Author Topic: The riot to reform police thread  (Read 108360 times)

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Offline nicname

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If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline sys

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #801 on: June 03, 2020, 10:48:17 PM »
So you don’t think charging/prosecuting them for wrongdoing will help?  Surely u cannot be serious.

go build your strawman with someone else.  i don't have any interest in playing with you.
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Offline kim carnes

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Offline kim carnes

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #803 on: June 03, 2020, 10:56:20 PM »
So you don’t think charging/prosecuting them for wrongdoing will help?  Surely u cannot be serious.

go build your strawman with someone else.  i don't have any interest in playing with you.

I’m not rly sure where you’re going with this.  I for one think prosecuting wrongdoing (not just murder) would help, a lot.

Offline cfbandyman

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #804 on: June 03, 2020, 11:14:41 PM »
Hell yeah Lego

https://twitter.com/APZonerunner/status/1268273434540290049?s=19

Proud owner of legos before this and Anna Kendrick admitting she loves them so this makes me even happier. I kinda hope I get to see some lego smashing a la keurigs and crap from those dumbasses. Legos ain't cheap.
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Offline cfbandyman

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #805 on: June 03, 2020, 11:26:11 PM »
the idea that we aren't going to be able to hire any new police if we fire some of the current ones is laughably stupid.

Very much so. First of all reforms would absolutely attract more minority cops. There's also no reason police departments shouldn't be competing with the armed forces for their best talent.

What reforms?  Shouldn't anybody who wants to make a change want to jump into the PD 30 years ago to help make change?

I'm guessing/hoping you aren't asking me about some rando beat cop or some rando chief making systematic changes to generations of flawed policing in the entire country. That's either really stupid or asked in bad faith.

I'm only asking what reforms you think would attract more minority cops. bolded above.

On the short term, there isn't much that will make any significant impact. The greatest reason that there aren't minority cops is goes all the way back before the country was ever founded, I'd hope you know that. We live in highly segregated areas but have never been allowed to police in the same way. You're not going to overturn hundreds of years of distrust in a matter of months or even years. My mother's generation had to be subjected to cops being the front line in the government pushing back in a battle for civil rights. It's obviously going to be a long and hard transformation, but it has to start somewhere. Here's what I'd do.

1. I would only hire officers that live in my city, especially in metro areas.
2. Police need hiring quotas to assist in representation
3. I balk at busting police unions, but they have been a strong barrier to community policing and representation in police departments.
4. Police departments should invest in education in our cities and not just by putting substations in black neighborhoods. Invest in scholarships, have more programs in small colleges, and not just some community colleges.
5. Partner with secondary schools to have plain clothed officers assist in educational programs. There is a national organization called Jobs for America's Graduates who would be perfect to partner with.
6. Have a presence, plain clothed, no guns, in community events. Host some of these events, block parties, farmers markets in food deserts.

There is literally a eff ton of things they can do if they actually wanted to do so.

I think, hand-in-hand with #6, police should have to walk a beat - with the emphasis on physically walking. They should have to get out of their cars on patrol, so you can see their faces and they are actually out in the community. Talk to kids shooting hoops in the park, stop in and chat with the local business owners, help old ladies cross the road and help carry their groceries, etc. How can you effectively protect and serve people that you don't talk to and don't care about?

This is so common sense they should be doing this (Mir list too). Even to a big degree in white ass Overland Park most cop interactions are distant and walled off. They always look intimidating and armed to the teeth. If they can just actually meld into the community, come by dressed down, it would take a lot of tension off interactions with them.

Some what related side note (and definitely not trying to make an excuse for them) but you could see a lot of rural/small town America not being able to fathom not knowing your local law enforcement. Anecdotal, but many of my small town K-State friends talk about raising hell in their small town, and then being talked to by the sheriff/local cop, but it not really going too far cause they all knew each other (you could call it privilege, but I think just as well you could call it hey, I know you, this is a learning moment). But project that to a big(ger) city, cops seem distant, foreign entity sequestered in their patrol car and even outside of it they are surrounded by a bullet proof vest, taser, gun, mace, and a myriad other gadgets that make them visually separate from the population at large.
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Offline michigancat

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #806 on: June 03, 2020, 11:38:11 PM »
A more nuanced thread about "abolish the police" and "cops shouldn't have guns"

https://twitter.com/placeholder4abn/status/1268045873432281088

Offline michigancat

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #807 on: June 03, 2020, 11:46:35 PM »
Kinda think cops shouldn't have batons either

https://twitter.com/joshfoxfilm/status/1268366550475603969

Offline kim carnes

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #808 on: June 03, 2020, 11:49:45 PM »
A more nuanced thread about "abolish the police" and "cops shouldn't have guns"

https://twitter.com/placeholder4abn/status/1268045873432281088

You’re really onto something there. 

Offline sys

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #809 on: June 03, 2020, 11:56:22 PM »
i think "abolish the police" is probably not the framing best designed to gain support for reforming the police in favor of greater specialization.


i do agree with you and the thread author that there should be cops with guns and cops without guns, or at least cops whose guns are not carried on their person.  i think it is more important; however, to have cops just spend a lot less time stopping people to check their papers, ask what they're doing, do a little exploratory searching and such than it is to take the guns away from people doing that.  the constant harassment of people not-pursuant to the investigation of any reported crime is really the bedrock of what is wrong with american law-enforcement.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Online MakeItRain

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #810 on: June 04, 2020, 12:10:25 AM »
So a great way of getting quality cops is to make the profession seems bad and not kid friendly.  Should help with community relations too.

We've had respectful dialogue on this, but I gotta ask, what's your angle here? It seems to me, that anything short of unlimited reverence is unacceptable to you.

Not at all where I was going with that.  I don't think Legos discontinuing police themed legos or stopping making cop halloween costumes, etc, etc. is going to benefit anybody and is just a publicity ploy.

If we want high quality people to become cops (that isn't happening now) making them to be the boggieman isn't the answer.  I totally understand they are making themselves the boogieman much more effective for the past decades.  Somehow we have to make it a respected profession again or we'll just keep getting dickwads who want absolute power.

Hos the police are perceived is 100% their doing, there is little anyone who isn't a cop, pol, or DA can do other than shame them, and they deserved to be shamed. Want the shaming of cops to stop? Start taking steps to not make it such a shameful profession. They should get no benefit of the doubt.

What Lego did, with pulling the toys, is wholly symbolic, it's not going to change anything. I will tell you that the shame some feel and the support others feel make it worth it. I wouldn't care if they put the cop products back on the shelves tomorrow, they accomplished what they set out to do.

Offline michigancat

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #811 on: June 04, 2020, 12:11:08 AM »


i think "abolish the police" is probably not the framing best designed to gain support for reforming the police in favor of greater specialization.


i do agree with you and the thread author that there should be cops with guns and cops without guns, or at least cops whose guns are not carried on their person.  i think it is more important; however, to have cops just spend a lot less time stopping people to check their papers, ask what they're doing, do a little exploratory searching and such than it is to take the guns away from people doing that.  the constant harassment of people not-pursuant to the investigation of any reported crime is really the bedrock of what is wrong with american law-enforcement.

I don't think there is a single magic bullet to fixing such a complex set of problems but I support what you describe. I think we could have fewer cops, fewer harassments, and fewer guns all at once!

Online MakeItRain

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #812 on: June 04, 2020, 12:29:05 AM »
People are really fixated on police in this thread and in protests when I feel most of the vitriol should be directed at those in charge of prosecuting them and those who can influence prosecutors (i.e. mayors, governors etc). They are the enablers.  Police killed 19 unarmed white ppl in 2019 versus 9 black people, the issue is that we’re not prosecuting them at the same rate (I assume, don’t have the numbers).  Idk if these numbers include off duty officers like the dumbass Dallas lady cop that shot a man in his own home.

I've mentioned districts attorney several times in this thread and the forget Missouri cops thread. Prosecuting will absolutely help, but it isn't going to fix anything. The reason that prosecution rates are so low is because the DAs need the help of police to do their jobs and they are rightly afraid of retribution if they keep charging cops for beating people's ass, stealing people's crap, maliciously charging people, and of course killing people. If we're looking to clean up cops, it starts with mayors and city councils, they are the ones who employ the cops. The protesters now going to these mayors houses have the right idea. The cities these cops work for have to approve all the acquisition of the military grade equipment. The cities hire and fire the cops.

As I've said before it's astounding that the chiefs in New York and LA haven't been fired. De blasio hasn't fired his chief yet because he won't get reelected if he does, he's banking on blue lives matter having a longer memory than his citizens who oppose the constant abuses by his department. Eric Garcetti hasn't fired the chief because the police have been in his families life for the entirety of it.

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Online catastrophe

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The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #814 on: June 04, 2020, 07:02:27 AM »
People are really fixated on police in this thread and in protests when I feel most of the vitriol should be directed at those in charge of prosecuting them and those who can influence prosecutors (i.e. mayors, governors etc). They are the enablers.  Police killed 19 unarmed white ppl in 2019 versus 9 black people, the issue is that we’re not prosecuting them at the same rate (I assume, don’t have the numbers).  Idk if these numbers include off duty officers like the dumbass Dallas lady cop that shot a man in his own home.

I've mentioned districts attorney several times in this thread and the forget Missouri cops thread. Prosecuting will absolutely help, but it isn't going to fix anything. The reason that prosecution rates are so low is because the DAs need the help of police to do their jobs and they are rightly afraid of retribution if they keep charging cops for beating people's ass, stealing people's crap, maliciously charging people, and of course killing people. If we're looking to clean up cops, it starts with mayors and city councils, they are the ones who employ the cops. The protesters now going to these mayors houses have the right idea. The cities these cops work for have to approve all the acquisition of the military grade equipment. The cities hire and fire the cops.

As I've said before it's astounding that the chiefs in New York and LA haven't been fired. De blasio hasn't fired his chief yet because he won't get reelected if he does, he's banking on blue lives matter having a longer memory than his citizens who oppose the constant abuses by his department. Eric Garcetti hasn't fired the chief because the police have been in his families life for the entirety of it.
Yeah that seems like two sides of the same coin to me. The protests are obviously directed to more than just police themselves, and it’s obvious to anyone who thinks about it for a few seconds that change has to come from above.

It’s basically what I said earlier. The protests have certainly been successful at getting attention. If they’re going to actually accomplish their goal it’s mainly because people are going to start looking at their local officials and asking what their DA, mayor, etc. is doing to actually keep their community safe. (Could also be if the Supreme Court reconsiders doctrines protecting cops, which is starting to be rumored)

I think by now it’s pretty commonplace for DA candidates to get asked about their stance on prosecuting low level drug offenses, but “what are you doing to improve policing and community relations” should definitely be a major focus.

“Replace all cops” is a fantasy—and a bad one at that. I think that pretty much all jobs are the same, you’ve got some great people, some shitty people, and some people who mainly just want to collect a paycheck. That third category is always the biggest. If you sincerely focus on getting rid of the shitty cops and raise the standards, the remaining cops will do just fine.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 07:07:19 AM by catastrophe »

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #815 on: June 04, 2020, 08:46:01 AM »
So a great way of getting quality cops is to make the profession seems bad and not kid friendly.  Should help with community relations too.

We've had respectful dialogue on this, but I gotta ask, what's your angle here? It seems to me, that anything short of unlimited reverence is unacceptable to you.

Not at all where I was going with that.  I don't think Legos discontinuing police themed legos or stopping making cop halloween costumes, etc, etc. is going to benefit anybody and is just a publicity ploy.

If we want high quality people to become cops (that isn't happening now) making them to be the boggieman isn't the answer.  I totally understand they are making themselves the boogieman much more effective for the past decades.  Somehow we have to make it a respected profession again or we'll just keep getting dickwads who want absolute power.

Hos the police are perceived is 100% their doing, there is little anyone who isn't a cop, pol, or DA can do other than shame them, and they deserved to be shamed. Want the shaming of cops to stop? Start taking steps to not make it such a shameful profession. They should get no benefit of the doubt.

What Lego did, with pulling the toys, is wholly symbolic, it's not going to change anything. I will tell you that the shame some feel and the support others feel make it worth it. I wouldn't care if they put the cop products back on the shelves tomorrow, they accomplished what they set out to do.

Good point.  Not having kids I have no idea but I assume right now parents teach their kids to "respect the police" not because it's the right thing to do, it's so they don't get into more trouble/beat/death.  That is effed up and totally the doing of those in the uniforms.  No way 99% of the rational people growing up being taught that want to go in and be a cop so the cycle continues to spiral downward. 

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #816 on: June 04, 2020, 09:21:30 AM »

Offline 8manpick

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #817 on: June 04, 2020, 09:35:57 AM »
Heard some juicy rumors about buses of antifa loading up in Dallas and Wichita to head to the Garden City protest yesterday.  Such a high sense of self importance by these Western Kansas folks.
:adios:

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #818 on: June 04, 2020, 12:01:40 PM »
https://twitter.com/joshfoxfilm/status/1268366550475603969

Based on the protest videos, it seems like NYPD faces the most challenges with bad person thug cops. Many, MANY challenges. Maybe LAPD is a distant second. And that totally squares with my prior knowledge of both.

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #820 on: June 04, 2020, 12:30:11 PM »
I wouldn't have had a problem if one of them put their gear down and beat that dudes ass. These are human beings and no one wants some rough ridin' rando yelling in their face.

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #821 on: June 04, 2020, 01:02:19 PM »
I wouldn't have had a problem if one of them put their gear down and beat that dudes ass.

well i would have

Offline Institutional Control

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #822 on: June 04, 2020, 02:44:20 PM »
Heard some juicy rumors about buses of antifa loading up in Dallas and Wichita to head to the Garden City protest yesterday.  Such a high sense of self importance by these Western Kansas folks.

The crazy part is I heard Antifa was being brought into Dallas from New Orleans. 

I wonder if Garden City got the Dallas Antifa chapter or if the New Orleans members just headed up to GC after Dallas was sufficiently looted. 

Offline michigancat

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #823 on: June 04, 2020, 02:51:23 PM »
Heard some juicy rumors about buses of antifa loading up in Dallas and Wichita to head to the Garden City protest yesterday.  Such a high sense of self importance by these Western Kansas folks.

The crazy part is I heard Antifa was being brought into Dallas from New Orleans. 

I wonder if Garden City got the Dallas Antifa chapter or if the New Orleans members just headed up to GC after Dallas was sufficiently looted.
Sounds like this terrorist organization needs to take logistics 101

Online Dugout DickStone

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Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #824 on: June 04, 2020, 03:22:31 PM »
Heard some juicy rumors about buses of antifa loading up in Dallas and Wichita to head to the Garden City protest yesterday.  Such a high sense of self importance by these Western Kansas folks.

The crazy part is I heard Antifa was being brought into Dallas from New Orleans. 

I wonder if Garden City got the Dallas Antifa chapter or if the New Orleans members just headed up to GC after Dallas was sufficiently looted.
Sounds like this terrorist organization needs to take logistics 101

Soros is just showing off at this point.  like "hey George, wouldn't it be smarter to take the 60 buses we had routed to Notre Dame Indiana and instead send them to Garden City?

GS:  I am so rich, I will dispatch the Dallas af chapter to GC and STILL SEND THE NEW ORLEANS CHAPTER TO DALLAS BECAUSE mOneTarY gOon muhhhahhahahha