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[MakeItRain]

K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom

You don't think I knew the accomplishments of those teams when I posted that? When taken into historical context those teams will be looked like the same damn team.
...
For the record the '19 team, with the exact same players as the '18 team, was the best team we've had since the '88 team.

Historical context?  Who cares!  We’re kstate fans talking recent kstate hoops that we all experienced together.  Most of us like 2010 more than the 2018 because they were a much better team.  Period.  But that’s not to say we didn’t enjoy the hell out of that 2018 run as well.

If you want to say 2019 isn’t appreciated enough because of oscar, that’s an argument I can agree with.

But the historical context was the point of what I was saying when I stated that those teams were the same.

God, this conversation is gonna cause me to shine a bright light on a team I liked a lot, but looking back I'm not sure that team was as fun. Honestly, they disappointed us in big moments, more than once. Lost to assy Ole Miss in the Paradise Jam, lost to KU three damn times including in the Big 12 tournament championship, and they beat the holy eff out of us in the piss barn, that embarrassing loss to flood aggie on Senior day that we thought might have cost us Oklahoma City, and of course going out the way we did against Butler. In fact if they didn't get me an incredible weekend with my gE buds in Oklahoma City, it might have been the most disappointing team of our lifetime. That team definitely gets credit in retrospect that they probably didn't earn. That was a classic frank team, some great times marked by frustrating bullshit.

The '11 team was much more fun for me. The Sports Illustrated cover, The CBE, the Valentine's Day massacre, Frankuary, that fat Utah State fan crying in the stands, wild bill? Pullen breaking the scoring record. If not for bitch ass Colorado that would have been the goat team.

[sonofdaxjones]

Having witnessed Tom Asbury attempt to beat NC State's defense from the 2nd row behind the K-State bench in Reynolds Coliseum.

The effort against WVU was just as bad, if not worse.

9 years into the Weber tenure and he's absolutely clown suited at home by a team that hasn't played in two weeks.

But there's people still defending the guy.   They actually exist.

[wetwillie]

Having witnessed Tom Asbury attempt to beat NC State's defense from the 2nd row behind the K-State bench in Reynolds Coliseum.

The effort against WVU was just as bad, if not worse.

9 years into the Weber tenure and he's absolutely clown suited at home by a team that hasn't played in two weeks.

But there's people still defending the guy.   They actually exist.

I haven’t run across one in the wild yet but I’m sure you are right

[chum1]

I was well aware of the 2010 kenpom ranking at the time. I'd since forgotten and thought of those two E8 teams in basically the same way. It won't be long before I forget again.

[sonofdaxjones]

Having witnessed Tom Asbury attempt to beat NC State's defense from the 2nd row behind the K-State bench in Reynolds Coliseum.

The effort against WVU was just as bad, if not worse.

9 years into the Weber tenure and he's absolutely clown suited at home by a team that hasn't played in two weeks.

But there's people still defending the guy.   They actually exist.

I haven’t run across one in the wild yet but I’m sure you are right

KSO has several Weberites still trying to put a fight.  Inserting a lot of FUD about having to find a new coach. 

[michigancat]

Did anyone here go to a 2018 tournament game?

I went to the Creighton game

[michigancat]

He's doing exactly what's expected.

Yeah, oscar is doing exactly what we should have expected him to do when we hired him. His last season at Illinois wasn't quite as bad as this one, but it was bad enough that this season shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.

But different AD's so whatever

[ChiComCat]

K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

Lol, shut up.

If anything, your stat shows how flukey it was.

The 2010 had an average seeding like that because they earned it by being the 2 seed. 
The 2018 team received the same difficulty of run by being beneficiaries of the greatest upset in NCAA tournament history. 

The 2010 earned the easy run and the 2018 team fell ass backwards into it.

[ChiComCat]

I don't care that oscar gets credit for it, he can only play who advances in the bracket.  I just think it's disingenuous to pretend that the 2018 team wasn't the beneficiaries of the flukiest NCAA tournament game of all time.

[Shooter Jones]

I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

[ChiComCat]

I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

[wetwillie]

I don't care that oscar gets credit for it, he can only play who advances in the bracket.  I just think it's disingenuous to pretend that the 2018 team wasn't the beneficiaries of the flukiest NCAA tournament game of all time.

2014 draw was against an 8 seed Kentucky that made it to the title game, you get good and bad breaks in the tournament.   

[michigancat]

I don't care that oscar gets credit for it, he can only play who advances in the bracket.  I just think it's disingenuous to pretend that the 2018 team wasn't the beneficiaries of the flukiest NCAA tournament game of all time.

2014 draw was against an 8 seed Kentucky that made it to the title game, you get good and bad breaks in the tournament.

Yes and regular season success leads to top seeds and makes those first and second round breaks mostly irrelevant

[Shooter Jones]

I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.

[Rage Against the McKee]

When you earn a 9 seed, every team you play in the tournament typically is going to have had a better season than you did. That's not bad luck.

[ChiComCat]

I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.

I never said it was dumb to value them however you want.  That's up to you.  That seed statistic is dumb though and proves the opposite of your point if anything.  A 9 seed getting essentially the same path as a 2 seed is flukey. 

[Trim]

This is all good prep for analyzing the press release announcing oscar’s retention or assuming there isn’t one for a non-event, oscar’s bio in next year’s media guide.

[Shooter Jones]

I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.

I never said it was dumb to value them however you want.  That's up to you.  That seed statistic is dumb though and proves the opposite of your point if anything.  A 9 seed getting essentially the same path as a 2 seed is flukey.

The first two rounds, but the Sweet 16 was more flukey in 2010 (if flukey is the word we're seriously running with)

2018 played a 5 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 4... and 2010 played a 6 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 3.

[Shooter Jones]

This is all good prep for analyzing the press release announcing oscar’s retention or assuming there isn’t one for a non-event, oscar’s bio in next year’s media guide.

It's so losery that we are arguing value of Elite 8 appearances to begin with. BUT, members of the fan base actually valuing one Elite 8 over another (while also hinting regular season/conference results don't mean anything. But they do for seeding? LOL?) is why they should not be apart of the conversation on retaining a coach or not.

Either way, I don't think there's a single person here that believes oscar deserves another year.

[wetwillie]

When you earn a 9 seed, every team you play in the tournament typically is going to have had a better season than you did. That's not bad luck.

Lots of 8 seeds are the 4th best team in kenpom

[ChiComCat]

I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.

I never said it was dumb to value them however you want.  That's up to you.  That seed statistic is dumb though and proves the opposite of your point if anything.  A 9 seed getting essentially the same path as a 2 seed is flukey.

The first two rounds, but the Sweet 16 was more flukey in 2010 (if flukey is the word we're seriously running with)

2018 played a 5 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 4... and 2010 played a 6 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 3.

Well once you discount the biggest upset in NCAA history, yeah the runs get similar.  In all honesty, the Kentucky win might be the best tournament win KSU has had in a long time.  The rest of the run was against trash.

I think totally reasonable people can value E8s the same.  That's a different conversation from using seeding to say the two runs are equal.

[Shooter Jones]

That's a different conversation from using seeding to say the two runs are equal.

I'm not sure why people think K-State would've lost to Virginia, simple math shows K-State would've beat Virginia by 27! So, going 8 seed, 1 seed, 5 seed, would've been a lot of fun. Either way....

2010 vs. 2018
15 seed = 16 seed
7 seed = 8 seed
6 seed = 5 seed

Looks kind of equal.

[ChiComCat]

They are very close to equal.  One team earned the right to play a 15 and one team got the luckiest break in the history of the NCAA tournament to face the 16.

[wetwillie]

one team got the luckiest break in the history of the NCAA tournament to face the 16.

Stuck the landing on that Pommel Horse routine bravo bravo

[MakeItRain]

I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.

I never said it was dumb to value them however you want.  That's up to you.  That seed statistic is dumb though and proves the opposite of your point if anything.  A 9 seed getting essentially the same path as a 2 seed is flukey.

The first two rounds, but the Sweet 16 was more flukey in 2010 (if flukey is the word we're seriously running with)

2018 played a 5 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 4... and 2010 played a 6 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 3.

Well once you discount the biggest upset in NCAA history, yeah the runs get similar.  In all honesty, the Kentucky win might be the best tournament win KSU has had in a long time.  The rest of the run was against trash.

I think totally reasonable people can value E8s the same.  That's a different conversation from using seeding to say the two runs are equal.

Wait a damn minute? The rest of the run? The rest of the run was oscar and the boys winning a game against a 9 seed we were underdogs against and most of this insane anti-oscar board thought we would lose. That was followed by beating the team that just beat the #1 team in the country by almost 30 points. That game was in no way looked at like it was a sure thing, this was four years ago, it's real easy to get the receipts on this. And yes, you're right, the Kentucky win was K-State's best tournament win since the Oregon State win in 1981 or whenever it was.

Calling those first two wins trash is hilariously bad, but those things happen when you're painted into the corner of trying to devalue an elite 8 run at Kansas State.