Author Topic: Another school shooting  (Read 677588 times)

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Offline bubbles4ksu

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #675 on: December 15, 2012, 05:34:30 PM »
Jesus rough ridin' Christ, some goddamn psycho with a gun is going crazy damn near daily now.  Not one rough ridin' time has one of these psychos been taken down with someone who is carrying legally.  Such a stupid talking point.
eff guns, eff the second amendment.  I'm fed up, I've had enough of this bullshit.
STFU you rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercaz_HaRav_massacre
You know, maybe people who were carrying legally could stand a chance at stopping these events if...you know...they took place in areas where people could carry legally....you know...like not a school. Idiot.
ha ha ha ha, the best example you could find is something that happened in a war zone five years ago.  Even people who are on your side will concede that this doesn't advance your argument like at all.  LOL I win, keep sitting this out dumb ass

Israel in 2008 was not a war zone. rough ridin' idiot. Ignore the facts as always.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War Israel in 2008 was not a war zone. rough ridin' idiot. Ignore the facts as always.

Still waiting for some evidence that legal carry licenses aren't worthless.

Offline HeinBallz

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Another school shooting
« Reply #676 on: December 15, 2012, 05:34:35 PM »
Who should have guns?
Police men.  The military.

Angry, powerless little people who want to feel powerful.

Otherwise known as people who join the military or become a cop.
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline 8manpick

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #677 on: December 15, 2012, 05:53:22 PM »
Okay so I have a serious question for concealed carry people.  What happens when a bad guy comes up to you with a gun and demands your wallet. What are the scenarios?

As I see it:
1. You let the guy steal your wallet (best option)
2. You go for your gun, the guy panics and shoots you. Takes your wallet.
3. You go for the gun, guy panics and runs away, you keep wallet.
4. You go for your gun, guy panics/has safety on/gun jams, so you kill him.
5. Let the guy steal your wallet, then you shoot him as he runs away (kinda makes you a bad person, IMO.)
6. ???

Am I way off here?
:adios:

Offline DQ12

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #678 on: December 15, 2012, 05:58:43 PM »
This thread is a microcosm of why the anti-gun nuts are losing, badly.

What a bunch of diluted self righteous unreasonable douche bags.

Literally not one single persuasive or even remotely reasoned argument.  Wow, if you losers want to live in a police state I encourage you to try North Korea.
My soft bullet argument is pretty much bullet-proof (eyyo), actually.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 06:06:34 PM by Dlew12 »


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Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #679 on: December 15, 2012, 06:00:42 PM »
It seems like you do care.

i care, in general, about personal liberties, the trading of freedoms for the perception of safety, the tyranny of the majority over the minority, etc.  i don't care, specifically, about legalizing (are they currently illegal?) automatic weapons.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #680 on: December 15, 2012, 06:06:22 PM »
My soft bullet argument is pretty much bullet-proof, actually.

dlew, i can't even tell what you think it'd accomplish.  or maybe i should say, how you think it'd accomplish what you think it'd accomplish.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline DQ12

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #681 on: December 15, 2012, 06:09:17 PM »
My soft bullet argument is pretty much bullet-proof, actually.

dlew, i can't even tell what you think it'd accomplish.  or maybe i should say, how you think it'd accomplish what you think it'd accomplish.
The goal for me is to restrict the lethality of guns.  If we can do that, everyone wins.  It's compromise.  I think it's possible to modify ammunition so that people retain the right to defend themselves with guns, but give up the "right" to have the capacity to instantaneously kill another human being with a gun.  This is compromise.  This is what reasonable looks like.  And it seems to me, that this solution is far more realistic than requiring teachers and principles and lunch ladies to start packing heat or mandating everyone turn in their guns or whatever.

If we can invent dippin' dots, it seems like we could pretty easily find a less lethal ammunition substitute.  We're human beings, for crying out loud - the smartest things in the known universe.  We have airplanes and the internet and nuclear bombs.  Finding a less lethal ammunition substitute should be an easy problem to solve.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 06:22:12 PM by Dlew12 »


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #682 on: December 15, 2012, 06:09:57 PM »
Okay so I have a serious question for concealed carry people.  What happens when a bad guy comes up to you with a gun and demands your wallet. What are the scenarios?

As I see it:
1. You let the guy steal your wallet (best option)
2. You go for your gun, the guy panics and shoots you. Takes your wallet.
3. You go for the gun, guy panics and runs away, you keep wallet.
4. You go for your gun, guy panics/has safety on/gun jams, so you kill him.
5. Let the guy steal your wallet, then you shoot him as he runs away (kinda makes you a bad person, IMO.)
6. ???

Am I way off here?

Do one where the scenario is guy comes into an elementary school and attacks kids.
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #683 on: December 15, 2012, 06:18:18 PM »
Okay so I have a serious question for concealed carry people.  What happens when a bad guy comes up to you with a gun and demands your wallet. What are the scenarios?

As I see it:
1. You let the guy steal your wallet (best option)
2. You go for your gun, the guy panics and shoots you. Takes your wallet.
3. You go for the gun, guy panics and runs away, you keep wallet.
4. You go for your gun, guy panics/has safety on/gun jams, so you kill him.
5. Let the guy steal your wallet, then you shoot him as he runs away (kinda makes you a bad person, IMO.)
6. ???

Am I way off here?

Do one where the scenario is guy comes into an elementary school and attacks kids.

How many people inside a school do you think should be able to have a gun? Just the principal? Every teacher?

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #684 on: December 15, 2012, 06:22:28 PM »
The goal for me is to restrict the lethality of guns.  If we can do that, everyone wins.  It's compromise.  I think it's possible to modify ammunition so that people retain the right to defend themselves with guns, but give up the "right" to have the capacity to instantaneously kill another human being with a gun.  This is compromise.  This is what reasonable looks like.  And it seems to me, that this solution is far more realistic that mandating everyone turn in their guns or whatever.

i don't think you'd have a chance in hell at eliminating a black market in lead bullets, or even making that market difficult to access.  i don't understand what you'd plan to do about hunting ammunition, or how you think you'd restrict it hunting use.

i think you could do something like, make it so that people that fire lead ammunition in self-defense are charged with murder, or at least voluntary manslaughter, while people that fire your rubber or plastic bullets can't be charged with anything worse than involuntary manslaughter, if they happen to kill someone in self-defense.

i guess i don't see it as very useful, or important, of a point because i don't think that many people have guns primarily for self-defense.  and those that do, like, they need to buy ammo once every century or so, right?

finally, i think you'd be surprised by how much pushback you'd get from people that do keep guns for self-defense.

"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Online steve dave

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Offline DQ12

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #686 on: December 15, 2012, 06:32:21 PM »
i don't think you'd have a chance in hell at eliminating a black market in lead bullets, or even making that market difficult to access.  i don't understand what you'd plan to do about hunting ammunition, or how you think you'd restrict it hunting use.

i think you could do something like, make it so that people that fire lead ammunition in self-defense are charged with murder, or at least voluntary manslaughter, while people that fire your rubber or plastic bullets can't be charged with anything worse than involuntary manslaughter, if they happen to kill someone in self-defense.

i guess i don't see it as very useful, or important, of a point because i don't think that many people have guns primarily for self-defense.  and those that do, like, they need to buy ammo once every century or so, right?

finally, i think you'd be surprised by how much pushback you'd get from people that do keep guns for self-defense.
Yeah, but there's a black market for pretty much every illegal thing.  If people want to go on the black market to buy or sell lead bullets, they do so in violation of the law.  Just like those that view child porn.  The "right to go hunting with guns" is about the last concern on my mind here, Sys.  And I know we'll probably butt heads about it, but that's just something we're going to have to disagree about I think.  My solution to the hunting question would be for hunters to either shoot clay pigeons or something, or get good at using bows and arrows.

Your legislation assumptions are pretty much correct.  Just make lead bullets illegal.  Period.  Illegal to sell, illegal to fire.  If you get caught firing them, you're in trouble, even if it's for self-defense. 

There are only so many lead bullets left in this country right now, and if production ceases tomorrow, that number decreases every day. 


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline 8manpick

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Re: Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #687 on: December 15, 2012, 06:34:56 PM »
Okay so I have a serious question for concealed carry people.  What happens when a bad guy comes up to you with a gun and demands your wallet. What are the scenarios?

As I see it:
1. You let the guy steal your wallet (best option)
2. You go for your gun, the guy panics and shoots you. Takes your wallet.
3. You go for the gun, guy panics and runs away, you keep wallet.
4. You go for your gun, guy panics/has safety on/gun jams, so you kill him.
5. Let the guy steal your wallet, then you shoot him as he runs away (kinda makes you a bad person, IMO.)
6. ???

Am I way off here?

Do one where the scenario is guy comes into an elementary school and attacks kids.

1. Guy walks into an elementary school and shoots kids. Teacher that was brave enough to try and shoot him misses with her first two shots, shoots him in his kevlar vest with the third, then gets shot 3 times and dies. Shooter continues to kill kids.
2. Teacher doesn't panic, gets off a lucky shot and disables the shooter.
3. Teacher misses the shooter and shoots a kid. Survives the attack, but kills herself that night.
:adios:

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #688 on: December 15, 2012, 06:45:32 PM »
The "right to go hunting with guns" is about the last concern on my mind here, Sys.  And I know we'll probably butt heads about it, but that's just something we're going to have to disagree about I think.  My solution to the hunting question would be for hunters to either shoot clay pigeons or something, or get good at using bows and arrows.


ok, yeah, i didn't realize this.  so i think you're really, really wrong.


There are only so many lead bullets left in this country right now, and if production ceases tomorrow, that number decreases every day.

we have the longest open border in the world, unless you convince canada to outlaw hunting as well, i don't think the number would decrease at all (and probably not even if you did somehow convince canada to outlaw hunting).
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline Bloodfart

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #689 on: December 15, 2012, 06:52:32 PM »
Guns the great equalizer.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #690 on: December 15, 2012, 06:53:35 PM »
It seems like you do care.

i care, in general, about personal liberties, the trading of freedoms for the perception of safety, the tyranny of the majority over the minority, etc.  i don't care, specifically, about legalizing (are they currently illegal?) automatic weapons.

Aren't fully automatic weapons a personal liberty? (They are currently illegal)

You are contradicting yourself.

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #691 on: December 15, 2012, 06:57:16 PM »
You are contradicting yourself.

no i'm not.  i told you i supported people being allowed to own them, as i support people being allowed to own anything else.  but that it isn't something i care about.  there's no contradiction in that, not even in the slightest.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline DQ12

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #692 on: December 15, 2012, 06:58:14 PM »
The "right to go hunting with guns" is about the last concern on my mind here, Sys.  And I know we'll probably butt heads about it, but that's just something we're going to have to disagree about I think.  My solution to the hunting question would be for hunters to either shoot clay pigeons or something, or get good at using bows and arrows.


ok, yeah, i didn't realize this.  so i think you're really, really wrong.


There are only so many lead bullets left in this country right now, and if production ceases tomorrow, that number decreases every day.

we have the longest open border in the world, unless you convince canada to outlaw hunting as well, i don't think the number would decrease at all (and probably not even if you did somehow convince canada to outlaw hunting).
I knew you'd disagree with the hunting thing, but no matter the action (or inaction) related to gun-control moving forward, people are going to disagree about things (and that's okay!).  If the disagreement is about "hunting" that's okay with me.  If some one can think of a way to make hunting possible without increasing the lethality of guns, then go for it.  Until then, probably no hunting.

Like I said, black markets and smuggling and whatnot exists for every illegal thing and I don't find this argument at all compelling.  I find it unlikely that any future (illegal) canadian ammunition smuggling would outweigh the current domestic production of ammunition.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #693 on: December 15, 2012, 07:04:15 PM »
I find it unlikely that any future (illegal) canadian ammunition smuggling would outweigh the current domestic production of ammunition.

people would stop using it for stuff like target practice, so it'd only need to outweigh the future domestic use of lead ammo, not the current domestic production.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #694 on: December 15, 2012, 07:04:19 PM »
You are contradicting yourself.

no i'm not.  i told you i supported people being allowed to own them, as i support people being allowed to own anything else.  but that it isn't something i care about.  there's no contradiction in that, not even in the slightest.

Ah, so you support the legalization of them up to the point of caring.

Such conviction.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #695 on: December 15, 2012, 07:10:01 PM »
I find it unlikely that any future (illegal) canadian ammunition smuggling would outweigh the current domestic production of ammunition.

people would stop using it for stuff like target practice, so it'd only need to outweigh the future domestic use of lead ammo, not the current domestic production.
But in theory, at most, the future domestic use of lead ammo would be equal to the future amount of illegal smuggling.

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline sys

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Re: Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #696 on: December 15, 2012, 07:10:44 PM »
Ah, so you support the legalization of them up to the point of caring.

Such conviction.

that's the way humans work, michigancat.  we tend not to care very much about stuff we don't care very much about.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Re: Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #697 on: December 15, 2012, 07:14:44 PM »
Ah, so you support the legalization of them up to the point of caring.

Such conviction.

that's the way humans work, michigancat.  we tend not to care very much about stuff we don't care very much about.

It just really makes your high and mighty personal liberty stance lose a lot of its luster. Oh, well.

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #698 on: December 15, 2012, 07:17:10 PM »
But in theory, at most, the future domestic use of lead ammo would be equal to the future amount of illegal smuggling.

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying.

no you're not.  how often does someone that wants a gun for self-defense fire a bullet in self defense?  i'd say the mode would be never.  you wouldn't need much a supply to keep up with that rate of use.


by the way, your no hunting thing kinda throws me for a loop.  i thought your whole idea was to propose a less radical, more feasible solution to reduce the lethality of gun violence than restricting gun ownership.  yet you want to eliminate the largest, most popular activity for which guns are used?  i think the only poster here advocating a more radical, less feasible solution is sd.  if you're going that far, why not just advocate rounding up guns?  at least guns are harder to smuggle than ammo.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline sys

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Re: Re: Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #699 on: December 15, 2012, 07:20:13 PM »
It just really makes your high and mighty personal liberty stance lose a lot of its luster. Oh, well.

that's the way personal liberties work.  i don't try to limit the liberties of other people to own/do stuff i don't care about, and i hope other people don't try to limit my liberty to own/do stuff i do care about.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."