Author Topic: The Biden (interim) Dictator  (Read 303361 times)

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Offline sys

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1300 on: March 06, 2021, 04:46:34 PM »
presidents that get stuff done that they ran on are surely in better shape than ones that can’t deliver.

do you have any empirical evidence of that?  in states, governors that don't do anything tend to be popular and governors that push for dramatic changes tend to not be (brownback in ks, shumlin in vt, as examples).
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1301 on: March 06, 2021, 04:47:36 PM »
I think the most popular reservation about Bernie is that he actually might get one of his ideas passed.
most people like his stuff!

 :rolleyes:
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1302 on: March 06, 2021, 05:39:23 PM »
presidents that get stuff done that they ran on are surely in better shape than ones that can’t deliver.

do you have any empirical evidence of that?  in states, governors that don't do anything tend to be popular and governors that push for dramatic changes tend to not be (brownback in ks, shumlin in vt, as examples).
I would say that 3 of the last 4 2 term presidents have a pretty strong track record of achieving their policy objectives. 

Trump got his tax cuts, but famously failed at repealing Obamacare or “the wall”

I’m less familiar with the specifics of Bush’s presidency, but it is widely believed that his failure to keep his campaign promise to not raise taxes was his undoing.

Maybe Clinton the most obvious exception with a failure to get health care reform done.

Offline sys

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1303 on: March 06, 2021, 05:48:52 PM »
presidents that get stuff done that they ran on are surely in better shape than ones that can’t deliver.

do you have any empirical evidence of that?  in states, governors that don't do anything tend to be popular and governors that push for dramatic changes tend to not be (brownback in ks, shumlin in vt, as examples).

been thinking about this a little.  i think "that getting stuff done was unpopular" definitely holds true for trump (immigrant mistreatment, wall, tax cut) and obama (great recession stimulus, obamacare).  bush jr maybe a little different since his presidency was dominated by a random externality (but certainly his response was ultimately unpopular and not mandated by the event) and also my memory starts to get pretty fuzzy pre-2008.  ss privatization was toxic, i think,  medicare pt d probably wasn't?  did he do anything else big?

before that i really don't have much memory that i trust.  going way back to probably irrelevant eras - fdr obviously did a bunch of crap and was popular, but he also started out with like 70% of the country.  lbj did a bunch of crap and was so mumped for it that he didn't run for reelection.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1305 on: March 06, 2021, 05:53:42 PM »
LBJ did a bunch of crap?  You mean fully immerse the US in a war that killed 51,000 Americans

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1306 on: March 06, 2021, 05:54:08 PM »
presidents that get stuff done that they ran on are surely in better shape than ones that can’t deliver.

do you have any empirical evidence of that?  in states, governors that don't do anything tend to be popular and governors that push for dramatic changes tend to not be (brownback in ks, shumlin in vt, as examples).

been thinking about this a little.  i think "that getting stuff done was unpopular" definitely holds true for trump (immigrant mistreatment, wall, tax cut) and obama (great recession stimulus, obamacare).  bush jr maybe a little different since his presidency was dominated by a random externality (but certainly his response was ultimately unpopular and not mandated by the event) and also my memory starts to get pretty fuzzy pre-2008.  ss privatization was toxic, i think,  medicare pt d probably wasn't?  did he do anything else big?

before that i really don't have much memory that i trust.  going way back to probably irrelevant eras - fdr obviously did a bunch of crap and was popular, but he also started out with like 70% of the country.  lbj did a bunch of crap and was so mumped for it that he didn't run for reelection.
Bush did big tax cuts, No Child Left Behind (which was a big deal because he got Ted Kennedy on board for a big happy bipartisan Bill) and Medicare Part D which were all pretty big deals.

He didn’t get social security reform which everyone hated but that was second term.


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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1307 on: March 06, 2021, 05:56:23 PM »
presidents that get stuff done that they ran on are surely in better shape than ones that can’t deliver.

do you have any empirical evidence of that?  in states, governors that don't do anything tend to be popular and governors that push for dramatic changes tend to not be (brownback in ks, shumlin in vt, as examples).

been thinking about this a little.  i think "that getting stuff done was unpopular" definitely holds true for trump (immigrant mistreatment, wall, tax cut) and obama (great recession stimulus, obamacare).  bush jr maybe a little different since his presidency was dominated by a random externality (but certainly his response was ultimately unpopular and not mandated by the event) and also my memory starts to get pretty fuzzy pre-2008.  ss privatization was toxic, i think,  medicare pt d probably wasn't?  did he do anything else big?

before that i really don't have much memory that i trust.  going way back to probably irrelevant eras - fdr obviously did a bunch of crap and was popular, but he also started out with like 70% of the country.  lbj did a bunch of crap and was so mumped for it that he didn't run for reelection.
LBJ certainly didn’t make any friends in Texas with the civil rights legislation, but Vietnam was what killed him. You have a very idiosyncratic view here that presidents that accomplish their agendas pay a political price.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1308 on: March 06, 2021, 05:57:36 PM »
presidents that get stuff done that they ran on are surely in better shape than ones that can’t deliver.

do you have any empirical evidence of that?  in states, governors that don't do anything tend to be popular and governors that push for dramatic changes tend to not be (brownback in ks, shumlin in vt, as examples).

been thinking about this a little.  i think "that getting stuff done was unpopular" definitely holds true for trump (immigrant mistreatment, wall, tax cut) and obama (great recession stimulus, obamacare).  bush jr maybe a little different since his presidency was dominated by a random externality (but certainly his response was ultimately unpopular and not mandated by the event) and also my memory starts to get pretty fuzzy pre-2008.  ss privatization was toxic, i think,  medicare pt d probably wasn't?  did he do anything else big?

before that i really don't have much memory that i trust.  going way back to probably irrelevant eras - fdr obviously did a bunch of crap and was popular, but he also started out with like 70% of the country.  lbj did a bunch of crap and was so mumped for it that he didn't run for reelection.
Who thinks trump got the wall done? Maybe trump and you? Not sure even trump thinks that.

Offline sys

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1309 on: March 06, 2021, 06:05:56 PM »
Who thinks trump got the wall done? Maybe trump and you? Not sure even trump thinks that.

he built more than 450 miles of 30 foot tall steel bollard fencing that will almost certainly stand there for the indefinite future.  anyone that doesn't see that as a building a wall on the southern border has their head in the sand.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1310 on: March 06, 2021, 06:09:19 PM »
Bush did big tax cuts, No Child Left Behind (which was a big deal because he got Ted Kennedy on board for a big happy bipartisan Bill) and Medicare Part D which were all pretty big deals.

He didn’t get social security reform which everyone hated but that was second term.

so those were probably not unpopular during his presidency?

you're right, i shouldn't include ss privatization since it didn't get done.  falls into a different category like trump's attempt to kill obamacare of trying to do something unpopular and failing and probably getting dinged a little both for trying and for failing.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1311 on: March 06, 2021, 06:13:54 PM »
You have a very idiosyncratic view here that presidents that accomplish their agendas pay a political price.

i don't think it's that idiosyncratic.  maybe not quite conventional wisdom but i think it is fairly commonly understand that voters tend to dislike change and that voters tend to be more motivated by the opposition party doing something they dislike than to reward politicians of the party they support.

doesn't mean politicians shouldn't try to do stuff, but i do think they (or the people observing and commenting on politics) should be more honest about the likely result being at least a short-term hit in popularity.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1312 on: March 06, 2021, 06:42:24 PM »
Who thinks trump got the wall done? Maybe trump and you? Not sure even trump thinks that.

he built more than 450 miles of 30 foot tall steel bollard fencing that will almost certainly stand there for the indefinite future.  anyone that doesn't see that as a building a wall on the southern border has their head in the sand.
Is that what most people thought they were signing up for when he said “we’re going to build the wall and make Mexico pay for it!” On the campaign trail? I don’t know.  I think your interest in the issue skews your perception here.

Is there any polling on how many people think he built the wall? I really don’t think even Trump went on any sort of victory lap, he seemed mostly frustrated by the lack of progress.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1313 on: March 06, 2021, 06:49:56 PM »
But what Mr Trump has actually built is far from what he promised at the start of his 2016 election campaign, when he pledged to build a concrete wall along the border's entire 2,000-mile length.

He later clarified that it would cover only half of that. And by the time of his State of the Union address in February this year, his pledge had been reduced to "substantially more than 500 miles" by January 2021.
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Offline wetwillie

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1314 on: March 06, 2021, 06:51:36 PM »
My understanding is only 15 miles of border wall got added and 350 miles of existing structure got repaired or upgraded.
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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1315 on: March 06, 2021, 06:56:54 PM »
My understanding is only 15 miles of border wall got added and 350 miles of existing structure got repaired or upgraded.

your understanding is 1) incorrect and more importantly 2) calling a change from a vehicle barrier (in some cases, may have still been original barbed wire ranch fencing, in all cases permeable to wildlife and human foot traffic) to a 30 foot tall wall "an upgrade" is laughable.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline wetwillie

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1316 on: March 06, 2021, 07:06:05 PM »
My understanding is only 15 miles of border wall got added and 350 miles of existing structure got repaired or upgraded.

your understanding is 1) incorrect and more importantly 2) calling a change from a vehicle barrier (in some cases, may have still been original barbed wire ranch fencing, in all cases permeable to wildlife and human foot traffic) to a 30 foot tall wall "an upgrade" is laughable.

He promised to build a wall along the entirety of the 2000 miles of border and got about 25%.  It was obviously never feasible in the first place but neither he nor the people who voted for him really cared enough for it to matter.   
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Online chum1

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1317 on: March 06, 2021, 07:17:51 PM »
What actually happened seemingly isn't as relevant here as what people believe happened. And what people believe happened may not even be all that relevant anyway.

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1318 on: March 06, 2021, 08:54:58 PM »
He promised to build a wall along the entirety of the 2000 miles of border and got about 25%.

well large parts of it were already walled off and good chunks of what still isn't is in the big bend and is pretty much impassible terrain so the border is pretty damn walled up.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1319 on: March 07, 2021, 10:25:02 AM »
Absolutely no political headwinds against the wall. Tho. 

Offline LickNeckey

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1320 on: March 07, 2021, 11:29:34 AM »
Let's just all agree that the wall is built so we can move on to other things

Offline wetwillie

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1321 on: March 07, 2021, 11:37:40 AM »
Yes this thread is for the current dictator
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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1322 on: March 07, 2021, 11:45:43 AM »
Yes this thread is for the current (interim) dictator

Offline wetwillie

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1323 on: March 07, 2021, 11:49:23 AM »
Yes this thread is for the current (interim) dictator

If I’m being honest I’m not sure Kamala isn’t sitting at the resolute desk right now
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1324 on: March 08, 2021, 07:38:04 AM »
Good news resident perpetual war loving ProgFascists.  iPOTUS Joe’s handlers may get you that war with Russia just yet.

https://twitter.com/kevorkalmassian/status/1368323468878618630?s=21