Author Topic: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??  (Read 78895 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 88356
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #625 on: November 02, 2024, 11:08:51 PM »
We have high expectations, and that’s ok imo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline nicname

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 16971
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #626 on: November 02, 2024, 11:14:42 PM »
Talent doesn’t have anything to do with toughness. He’s obviously immensely talented, and will continue to get better. Hell, his numbers are better than any first year QB we’ve had outside of Klein and Bishop.

That said, he often doesn’t take off to gain valuable yards when no one is open. When he does run he typically doesn’t gain, or even attempt to gain the maximum amount of yards available. When he throws a pick he’s typically nowhere near in position to attempt to make a tackle.

If he’s often standing in there in the pocket and getting clocked while making a throw as MIR pointed out, I’m just not seeing it. But kudos if this is the case and a major toughness point if that is the case.

Would I like to see him grow in regard to the statements made above? Absolutely.

Am I expecting him to be used like Alex Delton? Absolutely not.

Is he being hamstrung by our milquetoast offensive coordination? I think probably so.

I said on the other board that a lot of it is our/my perception and expectation of what a KSU offense and QB performance should look and feel like. We don’t have to be that, and neither does Avery have to be a clone of those former QBs.

But whatever Wells and Riley are doing with this Johnson-led offense is often frustrating, uninspired and frustrating.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline nicname

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 16971
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #627 on: November 02, 2024, 11:15:50 PM »
Also, no one on this board, myself included, ever had a problem throwing Jake Waters under the bus.

If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline DaBigTrain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 12698
  • stuxnet, meltdown, spectre, Bitcoin, ffChamp
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #628 on: November 03, 2024, 01:24:12 AM »
Also, no one on this board, myself included, ever had a problem throwing Jake Waters under the bus.
Well yeah, because anyone with a pulse knew DSams was better.
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

https://blockstream.info/block/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 55905
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #629 on: November 03, 2024, 05:46:03 AM »
Avery is 100% going to take some team to a championship (conference and possibly more).  I hope it's with us and we don't waste his talent.

Yep. I don't know how anyone can see that pass he made to Jayce up the sideline, in a driving rainstorm, while being hit, and get mad that we don't use him like he's Alex Delton or some crap. I've been sitting on my ass, watching games all day, and he's absolutely one of the 10 most talented QBs in the country.

What's maddening is that outside of that play and the drive before halftime, we tried to use him like Alex Delton playing on a bum ankle. I'm sure the weather played a role but the weather was probably worst during that play to Jayce.

Avery's decisions to scramble or move in the pocket seem to get better every week. I really didn't see him doing anything wrong. If anyone thinks he should be taking hits to get another two yards after he already scrambled for a first down should really think a little more.

Online wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 32447
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #630 on: November 03, 2024, 06:04:06 AM »
It's kind of hard to believe we threw the ball 40 times in a high wind heavy rain environment.  Weird game all around. 
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline Cire

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 20618
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #631 on: November 03, 2024, 11:02:12 AM »
Poorly coached and executed. They just out toughed us and we started pressing instead of just grinding.

Offline wayoutwestwillie

  • Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #632 on: November 03, 2024, 03:37:32 PM »
Two (2) interceptions in the fourth (4th) quarter, look no further...the coefficient of friction between human skin and modern football material is inversely related to the local precipitation rate. 

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 45919
  • big roas man
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #633 on: November 04, 2024, 08:31:08 AM »
Hell, his numbers are better than any first year QB we’ve had outside of Klein and Bishop.

Is he being hamstrung by our milquetoast offensive coordination? I think probably so.

But whatever Wells and Riley are doing with this Johnson-led offense is often frustrating, uninspired and frustrating.

Obvious contradiction here aside, Avery Johnson's passing numbers this year are not just a little better but significantly better than Bishop in '97 and Klein in '11.

Not really sure how this will be yeah butted, you didn't make a very compelling argument that Avery should be running more given Bishop in '97 and especially Klein in '11 really needed to use their legs to make up for passing deficiencies.

Even Avery's rushing stats this year will be pretty similar, in some cases will exceed Bishop's 1997 rushing stats. A look at the numbers shows your take is nothing but emotional, reactionary, and not based on any data, at all. Statistically, Avery is in line to have the second best quarterback season, only behind '98 Bishop since 1996. Collin Klein was a horrible passer and should never be mentioned again and he was a running back under center.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/avery-johnson-2.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/collin-klein-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-freeman-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/michael-bishop-1.html

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 7825
  • 1cat
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #634 on: November 04, 2024, 12:20:40 PM »
I haven't looked up any stats or anything, but Avery seems very much like Will as a soph. Dumb mistakes and flashes of greatness, he's learning.

Offline nicname

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 16971
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #635 on: November 04, 2024, 12:20:57 PM »
Jake Waters in 2013 is a pretty good comparison as well. Shouldn’t have left him out.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jake-waters-1.html

Man, Freeman was trash
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline nicname

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 16971
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #636 on: November 04, 2024, 12:30:44 PM »
Also, fwiw this year’s offense is averaging ~2.63 ppd

2012 3.12
2023 3.03
2014 2.95
2013 2.90
2022 2.69
2011 2.63
2024 2.63
2010 2.61
2021 2.49
2016 2.49


If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Kid In the Hall

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1435
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #637 on: November 04, 2024, 01:12:48 PM »
Just to add some nerdiness to this silly argument...

Many data dorks will argue that QB rating is a pretty flawed stat because it counts a similar stat twice (completion percentage and yards per attempt). Most sane people would agree that YAA is the more valuable stat of the two. Example - if you throw three passes, complete all three and you gain 6 yards vs. throwing three passes, completing just one, but gaining 15 yards - which is better.

In the modern era, QB rating is HIGHLY inflated due to the short passing games that many teams run.

Why mention this? Well, if you look at the YAA for all of these QBs mentioned, AJ is far down on the list. His QB rating might compare because of his higher completion percentage, but his YAA is very far behind.

Even the Beaser - with his sub 50 completion percentages - had far higher YAA than AJ (averaged 20.1 ypc in 1999 - that's insane!).

Anyhoos - point here is that QB rating can/should be taken with a gain of salt.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 45919
  • big roas man
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #638 on: November 04, 2024, 02:12:06 PM »
I haven't looked up any stats or anything, but Avery seems very much like Will as a soph. Dumb mistakes and flashes of greatness, he's learning.

You mean Junior Will? Will really didn't play very much as a sophomore, Skylar Thompson was the starter, all year. Will had 1 TD pass and 1 interception. Will's best season here was last year and Avery will have slightly better numbers than Will had here last year.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 45919
  • big roas man
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #639 on: November 04, 2024, 02:12:44 PM »
Jake Waters in 2013 is a pretty good comparison as well. Shouldn’t have left him out.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jake-waters-1.html

Man, Freeman was trash

Yeah, I 100% should have included Jake.

Offline Cire

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 20618
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #640 on: November 04, 2024, 02:19:48 PM »
Avery is light years ahead of Howard/Thompson/Ertz/Klein/Roberson at the same point in their careers.  Not even close.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 55905
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #641 on: November 04, 2024, 02:49:53 PM »
Avery is light years ahead of Howard/Thompson/Ertz/Klein/Roberson at the same point in their careers.  Not even close.

and all but Howard had a redshirt year. (maybe Waters didn't have a RS but I'd guess he did)

Offline Kid In the Hall

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1435
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #642 on: November 04, 2024, 03:33:16 PM »
Avery is light years ahead of Howard/Thompson/Ertz/Klein/Roberson at the same point in their careers.  Not even close.

This is true - hopefully, he'll make similar (or better) improvements each year like those cats did

Offline schreds21

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1495
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #643 on: November 04, 2024, 07:05:49 PM »
I can remember several WTF moments with Roberson his soph(?) year.  Avery kind of reminds me of him.  Tons of talent and potential but there will be growing pains.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 45919
  • big roas man
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #644 on: November 04, 2024, 10:58:48 PM »
Avery is light years ahead of Howard/Thompson/Ertz/Klein/Roberson at the same point in their careers.  Not even close.

and all but Howard had a redshirt year. (maybe Waters didn't have a RS but I'd guess he did)

Jake did not have a redshirt, he was a transfer from njcaa national champion Iowa Western

Online wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 32447
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #645 on: November 04, 2024, 11:23:23 PM »
Avery is light years ahead of Howard/Thompson/Ertz/Klein/Roberson at the same point in their careers.  Not even close.

It's not really a fair comparison considering all those guys were 3 star try hards. Need to compare him to Freemaw.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline I_have_purplewood

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3019
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #646 on: November 04, 2024, 11:35:04 PM »
He's one of the best we've ever had.   Did he throw a couple of pics?  Sure he did but that second one shouldn't have even been called.  Run the clock.  We're stuck with a 8-4 or 9-3 coach at best and I'm good with that.
Fifteen minutes later, when the Kansas locker room opened its doors to the media, the Jayhawks were still crying. Literally, bawling. All of them. I've never seen anything like it, and I've seen devastated college locker rooms -- after losses in the Final Four, the national championship game -- ever

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 45919
  • big roas man
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #647 on: November 05, 2024, 04:04:17 AM »
Avery is light years ahead of Howard/Thompson/Ertz/Klein/Roberson at the same point in their careers.  Not even close.

It's not really a fair comparison considering all those guys were 3 star try hards. Need to compare him to Freemaw.

We did, Avery is miles better. Looking back in retrospect, Josh wasn't even very good at being a looter in a riot. He put up big passing yard numbers but his yards per attempt and yards per catch numbers were just okay.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 7825
  • 1cat
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #648 on: November 05, 2024, 08:32:00 AM »
All Avery really needs are a couple of big wide receivers that can't be pushed around with hand checks. He has the ability to get the ball where they can go up and get it

Offline CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38018
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: what if avery johnston is a complete badass??
« Reply #649 on: November 05, 2024, 08:47:22 AM »
All Avery really needs are a couple of big wide receivers that can't be pushed around with hand checks. He has the ability to get the ball where they can go up and get it

I would really like this paired with him throwing the ball to Dylan 2' higher than he currently does.