firebrucewebernow.com

[Trim]

If we’re excusing his approach to COVID, and we have so far, he should be fired in the tunnel after the next home loss.

[pissclams]

charisma is one thing
yeast is another

[stunted]

Things definitely feel way worse than it should be. It’s time to stop

[Spracne]

lol. You losers ain't firing oscar the oscar.

[wetwillie]

lol. You losers ain't firing oscar the oscar.

No Gene will do it on our behalf

[Shooter Jones]

Been out scored by 119 in conference play.

-14.5 per game, not per loss, that’s per game, and it could honestly get worse.

[chum1]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/eli-manning-was-an-all-time-average-qb/

[MakeItRain]

K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

It's a statically correct one, with no opinion baked into it. The burden is on you at least try to prove that it's dumb. If you make the argument I think you'll make just know that it will ultimately be an indictment on frank for never winning a conference championship tho.

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

I'm not sure I'd want to be defending any side that essentially calls a conference championship or elite 8 a fluke.

[MakeItRain]

oscar just doesn't have the charisma of someone like LHC Bill Snyder.

Great post.

[michigancat]

K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

It's a statically correct one, with no opinion baked into it. The burden is on you at least try to prove that it's dumb. If you make the argument I think you'll make just know that it will ultimately be an indictment on frank for never winning a conference championship tho.

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

I'm not sure I'd want to be defending any side that essentially calls a conference championship or elite 8 a fluke.

Great teams get high seeds and are rewarded by playing worse teams. oscar got lucky to play those seeds in 2018, Frank earned it in 2010.

I agree the conference titles weren't flukes though. I've been consistent in saying that they matter more than oscar's crappy (and great!) tourney appearances

[BIG APPLE CAT]

Yes in 2010 the cats played chalk every game except they played a 6 seed instead of a 3... so 3 points more than the hardest possible average seed you can play as a 2 seed.  The ‘18 cats let’s see...+15 points just in one game. But hey it’s an average seed of 9.6 vs 9.3 so like, same thing

[wetwillie]

It’s remarkable seeing otherwise intelligent people do mental gymnastics to avoid giving oscar credit for his success here.   He got into the dance in 2014 as a 9 seed and got the national runner up as an 8 seed in the first round.  The tournament is a crap shoot, the only thing you can ask of a coach is to get there consistently.  What you can’t do is recruit a P5 worthy class once in the span of 4 years, you can’t coach your way out of that.

[sys]

the kenpoms for both those teams and their opponents also tell a slightly different story.

[wetwillie]

the kenpoms for both those teams and their opponents also tell a slightly different story.

What does the kenpom say for 18-19 vs 09-10?

[Trim]

K-State went 14-4 in both Big 12 Championship seasons. Since the round robin started, 14-4 wins the conference 5 out of 9 times, multiple times it wins it outright. Having someone else "eff it up elsewhere" has very little to do with it.

No coach at K-State has even come remotely close to those 2 conference seasons at K-State in 30+ years.

Not just anyone else, the squawks and their however many sta1ght.  We, like others who'd tied them in the past and like tech who finished ahead of them the other time, benefited from their ineptitude those years.

I probably erred in mixing the flukey and asterisk-y adjectives.  The E8, in a vacuum, is more flukey because it came to be in large part due to the only 16 beating a 1 ever.  What I'm taking about more is how I view the 2 accomplishments that are used and will be used to justify oscar's current and next employment - the E8 and the 2 conference championships. 

While the E8 was flukey, a lot of E8's can be flukey.  An E8 may not carry much weight to hiring people anyway because they know that inherently they can be flukey.  It's 3 wins in a tournament that is popular because of upsets and bracket pools.

As a hiring person in an imaginary world where I'd even look at oscar, I'd side-eye more the 2 'ships, because 1/5 of the teams in the league won "it" those years, the first being with the prior staff's players and the second when ku was historically bad.  Each was followed by an immediate ncaa tourney flame-out and thereafter the program got blown to hell (separately, twice!).

He will present and be presented as 2-time Big 12 Champion oscar weber, and it's up to whoever has to hire and pay him to decide what weight that carries.

Everyone do whatever you want.

[sys]

What does the kenpom say for 18-19 vs 09-10?

the '10 team was better?

[tdaver]

K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom

[wetwillie]

What does the kenpom say for 18-19 vs 09-10?

the '10 team was better?

I was thinking they were very similar but that the 18-19 team was slightly better defensively.   Looks like the 09-10 team was considerably better on offense and slightly worse on defense. 

[michigancat]

It’s remarkable seeing otherwise intelligent people do mental gymnastics to avoid giving oscar credit for his success here.

Who?

[MakeItRain]

K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom

You don't think I knew the accomplishments of those teams when I posted that? When taken into historical context those teams will be looked like the same damn team. Neither won a conference title and both made runs to the elite 8 and lost to teams they should have beaten when they got there. If you want to say the '10 team was better because they had a better kenpom then you have to give in to the fact that they also underachieved, for the entire season. A team with a kempom of 6 had no business losing 8 games and have their season ended by a 5 loss horizon league team.

I don't want to look at the '10 team as underachievers so I'm going to continue to remember them like I do the '18 team, two fun teams that played two of the most entertaining sweet 16 games we've ever seen but went ice cold when they were one step away.

For the record the '19 team, with the exact same players as the '18 team, was the best team we've had since the '88 team.

[MakeItRain]

It’s remarkable seeing otherwise intelligent people do mental gymnastics to avoid giving oscar credit for his success here.

Who?

Trim definitely, chi possibly

[MakeItRain]

K-State went 14-4 in both Big 12 Championship seasons. Since the round robin started, 14-4 wins the conference 5 out of 9 times, multiple times it wins it outright. Having someone else "eff it up elsewhere" has very little to do with it.

No coach at K-State has even come remotely close to those 2 conference seasons at K-State in 30+ years.

Not just anyone else, the squawks and their however many sta1ght.  We, like others who'd tied them in the past and like tech who finished ahead of them the other time, benefited from their ineptitude those years.

I probably erred in mixing the flukey and asterisk-y adjectives.  The E8, in a vacuum, is more flukey because it came to be in large part due to the only 16 beating a 1 ever.  What I'm taking about more is how I view the 2 accomplishments that are used and will be used to justify oscar's current and next employment - the E8 and the 2 conference championships. 

While the E8 was flukey, a lot of E8's can be flukey.  An E8 may not carry much weight to hiring people anyway because they know that inherently they can be flukey.  It's 3 wins in a tournament that is popular because of upsets and bracket pools.

As a hiring person in an imaginary world where I'd even look at oscar, I'd side-eye more the 2 'ships, because 1/5 of the teams in the league won "it" those years, the first being with the prior staff's players and the second when ku was historically bad.  Each was followed by an immediate ncaa tourney flame-out and thereafter the program got blown to hell (separately, twice!).

He will present and be presented as 2-time Big 12 Champion oscar weber, and it's up to whoever has to hire and pay him to decide what weight that carries.

Everyone do whatever you want.

He turns 65 before the next season starts, safe to say that if he gets another job coaching whenever he's done here, the merits or lack thereof of his elite 8s and conference championships will be secondary.

[Trim]

It’s remarkable seeing otherwise intelligent people do mental gymnastics to avoid giving oscar credit for his success here.

Who?

Trim definitely, chi possibly

I give oscar no credit, but I don't think I'm "avoiding" giving him credit or doing any mental gymnastics.  I simply give him no credit for the reasons I stated.  Fortunately for oscar, my evaluation hasn't mattered and won't!

He turns 65 before the next season starts, safe to say that if he gets another job coaching whenever he's done here, the merits or lack thereof of his elite 8s and conference championships will be secondary.

Should've added "retain" to "hire."  They'll be considered by gene.  They shouldn't.  He'll have lost The Streak.  If he somehow keeps The Streak, he should stay.  He's doing exactly what's expected.

Again, that's all assuming he shouldn't have already been fired for being out standing on the court with a mask on his chin.

[Trim]

Did anyone here go to a 2018 tournament game?

[tdaver]

K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom

You don't think I knew the accomplishments of those teams when I posted that? When taken into historical context those teams will be looked like the same damn team.
...
For the record the '19 team, with the exact same players as the '18 team, was the best team we've had since the '88 team.

Historical context?  Who cares!  We’re kstate fans talking recent kstate hoops that we all experienced together.  Most of us like 2010 more than the 2018 because they were a much better team.  Period.  But that’s not to say we didn’t enjoy the hell out of that 2018 run as well.

If you want to say 2019 isn’t appreciated enough because of oscar, that’s an argument I can agree with.