Another school shooting

[nicname]

An interesting article about mental illness in the US. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

There is a lot of truth in this article and I don't see much of a political skew, on either side, to it.  We can talk about guns, and what to do with them, but addressing the mental health problems in the country is a dire need as well.  It is a need directly related to violence and crime in our country.

[Pete]

An interesting article about mental illness in the US. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

There is a lot of truth in this article and I don't see much of a political skew, on either side, to it.  We can talk about guns, and what to do with them, but addressing the mental health problems in the country is a dire need as well.  It is a need directly related to violence and crime in our country.

Mental illness treatment in this country has been defunded drastically over the years.  It's a problem that both Democrats and Republicans have caused, though it certainly does wind up on the "social programs to dump" list with more Republicans than Democrats, but that's splitting hairs.

I hope that both sides of the isle unite on this and dedicate resources to it.

[ben ji]

Dlew may be on to something!

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/12/no-really-regulate-the-bullets/266332/

Also I hadnt even thought that one day you could be able to 3d print your own gun

[nicname]

An interesting article about mental illness in the US. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

There is a lot of truth in this article and I don't see much of a political skew, on either side, to it.  We can talk about guns, and what to do with them, but addressing the mental health problems in the country is a dire need as well.  It is a need directly related to violence and crime in our country.

Mental illness treatment in this country has been defunded drastically over the years.  It's a problem that both Democrats and Republicans have caused, though it certainly does wind up on the "social programs to dump" list with more Republicans than Democrats, but that's splitting hairs.

I hope that both sides of the isle unite on this and dedicate resources to it.

Yeah, I agree.  I not a pro on the history.  I only know a little, but my understanding is that in the past there were a lot more people being institutionalized.  There were also a lot less people on pharmaceutical drugs.

Eventually, mental wards and institutions began to be seen in a negative and inhumane light.  I'm sure that there were horror stories.  I'm also sure that often these institutions provided a place where the mentally unstable could receive treatment, and live as normal life as possible within the boundaries of the institution.   

As less people were being admitted to these institutions more people began to be treated with commercially produced pharmaceuticals.  The companies making these drugs have a lot of money and a lot of lobbying power.   

It is sad.  It is a problem. 

[HeinBallz]

Dlew may be on to something!

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/12/no-really-regulate-the-bullets/266332/

Also I hadnt even thought that one day you could be able to 3d print your own gun

3d printing guns... now you're just entering looney-toon land.   Someone get ben ji some tin foil for his head.

[p1k3]

anti depressants are a short term solution only. I was prescribed to lexipro for like two years and it was awful. crap is horrible for you. There are exceptions, of course, but big pharma has a vested interest in proliferating psychoactive drugs as much as they can. They see $$$. Just look at the adderal epidemic. I have friends that are 25 and still "rely" on riddilan (sp) . I mean, jesus rough ridin' christ

Is it a coincidence that such a large amount of the population is doped up, and there are more mass murders now? Idk but it's worth looking into.....

[nicname]

anti depressants are a short term solution only. I was prescribed to lexipro for like two years and it was awful. crap is horrible for you. There are exceptions, of course, but big pharma has a vested interest in proliferating psychoactive drugs as much as they can. They see $$$. Just look at the adderal epidemic. I have friends that are 25 and still "rely" on riddilan (sp) . I mean, jesus rough ridin' christ

Is it a coincidence that such a large amount of the population is doped up, and there are more mass murders now? Idk but it's worth looking into.....

I hear you.  That isn't saying that you or I don't think there are instances where pharmaceutical drugs are beneficial, or that they are needed.  It is acknowledging the severe overuse and acceptance of that overuse of drugs to help depression, anxiety, etc. 

I've always been averse to prescription drugs of pretty much any kind. So maybe that is skewing my opinion.

[michigancat]

You are taking an extremely lazy stance that you don't even feel that strongly about, which is funny given the intellectual superiority you tried to claim early in the thread.

you're going to have to make your logic explicit, i'm trying very hard to follow your thought process, and i just can't.  i don't see anything lazy about my posiote

Refusing to acknowledge any responsibility or problems associated with a stance of "people should be allowed to own nuclear weapons because of liberty" is lazy, childish, and foolish.

I just can't take your position seriously when choose to hide in a utopian fantasy land.

[HeinBallz]

I know no one wants to hear it, but violence on TV.  I'm not talking about a 13-20 year old kids, but kids from birth to roughly 12 being exposed to the kind of violence in prime time slots is ridiculous.  Some interesting stats:

Between 1998 and 2006:
Violence increased in every time slot:
    Violence during the 8:00 p.m. Family Hour has increased by 45%
    Violence during the 9:00 p.m. hour has increased by 92%
    Violence during the 10:00 p.m. hour has increased by 167%

ABC experienced the biggest increase in violent content overall.  In 1998, ABC averaged .93 instances of violence per hour during prime time.  By 2006, ABC was averaging 3.80 instances of violence per hour ? an increase of 309%.

Fox, the second-most violent network in 1998, experienced the smallest increase.  Fox averaged 3.43 instances of violence per hour in 1998 and 3.84 instances of violence per hour by 2006 ? an increase of only 12%.

More here:  http://www.parentstv.org/PTC/publications/reports/violencestudy/exsummary.asp

Honestly, when did nudity become taboo & violence become okay?  Movies can receive a PG13 people being brutally killed, but an R rating for consensual sex.  I'm not saying consensual sex should receive a PG13 - but as a parent, I'm much more comfortable with my kid watching a sex scene than watching someone brutally murdered.

[kim carnes]

You are taking an extremely lazy stance that you don't even feel that strongly about, which is funny given the intellectual superiority you tried to claim early in the thread.

you're going to have to make your logic explicit, i'm trying very hard to follow your thought process, and i just can't.  i don't see anything lazy about my posiote

Refusing to acknowledge any responsibility or problems associated with a stance of "people should be allowed to own nuclear weapons because of liberty" is lazy, childish, and foolish.

I just can't take your position seriously when choose to hide in a utopian fantasy land.

It's not lazy though. Your argument is lazy if anything.

[Panjandrum]

I know no one wants to hear it, but violence on TV.  I'm not talking about a 13-20 year old kids, but kids from birth to roughly 12 being exposed to the kind of violence in prime time slots is ridiculous.  Some interesting stats:

Between 1998 and 2006:
Violence increased in every time slot:
    Violence during the 8:00 p.m. Family Hour has increased by 45%
    Violence during the 9:00 p.m. hour has increased by 92%
    Violence during the 10:00 p.m. hour has increased by 167%

ABC experienced the biggest increase in violent content overall.  In 1998, ABC averaged .93 instances of violence per hour during prime time.  By 2006, ABC was averaging 3.80 instances of violence per hour ? an increase of 309%.

Fox, the second-most violent network in 1998, experienced the smallest increase.  Fox averaged 3.43 instances of violence per hour in 1998 and 3.84 instances of violence per hour by 2006 ? an increase of only 12%.

More here:  http://www.parentstv.org/PTC/publications/reports/violencestudy/exsummary.asp

Honestly, when did nudity become taboo & violence become okay?  Movies can receive a PG13 people being brutally killed, but an R rating for consensual sex.  I'm not saying consensual sex should receive a PG13 - but as a parent, I'm much more comfortable with my kid watching a sex scene than watching someone brutally murdered.

We have a couple of rules in our house:

No violent TV or movies when the kids are awake
No toy weapons of any kind

If someone gets our kids a toy gun, it's going back to the store.  We've got sports crap and fake musical instruments out the wazoo, but not a single weapon.

[michigancat]

You are taking an extremely lazy stance that you don't even feel that strongly about, which is funny given the intellectual superiority you tried to claim early in the thread.

you're going to have to make your logic explicit, i'm trying very hard to follow your thought process, and i just can't.  i don't see anything lazy about my posiote

Refusing to acknowledge any responsibility or problems associated with a stance of "people should be allowed to own nuclear weapons because of liberty" is lazy, childish, and foolish.

I just can't take your position seriously when choose to hide in a utopian fantasy land.

It's not lazy though. Your argument is lazy if anything.

Yeah, I am being pretty lazy. sys seemed to have the most compelling argument on the pro-gun side, and I was trying to see if he could talk about his position like an adult, but it's clear he's just another pike or freak.

[sys]

Refusing to acknowledge any responsibility or problems associated with a stance of "people should be allowed to own nuclear weapons because of liberty" is lazy, childish, and foolish.

I just can't take your position seriously when choose to hide in a utopian fantasy land.

i haven't done that.  you're projecting your strawman fantasy onto my posts.  i miswrite on occasion, especially when responding in a hurry.  but in general i try to choose my words with some thought.  you should do me the courtesy of reading them before accusing me of being lazy (irony!).

[felix rex]

They're having a memorial of the kids that were shot on CNN.

I don't want to throw my hat into a debate on civil liberties or the 2nd amendment.  People have strong feelings on the subject one way or the other.

What I want is to live in a country where we don't have to worry about this kind of violence.  I want to live in a country where people aren't overly paranoid about their government.  I mostly want to live in a country where people don't think this kind of stuff can be solved by praying it away or by carrying their own weapon.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that I probably need to look at becoming an ex-pat.  I may need to consult felix on good places to live abroad.

Hmmm. Running down that list, I may have some bad news for you. Maybe eurocat can offer some hope.

[HeinBallz]

We have a couple of rules in our house:

No violent TV or movies when the kids are awake
No toy weapons of any kind

If someone gets our kids a toy gun, it's going back to the store.  We've got sports crap and fake musical instruments out the wazoo, but not a single weapon.

I applaud you panj -  I don't even have cable in my house.   We do have bb guns & airsoft guns at the grandparents and will eventually introduce them in our house.  They are only used for target practice towards inanimate objects and are taught as a tool of skill.   Neighbor kids are just the opposite, so we constantly preach to our children that a gun, whether toy or something capable of firing projectiles should NOT be aimed at anything you do not intend to eat.  He'll play with the neighbor kids and play out imaginary war scenes and it's something that does bother us.  We try to limit it and talk about it afterwards and hope he's constructively using it as a coping mechanism for understanding violence.  My son doesn't understand why the neighbor kids at the ages 4,7 & 10 can watch batman/predator/terminator and that's our biggest struggle.  We've recently introduced comic books in hopes that it will satisfy the natural boyish desires for violence.  Overall, it's been okay. But I constantly am getting pissed at the neighbor kids - but don't want to over react to it and make it taboo for my son.   We always have to tell him he can't spend the night at their house in fear of what they might watch.   Thankfully, we have some home school friends that are more in line with feelings towards violence & the TV babysitter as us - so he gets to spend the night with some friends at least.

[felix rex]

I know no one wants to hear it, but violence on TV.  I'm not talking about a 13-20 year old kids, but kids from birth to roughly 12 being exposed to the kind of violence in prime time slots is ridiculous.  Some interesting stats:

Between 1998 and 2006:
Violence increased in every time slot:
    Violence during the 8:00 p.m. Family Hour has increased by 45%
    Violence during the 9:00 p.m. hour has increased by 92%
    Violence during the 10:00 p.m. hour has increased by 167%

ABC experienced the biggest increase in violent content overall.  In 1998, ABC averaged .93 instances of violence per hour during prime time.  By 2006, ABC was averaging 3.80 instances of violence per hour ? an increase of 309%.

Fox, the second-most violent network in 1998, experienced the smallest increase.  Fox averaged 3.43 instances of violence per hour in 1998 and 3.84 instances of violence per hour by 2006 ? an increase of only 12%.

More here:  http://www.parentstv.org/PTC/publications/reports/violencestudy/exsummary.asp

Honestly, when did nudity become taboo & violence become okay?  Movies can receive a PG13 people being brutally killed, but an R rating for consensual sex.  I'm not saying consensual sex should receive a PG13 - but as a parent, I'm much more comfortable with my kid watching a sex scene than watching someone brutally murdered.

Middle East censors are particularly hilarious about this extreme dichotomy. Skyfall was reduced to about an 85-minute fight scene (still good, btw).

[felix rex]

Not paranoid my friend. Its reality. Name calling will not solve your low IQ on the Bilderbergs plan to institute a global government by collapsing us economically and posing a 1 world solution. I mean rockefellar admits it in his own book.

Jesus Christ, listen to yourself.

Screw this.  I'm going ex-pat.

Where you you move?

We have friends in Australia.  I'm going to start asking around.

You would probably enjoy it.  I would be interested in living in Chile FWIW.

Ooh. I do recommend chile. The food is disappointing and the people are kinda ugly (they got the Euro/Indio mix backwards), but other than that I loved living there. You can cook your own food and if you want to look at beautiful people, Argentina is just a bus ride away!

But that whole militaristic Ley de Cobre and the whole resultant destabilization of the Southern Cone (not to mention underlying racism against Bolivians and Peruvians) may dampen your utopian expat hopes a bit. But hey, it is not easy to walk away from ALL the Omelas. And great skiing just two hours from beautiful beach towns!

[sys]

But that whole militaristic Ley de Cobre and the whole resultant destabilization of the Southern Cone (not to mention underlying racism against Bolivians and Peruvians) may dampen your utopian expat hopes a bit.

expatting is great because you don't identify with the culture/political system/etc.  so negative crap mostly doesn't bother you.  at least for me.

[felix rex]

This is a great point. The more I live in a place, the more I usually love it's zaniness. True for Cairo, too. But if I was an actual Cairene, I can see being a little let down about how this whole thing is going.

Oh, and my Arabic tutor has some welts from rubber bullets and birdshot. I'll ask her opinion on them.

[bubbles4ksu]

Does the killing of two Topeka police officers get put in this thread or do we start a new one every time people are needlessly killed by gun violence?

[star seed 7]

Does the killing of two Topeka police officers get put in this thread or do we start a new one every time people are needlessly killed by gun violence?

Police should have been packing.

[bubbles4ksu]

Hey sys, there was a deadly shootout less than 1/2 mile from my house. Do I have an interest in banning all guns and related civil liberties yet? Does it need to be closer?

[sys]

Hey sys, there was a deadly shootout less than 1/2 mile from my house. Do I have an interest in banning all guns and related civil liberties yet? Does it need to be closer?

i never said that you don't have a (legitimate) interest in preventing gun violence, or even in preventing your neighbors from owning guns.  i've said that your interest in those things does not automatically supersede your neighbors' interest in owning guns.  it is a matter of weighing the costs and benefits to the individual and to society of allowing private ownership of guns (or anything else).  on the issue of guns, i've already made clear where i think the balance lies, so i won't bother to repeat myself.

[bubbles4ksu]

Hey sys, there was a deadly shootout less than 1/2 mile from my house. Do I have an interest in banning all guns and related civil liberties yet? Does it need to be closer?

i never said that you don't have a (legitimate) interest in preventing gun violence, or even in preventing your neighbors from owning guns.  i've said that your interest in those things does not automatically supersede your neighbors' interest in owning guns.  it is a matter of weighing the costs and benefits to the individual and to society of allowing private ownership of guns (or anything else).  on the issue of guns, i've already made clear where i think the balance lies, so i won't bother to repeat myself.

There isn't a net benefit to gun ownership, the negative externalities are outrageously huge. How outrageous you ask? No, you didn't ask that, you didn't need to. Guns are like cigarettes except you can stick 1 million of them in another person's mouth if you want.

[steve dave]

We have a couple of rules in our house:

No violent TV or movies when the kids are awake
No toy weapons of any kind

If someone gets our kids a toy gun, it's going back to the store.  We've got sports crap and fake musical instruments out the wazoo, but not a single weapon.

I applaud you panj -  I don't even have cable in my house.   We do have bb guns & airsoft guns at the grandparents and will eventually introduce them in our house.  They are only used for target practice towards inanimate objects and are taught as a tool of skill.   Neighbor kids are just the opposite, so we constantly preach to our children that a gun, whether toy or something capable of firing projectiles should NOT be aimed at anything you do not intend to eat.  He'll play with the neighbor kids and play out imaginary war scenes and it's something that does bother us.  We try to limit it and talk about it afterwards and hope he's constructively using it as a coping mechanism for understanding violence.  My son doesn't understand why the neighbor kids at the ages 4,7 & 10 can watch batman/predator/terminator and that's our biggest struggle.  We've recently introduced comic books in hopes that it will satisfy the natural boyish desires for violence.  Overall, it's been okay. But I constantly am getting pissed at the neighbor kids - but don't want to over react to it and make it taboo for my son.   We always have to tell him he can't spend the night at their house in fear of what they might watch.   Thankfully, we have some home school friends that are more in line with feelings towards violence & the TV babysitter as us - so he gets to spend the night with some friends at least.

Weren't you the guy that claimed his kid couldn't read well because his teacher was shitty?