Another school shooting

["storm"nut]

I own guns, I would give them up if it meant no more children would die. I just don't understand how this would work.  Do we just stop allowing them to be made and sold and leave the current supply in place? like pretend for a second the country all came together and said no more guns, what's the realistic first step?

well, when they made heroin illegal when they realized it was killing people what did they do with the heroin that was already out there? or anything else they made illegal that kills people. do that imo. if the junkies could blow their load on what they had, fine. no more bullets or making of bullets in house though.

Stop making bullets and they just go black market and you also make a whole new class of criminal, filling jails with new criminals.

[wetwillie]

I own guns, I would give them up if it meant no more children would die. I just don't understand how this would work.  Do we just stop allowing them to be made and sold and leave the current supply in place? like pretend for a second the country all came together and said no more guns, what's the realistic first step?

well, when they made heroin illegal when they realized it was killing people what did they do with the heroin that was already out there? or anything else they made illegal that kills people. do that imo. if the junkies could blow their load on what they had, fine. no more bullets or making of bullets in house though.

So just focus on the ammo production then?  I guess it could work to basically starve the supply of ammo that makes the weapons relevant.  Going to take decades to exhaust the supply I think.

[Cire]

No one needs a rough ridin' hand gun


Gun manufacturers should go the way of big tobacco

[steve dave]

No one needs a rough ridin' hand gun


Gun manufacturers should go the way of big tobacco

yes

[puniraptor]

don't say ridiculous bullshit like this and I'll take you seriously

20ish people in a world of 7 billion.  there were, not tens, not hundreds, but thousands of tragedies that occurred in the world today that were just as devastating, just as random, just as horrific to those impacted.  yet we masturbate to our own little american tragedy as if it holds some special place of honor.  it does not.

So because tragedies happen all the time everywhere, we shouldn't try to do anything to prevent them?

[Barry McCockner]

don't say ridiculous bullshit like this and I'll take you seriously

20ish people in a world of 7 billion.  there were, not tens, not hundreds, but thousands of tragedies that occurred in the world today that were just as devastating, just as random, just as horrific to those impacted.  yet we masturbate to our own little american tragedy as if it holds some special place of honor.  it does not.

How many children died of malaria today in the world?  Don't dare suggest that we start producing DDT and shipping it to Africa though.

[Barry McCockner]

No one needs a rough ridin' hand gun


Gun manufacturers should go the way of big tobacco

When the home invaders come through your door, get back to me on that.

[steve dave]

I own guns, I would give them up if it meant no more children would die. I just don't understand how this would work.  Do we just stop allowing them to be made and sold and leave the current supply in place? like pretend for a second the country all came together and said no more guns, what's the realistic first step?

well, when they made heroin illegal when they realized it was killing people what did they do with the heroin that was already out there? or anything else they made illegal that kills people. do that imo. if the junkies could blow their load on what they had, fine. no more bullets or making of bullets in house though.

So just focus on the ammo production then?  I guess it could work to basically starve the supply of ammo that makes the weapons relevant.  Going to take decades to exhaust the supply I think.

no, if it was up to me we take all of them away and immediately make it illegal to personally own a firearm. military and police only. or maybe just military other than special divisions of police. but that won't be until later when people have gotten their prosthetic dicks taken away.

[gatoveintisiete]

don't say ridiculous bullshit like this and I'll take you seriously

20ish people in a world of 7 billion.  there were, not tens, not hundreds, but thousands of tragedies that occurred in the world today that were just as devastating, just as random, just as horrific to those impacted.  yet we masturbate to our own little american tragedy as if it holds some special place of honor.  it does not.

anybody that wants to argue with Sys on this is gonna look really Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) 

[sys]

So because tragedies happen all the time everywhere, we shouldn't try to do anything to prevent them?

you can go back and read my response to mir regarding tradeoffs between liberties and safety.  i'm not going to type it out again.

[star seed 7]

No one needs a rough ridin' hand gun


Gun manufacturers should go the way of big tobacco

When the home invaders come through your door, get back to me on that.

1) T's & P's on being so afraid of the world
2) according to gun nuts, a knife will do just as well, keep that in your nightstand.

[EMAWmeister]

No, so the option is legislating methods of destroying lives away.  Right?

Yes, obviously. 

[sys]

How many children died of malaria today in the world?  Don't dare suggest that we start producing DDT and shipping it to Africa though.

ddt is banned in the us, and severely restricted worldwide.  even though use of ddt can prevent some human deaths, it has other consequences which are considered to also have importance.  good example.

[Barry McCockner]

No one needs a rough ridin' hand gun


Gun manufacturers should go the way of big tobacco

When the home invaders come through your door, get back to me on that.

1) T's & P's on being so afraid of the world
2) according to gun nuts, a knife will do just as well, keep that in your nightstand.

1) T&P for your family whose lives you apparently don't value
2) thanks for making my point

[Cire]

No one needs a rough ridin' hand gun


Gun manufacturers should go the way of big tobacco

When the home invaders come through your door, get back to me on that.

Sorry you live in a place so shitty that you have to worry about stuff like that. 

[HeinBallz]

We have to figure out a way so some disturbed idiot who has a bad day and decides "eff it" cannot massacre 20 little kids by just squeezing a trigger.  We simply have to.  I don't want your goddam guns, I have hunting guns myself but eff, this guy just got mad and had access to killing machines that allowed him to freak out and kill 20 little kids with so little effort or planning.

Read again, 20 little kids watched some psycho train a pistol on them and end their lives.  That is mumped.  That is mumped in such a huge way that it cannot be overstated.

He had a bad day, among many I am sure he had, and had access to something that allowed him to ruin thousands of lives.  If it means Jimmy pistol lover in Oklahoma can't own 35 Glocks, I'm happy to hurt his feelings.

Move to pit

Only read the bold section then stopped reading because I agree completely.   I have to wonder if the same things that are causing unwanted pregnancies to be aborted, countless suicides caused by depression, domestic disputes/violence, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, sex abuse, various other addictions and whatever disgusting thing within our society are all created by the same things that cause such a horrendous event that occurred today.   

A total paradigm shift is needed.  Emphasis needs to be put on creating healthy environments for kids to grow up in so that these things don't happen. At the very least people taking individual responsibility to have a positive impact on single parent families/ families in poverty/etc.   It's clear there is a sickness in our society that leads people down these horrible paths and the only thing I can think to fix any of these tragedies to reach out to our own kids - our neighbors kids - our nieces & nephews and allow them to feel what it's like to be loved unconditionally.  Allow them to have a positive influence in their life - someone to go to when they're troubled or in need of help to sort out their depression, anxiety, & anger.  We can't turn our back on anyone and we need to eliminate the hypocrisy in our society.  We can't teach our kids that hitting is wrong and simultaneously support violence in any other form.

Not that I disagree, but how does this happen? Particularly inner city. You can't legislate shitty parenting away.

Be the change.  You can't legislate ANY of this away, and I would have thought today's events would make this more evident. There are laws in place that should have prevented this, but they didn't.  I don't see how more laws would help.  Maybe all of the things I posted above are exemplified by people's incessant need to legislate things because they are either too lazy to take steps in their own world to make life better or too untrusting of other people to pull their own load.  Theres no personal accountability - We externalize so much and I see this as a main cause to events such as these.  I see people clamoring for legislation as just another sign of this externalizing.  Feels like a symptom to a horrible illness bigger than anybody will admit to.

[steve dave]

So because tragedies happen all the time everywhere, we shouldn't try to do anything to prevent them?

you can go back and read my response to mir regarding tradeoffs between liberties and safety.  i'm not going to type it out again.

do you ridicule reaction to all tragedies if they aren't the biggest tragedy or is there some cutoff where they are big enough to qualify a reaction according to sys?

[steve dave]

we can absolutely legislate guns away

[JohnCurrie is Weird/Gross]

I mean, we had a national conversation and banned 4 Loko in what? 3 weeks? Lets do that with assault rifles.

This guy left his rifle in his car, what exactly would an assault rifle ban done to prevent this?

Never said an assault ban would've prevented this tragedy. Was speaking to a larger point, the status quo in this country is not acceptable. Is this an unsolvable problem? Maybe...but policy makers in this country have to do SOMETHING. The gun violence in America is out of control. Everything needs to be on the table.

[Barry McCockner]

How many children died of malaria today in the world?  Don't dare suggest that we start producing DDT and shipping it to Africa though.

ddt is banned in the us, and severely restricted worldwide.  even though use of ddt can prevent some human deaths, it has other consequences which are considered to also have importance.  good example.

If by "some" you mean "hundreds of thousands" and by "other consequences which are considered to also have importance" you mean "the possible extinction of a bunch of species no one would miss", you are correct.

But lets spend shitloads of time, money, and media coverage on trying to ban guns in the US, because apparently 20 kids in the US and some  bats and frogs are more important than millions of people in Africa.

[puniraptor]

We have to figure out a way so some disturbed idiot who has a bad day and decides "eff it" cannot massacre 20 little kids by just squeezing a trigger.  We simply have to.  I don't want your goddam guns, I have hunting guns myself but eff, this guy just got mad and had access to killing machines that allowed him to freak out and kill 20 little kids with so little effort or planning.

Read again, 20 little kids watched some psycho train a pistol on them and end their lives.  That is mumped.  That is mumped in such a huge way that it cannot be overstated.

He had a bad day, among many I am sure he had, and had access to something that allowed him to ruin thousands of lives.  If it means Jimmy pistol lover in Oklahoma can't own 35 Glocks, I'm happy to hurt his feelings.

Move to pit

Only read the bold section then stopped reading because I agree completely.   I have to wonder if the same things that are causing unwanted pregnancies to be aborted, countless suicides caused by depression, domestic disputes/violence, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, sex abuse, various other addictions and whatever disgusting thing within our society are all created by the same things that cause such a horrendous event that occurred today.   

A total paradigm shift is needed.  Emphasis needs to be put on creating healthy environments for kids to grow up in so that these things don't happen. At the very least people taking individual responsibility to have a positive impact on single parent families/ families in poverty/etc.   It's clear there is a sickness in our society that leads people down these horrible paths and the only thing I can think to fix any of these tragedies to reach out to our own kids - our neighbors kids - our nieces & nephews and allow them to feel what it's like to be loved unconditionally.  Allow them to have a positive influence in their life - someone to go to when they're troubled or in need of help to sort out their depression, anxiety, & anger.  We can't turn our back on anyone and we need to eliminate the hypocrisy in our society.  We can't teach our kids that hitting is wrong and simultaneously support violence in any other form.

Not that I disagree, but how does this happen? Particularly inner city. You can't legislate shitty parenting away.

Be the change.  You can't legislate ANY of this away, and I would have thought today's events would make this more evident. There are laws in place that should have prevented this, but they didn't.  I don't see how more laws would help.  Maybe all of the things I posted above are exemplified by people's incessant need to legislate things because they are either too lazy to take steps in their own world to make life better or too untrusting of other people to pull their own load.  Theres no personal accountability - We externalize so much and I see this as a main cause to events such as these.  I see people clamoring for legislation as just another sign of this externalizing.  Feels like a symptom to a horrible illness bigger than anybody will admit to.

What laws are in place that could have prevented this? The laws against committing murder?

[HeinBallz]

we can absolutely legislate guns away

:smh:  guns do not = violence

If your goal is to eliminate gun violence, then fine.  What about all violence? these tragedies can be carried out with many different tools.

[sys]

steve dave, i'm not ridiculing reaction.  i'm arguing for context.  9-11 was a horrible tragedy, but i think most people, at least most of the left-wing libertarians that frequent this board, can agree that the dept of homeland security and random country invading response was expensive, ineffective and destructive.

intellect, not emotion.  in all things.

[steve dave]

If your goal is to eliminate gun violence, then fine.  What about all violence? these tragedies can be carried out with many different tools.

yeah, I am very fine with this. start with the big ones and work down the list.

[sys]

If by "some" you mean "hundreds of thousands" and by "other consequences which are considered to also have importance" you mean "the possible extinction of a bunch of species no one would miss", you are correct.

hey, every now and again we get one right.