Another school shooting

[Trim]

Along the lines of when it's said that you're safer flying on an airplane than riding in a car, where now does "going to school" fall in the spectrum of mundane things that carry risk of death?

[Dugout DickStone]

Along the lines of when it's said that you're safer flying on an airplane than riding in a car, where now does "going to school" fall in the spectrum of mundane things that carry risk of death?

I wonder what the difference in reaction would be if the number of plane crash deaths were 1/2 of the blown away by an AR as you sat in social studies deaths

[Rage Against the McKee]

Along the lines of when it's said that you're safer flying on an airplane than riding in a car, where now does "going to school" fall in the spectrum of mundane things that carry risk of death?

Risk of death is still extremely low, but I think the risk of having to hide in the closet while teachers and other kids you know get slaughtered is getting to be uncomfortably high.

[michigancat]

this one isn't that rare or grizzly, is it? We are basically guaranteed a couple a year, it's just the new reality.

A 28 year old going into an elementary school to kill kids?  That doesn't happen all that often.  Certainly not 650 times a year or whatever.

yeah school shootings are fairly comparable to hurricanes hitting land in terms of frequency in the US. Like they will get mentioned on the news but aren't really a surprise.

[DQ12]

this one isn't that rare or grizzly, is it? We are basically guaranteed a couple a year, it's just the new reality.

A 28 year old going into an elementary school to kill kids?  That doesn't happen all that often.  Certainly not 650 times a year or whatever.

yeah school shootings are fairly comparable to hurricanes hitting land in terms of frequency in the US. Like they will get mentioned on the news but aren't really a surprise.

I'm always a bit surprised when it's an adult going in and doing it for whatever reason.

Just rough ridin' terrible.

[OK_Cat]

This shooting will be off the news cycle by Monday morning and we’ll go back to worrying about Tik Tok. Sad but very true.


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[Pete]

I'm bringing up gender because up to this point there have been zero female school shooters.  I find that to be very relevant to understanding the phenomenon of these types of crimes.

[wetwillie]

Are you saying males have a higher capacity for violence Pete?

[sonofdaxjones]

I'm fascinated by the concept of this alleged genocide against trans people, where apparently the population having these atrocities committed against them are able, if they chose to so . . . are able to purchase a seemingly endless amount of assault weapons and ammunition (a process that I am adamantly against BTW).

Why does #bleanon/#blueanongE want to avoid this discussion?  You consistently meltdown about the messaging propagated by a few right wing groups that you claim leads to gun violence, but you sit back and just accept the propagation of this completely false and utterly unfounded narrative that's being seeded across multiple communities that a "genocide" is being committed against the trans and LBGTQ community and thus, they have to go out and apparently buy lots of guns. 

Not getting your way on every little thing is not genocide, it's not even close to that.

[Pete]

Are you saying males have a higher capacity for violence Pete?

That's very well settled already by the numbers on violent crime offenders and universally acknowledged across all political systems and cultures....but it's not the point in this particular thread.

There is only one unique factor on this particular school shooting known to the public so far, and that is the shooter was born a female.  To our knowledge this has NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.  Is there a more relevant factor to consider?

[BIG APPLE CAT]

I'm bringing up gender because up to this point there have been zero female school shooters.  I find that to be very relevant to understanding the phenomenon of these types of crimes.

Statistically speaking, a female shooter is going to be inevitable. Yes it will be exceedingly rare, but it will happen from time to time.

[Pete]

This is an internet blog and not the FBI, but I'd bet my net worth that the FBI folks who study this sort of thing are definitely contemplating the significance of the shooters birth sex and their gender identity.  So, seems fair game for this internet blog.

[star seed 7]

Dax turning every thread into the transphobic grievance hour is not the content I come to gE for

[wetwillie]

Are you saying males have a higher capacity for violence Pete?

That's very well settled already by the numbers on violent crime offenders and universally acknowledged across all political systems and cultures....but it's not the point in this particular thread.

There is only one unique factor on this particular school shooting known to the public so far, and that is the shooter was born a female.  To our knowledge this has NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.  Is there a more relevant factor to consider?

I think I had this backwards, for some reason I thought the shooter was a male that transitioned to a female.

[Pete]

Shooter was born female (e.g. played women's basketball in school), then transitioned later as an adult.  We do not know if they completed their transition biologically. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Dax turning every thread into the transphobic grievance hour is not the content I come to gE for

Just more deflection for StalkerBot.7

Only the lowest of IQ people want to believe or think that it's a "transphobic grievance" and it's precisely that kind of bullshit that has convinced a community of people that a genocide is being committed against them and thus they have to go buy the things that most of #blueanongE hates . . . guns.

Congratulations (again) on being part of the problem StalkerBot.7

[wetwillie]

Shooter was born female (e.g. played women's basketball in school), then transitioned later as an adult.  We do not know if they completed their transition biologically. 

Definitely a unique scenario then in regards to a mass shooter. 

[nicname]

Shooter was born female (e.g. played women's basketball in school), then transitioned later as an adult.  We do not know if they completed their transition biologically.

Seems a fair question to ask, Pete.

Imo, the shooter growing up in what I can imagine is a pretty rigid, if not near Calvinist Presby home, church and school, then living the past several years in our divided, often isolated, hyper-politicized world, led to what is undoubtedly a targeted attack.

Understanding this, wondering about the effect of possible hormone treatments is reasonable imo.

Note: Wanting to understand the motive of these shootings is generally reasonable and justifiable, whether it be Dylan Roof shooting up a black church, the unhinged colorado nightclub shooter, the orlando nightclub shooter, or this person shooting up a christian school.

[sys]

I'm bringing up gender because up to this point there have been zero female school shooters.  I find that to be very relevant to understanding the phenomenon of these types of crimes.

agree with pete.  a female mass killer is exceedingly rare.  if this person was taking hormones that approximated those of a young male, then it is easier to fit this event into the pattern that we are familiar with, because the overwhelming majority of people that do these things are young males.

[MakeItRain]

I'm really not paying attention to this, but if people are bringing up transgender in this situation, it seems exactly the same as people bringing up homosexuality in cases of pedophilia.

Like, it's more than just subject changing, distraction, or scapegoating. It's opportunistic, unjustified villainization of minority groups they hate.

If the person's gender identity (or any other characteristic) informed their motive/target (which, I think it's probably too early to tell one way or the other), I don't know why bringing it up would be unjustified.

Saying with certainty that the trans element of this is important seems speculative.  But saying, with certainty, that it isn't seems speculative at this point too imo.

With the evidence we do have, pretty safe to say it's not a trend.

I don't know why "killing elementary school kids" needs to be a trend before we consider/talk about why it happened in this instance.  If we shouldn't ever talk about killer's motive (short of it becoming a trend) then that's a fine position to take if you want to I guess.

If gender identity hasn't been a motive in other shootings, I'm not sure why it needs to be considered now, until we see some concrete evidence, namely in this manifesto, that indicates otherwise.

When we get today's mass shooting by a cisgender male, will anyone suspect they committed the shooting because of their internalized rage with an inability to come out because society isn't accepting? That would be silly ass crap. Just because this person is suspected trans, I will reiterated for the third time that we know next to nothing about what this supposed transition entailed, that doesn't mean that this person's gender identity is a motive.

Not that we have to worry about this but setting the precedent that any trans person that commits a mass shooting should have their gender identity explored as an element of the crime, just because of how they identify, is absolutely discrimination.

[Spracne]

Very predictable that the conversation, here and elsewhere, has been successfully shifted to trans rather than guns. As for me, I will wait for more info.

[MakeItRain]

I can't believe we're actually talking about this. This is one of those areas that white male privilege is absolutely bears out. This is why when these things happen, people within minority groups hope the perp isn't one of them. A part of the narrative always becomes a discussion about the group said person belongs to. This literally never happens with white men. We acknowledge that nearly all mass shooters are white men, but then there's no commentary about how why being a white man played into the act and why we should or shouldn't fear all white men. This is particularly an issue when a stereotype affirming crime happens, it's really rough ridin' grating.

[MakeItRain]

Very predictable that the conversation, here and elsewhere, has been successfully shifted to trans rather than guns. As for me, I will wait for more info.

Amen. Having this discussion without knowing anything at all about how even Audrey Hale viewed her/him/themselves is incredibly aggravating and I honestly can't believe people here are doing it.

[michigancat]

I can't believe we're actually talking about this. This is one of those areas that white male privilege is absolutely bears out. This is why when these things happen, people within minority groups hope the perp isn't one of them. A part of the narrative always becomes a discussion about the group said person belongs to. This literally never happens with white men. We acknowledge that nearly all mass shooters are white men, but then there's no commentary about how why being a white man played into the act and why we should or shouldn't fear all white men. This is particularly an issue when a stereotype affirming crime happens, it's really rough ridin' grating.

https://twitter.com/zackfox/status/1036389932854652928

https://twitter.com/avantnard/status/1378113979365609481

[DQ12]

Very predictable that the conversation, here and elsewhere, has been successfully shifted to trans rather than guns. As for me, I will wait for more info.

I think it shifted here because nobody here is really arguing against gun restrictions.

Very predictable that the conversation, here and elsewhere, has been successfully shifted to trans rather than guns. As for me, I will wait for more info.

Amen. Having this discussion without knowing anything at all about how even Audrey Hale viewed her/him/themselves is incredibly aggravating and I honestly can't believe people here are doing it.

I don't get your point on this.  Police said the killer was trans.