KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: ScubaSteve on June 22, 2007, 10:02:43 AM
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I've been thinking about this and looking back at the Butler article and at some of J-Mart's posts about it and maybe I've been wrong.
After reading pretty much all of Jeff's articles and the way he reports, it's pretty hard for me to believe that he could keep himself from asking Butler about all of the Kansas kids on scholarship and the kids we've already offered this year after the outlandish statements that Butler made. You can tell he just likes asking that uncomfortable question, just like most reporters.
I offer the possibility that Jeff was simply unaware of Prince's history regarding Kansas kids. I know that is hard to believe also, seeing as how Jeff is such a good beat writer we would think he would know the roster inside and out. I can see though he would hate to admit his ignorance, because well, it is kind of bad if he didn't know this, but I offer this post from Jeff as evidence. This is what Jeff posted prior to his article coming out. Does this sound like a man who disagrees with what Butler stated? Perhaps Jeff's pride just won't allow him to admit how truly ignorant he really was.
Jeffrey_Martin
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Re: let's talk "Potential Players"...
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2007, 09:22:52 pm » Quote
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Read my notebook tomorrow. You'll understand a little better where Brian is coming from. Trust, he's a good dude. He makes a lot of good points. I can understand why you guys are bothered, but Hatter is right. The big-time schools knew about the Browns. They weren't going to remain a secret - even though Dave Krider freaking called the Eagle today looking for contact info about Arthur Brown, unaware he had a little brother who is a superstar, too. Thing is, Butler wants this to continue, the Wichita pipeline. Again, as Hatter said, the talent might dry up after next year. But with the training these guys do under Butler, there is always going to be at least one or two Division I prospects every year - if only to keep relations with Butler strong.
The entire article in the paper is about how KSU and ku snub Kansas kids. What good points did Butler make?
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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?
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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?
I so owned you in the Cole Aldrich video thread. You didn't respond.. :'(
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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?
Fitz is worthless.
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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?
When was the last time Fitz interviewed anyone?
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Fitz = Norm from Cheers. Unless you live within easy driving distance of aggieville, you can't ask Fitz anything. His ass has been superglued to that barstool.
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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?
I so owned you in the Cole Aldrich video thread. You didn't respond.. :'(
i saw that. it was a tie.
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Well, I see I look kind of silly. I went to Jeff's Q&A and see he kind of addresses this issue. I'm really not sure I believe it though. I'm still confused why Butler's response to all the Kansas RB's was not included in the article and more importantly, what good points did Butler make?
Here's the article for those who want to guess at what those good points are.
Sometimes an in-state football player is too good to stay
No one will believe him, which is why Brian Butler is compelled to explain.
"I love K-State," he said.
He has attended Kansas State football games since his freshman year of high school. His little brother, Rashad Jackson, played briefly for the Wildcats. His unofficial count of K-State games is at 50, and he has tailgated in Manhattan nearly as many times.
"Some of the best in the country," he said.
But, as some might find this hard to believe, this isn't about Butler. He said he is simply an advisor and a trainer, in either order, and two of his highest-profile clients just happen to be East High's Arthur and Bryce Brown, who could be the nation's top overall talents in the classes of 2008 and 2009.
In his mind, his role is well-defined, yet skepticism persists.
He's become a polarizing figure among football fans within the state, despite his pro-Kansas (or pro-Wichita) stance. Arthur Brown, a senior-to-be, has scholarship offers from 50 schools, but he recently slashed the list to 23 -- with K-State and Kansas making the cut. Butler speaks warmly of both programs; but for some die-hard fans, that's not enough.
The thinking goes, if he's as pro-Kansas (or pro-Wichita) as he seems, why not funnel the prospects he advises and works with to the in-state programs? Why not keep the home-grown talent home?
"If you're not getting negative criticism, you're not doing something right," Butler said. "All I'm trying to do is something positive. I told Arthur straight up a long time ago, this decision is his. I'll give my opinion, but it's his call."
He admits to having an issue with K-State, but it's a legitimate beef. His argument is that the talent in Wichita or elsewhere in Kansas is just as good as the talent elsewhere, but K-State and ku have historically never embraced this notion.
According to Butler, the logic in the past was why take a chance on a second-tier prospect from Kansas when a passed-over, fourth-tier kid from Texas was available? Send the Kansan to a junior college --"the farm system," Butler said -- and take the Texan, if for no other reason than perception.
Butler -- and both Browns -- take exception with such logic, which was prevalent under Bill Snyder but still exists now with Ron Prince.
Consider the case of Kapaun Mount Carmel running back Frank Delarue, whom the Browns have trained with. Neither in-state school offered a scholarship to Delarue, an All-Class 5A selection. He had interest from a few Mid-American Conference schools, but he decided to walk-on at K-State, where his brother, Tysyn Hartman, will be a third-string freshman quarterback this fall.
"I know Frank is a better back than some of the guys (K-State) signed, but he's not good enough for a scholarship," Butler said. "That hurt (the Browns') feelings. That was a guy who they knew was a good football player. They looked at other kids' tape on Rivals.com and Frank's highlight tape is much better. We don't understand.
"It put a bad taste in their mouth, and I told Coach Prince this."
Butler doesn't think this surge in Wichita talent is a fluke. There will be plenty more prospects in the future, and the in-state schools need to change their approach.
"It's just the perception of Kansas football," he said. "It's wrong. The home state should be the backbone of the program. I like Coach Prince and (James) Franklin, I really do. But the only hard feelings I have is how they've treated our kids and not given them the benefit of the doubt, the way they do with kids from Texas and Florida."
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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.
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Longest post of all time
LPOAT
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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.
What, like handing him a wad of sweaty cash? Wake up Rusty.
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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.
What, like handing him a wad of sweaty cash?
Does it have to be sweaty? Good idea though. Begin gathering money. Start with Garth..tell him it's for a Cabela's gift certificate.
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Here's the article for those who want to guess at what those good points are.
I found them!
"Some of the best in the country," he said.
"I told Arthur straight up a long time ago, this decision is his."
"It's his call."
"I know Frank is [...] not good enough for a scholarship," Butler said.
kono
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Here's the article for those who want to guess at what those good points are.
I found them!
"Some of the best in the country," he said.
"I told Arthur straight up a long time ago, this decision is his."
"It's his call."
"I know Frank is [...] not good enough for a scholarship," Butler said.
kono
Anybody want to take a serious stab at it?
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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.
What, like handing him a wad of sweaty cash? Wake up Rusty.
How about calling him once in a while?
How about attending the workout session that Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, and Pete Carrol could muster up the time to fly across the country to attend?
Just a couple ideas.
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A wad of sweaty cash wouldn't hurt, either, BTW.
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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.
What, like handing him a wad of sweaty cash? Wake up Rusty.
How about calling him once in a while?
How about attending the workout session that Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, and Pete Carrol could muster up the time to fly across the country to attend?
Just a couple ideas.
Oh so now you have access to their phone records?
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A wad of sweaty cash wouldn't hurt, either, BTW.
Wouldn't matter. Pete Carroll, Bob Stoops, and Urban Meyer have bigger wads.
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Oh so now you have access to their phone records?
Well, you could FOIA (http://deadspin.com/sports/college-football/ever-wonder-who-houston-nutt-talks-to-todays-your-lucky-day-249866.php) Prince.
kono
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Still waiting for what good points Mr. Butler made in that article. I suppose it would be easiest if Jeff would answer. Oh wait. No one can answer, because he didn't make any good points.
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The home state should be the backbone of the program
http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3062 (http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3062)
seams to me there is a lot of kansas talent on that roster...
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Still waiting for what good points Mr. Butler made in that article. I suppose it would be easiest if Jeff would answer. Oh wait. No one can answer, because he didn't make any good points.
Maybe you should stop being a pussy and link to ksufans.com on wabash instead of copying and pasting.
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Still waiting for what good points Mr. Butler made in that article. I suppose it would be easiest if Jeff would answer. Oh wait. No one can answer, because he didn't make any good points.
According to Butler, the logic in the past was why take a chance on a second-tier prospect from Kansas when a passed-over, fourth-tier kid from Texas was available? Send the Kansan to a junior college --"the farm system," Butler said -- and take the Texan, if for no other reason than perception.
Butler -- and both Browns -- take exception with such logic, which was prevalent under Bill Snyder but still exists now with Ron Prince.
I think that was a legitimate point. Bill did do that on occassion to some second tier Kansas kids. I played with a guy who was told by the KSU staff to go to a JUCO or walk on. I think that Prince is getting away from that.
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Butler -- and both Browns -- take exception with such logic, which was prevalent under Bill Snyder but still exists now with Ron Prince.[/quote]
Retraction? JMART?
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was cuba really tier I?
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was cuba really tier I?
I never thought so.
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Was Mac Rosel tier one?
:peek:
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Still waiting for what good points Mr. Butler made in that article. I suppose it would be easiest if Jeff would answer. Oh wait. No one can answer, because he didn't make any good points.
Maybe you should stop being a pussy and link to ksufans.com on wabash instead of copying and pasting.
What happened to the old fatty? You just don't seem like you are having fun any more. Are you having problems at home?
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What happened to tax season?
It can't get here fast enough.......
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What happened to tax season?
It can't get here fast enough.......
screw you man i live w/ 2 accountants
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"According to Butler, the logic in the past was why take a chance on a second-tier prospect from Kansas when a passed-over, fourth-tier kid from Texas was available? Send the Kansan to a junior college --"the farm system," Butler said -- and take the Texan, if for no other reason than perception.
Butler -- and both Browns -- take exception with such logic, which was prevalent under Bill Snyder but still exists now with Ron Prince."
I'm not a jouralist, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. However, I have to believe if I was in Jeffrey Martin's place when that statement is made I would ask for some examples. Examples other than Frank Delarue, which really isn't even an example itself (as it doesn't match the parameters laid out). Was that question asked, and what was the response? I essentially asked this question before in a previous thread and it was not answered. If this was so prevalent under Snyder and Prince there should be numerous examples. If the question was asked, why isn't there something in the article about that answer?
From Las Vegas I'll call this article what it appears to be...a kiss-up piece to Butler, and illegitimate hit piece on K-State football.
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This @#%$ was like two weeks ago. Why are we still bitching about it? I'm sure Jeff didn't want to piss off Brian Butler and ruin any kind of connection that he might have in the future with him. I don't see a problem in Jeff just writing what Butler said. It's not like he agreed with him (much). Let's just give this @#%$ a rest.
People are just upset at the way Prince is f'ing up a possible golden situation with Butler and using Martin as a way to vent.
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This @#%$ was like two weeks ago. Why are we still bitching about it? I'm sure Jeff didn't want to piss off Brian Butler and ruin any kind of connection that he might have in the future with him. I don't see a problem in Jeff just writing what Butler said. It's not like he agreed with him (much). Let's just give this @#%$ a rest.
People are just upset at the way Prince is f'ing up a possible golden situation with Butler and using Martin as a way to vent.
Prince has an email address...
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"People are just upset at the way Prince is f'ing up a possible golden situation with Butler and using Martin as a way to vent."
Looks to me more like Martin is acting more like Butler's Minister of Propaganda! You are spinning this a bit yourself Rusty. Can you provide me with this list of players who Butler is speaking of?
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"People are just upset at the way Prince is f'ing up a possible golden situation with Butler and using Martin as a way to vent."
Looks to me more like Martin is acting more like Butler's Minister of Propaganda! You are spinning this a bit yourself Rusty. Can you provide me with this list of players who Butler is speaking of?
It doesn't matter if Butler is jaded or not. That's not the point you were making. You were bagging on J-Mart for the article when it wasn't J-Mart's job to contradict him. He has said numerous times on here and on his Q&A that Butler is off base so why is it such a big deal that the article didn't include that?
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"People are just upset at the way Prince is f'ing up a possible golden situation with Butler and using Martin as a way to vent."
Looks to me more like Martin is acting more like Butler's Minister of Propaganda! You are spinning this a bit yourself Rusty. Can you provide me with this list of players who Butler is speaking of?
It doesn't matter if Butler is jaded or not. That's not the point you were making. You were bagging on J-Mart for the article when it wasn't J-Mart's job to contradict him. He has said numerous times on here and on his Q&A that Butler is off base so why is it such a big deal that the article didn't include that?
The problem is that Martin not only didn't contradict Butler with some facts, he agreed with Butler. J Mart blew this article with this line:
He admits to having an issue with K-State, but it's a legitimate beef.
With this line Martin expressed his OWN opinion and indicated that Butler had a legitimate beef. So, how exactly can he make an excuse that Butler was so obviously wrong that there as not point in contracting him?????
It may have just been an honest mistake, but this was slanted journalism.
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"It was a legitimate beef during the later Snyder years. "
Since that is the claim you want to make please provide examples.
"You were bagging on J-Mart for the article when it wasn't J-Mart's job to contradict him."
:bs:
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"People are just upset at the way Prince is f'ing up a possible golden situation with Butler and using Martin as a way to vent."
Looks to me more like Martin is acting more like Butler's Minister of Propaganda! You are spinning this a bit yourself Rusty. Can you provide me with this list of players who Butler is speaking of?
I know Butler is jaded and has an agenda or whatever, and I think Martin should have asked a few more questions, but I don't think that's the issue here - the issue is that Prince hasn't already addressed this issue sufficiently in Butler's eyes.
If he had, KSU fans wouldn't be demanding that Jeffrey Martin "set Butler straight". It shouldn't have come to this.
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So, for the record Rusty. YOU CAN NOT PROVIDE A LIST?
Thanks.
This is about crappy journalism, not if Prince should kiss Butler's ass.
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This thread is unbelievable.
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So, for the record Rusty. YOU CAN NOT PROVIDE A LIST?
Thanks.
This is about crappy journalism, not if Prince should kiss Butler's ass.
I know Butler is jaded and has an agenda or whatever, and I think Martin should have asked a few more questions
In other words, no list. Still, Prince refusing to kiss Butler's ass is a lot more important than the quality of journalism from one of the five or six KSU beat writers. Have you had a problem with crappy journalism from any KSU beat writer this year before this notebook?
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This thread is unbelievable.
I concur.
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KSU football is always the victim. It sucks to be us.
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Tell me why guys like Ian Campbell, Jordy Nelson, and Marcus Watts (arguably some of the best players on our team) were walk-ons.""
This is as close of a list as I guess I will get, and it's not from either Butler or Martin. Therefore, I feel the need to answer. Will Martin or Butler provide a list?
The answer, ultimately, is simple and only two words. Bad evaluations. Some of that is due to playing against lower level competition (3A in Kansas). Bad evals happen all the time. However, let's look at this from the Brian Butler, Jeffrey Martin *evil K-State conspiracy angle* for the moment.
Number 1...Watts was not a walk-on. Damn, so he doesn't count towards proving the *evil conspiracy*. Butler and Martin are immediate disappointed. This does not prove the *legitimate beef* to me.
Number 2...Ian Campbell. This could be legitimate. If you consider Vlad Faustin the "4th tier Texas RB". He was the only prep DE in to get a scholarship in the 2004 class, and hasn't really done that much within the program.
Number 3...Jordy Nelson. 2003 class, and came in as a DB/S. Let's just call him an athlete. Who was with him in that class as a recruited scholarship player? Bryan Baldwin, Byron Garvin, Greg Gaskins, Jermaine Moreira. All hardly fit into the profile Butler wants to put out there. All have had a significant impact in the program (starting) except Gaskins. Ohh, and he's from Kansas! Blows that *legitimate beef* out of the water if you ask me. I am, though, still waiting for Martin and Butler to provide their list.
It should be noted NONE of the players you mention were placed on the "farm system" as Butler puts it. So, this really doesn't fit the *evil plan* he and Martin want to accuse the K-State football offices of at all.
"On another note, what should Jeff have done differently in his interview of Mr. Butler? What would you have done?"
Already answered. Read previous posts in this thread. Why question something when that is what you believe though. So, that said, list examples.
Sorry for calling out what has turned out to be a god on this board, in Mr. Martin. I am more then willing to accept whatever punishment is necessary mjrod.
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Funny that you don't include other "athletes"/WR from the 2003 class that are in fact from Texas and haven't done a thing at K-State. But yes, being selective helps your arguments.
Honestly, nobody cares that you are calling out Jeffrey Martin. It's just that you are blowing something small completely out of proportion. You're taking one line out of the entire article and throwing a fit over it. It's just retarded. We all have agreed that Butler is an idiot. Nobody is arguing with you there.
You haven't said once in your previous posts what J-Mart should have done differently in his interview. J-Mart provided a way for Butler to talk. Journalists do this. They include the quotes of the people that they interview in their articles. Should he have just not wrote what Butler's beef was in his article? Is that what you would have done differently?
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"Funny that you don't include other "athletes"/WR from the 2003 class that are in fact from Texas and haven't done a thing at K-State."
The only other WR I know is Toney Coleman...who has been repeatedly injured. Once again, NOTE that Nelson was a DB/S coming into this program...not a WR. But lets include him, for sake of argument (something I won't get from Butler or Martin, so I have to settle from it from you). So that's 2 players in what, 4 classes? Once again, none of the players you mention match up with Butler's "JUCO first" plan, so they really are not on the Butler-Martin list (should one exist) are they? I notice you don't mention you needing to correct your misinformation on Watts. Why is that? You know, since you want to call me out for calling out your bud "J-Mart". I assume that is Jeffrey Martin, journalist for the Wichita Eagle. Key term "journalist", not propaganda minister for Brian Butler.
Honestly, nobody cares that you are calling out Jeffrey Martin.
Noboby? So you are nobody then? Because, obviously you care. Care really deeply. Otherwise you wouldn't reply to defend "J-Mart" and take the efforts you have to do so, multiple times.
"You haven't said once in your previous posts what J-Mart should have done differently in his interview."
How about this, from an earlier post in this thread...
"However, I have to believe if I was in Jeffrey Martin's place when that statement is made I would ask for some examples. Examples other than Frank Delarue, which really isn't even an example itself (as it doesn't match the parameters laid out)." It appears he didn't do that. Furthermore, it appears he agreed with Butler on this point in this article." Martin denied that later, of course.
J-Mart provided a way for Butler to talk. Journalists do this.
Do journalists not ask questions as well? If all Butler wanted to do was talk, he could write a letter to the editor. When Butler tries to make the point on Frank Delrue's recruiting though, don't you believe it is the journalists responsibility to ask who the *4th tier Texas RB* is? If not, why? Furthermore, when this is prevalent as mentioned, shouldn't there be included examples. There are none!
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Okay, I'm trying to follow along.
So the list of tier-2 Kansas players that KSU has "forced" to walk on or play in the "farm system" in favor of tier-4 Texas recruits includes . . .
Frank Delarue / No One
Jordy Nelson / Toney Coleman (who was certainly not tier-4 coming out of high school)
Ian Campbell/ Vlad Faustin (this was a bad call)
(someone should be able to come up with a better list than this -- John McGraw? others? how about Brody Eldridge who went to Oklahoma b/c he mouthed off at the KSU camp and we ended up with Nate "bud" Prater?)
Fausto was unhappy with the JMart article because
1) he thinks JMart should not have endorsed Butler's perspective by calling it "a legitmate beef."
2) Fausto wanted JMart to ask and include in the article some examples from Butler of tier-2 Kansas recruits who have been shafted in favor of tier-4 recruits from Texas.
This seems like reasonable discussion and disagreement to me.
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waks, that seems reasonable as well. fausto is getting in late on the conversation, so it is not old hat to him yet. the same is true to some extent for scuba steve.
the only thing i think you mis-stated in your last post is that the bitching people are focusing on only one line in the article. not true. they dont like 1) the "legitimate beef" thing 2) the anti-kansas player / farm system comment 3) the tier-4 commits from texas 4) the attiribution of hurt feelings to the brown brothers b/c frank didn't get an offer -- does Butler really speak for the brown brothers, would it have been that hard for JMart to ask the Brown brothers themselves if they were "hurt" ? 5) why does this all come down on Prince while Mangino and the ku staff goes scott free? 6) the whole piece coming off as a big endorsement of Butler and a nutkick to Prince with zero attempt to give a different side or ask other obvious questions.
Those are just some of the things I've seen discussed since the article came out, so it was hardly just one line. But you are right, this is getting old for some of those who have been following all these threads all along. I do think there is a hardcore group of fans on this site hanging from JMart's nuts. In my opinion, he needs to be held to the same scrutiny and ridicule as Prince and Weiser and anyone else -- that's what this board is all about and makes it so refreshing when compared to others.
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In my opinion, he needs to be held to the same scrutiny and ridicule as Prince and Weiser and anyone else
That's a dumb opinion, at least on the scrutiny part. I'm with you on the ridicule.
Has anyone figured out why Butler has "beef" with Prince yet?
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"the whole piece coming off as a big endorsement of Butler and a nutkick to Prince with zero attempt to give a different side or ask other obvious questions."
Thanks for summing the whole thing up Poopley. The lack of actual journalism here is what kills me! That, and the fact there are so many people willing to defend it.
I've been an intent recruiting watcher for years, and always pretty much thought K-State locked up too much of the tier 2 Kansas talent where they could have gotten better elsewhere. In the end they've had such a significant influence from the walk-ons within the state it ultimately did not hurt them.
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Just making sure you all saw this. I'm guessing "no", since most of you continually refer to it as an "article". And, yes, there is a difference between the two.
2. It was a NOTEBOOK. Brian Butler started talking and I quoted him. A hatchet job? Slow down. It was his opinion, nothing more and nothing less. Sure, I provided a forum for him. Why not? He's the gatekeeper to two of the most sought after kids in the country. Who wouldn't have run what he said?
....and also this...
Oh, I'm being honest. The legitimate part should have been preceded by "but he insists" it's a legitimate beef. My bad. I thought it was implied that was his meaning. But I take full responsibility for it not sounding that way.
Other than that, Jeff does have an e-mail address, if you can't live without more answers. I'm guessing he's done discussing it here.
But by all means, carry on. It's entertaining.
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Levi, thanks for the permission to continue discussing on this discussion board. Don't know what we'd do without your encouragement except possibly continue on exactly as we have been doing. :)
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Levi Wolters, I think I should have your job.
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Please. Take it.
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Just making sure you all saw this. I'm guessing "no", since most of you continually refer to it as an "article". And, yes, there is a difference between the two.
2. It was a NOTEBOOK. Brian Butler started talking and I quoted him. A hatchet job? Slow down. It was his opinion, nothing more and nothing less. Sure, I provided a forum for him. Why not? He's the gatekeeper to two of the most sought after kids in the country. Who wouldn't have run what he said?
....and also this...
Oh, I'm being honest. The legitimate part should have been preceded by "but he insists" it's a legitimate beef. My bad. I thought it was implied that was his meaning. But I take full responsibility for it not sounding that way.
Other than that, Jeff does have an e-mail address, if you can't live without more answers. I'm guessing he's done discussing it here.
But by all means, carry on. It's entertaining.
I still haven't heard what good points Brian Butler made. Maybe you can answer, Levi.
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I don't know, Scuba. I guess I'm reading what you read differently.
Read my notebook tomorrow. You'll understand a little better where Brian is coming from. Trust, he's a good dude. He makes a lot of good points. I can understand why you guys are bothered, but Hatter is right.
I assumed those to be two general statements, not necessarily relating to the notebook. In other words, after reading, you will get a better understanding of where Brian was coming from. And though you might not agree, he's a good dude, and he does make a lot of good points in general, though these might not necessarily reflect that.
Like I said, I don't know. I just read it differently than you did.
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I don't know, Scuba. ... Like I said, I don't know.
And there you have it.
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I don't know, Scuba. I guess I'm reading what you read differently.
Read my notebook tomorrow. You'll understand a little better where Brian is coming from. Trust, he's a good dude. He makes a lot of good points. I can understand why you guys are bothered, but Hatter is right.
I assumed those to be two general statements, not necessarily relating to the notebook. In other words, after reading, you will get a better understanding of where Brian was coming from. And though you might not agree, he's a good dude, and he does make a lot of good points in general, though these might not necessarily reflect that.
Like I said, I don't know. I just read it differently than you did.
Well, I guess you tried. You really didn't say anything, but you tried.
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These points seem obvious to some, but aren't necessarily to a bunch of insecure, whiny, asshole KSU fans. (Just imagine that he's responding to a panel of the worst powertards.)
Good point #1: He does not hate KSU.
Good point #2: His advice isn't what determines where a player goes - the players choice is.
These points are interesting independent of any powertard drama.
Good point #3: KSU has taken out of state kids when they could have taken Kansas kids.
Good point #4: KSU has used JUCOs as farm teams for many Kansas kids.
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Good grief.
#1: Perception is reality. Unless Jeff Martin misquoted Butler in this article, he's gone and done everyone who cares about KSU a friggin' service. It doesn't matter whether you and I and every other message board dork in the country think that KSU, under Snyder and/or Prince, fairly treated in-state prospects. What matters is what those close to the talent think. And...again, unless J-Mart misquoted Butler, at least one guy close to the talent has a beef with K-State. It may be legit (more on that later), it may not be. But if Butler has a gripe with KSU, and if Butler has connections with some of the best in-state talent, then we're going to be getting a whole lot more in-state talent of the second-tier variety. Prince can stand at the front of the room and make cracks about Martin and Butler until he's blue in the face, but he'd best save his breath because he's going to need it to recruit some more fourth-tier kids from Texas if he continues to piss off those who mentor the in-state talent. There was a constructive way and a non-constructive way to handle this situation, and he chose the latter.
#2: There's no doubt that "third-tier" talent from Texas and Florida gets the benefit of the doubt over "second-tier" talent from Kansas and Oklahoma. It happens at KSU, ku, OU, and OSU. I'm not going to give a list, because recruiting is so freakin' subjective, as the powertards make abundantly clear, and with these kids you're not usually dealing with stars or starters, but they're out there. It's part of the entire, whacked-out recruiting process, where schools try to cover their rears by stringing along in-staters who they think are loyal enough to the state/program to fill out their classes as a last-minute scholarship, grayshirt, walk-on, or juco placement, after they bring in all the foreign talent they want.
Well, I guess I do agree with you on one thing, Jeff definitely brought to light the fact that Butler has some KSU issues. It's nice to know that.
To state that it is Prince's policy to string along in-state players and take 4th tier Texas players instead is utterly ridiculous. However, there are all kinds of reasons that you may take a lower tier Texas player instead of a Kansas player of the same caliber. We aren't going to fill our roster entirely with Kansas kids. We have to develope recruiting relationships outside of the state. If it means taking a Texas kid for depth and it may give us the opportunity to get a starter quality player in the future, you let the 2nd string player from Sharon Springs walk on. That's just business.
You're right about another thing, though. Recruiting is subjective. Prime example: Prince thought Woods, Cuba, Bell, and Reed are better than Delarue. Butler doesn't.
By the way, talking about blowing things out of proportion. I can't believe that Prince is taking the kind of heat on this board about those comments he made at the Catbacker's event. And you people say that I'm the one that is just trying to find something to bitch about. If Martin takes offense to those comments then he has bigger issues than I even think he does. If Butler takes offense, well then Butler was a hopeless case to begin with and you have to know that Prince knows it.
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By the way, talking about blowing things out of proportion. I can't believe that Prince is taking the kind of heat on this board about those comments he made at the Catbacker's event. And you people say that I'm the one that is just trying to find something to bitch about. If Martin takes offense to those comments then he has bigger issues than I even think he does. If Butler takes offense, well then Butler was a hopeless case to begin with and you have to know that Prince knows it.
The difference is that you're complaining about an irrelevant beat writer and we're complaining about the most recognizable figure in our university publicly ridiculing the most trusted adviser of two of the best recruits in the country in his home town.
I honestly don't understand why people are upset with Butler/Martin and not Prince. (Well, I do, but their reasons are kind of dumb.)
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The difference is that you're complaining about an irrelevant beat writer and we're complaining about the most recognizable figure in our university publicly ridiculing the most trusted adviser of two of the best recruits in the country in his home town.
I honestly don't understand why people are upset with Butler/Martin and not Prince. (Well, I do, but their reasons are kind of dumb.)
Well... because I really would like to see KSU and Ron Prince succeed and that irrelevant beat writer, Butler, and you, I guess, would rather sabotage his efforts. Who's dumb?
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Well... because I really would like to see KSU and Ron Prince succeed and that irrelevant beat writer, Butler, and you, I guess, would rather sabotage his efforts.
Um, no. I want Prince to make Butler happy and keep quality Wichita recruits in-state (now, and in the future). Prince acting like a complete ass will do more to damage that than Jeffrey Martin.
Who's dumb?
Ron.
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Well... because I really would like to see KSU and Ron Prince succeed and that irrelevant beat writer, Butler, and you, I guess, would rather sabotage his efforts.
Um, no. I want Prince to make Butler happy and keep quality Wichita recruits in-state (now, and in the future). Prince acting like a complete ass will do more to damage that than Jeffrey Martin.
Who's dumb?
Ron.
Unbelievable that you believe that Ron would not like Butler to be happy. Who's dumb? You.
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The difference is that you're complaining about an irrelevant beat writer and we're complaining about the most recognizable figure in our university publicly ridiculing the most trusted adviser of two of the best recruits in the country in his home town.
I honestly don't understand why people are upset with Butler/Martin and not Prince. (Well, I do, but their reasons are kind of dumb.)
Well... because I really would like to see KSU and Ron Prince succeed and that irrelevant beat writer, Butler, and you, I guess, would rather sabotage his efforts. Who's dumb?
Oh dear god....that is an incredibly retarded statement. Whether or not Butler is right or Martin is right is irrelevant....what's relevant is that Butler feels a certian way (which we found out in Martin's notebook) and that obviously means that Prince has not done enough to make the handler of local elite talent happy and compound that with Prince taking some shots at Butler (I could care less about the shots at Martin) really isn't a smart idea if we want to land that local elite talent.
I mean, everyone can look at the "facts" of the situation and say that what Butler is saying is factually wrong (in terms of # of KS kids on the roster), but that's really not the point.
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Well... because I really would like to see KSU and Ron Prince succeed and that irrelevant beat writer, Butler, and you, I guess, would rather sabotage his efforts.
Um, no. I want Prince to make Butler happy and keep quality Wichita recruits in-state (now, and in the future). Prince acting like a complete ass will do more to damage that than Jeffrey Martin.
Who's dumb?
Ron.
Unbelievable that you believe that Ron would not like Butler to be happy. Who's dumb? You.
Yeah, his "thankfully I have Brian Butler to tell me how to recruit" comment sounds like the foundation of a long, fruitful relationship to me.
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The difference is that you're complaining about an irrelevant beat writer and we're complaining about the most recognizable figure in our university publicly ridiculing the most trusted adviser of two of the best recruits in the country in his home town.
I honestly don't understand why people are upset with Butler/Martin and not Prince. (Well, I do, but their reasons are kind of dumb.)
Well... because I really would like to see KSU and Ron Prince succeed and that irrelevant beat writer, Butler, and you, I guess, would rather sabotage his efforts. Who's dumb?
Oh dear god....that is an incredibly retarded statement. Whether or not Butler is right or Martin is right is irrelevant....what's relevant is that Butler feels a certian way (which we found out in Martin's notebook) and that obviously means that Prince has not done enough to make the handler of local elite talent happy and compound that with Prince taking some shots at Butler (I could care less about the shots at Martin) really isn't a smart idea if we want to land that local elite talent.
I mean, everyone can look at the "facts" of the situation and say that what Butler is saying is factually wrong (in terms of # of KS kids on the roster), but that's really not the point.
Hey! Someone gets it!
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Yeah, his "thankfully I have Brian Butler to tell me how to recruit" comment sounds like the foundation of a long, fruitful relationship to me.
Connect the dots Rusty. Don't be an idiot.
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Yeah, his "thankfully I have Brian Butler to tell me how to recruit" comment sounds like the foundation of a long, fruitful relationship to me.
Connect the dots Rusty. Don't be an idiot.
Connect them for me. Please, I'd love to hear you justify Ron's Butler comments.
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Yeah, his "thankfully I have Brian Butler to tell me how to recruit" comment sounds like the foundation of a long, fruitful relationship to me.
Connect the dots Rusty. Don't be an idiot.
Connect them for me. Please, I'd love to hear you justify Ron's Butler comments.
Obviously, Prince knows that Butler is a lost cause. He's going to recruit these players without him. He needs to discredit him and his comments as not to undermine his efforts with the rest of Kansas. I have absolutely no problem with it whatsoever. Let's just see how many DI scholarship offers outside of Brown and maybe Harper (a kid without at position) Butler gets these players through his little road trip. I'm guessing none. Face it, what other kid is there that's good enough to warrant the attention of the type of schools he's taking them to. Butler is going to need Prince. There aren't that many Brown's in Wichita. Not to mention kids like the Browns don't need Butler anyway. Butler is trying to strong-arm Ron Prince into taking HIS players. He needs HIS players to get DI scholarships or his little business goes down the toilet. He's more apt to get them from ku and KSU than Georgia and Florida. Either that or he's parlaying the Browns into a better opportunity. If that's the case he's not going to be around anyway. You can use this as another reason to bash Prince if you want, but the Brown's were/are going to come to KSU or not. It's obvious that Butler doesn't want them at KSU for whatever reason. I don't see where kissing his ass this point will do any good whatsoever.
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This place is slowly starting to make PowertardCentral look comparatively sane. The video productions are the saving grace.
Rusty - Do you think Ron's comments had any significant impact on Butler's opinion or perception? Do you really think there was a change that came out of the comments on Butler's end? Was he steering kids to KSU before, and now isn't?
If you want Butler's perception to change, you have to get him to recognize the errors inherent in his thinking that forms the perception. I don't think Prince, or anyone else, has done this at all. That's the biggest reason I don't get Prince's comments, and think they were all together non-constructive. He could have simply trotted out facts and left the personal jabs out.
Perception is not reality. The idea that it is reality is just the crutch that those incapable and/or unwilling to discuss reality trot out to defend their illogical actions.
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Yeah, his "thankfully I have Brian Butler to tell me how to recruit" comment sounds like the foundation of a long, fruitful relationship to me.
Connect the dots Rusty. Don't be an idiot.
Connect them for me. Please, I'd love to hear you justify Ron's Butler comments.
Obviously, Prince knows that Butler is a lost cause. He's going to recruit these players without him. He needs to discredit him and his comments as not to undermine his efforts with the rest of Kansas. I have absolutely no problem with it whatsoever. Let's just see how many DI scholarship offers outside of Brown and maybe Harper (a kid without at position) Butler gets these players through his little road trip. I'm guessing none. Face it, what other kid is there that's good enough to warrant the attention of the type of schools he's taking them to. Butler is going to need Prince. There aren't that many Brown's in Wichita. Not to mention kids like the Browns don't need Butler anyway. Butler is trying to strong-arm Ron Prince into taking HIS players. He needs HIS players to get DI scholarships or his little business goes down the toilet. He's more apt to get them from ku and KSU than Georgia and Florida. Either that or he's parlaying the Browns into a better opportunity. If that's the case he's not going to be around anyway. You can use this as another reason to bash Prince if you want, but the Brown's were/are going to come to KSU or not. It's obvious that Butler doesn't want them at KSU for whatever reason. I don't see where kissing his ass this point will do any good whatsoever.
Dead on, dead f'ing on.
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Obviously, Prince knows that Butler is a lost cause. He's going to recruit these players without him.
That's just foolish.
I don't see where kissing his ass this point will do any good whatsoever.
Prince is in the ass-kissing business (recruiting). Ass-kissing will always do you good in recruiting. Prince went way past "not kissing ass" and straight into being a dick. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. That's just horrible business.
Rusty - Do you think Ron's comments had any significant impact on Butler's opinion or perception? Do you really think there was a change that came out of the comments on Butler's end? Was he steering kids to KSU before, and now isn't?
I think it could have a very significant impact. The Browns might be a lost cause, but there will be future Wichita recruits that could ask Butler about Prince, and Butler could say he's an ass. I don't expect him to say anything positive about Prince at this point in time.
If you want Butler's perception to change, you have to get him to recognize the errors inherent in his thinking that forms the perception. I don't think Prince, or anyone else, has done this at all.
Exactly - that's the problem here. It's Prince's job to set Butler straight in a non-public way that keeps him happy. Maybe he's done everything in his power to do this (from what I've heard, he hasn't, at all). Even if they don't come to complete agreement, at least they don't burn any bridges in the process.
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Prince is in the ass-kissing business (recruiting). Ass-kissing will always do you good in recruiting. Prince went way past "not kissing ass" and straight into being a dick. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. That's just horrible business.
I think it could have a very significant impact. The Browns might be a lost cause, but there will be future Wichita recruits that could ask Butler about Prince, and Butler could say he's an ass. I don't expect him to say anything positive about Prince at this point in time.
Exactly - that's the problem here. It's Prince's job to set Butler straight in a non-public way that keeps him happy. Maybe he's done everything in his power to do this (from what I've heard, he hasn't, at all). Even if they don't come to complete agreement, at least they don't burn any bridges in the process.
You don't have long term success by being a butt kisser. Stoops isn't a recruiting whiz because he kisses butt, he's a recruiting whiz because he wins and puts players in the NFL. By and large that is what will attract the most quality recruits over the long haul. How many recruit's doors were opened by Snyder puckering up?
You even contradict yourself later by saying that Prince's job is to "set Butler straight." Setting someone straight and kissing their butt are not complementary actions.
And you ducked the question about the actual impact of Prince's comments. Talking about the impact it could have versus the impact you think it DID have is weak, especially given your willingness to lambaste Prince over it. What do you think Butler's advice was regarding KSU prior to the comment, and how do you think it's changed? You don't have to shuck and jive, the answer is quite obvious. The most likely scenario is that the comment doesn't change squat.
What Prince has done is offer scholarships to very questionable HS recruits from Kansas. He's taken that action at least, I'm sure you'll agree. For every passed over kid that Butler can mention, I'm sure we can rattle off a handful of scrub recruits that never would have been offered if they were from somewhere other than Kansas.
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You don't have long term success by being a butt kisser. Stoops isn't a recruiting whiz because he kisses butt, he's a recruiting whiz because he wins and puts players in the NFL. By and large that is what will attract the most quality recruits over the long haul. How many recruit's doors were opened by Snyder puckering up?
I guarantee you Bob Stoops can kiss a 5 star 17 year old's ass (or handler's ass) with the best of them. Snyder, too. Obviously, a winning track record will get you further, but Ron doesn't exactly have that luxury, does he?
You even contradict yourself later by saying that Prince's job is to "set Butler straight." Setting someone straight and kissing their butt are not complementary actions.
That's just poor wording on my part. I'm trying to say they need to be on the same page. They need to have a good relationship...at least good enough too prevent Butler from spouting falsehoods to the media. Prince should have already known about Butler's issue with DeLarue, explained his reasoning for not extending an offer, address any other concerns Butler has with KSU recruiting, tell him to call him at any time with any future concerns, and ask that it not be discussed in the media.
And you ducked the question about the actual impact of Prince's comments. Talking about the impact it could have versus the impact you think it DID have is weak, especially given your willingness to lambaste Prince over it. What do you think Butler's advice was regarding KSU prior to the comment, and how do you think it's changed?
Jesus Christ, I can't read Butler's mind. All I know is that Prince came off as a dick. So, I would think that if Butler was telling kids that "KSU's coach neglects Kansas recruits" before the comments, he would now tell them that "KSU's dickhead of a coach neglects Kansas recruits". Maybe he already thought Prince was a dickhead before the Catbacker event. In that case, it probably had little impact.
The most likely scenario is that the comment doesn't change squat.
Even if all your nonsense is true, why risk it? Ron needs to keep his mouth shut and work on improving ties with Butler.
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If Arthur Brown goes big time, Wichita area kids are going to be lining up to play for Butler's organization. If that does happen, and Butler still doesn't like Prince, then we are &@#%ed. There will definitely be more good talent that comes out of Wichita that we shouldn't miss on and Prince needs to do whatever he can to improve relations with Butler. Bottom line.
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Prince is in the ass-kissing business (recruiting). Ass-kissing will always do you good in recruiting. Prince went way past "not kissing ass" and straight into being a dick. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. That's just horrible business.
I think it could have a very significant impact. The Browns might be a lost cause, but there will be future Wichita recruits that could ask Butler about Prince, and Butler could say he's an ass. I don't expect him to say anything positive about Prince at this point in time.
Exactly - that's the problem here. It's Prince's job to set Butler straight in a non-public way that keeps him happy. Maybe he's done everything in his power to do this (from what I've heard, he hasn't, at all). Even if they don't come to complete agreement, at least they don't burn any bridges in the process.
You don't have long term success by being a butt kisser. Stoops isn't a recruiting whiz because he kisses butt, he's a recruiting whiz because he wins and puts players in the NFL. By and large that is what will attract the most quality recruits over the long haul. How many recruit's doors were opened by Snyder puckering up?
You even contradict yourself later by saying that Prince's job is to "set Butler straight." Setting someone straight and kissing their butt are not complementary actions.
And you ducked the question about the actual impact of Prince's comments. Talking about the impact it could have versus the impact you think it DID have is weak, especially given your willingness to lambaste Prince over it. What do you think Butler's advice was regarding KSU prior to the comment, and how do you think it's changed? You don't have to shuck and jive, the answer is quite obvious. The most likely scenario is that the comment doesn't change squat.
What Prince has done is offer scholarships to very questionable HS recruits from Kansas. He's taken that action at least, I'm sure you'll agree. For every passed over kid that Butler can mention, I'm sure we can rattle off a handful of scrub recruits that never would have been offered if they were from somewhere other than Kansas.
How freaking stupid are you? If the relationship is/was damaged, how does taking shots at Butler help repair, in any way, that critical relationship? You're right, the comment doesn't change squat and that is sad; Prince should be trying to reconcile/repair that relationship. And as far as recruiting and Butler, we aren't just talking about the Brown brothers, we're talking about all the other kids that will be attracted to Butler because of what he will be able to do for the Browns and Harper.
How the hell do you think Prince is going to get to the long term (i.e. winning)? The term "kissing ass" is semantics. It doesn't mean you bend over backwards, but it does mean that you pretty much do what you can to make them "happy" knowing that in the future you'll be able to have some leverage/advantage over other people trying to recruit "Butler's kids". It's called establishing a relationship, and by Prince's comments and Butler's comments, he hasn't been able to establish this key relationship.
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While Prince should improve relations with Butler, he shouldn't just bow down to the man and offer whoever Butler pushes. So KSU didn't offer a 5-5 165# RB that gains 200 yards against West and North high. The fact of the matter is that some kids just aren't good enough or big enough to play Division 1 football. Prince could offer guys like that for a better chance to land the Brown bros., but when they commit to an SEC school Prince is stuck with a D2 football player on scholarship for 3 more years. Prince's job is to go out and get the best players possible and Butler's job is to push guys from Wichita, but when Butler's guy doesn't get offered it's not his job to call out Prince and trying to tell him how to run his team.
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While Prince should improve relations with Butler, he shouldn't just bow down to the man and offer whoever Butler pushes. So KSU didn't offer a 5-5 165# RB that gains 200 yards against West and North high. The fact of the matter is that some kids just aren't good enough or big enough to play Division 1 football. Prince could offer guys like that for a better chance to land the Brown bros., but when they commit to an SEC school Prince is stuck with a D2 football player on scholarship for 3 more years. Prince's job is to go out and get the best players possible and Butler's job is to push guys from Wichita, but when Butler's guy doesn't get offered it's not his job to call out Prince and trying to tell him how to run his team.
It doesn't have to be so black and white. And as has been already said, this is as much about the Rashad Washington's, Jermaine Berry's, and John Randle's of the world as much as it is the Brown's .
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While Prince should improve relations with Butler, he shouldn't just bow down to the man and offer whoever Butler pushes. So KSU didn't offer a 5-5 165# RB that gains 200 yards against West and North high. The fact of the matter is that some kids just aren't good enough or big enough to play Division 1 football. Prince could offer guys like that for a better chance to land the Brown bros., but when they commit to an SEC school Prince is stuck with a D2 football player on scholarship for 3 more years. Prince's job is to go out and get the best players possible and Butler's job is to push guys from Wichita, but when Butler's guy doesn't get offered it's not his job to call out Prince and trying to tell him how to run his team.
That's not the point. Prince needs to explain to Butler why he felt that Delarue did not deserve a scholarship. We're saying that he needs to have a healthy relationship and not insult the guy to the media (that's just idiotic and embarrassing). We're not saying he should offer every kid Butler pushes just to make Butler happy. We are just saying that he needs to do everything reasonable to keep a good relationship with Butler (like not mock him in front of 1000 people in Butler's own city).
I agree that mocking Butler was a bad idea, but as we all know Prince is arrogant, and he has to see it as a slap in the face that some guy who is making a name for himself off of 2 all-world talents is trying to tell him how to do his job. IMHO Butler is a sleezy guy, but that's how recruiting works. I don't blame it on JMart for printing the quotes, but why not interview Prince on how he goes about the recruiting process. So the Brown brothers thought Frank was a better back than the guys KSU offered, who cares? The guy is 5-5 and his name is not Darren Sproles. Maybe Butler as an adult should ask Prince why FD wasn't offered and then explain it to the bros.
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Sorry; I'm a bit behind as I was out of town all weekend... but reading through this, I keep coming back to one question... Why is any of this being hung on Jeffrey Martin? When did it become his job to defend Coach Prince? If there is a problem with Prince's image, Prince needs to handle it; and handle it in a way that doesn't make him sound like he's attacking anyone.
As far as the whole butler/kansas recruits/prince issue. I really don't think any of you are capable of reading between the lines. Butler's #1 goal is to get Kansas Kids Recruited. He's going to say anything possible to get more kids recruited; regardless of them being true or not. He probably feels that way because not enough of his kids are taken. He wants all of them to get scholarships. Kind of like every father thinks their kid should have the ball in their hands every play; then verbally attacks to little league coach for not doing so.
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While Prince should improve relations with Butler, he shouldn't just bow down to the man and offer whoever Butler pushes. So KSU didn't offer a 5-5 165# RB that gains 200 yards against West and North high. The fact of the matter is that some kids just aren't good enough or big enough to play Division 1 football. Prince could offer guys like that for a better chance to land the Brown bros., but when they commit to an SEC school Prince is stuck with a D2 football player on scholarship for 3 more years. Prince's job is to go out and get the best players possible and Butler's job is to push guys from Wichita, but when Butler's guy doesn't get offered it's not his job to call out Prince and trying to tell him how to run his team.
That's not the point. Prince needs to explain to Butler why he felt that Delarue did not deserve a scholarship.
Prince shouldn't have to explain anything to Butler. Prince not offering Delarue should tell Butler everything he needs to know about how Prince feels about Delarue.
This isn't the first time that Prince has snubbed Butler, he also did by not showing up to the Brown workouts when everyone else was there, he obviously knows more about the situation than any of us. I'm sure he wants to be in the Brown's good graces but that may not be possible, only Prince and Butler know that.
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Butler needs Prince more than Prince needs Butler. Hopefully Butler realizes this.
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Butler needs Prince more than Prince needs Butler. Hopefully Butler realizes this.
Not necessarily.. It depends on how deep Mangino's rectum is. I'm guessing it's pretty deep.
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Butler also needs the Brown bros. more than Prince does. Granted they will provide a huge impact for whatever team(s) that they land on, but if Prince doesn't land the brothers he will still have his job for the time being. Butler without the Browns is nothing.
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Butler needs Prince more than Prince needs Butler. Hopefully Butler realizes this.
Not necessarily.. It depends on how deep Mangino's rectum is. I'm guessing it's pretty deep.
I don't think Mangino has ever recruited Butler's players.
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Butler needs Prince more than Prince needs Butler. Hopefully Butler realizes this.
Not necessarily.. It depends on how deep Mangino's rectum is. I'm guessing it's pretty deep.
I don't think Mangino has ever recruited Butler's players.
He was at the combine.
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Butler needs Prince more than Prince needs Butler. Hopefully Butler realizes this.
Not necessarily.. It depends on how deep Mangino's rectum is. I'm guessing it's pretty deep.
I don't think Mangino has ever recruited Butler's players.
He was at the combine.
Whoop-de-doo. It's &@#%ing Mangino, he's irrelevant.
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Butler needs Prince more than Prince needs Butler. Hopefully Butler realizes this.
Not necessarily.. It depends on how deep Mangino's rectum is. I'm guessing it's pretty deep.
I don't think Mangino has ever recruited Butler's players.
He was at the combine.
Whoop-de-doo. It's &*$@!ing Mangino, he's irrelevant.
ku was in Brown's top 50.
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Maybe Butler doesn't need us as much as I think he does. It's not like anyones going to recruit the Frank Delarues of the world.
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BTW, is Frank the most hated player never to have worn the "purple and silver" ever?
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BTW, is Frank the most hated player never to have worn the "purple and silver" ever?
Hell yes he is. He might have f'd us with the Brown bros because he and his friends can't deal with the fact that he isn't good enough.
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No, I'd probably say that title belongs to Sirr Parker.
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No, I'd probably say that title belongs to Sir Parker.
KSU recruits.
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Didn't Frank walk-on anyways? I think he had scholly offers from like Tulsa. He must really want to play at KSU. I just don't get how the Brown's could be so upset about KSU not offering Frank when they offered his half-brother Tysyn Hartman. Its not like Prince was holding a grudge, he was just doing his job.
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WhAT!?!?!?! Why the &@#% would anyone be pissed at Frank? Is he in the media bitching about not getting a scholly. Have we heard reports about the Brown Bro's DIRECTLY FROM the Brown Bro's that they now hate KSU because of Frank not getting a scholly.
I love Frank. I love kids that love a school and want to play for a school so badly that they pass up playing at other places to walk onto a program.
Butler's still the asshole in this situation.
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WhAT!?!?!?! Why the &*$@! would anyone be pissed at Frank? Is he in the media bitching about not getting a scholly. Have we heard reports about the Brown Bro's DIRECTLY FROM the Brown Bro's that they now hate KSU because of Frank not getting a scholly.
I love Frank. I love kids that love a school and want to play for a school so badly that they pass up playing at other places to walk onto a program.
Butler's still the asshole in this situation.
I'm sure it was kind of a joke..
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damnit, I leave town for 3 days, and my &@#%in sarcasm meter needs adjusted.
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Prince shouldn't have to explain anything to Butler. Prince not offering Delarue should tell Butler everything he needs to know about how Prince feels about Delarue.
This isn't the first time that Prince has snubbed Butler, he also did by not showing up to the Brown workouts when everyone else was there, he obviously knows more about the situation than any of us. I'm sure he wants to be in the Brown's good graces but that may not be possible, only Prince and Butler know that.
This could be the best post in this thread.
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This place is slowly starting to make PowertardCentral look comparatively sane. The video productions are the saving grace.
LOL at make this statement and then quoting Rusty for being a supposed Powertard. Wow.
I never quoted Rusty as a supposed powertard. I made a comparison between the two sites, and the dementia is similar, but focused differently. If that doesn't make sense to you, please cease reading my posts.
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This place is slowly starting to make PowertardCentral look comparatively sane. The video productions are the saving grace.
LOL at make this statement and then quoting Rusty for being a supposed Powertard. Wow.
I never quoted Rusty as a supposed powertard. I made a comparison between the two sites, and the dementia is similar, but focused differently. If that doesn't make sense to you, please cease reading my posts.
LOL @ you saying anyone's dementia is distorted when you're the one that finds no problem with Prince mocking Brian Butler when he holds the key to almost all Wichita area recruits.
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Somewhere along the line Jeffrey Martin got of the hook in this thread... that sneaky Prince-hater.
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Prince shouldn't have to explain anything to Butler. Prince not offering Delarue should tell Butler everything he needs to know about how Prince feels about Delarue.
This isn't the first time that Prince has snubbed Butler, he also did by not showing up to the Brown workouts when everyone else was there, he obviously knows more about the situation than any of us. I'm sure he wants to be in the Brown's good graces but that may not be possible, only Prince and Butler know that.
This could be the best post in this thread.
How, exactly? If your point is that Prince knows more about this situation then us, then fine, I guess. Although every thread on any topic related to football could just be stopped with "Prince knows more about this than us" and we could spend less time on here and more time jogging and working out on a bowflex. I'm sure Terry Allen knew more about ku football than us.
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LOL @ you saying anyone's dementia is distorted when you're the one that finds no problem with Prince mocking Brian Butler when he holds the key to almost all Wichita area recruits.
This remains to be seen.
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I guarantee you Bob Stoops can kiss a 5 star 17 year old's ass (or handler's ass) with the best of them. Snyder, too. Obviously, a winning track record will get you further, but Ron doesn't exactly have that luxury, does he?
That's just poor wording on my part. I'm trying to say they need to be on the same page. They need to have a good relationship...at least good enough too prevent Butler from spouting falsehoods to the media. Prince should have already known about Butler's issue with DeLarue, explained his reasoning for not extending an offer, address any other concerns Butler has with KSU recruiting, tell him to call him at any time with any future concerns, and ask that it not be discussed in the media.
Jesus Christ, I can't read Butler's mind. All I know is that Prince came off as a dick. So, I would think that if Butler was telling kids that "KSU's coach neglects Kansas recruits" before the comments, he would now tell them that "KSU's dickhead of a coach neglects Kansas recruits". Maybe he already thought Prince was a dickhead before the Catbacker event. In that case, it probably had little impact.
Even if all your nonsense is true, why risk it? Ron needs to keep his mouth shut and work on improving ties with Butler.
Obviously you place a high value on butt kissing. I'm sure it's served you well. Next time you see Snyder, mention to him your theory that butt kissing is what turned around the program at KSU.
Prince is working on developing his track record, and we'll see if it's a winning one or not. Right now he recruits on the opportunities afforded by a program trying to re-establish itself. And as for having a good relationship with Butler, now you're finally on to something, but clearly haven't thought it through. If it's a relationship you want to see, then you can't blame 1 party for it not happening, especially when the other party is the one spouting utter falsehoods. You say you can't read Butler's mind, but seem awfully convinced that you've read Prince's and know exactly what he has and hasn't done in regards to Butler. Try objectivity and logic.
Your reaction to this whole deal is so powertardish in it's simplistic and assumptive nature it's nauseating. You come off sounding like a little child throwing a temper tantrum.
Prince made a comment at a Catbacker event, and you don't know what impact it had. Yet you're all worked up over it. It's hilarious. What's even funnier is the reaction of the other tards on here about Prince's comments towards Martin. I guess the tards on here think a coach jabbing a media guy at an alumni event is a rare event. Insanely low sportsIQ in these parts.
If I had to guess, Butler doesn't give a single @#%* about Prince's comment, and it has no material effect on their relationship.
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I guarantee you Bob Stoops can kiss a 5 star 17 year old's ass (or handler's ass) with the best of them. Snyder, too. Obviously, a winning track record will get you further, but Ron doesn't exactly have that luxury, does he?
That's just poor wording on my part. I'm trying to say they need to be on the same page. They need to have a good relationship...at least good enough too prevent Butler from spouting falsehoods to the media. Prince should have already known about Butler's issue with DeLarue, explained his reasoning for not extending an offer, address any other concerns Butler has with KSU recruiting, tell him to call him at any time with any future concerns, and ask that it not be discussed in the media.
Jesus Christ, I can't read Butler's mind. All I know is that Prince came off as a dick. So, I would think that if Butler was telling kids that "KSU's coach neglects Kansas recruits" before the comments, he would now tell them that "KSU's dickhead of a coach neglects Kansas recruits". Maybe he already thought Prince was a dickhead before the Catbacker event. In that case, it probably had little impact.
Even if all your nonsense is true, why risk it? Ron needs to keep his mouth shut and work on improving ties with Butler.
Obviously you place a high value on butt kissing. I'm sure it's served you well. Next time you see Snyder, mention to him your theory that butt kissing is what turned around the program at KSU.
Prince is working on developing his track record, and we'll see if it's a winning one or not. Right now he recruits on the opportunities afforded by a program trying to re-establish itself. And as for having a good relationship with Butler, now you're finally on to something, but clearly haven't thought it through. If it's a relationship you want to see, then you can't blame 1 party for it not happening, especially when the other party is the one spouting utter falsehoods. You say you can't read Butler's mind, but seem awfully convinced that you've read Prince's and know exactly what he has and hasn't done in regards to Butler. Try objectivity and logic.
Your reaction to this whole deal is so powertardish in it's simplistic and assumptive nature it's nauseating. You come off sounding like a little child throwing a temper tantrum.
Prince made a comment at a Catbacker event, and you don't know what impact it had. Yet you're all worked up over it. It's hilarious. What's even funnier is the reaction of the other tards on here about Prince's comments towards Martin. I guess the tards on here think a coach jabbing a media guy at an alumni event is a rare event. Insanely low sportsIQ in these parts.
If I had to guess, Butler doesn't give a single @#%* about Prince's comment, and it has no material effect on their relationship.
:thumbsup:
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Now I'm convinced that you have no idea what a powertard is. Can someone please post the test in this thread in order to help KSU4ME (typical handle that a powertard would choose btw). Thanks.
I would be the Powertard in this instance. The problem is, everyone is a powertard at one time or another. It's laughable that most of you think you are above it somehow.
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This could be the best post in this thread.
I locked up that honor on page 1. Anyone seriously sticking to this ridiculous topic is disqualified.
kono
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How freaking stupid are you? If the relationship is/was damaged, how does taking shots at Butler help repair, in any way, that critical relationship? You're right, the comment doesn't change squat and that is sad; Prince should be trying to reconcile/repair that relationship. And as far as recruiting and Butler, we aren't just talking about the Brown brothers, we're talking about all the other kids that will be attracted to Butler because of what he will be able to do for the Browns and Harper.
How the hell do you think Prince is going to get to the long term (i.e. winning)? The term "kissing ass" is semantics. It doesn't mean you bend over backwards, but it does mean that you pretty much do what you can to make them "happy" knowing that in the future you'll be able to have some leverage/advantage over other people trying to recruit "Butler's kids". It's called establishing a relationship, and by Prince's comments and Butler's comments, he hasn't been able to establish this key relationship.
Never said it helped, and certainly pointed out that it didn't. Please let me know if you were unable to gather that from my comment: "That's the biggest reason I don't get Prince's comments, and think they were all together non-constructive. He could have simply trotted out facts and left the personal jabs out."
Now you're running off guessing about the future of what Butler will do. Kind of funny. For all you know the Browns will go against Butler's advice wherever they go, and Butler will have to sit for another half decade for another truly national talent to arrive in Wichita.
One thing that is certain. Butler is not going to make or break any program in the long term.
As for the relationship, why do you assume it's one way? Why do you assume you know the whole history? You've read one "notebook" during which the reporter chose not to ask any tough questions, and have one quote from a Catbacker event. Do you realize that the odds are that you don't know the overwhelming majority of the facts in this matter?
But by all means, get bent out of shape and throw a fit over it. It's what tards do.
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I haven't bean wrong about Jmart. He's the devil!
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How freaking stupid are you? If the relationship is/was damaged, how does taking shots at Butler help repair, in any way, that critical relationship? You're right, the comment doesn't change squat and that is sad; Prince should be trying to reconcile/repair that relationship. And as far as recruiting and Butler, we aren't just talking about the Brown brothers, we're talking about all the other kids that will be attracted to Butler because of what he will be able to do for the Browns and Harper.
How the hell do you think Prince is going to get to the long term (i.e. winning)? The term "kissing ass" is semantics. It doesn't mean you bend over backwards, but it does mean that you pretty much do what you can to make them "happy" knowing that in the future you'll be able to have some leverage/advantage over other people trying to recruit "Butler's kids". It's called establishing a relationship, and by Prince's comments and Butler's comments, he hasn't been able to establish this key relationship.
Never said it helped, and certainly pointed out that it didn't. Please let me know if you were unable to gather that from my comment: "That's the biggest reason I don't get Prince's comments, and think they were all together non-constructive. He could have simply trotted out facts and left the personal jabs out."
Now you're running off guessing about the future of what Butler will do. Kind of funny. For all you know the Browns will go against Butler's advice wherever they go, and Butler will have to sit for another half decade for another truly national talent to arrive in Wichita.
One thing that is certain. Butler is not going to make or break any program in the long term.
As for the relationship, why do you assume it's one way? Why do you assume you know the whole history? You've read one "notebook" during which the reporter chose not to ask any tough questions, and have one quote from a Catbacker event. Do you realize that the odds are that you don't know the overwhelming majority of the facts in this matter?
But by all means, get bent out of shape and throw a fit over it. It's what tards do.
I enjoy that it's your side of the story which is correct, not the documented side of it.
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Sorry; I'm a bit behind as I was out of town all weekend... but reading through this, I keep coming back to one question... Why is any of this being hung on Jeffrey Martin? When did it become his job to defend Coach Prince? If there is a problem with Prince's image, Prince needs to handle it; and handle it in a way that doesn't make him sound like he's attacking anyone.
As far as the whole butler/kansas recruits/prince issue. I really don't think any of you are capable of reading between the lines. Butler's #1 goal is to get Kansas Kids Recruited. He's going to say anything possible to get more kids recruited; regardless of them being true or not. He probably feels that way because not enough of his kids are taken. He wants all of them to get scholarships. Kind of like every father thinks their kid should have the ball in their hands every play; then verbally attacks to little league coach for not doing so.
The J-Mart thing is simple. When someone says something as obviously inaccurate as Butler's comments, it should get questioned and/or clarified. If Prince were to say tomorrow that he offered Delarue, do you think J-Mart would just print it (notebook or otherwise) without any question or offering other relevant facts? I'm quite doubtful.
If J-Mart knows anything about Prince's recruiting, he knows that questionable talent has been offered scholarships in the state of Kansas. It is possible that J-Mart doesn't know this, but here again, I'm doubtful. He reads this board, he knows the frustrations folks have expressed over some of the kids offered.
I don't know what Butler's #1 goal is, but it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't all about the kids.
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Now I'm convinced that you have no idea what a powertard is. Can someone please post the test in this thread in order to help KSU4ME (typical handle that a powertard would choose btw). Thanks.
I know quite well what a powertard is, and have read the test. Re-post it, and I'll rephrase the questions to exactly describe the tardish behavior here whenever Martin or Butler comes up as a topic. I'm not saying you and Rusty are powertards...I'm saying you're tards. Different species of the same cat, but still tards.
LOL @ you saying anyone's dementia is distorted when you're the one that finds no problem with Prince mocking Brian Butler when he holds the key to almost all Wichita area recruits.
And please let me know where I said I had no problem with Prince's comments. On page 2 I clearly explained my frustration with Prince's comments. As I've done in other threads on this subject.
Butler is the key holder to almost all Wichita area recruits....More tardish behavior.
I enjoy that it's your side of the story which is correct, not the documented side of it.
If you've read my posts, you'll see that I'm the one pointing out that there is likely more to this story than a J-Mart Notebook and a Catbacker meeting. It's the tards on this board that have turned this into the defining moment of KSU football and launched into full blown tardrage. By themselves that documents two things:
1. Butler is spouting ridiculous tripe about Prince/KSU's recruitment of Kansas kids
2. Prince made bizarre comments in reference to the above
Everything I've said synchs up perfectly with that.
I especially like the idea that football coaches need to go around and personally explain why the didn't offer players scholarships. I hear that's what they do at all the big time programs. That's genius.
Perhaps you can start compiling the list of Kansas HS football players Prince hasn't offered, and he can start holding press conferences daily until he's explained them all.
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I enjoy that it's your side of the story which is correct, not the documented side of it.
If you've read my posts, you'll see that I'm the one pointing out that there is likely more to this story than a J-Mart Notebook and a Catbacker meeting. It's the tards on this board that have turned this into the defining moment of KSU football and launched into full blown tardrage. By themselves that documents two things:
1. Butler is spouting ridiculous tripe about Prince/KSU's recruitment of Kansas kids
2. Prince made bizarre comments in reference to the above
Everything I've said synchs up perfectly with that.
I especially like the idea that football coaches need to go around and personally explain why the didn't offer players scholarships. I hear that's what they do at all the big time programs. That's genius.
Perhaps you can start compiling the list of Kansas HS football players Prince hasn't offered, and he can start holding press conferences daily until he's explained them all.
It doesn't matter how ridiculous Butler's opinions are, the point is he has them. I personally don't think that what he has said has any validity to them when you look at the "facts", but again, it doesn't matter. I'm sure there is more to the story than what Butler said, but when you look at what actually happened and what has actually been said, you're making some kind of claim that can't be supported by anything except some powertard logic that your coach can never, ever do anything wrong and KSU is always the victim.
I'm basing my opinon on what's been stated and what has occurred thus far. I never said Prince couldn't ever establish a relationship with Butler; just that he hasn't because if he had one, I dont think Butler makes those comments, or if he does, he says something like "but Prince is working to change all of that".
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It doesn't matter how ridiculous Butler's opinions are, the point is he has them. I personally don't think that what he has said has any validity to them when you look at the "facts", but again, it doesn't matter. I'm sure there is more to the story than what Butler said, but when you look at what actually happened and what has actually been said, you're making some kind of claim that can't be supported by anything except some powertard logic that your coach can never, ever do anything wrong and KSU is always the victim.
I'm basing my opinon on what's been stated and what has occurred thus far. I never said Prince couldn't ever establish a relationship with Butler; just that he hasn't because if he had one, I dont think Butler makes those comments, or if he does, he says something like "but Prince is working to change all of that".
I'm starting to question if you can read at a third grade level. I've repeatedly expressed my concerns over what Prince did say, and what I think he should have said. Your inability to process that and include it in your responses is mind boggling, and is quintessential tard behavior. You have your mind made up, and can't respond to a person's points, all you can do is post over and over again your own point. Hilarity.
What claim did I make that is unsupported by the notebook and Catbacker event?
I love the assumptions you make in the last sentence. Were you consciously aware of the assumptions you made?
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It doesn't matter how ridiculous Butler's opinions are, the point is he has them. I personally don't think that what he has said has any validity to them when you look at the "facts", but again, it doesn't matter. I'm sure there is more to the story than what Butler said, but when you look at what actually happened and what has actually been said, you're making some kind of claim that can't be supported by anything except some powertard logic that your coach can never, ever do anything wrong and KSU is always the victim.
I'm basing my opinon on what's been stated and what has occurred thus far. I never said Prince couldn't ever establish a relationship with Butler; just that he hasn't because if he had one, I dont think Butler makes those comments, or if he does, he says something like "but Prince is working to change all of that".
I'm starting to question if you can read at a third grade level. I've repeatedly expressed my concerns over what Prince did say, and what I think he should have said. Your inability to process that and include it in your responses is mind boggling, and is quintessential tard behavior. You have your mind made up, and can't respond to a person's points, all you can do is post over and over again your own point. Hilarity.
What claim did I make that is unsupported by the notebook and Catbacker event?
I love the assumptions you make in the last sentence. Were you consciously aware of the assumptions you made?
Then wtf is your point? Who the f said that a coach should go around and explain why he did or didn't choose a recruit? Are you just making points up so you can retort? If there's more to the story, then let me have it....what, exactly, is there? When and where did you talk to Prince or Butler to get more of the scoop? Otherwise, you have no point, you're just pissed about what Butler said and can't deal with it.
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Here's a question for Scuba and KSU4ME:
If Butler is irrelevant, why have you two combined for over thirty posts in a thread about a journalist not asking Butler the right questions?
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BTW, this is some high-quality ass kissing:
“Pete Carroll said he’s the best linebacker that he’s seen in seven years,” Butler said. “Bob Stoops said he’s going to win the Butkus Award two times.”
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After Bryce Brown leaves Wichita, will Brian Butler even matter? Sure, Prince could have been the bigger man and not said anything about how he recruits, but the man can do what he wants. After the Brown brothers leave Wichita, Butler has absolutely no leverage on any school what so ever. Every prospect in Wichita is going to be a 2*,3*, or maybe an occasional 4* but none are going to be nationally saught after recruits, and none are going to be as close to Butler as the Brown brothers. I don't believe that future kids are going to listen to this guy simply because of his name association with Bryce and Arthur. Prospects like that come through Wichita once every 10 years and in 10 years Brian Butler will be irrelevant.
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After Bryce Brown leaves Wichita, will Brian Butler even matter? Sure, Prince could have been the bigger man and not said anything about how he recruits, but the man can do what he wants. After the Brown brothers leave Wichita, Butler has absolutely no leverage on any school what so ever. Every prospect in Wichita is going to be a 2*,3*, or maybe an occasional 4* but none are going to be nationally saught after recruits, and none are going to be as close to Butler as the Brown brothers. I don't believe that future kids are going to listen to this guy simply because of his name association with Bryce and Arthur. Prospects like that come through Wichita once every 10 years and in 10 years Brian Butler will be irrelevant.
If the Butlers go to Florida and USC and say, win a Butkus and a Doak Walker award, you can bet your ass that every football player in Wichita will be lining up to be trained by Butler. While we won't always have competition from the elite programs, we'll always have to compete with schools like OSU, Mizzou, and ku for the Rashad Washington type players that come out of Wichita quite often. Butler could do good things for kids, and in turn do good things for KSU. That being said, F*ck him. Ron doesn't need help.
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Here's a question for Scuba and KSU4ME:
If Butler is irrelevant, why have you two combined for over thirty posts in a thread about a journalist not asking Butler the right questions?
It was bad press for Prince and KSU. I don't care who said it. It's in the paper. It must be true. In fact it wasn't true, but that doesn't matter to Jeffrey Martin. He's just quoting. He wasn't being a journalist that day.
I don't remember saying that Butler is irrelevant, but he might be. All I know is he is going around making ridiculous comments in the paper.
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After Bryce Brown leaves Wichita, will Brian Butler even matter? Sure, Prince could have been the bigger man and not said anything about how he recruits, but the man can do what he wants. After the Brown brothers leave Wichita, Butler has absolutely no leverage on any school what so ever. Every prospect in Wichita is going to be a 2*,3*, or maybe an occasional 4* but none are going to be nationally saught after recruits, and none are going to be as close to Butler as the Brown brothers. I don't believe that future kids are going to listen to this guy simply because of his name association with Bryce and Arthur. Prospects like that come through Wichita once every 10 years and in 10 years Brian Butler will be irrelevant.
If the Butlers go to Florida and USC and say, win a Butkus and a Doak Walker award, you can bet your ass that every football player in Wichita will be lining up to be trained by Butler. While we won't always have competition from the elite programs, we'll always have to compete with schools like OSU, Mizzou, and ku for the Rashad Washington type players that come out of Wichita quite often. Butler could do good things for kids, and in turn do good things for KSU. That being said, F*ck him. Ron doesn't need help.
Every kid is going to want to be trained by Butler because he trained 2 already freak athletes? I have a hard time believing that everyone is going to want to go and train for this fat ass after 2 kids that would have been successful no matter what. Brian Butler did not make the Brown Bros. and even high school kids are going to be able to realize that even though you can't, Rusty.
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After Bryce Brown leaves Wichita, will Brian Butler even matter? Sure, Prince could have been the bigger man and not said anything about how he recruits, but the man can do what he wants. After the Brown brothers leave Wichita, Butler has absolutely no leverage on any school what so ever. Every prospect in Wichita is going to be a 2*,3*, or maybe an occasional 4* but none are going to be nationally saught after recruits, and none are going to be as close to Butler as the Brown brothers. I don't believe that future kids are going to listen to this guy simply because of his name association with Bryce and Arthur. Prospects like that come through Wichita once every 10 years and in 10 years Brian Butler will be irrelevant.
If the Butlers go to Florida and USC and say, win a Butkus and a Doak Walker award, you can bet your ass that every football player in Wichita will be lining up to be trained by Butler. While we won't always have competition from the elite programs, we'll always have to compete with schools like OSU, Mizzou, and ku for the Rashad Washington type players that come out of Wichita quite often. Butler could do good things for kids, and in turn do good things for KSU. That being said, F*ck him. Ron doesn't need help.
Every kid is going to want to be trained by Butler because he trained 2 already freak athletes? I have a hard time believing that everyone is going to want to go and train for this fat ass after 2 kids that would have been successful no matter what. Brian Butler did not make the Brown Bros. and even high school kids are going to be able to realize that even though you can't, Rusty.
Why do players go play for coaches that have reputations for getting players into the NFL? People are going to give Butler a lot of credit when these kids blow up in college. If you don't think every kid will want to have Butler's help then you just aren't very intelligent.
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After Bryce Brown leaves Wichita, will Brian Butler even matter? Sure, Prince could have been the bigger man and not said anything about how he recruits, but the man can do what he wants. After the Brown brothers leave Wichita, Butler has absolutely no leverage on any school what so ever. Every prospect in Wichita is going to be a 2*,3*, or maybe an occasional 4* but none are going to be nationally saught after recruits, and none are going to be as close to Butler as the Brown brothers. I don't believe that future kids are going to listen to this guy simply because of his name association with Bryce and Arthur. Prospects like that come through Wichita once every 10 years and in 10 years Brian Butler will be irrelevant.
If the Butlers go to Florida and USC and say, win a Butkus and a Doak Walker award, you can bet your ass that every football player in Wichita will be lining up to be trained by Butler. While we won't always have competition from the elite programs, we'll always have to compete with schools like OSU, Mizzou, and ku for the Rashad Washington type players that come out of Wichita quite often. Butler could do good things for kids, and in turn do good things for KSU. That being said, F*ck him. Ron doesn't need help.
Every kid is going to want to be trained by Butler because he trained 2 already freak athletes? I have a hard time believing that everyone is going to want to go and train for this fat ass after 2 kids that would have been successful no matter what. Brian Butler did not make the Brown Bros. and even high school kids are going to be able to realize that even though you can't, Rusty.
Why do players go play for coaches that have reputations for getting players into the NFL? People are going to give Butler a lot of credit when these kids blow up in college. If you don't think every kid will want to have Butler's help then you just aren't very intelligent.
I'm not very intelligent because I can see through Brian Butler's scheme to use the Brown bros. to set up a money maker for himself? Maybe the "people" you speak of are the ones who aren't very intelligent because they are the ones giving Butler credit for the Browns hard work and talent.
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Last I checked, high school football recruits buy into B.S. all of the time. For example, the Brown brothers. Players are going to see what the Browns do in college and Butler will be able to assume some credit for "getting their names out there."
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Not so sure the Browns "bought into B.S." They have been friends with Butler all along. Giving credit to Butler for their success.... That's B.S.
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Of course it's BS. But that doesn't mean that they won't. Or that they realize it's bs. What about the other thirty some kids that are in Butler's organization? Have all of them been friends with Butler for such a long time?
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The other 30 are there because the Browns are there and because coaches like Pete Carrol are there. No Browns = No Coaches = No Kids = No Butler. It's that simple.
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The other 30 are there because the Browns are there and because coaches like Pete Carrol are there. No Browns = No Coaches = No Kids = No Butler. It's that simple.
The point is that the Browns were there with Butler. That will do wonders for him. He's not a dumb guy. He knows what he's doing. His program will get recognition from the Browns. You watch and you'll see.
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In 2 years when Bryce is gone and Butler tries to put on his camp, no coaches are going to fly in from anywhere. A couple assistants from ku, KSU, OSU, OU, Tulsa, and maybe MU or CU might come, but it will go right back to the way it always been with kids going to camps and sending film to get noticed. It will end up being just another combine like others put on.
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and without the coaches coming to the camps, Butler won't get kids to pay him to train them. With no kids, he fades into irrelevance.
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The other 30 are there because the Browns are there and because coaches like Pete Carrol are there. No Browns = No Coaches = No Kids = No Butler. It's that simple.
One player cannot possibly jump start your career.
Signed,
Dalonte Hill
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Think of it this way. Chris Harper doesn't give a f*** about the Brown brothers or Brian Butler. He doesn't train with the guy and only went to his camp because the coaches were there. Not everyone is going to be shell shocked to meet a guy who trained the Brown bros, especially guys that are good enough to play at the next level without his help. The kids that buy into the B.S. are marginal at best, like Frank DeLarue.
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and without the coaches coming to the camps, Butler won't get kids to pay him to train them. With no kids, he fades into irrelevance.
First off, Butler doesn't get paid to do what he does. Secondly, kids are going to flock to Butler even if big time coaches aren't showing up. And honestly, it isn't a bad idea for them to do so. Because them being associated with Butler does give them a better chance to get recruited because people know about them then. The Browns being with Butler will help him immensely. He will be in with most of the talent that comes out of Wichita for years to come. Being in with Butler can only benefit us. End of story.
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You are saying kids will flock to Butler because of the Browns, who won't be there. Interesting. How will kids find out about Butler when the Browns are gone? He sure as hell won't be getting any interviews in the paper anymore, and the Brown brothers won't be there to advertise for him.
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You are saying kids will flock to Butler because of the Browns, who won't be there. Interesting. How will kids find out about Butler when the Browns are gone? He sure as hell won't be getting any interviews in the paper anymore, and the Brown brothers won't be there to advertise for him.
You're an idiot. Butler's name will always be associated with the Browns from here on out. I mean, crap, there's a three page thread about him right now on our board.
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Call me names if you want, but you didn't answer my question. When Bryce or Arthur are on ESPN, the reporters aren't going to say s%&* about Brian Butler. Right now Butler is associated with them because they are always in the news and he is their handler, in 3 years when they are in college there will be no connection between them unless he goes with them and in that case this whole conversation is moot. Walking around telling people about how he trained the Brown bros. won't do crap for him.
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Call me names if you want, but you didn't answer my question. When Bryce or Arthur are on ESPN, the reporters aren't going to say s%&* about Brian Butler. Right now Butler is associated with them because they are always in the news and he is their handler, in 3 years when they are in college there will be no connection between them unless he goes with them and in that case this whole conversation is moot. Walking around telling people about how he trained the Brown bros. won't do @#%$ for him.
You better believe that every kid in Wichita that has any D1 dreams from seventh grade on up knows who Brian Butler is. I'm not talking nationally, I'm talking locally. Kids that K-State signs every year.
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People don't care about the trainers, they care about the players. Ask a high school KSU fan to name a player then ask them to name the strength coach. Nobody gives a crap about Brian Butler, including kids who want to play at the next level.
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People don't care about the trainers, they care about the players. Ask a high school KSU fan to name a player then ask them to name the strength coach. Nobody gives a @#%$ about Brian Butler, including kids who want to play at the next level.
Alright, whatever you say. If nobody cared then nobody would be in his program (including the Browns).
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Powertard test
3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a k-state coach or administrator does?
This is clearly the criterion that is giving Scuba and KSU4ME (go ahead and get a new user name, dude) such a big powertard target on their backs. Their opinion would be completely different had it been a different beat writer and a different school.
You're really all over the place. So now it was about the recruitment of Kansas kids. Glad we got that cleared up.
A piece on a particular person's thoughts on a particular issue is not the same as a piece on that issue in general.
What value does Jeffrey provide over a voice recorder if all he does is regurgitate other's words without any analysis or additional relevant facts?
The value of regurgitating other's words without any analysis or additional relevant facts. (Yes, that is a serious response.)
In most of his other work, Jeffery does an amazing job of providing facts from other sources, great analysis, etc.
link?
Jeffrey's response is that it was just a notebook, and my reply is that while it's a subject he clearly felt worthy of an incendiary interview, it's strangely one he never followed up upon or included additional relevant facts/analysis at the time.
Can you give some examples of other notebooks that were followed up on or included additional relevant facts/analysis? Or else tell me why this one should be treated differently.
I missed your responses to the above, KSU4ME.
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Their opinion would be completely different had it been a different beat writer and a different school.
That's a complete lie. Take it back.
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Here's a question for Scuba and KSU4ME:
If Butler is irrelevant, why have you two combined for over thirty posts in a thread about a journalist not asking Butler the right questions?
It was bad press for Prince and KSU. I don't care who said it. It's in the paper. It must be true. In fact it wasn't true, but that doesn't matter to Jeffrey Martin. He's just quoting. He wasn't being a journalist that day.
Who does the bad press affect? The national media definitely doesn't give a crap. What about recruits? KC recruits know that KSU signs a crapload of KC kids. I'm guessing Texas, Cali, and Florida kids don't give a crap. That leaves...???
I think what's great about Powertards is that they HATE it when KSU receives negative press, but either justify or refuse to acknowledge KSU's role in the negative press.
1) The media blasts KSU for crappy scheduling, 'tards say it's needed.
2) KK criticizes Snyder for trying to sign a linebacker that killed a guy, powertards say Bill "Butter Pads" Snyder had no idea how a 24 year old he was recruiting was a sophomore in college.
3) Hate "Juco U" comments, but want nothing to do with higher entrance requirements for Juco's or higher academic standards for athletes.
4) A guy that could be a great ally for KSU football for the next few years airs some frustrations to the media, powertards lambast the guy who interviewed him and claim Ron did the best he could, even after he publicly mocked the potential ally.
:ksu:
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Their opinion would be completely different had it been a different beat writer and a different school.
That's a complete lie. Take it back.
Why is this not a standard case of the kind that you acknowledge below? I wouldn't believe you if you said that attack anyone who dares question any school's coach or administrator.
3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a k-state coach or administrator does? Yeah, pretty much.
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Here's a question for Scuba and KSU4ME:
If Butler is irrelevant, why have you two combined for over thirty posts in a thread about a journalist not asking Butler the right questions?
It was bad press for Prince and KSU. I don't care who said it. It's in the paper. It must be true. In fact it wasn't true, but that doesn't matter to Jeffrey Martin. He's just quoting. He wasn't being a journalist that day.
Who does the bad press affect? The national media definitely doesn't give a @#%$. What about recruits? KC recruits know that KSU signs a crapload of KC kids. I'm guessing Texas, Cali, and Florida kids don't give a @#%$. That leaves...???
I think what's great about Powertards is that they HATE it when KSU receives negative press, but either justify or refuse to acknowledge KSU's role in the negative press.
1) The media blasts KSU for crappy scheduling, 'tards say it's needed.
2) KK criticizes Snyder for trying to sign a linebacker that killed a guy, powertards say Bill "Butter Pads" Snyder had no idea how a 24 year old he was recruiting was a sophomore in college.
3) Hate "Juco U" comments, but want nothing to do with higher entrance requirements for Juco's or higher academic standards for athletes.
4) A guy that could be a great ally for KSU football for the next few years airs some frustrations to the media, powertards lambast the guy who interviewed him and claim Ron did the best he could, even after he publicly mocked the potential ally.
:ksu:
Considering that Prince is the head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats, I'd rather have him running the show.
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Their opinion would be completely different had it been a different beat writer and a different school.
That's a complete lie. Take it back.
Why is this not a standard case of the kind that you acknowledge below? I wouldn't believe you if you said that attack anyone who dares question any school's coach or administrator.
3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a k-state coach or administrator does? Yeah, pretty much.
I'm not quite sure what you mean, but it's a lie because it doesn't matter what beat writer it was I'd react the same. I got pissed at Parsons all the time. This board just wasn't around at the time and he didn't post over here. You are right about another school. I only care about my school. Any other school is someone else's problem.
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I know it's the off season, but my god, this thread is really annoying
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I'm not quite sure what you mean
Let me put it this way. The reason you dislike the article is because you took it to be negative toward KSU. It's not due to these peripheral concerns of one-sidedness or any of the other garbage that is being discussed. You just don't like anything you think is anti-KSU. Are we in agreement here?
Parts of if may be unfairly negative toward KSU. But instead of acknowledging both this and also that some of the other criticisms may be fair, you condemn the whole article.
These things make you come accross as nothing but a huge homer. And that's why you're getting some of the reactions you are - especially when you pretend that you are not a huge homer by focusing on the peripheral issues.
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I'm not quite sure what you mean
Let me put it this way. The reason you dislike the article is because you took it to be negative toward KSU. It's not due to these peripheral concerns of one-sidedness or any of the other garbage that is being discussed. You just don't like anything you think is anti-KSU. Are we in agreement here?
Parts of if may be unfairly negative toward KSU. But instead of acknowledging both this and also that some of the other criticisms may be fair, you condemn the whole article.
These things make you come accross as nothing but a huge homer. And that's why you're getting some of the reactions you are - especially when you pretend that you are not a huge homer by focusing on the peripheral issues.
If your point is that I'm a huge homer, then duh, I am. I admit I'm a homer. Are you dense? I'm a KSU fan. If this article was about ku, hell no I'm not going to bitch about it. Let some ku fan bitch about it. I think it was unfair to KSU and the football program so I bitched about it. WTF? By the way, I don't see any of the criticisms in this particular article to be fair.
By the way, I think that Ron Prince might do a very fine job. That's my opinion. Why is there something wrong with that?
Look, here's my deal. If I felt like it was productive to bash a coach or an administrator I'll do it. I was very outspoken about firing Wooldridge, a year before it happened. I was outspoken about Wefald giving him a reprieve when he did. What I don't understand is that some people constantly magnify and bring attention to every little mistake or shortcoming of Ron Prince. There is NOTHING PRODUCTIVE at this point in time for a KSU fan to do that. Let the guy go 3-9 this year and then bitch. I might even be right there with you, but he is not going anywhere for a few years and to be honest I WANT TO WIN. The guy went to a bowl game and beat #3 Texas in his first season, I truly don't know what you people are thinking. All bitching about him, making fun of him in any public forum makes his job harder. Is the guy perfect? No, but he is young. He can learn from his mistakes. I don't understand idiots like Rusty for example who think he's helping somehow by dogging on the guy constantly on message boards that recruits read. HOW IS THAT HELPING!!! You can disagree with what he is doing, but send him an e-mail for Christ's sake. Wait until there is a snowball's chance in hell that he could possibly be fired and then bitch in public. Anyone that's bitching now, here is what I have to say to them.
:ustupid:
By the way. I also think that Tim Weiser is doing a good job. So sue me.
I'm also tired of Deb Patterson, but I really don't give a rat's about women's basketball, so you don't hear me complaing about it.
Christ. Yes I'm a KSU homer. Isn't that what a fan is?
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My point is that you keep going on and on about the article when all you need to do is say, "I hate it because I'm a huge homer." Beyond that, there's just nothing to discuss.
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My point is that you keep going on and on about the article when all you need to do is say, "I hate it because I'm a huge homer." Beyond that, there's just nothing to discuss.
OK, stop discussing it. I don't feel like it, so I think I'll keep on doing it. Thanks for your help.
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We're actually not discussing the article now. We're discussing discussion of it.
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I don't understand idiots like Rusty for example who think he's helping somehow by dogging on the guy constantly on message boards that recruits read.
Are you saying I can influence recruits by what I type on a message board, but Ron's idiocy at the Catbacker function in front of 500 people is no big deal?
Sweet.
COME TO KSU, BROWN BROTHERS! RON PRINCE IS AWESOME!
:ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu:
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I mean, really. I can influence recuits, but Brian Butler is a "lost cause"?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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COME TO KSU, BROWN BROTHERS! RON PRINCE IS AWESOME!
:ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu:
That's a start.
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I mean, really. I can influence recuits, but Brian Butler is a "lost cause"?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You totally miss the point, but then
:ustupid:
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You were trying to make a point?
:lol: :lol:
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Rusty, by criticizing Ron for making those statements you have, in fact, ruined any chances of KSU landing the Browns. I hope you're proud of yourself.
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Should I ban Rusty for hurting our chances with recruits?
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I'm not quite sure what you mean
Let me put it this way. The reason you dislike the article is because you took it to be negative toward KSU. It's not due to these peripheral concerns of one-sidedness or any of the other garbage that is being discussed. You just don't like anything you think is anti-KSU. Are we in agreement here?
Parts of if may be unfairly negative toward KSU. But instead of acknowledging both this and also that some of the other criticisms may be fair, you condemn the whole article.
These things make you come accross as nothing but a huge homer. And that's why you're getting some of the reactions you are - especially when you pretend that you are not a huge homer by focusing on the peripheral issues.
If your point is that I'm a huge homer, then duh, I am. I admit I'm a homer. Are you dense? I'm a KSU fan. If this article was about ku, hell no I'm not going to bitch about it. Let some ku fan bitch about it. I think it was unfair to KSU and the football program so I bitched about it. WTF? By the way, I don't see any of the criticisms in this particular article to be fair.
By the way, I think that Ron Prince might do a very fine job. That's my opinion. Why is there something wrong with that?
Look, here's my deal. If I felt like it was productive to bash a coach or an administrator I'll do it. I was very outspoken about firing Wooldridge, a year before it happened. I was outspoken about Wefald giving him a reprieve when he did. What I don't understand is that some people constantly magnify and bring attention to every little mistake or shortcoming of Ron Prince. There is NOTHING PRODUCTIVE at this point in time for a KSU fan to do that. Let the guy go 3-9 this year and then bitch. I might even be right there with you, but he is not going anywhere for a few years and to be honest I WANT TO WIN. The guy went to a bowl game and beat #3 Texas in his first season, I truly don't know what you people are thinking. All bitching about him, making fun of him in any public forum makes his job harder. Is the guy perfect? No, but he is young. He can learn from his mistakes. I don't understand idiots like Rusty for example who think he's helping somehow by dogging on the guy constantly on message boards that recruits read. HOW IS THAT HELPING!!! You can disagree with what he is doing, but send him an e-mail for Christ's sake. Wait until there is a snowball's chance in hell that he could possibly be fired and then bitch in public. Anyone that's bitching now, here is what I have to say to them.
:ustupid:
By the way. I also think that Tim Weiser is doing a good job. So sue me.
I'm also tired of Deb Patterson, but I really don't give a rat's about women's basketball, so you don't hear me complaing about it.
Christ. Yes I'm a KSU homer. Isn't that what a fan is?
pretty good.
you were doing excellent until you gave rusty a cop-out with the "recruits read these boards" crap. :jerkoff:
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I think Scub's more general point about not posting something on a message board unless it is productive results in much more self-inflicted damage.
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I think Scub's more general point about not posting something on a message board unless it is productive results in much more self-inflicted damage.
QFT
I want Ron to succeed, BTW.
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(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/wildcatjerrod/threadkill.jpg)
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(http://mitheral.ca/images/Polaroid/kitten_die.jpg)
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(http://www.clubavalanche.com/forums/uploads/post-27-1066534370.jpg)
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Recruits hate kitten pictures.
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(http://stopthestupidity.com/sign_enter.jpg)
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(http://media.funlol.com/content/img/seriously-shut-up.jpg)
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you were doing excellent until you gave rusty a cop-out with the "recruits read these boards" crap. :jerkoff:
Michael Beasley's reading it, and his mother, but I'm sure the Brown brothers aren't.
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you were doing excellent until you gave rusty a cop-out with the "recruits read these boards" crap. :jerkoff:
Michael Beasley's reading it, and his mother, but I'm sure the Brown brothers aren't.
I'm also sure they listen to "Rusty" more than they listen to Brian Butler.
F*CK YOU, BRIAN BUTLER! DON'T LISTEN TO HIM, BRYCE! Arthur, "ScubaSteve" cares more about you than Butler does! Come to KSU!
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you were doing excellent until you gave rusty a cop-out with the "recruits read these boards" crap. :jerkoff:
Michael Beasley's reading it, and his mother, but I'm sure the Brown brothers aren't.
I'm also sure they listen to "Rusty" more than they listen to Brian Butler.
F*CK YOU, BRIAN BUTLER! DON'T LISTEN TO HIM, BRYCE! Arthur, "ScubaSteve" cares more about you than Butler does! Come to KSU!
I don't give you tha much credit Rusty. Nearly every post on this board revolves around how Ron Prince is an idiot or has screwed up somehow or will fail miserably. What did Huggins say about fan support?
There may be a time I turn on Ron Prince, but only an idiot would at this point. I'm not a rah, rah, "Oh Arthur please come to KSU" guy. I'm a "Don't listen to these idiots. Prince is doing a fine job." guy. By the way, I believe that to be the truth.
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Then wtf is your point? Who the f said that a coach should go around and explain why he did or didn't choose a recruit? Are you just making points up so you can retort? If there's more to the story, then let me have it....what, exactly, is there? When and where did you talk to Prince or Butler to get more of the scoop? Otherwise, you have no point, you're just pissed about what Butler said and can't deal with it.
Waks said Prince should explain why he didn't offer a KS HS kid. It's back one page. It is quite simply the dumbest comment in this thread. If you had read the exchanges on this board, you would know this by now.
I'm not pissed about what Butler said at all. I'm entertained by the tards on this board going stircrazy every time someone says something questioning the sacred cows (that's Butler and JMart).
Personally I think Butler is just using hyperbole to draw attention to himself and his efforts. Happens all the time and isn't a big deal at all. Prince's comments about JMart are even less of a deal. His comments about Butler also aren't going to have a real impact.
And I'm the one pointing out that there is quite likely a ton of unknowns to all the folks that have entered suicide watch after Prince jabbed a Wichita handler at a Catbacker event.
Here's a question for Scuba and KSU4ME:
If Butler is irrelevant, why have you two combined for over thirty posts in a thread about a journalist not asking Butler the right questions?
I'm not posting about Butler/JMart as much as I am the tards on this board going ballistic whenever those two are questioned. It's prime entertainment.
Have you figured out why you're so worked up over the issue given that you don't even know what impact Prince's words have had on Butler (your own admission)?
BTW, this is some high-quality ass kissing:
“Pete Carroll said he’s the best linebacker that he’s seen in seven years,” Butler said. “Bob Stoops said he’s going to win the Butkus Award two times.”
And the butt that got kissed was Brown's.....not Butlers.
I missed your responses to the above, KSU4ME.
3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a Wichita Reporter or Wichita "handler" does? <-- The criteria that puts Rusty, Waks and yourself firmly in the tard bucket. Like I said, your behavior is exactly the same as a Powertard, it's just a different subject that sets you off. Tard is as tard does, and you're all over it.
Here's your answers:
A piece on a particular person's thoughts on a particular issue is not the same as a piece on that issue in general.
You questioned if it was an article about "the recruitment of Kansas grads by Kansas universities" and that's exactly what it was.
The value of regurgitating other's words without any analysis or additional relevant facts. (Yes, that is a serious response.)
Well, that's stupid, and isn't what Martin does. Even in the Butler article he included quite a few relevant facts that didn't come from quotes. I can't believe you actually posted that.
link?
http://www.kansas.com/248/story/95031.html (http://www.kansas.com/248/story/95031.html)
Lots of sources, all sorts of peripheral facts, great article.
Can you give some examples of other notebooks that were followed up on or included additional relevant facts/analysis? Or else tell me why this one should be treated differently.
Never said a previous one did, as for a reason why there should be more on this story, I would say that the recruitment of Brown is something of major interest to KSU fans, and Martin is the KSU beat writer for Brown's hometown. If Martin wrote another story on the subject, don't you think it would be widely read and extensively commented on here?
Have you read this message board and J-Marts blog? It's a subject with quite a bit of interest.
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you were doing excellent until you gave rusty a cop-out with the "recruits read these boards" crap. :jerkoff:
Michael Beasley's reading it, and his mother, but I'm sure the Brown brothers aren't.
I'm also sure they listen to "Rusty" more than they listen to Brian Butler.
F*CK YOU, BRIAN BUTLER! DON'T LISTEN TO HIM, BRYCE! Arthur, "ScubaSteve" cares more about you than Butler does! Come to KSU!
I don't give you tha much credit Rusty. Nearly every post on this board revolves around how Ron Prince is an idiot or has screwed up somehow or will fail miserably. What did Huggins say about fan support?
There may be a time I turn on Ron Prince, but only an idiot would at this point. I'm not a rah, rah, "Oh Arthur please come to KSU" guy. I'm a "Don't listen to these idiots. Prince is doing a fine job." guy. By the way, I believe that to be the truth.
Who's turned on Ron Prince? I sure as crap haven't. That doesn't mean I won't criticize him when I think he deserves it.
I think bowl games (any) 3 out of 4 years should be plenty for a KSU football coach to keep his job.
And Ron went way beyond anything Wooly did in just one year.
It's awesome.
Glad Prince has balls (unlike some fans & other coaches).
I think the different color shirts in practice does so.
I don't remember hearing about that in the media.
I think Meier was definitely held more responsible for his mistakes then Freeman ever was. No way does Meier stay in the ku game as long as Freeman does.
A freshman should be given more leeway than a 5th year senior. As for the ku game, when do you pull Freeman? Down by a touchdown in the 4th?
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I'm not pissed about what Butler said at all. I'm entertained by the tards on this board going stircrazy every time someone says something questioning the sacred cows (that's Butler and JMart).
Not surprisingly, you still don't get it. I don't have a problem with criticism of Butler or Martin from posters on this board at all. I have said (in this thread, mind you) that Butler has an agenda and Martin should have asked more questions about KSU's recruitment of Kansas players. I don't even have a problem with Prince making fun of Martin, (even though it was silly).
I have a problem with Prince mocking Butler and letting their relationship deteriorate to that point and the notion that Ron Prince should be immune from criticism.
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Not surprisingly, you still don't get it. I don't have a problem with criticism of Butler or Martin from posters on this board at all. I have said (in this thread, mind you) that Butler has an agenda and Martin should have asked more questions about KSU's recruitment of Kansas players. I don't even have a problem with Prince making fun of Martin, (even though it was silly).
Then we agree.
I have a problem with Prince mocking Butler and letting their relationship deteriorate to that point and the notion that Ron Prince should be immune from criticism.
You have no idea what their relationship is and of course Prince shouldn't be immune from criticism. Send him an e-mail. Maybe he'll leak you a response and then we'll all know what the deal is. He isn't going to tell Jeffrey Martin, that's for sure.
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You have no idea what their relationship is and of course Prince shouldn't be immune from criticism.
Actually, he gave a pretty good indication at the Wichita Catbacker event.
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You have no idea what their relationship is and of course Prince shouldn't be immune from criticism.
Actually, he gave a pretty good indication at the Wichita Catbacker event.
Change your mind on the e-mail Rusty? :lol:
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You have no idea what their relationship is and of course Prince shouldn't be immune from criticism.
Actually, he gave a pretty good indication at the Wichita Catbacker event.
Change your mind on the e-mail Rusty? :lol:
Nope, it's sent. I figured he (and recruits) would know it's me sending the email.
I guess my veil of secrecy is gone, now.
:-[
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3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a Wichita Reporter or Wichita "handler" does? <-- The criteria that puts Rusty, Waks and yourself firmly in the tard bucket. Like I said, your behavior is exactly the same as a Powertard, it's just a different subject that sets you off. Tard is as tard does, and you're all over it.
You've missed the mark here. My focus is almost always homers. Jeff Martin, Ron Prince, and Brian Butler are all incidental for me. I just jump in where the homers do.
A piece on a particular person's thoughts on a particular issue is not the same as a piece on that issue in general.
You questioned if it was an article about "the recruitment of Kansas grads by Kansas universities" and that's exactly what it was.
No, it was an article about Brian Butler and/or Arthur Brown. Whatever the exact topic is, it is much, much smaller than the recruitment of Kansas grads by Kansas universities. That topic is really much too large to tackle in a newspaper article, don't you think?
The value of regurgitating other's words without any analysis or additional relevant facts. (Yes, that is a serious response.)
Well, that's stupid, and isn't what Martin does. Even in the Butler article he included quite a few relevant facts that didn't come from quotes. I can't believe you actually posted that.
There is a lot of value in it. And reporters do it literally all of the time. I'm afraid that you're just wrong.
link?
http://www.kansas.com/248/story/95031.html (http://www.kansas.com/248/story/95031.html)
Lots of sources, all sorts of peripheral facts, great article.
Let's just cut the BS. You like it because it makes you feel good about KSU.
Can you give some examples of other notebooks that were followed up on or included additional relevant facts/analysis? Or else tell me why this one should be treated differently.
Never said a previous one did, as for a reason why there should be more on this story, I would say that the recruitment of Brown is something of major interest to KSU fans, and Martin is the KSU beat writer for Brown's hometown. If Martin wrote another story on the subject, don't you think it would be widely read and extensively commented on here?
Have you read this message board and J-Marts blog? It's a subject with quite a bit of interest.
There are plenty of stories other than Arthur Brown that are of major interest. That's not what makes this different. People are getting bent out of shape due to an article that they perceive to be negative.
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Not surprisingly, you still don't get it. I don't have a problem with criticism of Butler or Martin from posters on this board at all. I have said (in this thread, mind you) that Butler has an agenda and Martin should have asked more questions about KSU's recruitment of Kansas players. I don't even have a problem with Prince making fun of Martin, (even though it was silly).
I have a problem with Prince mocking Butler and letting their relationship deteriorate to that point and the notion that Ron Prince should be immune from criticism.
You're the one on record saying you don't know what impact it had, but you're still upset about it. That's what I find hilarious. No clue what the situation is, how it's changed, etc. but it still pisses you off.
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You're the one on record saying you don't know what impact it had, but you're still upset about it. That's what I find hilarious. No clue what the situation is, how it's changed, etc. but it still pisses you off.
I don't need to know the exact impact to know it's a dumb idea. Doing anything that could possibly burn a bridge with an important recruiting figure is a bad idea, just like it's a bad idea for a salesman to burn a bridge with a potential major customer.
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You've missed the mark here. My focus is almost always homers. Jeff Martin, Ron Prince, and Brian Butler are all incidental for me. I just jump in where the homers do.
No, it was an article about Brian Butler and/or Arthur Brown. Whatever the exact topic is, it is much, much smaller than the recruitment of Kansas grads by Kansas universities. That topic is really much too large to tackle in a newspaper article, don't you think?
There is a lot of value in it. And reporters do it literally all of the time. I'm afraid that you're just wrong.
Let's just cut the BS. You like it because it makes you feel good about KSU.
That's an altogether stupid assessment. That's a well written article about a guy that is considering KSU. And he's not even our top target. But it has a ton of information. And very little of the information is about KSU, it's mostly about Wes and his AAU coach.
Your hangup is that you still think I came over from Rivals. Here's a tip, I don't have a subscription, and don't read the boards there. What kills me is how tightly wrapped around the axle the posters here get on the Butler/J-Mart issue....while at the same time poking fun at people that over react to Prince issues.
If you can't see the irony....it's your tardness getting in the way.
Believe me, folks that are ballistic over Prince in this deal are just as asinine as those ballistic over Butler.
There are plenty of stories other than Arthur Brown that are of major interest. That's not what makes this different. People are getting bent out of shape due to an article that they perceive to be negative.
Is there a bigger recruit that KSU is after in football? What other football stories are out there that are bigger? You're really, really starting to flail now. You know it's a big story, otherwise you wouldn't still be talking about it.
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You're the one on record saying you don't know what impact it had, but you're still upset about it. That's what I find hilarious. No clue what the situation is, how it's changed, etc. but it still pisses you off.
I don't need to know the exact impact to know it's a dumb idea. Doing anything that could possibly burn a bridge with an important recruiting figure is a bad idea, just like it's a bad idea for a salesman to burn a bridge with a potential major customer.
So it's not when something happens that you go ballistic, it's when something could happen?
Don't you think that kind of overreaction is what defines Powertards?
You know, the Powertard behavior of getting upset over what folks say negative about Prince because it could have a negative impact on recruiting? That's classic Powertard behavior.
But you're doing the same thing with the Prince firing off a jab at Butler.
You're clearly more intelligent than the other bottom feeders I'm dealing with, tell me you can at least see that similarity. Or is it that hard to look in the mirror?
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Can anyone try to make a point without accusing someone else of being a powertard or a powertard analogue? I hope not. I love it.
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Can anyone try to make a point without accusing someone else of being a powertard or a powertard analogue? I hope not. I love it.
Why don't you shut up and keep this thread on topic -- TARD!
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Martin got laid into pretty good on this board after the article came out. It isn't like there wasn't multiple threads, multiple pages long in which people jumped all over Martin and Butler. I don't really see anyone going ballistic. People made comments about how they didn't think it was very smart for Prince to say what he said at the Catbacker event, and then it was everyone else who got their panties in a wad over questioning the almighty coach.
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So it's not when something happens that you go ballistic, it's when something could happen?
Does anyone else besides KSU4ME honestly think I'm going "ballistic"? LMK.
You know, the Powertard behavior of getting upset over what folks say negative about Prince because it could have a negative impact on recruiting? That's classic Powertard behavior.
But you're doing the same thing with the Prince firing off a jab at Butler.
You're clearly more intelligent than the other bottom feeders I'm dealing with, tell me you can at least see that similarity. Or is it that hard to look in the mirror?
If you can't recognize the subtle differences between "folks" saying negative things about Prince on an anonymous internet message board and Prince saying negative things about Butler in his hometown....well, I just can't help you there.
Besides, even if Prince's Butler comments don't have an effect on recruiting at all, it's a glaring sign of incompetence, at best.
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powertard analogue
bizarro-powertard
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Does anyone else besides KSU4ME honestly think I'm going "ballistic"? LMK.
I do.
Besides, even if Prince's Butler comments don't have an effect on recruiting at all, it's a glaring sign of incompetence, at best.
WTF? Rusty, you're losing it.
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KSU4ME could be the worst username on the board. Seriously, name one that is worse.
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is KSU4ME also Mr. Small Penis Syndrome?
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KSU4ME could be the worst username on the board. Seriously, name one that is worse.
"waks"
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KSU4ME could be the worst username on the board. Seriously, name one that is worse.
kstate[insert numeral]
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Does anyone else besides KSU4ME honestly think I'm going "ballistic"? LMK.
If you can't recognize the subtle differences between "folks" saying negative things about Prince on an anonymous internet message board and Prince saying negative things about Butler in his hometown....well, I just can't help you there.
Besides, even if Prince's Butler comments don't have an effect on recruiting at all, it's a glaring sign of incompetence, at best.
Keep posting about it.
And I was wrong. You're clearly not brighter than some of the other dims on this board. I never compared saying negative things about Prince to Prince saying negative things about Butler. Not once. How you came to that conclusion can only be explained through thorough medication and professional therapy.
I compared powertards over reacting to negative anonymous message board comments about KSU/Prince to the tards here over reacting to any anonymous message board comment negative towards Butler/J-Mart.
Is it starting to make sense to you yet?
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I compared powertards over reacting to negative anonymous message board comments about KSU/Prince to the tards here over reacting to any anonymous message board comment negative towards Butler/J-Mart.
Wow. This is getting deep.
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3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a Wichita Reporter or Wichita "handler" does? <-- The criteria that puts Rusty, Waks and yourself firmly in the tard bucket. Like I said, your behavior is exactly the same as a Powertard, it's just a different subject that sets you off. Tard is as tard does, and you're all over it.
I don't care if you question J-Mart for anything. It doesn't matter to me. Everyone is subject to criticism. I mean, I like the guy, but I've disagreed with him on numerous occasions. I even think that a negative bias shows in some of his articles that he writes about Prince. What I do care about is that you've turned this ridiculous thread into four pages of crap and that you continually make this thread go on and on with meaningless drivel. This is a dead issue. There is no point to discuss it any further.
And thanks for taking things out of context, too. I said that Prince should talk to Butler about whatever problems it is that Butler has with the football program (since he does hold the key to some of the biggest targets we've ever been after). One of them being Delarue and the treatment of Kansas kids. I don't think he necessarily needs to explain why he doesn't take this recruit and that recruit, but he should try and stay in good graces with Butler and not bash the guy in a public forum.
I've turned this into a ridiculous thread? The tards around here turned one sentence uttered at a Catbacker event about a Wichita handler into the decisive issue of Wildcat football. It's utterly hilarious.
Do you even know how many Wichita or Kansas kids Butler is the gatekeeper to? How about how many Wichita kids Prince has signed? If Butler is such a player for Wichita talent, and Prince has screwed up the relationship, how is he signing Wichita kids in every class?
Prince needs to explain to Butler why he felt that Delarue did not deserve a scholarship.
Please explain how that was taken out of context. Words have meanings, are you unaware of what those meanings are?
By the way...keep posting. My goal is to hit 10 pages before mid-July.
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I have to admit, when I start ripping at another's username, I've pretty much been beaten.
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is KSU4ME also Mr. Small Penis Syndrome?
You caught me. You caught the 'tater.
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I compared powertards over reacting to negative anonymous message board comments about KSU/Prince to the tards here over reacting to any anonymous message board comment negative towards Butler/J-Mart.
Wow. This is getting deep.
It did go over your head for five pages. Glad to see you're all caught up now.
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3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a Wichita Reporter or Wichita "handler" does? <-- The criteria that puts Rusty, Waks and yourself firmly in the tard bucket. Like I said, your behavior is exactly the same as a Powertard, it's just a different subject that sets you off. Tard is as tard does, and you're all over it.
I don't care if you question J-Mart for anything. It doesn't matter to me. Everyone is subject to criticism. I mean, I like the guy, but I've disagreed with him on numerous occasions. I even think that a negative bias shows in some of his articles that he writes about Prince. What I do care about is that you've turned this ridiculous thread into four pages of crap and that you continually make this thread go on and on with meaningless drivel. This is a dead issue. There is no point to discuss it any further.
And thanks for taking things out of context, too. I said that Prince should talk to Butler about whatever problems it is that Butler has with the football program (since he does hold the key to some of the biggest targets we've ever been after). One of them being Delarue and the treatment of Kansas kids. I don't think he necessarily needs to explain why he doesn't take this recruit and that recruit, but he should try and stay in good graces with Butler and not bash the guy in a public forum.
I've turned this into a ridiculous thread? The tards around here turned one sentence uttered at a Catbacker event about a Wichita handler into the decisive issue of Wildcat football. It's utterly hilarious.
Do you even know how many Wichita or Kansas kids Butler is the gatekeeper to? How about how many Wichita kids Prince has signed? If Butler is such a player for Wichita talent, and Prince has screwed up the relationship, how is he signing Wichita kids in every class?
Prince needs to explain to Butler why he felt that Delarue did not deserve a scholarship.
Please explain how that was taken out of context. Words have meanings, are you unaware of what those meanings are?
By the way...keep posting. My goal is to hit 10 pages before mid-July.
Butler is the keeper of 50+ kids ranging from seventh graders to high school seniors. Prince hasn't signed any of his kids (the ones with talent).
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I have to admit, when I start ripping at another's username, I've pretty much been beaten.
I have no reason to admit something like that. The person with the worst username deserves a good beat down. KSU4ME is long overdue.
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I have to admit, when I start ripping at another's username, I've pretty much been beaten.
I have no reason to admit something like that. The person with the worst username deserves a good beat down. KSU4ME is long overdue.
You still don't agree that "waks" is the worst username?
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Butler is the keeper of 50+ kids ranging from seventh graders to high school seniors. Prince hasn't signed any of his kids (the ones with talent).
Names?
Or do you think because someone went to his event they are beholden to his collegiate advice?
Could you be that daft?
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I have to admit, when I start ripping at another's username, I've pretty much been beaten.
I have no reason to admit something like that. The person with the worst username deserves a good beat down. KSU4ME is long overdue.
You still don't agree that "waks" is the worst username?
No way. Not even close.
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Butler is the keeper of 50+ kids ranging from seventh graders to high school seniors. Prince hasn't signed any of his kids (the ones with talent).
Names?
Or do you think because someone went to his event they are beholden to his collegiate advice?
Could you be that daft?
I'm going off of J-Mart's information. You know, my hero?
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bump from thinking about our 7 true freshmen on scholarship
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:bump:
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I have to admit, when I start ripping at another's username, I've pretty much been beaten.
I have no reason to admit something like that. The person with the worst username deserves a good beat down. KSU4ME is long overdue.
You still don't agree that "waks" is the worst username?
No way. Not even close.
you do know what waks stands for..right?
its pretty bad. as in lame. bad lame. balame.
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I have to admit, when I start ripping at another's username, I've pretty much been beaten.
I have no reason to admit something like that. The person with the worst username deserves a good beat down. KSU4ME is long overdue.
You still don't agree that "waks" is the worst username?
No way. Not even close.
you do know what waks stands for..right?
its pretty bad. as in lame. bad lame. balame.
Are you arguing with a dude from a year and a half ago?
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I know what it stands for. Most don't. That's why it's not one of the worst ever.
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I have to admit, when I start ripping at another's username, I've pretty much been beaten.
I have no reason to admit something like that. The person with the worst username deserves a good beat down. KSU4ME is long overdue.
You still don't agree that "waks" is the worst username?
No way. Not even close.
you do know what waks stands for..right?
its pretty bad. as in lame. bad lame. balame.
Are you arguing with a dude from a year and a half ago?
that dude from a year and a half ago will find his way back to this thread as you lay your wee head on your pilla tonight.
you used to sleep well. those days are over.
I know what it stands for. Most don't. That's why it's not one of the worst ever.
i guess. i thought any with k or state or kansas or cat were all on the lame list.
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I have to admit, when I start ripping at another's username, I've pretty much been beaten.
I have no reason to admit something like that. The person with the worst username deserves a good beat down. KSU4ME is long overdue.
You still don't agree that "waks" is the worst username?
No way. Not even close.
you do know what waks stands for..right?
its pretty bad. as in lame. bad lame. balame.
Are you arguing with a dude from a year and a half ago?
that dude from a year and a half ago will find his way back to this thread as you lay your wee head on your pilla tonight.
you used to sleep well. those days are over.
I know what it stands for. Most don't. That's why it's not one of the worst ever.
i guess. i thought any with k or state or kansas or cat were all on the lame list.
Clearly you do not know what it stands for, ECN. Nowhere in it's true meaning will you find k, kansas, cat or state. LWUNIQ.