Author Topic: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread  (Read 1050140 times)

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Offline Trim

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12275 on: December 01, 2020, 05:12:41 PM »
The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.

I hope lots of discovery is done on the walking infections that are being prevented from pak'n in a hockey bar between 10pm and 3am when the sport that the bar is dedicated to has completely shut down itself.

Now if the bar is a place dedicated to people who work 1pm-ish to 11pm-ish shifts and it's critical they have a place to settle in at for some bar food and booze for their uniquely timed dinner, they might be on to something.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12276 on: December 01, 2020, 05:27:49 PM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

View it as that dine-in restaurants and drink-in bars are being allowed to operate at all, up until 10pm.
Exactly.

Do these bars think the city wants to do this? I mean eff guys, we are trying to fight back a pandemic.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12277 on: December 01, 2020, 05:29:02 PM »


Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

Who determined it's a marginal benefit?

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12278 on: December 01, 2020, 05:40:48 PM »
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1333786529001443339

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1333813654458937344

Nate Silver with some interesting data about Thanksgiving travel/gatherings. I kind of struggled to read the graphs with a quick glance, but I think it's saying that there weren't that many people who saw people outside of their tight circle that normally wouldn't.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12279 on: December 01, 2020, 06:24:32 PM »
I do wonder if the lawsuit authority based (they can't do that) or efficacy/fairness based (how a court would rule on that would be interesting).

The story reads like they are fighting the authority since it was signed by the mayor and county executive only. 

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12280 on: December 01, 2020, 07:13:39 PM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

who wants to see a copy of the petition!?

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12281 on: December 01, 2020, 07:23:21 PM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

Following your logic they shouldn’t have to close at 3 am either bc it’s arbitrary

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12282 on: December 01, 2020, 07:29:42 PM »
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1333786529001443339

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1333813654458937344

Nate Silver with some interesting data about Thanksgiving travel/gatherings. I kind of struggled to read the graphs with a quick glance, but I think it's saying that there weren't that many people who saw people outside of their tight circle that normally wouldn't.

journalists/elites!

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12283 on: December 01, 2020, 07:32:12 PM »
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1333786529001443339

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1333813654458937344

Nate Silver with some interesting data about Thanksgiving travel/gatherings. I kind of struggled to read the graphs with a quick glance, but I think it's saying that there weren't that many people who saw people outside of their tight circle that normally wouldn't.

yeah that's interesting. I think what makes it tricky is that many people are likely to interact with different people - for example I know people I work with who hang out with a small group of friends in SF but flew home to Minnesota to be with their family. So like they would have hung out with someone every weekend it's just for Thanksgiving it was with their family in a different region. You were probably also be more likely to have larger groups which is sort of captured with the hosting/traveling separation.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12284 on: December 01, 2020, 08:09:57 PM »
who wants to see a copy of the petition!?

 :adios:

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12285 on: December 01, 2020, 08:14:56 PM »
Quote
The sports bar is owned by Steve Stegall, who became a well known figure in 2018 when his wife was abruptly deported back to Mexico by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents.

Neither Stegall nor his lawyer could be reached on Tuesday afternoon.

Stegall told KCMO-AM’s conservative talk radio host Pete Mundo on Tuesday that he had hoped to get more bars involved in the lawsuit, but none ultimately agreed. He said Kansas City bars are particularly struggling with a 10 p.m. curfew, as bars over in Johnson County are allowed to remain open until midnight. Jackson, Clay and Platte counties in Missouri and Wyandotte County in Kansas also have 10 p.m. curfews.

If nothing else, he would like to see more flexibility from City Hall. He noted that this Sunday’s 10 p.m. closure would mean patrons would have to leave before the end of the Kansas City Chiefs game against the Denver Broncos.

“We’re trying to get our hours extended because this 10 p.m. is really screwing everybody in Missouri,” he said. “Everybody’s going to Kansas. It’s killing everybody. I’ve talked to multiple bar owners. And it’s killing everybody.”

:lol:

Are people traveling to Kansas at 10pm to drink or earlier so they can keep drinking past 10 and then go back to Missouri?

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12287 on: December 01, 2020, 11:26:41 PM »
that silver data is pretty encouraging.  i'm not sure it captures the nature of the interaction with other people, but even so, it's a lot better than i'd have guessed.
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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12288 on: December 02, 2020, 12:10:00 AM »
Quote
The sports bar is owned by Steve Stegall, who became a well known figure in 2018 when his wife was abruptly deported back to Mexico by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents.

Neither Stegall nor his lawyer could be reached on Tuesday afternoon.

Stegall told KCMO-AM’s conservative talk radio host Pete Mundo on Tuesday that he had hoped to get more bars involved in the lawsuit, but none ultimately agreed. He said Kansas City bars are particularly struggling with a 10 p.m. curfew, as bars over in Johnson County are allowed to remain open until midnight. Jackson, Clay and Platte counties in Missouri and Wyandotte County in Kansas also have 10 p.m. curfews.

If nothing else, he would like to see more flexibility from City Hall. He noted that this Sunday’s 10 p.m. closure would mean patrons would have to leave before the end of the Kansas City Chiefs game against the Denver Broncos.

“We’re trying to get our hours extended because this 10 p.m. is really screwing everybody in Missouri,” he said. “Everybody’s going to Kansas. It’s killing everybody. I’ve talked to multiple bar owners. And it’s killing everybody.”

:lol:

Are people traveling to Kansas at 10pm to drink or earlier so they can keep drinking past 10 and then go back to Missouri?

https://twitter.com/QuintonLucasKC/status/1333879517761449990

Kietzman is going to go off on, black lib Q.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12289 on: December 02, 2020, 09:27:41 AM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

Following your logic they shouldn’t have to close at 3 am either bc it’s arbitrary
3 am is arbitrary, but at least businesses understood that and had that expectation. 

In other words, they don't "lose 40% of their revenue" (and need to fire staff, etc.) by closing at 3 am.

Who determined it's a marginal benefit?
If you're open from 11am-10pm under certain circumstances, I just don't see why also being open from 10pm-3am under those same circumstances would present any additional significant risk.  If the rules are being followed/enforced, what's the difference? 


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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12290 on: December 02, 2020, 09:33:27 AM »
I don't think that I'm going too far out on a limb to say the rules are harder to enforce and aren't being followed consistently after 10pm

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12291 on: December 02, 2020, 09:58:38 AM »
even if the "rules" are followed people will be talking louder and more often from being drunk and not eating and therefore more likely to spread. I think dlew has been diagnosed with a good ol' case of willful ignorance

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12292 on: December 02, 2020, 10:06:04 AM »
Who is the idiot that predicted it would fade from the news?  It is literally everywhere

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12293 on: December 02, 2020, 10:06:29 AM »
I'm sure this has been talked about but I still find it odd when someone is walking there dog in a quiet neighborhood with a mask on. Personal preference I get that just find it a little quirky, especially when it was hot as balls out during the summer.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12294 on: December 02, 2020, 10:14:44 AM »
I'm sure this has been talked about but I still find it odd when someone is walking there dog in a quiet neighborhood with a mask on. Personal preference I get that just find it a little quirky, especially when it was hot as balls out during the summer.

I think masks outside are very silly but wear one anyway to make people I pass on the street feel more comfortable. I don't think that's particularly odd.

If there's no one around I might take it off depending on what I'm doing and how long I'll be doing it away from other people but I'll always have one with me.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12295 on: December 02, 2020, 10:19:02 AM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

Following your logic they shouldn’t have to close at 3 am either bc it’s arbitrary
3 am is arbitrary, but at least businesses understood that and had that expectation. 

In other words, they don't "lose 40% of their revenue" (and need to fire staff, etc.) by closing at 3 am.

Who determined it's a marginal benefit?
If you're open from 11am-10pm under certain circumstances, I just don't see why also being open from 10pm-3am under those same circumstances would present any additional significant risk.  If the rules are being followed/enforced, what's the difference?

So you don't remember Aggieville bars being different from 11a-10p and 10-2am? 

It sucks bars are losing revenue.  Many industries and people are with these restrictions.   

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12296 on: December 02, 2020, 10:24:17 AM »
I'm sure this has been talked about but I still find it odd when someone is walking there dog in a quiet neighborhood with a mask on. Personal preference I get that just find it a little quirky, especially when it was hot as balls out during the summer.

I think masks outside are very silly but wear one anyway to make people I pass on the street feel more comfortable. I don't think that's particularly odd.

If there's no one around I might take it off depending on what I'm doing and how long I'll be doing it away from other people but I'll always have one with me.
Yep thats all understandable imo. I routinely see a gal that is probably in her early 50s walking her dog by herself with absolutely no one around wearing one just puzzles me a bit. The other day I was jogging around my block and didn't mean to come up on her but she beelined away from me as quick as she could. Think people are just very scared of each other right now.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12297 on: December 02, 2020, 10:25:44 AM »
the argument of "why do anything if you can't do everything?" is pretty lol

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12298 on: December 02, 2020, 10:29:11 AM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

Following your logic they shouldn’t have to close at 3 am either bc it’s arbitrary
3 am is arbitrary, but at least businesses understood that and had that expectation. 

In other words, they don't "lose 40% of their revenue" (and need to fire staff, etc.) by closing at 3 am.

Who determined it's a marginal benefit?
If you're open from 11am-10pm under certain circumstances, I just don't see why also being open from 10pm-3am under those same circumstances would present any additional significant risk.  If the rules are being followed/enforced, what's the difference?

So you don't remember Aggieville bars being different from 11a-10p and 10-2am? 

It sucks bars are losing revenue.  Many industries and people are with these restrictions.
Wear masks, make people sit at tables, limit capacity.  Aggieville 10-2 am would look different regardless.

even if the "rules" are followed people will be talking louder and more often from being drunk and not eating and therefore more likely to spread. I think dlew has been diagnosed with a good ol' case of willful ignorance
People talk louder when they're not eating? 

Listen, I'm not saying it's safe to drink at bars, I'm saying the idea that "it becomes significantly less safe for people to drink at bars after 10 pm" doesn't make sense to me.  If we say it's permissibly safe for 60 people to eat/drink in a bar all day long with the understanding that staff is required to enforce the rules, it doesn't follow to me that night time makes that significantly more dangerous.

If we're trusting bars/restaurants to enforce the rules on busy NFL sunday afternoons, then why not Friday at midnight?


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12299 on: December 02, 2020, 10:31:56 AM »
the argument of "why do anything if you can't do everything?" is pretty lol
Because if what you're doing appears arbitrary and hurts people, it needs to be defended with something better than "people talk louder when they're drunk and not eating."

Also, we can "do everything."  If we want to shut down bars/restaurants, we can do that.  But letting them stay 60% open seems like the worst of both worlds.

The cost benefit just doesn't make sense to me.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]