Author Topic: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates  (Read 75955 times)

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Offline sys

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2150 on: January 24, 2021, 09:23:59 PM »
Mine? Thought it was fairly obvious and plainly stated. It's stupid to associate anarchists with any part of the political left, because they are by definition apolitical. The far political left doesn't want government abolished, in fact they/we/whomever the far political left is want the opposite of abolishing government.

Same thing with attempts to the fascists to the political right. Fascists don't believe in government, the far political right, at least they used to believe in a limited government role, but still want a government, fascists don't.

read the portland article trim posted - they are clearly and unambiguously allied with the far left regardless of the coherence of ideologies.  it is afactual to assert otherwise.

and as i thought i had made clear, that's the point.
"a lot of political rhetoric is picking a slice of "elites" and positioning yourselves against them."

Offline Trim

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2151 on: January 24, 2021, 09:33:16 PM »
At least here, there's been a lot of co-opting of straightforward BLM protests by socialists with some sprinkling of lol hot topic kids getting stuff out of their systems.  It puts legit BLM organizers in a bad spot because on one hand, yes it's good to have lots of people to make for a bigger presence, but on the other hand the message gets switched to "this is all capitalism's fault" with a sprinkling of "breaking glass is cool."  And all with people trying to get political capital out of it.

I haven't seen any true anarchists.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2152 on: January 24, 2021, 09:46:26 PM »
Mine? Thought it was fairly obvious and plainly stated. It's stupid to associate anarchists with any part of the political left, because they are by definition apolitical. The far political left doesn't want government abolished, in fact they/we/whomever the far political left is want the opposite of abolishing government.

Same thing with attempts to the fascists to the political right. Fascists don't believe in government, the far political right, at least they used to believe in a limited government role, but still want a government, fascists don't.

read the portland article trim posted - they are clearly and unambiguously allied with the far left regardless of the coherence of ideologies.  it is afactual to assert otherwise.

and as i thought i had made clear, that's the point.

I clearly read the article, as evidenced by me quoting it.
This statement
Quote
unambiguously allied with the far left regardless of the coherence of ideologies

Is hoe babble as well. I'm not going to waste not another word trying to convince someone that anarchists are aligned with people who want to use government for racial and economic equity. You want to suspend belief of what anarchism is to prove some dipshit point to like 7 people, be my guest.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2153 on: January 24, 2021, 09:55:08 PM »
At least here, there's been a lot of co-opting of straightforward BLM protests by socialists with some sprinkling of lol hot topic kids getting stuff out of their systems.  It puts legit BLM organizers in a bad spot because on one hand, yes it's good to have lots of people to make for a bigger presence, but on the other hand the message gets switched to "this is all capitalism's fault" with a sprinkling of "breaking glass is cool."  And all with people trying to get political capital out of it.

I haven't seen any true anarchists.

Yes, they are co-opting BLM protests, and as was made clear in the article BLM has several times told them to get mumped. If they actually believed in the causes that BLM protests for, they would listen and fall in line, the message that BLM is trying to convey is clearly unimportant to these people.

As for whether they are anarchists or not, with what's happened in Portland the last week, if they are marching with anarchy symbols and painting anarchy symbols on everything I'm going to take them at their word. No idea if this is also happening in Seattle. Whether or not they want to be politically affiliated or not, nothing says lunatic fringe than the fact that we're only talking about dozens of people in either one or two regionalized cities, this crap isn't happening anywhere else. I'm amazed that we've wasted so much time talking about it.

Offline dal9

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2154 on: January 24, 2021, 10:04:17 PM »
"jean v. paris" remains a bit of mystery

A nom de plume, methinks

or more like nom de guerre...

Offline sys

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2155 on: January 24, 2021, 10:10:04 PM »
I'm not going to waste not another word trying to convince someone that anarchists are aligned with people who want to use government for racial and economic equity. You want to suspend belief of what anarchism is to prove some dipshit point to like 7 people, be my guest.

they're marching in protests together, mir.  so they pretty clearly don't attach as much importance to which quadrant they fall in on a two-factor ideological test as you do.
"a lot of political rhetoric is picking a slice of "elites" and positioning yourselves against them."

Offline Trim

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2156 on: January 24, 2021, 10:13:36 PM »
I'm sure when I was in middle school, I drew anarchy symbols on my notebooks along with logos of bands I liked.  I probably even did a cross-stitch of one during the home ec sewing class they made us take for half a quarter.

Those kids will grow out of it and become socialists or magas or most likely something in between.

And yeah, I think the line's been crossed by socialist co-opt'rs here.  The socialist city councilmember is up for recall and I think a lot of her stunts like that she pulled after re-election might swing things against her.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2157 on: January 24, 2021, 10:53:31 PM »
Yeah I was big into the anarchy symbol in high school lol
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2158 on: January 25, 2021, 12:52:14 AM »

Offline DQ12

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2159 on: January 25, 2021, 10:43:00 AM »
Who made this argument? Kat Kad didn't, rusty didn't, I didn't, I'm certain that isn't the point dal9 was making.

then what were your points?

Mine? Thought it was fairly obvious and plainly stated. It's stupid to associate anarchists with any part of the political left, because they are by definition apolitical. The far political left doesn't want government abolished, in fact they/we/whomever the far political left is want the opposite of abolishing government.

Same thing with attempts to the fascists to the political right. Fascists don't believe in government, the far political right, at least they used to believe in a limited government role, but still want a government, fascists don't.
Again, we're running into the problem with the singular right/left paradigm, but I think fascists believe in government as much more or more than any other ideology believes in government.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline cfbandyman

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2160 on: January 25, 2021, 10:52:58 AM »
Who made this argument? Kat Kad didn't, rusty didn't, I didn't, I'm certain that isn't the point dal9 was making.

then what were your points?

Mine? Thought it was fairly obvious and plainly stated. It's stupid to associate anarchists with any part of the political left, because they are by definition apolitical. The far political left doesn't want government abolished, in fact they/we/whomever the far political left is want the opposite of abolishing government.

Same thing with attempts to the fascists to the political right. Fascists don't believe in government, the far political right, at least they used to believe in a limited government role, but still want a government, fascists don't.
Again, we're running into the problem with the singular right/left paradigm, but I think fascists believe in government as much more or more than any other ideology believes in government.

given the name comes from fasces, which represented a consuls authority in ancient Rome, you bet their ass they believe in government, just a very specific version of it.

This is not specific to mir or dq, but if you want to know what a fasces is, there are two of them helpfully on the US Senate seal

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2161 on: January 25, 2021, 11:20:02 AM »
If your government includes an ultimate authority that can over ride the government whenever they want, do you really have a government?
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2162 on: January 25, 2021, 11:32:47 AM »
Who made this argument? Kat Kad didn't, rusty didn't, I didn't, I'm certain that isn't the point dal9 was making.

then what were your points?

Mine? Thought it was fairly obvious and plainly stated. It's stupid to associate anarchists with any part of the political left, because they are by definition apolitical. The far political left doesn't want government abolished, in fact they/we/whomever the far political left is want the opposite of abolishing government.

Same thing with attempts to the fascists to the political right. Fascists don't believe in government, the far political right, at least they used to believe in a limited government role, but still want a government, fascists don't.
Again, we're running into the problem with the singular right/left paradigm, but I think fascists believe in government as much more or more than any other ideology believes in government.

Two different times in this thread I made the distinction of our form of government, I don't want to keep having to type that disclaimer in, at some point we should all give each other credit for knowing that fascism favors authoritarians and dictatorial power and that isn't how our government works, so no fascists do not represent the American political right. I'm sure there are a few thousand trump supporters who wouldn't mind trump being a dictator but the point of all of this is that it's wrong to associate extremists with people who fundamentally believe in a democracy.

As far as I can tell everyone but sys agrees with this, yet here we are in a "well actually" off.

Offline DQ12

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2163 on: January 25, 2021, 12:32:33 PM »
Who made this argument? Kat Kad didn't, rusty didn't, I didn't, I'm certain that isn't the point dal9 was making.

then what were your points?

Mine? Thought it was fairly obvious and plainly stated. It's stupid to associate anarchists with any part of the political left, because they are by definition apolitical. The far political left doesn't want government abolished, in fact they/we/whomever the far political left is want the opposite of abolishing government.

Same thing with attempts to the fascists to the political right. Fascists don't believe in government, the far political right, at least they used to believe in a limited government role, but still want a government, fascists don't.
Again, we're running into the problem with the singular right/left paradigm, but I think fascists believe in government as much more or more than any other ideology believes in government.

Two different times in this thread I made the distinction of our form of government, I don't want to keep having to type that disclaimer in, at some point we should all give each other credit for knowing that fascism favors authoritarians and dictatorial power and that isn't how our government works, so no fascists do not represent the American political right. I'm sure there are a few thousand trump supporters who wouldn't mind trump being a dictator but the point of all of this is that it's wrong to associate extremists with people who fundamentally believe in a democracy.

As far as I can tell everyone but sys agrees with this, yet here we are in a "well actually" off.
I missed those qualifiers and am not trying to be combative or argue with you or well actually you or anything. 

Your original post brought up an interesting point about where anarchists/fascists would fall on the left/right paradigm discussion.


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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2164 on: January 25, 2021, 10:49:55 PM »
 :love: :love: :love:

Offline chum1

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2165 on: January 28, 2021, 01:51:16 PM »

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2166 on: January 28, 2021, 02:21:10 PM »
Until revoked, congratulations to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez-Goebbels you are the official public relations face of #blueanon

For continuing to propagate and speak to insane conspiracy theories


Offline sys

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2167 on: January 28, 2021, 07:35:06 PM »
"a lot of political rhetoric is picking a slice of "elites" and positioning yourselves against them."

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2168 on: January 28, 2021, 10:45:06 PM »
Until revoked, congratulations to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez-Goebbels you are the official public relations face of #blueanon

For continuing to propagate and speak to insane conspiracy theories


Offline sonofdaxjones

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The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2169 on: January 29, 2021, 07:47:55 AM »
The only person #triggered is you . . . as usual.

She's a complete whack-a-doo, so it's no wonder you feel a kinship with her.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 07:14:23 AM by sonofdaxjones »

Offline chum1

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2170 on: February 08, 2021, 08:51:36 PM »
Wow. Cool.


Offline chum1

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2171 on: February 09, 2021, 10:53:36 AM »

Offline memphis

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2172 on: February 18, 2021, 02:32:07 PM »
Wonder how this take will age with Biden/this Congress re any expansion of the social safety net, min wage, ect. Then again I don't think anything that can get done is in the range of "acceptable to praise category" (for the readership), which is maybe their point.

https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/the-politics-of-a-second-gilded-age

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2173 on: February 18, 2021, 03:38:18 PM »
She should fly to Cancun right now and make a big deal of it.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates
« Reply #2174 on: February 19, 2021, 01:05:14 PM »
Raised $2mm for Texas instead