Author Topic: Jussie Smollet  (Read 39593 times)

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Offline 8manpick

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #201 on: February 23, 2019, 01:39:57 AM »
America loves a comeback story, his career is not over.

Considering the vast majority of Americans had no idea who this guy was before this incident, I don't see him ever shedding this scarlet letter. This is particularly disappointing because it simultaneously stokes racial animosity while making it harder for real victims to be believed. You really think he can survive this?

LOL.
Your first sentence is a real two America's perspective. To millions of Americans Smollet is just as recognizable as Will Arnett and Jason Sudekis (I literally had to look these dudes names up, recognize their faces, forgot their names).

Your second sentence should be put on a poster for white fragility. White people have been blaming black men for crimes they didn't commit literally every day since emancipation. We wanna take bets on how many of my people are locked up because some white person wanted to pin a crime on them that they didn't commit, how many lynched, executed by the government? When any of that happens do white people feel the need to blame them for stoking black distrust in the white power structure? GMAFB on "stoking racial animosity," anyone who uses this or any other false accusation didn't need this to fuel the animus. Black people are 12% of the population, it should be clear to all that we hold no keys in controlling what white people think about race relations.

I know you don't condone his actions, if indeed the allegations of a hoax are proven to be true. But thanks for reminding me we have an ugly history of prejudice in this country, and in too many cases unrelated to this instance, that pattern continues today. If you want to make this about that, then I'm outtie. If unrelated to this case, you want to point out other instances of black people being unfairly victimized by the justice system, then I'll gladly stand beside you and voice my strong disapproval. Have a great day.

What I want is for people to stop making this about anything but one dude and an elaborate lie. I don't want white people using these highly publicized hoaxes as a crutch for improved race relations.  The boy who cried wolf talking point is 100% unacceptable, I'll hear it from the dax's, ksuw's, and the 27's of this world, but well meaning liberals and moderates should be metaphorically smacked every time they do it.
That's fair. 

But if we shouldn't give this episode any significance broader than the individual actors in this case, would that have been the case if Smollet was actually attacked by MAGA guys? 

In other words, let's say that two guys did attack Smollet and shout "this is MAGA country" and the events unfolded like Smollet actually reported.  Would you give credence to a trump supporter who said "wait a second, these highly publicized instances of violence shouldn't be given any significance beyond the individuals involved.  They aren't evidence of my intentions, the intentions of the president, or the intentions of those that support the president."

I could go either way on it, but I think we should probably be consistent.  Either we attach broader significance to these actions, or we limit the significance to the actors involved.

I dipped out on this thread because I felt like I was getting a little too emotional about it and it's not going to change anyone's mind, so why bother with the energy? I'll certainly not going to look over the 6 pages I missed but I do want to address this. Three things.
1. I would address an incident, a trump supporter attacking a minority in the name of MAGA as just that, a trump supporter attacking someone, why wouldn't I? It's odd that you not only assigned my intentions, but did so in the worst light, as if I'm not capable of spotting hypocrisy. More importantly, I don't understand the ramifications of thinking that most/all MAGAts are violent thugs waiting to attack someone because...
2. TRUMP SUPPORTERS ATTACK PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF MAGA ALL OF THE rough ridin' TIME, LIKE IT HAPPENS TONS, WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY MORE THAN ANY FALSELY REPORTED MAGA ATTACK. Forgive me for yelling, but my God, how short is your/our memory? It happens so often and without ramifications that we don't even blink anymore.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blame-abc-news-finds-17-cases-invoking-trump/story?id=58912889
Do you think that's all of it? This doesn't include a trump supporter attacking a bbc photographer in El Paso last month. This doesn't count any of the videos we've seen of trump supporters beating up protesters at rallies then he comes on stage to not only ignore the violence but to praise the aggressors, encouraging more. You cannot claim lasting damage to trump and/or his supporters when they have gotten none when they've committed these acts, it's business as normal and white fragility has caused this to covered and reconstructed far more that a proud boy mowing down a black lives matter supporter for the world to see.

In other words, if one were to not legitimize the trump supporter in your example, they could simply point to a well established pattern of behavior, not discouraged by trump himself, where there's no pattern of behavior of trump supporters being unfairly blamed for doing stuff like this. One could reasonably conclude that trump supporters are far more dangerous to society than any potential worry they could face from being unfairly painted as lawless thugs.
3. I don't remember my third, I'm probably going to leave this thread again.

Offline bucket

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #202 on: February 23, 2019, 07:36:07 AM »
But a white, military guy was going to kill the media? Samesies.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #203 on: February 23, 2019, 06:31:54 PM »

Offline _33

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #204 on: February 24, 2019, 01:50:05 PM »
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEpZzvSzYfI[/youtube]

Offline steve dave

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #205 on: February 24, 2019, 01:59:32 PM »
lol


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Offline DQ12

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #206 on: February 24, 2019, 02:17:15 PM »
That's fair. 

But if we shouldn't give this episode any significance broader than the individual actors in this case, would that have been the case if Smollet was actually attacked by MAGA guys? 

In other words, let's say that two guys did attack Smollet and shout "this is MAGA country" and the events unfolded like Smollet actually reported.  Would you give credence to a trump supporter who said "wait a second, these highly publicized instances of violence shouldn't be given any significance beyond the individuals involved.  They aren't evidence of my intentions, the intentions of the president, or the intentions of those that support the president."

I could go either way on it, but I think we should probably be consistent.  Either we attach broader significance to these actions, or we limit the significance to the actors involved.

I dipped out on this thread because I felt like I was getting a little too emotional about it and it's not going to change anyone's mind, so why bother with the energy? I'll certainly not going to look over the 6 pages I missed but I do want to address this. Three things.
1. I would address an incident, a trump supporter attacking a minority in the name of MAGA as just that, a trump supporter attacking someone, why wouldn't I? It's odd that you not only assigned my intentions, but did so in the worst light, as if I'm not capable of spotting hypocrisy. More importantly, I don't understand the ramifications of thinking that most/all MAGAts are violent thugs waiting to attack someone because...
2. TRUMP SUPPORTERS ATTACK PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF MAGA ALL OF THE rough ridin' TIME, LIKE IT HAPPENS TONS, WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY MORE THAN ANY FALSELY REPORTED MAGA ATTACK. Forgive me for yelling, but my God, how short is your/our memory? It happens so often and without ramifications that we don't even blink anymore.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blame-abc-news-finds-17-cases-invoking-trump/story?id=58912889
Do you think that's all of it? This doesn't include a trump supporter attacking a bbc photographer in El Paso last month. This doesn't count any of the videos we've seen of trump supporters beating up protesters at rallies then he comes on stage to not only ignore the violence but to praise the aggressors, encouraging more. You cannot claim lasting damage to trump and/or his supporters when they have gotten none when they've committed these acts, it's business as normal and white fragility has caused this to covered and reconstructed far more that a proud boy mowing down a black lives matter supporter for the world to see.

In other words, if one were to not legitimize the trump supporter in your example, they could simply point to a well established pattern of behavior, not discouraged by trump himself, where there's no pattern of behavior of trump supporters being unfairly blamed for doing stuff like this. One could reasonably conclude that trump supporters are far more dangerous to society than any potential worry they could face from being unfairly painted as lawless thugs.
3. I don't remember my third, I'm probably going to leave this thread again.
It was a genuine question.  Your first point answered it.  In a lot of these conversations, some people either ignore or defend double standards.  And I think discussing the existence/defense of them is interesting.  Clearly, given your first point, it appears you and I would tend to fall on the same side of that discussion. 

As to your second point, from what I can make of it at least, I think we mostly agree there too?  Though I will say that the ramifications of assigning blame for actions committed by individuals to entire groups (white, black, or otherwise) is that I think it's unhealthy for society.  I also think it may be unfair to the other members of the group who haven't committed those actions and may not condone them.  That said, I think this is interesting -- I'm still personally wrestling with this...which is why I like talking about it with smart people who may challenge me on it. 

I also disagree with you that trump supporters don't face ramifications for other actions committed by members of their groups.  There is a clear and obvious perception that Trump supporters (broadly speaking) are racist, in part, because of the racial violence committed in the name of Trump. People don't like to be perceived as racist.  Diminish that if you like, but I do consider that a ramification. 

Regardless, my only point in the post you quoted was trying to agree on some ground rules in how broadly we assign significance to individual, politicized bad actions.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 02:53:14 PM by Dlew12 »


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Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #207 on: February 24, 2019, 04:46:51 PM »
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEpZzvSzYfI[/youtube]
Holy crap :lol:

Offline 8manpick

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #208 on: March 08, 2019, 05:38:34 PM »
16 felony charges. He’ll do actual time for this
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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #209 on: March 08, 2019, 06:03:17 PM »
He’s going to have so much street cred after he gets out. Like Mark Wahlberg and Robert Downey Jr.
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Offline Institutional Control

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #210 on: March 08, 2019, 06:29:18 PM »
Over/under is set at 47 months.


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Offline steve dave

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #211 on: March 09, 2019, 06:29:31 AM »
This is an excellent case to make an example of someone on imo.


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Offline SkinnyBenny

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #213 on: March 13, 2019, 09:31:49 PM »
16 felony charges are an outrage. The next time DNA clears some dude who has served 25 years on death row are they going to find the cracker who took the stand with obvious bullshit eyewitness testimony and put them in jail? That crap is 1000x more harmful to individuals and society and they haven't locked any of those people up.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #214 on: March 13, 2019, 09:46:00 PM »
Agreed. Lock that person up for a long time.


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Offline catastrophe

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #215 on: March 13, 2019, 11:43:30 PM »
16 felony charges are an outrage. The next time DNA clears some dude who has served 25 years on death row are they going to find the cracker who took the stand with obvious bullshit eyewitness testimony and put them in jail? That crap is 1000x more harmful to individuals and society and they haven't locked any of those people up.

I would support this.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #216 on: March 13, 2019, 11:51:58 PM »
I also think that would be fair.

Offline bubbles4ksu

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #217 on: March 14, 2019, 09:44:27 AM »
16 felony charges are an outrage. The next time DNA clears some dude who has served 25 years on death row are they going to find the cracker who took the stand with obvious bullshit eyewitness testimony and put them in jail? That crap is 1000x more harmful to individuals and society and they haven't locked any of those people up.

This is one of the first that comes to mind, I'm sure MIR is aware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Banks_(American_football)

There was a very similar case more recently in Georgia.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #218 on: March 14, 2019, 10:03:30 AM »
that lady should do at least a decade in prison.

Offline 8manpick

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #219 on: March 14, 2019, 10:09:24 AM »
that lady should do at least a decade in prison.
Probably double whatever he did
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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #220 on: March 14, 2019, 10:16:11 AM »
I'd give her life. Sounds like a terrible person. Shouldn't be free.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #221 on: March 14, 2019, 10:51:52 AM »
16 felony charges are an outrage. The next time DNA clears some dude who has served 25 years on death row are they going to find the cracker who took the stand with obvious bullshit eyewitness testimony and put them in jail? That crap is 1000x more harmful to individuals and society and they haven't locked any of those people up.
Lock them all up imo.


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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #222 on: March 14, 2019, 11:03:18 AM »
Man, you people really like to imprison people
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #223 on: March 14, 2019, 11:16:46 AM »
I think we should just put false accusers on some sort of list, similar to the sex offenders list, where they are legally required to notify all of their neighbors/employers about their past accusations whenever they move, change jobs, etc. Imprisonment doesn't really serve any sort of purpose for them, imo.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Jussie Smollet
« Reply #224 on: March 14, 2019, 11:18:52 AM »
16 felony charges is insane. The stacking of felonies is one of the worst parts of our justice system. Give him 1 month jail, a big fine, and let's move on.