The Trump Presidency

[sonofdaxjones]

Dax. We all love America. Some people love America so much that they risk life and limb to be here. I respect that. We can't choose our birth, but we can choose our death.

That's not really the point, and by creating that very scenario you are aiding and abetting some of the worst people on the planet.


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[SdK]

Dax. We all love America. Some people love America so much that they risk life and limb to be here. I respect that. We can't choose our birth, but we can choose our death.

I don't really support the whole "choose your death" thing . . . seems really suicidal. But that is beside the point. SDK do you support absolutely anyone who wants to be American should be? In your example they risked their life. . . if they took a calm and uneventful flight to the US. . .are they allowed to be citizens too?

I was lucky to be born here. I didn't choose that. I'm a totally ok with people choosing to die here. Of course I am on board with kicking criminals out.


I can't get on board with ignoring how lucky we are and hating on people who want what we have. We are blessed.

[Phil Titola]

some of the worst people on earth are US citizens right next door based on crimes we see and domestic terrorist attacks.

[Yard Dog]

Dax. We all love America. Some people love America so much that they risk life and limb to be here. I respect that. We can't choose our birth, but we can choose our death.

I don't really support the whole "choose your death" thing . . . seems really suicidal. But that is beside the point. SDK do you support absolutely anyone who wants to be American should be? In your example they risked their life. . . if they took a calm and uneventful flight to the US. . .are they allowed to be citizens too?

I was lucky to be born here. I didn't choose that. I'm a totally ok with people choosing to die here. Of course I am on board with kicking criminals out.


I can't get on board with ignoring how lucky we are and hating on people who want what we have. We are blessed.

So how many? Where do you draw the line on people coming here? What should they have to do to be citizens? What if the criminals have children? Do you deport the whole family?

[Phil Titola]

Dax. We all love America. Some people love America so much that they risk life and limb to be here. I respect that. We can't choose our birth, but we can choose our death.

I don't really support the whole "choose your death" thing . . . seems really suicidal. But that is beside the point. SDK do you support absolutely anyone who wants to be American should be? In your example they risked their life. . . if they took a calm and uneventful flight to the US. . .are they allowed to be citizens too?

I was lucky to be born here. I didn't choose that. I'm a totally ok with people choosing to die here. Of course I am on board with kicking criminals out.


I can't get on board with ignoring how lucky we are and hating on people who want what we have. We are blessed.

I don't think anybody really comprehends this.  Those of us born here take it for granted...so those who want to deny that to other humans seems really dickish.

[SdK]

Dax. We all love America. Some people love America so much that they risk life and limb to be here. I respect that. We can't choose our birth, but we can choose our death.

I don't really support the whole "choose your death" thing . . . seems really suicidal. But that is beside the point. SDK do you support absolutely anyone who wants to be American should be? In your example they risked their life. . . if they took a calm and uneventful flight to the US. . .are they allowed to be citizens too?

I was lucky to be born here. I didn't choose that. I'm a totally ok with people choosing to die here. Of course I am on board with kicking criminals out.


I can't get on board with ignoring how lucky we are and hating on people who want what we have. We are blessed.

So how many? Where do you draw the line on people coming here? What should they have to do to be citizens? What if the criminals have children? Do you deport the whole family?

Look I don't know.  I do know that far more citizens harm other people that this illegal problem. I'd rather focus on minimizing pain than kicking someone who fights for luxury I was born with

[SdK]

Dax. We all love America. Some people love America so much that they risk life and limb to be here. I respect that. We can't choose our birth, but we can choose our death.

I don't really support the whole "choose your death" thing . . . seems really suicidal. But that is beside the point. SDK do you support absolutely anyone who wants to be American should be? In your example they risked their life. . . if they took a calm and uneventful flight to the US. . .are they allowed to be citizens too?

I was lucky to be born here. I didn't choose that. I'm a totally ok with people choosing to die here. Of course I am on board with kicking criminals out.


I can't get on board with ignoring how lucky we are and hating on people who want what we have. We are blessed.

I don't think anybody really comprehends this.  Those of us born here take it for granted...so those who want to deny that to other humans seems really dickish.

It's crap. I was born a white middle class American male. I don't think it's possible to be more fortunate.

[sonofdaxjones]

some of the worst people on earth are US citizens right next door based on crimes we see and domestic terrorist attacks.

That has nothing to do with illegal immigration and failing to control the borders. 


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[Phil Titola]

some of the worst people on earth are US citizens right next door based on crimes we see and domestic terrorist attacks.

That has nothing to do with illegal immigration and failing to control the borders. 


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it does when you use fear tactics to deny entry of people and build walls for billions of dollars to control borders.

[Yard Dog]

The true solution is to make becoming a citizen easier. Make the standards clear.

In that same way, allow for low-skill employment by temporary visitors. So people can come into the United States and work but have to leave after a certain amount of time or when a job is said to be complete.

I also enjoy the idea of military service in exchange for citizenship, but I know there are some issues with that approach.

The one thing that I can't figure out is how to determine who should be a citizen. It is fair to say that at some point our systems would be overwhelmed if anyone could come here and live. It is also fair to say that this could pose a security issue. Not to mention that if we ever had the Bernie dream socialistic welfare system it would be increasingly difficult to support the ever growing population of citizens.

So what is the cut off? Skilled workers only? Citizens sponsored by an existing American citizen or company? People who have displayed loyalty to the United States?

[cfbandyman]

The true solution is to make becoming a citizen easier. Make the standards clear.

In that same way, allow for low-skill employment by temporary visitors. So people can come into the United States and work but have to leave after a certain amount of time or when a job is said to be complete.

I also enjoy the idea of military service in exchange for citizenship, but I know there are some issues with that approach.

The one thing that I can't figure out is how to determine who should be a citizen. It is fair to say that at some point our systems would be overwhelmed if anyone could come here and live. It is also fair to say that this could pose a security issue. Not to mention that if we ever had the Bernie dream socialistic welfare system it would be increasingly difficult to support the ever growing population of citizens.

So what is the cut off? Skilled workers only? Citizens sponsored by an existing American citizen or company? People who have displayed loyalty to the United States?

It's not really enough, but if they intend to, in reverse logic of our laws, want to be a citizen, then it should be extended to them

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality/citizenship-and-foreign-military-service.html

Military service in foreign countries, however, usually does not cause loss of nationality since an intention to relinquish nationality  normally is lacking.  In adjudicating loss of nationality cases, the Department has established an administrative presumption that a person serving in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities against the United States does not have the intention to relinquish nationality. On the other hand, voluntary service in the armed forces of a state engaged in hostilities against the United States could be viewed as indicative of an intention to relinquish U.S. nationality.

That being said, I stand by what I put in the immigration thread:

It's such a complex issue, but in general the tenets need to be:

-Work with Mexico and Central America to get those who wish to come here, to come here legally (though as I'll tirelessly say again, most come through an airport, and overstay their visa, no stupid wall is going to do that). It worked well when Mexico was actually extraditing people back to Central America that was using Mexico was a through way. Instead of alienating and antagonizing Mexico/central america.

-Those who are here illegally, if they are committing no crimes other than overstaying, get them on a path to citizenship, that will quickly get them to paying taxes rather than dodging them (though the businesses are doing more of that issue). Deporting noncriminals only costs more money, rips people apart, and takes too much time and resources. 

-Any of those are committing violent crimes and the like, send em out.

-Wall is a waste of time and money. Just patrol better.

-In terms of limits on how many, IDK, it never really worked properly in the 1800s, can't imagine it working that well today. You can try, but ultimately if they want to come and can prove they can make it work here, I don't see a problem.

The assimilation issue is part an immigration, part totally something else. Other groups that came here created little italies, chinatowns, and the like. It may bother you, but you kind of can't stop it. It's not really illegal to only want to speak Spanish. As long as you are adhering to the law, you just kind of have to deal with it. And assimilation goes both ways, you got to walk you walk towards them too, you can't just dictate them to you.   

As for refugees, it's fine to vet them, not sure what "extreme vetting" means to Drumpf but in general, get them documented, check their background, accept them, disperse among the country, monitor as necessary, and move on. Just don't make it last too long, you're hurting them and not really helping you. The humanitarian benefit makes America look like a partner to the world, which helps our rather tattered image.

[sonofdaxjones]

some of the worst people on earth are US citizens right next door based on crimes we see and domestic terrorist attacks.

That has nothing to do with illegal immigration and failing to control the borders. 


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it does when you use fear tactics to deny entry of people and build walls for billions of dollars to control borders.

It's the responsibility of the leadership of sovereign nations to control its borders and immigration in a post 9-11 world. 

A suspension to review methods and procedures is not a fear tactic.  I suppose you missed that the FBI had to try and track down a number of Syrian refugees who were already in the country because State's database is so shitty.  I suppose you also missed that Obama's chief spook testified last year that there's holes all over the vetting system.  I suppose you missed that ISIS captured a Syrian passport machine and relevant documents. 

The Border Fence Act of 2006, that received strong Dem support, still exists. 


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[ednksu]

some of the worst people on earth are US citizens right next door based on crimes we see and domestic terrorist attacks.

That has nothing to do with illegal immigration and failing to control the borders. 


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it does when you use fear tactics to deny entry of people and build walls for billions of dollars to control borders.

It's the responsibility of the leadership of sovereign nations to control its borders and immigration in a post 9-11 world. 

A suspension to review methods and procedures is not a fear tactic.  I suppose you missed that the FBI had to try and track down a number of Syrian refugees who were already in the country because State's database is so shitty.  I suppose you also missed that Obama's chief spook testified last year that there's holes all over the vetting system.  I suppose you missed that ISIS captured a Syrian passport machine and relevant documents. 

The Border Fence Act of 2006, that received strong Dem support, still exists. 


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literally none of the issues raised are true except for ISIS getting a passport machine.  The rest is debunked crap from daxcon news sources. 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I know a really great guy who lives in yemen, but really wants to live in the u.s., therefore, we shouldn't have/enforce immigration laws.
-libtards itt

[sonofdaxjones]

some of the worst people on earth are US citizens right next door based on crimes we see and domestic terrorist attacks.

That has nothing to do with illegal immigration and failing to control the borders. 


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it does when you use fear tactics to deny entry of people and build walls for billions of dollars to control borders.

It's the responsibility of the leadership of sovereign nations to control its borders and immigration in a post 9-11 world. 

A suspension to review methods and procedures is not a fear tactic.  I suppose you missed that the FBI had to try and track down a number of Syrian refugees who were already in the country because State's database is so shitty.  I suppose you also missed that Obama's chief spook testified last year that there's holes all over the vetting system.  I suppose you missed that ISIS captured a Syrian passport machine and relevant documents. 

The Border Fence Act of 2006, that received strong Dem support, still exists. 


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literally none of the issues raised are true except for ISIS getting a passport machine.  The rest is debunked crap from daxcon news sources. 

You literally spittle and drool they same thing all the time now.

 Get off of Vox, Salon and ThinkProgress Whackadoo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/11/17/senior-obama-officials-have-warned-of-challenges-in-screening-refugees-from-syria/

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-syria-refugees-vetting-gap-20170125-story.html



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[ednksu]

some of the worst people on earth are US citizens right next door based on crimes we see and domestic terrorist attacks.

That has nothing to do with illegal immigration and failing to control the borders. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it does when you use fear tactics to deny entry of people and build walls for billions of dollars to control borders.

It's the responsibility of the leadership of sovereign nations to control its borders and immigration in a post 9-11 world. 

A suspension to review methods and procedures is not a fear tactic.  I suppose you missed that the FBI had to try and track down a number of Syrian refugees who were already in the country because State's database is so shitty.  I suppose you also missed that Obama's chief spook testified last year that there's holes all over the vetting system.  I suppose you missed that ISIS captured a Syrian passport machine and relevant documents. 

The Border Fence Act of 2006, that received strong Dem support, still exists. 


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literally none of the issues raised are true except for ISIS getting a passport machine.  The rest is debunked crap from daxcon news sources. 

You literally spittle and drool they same thing all the time now.

 Get off of Vox, Salon and ThinkProgress Whackadoo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/11/17/senior-obama-officials-have-warned-of-challenges-in-screening-refugees-from-syria/

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-syria-refugees-vetting-gap-20170125-story.html



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Holes all over the system = intelligence people saying yeah it's hard, but we have a great success rate, and the one lapse we had we fixed and haven't had an issue since. 

seems exactly the same. why don't you post the comey comment about extreme vetting next so I can laugh at you some more. or maybe make a comparison to europe, that's always a great line of crap.

[sonofdaxjones]

In other words your entire schtick about Zero Hedge and debunked is LOL'ing wrong, as usual. 




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[ednksu]

In other words your entire schtick about Zero Hedge and debunked is LOL'ing wrong, as usual. 




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I'm sorry you're too ignorant to understand stories. :(
Keep not reading though, that is the mark of a well rounded mind.

[sonofdaxjones]

In other words your entire schtick about Zero Hedge and debunked is LOL'ing wrong, as usual. 




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I'm sorry you're too ignorant to understand stories. :(
Keep not reading though, that is the mark of a well rounded mind.

Lol, you keep posting the same bullshit.  Government rarely fixes things quickly.  If you want to believe an expansive government database and system involving a myriad of agencies was "fixed" in a manner that the real world would deem quickly and correctly, then keep hitting that bong. 

In addition thanks to the idiocy of your heroes and the rest of the idiot regime change in Syria ghouls.  Syria is now a melting pot of radicalized fighters (remember even the NYT said that not one faction fighting in Syria could truly be considered moderate and non theocratic).   As Comey said they have no record on most of these people.   

There's absolutely no good reason not to have a pause for review of refugees from nations your heroes bombed, overthrew or try to overthrow their governments and shipped the worst people in to fight against the sitting government. 

The groundwork for all of this was laid by your hero and with widespread Dem support.  Just a couple of years ago the usual Dem suspects were running around saying we need to look at suspensions on refugees and your hero quietly banned Iraqi refugees for six months.

Now back to EdnWhackadoo the hyper partisan hack. 


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[Yard Dog]

I've never understood the argument that "nothing bad has happened yet, so why change anything?" You make the changes to prepare for a threat that is different than previous threats.

That sounds pretty close to identical to a conservative saying we don't need to pay attention to climate science because the air is fine to breathe right now.

[ednksu]

I've never understood the argument that "nothing bad has happened yet, so why change anything?" You make the changes to prepare for a threat that is different than previous threats.

That sounds pretty close to identical to a conservative saying we don't need to pay attention to climate science because the air is fine to breathe right now.

The issue is that this "pause" which isn't really a pause, does nothing to fix an issue we don't have.  All this does is make bigots like Dax feel better about keeping brown people in their place.  Vetting we have is working fine.  We're ducking our obligations under domestic and international law and making us look like cowards. 

[sonofdaxjones]

I've never understood the argument that "nothing bad has happened yet, so why change anything?" You make the changes to prepare for a threat that is different than previous threats.

That sounds pretty close to identical to a conservative saying we don't need to pay attention to climate science because the air is fine to breathe right now.

The issue is that this "pause" which isn't really a pause, does nothing to fix an issue we don't have.  All this does is make bigots like Dax feel better about keeping brown people in their place.  Vetting we have is working fine.  We're ducking our obligations under domestic and international law and making us look like cowards.

Complete bullshit.   Amazing how you will never broach what your hero has done to create this security issue and how he and his administration are responsible for destroying these poor people's homeland and how his administration filled these countries with the worst people on the planet.

Your hero was bringing a mere trickle of the refugees he was playing a large role in creating.   Yet nary a peep from hyperpartisan whackadoo EDN.

[ednksu]

I've never understood the argument that "nothing bad has happened yet, so why change anything?" You make the changes to prepare for a threat that is different than previous threats.

That sounds pretty close to identical to a conservative saying we don't need to pay attention to climate science because the air is fine to breathe right now.

The issue is that this "pause" which isn't really a pause, does nothing to fix an issue we don't have.  All this does is make bigots like Dax feel better about keeping brown people in their place.  Vetting we have is working fine.  We're ducking our obligations under domestic and international law and making us look like cowards.

Complete bullshit.   Amazing how you will never broach what your hero has done to create this security issue and how he and his administration are responsible for destroying these poor people's homeland and how his administration filled these countries with the worst people on the planet.

Your hero was bringing a mere trickle of the refugees he was playing a large role in creating.   Yet nary a peep from hyperpartisan whackadoo EDN.

 

Off the wagon.  Day drinking should only be done watching the Brucecats on a nice Saturday.

[sonofdaxjones]

Tapped out as usual.

Sad


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[The Big Train]

I wish I could see FSD face when he reads this

https://twitter.com/maddow/status/841795163664089089