Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.

[catzacker]

Not the same guy, but I'm still greedy about this team. Yea Bill would be fracked after another knee injury. Take the money and run. I'm a realist so I accept that. I'm pissed Bills riding the pine in the NBA after 2 seasons instead of rolling the dice and taking a risk in the name of glory. My tardish belief is if Bill stays and DOESN'T blow out his knee, we make the NCAAs instead of the BS NIT. Shoulda woulda coulda is all that is now. Not that anything matters with BW anymore.

I have a random theory that KSU w/ Bill last season = OU w/ WWIII this season.  I have nothing to back it up, but I wonder.

I agree with this assessment.  I believe the kids say "qft". 

[SleepFighter]

It's very doubtful that whoever takes over primary ball handling duties next year will have a TORate as low as Denis.   

The idea that a transition shot is the same as a turnover is stupid on it's face.  Not many passes out of bounds have a 30%+ chance of granting 3 points to the team turning the ball over.  Also, it's much harder to rebound a turnover.

you're splitting hairs

I'll simplify.

Our guards will turn the ball over more next year.

Missed shots are better than turnovers.

you must have watched good will hunting last night.  do you understand what the term "splitting hairs" means, will?

Don't agree that the differences are unimportant, random townie at the bar.

[EllToPay]

Not the same guy, but I'm still greedy about this team. Yea Bill would be fracked after another knee injury. Take the money and run. I'm a realist so I accept that. I'm pissed Bills riding the pine in the NBA after 2 seasons instead of rolling the dice and taking a risk in the name of glory. My tardish belief is if Bill stays and DOESN'T blow out his knee, we make the NCAAs instead of the BS NIT. Shoulda woulda coulda is all that is now. Not that anything matters with BW anymore.

:powerespect:

[steve dave]

Don't agree that the differences are unimportant, random townie at the bar.

 

[Pexikan]

:powerespect:            Not the first time, won't be the last either.

[pissclams]

It's very doubtful that whoever takes over primary ball handling duties next year will have a TORate as low as Denis.   

The idea that a transition shot is the same as a turnover is stupid on it's face.  Not many passes out of bounds have a 30%+ chance of granting 3 points to the team turning the ball over.  Also, it's much harder to rebound a turnover.

you're splitting hairs

I'll simplify.

Our guards will turn the ball over more next year.

Missed shots are better than turnovers.

you must have watched good will hunting last night.  do you understand what the term "splitting hairs" means, will?

Don't agree that the differences are unimportant, random townie at the bar.

you must be thinking  of new 'clams.  i'm very not random, ask any of my good friends.

[pissclams]

What are those things that we'll miss when he's gone? 

a good PG?  someone who when he gets hot can impact a game about as much as any player in the country?

so you're saying we won't have a good point guard next year? really? why do we need a point guard?  michigancat will tell you the billion reasons why true point guards are overrated.  pullen and mcorebs will do fine.

you're overvaluing denis' once a year Texas game imo.  where was the greatest PG known to man last Saturday, where was he against UT this year?

but he went off against nebraska.  so what, we won that game without Denis.

[steve dave]

It's very doubtful that whoever takes over primary ball handling duties next year will have a TORate as low as Denis.   

The idea that a transition shot is the same as a turnover is stupid on it's face.  Not many passes out of bounds have a 30%+ chance of granting 3 points to the team turning the ball over.  Also, it's much harder to rebound a turnover.

you're splitting hairs

I'll simplify.

Our guards will turn the ball over more next year.

Missed shots are better than turnovers.

you must have watched good will hunting last night.  do you understand what the term "splitting hairs" means, will?

Don't agree that the differences are unimportant, random townie at the bar.

you must be thinking  of new 'clams.  i'm very not random, ask any of my good friends.

I can confirm the non-randomness of clams.  He sticks out a lot.  Also into very interesting things. 

[kougar24]

People take Denis for granted more than about any player I can remember.  I think we'll be a very good team next year, but we will miss a lot of the things that Denis does.  The people that say he won't be missed at all are the ones that are probably the silliness.

And let's be clear, much of the thought about Denis stems from an old school basketball philosophy, a SLTH philosophy even. 

Is Clemente's game without error?  Not at all.  But I said it the other day; I'm betting Frank will always have a Clemente-type player (or Walker-type) that earns his trust and gets more freedom than anyone else.  But these guys also set the mentality of the team and the way Frank wants the team to play; and I think having a Clemente or Walker type is just going to be part of any Frank Martin coached team.

So who will take over that role next year? JamSam? 

Pullen already is the same player.  And I don't think Walker's a very good comparison to these guys.  His issues were always effort related more than anything, but his talent gave him free reign.  Pullen and Clemente go hard all the time, and for the most part play good defense, which gives them more leeway than Nick Russell or Martavious.

Also, it's stupid to think you should have the same "rules" or whatever for every player.  You don't sit Clemente or Pullen for very long to teach them lessons about shot selection.  Well, you don't if you want to win basketball games.

I was with you until you said Clemente played good D.

[Broadway]

" So, in fairness, I will first, again, point out what is right with Clemente,"

Comma Kitchen  

[michigancat]

What are those things that we'll miss when he's gone? 

a good PG?  someone who when he gets hot can impact a game about as much as any player in the country?

so you're saying we won't have a good point guard next year? really? why do we need a point guard?  michigancat will tell you the billion reasons why true point guards are overrated.  pullen and mcorebs will do fine.

combo guards are underrated, though.  I wish every player had point guard skills, actually.

[pissclams]

What are those things that we'll miss when he's gone? 

a good PG?  someone who when he gets hot can impact a game about as much as any player in the country?

so you're saying we won't have a good point guard next year? really? why do we need a point guard?  michigancat will tell you the billion reasons why true point guards are overrated.  pullen and mcorebs will do fine.

combo guards are underrated, though.  I wish every player had point guard skills, actually.

denis doesn't even have point guards skills though

[steve dave]

denis doesn't even have point guards skills though

explain

[steve dave]

http://cjonline.com/sports/basketball/2010-02-04/column_what_makes_a_perfect_point_guard

 

[mcmwcat]

http://cjonline.com/sports/basketball/2010-02-04/column_what_makes_a_perfect_point_guard

 

meek just curb stomped kitchen

[JMart]

 

[SleepFighter]

http://cjonline.com/sports/basketball/2010-02-04/column_what_makes_a_perfect_point_guard

 

I like how he says he's not going to pick a side, and then he totally picks a side.

Hopefully this heats up enough for @Austin-vs-Kitchen.

[WillieWatanabe]

can't wait to see what cole writes...

[ChiComCat]

http://cjonline.com/sports/basketball/2010-02-04/column_what_makes_a_perfect_point_guard

 

meek just curb stomped kitchen

I think Kitchen really has to hit back here.

[catzacker]

holy crap.  it's about to get real.  like this, 'cept with writers.

[ChiComCat]

Come on Meek, we see you poking around here 

[michigancat]

People take Denis for granted more than about any player I can remember.  I think we'll be a very good team next year, but we will miss a lot of the things that Denis does.  The people that say he won't be missed at all are the ones that are probably the silliness.

And let's be clear, much of the thought about Denis stems from an old school basketball philosophy, a SLTH philosophy even. 

Is Clemente's game without error?  Not at all.  But I said it the other day; I'm betting Frank will always have a Clemente-type player (or Walker-type) that earns his trust and gets more freedom than anyone else.  But these guys also set the mentality of the team and the way Frank wants the team to play; and I think having a Clemente or Walker type is just going to be part of any Frank Martin coached team.

So who will take over that role next year? JamSam? 

Pullen already is the same player.  And I don't think Walker's a very good comparison to these guys.  His issues were always effort related more than anything, but his talent gave him free reign.  Pullen and Clemente go hard all the time, and for the most part play good defense, which gives them more leeway than Nick Russell or Martavious.

Also, it's stupid to think you should have the same "rules" or whatever for every player.  You don't sit Clemente or Pullen for very long to teach them lessons about shot selection.  Well, you don't if you want to win basketball games.

I was with you until you said Clemente played good D.

The defense is better when he's on the court than when he's off.  Look at the plus/minus numbers I linked.  Only Pullen and Kelly(!) have a bigger defensive impact.

And meek was too nice to kitchen.

[kougar24]

People take Denis for granted more than about any player I can remember.  I think we'll be a very good team next year, but we will miss a lot of the things that Denis does.  The people that say he won't be missed at all are the ones that are probably the silliness.

And let's be clear, much of the thought about Denis stems from an old school basketball philosophy, a SLTH philosophy even. 

Is Clemente's game without error?  Not at all.  But I said it the other day; I'm betting Frank will always have a Clemente-type player (or Walker-type) that earns his trust and gets more freedom than anyone else.  But these guys also set the mentality of the team and the way Frank wants the team to play; and I think having a Clemente or Walker type is just going to be part of any Frank Martin coached team.

So who will take over that role next year? JamSam? 

Pullen already is the same player.  And I don't think Walker's a very good comparison to these guys.  His issues were always effort related more than anything, but his talent gave him free reign.  Pullen and Clemente go hard all the time, and for the most part play good defense, which gives them more leeway than Nick Russell or Martavious.

Also, it's stupid to think you should have the same "rules" or whatever for every player.  You don't sit Clemente or Pullen for very long to teach them lessons about shot selection.  Well, you don't if you want to win basketball games.

I was with you until you said Clemente played good D.

The defense is better when he's on the court than when he's off.  Look at the plus/minus numbers I linked.  Only Pullen and Kelly(!) have a bigger defensive impact.

And meek was too nice to kitchen.

Denis has a "net defense" number of -3.0 in that thing you linked. I have no idea how to interpret that.

[michigancat]

Denis has a "net defense" number of -3.0 in that thing you linked. I have no idea how to interpret that.

It means that when he was on the court, KSU's opponents scored 3 fewer points per 100 possessions than when he was off.  In other words, KSU's defense is better when he is on the court.  You shouldn't judge his defense based off a Morningstar three and backdoor just like you shouldn't judge his offense based on 44@UT.

[kougar24]

Denis has a "net defense" number of -3.0 in that thing you linked. I have no idea how to interpret that.

It means that when he was on the court, KSU's opponents scored 3 fewer points per 100 possessions than when he was off.  In other words, KSU's defense is better when he is on the court.  You shouldn't judge his defense based off a Morningstar three and backdoor just like you shouldn't judge his offense based on 44@UT.

Oh, I agree, but I've watched his D all year....those weren't isolated incidents. He's really remarkably slow laterally for how fast he is vertically, and his help D leaves something to be desired as well (often out of position, doesn't cheat off his man away from the ball, loses track of the ball or his man, etc.).

I'm glad he isn't killing us statistically on D, but I'm comfortable in my personal assessment that he's a pretty poor defender.