Another school shooting

[Emo EMAW]

Why do people always specify gun violence and leave all other violence out?  9/11, Timothy mcveigh, and that janitor that killed 38 kids in a Michigan school back in the thirties are all completely irrelevant to you?

We've already addressed McVeigh and 9/11 both in this thread and with legislation. (Note: I don't agree with the Patriot Act, just like I don't agree with taking away guns). Also, those three incidents over the las 80+ are far less statistically significant than death from guns.

Overall, a pretty poor attempt at a strawman.

How many people are killed annually in the US by "assault weapons?"  Is it statistically significant?

An assault weapons ban is a small part of that conversation (albeit one that gets outsize attention from the media) but if you think its the main motivation or argument behind these measures you're mistaken.

What's the main theme of the conversation?

[Emo EMAW]

Why do people always specify gun violence and leave all other violence out?  9/11, Timothy mcveigh, and that janitor that killed 38 kids in a Michigan school back in the thirties are all completely irrelevant to you?

We've already addressed McVeigh and 9/11 both in this thread and with legislation. (Note: I don't agree with the Patriot Act, just like I don't agree with taking away guns). Also, those three incidents over the las 80+ are far less statistically significant than death from guns.

Overall, a pretty poor attempt at a strawman.

How many people are killed annually in the US by "assault weapons?"  Is it statistically significant?

Are you the one constantly obsessing over the adult weapon definition? Because I really don't care and have never singled out assault weapons as a good place to start with policy changes.

No.  I just didn't want to perpetuate something I believe to be incorrect, but I did want to speak on terms that many here might understand.

[8manpick]

Would the military still have the weapons they have today?  Would everything else be exactly as it is now, just without the guns? If so, no.  I believe the trends we see in violence would be identical and we would be talking about some other way to restrict mayhem.  The conversation would at least probably be on the right track in my opinion.

Yeah I meant it as everything would be the same as now minus more powerful weapons for civilians.  I think I agree with you overall, although mass killings would be significantly harder to pull off, IMO. It's an interesting thought experiment. 

I go back and forth because I truly see no necessity for civilian gun ownership in a developed society, but I understand there is no way that all of the guns are going away.  I don't think you would see much difference in violence if you successfully took away all the assault weapons/high capacity magazines/more powerful killing machines/handguns/whatever.

[HeinBallz]

Why so condescending?  I haven't suggested a plan because I don't think there can be one.  Any action taken that requires some sort of force to execute will have negative consequences.  That's all I've tried to warn against.

Our time would be better spent addressing the issues that pertain to what causes violence. And not as an addendum to essentially what would be more violence, gun control.

I was referring to your plan to address the problems that cause violence without any policy changes.

It's so simple, everything else is a waste of time.

Why does everyone look "up" for answers?  God & government.  Wouldn't people get farther if instead of feeling so helpless they ask other people to fix things for them, they just do little things within their control that help the community around them?  And fix things from the inside out?  Wait that can take years.  We want a fix right now damn it.  Lets impose gun policy that we can forget about after a vote that won't fix things now, but might have an effect within the next 50 years.

[Unruly]

[Paul Moscow]

Why do people always specify gun violence and leave all other violence out?  9/11, Timothy mcveigh, and that janitor that killed 38 kids in a Michigan school back in the thirties are all completely irrelevant to you?

We've already addressed McVeigh and 9/11 both in this thread and with legislation. (Note: I don't agree with the Patriot Act, just like I don't agree with taking away guns). Also, those three incidents over the las 80+ are far less statistically significant than death from guns.

Overall, a pretty poor attempt at a strawman.

How many people are killed annually in the US by "assault weapons?"  Is it statistically significant?

An assault weapons ban is a small part of that conversation (albeit one that gets outsize attention from the media) but if you think its the main motivation or argument behind these measures you're mistaken.

What's the main theme of the conversation?

I can tell you that it's certainly not about assault weapons exclusively. And you could start with the fact that an assault weapons ban is 1 of 19 measures proposed by Biden. 

[michigancat]

Why does everyone look "up" for answers?  God & government.  Wouldn't people get farther if instead of feeling so helpless they ask other people to fix things for them, they just do little things within their control that help the community around them?  And fix things from the inside out?

I knew you had a great plan! I would suggest you run for office on that platform, but you obviously have better things to do.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I really think that we need to do something to stop kids getting murdered while they are at school. I understand that the Sandy Hook shooter was an insane adult, but at this point, Sandy Hook is an outlier and most shootings have been performed by students. I mentioned this earlier, but I still think that it's pretty obvious that kids are not mentally ready to handle a firearm. We should set a legal age to carry a gun of any type and I think it should be 21. Also, if you own a gun, anything that the gun is used for should be your responsibility, even if the gun is stolen from you. Gun owners should be required to keep their guns secure.

JFC  You people went to KSU?

Yeah, because some cop stopped him on the way to that school and said, "You're old enough to own these right?"

No.

Guns are everywhere, you can't just write some legislation in D.C. and poof goes the magic dragon all guns and gun violence is gone. None of these laws are going to stop jack crap.

red: I should be responsible for something that was forcefully taken from my possession? 

It's like our generation thinks we are the first to discover and own guns. Quick! We need new protection from some idiot lawyers in D.C. from these alien wunderweapons!!!

If minors were not allowed to handle guns, less of them would know how to use them. Also, yes you should be held responsible for somebody else using your gun. If you keep it locked in a safe, nobody is getting it unless you give them the combination. If somebody is going to be able to forcibly take your gun from you, then you aren't really doing a good job of protecting yourself with your gun, either.

[HeinBallz]

Why does everyone look "up" for answers?  God & government.  Wouldn't people get farther if instead of feeling so helpless they ask other people to fix things for them, they just do little things within their control that help the community around them?  And fix things from the inside out?

I knew you had a great plan! I would suggest you run for office on that platform, but you obviously have better things to do.

So I have your vote then?

[Emo EMAW]

Why do people always specify gun violence and leave all other violence out?  9/11, Timothy mcveigh, and that janitor that killed 38 kids in a Michigan school back in the thirties are all completely irrelevant to you?

We've already addressed McVeigh and 9/11 both in this thread and with legislation. (Note: I don't agree with the Patriot Act, just like I don't agree with taking away guns). Also, those three incidents over the las 80+ are far less statistically significant than death from guns.

Overall, a pretty poor attempt at a strawman.

How many people are killed annually in the US by "assault weapons?"  Is it statistically significant?

An assault weapons ban is a small part of that conversation (albeit one that gets outsize attention from the media) but if you think its the main motivation or argument behind these measures you're mistaken.

What's the main theme of the conversation?

I can tell you that it's certainly not about assault weapons exclusively. And you could start with the fact that an assault weapons ban is 1 of 19 measures proposed by Biden.

Do we have the option of accepting the parts of the plan we like and rejecting those we don't?

[michigancat]

So I have your vote then?

 No, voting is stupid. I feel like I'm "looking up for answers" when I vote.

[HeinBallz]

So I have your vote then?

 No, voting is stupid. I feel like I'm "looking up for answers" when I vote.

Awesome!  We understand each other then.  Glad we could work this out friend.  Go cats!

[8manpick]

I really think that we need to do something to stop kids getting murdered while they are at school. I understand that the Sandy Hook shooter was an insane adult, but at this point, Sandy Hook is an outlier and most shootings have been performed by students. I mentioned this earlier, but I still think that it's pretty obvious that kids are not mentally ready to handle a firearm. We should set a legal age to carry a gun of any type and I think it should be 21. Also, if you own a gun, anything that the gun is used for should be your responsibility, even if the gun is stolen from you. Gun owners should be required to keep their guns secure.

JFC  You people went to KSU?
Yeah, because some cop stopped him on the way to that school and said, "You're old enough to own these right?"
No.
Guns are everywhere, you can't just write some legislation in D.C. and poof goes the magic dragon all guns and gun violence is gone. None of these laws are going to stop jack crap.
red: I should be responsible for something that was forcefully taken from my possession? 
It's like our generation thinks we are the first to discover and own guns. Quick! We need new protection from some idiot lawyers in D.C. from these alien wunderweapons!!!

If minors were not allowed to handle guns, less of them would know how to use them. Also, yes you should be held responsible for somebody else using your gun. If you keep it locked in a safe, nobody is getting it unless you give them the combination. If somebody is going to be able to forcibly take your gun from you, then you aren't really doing a good job of protecting yourself with your gun, either.

I think this is a bad thing, and you could add the word "responsibly" after them.  It's not like it is difficult to fire a gun with no background whatsoever, so why not teach gun safety before they are 21?  I can see an argument for not having concealed carry licensees until 21, or maybe even not owning a gun until then.  FWIW, I shot my first (non-BB) gun at 9 I believe.

[michigancat]

If everyone quit wasting time voting and more time fixing society's problems in their communities, there would never be another murder

[HeinBallz]

If everyone quit wasting time voting and more time fixing society's problems in their communities, there would never be another murder

What function of government actually works btw?  What gun control measure had an impact on gun violence that could not be attributed to anything else?

[michigancat]

If everyone quit wasting time voting and more time fixing society's problems in their communities, there would never be another murder

What function of government actually works btw?  What gun control measure had an impact on gun violence that could not be attributed to anything else?

who cares? analyzing them is a waste of time.

[HeinBallz]

If everyone quit wasting time voting and more time fixing society's problems in their communities, there would never be another murder

What function of government actually works btw?  What gun control measure had an impact on gun violence that could not be attributed to anything else?

who cares? analyzing them is a waste of time.

Feels hopeless doesn't it?  That hopeless feeling can either remind you to appreciate what you do have control over and take positive steps towards that; or it can become pain that you can't cope with. So your natural defense is to project that pain onto someone else in the form of anger.  Here's where you either call someone an idiot, take something away from someone like a toddler asserting their independence, or grab the first weapon you can find and physically hurt someone.  All forms of anger, all very primitive responses to pain, and really no different from each other.  Gun restriction is violence.

[puniraptor]

bombers and shooters are absolutely not the same.

please nobody on this planet attempt to use that comparison again so we can have some more meaningful hopeless discussions.

[HeinBallz]

bombers and shooters are absolutely not the same.

please nobody on this planet attempt to use that comparison again so we can have some more meaningful hopeless discussions.

Do they have different motivations?

[ChiComCat]

bombers and shooters are absolutely not the same.

please nobody on this planet attempt to use that comparison again so we can have some more meaningful hopeless discussions.

Do they have different motivations?

There is a different level of ease to which they can accomplish their task.

[HeinBallz]

bombers and shooters are absolutely not the same.

please nobody on this planet attempt to use that comparison again so we can have some more meaningful hopeless discussions.

Do they have different motivations?

There is a different level of ease to which they can accomplish their task.

One thing all psychopaths have in common is unlimited focus on their primary goal, lack of procrastination, emotional detachment from anything in the way of achieving their goal, and great resourcefulness. A person does not commit mass homicide on a whim.  These are not crimes of passion.  People are underestimating what motivated individuals are capable of.

[Domino]

bombers and shooters are absolutely not the same.

please nobody on this planet attempt to use that comparison again so we can have some more meaningful hopeless discussions.

Do they have different motivations?

Considering most EU countries, Australia, and Japan have very strict gun laws, and not a problem w/ common criminals resorting to making bombs, It's pretty easy to state that people who make bombs are few and far between.

[HeinBallz]

bombers and shooters are absolutely not the same.

please nobody on this planet attempt to use that comparison again so we can have some more meaningful hopeless discussions.

Do they have different motivations?

Considering most EU countries, Australia, and Japan have very strict gun laws, and not a problem w/ common criminals resorting to making bombs, It's pretty easy to state that people who make bombs are few and far between.

I like how you throw in the "common criminals" to completely ignore the tremendously huge problem EU has had with bombings over the last 100 years.  The last 10 years alone, there are probably more bombings in London than aurora/sandy hook type shootings over the entire US. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

[sys]

Then the kids/parents of kids should pay for it. 

I think it's fair for society to share in the costs.

of course you do, breedercat.

[Rage Against the McKee]

bombers and shooters are absolutely not the same.

please nobody on this planet attempt to use that comparison again so we can have some more meaningful hopeless discussions.

Do they have different motivations?

Considering most EU countries, Australia, and Japan have very strict gun laws, and not a problem w/ common criminals resorting to making bombs, It's pretty easy to state that people who make bombs are few and far between.

I like how you throw in the "common criminals" to completely ignore the tremendously huge problem EU has had with bombings over the last 100 years.  The last 10 years alone, there are probably more bombings in London than aurora/sandy hook type shootings over the entire US. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

Terrorist incidents are different than psychos and troubled kids deciding to kill some people on their way out. There is more motivation involved. I really don't think suicidal teenagers would go to the trouble if it weren't so easy to just swipe mom's gun out of the cabinet.