care about offers from other high D1 schools.  Like, Angel wasn't a Top150 player, but he had offers from Louisville and Miami.  Gipson was a Top 150, but relative to position, is clearly inferior to non-Top150 Angel.  It is what it is.     

Also, there are plenty of transfers (aka Clemente, Kelly) or JuCo guys (Big Meat) that aren't technically "Top 150" recruits, but sure as hell make a recruiting class a lot better. 

[ksupamplemousse]

He was on pace to absolutely shatter assist record iirc.

He wouldn't have shattered it, but he probably would have broken it. Henson ended up being a terrific scorer for K-State his last two years, which would have made "The Greatest PG in K-State History" debate pretty interesting had Angel stuck around. Now we'll never know for sure 

[Rage Against the McKee]

He was on pace to absolutely shatter assist record iirc.

He wouldn't have shattered it, but he probably would have broken it. Henson ended up being a terrific scorer for K-State his last two years, which would have made "The Greatest PG in K-State History" debate pretty interesting had Angel stuck around. Now we'll never know for sure 

Henson played basketball in an era where the product on the floor was just completely inferior to what is out there today. I will listen to an argument saying Denis is the best PG we have ever had, but Henson is just laughable.

[CNS]

Yeah, current list of best pg is denis, jake, angel, wgaf.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yeah, current list of best pg is denis, jake, angel, wgaf.

Jake was a better player than Denis and Angel, but only when he was at the 2. He wasn't a better PG than Angel.

[Stevesie60]

I'm sorry, how many top 150 recruits has oscar landed while he's been here?

 

ZERO, in his first full recruiting class.  How many did Frank have?  serious question.  McGruder?  Gipson? 

I really don't care about Top 150 rankings.  I more care about offers from other high D1 schools.  Like, Angel wasn't a Top150 player, but he had offers from Louisville and Miami.  Gipson was a Top 150, but relative to position, is clearly inferior to non-Top150 Angel.  It is what it is.     

Also, there are plenty of transfers (aka Clemente, Kelly) or JuCo guys (Big Meat) that aren't technically "Top 150" recruits, but sure as hell make a recruiting class a lot better. 

Frank had at least one in every class, IIRC. oscar is on pace to have 0% of his classes have a top 150 player in them.

[Belvis Noland]

Yeah, current list of best pg is denis, jake, angel, wgaf.

Jake wouldv'e been a great PG if he played PG. 

[ksupamplemousse]

He was on pace to absolutely shatter assist record iirc.

He wouldn't have shattered it, but he probably would have broken it. Henson ended up being a terrific scorer for K-State his last two years, which would have made "The Greatest PG in K-State History" debate pretty interesting had Angel stuck around. Now we'll never know for sure 

Henson played basketball in an era where the product on the floor was just completely inferior to what is out there today. I will listen to an argument saying Denis is the best PG we have ever had, but Henson is just laughable.

I understand your point, but to play devil's advocate, Steve Henson played in the league for six year and Denis never made it to the show at all. It's not like he was Will Spradling.

[CNS]

Guys, does oscar even have a 2014 guy lined up that has other d1 ofrers?

[CNS]

Yeah, current list of best pg is denis, jake, angel, wgaf.

Jake wouldv'e been a great PG if he played PG.

He played it off and on. We combo guarded, and he had the job after denis.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yeah, current list of best pg is denis, jake, angel, wgaf.

Jake wouldv'e been a great PG if he played PG.

He did play PG as a freshman.

[Rage Against the McKee]

He was on pace to absolutely shatter assist record iirc.

He wouldn't have shattered it, but he probably would have broken it. Henson ended up being a terrific scorer for K-State his last two years, which would have made "The Greatest PG in K-State History" debate pretty interesting had Angel stuck around. Now we'll never know for sure 

Henson played basketball in an era where the product on the floor was just completely inferior to what is out there today. I will listen to an argument saying Denis is the best PG we have ever had, but Henson is just laughable.

I understand your point, but to play devil's advocate, Steve Henson played in the league for six year and Denis never made it to the show at all. It's not like he was Will Spradling.

There is absolutely no way that Steve Henson plays in today's NBA. I don't even think he plays Euroball.

[hatingfrancisco]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Henson plays in today's NBA. I don't even think he plays Euroball.

Oh dear lord not this argument again.

[ksupamplemousse]

He was on pace to absolutely shatter assist record iirc.

He wouldn't have shattered it, but he probably would have broken it. Henson ended up being a terrific scorer for K-State his last two years, which would have made "The Greatest PG in K-State History" debate pretty interesting had Angel stuck around. Now we'll never know for sure 

Henson played basketball in an era where the product on the floor was just completely inferior to what is out there today. I will listen to an argument saying Denis is the best PG we have ever had, but Henson is just laughable.

I understand your point, but to play devil's advocate, Steve Henson played in the league for six year and Denis never made it to the show at all. It's not like he was Will Spradling.

There is absolutely no way that Steve Henson plays in today's NBA. I don't even think he plays Euroball.

He played in the NBA from 90-95. I know that the level of athleticism is different today, but it's not like he played in the '70s or something. There were plenty of high level athletes in the NBA at that point in time and Henson was good enough to be on a roster and play some. He wouldn't have been drafted in today's NBA, but he could have had a career similar to Jake or Denis in a foreign league.

[Belvis Noland]

Frank had at least one in every class, IIRC. oscar is on pace to have 0% of his classes have a top 150 player in them.

Recruiting rankings are a poor indicator of success.  Come on.  Weber landed 15-20 top-150 guys from 2003-2012.  Hell, he had seven (7) 4* recruits in his last 2 classes, alone.  You've got to fill needs and you've gotta get the "right fit," as they say. 

To your point on Frank, I think he had a handful of top-150 guys.  Wally, McGruder, Nino?, Gip, Upshaw.  The problem, of course, is that these ratings can be kind of a crap shoot when you get out of the top 50.  I mean, Angel is not a Top 150, but Nino and Gip are???  Nino and Gip are, frankly, very average basketball players. 

[Stevesie60]

Frank had at least one in every class, IIRC. oscar is on pace to have 0% of his classes have a top 150 player in them.

Recruiting rankings are a poor indicator of success.  Come on.  Weber landed 15-20 top-150 guys from 2003-2012.  Hell, he had seven (7) 4* recruits in his last 2 classes, alone.  You've got to fill needs and you've gotta get the "right fit," as they say. 

To your point on Frank, I think he had a handful of top-150 guys.  Wally, McGruder, Nino?, Gip, Upshaw.  The problem, of course, is that these ratings can be kind of a crap shoot when you get out of the top 50.  I mean, Angel is not a Top 150, but Nino and Gip are???  Nino and Gip are, frankly, very average basketball players. 

Fine, you want to go by offer list I take it? What's the best school that oscar has beaten out for a recruit, OU?

[Rage Against the McKee]

Frank had at least one in every class, IIRC. oscar is on pace to have 0% of his classes have a top 150 player in them.

Recruiting rankings are a poor indicator of success.  Come on.  Weber landed 15-20 top-150 guys from 2003-2012.  Hell, he had seven (7) 4* recruits in his last 2 classes, alone.  You've got to fill needs and you've gotta get the "right fit," as they say. 

To your point on Frank, I think he had a handful of top-150 guys.  Wally, McGruder, Nino?, Gip, Upshaw.  The problem, of course, is that these ratings can be kind of a crap shoot when you get out of the top 50.  I mean, Angel is not a Top 150, but Nino and Gip are???  Nino and Gip are, frankly, very average basketball players.

I prefer to use on-the-court results to determine the quality of a coach's recruiting. Frank's recruits took us to an elite 8, 3 consecutive NCAA tournaments, and a Big 12 Championship. I would say that he was recruiting on a very high level.

[sonofdaxjones]

Frank had at least one in every class, IIRC. oscar is on pace to have 0% of his classes have a top 150 player in them.

Recruiting rankings are a poor indicator of success.  Come on.  Weber landed 15-20 top-150 guys from 2003-2012.  Hell, he had seven (7) 4* recruits in his last 2 classes, alone.  You've got to fill needs and you've gotta get the "right fit," as they say. 

To your point on Frank, I think he had a handful of top-150 guys.  Wally, McGruder, Nino?, Gip, Upshaw.  The problem, of course, is that these ratings can be kind of a crap shoot when you get out of the top 50.  I mean, Angel is not a Top 150, but Nino and Gip are???  Nino and Gip are, frankly, very average basketball players.

I prefer to use on-the-court results to determine the quality of a coach's recruiting. Frank's recruits took us to an elite 8, 3 consecutive NCAA tournaments, and a Big 12 Championship. I would say that he was recruiting on a very high level.

I say we don't sniff a Big 12 Championship or an NCAA tourney invite last year with Frank at the helm.

We get approximately 40% less production from Tay Irving and Shane Southwell with Frank's Dark Cloud hanging over their head the entire time.   McGruder also checks out at multiple points during the season and clueless Frank Martin's offense gets him open far less as well.

[CNS]

Shane may be a decent talking point but rodney has never checked out in his first three yrs. Silly to suggest he would start his sr yr.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The Big 12 was really weak last year, and I think Frank would have been just fine. I don't see what any of that has to do with Frank recruiting at a high enough level to win the Big 12, though. His recruits were the only guys seeing significant minutes in conference play last year.

[ksupamplemousse]

Shane may be a decent talking point but rodney has never checked out in his first three yrs. Silly to suggest he would start his sr yr.

Yeah, and Shane wouldn't have been nearly as big of a part of the gameplan. JO and Gip would have started down low, spelled by Upshaw and the European. Rodney would have played almost all the minutes at the three, so Shane would have played sparingly, for better or worse.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Plus, wasn't Spradling going to transfer is Frank stayed?

[CNS]

Plus, wasn't Spradling going to transfer is Frank stayed?

Oh man, addition by subtraction.

[Belvis Noland]

Fine, you want to go by offer list I take it? What's the best school that oscar has beaten out for a recruit, OU?

Where did you get the idea that I'm defending oscar's recruiting at KSU?  While I certainly believe that Frank's recruiting was slipping, especially at the guard position, I've never claimed that oscar's recruiting at KSU has been anything special.

Regardless, Big Meat (2014) had offers from Miami, Zona, Indiana, and Ole Miss.  So, that's encouraging.  especially because we need a big man in a bad way. 

The rest of the guys had very Pullenesque offer lists.  Foster (OU, Cal), Westicles (CU, Tech).  Hopefully the Georgetown transfer and the Maine Transfer (Edwards) are quality players.  I dunno. 

   

[sonofdaxjones]

The Big 12 was really weak last year, and I think Frank would have been just fine. I don't see what any of that has to do with Frank recruiting at a high enough level to win the Big 12, though. His recruits were the only guys seeing significant minutes in conference play last year.

There were only 2 Weber recruits on the roster.   Stupid talking point.

Plus, there's absolutely nothing about the Robert Upshaw track record in hindsight that indicates he wouldn't have been back in Fresno within a month after classes started at K-State.   To keep bringing that guy up is just stupid on every level.   There's huge doubt if the guy would have even qualified at K-State.