Another school shooting

[michigancat]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.   

Why can't it be like automobile registration? Auto owners have to pay their own registration fees. You have to pay to get a driver's license. Gun owners should have to pay similarly, but some of the burden of regulation would be carried by society, just like with cars.

[Emo EMAW]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.   

Why can't it be like automobile registration? Auto owners have to pay their own registration fees. You have to pay to get a driver's license. Gun owners should have to pay similarly, but some of the burden of regulation would be carried by society, just like with cars.

The benefit of this legislation is allegedly to society.  Not just gun owners.  That's why. 

[michigancat]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.   

Why can't it be like automobile registration? Auto owners have to pay their own registration fees. You have to pay to get a driver's license. Gun owners should have to pay similarly, but some of the burden of regulation would be carried by society, just like with cars.

The benefit of this legislation is allegedly to society.  Not just gun owners.  That's why.

Are you saying automobile safety doesn't benefit society? Also, non-drivers pay for safer roads, just not as much as automobile owners.

[Emo EMAW]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.   

Why can't it be like automobile registration? Auto owners have to pay their own registration fees. You have to pay to get a driver's license. Gun owners should have to pay similarly, but some of the burden of regulation would be carried by society, just like with cars.

The benefit of this legislation is allegedly to society.  Not just gun owners.  That's why.

Are you saying automobile safety doesn't benefit society? Also, non-drivers pay for safer roads, just not as much as automobile owners.

I don't really care about precedent.  I'm just saying that if the cost is laid to gun owners at a higher proportion than the rest of society then I am 100% against any new legislation.  Deal breaker, as I said.

[puniraptor]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.   

Why can't it be like automobile registration? Auto owners have to pay their own registration fees. You have to pay to get a driver's license. Gun owners should have to pay similarly, but some of the burden of regulation would be carried by society, just like with cars.

The benefit of this legislation is allegedly to society.  Not just gun owners.  That's why.

Are you saying automobile safety doesn't benefit society? Also, non-drivers pay for safer roads, just not as much as automobile owners.

I don't really care about precedent.  I'm just saying that if the cost is laid to gun owners at a higher proportion than the rest of society then I am 100% against any new legislation.  Deal breaker, as I said.

but people are getting blasted left and right so gun owners can experience the luxury of sport or protection or insurgence or play army or whatever. isn't it fair that they bear the burden for preventing the carnage?

[Panjandrum]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.

What gun owners have to pay is the least of my concerns, personally.  We tax the crap out of smokers, and they're killing themselves.  I have to go to a pharmacist to buy Sudafed because people make meth out of it.

Why not tax the crap out of, and make it a pain in the ass, to own an instrument of death?  Why not prosecute someone that doesn't report a "stolen" gun that is used to harm someone else?

Let people have the right to a gun.  Just make it a bitch to own and license.  That will decrease the number of guns out there.

[michigancat]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.

What gun owners have to pay is the least of my concerns, personally.  We tax the crap out of smokers, and they're killing themselves.  I have to go to a pharmacist to buy Sudafed because people make meth out of it.

Why not tax the crap out of, and make it a pain in the ass, to own an instrument of death?  Why not prosecute someone that doesn't report a "stolen" gun that is used to harm someone else?

Let people have the right to a gun.  Just make it a bitch to own and license.  That will decrease the number of guns out there.

It would also increase the responsibility of gun owners.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.

What gun owners have to pay is the least of my concerns, personally.  We tax the crap out of smokers, and they're killing themselves.  I have to go to a pharmacist to buy Sudafed because people make meth out of it.

Why not tax the crap out of, and make it a pain in the ass, to own an instrument of death?  Why not prosecute someone that doesn't report a "stolen" gun that is used to harm someone else?

Let people have the right to a gun.  Just make it a bitch to own and license.  That will decrease the number of guns out there.

It would also increase the responsibility of gun owners.

It would just increase the numbers of illegal guns and open up another black market.

[06wildcat]

How about decriminalizing non-violent drug offenses and instituting a mandatory minimum of 15 years for a felon in possession of a firearm.

[michigancat]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.

What gun owners have to pay is the least of my concerns, personally.  We tax the crap out of smokers, and they're killing themselves.  I have to go to a pharmacist to buy Sudafed because people make meth out of it.

Why not tax the crap out of, and make it a pain in the ass, to own an instrument of death?  Why not prosecute someone that doesn't report a "stolen" gun that is used to harm someone else?

Let people have the right to a gun.  Just make it a bitch to own and license.  That will decrease the number of guns out there.

It would also increase the responsibility of gun owners.

It would just increase the numbers of illegal guns and open up another black market.

I don't think so. There is already a huge black market for criminals who get guns via law abiding citizens. Law abiding citizens would be less likely to sell guns to criminals if they had to go through a registered middle-man, (which you suggested - great idea).

[wetwillie]

How about decriminalizing non-violent drug offenses and instituting a mandatory minimum of 15 years for a felon in possession of a firearm.

Slow-clap

[Panjandrum]

How about decriminalizing non-violent drug offenses and instituting a mandatory minimum of 15 years for a felon in possession of a firearm.

I like this.

Tax them, hassle them, and jail them.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

michigancat, I could maybe get on board if society in general were to fund whatever the regulation should deem necessary.  Putting it all on the backs of gun owners is a deal breaker for me.

What gun owners have to pay is the least of my concerns, personally.  We tax the crap out of smokers, and they're killing themselves.  I have to go to a pharmacist to buy Sudafed because people make meth out of it.

Why not tax the crap out of, and make it a pain in the ass, to own an instrument of death?  Why not prosecute someone that doesn't report a "stolen" gun that is used to harm someone else?

Let people have the right to a gun.  Just make it a bitch to own and license.  That will decrease the number of guns out there.

It would also increase the responsibility of gun owners.

It would just increase the numbers of illegal guns and open up another black market.

I don't think so. There is already a huge black market for criminals who get guns via law abiding citizens. Law abiding citizens would be less likely to sell guns to criminals if they had to go through a registered middle-man, (which you suggested - great idea).

But I also said the cost to do so should not be so high as to be punitive. If you want people to follow the proper registration and purchasing rules, it needs to be affordable. I agree with the greater responsibility for crimes committed with a gun registered to you if you don't report it stolen immediately.

[michigancat]

I don't think the fees need to be punitive, either. Definitely not beyond the costs required.

[Emo EMAW]

Do you guys realize guns are already taxed more than just like sales tax?  Ever heard of Pittman Robertson Act? 

I'm sorry, it's just not fair to tax responsible gun owners.  I'm all for heavier fines and stiffer penalties and what not.  The irresponsible will get what's coming to them.  This is a state's rights issue to me anyways.

You want less guns?  Then chill out!  You have no idea how many people have bought guns since Obama won the first election, simply out of fear.  Smith and Wesson has done everything they can to produce as many AR-15's as possible in response to these calls for legislation.  It's stupid, sure, but it is what it is.

[Paul Moscow]

Do you guys realize guns are already taxed more than just like sales tax?  Ever heard of Pittman Robertson Act? 

I'm sorry, it's just not fair to tax responsible gun owners.  I'm all for heavier fines and stiffer penalties and what not.  The irresponsible will get what's coming to them.  This is a state's rights issue to me anyways.

You want less guns?  Then chill out!  You have no idea how many people have bought guns since Obama won the first election, simply out of fear.  Smith and Wesson has done everything they can to produce as many AR-15's as possible in response to these calls for legislation.  It's stupid, sure, but it is what it is.

Someone who purchases a weapon designed to hurl lead bullets through a body out of an irrational fear of the non-existent (gun confiscation, home invasion, etc) is by definition not a responsible person as that gun is exponentially MORE likely to bring that person and his immediate family harm not to mention society, than to be used for self-defense.

There are 3 basic rules for gun ownership, no? 1) Always keep the gun unloaded unti ready to use 2) Always treat the gun as if it were loaded 3) Never point that gun at anyone or anything unless you are about to shoot.

Just recently at gun shows attended by self-described responsible gun owners,

 

a 36-year-old man from Wilmington, North Carolina, was unfastening the case of his 12-gauge shotgun on a table near the show entrance when it accidentally discharged. The man planned to sell the shotgun at the show.

A person is in stable condition at a northern Ohio hospital after being shot by his business partner at a gun show run by Conrad and Dowdell Productions, said Medina police Chief Patrick Berarducci.
The original owner of the Taurus semi-automatic 9 mm handgun used in the shooting brought the firearm into the show fully loaded. This is despite the policy of searches to make sure all guns are not loaded and rendered safe before others can handle them.

And in Indianapolis, a man walking out of the Indy 1500 Gun and Knife Show shot himself in the hand as he was loading his .45-caliber semi-automatic firearm, Indiana State Police said in a statement.

Face it, humans and all our infallibility can't f*cking control owning guns.

[Emo EMAW]

How do you propose to separate the wheat from the chaff?  I don't think you're suggesting denying someone their Constitutional rights, are you?

[Emo EMAW]

And this is where I could, but won't, post several anecdotal stories of times people have lost their lives because someone decided their text message was more important than watching the road.  Which happens WAY more often than accidental shooting deaths occur.

[michigancat]

How do you propose to separate the wheat from the chaff?  I don't think you're suggesting denying someone their Constitutional rights, are you?

education/licensing requirements for gun owners, all guns being registered, all sales going through a regulated third party.

[bigwillie20]

Breaking News ?@BreakingNews
Reports of a shooting at Atlanta, Georgia, middle school; follow updates here - http://bit.ly/Th6byw

[Paul Moscow]

How do you propose to separate the wheat from the chaff?  I don't think you're suggesting denying someone their Constitutional rights, are you?

The constitution has already and will continue to be amended. Please stop pretending like it's sacrosanct. In this particular example someone convicted of a violent felony or someone who is mentally unstable is denied their constitutional right to own a firearm. Are you suggesting that this is an egregious violation of the constitution? You can't yell fire in a movie theater, is this a violation of your first amendment? The third amendment has never even had a case filed against it....because it's f*cking irrelevant.

Let's say though that you forget this but are still a strict constitutionalist, which I guess you are. How has the "right" to individual possession of guns and all the violence, murder, shootings, rapes, and so on, not trampled over your first amendment right to peacefully assemble or your fourth amendment right "of the people to be secure in their persons". Are you simply willing to forgo one right for another? And, if so, why the f*ck would a responsible person choose guns?

[Emo EMAW]

How do you propose to separate the wheat from the chaff?  I don't think you're suggesting denying someone their Constitutional rights, are you?

The constitution has already and will continue to be amended. Please stop pretending like it's sacrosanct. In this particular example someone convicted of a violent felony or someone who is mentally unstable is denied their constitutional right to own a firearm. Are you suggesting that this is an egregious violation of the constitution? You can't yell fire in a movie theater, is this a violation of your first amendment? The third amendment has never even had a case filed against it....because it's f*cking irrelevant.

Let's say though that you forget this but are still a strict constitutionalist, which I guess you are. How has the "right" to individual possession of guns and all the violence, murder, shootings, rapes, and so on, not trampled over your first amendment right to peacefully assemble or your fourth amendment right "of the people to be secure in their persons". Are you simply willing to forgo one right for another? And, if so, why the f*ck would a responsible person choose guns?

You lost me here.  Plz rephrase.

[Emo EMAW]

How do you propose to separate the wheat from the chaff?  I don't think you're suggesting denying someone their Constitutional rights, are you?

education/licensing requirements for gun owners, all guns being registered, all sales going through a regulated third party.

Are you suggesting that people who go through driver's education never had a car accident?

Some of the above I could get on board with, but not if all the expense came at the hands of gun owners. 

In addition, not one of you ever acknowledged guns and ammo are already taxed an additional 11%.  Probably weren't aware of it?   

[Emo EMAW]

Have you guys seen this?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/17/guns-convicted-felon-murderer/1566414/

Step 1 ought to be enforcing the laws we already have.  The federal government has offered money to help states get compliant but it's still not working. 

[steve dave]

amend the constitution to ban guns. we already amended it once to allow them. it's not really very complicated. screaming that it's not an option is a pretty shitty argument.