Author Topic: MEGA MAGA  (Read 449252 times)

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Offline PurpleOil

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3575 on: January 08, 2021, 01:36:59 PM »
/snip/

Haven't all the elections under dispute been audited and certified by the states, which is what the system is set up to do? If that is a problem, what did MAGA's do to change any of that over the last four years?

No, they most certainly have not. In fact, if you read the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruling, they admitted that there were all kinds of inconsistencies and irregularities within their state election. 3 of the 7 justices felt that the state should have thrown out over 220,000 ballots. Now yes, all the states have since certified their elections, but certifying erroneous votes doesn't make it right.

MAGA's didn't do much to change the way the elections are held because it's not up to the federal government. This is an issue that has to be resolved at the state level.

Quote from: LickNeckey
so you would be in favor of minimizing states rights then???

Where did you get that???

Quote from: Phil Titola
Demands of proving a negative to keep the "question" alive forever.

I'm not keeping anything alive. How can election integrity be a partisan issue?

Quote from: michigancat
/snip/

I'm struggling to find my original source as well, and I'm not going to spend a bunch of time on it. However, those number totals align with what I said, 2 out of 5.

Quote from: catastrophe
There were over 60 court cases where people had opportunities to present evidence about all of this. They all got dismissed for either having no basis in fact, non-credible witnesses, or being brought by people who had no interest in the issues they complained about.

I get that you're just parroting the major talking points about this from media articles, but if you'd actually read the rulings from these state courts, you wouldn't be saying this.

Quote from: waks
The fraudulent election boogieman problem exists solely because Trump is a demagogue and the Republican party let him run roughshod all over their party for four years because they are primarily composed of power-hungry cowards that acquiesced to everything he asked until they finally had an out. Trump started sowing uncertainty in our election system before he was even elected president. To suggest otherwise is incorrect.

No, it really isn't. There have been all kinds of suggestions that the system was flawed long before Trump came to power. He just pushed it to the front.

Quote from: waks
Quote from: PurpleOil
What I do know for certain is the fiasco on January 6th flat out doesn't happen, regardless of the outcome, if people truly believed in our elections.
The hubris in this statement is ridiculous. You absolutely do not know that.

Well I obviously can't prove a hypothetical, but if you honestly believe that people are willing to just blindly follow Trump and make him president just because he says so, then we don't have anything to discuss anymore. There's just not going to be any semblance of common ground between us.



Offline cfbandyman

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3576 on: January 08, 2021, 01:37:18 PM »
My biggest takeaway from all of this is that federal dollars really need to be spent to destigmatize and provide access to mental health services. It also might really be time to get rid of social media. These are mostly fully functional people who really need to get help.

Agree with the social media thing.  Federal dollars have been getting pumped to mental health organizations all over rural America.  The problem is many don't know the $$ is there so they do not apply for it, and others just have no idea how to use it.

Yeah, I'm fine if all social media went away too
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Offline michigancat

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3577 on: January 08, 2021, 01:39:30 PM »

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3578 on: January 08, 2021, 01:48:08 PM »
I just want to point out that the conversation that has purple oil all mad, that gooch, myself, and others were having was specifically about the symbolism of trump flags, and I expanded that to maga hats.

It was ol' purp who decided to make the discussion about symbols and make it a full throated defense of someone he didn't vote for and everyone else who did.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3579 on: January 08, 2021, 01:49:04 PM »

Quote from: catastrophe
There were over 60 court cases where people had opportunities to present evidence about all of this. They all got dismissed for either having no basis in fact, non-credible witnesses, or being brought by people who had no interest in the issues they complained about.

I get that you're just parroting the major talking points about this from media articles, but if you'd actually read the rulings from these state courts, you wouldn't be saying this.


I’ve read a few of them, but if you have any enlightening original sources to refute the media’s narrative I’m happy to consider them.

Offline waks

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3580 on: January 08, 2021, 01:51:58 PM »
Quote from: waks
The fraudulent election boogieman problem exists solely because Trump is a demagogue and the Republican party let him run roughshod all over their party for four years because they are primarily composed of power-hungry cowards that acquiesced to everything he asked until they finally had an out. Trump started sowing uncertainty in our election system before he was even elected president. To suggest otherwise is incorrect.

No, it really isn't. There have been all kinds of suggestions that the system was flawed long before Trump came to power. He just pushed it to the front.

Quote from: waks
Quote from: PurpleOil
What I do know for certain is the fiasco on January 6th flat out doesn't happen, regardless of the outcome, if people truly believed in our elections.
The hubris in this statement is ridiculous. You absolutely do not know that.

Well I obviously can't prove a hypothetical, but if you honestly believe that people are willing to just blindly follow Trump and make him president just because he says so, then we don't have anything to discuss anymore. There's just not going to be any semblance of common ground between us.
If state legislatures want to review their election processes in light of the recent events I'm all for it as long as it doesn't result in voter suppression which is almost always what the endgame is in these discussions.

As far as your second point, I absolutely believe that those that stormed the Capitol are willing to just blindly follow Trump. They legitimately thought their actions would be successful which shows their complete derangement and lack of capacity for rational thought. Furthermore, I don't think that there was anything that could be done that would have prevented Trump from accepting the results of an election he lost. He has stated for the past four years that he won the popular vote in 2016 when we know he did not and not even his biggest supporters in Congress have parroted those talking points.

Offline Spracne

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3581 on: January 08, 2021, 01:56:27 PM »
https://twitter.com/dlippman/status/1347612365093826565?s=20

Obviously these people are insane, but I really do enjoy people calling out politicians in public.

Me personally, it fills me with a sense of dread about the next few years ...  :frown:

Offline 8manpick

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3582 on: January 08, 2021, 02:01:12 PM »
If 75% of Republicans believe the Easter Bunny is actually a deranged serial killer, is it incumbent on Democrats and Independents to finally rid our country of that meddlesome hare?
Yeah, using the talking point about what % of Republicans don’t believe the election results to be evidence of fraud actually existing is crazy dumb.
:adios:

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3583 on: January 08, 2021, 02:02:24 PM »
https://twitter.com/dlippman/status/1347612365093826565?s=20

Obviously these people are insane, but I really do enjoy people calling out politicians in public.

Me personally, it fills me with a sense of dread about the next few years ...  :frown:

Well hopefully scores of them publicly going to jail will calm people down a bit.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3584 on: January 08, 2021, 02:09:59 PM »
Republican leaders letting Trump act a fool for four years and now having to deal with it is like my "interactions" with crazy red heads in college.  Sure was fun but now have to deal with what you cultivated.

Offline PurpleOil

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3585 on: January 08, 2021, 02:13:10 PM »
I just want to point out that the conversation that has purple oil all mad, that gooch, myself, and others were having was specifically about the symbolism of trump flags, and I expanded that to maga hats.

It was ol' purp who decided to make the discussion about symbols and make it a full throated defense of someone he didn't vote for and everyone else who did.

My first post in this thread was to tell you to not label everyone you disagree with as a terrorist, because that is a road that will only lead to more violence.

You then basically called me a MAGA supporter. I told you I didn't vote for him.

After going back and forth on some smaller details that other members apparently couldn't read, I was asked how to placate the mob.

I replied that if you had a system in place that more people actually believed resulted in a secure and transparent election that you'd cut the legs out for good from underneath any politician who held an objection to the election.

Not sure how you get I'm a Trump humper from any of that but you go ahead and do you bud.

Offline 8manpick

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3586 on: January 08, 2021, 02:15:20 PM »
I just want to point out that the conversation that has purple oil all mad, that gooch, myself, and others were having was specifically about the symbolism of trump flags, and I expanded that to maga hats.

It was ol' purp who decided to make the discussion about symbols and make it a full throated defense of someone he didn't vote for and everyone else who did.

My first post in this thread was to tell you to not label everyone you disagree with as a terrorist, because that is a road that will only lead to more violence.

You then basically called me a MAGA supporter. I told you I didn't vote for him.

After going back and forth on some smaller details that other members apparently couldn't read, I was asked how to placate the mob.

I replied that if you had a system in place that more people actually believed resulted in a secure and transparent election that you'd cut the legs out for good from underneath any politician who held an objection to the election.

Not sure how you get I'm a Trump humper from any of that but you go ahead and do you bud.
The system isn’t the reason people didn’t believe in it, the orange blowhard claiming fraud since pre-election 2016 is
:adios:

Offline PurpleOil

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3587 on: January 08, 2021, 02:19:41 PM »
If 75% of Republicans believe the Easter Bunny is actually a deranged serial killer, is it incumbent on Democrats and Independents to finally rid our country of that meddlesome hare?
Yeah, using the talking point about what % of Republicans don’t believe the election results to be evidence of fraud actually existing is crazy dumb.

Judas Priest do any of you mouth breathers actually read? I have never claimed that this election was a fraud. What I have claimed, and stated, and reiterated several times now is people BELIEVE it was a fraud. We need to change our system so that anyone who claims fraud can be easily disproven.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3588 on: January 08, 2021, 02:21:14 PM »
If 75% of Republicans believe the Easter Bunny is actually a deranged serial killer, is it incumbent on Democrats and Independents to finally rid our country of that meddlesome hare?
Yeah, using the talking point about what % of Republicans don’t believe the election results to be evidence of fraud actually existing is crazy dumb.

Judas Priest do any of you mouth breathers actually read? I have never claimed that this election was a fraud. What I have claimed, and stated, and reiterated several times now is people BELIEVE it was a fraud. We need to change our system so that anyone who claims fraud can be easily disproven.

That is impossible.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3589 on: January 08, 2021, 02:22:28 PM »
I just want to point out that the conversation that has purple oil all mad, that gooch, myself, and others were having was specifically about the symbolism of trump flags, and I expanded that to maga hats.

It was ol' purp who decided to make the discussion about symbols and make it a full throated defense of someone he didn't vote for and everyone else who did.

My first post in this thread was to tell you to not label everyone you disagree with as a terrorist, because that is a road that will only lead to more violence.

You then basically called me a MAGA supporter. I told you I didn't vote for him.


After going back and forth on some smaller details that other members apparently couldn't read, I was asked how to placate the mob.

I replied that if you had a system in place that more people actually believed resulted in a secure and transparent election that you'd cut the legs out for good from underneath any politician who held an objection to the election.

Not sure how you get I'm a Trump humper from any of that but you go ahead and do you bud.

Again, no one said a damn thing about "everyone who disagrees," you brought that element into the conversation, we were talking about trump flags. I called you a trumper because you felt the need to defend, apparently all trump voters, I guess that's what you mean by disagreeing with me. No one was having that conversation, you took offense then attempted to speak to me like a child.


Offline PurpleOil

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3590 on: January 08, 2021, 02:23:52 PM »
I just want to point out that the conversation that has purple oil all mad, that gooch, myself, and others were having was specifically about the symbolism of trump flags, and I expanded that to maga hats.

It was ol' purp who decided to make the discussion about symbols and make it a full throated defense of someone he didn't vote for and everyone else who did.

My first post in this thread was to tell you to not label everyone you disagree with as a terrorist, because that is a road that will only lead to more violence.

You then basically called me a MAGA supporter. I told you I didn't vote for him.

After going back and forth on some smaller details that other members apparently couldn't read, I was asked how to placate the mob.

I replied that if you had a system in place that more people actually believed resulted in a secure and transparent election that you'd cut the legs out for good from underneath any politician who held an objection to the election.

Not sure how you get I'm a Trump humper from any of that but you go ahead and do you bud.
The system isn’t the reason people didn’t believe in it, the orange blowhard claiming fraud since pre-election 2016 is

Bullshit. Democrats have objected to the electoral counts in elections as recent as 2000, 2004, and 2016. Now either they were full of it then and shouldn't be trusted now, or they knew, as others now claim that there are issues with the system. It's either one or the other, can't have both.

Offline PurpleOil

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3591 on: January 08, 2021, 02:24:46 PM »
If 75% of Republicans believe the Easter Bunny is actually a deranged serial killer, is it incumbent on Democrats and Independents to finally rid our country of that meddlesome hare?
Yeah, using the talking point about what % of Republicans don’t believe the election results to be evidence of fraud actually existing is crazy dumb.

Judas Priest do any of you mouth breathers actually read? I have never claimed that this election was a fraud. What I have claimed, and stated, and reiterated several times now is people BELIEVE it was a fraud. We need to change our system so that anyone who claims fraud can be easily disproven.

That is impossible.

Why?

Offline chum1

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3592 on: January 08, 2021, 02:26:33 PM »
Do you guys think PurpleOil would have voted for any guy who tried to overthrow the government or just Trump?

Offline michigancat

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3593 on: January 08, 2021, 02:28:47 PM »
I think 2000 was a reasonable election to challenge.

I didn't know 2004 was contested and 2016 sure wasn't contested the way this one is.

Offline Spracne

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3594 on: January 08, 2021, 02:29:37 PM »
If 75% of Republicans believe the Easter Bunny is actually a deranged serial killer, is it incumbent on Democrats and Independents to finally rid our country of that meddlesome hare?
Yeah, using the talking point about what % of Republicans don’t believe the election results to be evidence of fraud actually existing is crazy dumb.

Judas Priest do any of you mouth breathers actually read? I have never claimed that this election was a fraud. What I have claimed, and stated, and reiterated several times now is people BELIEVE it was a fraud. We need to change our system so that anyone who claims fraud can be easily disproven.

So, because a certain number of certain people BELIEVE something (that is demonstrably false), it is incumbent upon all of us to take ACTION to restore their faith in our elections. Got it.

By the way, I don't think you understood the comments about states' rights. States have the right to run their own elections as they see fit. That's our system. Revamping it into a unitary federal voting system would be a radical change, and would be subject to constitutional challenges. That is why some are surprised you brought up the idea.

Online LickNeckey

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3596 on: January 08, 2021, 02:31:03 PM »
If 75% of Republicans believe the Easter Bunny is actually a deranged serial killer, is it incumbent on Democrats and Independents to finally rid our country of that meddlesome hare?
Yeah, using the talking point about what % of Republicans don’t believe the election results to be evidence of fraud actually existing is crazy dumb.

Judas Priest do any of you mouth breathers actually read?

Ironic given your refusal to acknowledge that you didn't properly read what was going on that marked your entry into this conversation.

Offline 8manpick

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MAGA
« Reply #3597 on: January 08, 2021, 02:31:54 PM »
If 75% of Republicans believe the Easter Bunny is actually a deranged serial killer, is it incumbent on Democrats and Independents to finally rid our country of that meddlesome hare?
Yeah, using the talking point about what % of Republicans don’t believe the election results to be evidence of fraud actually existing is crazy dumb.

Judas Priest do any of you mouth breathers actually read? I have never claimed that this election was a fraud. What I have claimed, and stated, and reiterated several times now is people BELIEVE it was a fraud. We need to change our system so that anyone who claims fraud can be easily disproven.
We should start by punishing those who brought nonsense claims of fraud based on no evidence, which apparently convinced all these idiots who BELIEVE it was a fraud.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 02:35:44 PM by 8manpick »
:adios:

Offline PurpleOil

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3598 on: January 08, 2021, 02:32:32 PM »
I just want to point out that the conversation that has purple oil all mad, that gooch, myself, and others were having was specifically about the symbolism of trump flags, and I expanded that to maga hats.

It was ol' purp who decided to make the discussion about symbols and make it a full throated defense of someone he didn't vote for and everyone else who did.

My first post in this thread was to tell you to not label everyone you disagree with as a terrorist, because that is a road that will only lead to more violence.

You then basically called me a MAGA supporter. I told you I didn't vote for him.


After going back and forth on some smaller details that other members apparently couldn't read, I was asked how to placate the mob.

I replied that if you had a system in place that more people actually believed resulted in a secure and transparent election that you'd cut the legs out for good from underneath any politician who held an objection to the election.

Not sure how you get I'm a Trump humper from any of that but you go ahead and do you bud.

Again, no one said a damn thing about "everyone who disagrees," you brought that element into the conversation, we were talking about trump flags. I called you a trumper because you felt the need to defend, apparently all trump voters, I guess that's what you mean by disagreeing with me. No one was having that conversation, you took offense then attempted to speak to me like a child.

I'm not defending trump voters or the action that occurred on January 6th. No where in this thread can you find that. You're just making crap up at this point. I have stated, very specifically, that you should not label people who wear that Trump items as terrorists. It was directly in response to this statement of yours.

Quote from: MakeItRain
That being said Trump flags should be treated the same way as Jihadist flags, and confederate battle flags were treated during the civil war.

I am very concerned that the actions and attitudes of people in this country, specifically yours in this instance, are going to lead to more violence and death.

I have no idea how to spell it out any more plainly to you people.

Offline steve dave

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Re: MAGA
« Reply #3599 on: January 08, 2021, 02:34:12 PM »
 :comeatme: