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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: gE_Temp on February 28, 2016, 01:25:58 PM

Title: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on February 28, 2016, 01:25:58 PM
This was emailed to me this morning.

firebrucewebernow.com (http://firebrucewebernow.com)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on February 28, 2016, 01:27:49 PM
Someone is a goddamn hero.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: steve dave on February 28, 2016, 01:36:31 PM
Yes
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 28, 2016, 01:52:07 PM
Surprised there's no video of oscar going nutso physical on Brown.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Panjandrum on February 28, 2016, 02:32:40 PM
This is doing God's work.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on February 28, 2016, 02:34:36 PM
Guy on twitter said that the creator needs to add a petition to the site.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: bones129 on February 28, 2016, 02:36:40 PM
Guy on twitter said that the creator needs to add a petition to the site.

 :thumbs:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 28, 2016, 03:00:13 PM
:happydance
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pvegs on February 28, 2016, 03:00:45 PM
 :excited:
Title: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on February 28, 2016, 03:16:40 PM
Was it ksu_FBWN?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 28, 2016, 03:50:31 PM
I love that del tremens tweet
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SdK on February 28, 2016, 04:28:19 PM
Delirium tremens?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on February 28, 2016, 05:33:19 PM
I had a glass of it after seeing that tweet today
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 28, 2016, 05:33:33 PM
It seems so clear when laid out logically.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on February 28, 2016, 05:35:47 PM
:love:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on February 28, 2016, 05:39:27 PM
Very well done.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on February 28, 2016, 05:46:24 PM
I love that del tremens tweet
He has me blocked, apparently.  What did it say?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on February 28, 2016, 05:56:16 PM

I love that del tremens tweet
He has me blocked, apparently.  What did it say?


Del Tremens
Del Tremens –  [email protected]_Tremens_

John Currie is quite familiar with what can fit in a plastic bag, having tied one around the head of the #kstate men's basketball program.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on February 28, 2016, 05:57:16 PM
:thumbs:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Boondock Poonhound on February 28, 2016, 06:17:15 PM
This was emailed to me this morning.

firebrucewebernow.com (http://firebrucewebernow.com)

surely someone has emailed this to JC. Just to make sure he has analyzed the trajectory chart.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on February 28, 2016, 06:18:07 PM
It's been tweeted at him a bagillion times
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: KST8FAN on February 28, 2016, 07:12:43 PM
It's been tweeted at him a bagillion times
When does the Animal reply?

Tom
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on February 28, 2016, 07:13:09 PM
It's been tweeted at him a bagillion times
When does the Animal reply?

Tom
#Blocked

:dunno:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Lucas Scoopsalot on February 28, 2016, 07:40:48 PM
This is very well done. I'm impressed.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ednksu on February 28, 2016, 07:41:21 PM
How I felt watching the K-State Reborn video and thinking about how it has been stolen from us....
(http://i.imgur.com/HFkky70.gif)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 28, 2016, 07:43:23 PM
I don't think the creator knows what "mediocrity" means. This team is not mediocre, it's bad.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: memphis on February 28, 2016, 07:49:00 PM
I don't think the creator knows what "mediocrity" means. This team is not mediocre, it's bad.

What if you compared it to every other D1 program?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 28, 2016, 07:50:07 PM
I don't think the creator knows what "mediocrity" means. This team is not mediocre, it's bad.

What if you compared it to every other D1 program?
LOL
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on February 28, 2016, 08:11:25 PM

Was it ksu_FBWN?

I can't take credit, but I was asked if trajectory charts could be used and I was happy to add my small contribution.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: PIPE on February 28, 2016, 08:46:14 PM
I love that site. Can a person sign up and become a member or something?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on February 28, 2016, 10:20:20 PM
if we fire him and don't hire underwood, it will be another 4-5 years before we can try again.

 :ohno:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: HELLHAMMER on February 29, 2016, 08:10:02 AM
I hope Trim doesn't see this.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 29, 2016, 08:13:47 AM
if we fire him and don't hire underwood, it will be another 4-5 years before we can try again.

 :ohno:

Yeah, but if we don't fire him, it will be even longer.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on February 29, 2016, 10:20:52 PM
Need to make BringUnderwoodHome.com, I think we could get more people behind it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: #LIFE on March 01, 2016, 10:34:14 AM
Quote
I for one would like to know what coach people feel could have come in this year and did better with this team??
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 01, 2016, 10:36:16 AM
Nothing on that site justifies firing oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 01, 2016, 10:36:55 AM
Is that quote referencing this specific ball sucking team, or last year's team that had some actual talent?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on March 01, 2016, 11:14:59 AM
Nothing on that site justifies firing oscar.

fbwn.com: Currie, you said something one time!

Currie: Yep.

fbwn.com: Look at these pictures of oscar Weber looking goofy. Just look at them!!!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on March 01, 2016, 11:36:37 AM

Nothing on that site justifies firing oscar.

fbwn.com: Currie, you said something one time!

Currie: Yep.

fbwn.com: Look at these pictures of oscar Weber looking goofy. Just look at them!!!

The "trajectory" thing of Deb vs oscar could be huge if done properly.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 01, 2016, 11:37:36 AM
The "gallery" section is hurting the cause, imo. 
Title: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on March 01, 2016, 11:43:56 AM
Does Deb Patterson have an actionable case of discrimination against John Currie?  I mean, if oscar isn't fired, Could she?  Maybe she won't "win" the case, but couldn't she bring quite a bit of unwanted attention to John Currie?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cartierfor3 on March 01, 2016, 11:47:32 AM
If I were Deb I'd be lawyering up as we speak Pete.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on March 01, 2016, 11:51:13 AM

Nothing on that site justifies firing oscar.

fbwn.com: Currie, you said something one time!

Currie: Yep.

fbwn.com: Look at these pictures of oscar Weber looking goofy. Just look at them!!!

The "trajectory" thing of Deb vs oscar could be huge if done properly.

I don't see how. Currie doesn't have to agree with the comparison between the two situations. Even if he does agree, he doesn't have to be consistent. And the appearance of inconsistency doesn't seem like it could do something like cause a PR nightmare for him because no one really cares whether or not he's consisent on that front.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: meow meow on March 01, 2016, 11:52:57 AM
Deb did a lot more for K-State than oscar has, fact.

Also, although funny, the photo gallery on the website probably doesn't help the seriousness of our cause.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 01, 2016, 11:59:49 AM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: meow meow on March 01, 2016, 12:01:35 PM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cire on March 01, 2016, 12:14:44 PM
need a grassroots currie is a raging sexist sob.  Contact ACLU or something.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 01, 2016, 12:17:41 PM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: meow meow on March 01, 2016, 12:28:47 PM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:

 :flush: :flush:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: meow meow on March 01, 2016, 12:32:12 PM
Hey _BBB, can you change this shirt to our guy, k-state flag, etc?

http://textualtees.com/products/underwood-2016-tee-shirt?dfw_tracker=4173-1120648497#.VtXf6NHna70
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 01, 2016, 01:09:50 PM
Are we still mad that the basketball coaching job was given to someone who'd just demonstrated utter failure at basketball coaching?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Tobias on March 01, 2016, 01:16:35 PM
if we're really being honest with ourselves, nelson galle's days should be numbered
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 01, 2016, 03:01:58 PM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

no.  it is to negotiate with and hire brad underwood to coach kstate men's bball.  if successful, weber can be fired or demoted or whatever. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 01, 2016, 03:10:58 PM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

no.  it is to negotiate with and hire brad underwood to coach kstate men's bball.  if successful, weber can be fired or demoted or whatever. 

Achieving that goal should be the plot of hot tub time machine 3.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 01, 2016, 03:23:26 PM
You have to ask, who does oscar resemble more at this point? And which direction is he headed?

(http://goEMAW.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/KState-Road-Coaches.png)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Skipper44 on March 01, 2016, 03:34:22 PM
I can absolutely see oscar bugging out for a valley school if we get a new AD.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 01, 2016, 03:40:32 PM
Underwood was a P5 assistant for 7 years and now has 4 years of D1 head coaching experience. 

Some of the reasoning for not considering him is pure idiocy.   With that said options need to be explored.   But nothing is going to change under oscar Weber.   The fact that some are pinning their hopes on a weaker Big 12 elevating Kstate is just another indication of how bad Weber really is.   
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: #LIFE on March 01, 2016, 03:56:48 PM
Quote
I think the future looks very promising, with a solid freshman class this year and a couple of excellent recruits set to come in next season.  Now if only those dead set on running our coach out of town will pipe down and let that have a chance to be.

We had a very young team this year and a key injury that hurt us terribly, plus we had four heartbreaking losses that could have torn the guts out of a lesser squad.  If  those 3 overtime conference defeats & the North Carolina game had gone the other way, as they very easily could have, we'd be talking a minimum of 22 wins and probably a tourney-bound team.

Give us another year's experience and an infusion of some highly-rated newcomers, combined with key losses to other conference schools' teams, and I'm predicting that 23-24-25 win bunch of Wildcats that challenges for the league title next season.  I'm not a sunshine pumper.  I just think oscar deserves a chance to coach these youngsters that he recruited for another year or two. 
Please, 'Cat fans, quit bashing the coach and just get behind your team.  The negativity is a very destructive force.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on March 01, 2016, 04:03:20 PM
Lots of things to consider, that's for sure.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 01, 2016, 04:13:30 PM
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 01, 2016, 04:14:06 PM
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 01, 2016, 04:26:54 PM
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

who would fire him? Kirk Schultz?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ednksu on March 01, 2016, 05:15:05 PM
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

who would fire him? Kirk Schultz?
well if this Schultz, guy has a line with the animal I hope be pushes that.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 01, 2016, 05:18:39 PM
he is no longer named the animal.  he doesn't deserve that nickname anymore.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 01, 2016, 05:18:58 PM
Guys, look at Schultz.  This caring about sports thing is new, and probably a fad.  I mean, he likes trolling ku fans on twitter in football, but he probably doesn't really even care about the football. 

Currie is ours until he doesn't want to be.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 01, 2016, 05:33:51 PM
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

who would fire him? Kirk Schultz?
well if this Schultz, guy has a line with the animal I hope be pushes that.

oh eff did I spell his name wrong and you got confused?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: slobber on March 01, 2016, 06:21:17 PM
How long before Schulz retires?


Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cire on March 01, 2016, 07:00:53 PM
2025


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: slobber on March 01, 2016, 07:53:53 PM
Crap


Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 09:29:04 AM
Trajectory was never my word. That's Currie's word. If precedent is set, he needs to look at his use of the word.

(http://goEMAW.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/oscar-trajectory.png)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 09:33:33 AM
i guess cur-dog just feels as though 18 years = valid sample size versus a 4 year trajectory
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 09:37:39 AM
i guess cur-dog just feels as though 18 years = valid sample size versus a 4 year trajectory


Trends are trends. The more Weber coaches, the more he loses and he makes fewer NCAA trips.

I guess he could jump back up to that 60-70% winning percentage suddenly. I mean, why wouldn't he repeat those first 3 years he had at Illinois?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 09:41:31 AM
i guess cur-dog just feels as though 18 years = valid sample size versus a 4 year trajectory


Trends are trends. The more Weber coaches, the more he loses and he makes fewer NCAA trips.

I guess he could jump back up to that 60-70% winning percentage suddenly. I mean, why wouldn't he repeat those first 3 years he had at Illinois?

you're right, trends are nothing more than trends; they're only a part of a larger data set.
the greater data set tells us that oscar is going to get to the tournament 55% of the time.

at k-state he's at 50% and anyone with eyes expect us to be better next year with a good opportunity to get back into the ncaas.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 09:44:31 AM
at k-state he's at 50% and anyone with eyes expect us to be better next year with a good opportunity to get back into the ncaas.

True. And I have no doubt he'll get next year to prove that can be done.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 09:55:39 AM
i don't want to be in a place defending oscar because i hate him but when the riptide that is goEMAW decides to throw their collective weight behind someone whom i don't believe can at least deliver the success that oscar can, we need to start objectively examining the frying pan that we find ourselves in.  and that's not what's going on here lately.

if you think so little of our program today that you feel that brad underwood is our best option over a coach who delivers ncaa bids at a near 60% rate, what do you think the perception of the program will be after pushing oscar out in short order, and then brad if he fails?  because odds are very high that he won't have the success that oscar had.

so in a period of 12-14 years we will have churned huggs, frank, oscar and brad.  if i'm an up and coming coaching prospect, i'm looking for stability and k-state isn't it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: #LIFE on March 02, 2016, 10:00:52 AM
Huggs and Frank did fine here and are doing fine elsewhere now. I don't buy that other coaches think oscar is a great coach, no matter how much they sling that crap to the media. I don't see anyone saying, "oh no, they fired the great oscar weber I better stay away from there"
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 10:02:09 AM
i don't want to be in a place defending oscar because i hate him but when the riptide that is goEMAW decides to throw their collective weight behind someone whom i don't believe can at least deliver the success that oscar can, we need to start objectively examining the frying pan that we find ourselves in.  and that's not what's going on here lately.

if you think so little of our program today that you feel that brad underwood is our best option over a coach who delivers ncaa bids at a near 60% rate, what do you think the perception of the program will be after pushing oscar out in short order, and then brad if he fails?  because odds are very high that he won't have the success that oscar had.

so in a period of 12-14 years we will have churned huggs, frank, oscar and brad.  if i'm an up and coming coaching prospect, i'm looking for stability and k-state isn't it.

But what is K-State basketball now? Isn't that pretty much it?

Since Hartman we've had 7 coaches in 30 years. No coach has been here longer than 6 years. Its not like we're showing to be some destination job anyway.

I'm willing to go after Brad because he has been really successful where he's at (I fully realize its in a low major conference), he has been here as an assistant recently while we were winning at a high level, AND he's got K-State ties. If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

JMHO.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 10:10:02 AM
Huggs and Frank did fine here and are doing fine elsewhere now. I don't buy that other coaches think oscar is a great coach, no matter how much they sling that crap to the media. I don't see anyone saying, "oh no, they fired the great oscar weber I better stay away from there"

This is a part of why I don't want oscar to be fired.  Right now, the perception and reality of KSU's hoops problem is that they mumped up in running frank and hiring 2012 national laughingstock oscar.  So of course this is happening and that's just what KSU gets for that one incredibly dumb series of events in 2012.  If oscar gets run and currie hires greenberg or whoever he'd find willing to fill the oscar role and keep sucking, eventually perception will solidify that the KSU job was, is and always will be mumped and that frank was an anomaly.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 10:15:24 AM
Well, you are in the minority that doesn't want what's best for K-State. So there's that. You'd rather feel good about a grievance of a "I told you so" than have the cats be good at sports. You follow around transfer players like you know them. it's kinda weird.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 10:34:23 AM
If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

it's pretty amazing that you believe that.

scott drew, 14 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 36%, 0 b12 champys
bill self, 23 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 77%, 12 big 12 champys
shaka, 6 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 83%, 0 b12 champys
lon, 29 years, 16 ncaa appearances, 55%, 0 b12 champys
travis ford, 16 years, 6 ncaa appearances, 38%, 0 b12 champys
prohm, 4 years, 1 ncaa appearance, 25%, 0 b12 champys
tubby, 25 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys
trent johnson, 17 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 29%, 0 b12 champys
huggs, 31 years, 21 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Whale on March 02, 2016, 11:05:00 AM
I don't like watching cat games and hearing the broadcasters beginning to use "It's hard to win in / recruit to Manhattan" again.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 11:08:53 AM
I don't like watching cat games and hearing the broadcasters beginning to use "It's hard to win in / recruit to Manhattan" again.

That's just simpleton media types.  I don't believe confident coaching prospects think that.  It was all within the last decade that they saw that's an absurd statement, and now KSU theoretically has even more tools for someone good to recruit with.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: catzacker on March 02, 2016, 11:12:35 AM
LOL at including the ncaa tourney appearances [or lack thereof] for the portions of their coaching careers outside the P5. Or Baylor's probation.

Jesus. Illinois had missed the the ncaa's twice in the previous 11 years before oscar got there and missed the postseason entirely only once in that time. Then oscar gets there and in 9yrs missed the ncaa's 3 times and the postseason twice.

KSU's shitty program hadn't missed a postseason in the previous 6 years, missed the ncaa twice.....and within 4 rough ridin' years oscar has missed the ncaa's twice and probably the postseason twice.

For eff sake.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 11:14:08 AM
If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

it's pretty amazing that you believe that.

scott drew, 14 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 36%, 0 b12 champys
bill self, 23 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 77%, 12 big 12 champys
shaka, 6 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 83%, 0 b12 champys
lon, 29 years, 16 ncaa appearances, 55%, 0 b12 champys
travis ford, 16 years, 6 ncaa appearances, 38%, 0 b12 champys
prohm, 4 years, 1 ncaa appearance, 25%, 0 b12 champys
tubby, 25 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys
trent johnson, 17 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 29%, 0 b12 champys
huggs, 31 years, 21 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys

oscar is probably ahead of Johnson and even with Ford right now on my ranking of Big 12 coaches. Everyone else is ahead of him. The guy he's even with will likely get fired this year. The last 10 years is what oscar is at this level. I will give him credit for building Southern Illinois back up, but he inherited an ideal situation with his roster at Illinois. Since then, he's been a mediocre P5  (not terrible) coach, but the face he makes for a program is subpar at best.

As a result, I'm willing to take a chance on Brad. I think he can win here.

FWIW, I will admit that Brad isn't my first choice. If Currie could hire any realistic candidate I would want him to hire Sampson.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 02, 2016, 11:15:56 AM
If Brad sucks, we just fire him, too. We are only as good as the coach we accept.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 11:16:14 AM
I don't like watching cat games and hearing the broadcasters beginning to use "It's hard to win in / recruit to Manhattan" again.

the bigger issue we may have is coaches trusting in their boss
there's no doubt curr-dog threw frank and his players under the bus then threw romero under the bus and it's not a good look. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 11:19:32 AM
If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

it's pretty amazing that you believe that.

scott drew, 14 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 36%, 0 b12 champys
bill self, 23 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 77%, 12 big 12 champys
shaka, 6 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 83%, 0 b12 champys
lon, 29 years, 16 ncaa appearances, 55%, 0 b12 champys
travis ford, 16 years, 6 ncaa appearances, 38%, 0 b12 champys
prohm, 4 years, 1 ncaa appearance, 25%, 0 b12 champys
tubby, 25 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys
trent johnson, 17 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 29%, 0 b12 champys
huggs, 31 years, 21 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys

oscar is probably ahead of Johnson and even with Ford right now on my ranking of Big 12 coaches. Everyone else is ahead of him. The guy he's even with will likely get fired this year. The last 10 years is what oscar is at this level. I will give him credit for building Southern Illinois back up, but he inherited an ideal situation with his roster at Illinois. Since then, he's been a mediocre P5  (not terrible) coach, but the face he makes for a program is subpar at best.

As a result, I'm willing to take a chance on Brad. I think he can win here.

FWIW, I will admit that Brad isn't my first choice. If Currie could hire any realistic candidate I would want him to hire Sampson.

for a stats guy it's just weird that you've chosen to ignore the data that says differently.
essentially you're saying that you believe brad will be a HOF coach, because lon, seff, huggs, and tubby will all be there.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 11:20:07 AM
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

How many does he have so far?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 11:21:24 AM
for a stats guy it's just weird that you've chosen to ignore the data that says differently.
essentially you're saying that you believe brad will be a HOF coach, because lon, seff, huggs, and tubby will all be there.

I don't remember saying that.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 11:22:15 AM
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

How many does he have so far?
Just oscar. CC is going to slam Mittie in your fat face, Rage!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 11:23:30 AM
for a stats guy it's just weird that you've chosen to ignore the data that says differently.
essentially you're saying that you believe brad will be a HOF coach, because lon, seff, huggs, and tubby will all be there.

I don't remember saying that.

you said brad would do at least as good as oscar.  the coaches who've had greater success than oscar are all going to be in the hof.  ya, i'm extrapolating but
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ednksu on March 02, 2016, 11:24:08 AM
i don't want to be in a place defending oscar because i hate him but when the riptide that is goEMAW decides to throw their collective weight behind someone whom i don't believe can at least deliver the success that oscar can, we need to start objectively examining the frying pan that we find ourselves in.  and that's not what's going on here lately.

if you think so little of our program today that you feel that brad underwood is our best option over a coach who delivers ncaa bids at a near 60% rate, what do you think the perception of the program will be after pushing oscar out in short order, and then brad if he fails?  because odds are very high that he won't have the success that oscar had.

so in a period of 12-14 years we will have churned huggs, frank, oscar and brad.  if i'm an up and coming coaching prospect, i'm looking for stability and k-state isn't it.

But what is K-State basketball now? Isn't that pretty much it?

Since Hartman we've had 7 coaches in 30 years. No coach has been here longer than 6 years. Its not like we're showing to be some destination job anyway.

I'm willing to go after Brad because he has been really successful where he's at (I fully realize its in a low major conference), he has been here as an assistant recently while we were winning at a high level, AND he's got K-State ties. If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

JMHO.
I was just thinking in response to Piss that K-State actually looks better because we wait longer than we should on coaching changes, in fact it's too stable.  I don't know enough about the years before Wooly like you two.  We know for sure Wooly was given an extra year on a hail mary.  Arguably he got 2 extra.  Huggs said he would have stayed here to retire if WVU hadn't called, if you can believe that.  Frank was long term and the exception to my point because it wasn't a stable relationship.  But that again can be directed towards something other than K-State not being a good job since he arguably took a step down to leave.  Also if fan support brings in a coach, like Underwood, it would be hard for Currie to fire him (also a bitch to hire him admittedly).  Weber is another example of a coach being here at least a year too long because fans are valuing stability and vanilla over wins and success, a recipe for mediocre success and stability.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 11:24:21 AM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:

Could you cliffnotes your reasoning for wanting Currie fired?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: memphis on March 02, 2016, 11:24:54 AM
P clams, just how big of a pickle is cats bball in?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 11:26:03 AM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:

Could you cliffnotes your reasoning for wanting Currie fired?
:bwpopcorn:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 02, 2016, 11:27:02 AM
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

How many does he have so far?

One. Firing oscar would give the opportunity for two. How often does an AD get to make more than two failed hires in a revenue-generating sport?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 11:27:29 AM
P clams, just how big of a pickle is cats bball in?
no one really knows right now. 
oscar is polarizing.  his stupid crap gets forgotten when we do well, it's exemplified when we suck (the same is true about all coaches, oscar just has a larger sample size of stupid crap to pick from).
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 11:29:54 AM
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

How many does he have so far?

One. Firing oscar would give the opportunity for two. How often does an AD get to make more than two failed hires in a revenue-generating sport?
Ask Missouri.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 11:34:31 AM
Saying an AD should be fired for one bad hire is rough ridin' stupid and I don't care how bad the AD is. BTW, he's definitely not a bad AD.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 11:39:06 AM
Also, I want oscar gone, but I appreciate that our AD just doesn't fire coaches left and right, like KU football, to the point where no coach wants to pick up the phone.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 11:41:54 AM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:

Could you cliffnotes your reasoning for wanting Currie fired?

No.  Cliffnotes are for cheaters.  You'll be tested on the original material.

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=6

http://goEMAW.com/archives/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=42
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWican on March 02, 2016, 11:45:10 AM
The average worker stays at their job 4.4 years according to the BLS. So in 2 months time oscar's stay here is above average.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 11:48:25 AM
P clams, just how big of a pickle is cats bball in?
no one really knows right now. 
oscar is polarizing.  his stupid crap gets forgotten when we do well, it's exemplified when we suck (the same is true about all coaches, oscar just has a larger sample size of stupid crap to pick from).

Yes, this is why I dislike him so much. Its nice to have a coach that can maintain some fairly likable characteristics even in times of struggle and oscar doesn't do that for me. Neither did Tom.

you said brad would do at least as good as oscar.  the coaches who've had greater success than oscar are all going to be in the hof.  ya, i'm extrapolating but

To be fair, I was making a qualified judgement of what "oscar" was; meaning what I've seen from oscar sans inherited rosters. Ie, minus his first 2 years at Illinois and his first year here, which is definitely not HOF material. That's probably not completely fair, but I don't care.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWican on March 02, 2016, 11:48:57 AM
I'm not going to spend the time to crunch, but in thinking through the last 10 years the average tenure of a basketball coach in the Big XII is probably around 3 years.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 11:49:30 AM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:

Could you cliffnotes your reasoning for wanting Currie fired?

No.  Cliffnotes are for cheaters.  You'll be tested on the original material.

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=6

http://goEMAW.com/archives/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=42

Pass. I will just assume it is something personal rather than any concrete reason.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 11:50:26 AM
captain, I appreciate you coming back.

FWIW, I'm not going after Currie, just oscar. I remember you being lukewarm on oscar when he was hired, where are you at now?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on March 02, 2016, 11:50:50 AM
cc, any good news about oscar getting fired tho?  :excited:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 12:00:43 PM
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:

Could you cliffnotes your reasoning for wanting Currie fired?

No.  Cliffnotes are for cheaters.  You'll be tested on the original material.

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=6

http://goEMAW.com/archives/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=42

Pass. I will just assume it is something personal rather than any concrete reason.

OK, here's some new stuff, as I see you're genuinely interested in entertaining this.  KSU is now an irrelevant bottom-feeder in the 2 sports that matter and fans are increasingly disgruntled with the experience (from court-storm'n students to squawk-hate'n oral-sex parody'n gpc'rs to diaper bag-carry'n moms).

http://www.big12sports.com/standings/Standings.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&SPID=

http://www.big12sports.com/standings/Standings.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&SPID=13139

And he hires possibly lazy bbs people.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 12:01:09 PM
captain, I appreciate you coming back.

FWIW, I'm not going after Currie, just oscar. I remember you being lukewarm on oscar when he was hired, where are you at now?

It's not who I wouldve hired, but then again, I don't have all of the info on who said no. I know of a couple guys that did, but that might not be entire list. I also could see some of the logic in why jc might have thought bw could work here. So I was pretty neutral.

Last year was very frustrating. Years before that were fun. This year is pretty meh.

Almost certain bw will be back next year. Personal opinion, next year will be make or break for me as a fan.

I also think way too many people let their personal opinions of oscar's or currie's personality dictate the opinion of their job performance.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on March 02, 2016, 12:03:09 PM

captain, I appreciate you coming back.

FWIW, I'm not going after Currie, just oscar. I remember you being lukewarm on oscar when he was hired, where are you at now?

This is kind of where I stand, I think Currie has done a lot of really good things for us
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 12:03:31 PM
I also think way too many people let their personal opinions of oscar's or currie's personality dictate the opinion of their job performance.

people did that w/ Frank, too!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 12:05:55 PM
I also think way too many people let their personal opinions of oscar's or currie's personality dictate the opinion of their job performance.

people did that w/ Frank, too!

People do it with almost every coach, unless they just win all the time.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 12:07:56 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 12:10:26 PM
Almost certain bw will be back next year. Personal opinion, next year will be make or break for me as a fan.

Honestly, this was where I was at in January, but the combination of a losing home conference slate combined with 3 years of being terrible in the conference on the road (4-32!) pushed me over the edge. And I will not use "youth" to excuse all of that.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 12:11:52 PM

OK, here's some new stuff, as I see you're genuinely interested in entertaining this.  KSU is now an irrelevant bottom-feeder in the 2 sports that matter and fans are increasingly disgruntled with the experience (from court-storm'n students to squawk-hate'n oral-sex parody'n gpc'rs to diaper bag-carry'n moms).

http://www.big12sports.com/standings/Standings.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&SPID=

http://www.big12sports.com/standings/Standings.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&SPID=13139

And he hires possibly lazy bbs people.

K-State fb was ranked in the top 10 just over 14 months ago. They have been to six straight bowl games. I would disagree that they are irrelevant or a bottom feeder. They struggled last year by Snyder standards. Might struggle again this year, who knows. Not sure why this is Currie's fault.

K-State mbb has struggled last two years. No argument. BW is Currie's hire.

I would question your data proving fans are increasingly disgruntled. The strong majority of feedback to the three things you mentioned has been positive. The intent behind all three would be pretty hard to argue with. Execution, esp in sportsmanship, could be better. But not sure why trying to get people to not chant eff is a fireable offense.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 12:23:01 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 12:25:41 PM
CC, I'm curious? Can you mention a few names who interviewed for the men's bball job? I'd love to know.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 12:26:20 PM
diaper bag-carry'n moms

When KU announces that they are joining the long list of teams adopting the clear bag policy, I wonder if their diaper bag-carry'n moms will be as vocal...
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 12:28:24 PM

OK, here's some new stuff, as I see you're genuinely interested in entertaining this.  KSU is now an irrelevant bottom-feeder in the 2 sports that matter and fans are increasingly disgruntled with the experience (from court-storm'n students to squawk-hate'n oral-sex parody'n gpc'rs to diaper bag-carry'n moms).

http://www.big12sports.com/standings/Standings.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&SPID=

http://www.big12sports.com/standings/Standings.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&SPID=13139

And he hires possibly lazy bbs people.

K-State fb was ranked in the top 10 just over 14 months ago. They have been to six straight bowl games. I would disagree that they are irrelevant or a bottom feeder. They struggled last year by Snyder standards. Might struggle again this year, who knows. Not sure why this is Currie's fault.

K-State mbb has struggled last two years. No argument. BW is Currie's hire.

I would question your data proving fans are increasingly disgruntled. The strong majority of feedback to the three things you mentioned has been positive. The intent behind all three would be pretty hard to argue with. Execution, esp in sportsmanship, could be better. But not sure why trying to get people to not chant eff is a fireable offense.

As for the sports, does Currie still use the "consistently compete for 'ships" line or did that go the way of w-l performance incentives in his last contract?  If winning in sports is no longer a goal, I'll take that off the list of things that he should be evaluated on.

I obviously don't care personally about any of the fan stuff, as it's nothing I have to deal with.  But yes, of course it's about the poor execution, not the ethics of saying "eff."

Now admittedly I don't have access to the secret feedback files, and can only rely on "the news" but maybe the execution - the thing that gets done by the employees - isn't going so well.

(http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww92/TommyRoanoke/ksu%20sportsmanship%20news_zpsvsnglr1h.jpg) (http://s709.photobucket.com/user/TommyRoanoke/media/ksu%20sportsmanship%20news_zpsvsnglr1h.jpg.html)

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 12:29:34 PM
diaper bag-carry'n moms

When KU announces that they are joining the long list of teams adopting the clear bag policy, I wonder if their diaper bag-carry'n moms will be as vocal...

Probably not, because Cheyenne Zulu - if he even needed to see how lol it would play out - will have watched how KSU mumped it up and roll it out correctly.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kitten_mittons on March 02, 2016, 12:30:24 PM
John Currie essentially fired Frank Martin for personality reasons while he was winning.  It doesn't seem too far-fetched for us to want to fire oscar for personality reasons while he is losing.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 12:31:40 PM
You don't have to explain being rational, cc. Trim is off the reservation when comes to talking about K-State. He doesn't even like them. Just someone/something he can troll on the side.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 12:33:40 PM
John Currie essentially fired Frank Martin for personality reasons while he was winning.  It doesn't seem too far-fetched for us to want to fire oscar for personality reasons while he is losing.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk



except he probably likes oscar's personality more.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 12:34:58 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.

What are the donor "type" categories?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kitten_mittons on March 02, 2016, 12:35:26 PM
I'm sure he does,  but someone said that personality isn't a reason to fire someone if they are winning,  and I'm saying that maybe John Currie disagrees with that.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 12:38:32 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.

What are the donor "type" categories?

http://www.ahearnfund.com/giving/levels/
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 12:40:00 PM
diaper bag-carry'n moms

When KU announces that they are joining the long list of teams adopting the clear bag policy, I wonder if their diaper bag-carry'n moms will be as vocal...

Probably not, because Cheyenne Zulu - if he even needed to see how lol it would play out - will have watched how KSU mumped it up and roll it out correctly.

I don't think KSU rolled out the clear bag policy incorrectly. People don't like change. When KU announces it, people will complain.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on March 02, 2016, 12:43:10 PM
I don't like how our basketball program has changed...Makes me sad.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 12:44:57 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.

What are the donor "type" categories?

http://www.ahearnfund.com/giving/levels/

Ha.  For evaluating purposes, you'd have to add a category of people who could/might donate but don't.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kitten_mittons on March 02, 2016, 12:45:31 PM
Let's list some reasons why we think oscar Weber will be able to turn around the basketball program.  I can't think of anything at the moment, but I'm sure some of you will be able to.

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Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Catchacold on March 02, 2016, 12:46:16 PM
having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

and recruiting/coaching/managing other people
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 12:46:40 PM
diaper bag-carry'n moms

When KU announces that they are joining the long list of teams adopting the clear bag policy, I wonder if their diaper bag-carry'n moms will be as vocal...

Probably not, because Cheyenne Zulu - if he even needed to see how lol it would play out - will have watched how KSU mumped it up and roll it out correctly.

I don't think KSU rolled out the clear bag policy incorrectly. People don't like change. When KU announces it, people will complain.

Quote
For fans like Hofer and Moore who have questions about diaper bags, K-State offered the following response: “Diapers and other baby supplies can be carried in a clear bag. Each member of a family, including children, would be allowed to carry an approved clear bag and a clutch purse into the venue.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article62263627.html#storylink=cpy

:lol:

You guys should have Vulture engineer up a special EMAW clear bag that attaches to the baby itself.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 02, 2016, 12:48:41 PM
I don't like how our basketball program has changed...Makes me sad.
Yep
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 02, 2016, 12:49:25 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.

What are the donor "type" categories?

http://www.ahearnfund.com/giving/levels/

Ha.  For evaluating purposes, you'd have to add a category of people who could/might donate but don't.

Do you think that category is larger or more significant than those that do?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 12:54:07 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.

What are the donor "type" categories?

http://www.ahearnfund.com/giving/levels/

Ha.  For evaluating purposes, you'd have to add a category of people who could/might donate but don't.

Do you think that category is larger or more significant than those that do?

I think it's necessary to determine how many people KSU would like to give them money actually give them money.  Not entirely sure that's indicative of whether people support Currie.  The last time I donated was to complete a credit card spend.

Of course, I agree with you that Currie is 100% successful in the statistic of actual donors to K-State donating to K-State.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: DQ12 on March 02, 2016, 01:04:47 PM
I'm fine with Currie.  BBTF and the BSFS expansions make me feel very good about him -- the Frank issue and Weber hiring were bad, but I'm willing to give him a shot at not screwing up what should be two slam dunk, common sense hires in the next 2-3 years (Venables and Underwood).  Assuming he's capable of hiring them, I think basketball and football are in great shape for the foreseeable future, especially coupled with his fundraising acumen.

I take more issue with Schulz (notably "EMAW").

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 02, 2016, 01:08:14 PM
My concern with currie would be if coaches would take issue working under him given the frank run off.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 01:09:17 PM
My concern with currie would be if coaches would take issue working under him given the frank run off.

Or Snyder talking bad to anybody that doesn't Pinkel him.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 02, 2016, 01:12:39 PM
I'm willing to go after Brad because he has been really successful where he's at (I fully realize its in a low major conference), he has been here as an assistant recently while we were winning at a high level, AND he's got K-State ties. If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

he was also very successful as a juco hc in florida.  he's been successful in three different levels of bball in three different geographic areas.  he has never not been successful.  in his current position he's been successful to a degree that is very close to unprecedented on any level of college basketball.

underwood is not just my first choice.  he's my only choice.  if kstate is too stupid to hire him, kstate can die in a house fire with all of its fans in it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kitten_mittons on March 02, 2016, 01:15:38 PM
I'm willing to go after Brad because he has been really successful where he's at (I fully realize its in a low major conference), he has been here as an assistant recently while we were winning at a high level, AND he's got K-State ties. If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

he was also very successful as a juco hc in florida.  he's been successful in three different levels of bball in three different geographic areas.  he has never not been successful.  in his current position he's been successful to a degree that is very close to unprecedented on any level of college basketball.

underwood is not just my first choice.  he's my only choice.  if kstate is too stupid to hire him, kstate can die in a house fire with all of its fans in it.
I doubt he would come here if Currie is still running the squad.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 01:17:08 PM
I'm willing to go after Brad because he has been really successful where he's at (I fully realize its in a low major conference), he has been here as an assistant recently while we were winning at a high level, AND he's got K-State ties. If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

he was also very successful as a juco hc in florida.  he's been successful in three different levels of bball in three different geographic areas.  he has never not been successful.  in his current position he's been successful to a degree that is very close to unprecedented on any level of college basketball.

underwood is not just my first choice.  he's my only choice.  if kstate is too stupid to hire him, kstate can die in a house fire with all of its fans in it.

He was 62-60 in 4 seasons at Dodge City. But you are right what he is doing at SFA is pretty much unprecedented. I mean, losing one conference game over three seasons is ridiculous.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 02, 2016, 01:17:34 PM
i don't give a crap if currie is here or not.  if he won't, or can't, hire underwood, then fire him.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: PowercatPat on March 02, 2016, 01:17:47 PM
I'm willing to go after Brad because he has been really successful where he's at (I fully realize its in a low major conference), he has been here as an assistant recently while we were winning at a high level, AND he's got K-State ties. If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

he was also very successful as a juco hc in florida.  he's been successful in three different levels of bball in three different geographic areas.  he has never not been successful.  in his current position he's been successful to a degree that is very close to unprecedented on any level of college basketball.

underwood is not just my first choice.  he's my only choice.  if kstate is too stupid to hire him, kstate can die in a house fire with all of its fans in it.
I doubt he would come here if Currie is still running the squad.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I don't think there's any way he would turn down a huge raise at his alma mater if we're hiring him from SFA. Not a chance.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 02, 2016, 01:18:49 PM
He was 62-60 in 4 seasons at Dodge City.

additional data often tends to be complicating.  i wish i hadn't been made aware of this.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 01:19:12 PM
I don't think there's any way he would turn down a huge raise at his alma mater if we're hiring him from SFA. Not a chance.

Yeah I'm pretty sure time (and $2 Mil per) heals all (or at least most) wounds.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 01:20:44 PM
Brad was 62-60 at Dodge City, but yes sys, he's been successful everywhere else.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on March 02, 2016, 01:21:56 PM
Dodge City is a notoriously easy place to win.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on March 02, 2016, 01:26:26 PM
Are we sure that Brad can win with his own players!?!?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: TownieCat on March 02, 2016, 01:27:50 PM
BU was in his 20s at DCCC. He went 70-24 at Daytona Beach CC.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 01:28:24 PM
Are we sure that Brad can win with his own players!?!?

Two of his starters and his leading scorer ARE holdovers.

However

He also starts a freshman and a sophomore (which I think is pretty rare for good teams at that level. Although I don't know this for sure because I have never paid attention to a team at that level)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: AppleJack on March 02, 2016, 01:29:07 PM
I have enjoyed this thread so far and would like to thank all participants.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on March 02, 2016, 01:35:09 PM
Are we sure that Brad can win with his own players!?!?

Two of his starters and his leading scorer ARE holdovers.

However

He also starts a freshman and a sophomore (which I think is pretty rare for good teams at that level. Although I don't know this for sure because I have never paid attention to a team at that level)

I'm pretty sure that means he can only win with other coaches' players.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 01:36:47 PM
does brad pass the ever important personality test?  he looked hungover drunk most of the time he was on our bench. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 01:37:01 PM
Are we sure that Brad can win with his own players!?!?

Two of his starters and his leading scorer ARE holdovers.

However

He also starts a freshman and a sophomore (which I think is pretty rare for good teams at that level. Although I don't know this for sure because I have never paid attention to a team at that level)

I'm pretty sure that means he can only win with other coaches' players.

we may not know for another 4 years.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on March 02, 2016, 01:56:14 PM
Brad may be an unknown as far as winning with his own players but we know oscar can't.  I don't think Brad is the incredible Huggs level hire I would dream of, but he provides a high floor if we go on a coaching search.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Winters on March 02, 2016, 02:14:43 PM
does brad pass the ever important personality test?  he looked hungover drunk most of the time he was on our bench.
That's a passing grade, imo
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 02:20:52 PM
does brad pass the ever important personality test?  he looked hungover drunk most of the time he was on our bench.
That's a passing grade, imo

i didn't say it was a bad thing  :cool:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GBEMAW on March 02, 2016, 02:22:26 PM
does brad pass the ever important personality test?  he looked hungover drunk most of the time he was on our bench.
That's a passing grade, imo

i didn't say it was a bad thing  :cool:
agreed, that is a feature, not a bug.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: hatingfrancisco on March 02, 2016, 02:23:07 PM
He was 62-60 in 4 seasons at Dodge City.

additional data often tends to be complicating.  i wish i hadn't been made aware of this.

First season was horrible, second was meh, last couple seasons were pretty good and filled with a lot of MCMW.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Skipper44 on March 02, 2016, 03:02:19 PM

I would question your data proving fans are increasingly disgruntled. The strong majority of feedback to the three things you mentioned has been positive. The intent behind all three would be pretty hard to argue with. Execution, esp in sportsmanship, could be better. But not sure why trying to get people to not chant eff is a fireable offense.
I think the decline in actual attendance at the same time new partial ticket packages and promotions have become available is a sign of gruntling.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 03:12:06 PM
http://www.bringonthecats.com/2016/3/2/11141234/bring-back-brad
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 03:17:31 PM
http://www.bringonthecats.com/2016/3/2/11141234/bring-back-brad

Come get your girl, Abe.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ednksu on March 02, 2016, 03:21:50 PM
K-State fb was ranked in the top 10 just over 14 months ago. They have been to six straight bowl games. I would disagree that they are irrelevant or a bottom feeder. They struggled last year by Snyder standards. Might struggle again this year, who knows. Not sure why this is Currie's fault.

K-State mbb has struggled last two years. No argument. BW is Currie's hire.

I would question your data proving fans are increasingly disgruntled. The strong majority of feedback to the three things you mentioned has been positive. The intent behind all three would be pretty hard to argue with. Execution, esp in sportsmanship, could be better. But not sure why trying to get people to not chant eff is a fireable offense.

Sorry to circle back to this, but I wonder if this speaks to a disconnect in the ADs office and what the fans are actually thinking. 

Sportsmanship initiatives are roundly hated by fans right now with the exception of "kids shouldn't chant the F-word."  But the vast majority are pissed that we kowtowed to no one, almost looking like we ran around with 5k trying to find someone to fine us, in particular about the Enterprise, nothing has been received well about that. To make that worse the admin then said it was because of displaying another school's mascot? People are pissed that we've taken such a hard stance on court storming, especially the multiple threats to students with legal consequences, and the poor PR stunts (video).  I mean random tool bags on GoPo started wild rumors about wanting to storm if they beat KU to stick it to the Admin because of how far things went. The best neutral you have is bag reaction which many are not happy with, especially people like North Endzoners who feel betrayed about the space claims who got so much less room.

The pulse the athletics department is wildly different than what is happening in local media, msg boards, social media outlets, and official social media outlet comments.  We all know you've been a great source of info and have often brought opinions others didn't want to hear.  I think people often miss that you are telling people the department's thought process and mistake that for your own opinion and unfairly attack you.  So I'm curious if you can shed some insight as to how the department is getting its feel of the community.  Do they believe they are getting support because of this coverage I'm not seeing?  Do they get crap loads of phone calls in support?  Are they only concerned with what big donors are telling them and they are happy?   
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 04:14:01 PM
oscar should only be fired when he is not meeting the AD's standards for a basketball program.  He is nowhere near that so he should stay, in fact in many way's he's exceeded expectations enough to earn an extension. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 04:18:43 PM
If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

it's pretty amazing that you believe that.

scott drew, 14 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 36%, 0 b12 champys
bill self, 23 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 77%, 12 big 12 champys
shaka, 6 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 83%, 0 b12 champys
lon, 29 years, 16 ncaa appearances, 55%, 0 b12 champys
travis ford, 16 years, 6 ncaa appearances, 38%, 0 b12 champys
prohm, 4 years, 1 ncaa appearance, 25%, 0 b12 champys
tubby, 25 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys
trent johnson, 17 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 29%, 0 b12 champys
huggs, 31 years, 21 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys

Interestingly, Tom Asbury at the same point in his career at KSU as oscar had 4 NCAA tourney's in 9 years. oscar is like, 11% better!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 04:36:05 PM
it gets tough when you try to compare p5 accomplishments to guys who were getting ncaa births by winning their shitty auto-qualifier conferences like tom, and brad.  and oscar!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 04:37:12 PM
Yes.   Brad could be the ksu version of oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: XocolateThundarr on March 02, 2016, 04:40:05 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.

What are the donor "type" categories?

http://www.ahearnfund.com/giving/levels/

Ha.  For evaluating purposes, you'd have to add a category of people who could/might donate but don't.

You could also add the category of people who used to donate but in light of recent events told the University to shove their Ahearn Fund up their ass.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 04:53:39 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.

What are the donor "type" categories?

http://www.ahearnfund.com/giving/levels/

Ha.  For evaluating purposes, you'd have to add a category of people who could/might donate but don't.

You could also add the category of people who used to donate but in light of recent events told the University to shove their Ahearn Fund up their ass.

That's a subset ("angrily don't") of the category I posted.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 08:38:28 PM
I hate currie because he is a liar and a rough ridin' hypocritical bad person.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 08:46:02 PM
I honestly hope oscar is at KSU for a very long time. He's the coach our fans want and deserve.  There is no reason or justification at all to fire the man.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 08:48:23 PM
I hate currie because he is a liar and a rough ridin' hypocritical bad person.
What has he lied about?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 08:50:53 PM
I hate currie because he is a liar and a rough ridin' hypocritical bad person.
What has he lied about?
nothing, some "fans" simply can't handle the real truth
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 08:54:50 PM
I hate currie because he is a liar and a rough ridin' hypocritical bad person.
What has he lied about?
i assume you are trying to troll me but it was pretty well documented how many time he lied in the case with the womens bball transfer
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Canary on March 02, 2016, 08:56:35 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.

What are the donor "type" categories?

http://www.ahearnfund.com/giving/levels/

Ha.  For evaluating purposes, you'd have to add a category of people who could/might donate but don't.

You could also add the category of people who used to donate but in light of recent events told the University to shove their Ahearn Fund up their ass.
Kind of connected - yesterday when I called to pay the Ahearn Fund for football tickets but not basketball for next year there was no reaction at all.  No question about if I was certain I would not be renewing basketball. Just seemed like they have heard that a few times.  And when I got an email telling me there was a high demand for season tickets for next year, I wondered if that was true.  Is there still a huge demand for basketball tickets?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 08:57:50 PM
I honestly hope oscar is at KSU for a very long time. He's the coach our fans want and deserve.  There is no reason or justification at all to fire the man.

weird meltydown type of post.  k-state fans don't want a coach, they want to win.  i have more confidence in our current ad to make appropriate changes if/when oscar shows he's not getting the job done, than any ad we've had in either of our lifetimes. 

it seems like the collective group think that is goEMAW has once again bonded their heads into believing that now is the time for oscar to go.  as much as we all hate him, truthfully, he gets another year.  he won the conference 3 years ago, coy 3 years ago, and has take our team to the tournament 2x out of 4 chances.  let him prove the tired talking point that he can't win with his own players, next year is his chance. 

the idea of firing him now and hiring brad underwood is ludicrous
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 08:59:33 PM
I kinda consider oscar's second year as winning with his own players. That season was all Marcus Foster.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 09:00:51 PM
I have accepted oscar will be here for one more year. I think we all should because its reality unless he just quits. I dont like him at all but if just one rough ridin' time he owned that he mumped up instead of throwing 18-22 year olds under the bus it would be a lot easier to swallow
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 09:02:39 PM
I have accepted oscar will be here for one more year. I think we all should because its reality unless he just quits. I dont like him at all but if just one rough ridin' time he owned that he mumped up instead of throwing 18-22 year olds under the bus it would be a lot easier to swallow
He'll improve next season and a even get another year. So get ready for at least two more.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 02, 2016, 09:02:50 PM
you really don't think he has a better than 50% chance of making the tourney next year?  If he makes the tourney he is getting an extension.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:02:58 PM
I honestly hope oscar is at KSU for a very long time. He's the coach our fans want and deserve.  There is no reason or justification at all to fire the man.

weird meltydown type of post.  k-state fans don't want a coach, they want to win.  i have more confidence in our current ad to make appropriate changes if/when oscar shows he's not getting the job done, than any ad we've had in either of our lifetimes. 

it seems like the collective group think that is goEMAW has once again bonded their heads into believing that now is the time for oscar to go.  as much as we all hate him, truthfully, he gets another year.  he won the conference 3 years ago, coy 3 years ago, and has take our team to the tournament 2x out of 4 chances.  let him prove the tired talking point that he can't win with his own players, next year is his chance. 

the idea of firing him now and hiring brad underwood is ludicrous
No meltdown, I agree 100%.  I also have confidence Currie will fire oscar if and when its appropriate.  I have been saying well before anyone else in the "groupthink" that oscar is here for a long time.  Of course he gets another year, to think otherwise is stupid and delusional.  It doesn't take some special mind outside of the hive to know that.  There is no way he will or should get fired.  He should be here for many years.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 09:03:45 PM
I don't think he has better than a 50% chance of making the tournament, but I don't think the administration will care if he misses it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 09:04:56 PM
Well punching chings in the face just made my list of things to do at ff16
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:05:12 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 09:05:54 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
trajectory
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:07:43 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
trajectory
(Even if I believed this cherry-picked stat) So what?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 09:08:42 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
trajectory
He will be on an upward trajectory starting next season.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 09:08:58 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
trajectory
(Even if I believed this cherry-picked stat) So what?
that makes you a sexist then, did you defend deb?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 09:09:44 PM
I hate currie because he is a liar and a rough ridin' hypocritical bad person.
What has he lied about?
i assume you are trying to troll me but it was pretty well documented how many time he lied in the case with the womens bball transfer
Oh, I didn't know you were that die hard about women's basketball. Who's our leading scorer btw? Sounds like your real problem is with oscar, not our great AD JC. Grasping at straws can be tough tho. Go cats!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 09:09:48 PM
Also, he was hired to produce Illinois-esque results. Which is what we'll get, overall.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 02, 2016, 09:10:41 PM
what weber has done or hasn't done is irrelevant.  the reason to fire him is because removing weber from the job is a necessary part of the process of hiring underwood.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 09:13:31 PM
I hate currie because he is a liar and a rough ridin' hypocritical bad person.
What has he lied about?
i assume you are trying to troll me but it was pretty well documented how many time he lied in the case with the womens bball transfer
Oh, I didn't know you were that die hard about women's basketball. Who's our leading scorer btw? Sounds like your real problem is with oscar, not our great AD JC. Grasping at straws can be tough tho. Go cats!
it was a national story and made our University that we love look bad. It doesnt have anything to do with what sport it is nor make what i said not a fact
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:13:39 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
trajectory
(Even if I believed this cherry-picked stat) So what?
that makes you a sexist then, did you defend deb?
Nope, I did not.  It was completely different circumstances though.  You can pretend they are similar, but they're not and you know it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 09:15:50 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
trajectory
(Even if I believed this cherry-picked stat) So what?
that makes you a sexist then, did you defend deb?
Nope, I did not.  It was completely different circumstances though.  You can pretend they are similar, but they're not and you know it.
how are they not similar? "Trajectory"was jcs word not mine
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 09:16:22 PM
Yeah, oscar is here next year, which will (in some ways) likely be the third year of 3 straight years of improvement. Locking up oscar for even more years and maybe even an extension.

#BBB is just a fun exercise in the meantime.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:16:45 PM
what weber has done or hasn't done is irrelevant.  the reason to fire him is because removing weber from the job is a necessary part of the process of hiring underwood.
Firing oscar Weber would be horrible injustice to KSU basketball and its fans.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 09:17:06 PM
I hate currie because he is a liar and a rough ridin' hypocritical bad person.
What has he lied about?
i assume you are trying to troll me but it was pretty well documented how many time he lied in the case with the womens bball transfer
Oh, I didn't know you were that die hard about women's basketball. Who's our leading scorer btw? Sounds like your real problem is with oscar, not our great AD JC. Grasping at straws can be tough tho. Go cats!
it was a national story and made our University that we love look bad. It doesnt have anything to do with what sport it is nor make what i said not a fact
I bet less than 1% of the population remembers it, minus Bilas, but ya, he's awful!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on March 02, 2016, 09:17:52 PM
God chingon just doesn't know when to stop
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 09:18:26 PM
I hate currie because he is a liar and a rough ridin' hypocritical bad person.
What has he lied about?
i assume you are trying to troll me but it was pretty well documented how many time he lied in the case with the womens bball transfer
Oh, I didn't know you were that die hard about women's basketball. Who's our leading scorer btw? Sounds like your real problem is with oscar, not our great AD JC. Grasping at straws can be tough tho. Go cats!
it was a national story and made our University that we love look bad. It doesnt have anything to do with what sport it is nor make what i said not a fact
I bet less than 1% of the population remembers it, minus Bilas, but ya, he's awful!
oh hes a very good fund raiser ill give him that, what else can he hang his hat on? Certainly not character
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:18:47 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
trajectory
(Even if I believed this cherry-picked stat) So what?
that makes you a sexist then, did you defend deb?
Nope, I did not.  It was completely different circumstances though.  You can pretend they are similar, but they're not and you know it.
how are they not similar? "Trajectory"was jcs word not mine
How many years was Deb here?  You know the answer and choose to be obstinate.   
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 02, 2016, 09:19:56 PM
it ultimately boils down to fan expectations.  is going to the tournament every other year good enough to overcome oscar's dumbassery?
for some people it is.  for me, unless we have a direct line at someone who i believe to be better, then yes, it is.

firing oscar today to hire brad is a risk none of us in adjc's position would take.   you don't get to curr-dog's position by being a dumbass.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kslim on March 02, 2016, 09:21:31 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
trajectory
(Even if I believed this cherry-picked stat) So what?
that makes you a sexist then, did you defend deb?
Nope, I did not.  It was completely different circumstances though.  You can pretend they are similar, but they're not and you know it.
how are they not similar? "Trajectory"was jcs word not mine
How many years was Deb here?  You know the answer and choose to be obstinate.
so should we fire LHC Bill Snyder since his trajectory is also on a downward path even tho he has been here longer? Again you cant say that crap if you're currie. It was dumb and it will be referred to as long as he his here
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 02, 2016, 09:23:16 PM
He hired Mittie, who's taking the women to the big dance and got the #1 recruit overall. :emawkid:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:23:44 PM
For me oscar should be here even if makes the NCAA only his first two years and never again. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:24:30 PM
And he should be here for many years and retire here.  Why shouldn't he?
trajectory
(Even if I believed this cherry-picked stat) So what?
that makes you a sexist then, did you defend deb?
Nope, I did not.  It was completely different circumstances though.  You can pretend they are similar, but they're not and you know it.
how are they not similar? "Trajectory"was jcs word not mine
How many years was Deb here?  You know the answer and choose to be obstinate.
so should we fire LHC Bill Snyder since his trajectory is also on a downward path even tho he has been here longer? Again you cant say that crap if you're currie. It was dumb and it will be referred to as long as he his here
Your problem is you are caught up in stupid soundbites.  That's all they are, not oral contracts.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 09:27:37 PM
Does oscar have to be fired 1st b/c currie has no way of asking brad or even gauging his interest in advance?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:30:36 PM
If you were to find transcripts of the idiot Nebraska fans who wanted to fire Solich they would sound exactly like the people who want to fire oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:31:20 PM
KSU basketball "fans" right now = Nubb football fans from the early 2000's.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 02, 2016, 09:32:29 PM
it ultimately boils down to fan expectations.  is going to the tournament every other year good enough to overcome oscar's dumbassery?
for some people it is.  for me, unless we have a direct line at someone who i believe to be better, then yes, it is.

firing oscar today to hire brad is a risk none of us in adjc's position would take.   you don't get to curr-dog's position by being a dumbass.


3 out of 5 is my standard.  If he misses the tournament next year, he has failed and should be terminated.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 02, 2016, 09:33:28 PM
what weber has done or hasn't done is irrelevant.  the reason to fire him is because removing weber from the job is a necessary part of the process of hiring underwood.
Firing oscar Weber would be horrible injustice to KSU basketball and its fans.

it's not a fair world.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:34:44 PM
what weber has done or hasn't done is irrelevant.  the reason to fire him is because removing weber from the job is a necessary part of the process of hiring underwood.
Firing oscar Weber would be horrible injustice to KSU basketball and its fans.

it's not a fair world.
I know, but there a few of us left on this blue spaceship who think it should be.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:35:15 PM
it ultimately boils down to fan expectations.  is going to the tournament every other year good enough to overcome oscar's dumbassery?
for some people it is.  for me, unless we have a direct line at someone who i believe to be better, then yes, it is.

firing oscar today to hire brad is a risk none of us in adjc's position would take.   you don't get to curr-dog's position by being a dumbass.


3 out of 5 is my standard.  If he misses the tournament next year, he has failed and should be terminated.
That is insane.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on March 02, 2016, 09:35:21 PM
And chings thinks others are delusional :lol:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 02, 2016, 09:35:31 PM
Does oscar have to be fired 1st b/c currie has no way of asking brad or even gauging his interest in advance?

no.  first hire underwood, second fire weber.  or don't fire him, make him the baseball coach or some crap, i don't care about that part.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 02, 2016, 09:36:51 PM
it ultimately boils down to fan expectations.  is going to the tournament every other year good enough to overcome oscar's dumbassery?
for some people it is.  for me, unless we have a direct line at someone who i believe to be better, then yes, it is.

firing oscar today to hire brad is a risk none of us in adjc's position would take.   you don't get to curr-dog's position by being a dumbass.


3 out of 5 is my standard.  If he misses the tournament next year, he has failed and should be terminated.
That is insane.

It means fired from his job, not killed.  Good grief chingon.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 09:37:23 PM
Does oscar have to be fired 1st b/c currie has no way of asking brad or even gauging his interest in advance?

no.  first hire underwood, second fire weber.  or don't fire him, make him the baseball coach or some crap, i don't care about that part.

Sure.  Fire oscar Weber NOW is misguided.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 02, 2016, 09:37:59 PM
It means fired from his job, not killed.  Good grief chingon.

killed is fine too.  that part isn't the important part.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 09:38:21 PM
Also, Brad's gotta be loving all of this, whether he has any desire for the job or not.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:40:42 PM
it ultimately boils down to fan expectations.  is going to the tournament every other year good enough to overcome oscar's dumbassery?
for some people it is.  for me, unless we have a direct line at someone who i believe to be better, then yes, it is.

firing oscar today to hire brad is a risk none of us in adjc's position would take.   you don't get to curr-dog's position by being a dumbass.


3 out of 5 is my standard.  If he misses the tournament next year, he has failed and should be terminated.
That is insane.

It means fired from his job, not killed.  Good grief chingon.
Fired would be crazy too. Almost more so. 

The day oscar stops coaching KSU basketball is the day I hope to never live to see.  And I sincerely hope most of you never do either.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 09:43:29 PM
If you were to find transcripts of the idiot Nebraska fans who wanted to fire Solich they would sound exactly like the people who want to fire oscar.

KSU basketball "fans" right now = Nubb football fans from the early 2000's.

I'm assuming you are just trolling now, because this isn't even remotely accurate, nor is the situation remotely similar. Though I do look forward to some explanation of the similarities here.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Skipper44 on March 02, 2016, 09:43:30 PM
If you were to find transcripts of the idiot Nebraska fans who wanted to fire Solich they would sound exactly like the people who want to fire oscar.
lol at oscar ever winning over 11 conference games again
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ksupamplemousse on March 02, 2016, 09:44:58 PM
Chingon is making me feel lots of feelings right now, not sure whether to laugh or cry.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 02, 2016, 09:45:47 PM
If you were to find transcripts of the idiot Nebraska fans who wanted to fire Solich they would sound exactly like the people who want to fire oscar.

KSU basketball "fans" right now = Nubb football fans from the early 2000's.

I'm assuming you are just trolling now, because this isn't even remotely accurate, nor is the situation remotely similar. Though I do look forward to some explanation of the similarities here.

I usually enjoy a good chingon troll but he really ran out of steam on this one and mailed it in.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 09:46:57 PM
Chingon is making me feel lots of feelings right now, not sure whether to laugh or cry.

He is absolutely correct about the duration of oscar. He's feeling no heat except from a small minority of passionate fans like us.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ksupamplemousse on March 02, 2016, 09:49:27 PM
Chingon is making me feel lots of feelings right now, not sure whether to laugh or cry.

He is absolutely correct about the duration of oscar. He's feeling no heat except from a small minority of passionate fans like us.

Usually I'm able to put myself in someone else's shoes and see things from a different perspective. I straight up don't understand how someone could like oscar Weber as a person or coach though. He's a worse person than a basketball coach, and I think it says something about our fanbase that most people aren't sick of his bullshit. Maybe that's mean, but so was taking away good K-State basketball from me. So eff that guy.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:54:53 PM
If you were to find transcripts of the idiot Nebraska fans who wanted to fire Solich they would sound exactly like the people who want to fire oscar.

KSU basketball "fans" right now = Nubb football fans from the early 2000's.

I'm assuming you are just trolling now, because this isn't even remotely accurate, nor is the situation remotely similar. Though I do look forward to some explanation of the similarities here.
How many Big 12 championships did Frank Solich win? 

How many Nebraska fans told themselves a few years later how much better they deserved?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 09:59:42 PM
How many fans wanted to go against the very core the very culture of the program to hire an outsider like Callahan?

oscar is the core and the culture of KSU basketball.

Only Bobby Knight and Coach K define a program more. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 02, 2016, 10:02:48 PM
If you were to find transcripts of the idiot Nebraska fans who wanted to fire Solich they would sound exactly like the people who want to fire oscar.

KSU basketball "fans" right now = Nubb football fans from the early 2000's.

I'm assuming you are just trolling now, because this isn't even remotely accurate, nor is the situation remotely similar. Though I do look forward to some explanation of the similarities here.
How many Big 12 championships did Frank Solich win? 

How many Nebraska fans told themselves a few years later how much better they deserved?

Clearly not enough, but I can understand how the fanbase of a program coming off of 3 national titles in 4 years might get a bit delusional. More delusional than us at least.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: mocat on March 02, 2016, 10:15:37 PM
Guys how bad does wacky want to bone trim?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cartierfor3 on March 02, 2016, 10:28:47 PM
The basketball equivalent of Nebraska Football 2004-2013 would be ok with me i think chings
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 0.42 on March 02, 2016, 10:44:54 PM
either this place has layers on layers on layers now or people are just not smart enough to pick up on what Chings is doing.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 02, 2016, 11:05:11 PM
I'm not quite sure you understand either
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on March 02, 2016, 11:07:56 PM
Bad personality doesn't trump good performance (if we had good performance), but having a personality that encourages people to like you or even be just OK with you is a good quality to have when you're the face of something that requires fans.

Sure. If you're talking about currie, his continual success with all types of donors would indicate his personality isn't an issue.

What are the donor "type" categories?

http://www.ahearnfund.com/giving/levels/

Ha.  For evaluating purposes, you'd have to add a category of people who could/might donate but don't.

I donate but feel super shitty about it right now. Being shoved into a category of being happy with the status quo certainly doesn't make me feel better about being a donor.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 02, 2016, 11:13:05 PM
I donate

John Currie has continued success with you and your type.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on March 02, 2016, 11:13:23 PM
He was 62-60 in 4 seasons at Dodge City.

additional data often tends to be complicating.  i wish i hadn't been made aware of this.

I'm sure this will be worked out somewhere else in here before I get to it but 62-60 is historically good at DCCC.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on March 02, 2016, 11:16:55 PM
http://www.bringonthecats.com/2016/3/2/11141234/bring-back-brad

Come get your girl, Abe.

:lol:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Panjandrum on March 02, 2016, 11:18:09 PM
I turned down free Big 12 tournament tickets for the Wednesday sessions today.  I felt bad because the guy was genuinely nice about offering, but I told him that I'd rather scrape my eyeballs with glass than watch oscar Weber coach Kansas State in person.

I'm pretty much done.  I didn't even watch tonight.  Mainly because I forgot we had a game, but when I remembered, I just flipped on Pandora and started doing some work stuff instead.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on March 02, 2016, 11:21:55 PM
you really don't think he has a better than 50% chance of making the tourney next year?  If he makes the tourney he is getting an extension.

50%, hell naw. If we make the tournament next year under oscar he'll be top two in the conference COY voting.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Panjandrum on March 02, 2016, 11:26:04 PM
you really don't think he has a better than 50% chance of making the tourney next year?  If he makes the tourney he is getting an extension.

50%, hell naw. If we make the tournament next year under oscar he'll be top two in the conference COY voting.

None of the guys he recruited look like natural shooters, and I guess Stokes and Brown could be more consistent, but I just don't see some massive leap forward next year.

Probably a bubble team for most of the year, though.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Ptolemy on March 02, 2016, 11:29:33 PM
I turned down free Big 12 tournament tickets for the Wednesday sessions today.  I felt bad because the guy was genuinely nice about offering, but I told him that I'd rather scrape my eyeballs with glass than watch oscar Weber coach Kansas State in person.

I'm pretty much done.  I didn't even watch tonight.  Mainly because I forgot we had a game, but when I remembered, I just flipped on Pandora and started doing some work stuff instead.

That's me too. I had tickets but the cold I'm fighting made it not worth the effort. I watched a few minutes but went on to other things. No passion for it.

If the AD doesn't care that we win consistently and get to the NCAA tournament every year, what is the point in my caring?  Plus if the university president doesn't care enough to schedule a family vacation on some weekend other than KU at Bramlage weekend, why should I bother.

This is what they want.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 02, 2016, 11:29:51 PM
I'm sure this will be worked out somewhere else in here before I get to it but 62-60 is historically good at DCCC.

thank you.  that's all i need to know and all i want to know.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on March 02, 2016, 11:31:53 PM
He hired Mittie, who's taking the women to the big dance and got the #1 recruit overall. :emawkid:

One of these things definitely isn't true and the other may not be.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 02, 2016, 11:46:35 PM
Steve McClain was 91-16 at Hutch. He also looks like Steve Buschemi. What does that mean? you tell me.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on March 03, 2016, 12:04:17 AM
Hutch was so so so dirty back then.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SdK on March 03, 2016, 03:32:01 AM
I honestly hope oscar is at KSU for a very long time. He's the coach our fans want and deserve.  There is no reason or justification at all to fire the man.
This talking point is so stupid. I wish I didn't keep reading it on here.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SdK on March 03, 2016, 03:40:03 AM
I honestly hope oscar is at KSU for a very long time. He's the coach our fans want and deserve.  There is no reason or justification at all to fire the man.
This talking point is so stupid. I wish I didn't keep reading it on here.
Also I'm convinced Chingon is renocat now. A certain idiotic quality to them both.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: memphis on March 03, 2016, 07:56:58 AM
1 more year likely means like 3 more right? By that I mean bubble = building a program and it would be completely unreasonable to not support a program on the rise. Might as well stay in for the long haul and reevaluate candidates in 3 years. Who knows maybe Brad can use that time to go to a conference with a higher competition level?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: _33 on March 03, 2016, 08:02:35 AM
I know what Chingon is doing, but I'm not going to tell any of you guys.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: memphis on March 03, 2016, 08:07:53 AM
I know what Chingon is doing, but I'm not going to tell any of you guys.

It's better that way  :)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 03, 2016, 08:33:41 AM
I know what Chingon is doing, but I'm not going to tell any of you guys.

BBSing like a boss!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ksupamplemousse on March 03, 2016, 09:09:09 AM
I know what Chingon is doing, but I'm not going to tell any of you guys.

...said the emperor's knave.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Kat Kid on March 03, 2016, 09:45:50 AM
It is ok to have a viewpoint and to advocate and represent that viewpoint with like minded people.  That is ok.

Tactics should be up for discussion if the desired result is actually the stated purpose though.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 03, 2016, 10:42:11 AM
Guys how bad does wacky want to bone trim?
"He swings and misses!"
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 03, 2016, 10:59:14 AM
I would be ecstatic with Solich and Pelleni level success for Kstate hoops.  We've had that, it was great and the fans loved it.   Horrible comparison by Chings (no surprise there, he's a dumbass).
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 03, 2016, 11:02:00 AM
Oscar would be much more tolerable if he owned it, he doesn't as Slim said.  He looks for every angle to deflect, whine and re-direct.   For that reason alone he should be fired.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: slobber on March 03, 2016, 12:11:50 PM
I'm kind of getting on board with Chings on this issue. At first, I thought he was a dumbass, but now I've seen that he has made a pretty strong case!
Long live Oscar!


Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 03, 2016, 12:13:49 PM
Tactics should be up for discussion if the desired result is actually the stated purpose though.

i'm thinking currie should give him a call and offer him a job that pays millions of dollars/year.  what would be your plan?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on March 03, 2016, 12:14:57 PM
grovel first, amirite?  you think he should first grovel, then hire.  that's a good plan too.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 03, 2016, 12:17:07 PM
Tactics should be up for discussion if the desired result is actually the stated purpose though.

i'm thinking currie should give him a call and offer him a job that pays millions of dollars/year.  what would be your plan?

Currie should def delegate that.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Asteriskhead on March 05, 2016, 09:55:41 PM
I love Chingon right now.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: OK_Cat on March 05, 2016, 10:08:44 PM
oscar helped me realize how dumb basketball is. I haven't watched a game all season and I feel great about that decision. Long live oscar!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Asteriskhead on March 05, 2016, 10:16:56 PM
oscar helped me realize how dumb basketball is. I haven't watched a game all season and I feel great about that decision. Long live oscar!

John Currie helped me realize how stupid sports are. I kinda want to seek him out and apologize for all the mean things I've tweeted at him, but I still like Frank, so I wont.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 05, 2016, 10:24:21 PM
Yes and yes.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on March 05, 2016, 10:29:41 PM
I agree.

I really have started to not care at all.  I do not like oscar Weber, and as long as he is our coach, I just won't care about Cats basketball much at all.

I am about " " close to just dismissing college sports all together tho.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Tobias on March 05, 2016, 10:30:47 PM
i think you people are just watching wrong
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Kat Kid on March 05, 2016, 10:33:47 PM
Today I pondered building a sailboat by hand.  How productive would that be?  WOW!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 05, 2016, 10:43:44 PM
i think you people are just watching wrong

We should teach a course.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Asteriskhead on March 05, 2016, 10:59:36 PM
Today I pondered building a sailboat by hand.  How productive would that be?  WOW!

I'll help you. Can we pick something cooler for our second project, though?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Asteriskhead on March 05, 2016, 11:01:15 PM
i think you people are just watching wrong

We should teach a course.

I like it better when you guys find the good stuff and I get to spend my time doing something else.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 05, 2016, 11:14:44 PM
i think you people are just watching wrong

We should teach a course.

I like it better when you guys find the good stuff and I get to spend my time doing something else.

The best stuff are chat exclusives.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 05, 2016, 11:33:19 PM
LOL at @john_currie's @'s today.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Asteriskhead on March 05, 2016, 11:35:32 PM
i think you people are just watching wrong

We should teach a course.

I like it better when you guys find the good stuff and I get to spend my time doing something else.

The best stuff are chat exclusives.

probably, but I can't even be bothered to know when we have games scheduled let alone make sure I have a chat compatible device around.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ELL3 on March 05, 2016, 11:41:02 PM
Look at the last two years, that's Brucesketball, getting no better, we are a soft team that has no chance of winning in the road, it sucks, we will be having this same discussion in three years, I frickin love K-State and have been to ZERO games this season, first time ever.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pvegs on March 05, 2016, 11:53:17 PM
Look at the last two years, that's Brucesketball, getting no better, we are a soft team that has no chance of winning in the road, it sucks, we will be having this same discussion in three years, I frickin love K-State and have been to ZERO games this season, first time ever.

i went to 5 games this year and only bc i lived in mhk for the first time in 23 years and had free tix. all of those games i abandoned my seats in section 28 and moved to front row behind kstate bench bc there were 10 + empty seats. now i know exactly what i was missing out on in the 90s.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: bones129 on March 05, 2016, 11:57:08 PM
Said oscar after the game:

 “Even the other guys — D.J. hasn’t played for a long time, Wesley has had to kind of change positions for us. I’m not making excuses. You asked me a question, I am just trying to give you an answer the best I can describe. I don’t think we have a go-to guy. When things get tough, who is going to pick it up?”

 :bang:

Pull the plug on this guy now.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 05, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
oscar delivers.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 0.42 on March 07, 2016, 02:45:17 PM
Today I pondered building a sailboat by hand.  How productive would that be?  WOW!

Feel like you should probably consider a schooner instead
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 07, 2016, 02:48:02 PM
Start small.  Maybe a hand scrapped canoe or kayak?  Maybe graduate up after building three or four smaller craft?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on March 11, 2016, 09:08:51 PM
 :bwpopcorn:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 11, 2016, 09:12:20 PM
:horrorsurprise:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SdK on March 11, 2016, 10:25:06 PM
What's the scoop?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 0.42 on March 11, 2016, 10:47:24 PM
:bwpopcorn:

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/787/356/d6f.jpg)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on March 11, 2016, 10:49:05 PM
:pray:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: eastcat on March 12, 2016, 12:14:45 AM
 :crossfingers:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on March 12, 2016, 12:18:37 AM
:bwpopcorn:

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/787/356/d6f.jpg)

Can I help you? What can I pass along that the site creator hasn't already created, that the map proprietor hasn't begun in 4+ years?

Inside knowledge confirms everything before this minor update was created in a night after leaving the bars. What map progress do we have?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Tobias on March 12, 2016, 02:22:08 AM
kick his ass gE_Temp
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: mocat on March 12, 2016, 08:47:46 AM
Classic The Big Temp
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on March 12, 2016, 09:01:03 AM
 :confused:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 12, 2016, 10:36:03 AM
(http://goEMAW.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/oscar-record-3-12-16.png)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 10:39:26 AM
Road, neutral, and overall wins on the upswing! :ksu:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 12, 2016, 10:41:41 AM
Road, neutral, and overall wins on the upswing! :ksu:

Doubled last year's totals in a couple of those categories!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 12, 2016, 12:15:57 PM
This page http://www.firebrucewebernow.com/about.html is very strange. "WHAT THEY WANT IS FAILURE, AND NOTHING WILL STAND IN THEIR WAY"

Hiring a coach you thought could win but doesn't -- it happens at least once to virtually every AD in America. Currie has fired staff/coaches before, he will do so with oscar if/when needed. Keeping a losing coach looks worse than firing one you hired. Why on earth would an AD want failure?

Personal opinion: assuming Weber returns in 2016-17, if he doesn't make ncaa tourney, Weber will be gone.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Ptolemy on March 12, 2016, 12:21:20 PM
Personal opinion: assuming Weber returns in 2016-17, if he doesn't make ncaa tourney, Weber will be gone.

Why would he be gone? What if he makes the NIT? Why is 5 years the magic number?

You know now that he cannot recruit to the level of a P5 conference and he cannot manage talent and he makes ridiculous excuses when he loses.

Just do it now.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 12, 2016, 12:26:28 PM
This page http://www.firebrucewebernow.com/about.html is very strange. "WHAT THEY WANT IS FAILURE, AND NOTHING WILL STAND IN THEIR WAY"

Hiring a coach you thought could win but doesn't -- it happens at least once to virtually every AD in America. Currie has fired staff/coaches before, he will do so with oscar if/when needed. Keeping a losing coach looks worse than firing one you hired. Why on earth would an AD want failure?

Personal opinion: assuming Weber returns in 2016-17, if he doesn't make ncaa tourney, Weber will be gone.

Personal opinion:  Currie knew Weber would not win long term here.  Didn't think he would be around to deal with it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 12:26:38 PM
This page http://www.firebrucewebernow.com/about.html is very strange. "WHAT THEY WANT IS FAILURE, AND NOTHING WILL STAND IN THEIR WAY"

Hiring a coach you thought could win but doesn't -- it happens at least once to virtually every AD in America. Currie has fired staff/coaches before, he will do so with oscar if/when needed. Keeping a losing coach looks worse than firing one you hired. Why on earth would an AD want failure?

Personal opinion: assuming Weber returns in 2016-17, if he doesn't make ncaa tourney, Weber will be gone.

I don't think keeping oscar would mean Currie is "wanting failure" to him, it means oscar has met his expectations. Nothing about oscar's performance thus far should be a surprise to anyone, ESPECIALLY Currie.

Of course, to a fan, Currie's expectations could be considered "failure".
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 12, 2016, 12:44:23 PM
This page http://www.firebrucewebernow.com/about.html is very strange. "WHAT THEY WANT IS FAILURE, AND NOTHING WILL STAND IN THEIR WAY"

Hiring a coach you thought could win but doesn't -- it happens at least once to virtually every AD in America. Currie has fired staff/coaches before, he will do so with oscar if/when needed. Keeping a losing coach looks worse than firing one you hired. Why on earth would an AD want failure?

Personal opinion: assuming Weber returns in 2016-17, if he doesn't make ncaa tourney, Weber will be gone.

I don't think keeping oscar would mean Currie is "wanting failure" to him, it means oscar has met his expectations. Nothing about oscar's performance thus far should be a surprise to anyone, ESPECIALLY Currie.

Of course, to a fan, Currie's expectations could be considered "failure".

I don't agree that retaining weber for next year means he has met Currie's expectations. And I also disagree with your underlying premise that Currie is ok with mediocre basketball. If that was so, weber would return after next season regardless of postseason -- and I don't think that's the case.

I think Currie expected weber to win. You can argue whether that was wise. I don't think it's reasonable to believe that he expected mediocrity or is ok with it. Every AD wants to win. The best thing for Currie's image would be to have a coach he hired do well. To think he wants anything other than that doesn't really fit into the other narrative that he's an egomaniac.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cartierfor3 on March 12, 2016, 12:52:01 PM
This page http://www.firebrucewebernow.com/about.html is very strange. "WHAT THEY WANT IS FAILURE, AND NOTHING WILL STAND IN THEIR WAY"

Hiring a coach you thought could win but doesn't -- it happens at least once to virtually every AD in America. Currie has fired staff/coaches before, he will do so with oscar if/when needed. Keeping a losing coach looks worse than firing one you hired. Why on earth would an AD want failure?

Personal opinion: assuming Weber returns in 2016-17, if he doesn't make ncaa tourney, Weber will be gone.

I don't think keeping oscar would mean Currie is "wanting failure" to him, it means oscar has met his expectations. Nothing about oscar's performance thus far should be a surprise to anyone, ESPECIALLY Currie.

Of course, to a fan, Currie's expectations could be considered "failure".

I don't agree that retaining weber for next year means he has met Currie's expectations. And I also disagree with your underlying premise that Currie is ok with mediocre basketball. If that was so, weber would return after next season regardless of postseason -- and I don't think that's the case.

I think Currie expected weber to win. You can argue whether that was wise. I don't think it's reasonable to believe that he expected mediocrity or is ok with it. Every AD wants to win. The best thing for Currie's image would be to have a coach he hired do well. To think he wants anything other than that doesn't really fit into the other narrative that he's an egomaniac.

I don't think he WANTS to fail, but when we had Frank, and he tried to dismiss Curtis Kelly, then the whole Jamar thing, then running off Frank, it became clear to the fans winning is not what is valued most in a coach. What K-State has sold the past few years is "Family" and "The K-State Way" and "Doing thing THE RIGHT WAY" etc. I'm sure a win is viewed more positively than a loss, but the message I received as a fan is we'd rather lose the oscar way than win the Frank way.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SdK on March 12, 2016, 12:52:23 PM
But there is an agenda to which gE must adhere.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 12, 2016, 12:55:07 PM
New KSU coaches will be hired by a guy that wants to win and thus he hired oscar weber and expected oscar weber to win.  Good luck with all that.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 0.42 on March 12, 2016, 01:01:54 PM
:bwpopcorn:

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/787/356/d6f.jpg)

Can I help you? What can I pass along that the site creator hasn't already created, that the map proprietor hasn't begun in 4+ years?

Inside knowledge confirms everything before this minor update was created in a night after leaving the bars. What map progress do we have?

this was awfully rude
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: captaincrap on March 12, 2016, 01:08:43 PM
the message I received as a fan is we'd rather lose the oscar way than win the Frank way.

Currie's order of preference in my mind:

1. Win weber way
2. Win Frank way
3. Lose weber way
4. Lose frank way

I think Currie would rather win the "right" way, whatever that means to him -- he'd rather win and play by the rules. He thought he could get that with Weber, and I suppose it is still possible. But if/when it doesn't work out he'll find another guy.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SdK on March 12, 2016, 01:16:35 PM
Wow. Some common sense.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: slobber on March 12, 2016, 01:17:03 PM
CF3 sees things similarly to how I do.


Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 12, 2016, 01:19:43 PM
CF3 sees things similarly to how I do.


Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Yep.  Trying to be some squeaky clean program on a pedestal seems very unreasonable given what college sports appear to be.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 01:20:47 PM
This page http://www.firebrucewebernow.com/about.html is very strange. "WHAT THEY WANT IS FAILURE, AND NOTHING WILL STAND IN THEIR WAY"

Hiring a coach you thought could win but doesn't -- it happens at least once to virtually every AD in America. Currie has fired staff/coaches before, he will do so with oscar if/when needed. Keeping a losing coach looks worse than firing one you hired. Why on earth would an AD want failure?

Personal opinion: assuming Weber returns in 2016-17, if he doesn't make ncaa tourney, Weber will be gone.

I don't think keeping oscar would mean Currie is "wanting failure" to him, it means oscar has met his expectations. Nothing about oscar's performance thus far should be a surprise to anyone, ESPECIALLY Currie.

Of course, to a fan, Currie's expectations could be considered "failure".

I don't agree that retaining weber for next year means he has met Currie's expectations. And I also disagree with your underlying premise that Currie is ok with mediocre basketball. If that was so, weber would return after next season regardless of postseason -- and I don't think that's the case.

I think Currie expected weber to win. You can argue whether that was wise. I don't think it's reasonable to believe that he expected mediocrity or is ok with it. Every AD wants to win. The best thing for Currie's image would be to have a coach he hired do well. To think he wants anything other than that doesn't really fit into the other narrative that he's an egomaniac.

If Currie hired oscar and expected significantly better results after 4 years, he's a goddamn fool. I also think it's foolish to have a "make or break" year for a coach 5 years in to a tenure (who already has a 20 year track record). A bubble team that gets in is basically the same as a bubble team that is left out.

And to be fair, I posted in one of these threads that keeping oscar indefinitely while making the tournament 40-60% of the time isn't necessarily a bad idea. I don't think it's fitting a specific narrative or him being an egomaniac, it's about being realistic about where Weber stands among his peers. If you think he is average or slightly above average, it doesn't make sense to take a chance on an unproven commodity, because there's a better than 50% shot that the next guy will be worse. Keeping oscar indefinitely is kinda smart and pragmatic in a way.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 01:24:07 PM
I don't think he WANTS to fail, but when we had Frank, and he tried to dismiss Curtis Kelly, then the whole Jamar thing, then running off Frank, it became clear to the fans winning is not what is valued most in a coach. What K-State has sold the past few years is "Family" and "The K-State Way" and "Doing thing THE RIGHT WAY" etc. I'm sure a win is viewed more positively than a loss, but the message I received as a fan is we'd rather lose the oscar way than win the Frank way.

I there's a revenue element that is also important. If attendance was around early 2000's levels, oscar wouldn't be nearly as acceptable. I also don't think oscar is "losing". He'll have some good years and bad years and average years and that will likely be enough to have decent revenue along with a clean image.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2016, 01:24:44 PM
If currie placed value in winning, he wouldn't have hired a fired loser
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 12, 2016, 01:28:17 PM
Hiring the failure from Illinois is what ksu basketball aspired be.

Hiring the success at Illinois is what ku basketball decided to do.

The message is pretty clear.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: TheHamburglar on March 12, 2016, 01:29:15 PM
This page http://www.firebrucewebernow.com/about.html is very strange. "WHAT THEY WANT IS FAILURE, AND NOTHING WILL STAND IN THEIR WAY"

Hiring a coach you thought could win but doesn't -- it happens at least once to virtually every AD in America. Currie has fired staff/coaches before, he will do so with oscar if/when needed. Keeping a losing coach looks worse than firing one you hired. Why on earth would an AD want failure?

Personal opinion: assuming Weber returns in 2016-17, if he doesn't make ncaa tourney, Weber will be gone.

I don't think keeping oscar would mean Currie is "wanting failure" to him, it means oscar has met his expectations. Nothing about oscar's performance thus far should be a surprise to anyone, ESPECIALLY Currie.

Of course, to a fan, Currie's expectations could be considered "failure".

I don't agree that retaining weber for next year means he has met Currie's expectations. And I also disagree with your underlying premise that Currie is ok with mediocre basketball. If that was so, weber would return after next season regardless of postseason -- and I don't think that's the case.

I think Currie expected weber to win. You can argue whether that was wise. I don't think it's reasonable to believe that he expected mediocrity or is ok with it. Every AD wants to win. The best thing for Currie's image would be to have a coach he hired do well. To think he wants anything other than that doesn't really fit into the other narrative that he's an egomaniac.

If Currie hired oscar and expected significantly better results after 4 years, he's a goddamn fool. I also think it's foolish to have a "make or break" year for a coach 5 years in to a tenure (who already has a 20 year track record). A bubble team that gets in is basically the same as a bubble team that is left out.

And to be fair, I posted in one of these threads that keeping oscar indefinitely while making the tournament 40-60% of the time isn't necessarily a bad idea. I don't think it's fitting a specific narrative or him being an egomaniac, it's about being realistic about where Weber stands among his peers. If you think he is average or slightly above average, it doesn't make sense to take a chance on an unproven commodity, because there's a better than 50% shot that the next guy will be worse. Keeping oscar indefinitely is kinda smart and pragmatic in a way.

Currie: "I am risk management".
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 01:31:18 PM
This page http://www.firebrucewebernow.com/about.html is very strange. "WHAT THEY WANT IS FAILURE, AND NOTHING WILL STAND IN THEIR WAY"

Hiring a coach you thought could win but doesn't -- it happens at least once to virtually every AD in America. Currie has fired staff/coaches before, he will do so with oscar if/when needed. Keeping a losing coach looks worse than firing one you hired. Why on earth would an AD want failure?

Personal opinion: assuming Weber returns in 2016-17, if he doesn't make ncaa tourney, Weber will be gone.

I don't think keeping oscar would mean Currie is "wanting failure" to him, it means oscar has met his expectations. Nothing about oscar's performance thus far should be a surprise to anyone, ESPECIALLY Currie.

Of course, to a fan, Currie's expectations could be considered "failure".

I don't agree that retaining weber for next year means he has met Currie's expectations. And I also disagree with your underlying premise that Currie is ok with mediocre basketball. If that was so, weber would return after next season regardless of postseason -- and I don't think that's the case.

I think Currie expected weber to win. You can argue whether that was wise. I don't think it's reasonable to believe that he expected mediocrity or is ok with it. Every AD wants to win. The best thing for Currie's image would be to have a coach he hired do well. To think he wants anything other than that doesn't really fit into the other narrative that he's an egomaniac.

If Currie hired oscar and expected significantly better results after 4 years, he's a goddamn fool. I also think it's foolish to have a "make or break" year for a coach 5 years in to a tenure (who already has a 20 year track record). A bubble team that gets in is basically the same as a bubble team that is left out.

And to be fair, I posted in one of these threads that keeping oscar indefinitely while making the tournament 40-60% of the time isn't necessarily a bad idea. I don't think it's fitting a specific narrative or him being an egomaniac, it's about being realistic about where Weber stands among his peers. If you think he is average or slightly above average, it doesn't make sense to take a chance on an unproven commodity, because there's a better than 50% shot that the next guy will be worse. Keeping oscar indefinitely is kinda smart and pragmatic in a way.

Currie: "I am risk management".

Yep, he's going to stick with his bonds/index funds rather than chase tech stocks. There's a lot to be said for the strategy.

Of course, he could never say this, but it makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 12, 2016, 01:33:14 PM
Firing oscar only two years after letting and apparently encouraging him to blow up the roster, is crazier than simply firing him last year.   
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 12, 2016, 01:35:07 PM
If Currie hired oscar and expected significantly better results after 4 years, he's a goddamn fool. I also think it's foolish to have a "make or break" year for a coach 5 years in to a tenure (who already has a 20 year track record). A bubble team that gets in is basically the same as a bubble team that is left out.

And to be fair, I posted in one of these threads that keeping oscar indefinitely while making the tournament 40-60% of the time isn't necessarily a bad idea. I don't think it's fitting a specific narrative or him being an egomaniac, it's about being realistic about where Weber stands among his peers. If you think he is average or slightly above average, it doesn't make sense to take a chance on an unproven commodity, because there's a better than 50% shot that the next guy will be worse. Keeping oscar indefinitely is kinda smart and pragmatic in a way.

I agree that "make or break in year 5" is pretty dumb, but I also think the 2nd part of your point is why the 1st part might not be true in this particular situation. "Competitive" has to turn into "winning" and enough to be an NCAA tournament team at some point, even for the most patient of fans. If oscar goes 3 straight years with no NCAA births, then that Currie revenue stream will definitely start to take a hit. There will still be fans that stick with him if we make the NIT or something next year, but I think far more would jump off and lose their patience with oscar.

And honestly if anything, if this team somehow sneaks into the NIT this year, that might put slightly more pressure on an NCAA birth next season because one point of "improvement" would be erased for oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 01:39:57 PM
If Currie hired oscar and expected significantly better results after 4 years, he's a goddamn fool. I also think it's foolish to have a "make or break" year for a coach 5 years in to a tenure (who already has a 20 year track record). A bubble team that gets in is basically the same as a bubble team that is left out.

And to be fair, I posted in one of these threads that keeping oscar indefinitely while making the tournament 40-60% of the time isn't necessarily a bad idea. I don't think it's fitting a specific narrative or him being an egomaniac, it's about being realistic about where Weber stands among his peers. If you think he is average or slightly above average, it doesn't make sense to take a chance on an unproven commodity, because there's a better than 50% shot that the next guy will be worse. Keeping oscar indefinitely is kinda smart and pragmatic in a way.

I agree that "make or break in year 5" is pretty dumb, but I also think the 2nd part of your point is why the 1st part might not be true in this particular situation. "Competitive" has to turn into "winning" and enough to be an NCAA tournament team at some point, even for the most patient of fans. If oscar goes 3 straight years with no NCAA births, then that Currie revenue stream will definitely start to take a hit. There will still be fans that stick with him if we make the NIT or something next year, but I think far more would jump off and lose their patience with oscar.

And honestly if anything, if this team somehow sneaks into the NIT this year, that might put slightly more pressure on an NCAA birth next season because one point of "improvement" would be erased for oscar.

I think an improved conference record plus a bubble resume will be enough to keep the revenue solid for at least another year (whether or not they actually make it.) 4 straight misses might be a problem, although then you're getting in territory that is measurably worse than his Illinois performance.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 12, 2016, 01:43:48 PM
Yes. That's why I'm saying next year is more important. If he's makes 3 NCAAs in his first 5 years, even with 2 complete misses, then he'll be really safe and 80+% of K-State fans will be happy with the program. I won't even be that mad if that happens, but that happening seems like a coin toss at best.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 01:47:36 PM
Yes. That's why I'm saying next year is more important. If he's makes 3 NCAAs in his first 5 years, even with 2 complete misses, then he'll be really safe and 80+% of K-State fans will be happy with the program. I won't even be that mad if that happens, but that happening seems like a coin toss at best.

Our only disagreement is that I think merely being on the bubble will be plenty to keep fans engaged.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on March 12, 2016, 01:53:02 PM
Oh some event outside of oscar's control will keep enough  fans engaged in any case. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 12, 2016, 01:53:14 PM
Yes. That's why I'm saying next year is more important. If he's makes 3 NCAAs in his first 5 years, even with 2 complete misses, then he'll be really safe and 80+% of K-State fans will be happy with the program. I won't even be that mad if that happens, but that happening seems like a coin toss at best.

Our only disagreement is that I think merely being on the bubble will be plenty to keep fans engaged.

I see what you are saying.

.500 in the league might be bubble territory next year with a Big 12 that's not nearly as good. If oscar goes 9-9 or 10-8 in the Big 12 next year, he's probably safe regardless of the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cartierfor3 on March 12, 2016, 01:57:38 PM
the message I received as a fan is we'd rather lose the oscar way than win the Frank way.

Currie's order of preference in my mind:

1. Win weber way
2. Win Frank way
3. Lose weber way
4. Lose frank way

I think Currie would rather win the "right" way, whatever that means to him -- he'd rather win and play by the rules. He thought he could get that with Weber, and I suppose it is still possible. But if/when it doesn't work out he'll find another guy.


their actions suggest you can switch 2 and 3
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: TownieCat on March 12, 2016, 02:08:23 PM
Comparing Frank and oscar is pointless until SC does something noteworthy.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 12, 2016, 02:09:51 PM
I actually don't think Currie is an egomaniac.  I think it's almost the opposite, he lacks self confidence and is unsure of himself at times.  That is why he got edged into Weber by the search firm and Keady.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on March 12, 2016, 02:11:49 PM
Hiring the failure from Illinois is what ksu basketball aspired be.

Hiring the success at Illinois is what ku basketball decided to do.

The message is pretty clear.

yeah. being really, really good at mens basketball would not make the top ten list of what our AD wants to accomplish. for me it would be #2 just behind being really, really good at football and just ahead of being really, really good at women's basketball. but then again i would probably be focusing on those things so much that i wouldn't have built that rowing building on the rec fields. it's a give and take.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 12, 2016, 02:19:14 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2016, 02:20:59 PM
It's basketball, you keep BID until you find the guy.   

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 12, 2016, 02:23:08 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

https://youtu.be/JcZHSGyos6g?t=1m3s
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on March 12, 2016, 02:44:53 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 12, 2016, 02:49:35 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?

See my post.  He got bullied by people who stood to gain if Weber got hired or who had a close friendship with Weber.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Panjandrum on March 12, 2016, 03:01:26 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?

See my post.  He got bullied by people who stood to gain if Weber got hired or who had a close friendship with Weber.

I think he saw this squeaky clean guy (in his eyes) that got what he perceived to be a raw deal at Illinois.  He saw the polar opposite of Frank in terms of personality, and he kept hearing from all of these search firm guys and other coaches (Keady, Izzo) that oscar was a great X's and O's guy.  I think he had this mold of a coach he wanted, he saw a guy that fit his budget, and he rolled the dice.

To me, it feels like he looked at everything but the tangible results and trends.  It's like the threw out the actual data and used circumstantial evidence to make the case for hiring him.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CatsFan_58 on March 12, 2016, 03:03:58 PM

Comparing Frank and oscar is pointless until SC does something noteworthy.
I think what Frank has done is pretty noteworthy, considering where both programs were when each coach took over. One is trending up and one is trending down / stagnant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 12, 2016, 03:06:14 PM
A good rule of thumb is to not hire a coach who other coaches describe as a good (fill in the blank) coach.  Ex, x an o coach.  If they have to specify the one part of coaching they are good at,.they aren't good enough.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on March 12, 2016, 03:09:33 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?

See my post.  He got bullied by people who stood to gain if Weber got hired or who had a close friendship with Weber.

sure, but he still had to be incredibly college basketball stupid to go along with it and a decent part of your job should be to not be really dumb about your second biggest sport. also, from what i remember, he basically had oscar hired before frank was even gone. there was no real search. so yeah, he did what a couple of people told him to do. he's a very, very good accountant and he's in charge of hiring and firing division 1 coaches that make four times as much as he does. shocking that he doesn't want to put up with a little bit of frank and deb bullshit. easier to get rid of those hard chargers and hire some white middle aged male uber conforming schlubs.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: TownieCat on March 12, 2016, 03:22:56 PM

Comparing Frank and oscar is pointless until SC does something noteworthy.
I think what Frank has done is pretty noteworthy, considering where both programs were when each coach took over. One is trending up and one is trending down / stagnant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't use qualifiers. I don't dislike him, but Frank hasn't accomplished crap.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 03:40:11 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?
I don't think Currie thought oscar failed at Illinois.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attendanceYBYtop25.pdf

Look at oscar's last few seasons there. Currie probably looks at that and thinks Illinois' AD was crazy for letting him go.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 12, 2016, 03:51:02 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?
I don't think Currie thought oscar failed at Illinois.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attendanceYBYtop25.pdf

Look at oscar's last few seasons there. Currie probably looks at that and thinks Illinois' AD was crazy for letting him go.

Good point and link.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on March 12, 2016, 04:45:16 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?
I don't think Currie thought oscar failed at Illinois.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attendanceYBYtop25.pdf

Look at oscar's last few seasons there. Currie probably looks at that and thinks Illinois' AD was crazy for letting him go.

Good point and link.

illinois is top 20 min attendance every year though. that's why it's v weird for a coach to fail there. i'm not 100%, but i think oscar is the only coach to ever be fired from that school. it just doesn't happen. it's v easy to succeed their and match fan expectations.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 12, 2016, 04:56:38 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?
I don't think Currie thought oscar failed at Illinois.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attendanceYBYtop25.pdf

Look at oscar's last few seasons there. Currie probably looks at that and thinks Illinois' AD was crazy for letting him go.

Good point and link.

illinois is top 20 min attendance every year though. that's why it's v weird for a coach to fail there. i'm not 100%, but i think oscar is the only coach to ever be fired from that school. it just doesn't happen. it's v easy to succeed their and match fan expectations.

Wow, they really have never fired a coach in the modern era.  Henson, Kruger, Self from 1974-2003 is a remarkable run.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 04:59:02 PM


What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?
I don't think Currie thought oscar failed at Illinois.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attendanceYBYtop25.pdf

Look at oscar's last few seasons there. Currie probably looks at that and thinks Illinois' AD was crazy for letting him go.

Good point and link.

illinois is top 20 min attendance every year though. that's why it's v weird for a coach to fail there. i'm not 100%, but i think oscar is the only coach to ever be fired from that school. it just doesn't happen. it's v easy to succeed their and match fan expectations.

Also a good point (although they're about to fire a second). I still think he sees oscar's Illinois wins and losses replicated at KSU as acceptable as long is there is reasonably strong revenue.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on March 12, 2016, 05:01:05 PM
What's a worse look for currie - wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar, or not wanting to win and accordingly hiring oscar?

this is a great question, because as a casual observer of college sports and not something that i do for a living to make money and provide for my family, i would and did know for 100% certainty that the oscar hire was going to fail. not 99%. 100%. if i knew, how did he not?
I don't think Currie thought oscar failed at Illinois.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attendanceYBYtop25.pdf

Look at oscar's last few seasons there. Currie probably looks at that and thinks Illinois' AD was crazy for letting him go.

Good point and link.

illinois is top 20 min attendance every year though. that's why it's v weird for a coach to fail there. i'm not 100%, but i think oscar is the only coach to ever be fired from that school. it just doesn't happen. it's v easy to succeed their and match fan expectations.

Wow, they really have never fired a coach in the modern era.  Henson, Kruger, Self from 1974-2003 is a remarkable run.

it goes back way further than that. i think a coach resigned once or something but no one has ever been fired. except oscar. so we hired the only person to ever be fired from coaching basketball at illinois.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on March 12, 2016, 05:02:55 PM
Amazing
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 12, 2016, 05:05:44 PM
I mean firing basketball coaches pre 1970 wasn't really a thing but i get what you are saying. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on March 12, 2016, 05:06:04 PM
What you gotta remember about that fact that oscar is the only coach to have ever been fired by illinois is that none of the others had the bad luck to be saddled with a young team and close losses.  And even so, oscar was just 2 conference tourney wins away from being in the big dance.

https://youtu.be/zhj5MAtvmpk?t=18m47s
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: DOD Take 2 on March 12, 2016, 06:15:39 PM
the message I received as a fan is we'd rather lose the oscar way than win the Frank way.

Currie's order of preference in my mind:

1. Win weber way
2. Win Frank way
3. Lose weber way
4. Lose frank way

I think Currie would rather win the "right" way, whatever that means to him -- he'd rather win and play by the rules. He thought he could get that with Weber, and I suppose it is still possible. But if/when it doesn't work out he'll find another guy.

Are you saying you don't think we've hit the point where it hasn't worked out?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on March 12, 2016, 06:20:13 PM
Win still can only win 4 big 12 games and 3 and etc.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 12, 2016, 07:11:26 PM
oscar has actually performed a little bit better than I expected him to.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on March 12, 2016, 07:14:47 PM
the message I received as a fan is we'd rather lose the oscar way than win the Frank way.

Currie's order of preference in my mind:

1. Win weber way
2. Win Frank way
3. Lose weber way
4. Lose frank way

I think Currie would rather win the "right" way, whatever that means to him -- he'd rather win and play by the rules. He thought he could get that with Weber, and I suppose it is still possible. But if/when it doesn't work out he'll find another guy.

Are you saying you don't think we've hit the point where it hasn't worked out?

what cc is saying is that bw will maybe/probably be fired next year if the team doesn't make the ncaa tourney. that seems reasonable given the circumstances. the circumstances are obviously ridiculous though given that we hired a loser and expected him to win and then when he didn't, we allowed him to kick half the team off and completely start over again but it is what it is, etc.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2016, 07:32:08 PM
I mean firing basketball coaches pre 1970 wasn't really a thing but i get what you are saying.
Yeah, we've really only fired two
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on March 12, 2016, 07:40:27 PM

Hiring the failure from Illinois is what ksu basketball aspired be.

Hiring the success at Illinois is what ku basketball decided to do.

The message is pretty clear.


THIS!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzified on March 12, 2016, 09:04:37 PM
Watching Brad's Jacks on ESPN2. Can't tell you how livid it makes me that Oscar is patrolling K-State sideline. Also Baker of WSU is a poor man's Walkup.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on March 12, 2016, 09:12:44 PM
Brad just knows how to coach. oscar has no rough ridin' clue
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SdK on March 12, 2016, 09:35:25 PM
Watching Brad's Jacks on ESPN2. Can't tell you how livid it makes me that Oscar is patrolling K-State sideline. Also Baker of WSU is a poor man's Walkup.
Because they are both white? They don't play the same posish
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kitten_mittons on March 12, 2016, 09:43:11 PM
the message I received as a fan is we'd rather lose the oscar way than win the Frank way.

Currie's order of preference in my mind:

1. Win weber way
2. Win Frank way
3. Lose weber way
4. Lose frank way

I think Currie would rather win the "right" way, whatever that means to him -- he'd rather win and play by the rules. He thought he could get that with Weber, and I suppose it is still possible. But if/when it doesn't work out he'll find another guy.
It would be ideal to win the national championship every year without having to pay a coach, but any non-moron would know that it wouldn't work.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzified on March 12, 2016, 09:44:01 PM
Yeah it all about the white. About the same height, muscle bound. Walkup seems to play every position. Brings the ball up, hangs in the post as Brad's offensive rotates around him, gets out on the wing.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: AndrewVonLintel on March 13, 2016, 12:07:00 AM
Watching Brad's Jacks on ESPN2. Can't tell you how livid it makes me that Oscar is patrolling K-State sideline. Also Baker of WSU is a poor man's Walkup.
Because they are both white? They don't play the same posish


The are similar because they are both good, however  Walkup has a preference for the interior and Baker for the perimeter.

If I was at Wichita State,  I wouldn't take Walkup and sub him in for Baker.  I would sub Walkup in for Wessel (Walkup is much better).
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: PIPE on March 13, 2016, 09:45:54 PM
The website in question needs to be updated.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cannoncat on March 13, 2016, 10:01:04 PM
What a masterpiece  :peek:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on March 14, 2016, 09:43:17 AM
TCU fired our lackluster bball coach.

U Jelly?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: WildcatNkilt on March 14, 2016, 09:45:10 AM
I went to "Brackfest" this morning.  This is a breakfast benefit where proceeds went to KU Med concussion research.  The guest panel was Kietzman, Dave Armstrong, Greg Gurley, and Conner Teahan.  A question was asked about how long oscar would last at K-State.  Armstrong and Gurley both praised oscar and the job he did this year.  Armstrong went as far as saying this might have been his best coaching year he has ever had and he should be around for a few more years. 

They are on the #Bruceneedsmoretime bandwagon. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 14, 2016, 09:51:50 AM
I heard 810 pumping that up this morning. That's really sad.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: meow meow on March 14, 2016, 09:56:19 AM
of course ku fans want him around, he's fun to mock
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 14, 2016, 10:00:42 AM
They want him around for the same reason we wanted them to keep Turner and Weis around. Their version of #TSC
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Skipper44 on March 14, 2016, 10:08:28 AM
yeah, an endorsement from 2 guys on the KU payroll is just what the KState brain trust likes to hear
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BackPayne on March 14, 2016, 11:34:11 AM
Any rumors of players transferring out?  This would help our cause.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: meow meow on March 14, 2016, 11:39:28 AM
time to western union D Wade some Abe Lincolns.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 14, 2016, 12:07:08 PM
Somebody go drop some WU receipts in the trash at Dillon's.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 14, 2016, 03:46:17 PM
The Western Union thing wouldn't make oscar quit like it made Frank quit. oscar would just throw the player under the bus and go along with whatever Currie thinks is best.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 14, 2016, 09:46:37 PM
Tonight's K-State basketball coaching Did you know?

Everyone remembers the tenures of Altman and Asbury mostly as negative.

YET!

Neither went back to back years without at least making the NIT.

Altman went none-NIT-NCAA-NIT
Asbury went none-NCAA-none-NIT-NIT-none

It wasn't until Wooly followed Asbury with none (and then none-none-none-none-none) that we saw the first coach go multiple years without postseason appearances since the last 4 years of Hartman.

Now oscar has done it again.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 14, 2016, 10:06:00 PM
Tonight's K-State basketball coaching Did you know?

Everyone remembers the tenures of Altman and Asbury mostly as negative.

YET!

Neither went back to back years without at least making the NIT.

Altman went none-NIT-NCAA-NIT
Asbury went none-NCAA-none-NIT-NIT-none

It wasn't until Wooly followed Asbury with none (and then none-none-none-none-none) that we saw the first coach go multiple years without postseason appearances since the last 4 years of Hartman.

Now oscar has done it again.
Wow
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 14, 2016, 10:07:36 PM
Although making the nit is much harder because of the auto bids
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 14, 2016, 10:12:21 PM

Although making the nit is much harder because of the auto bids

Yeah, this is a fair point.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: catzacker on March 14, 2016, 10:13:54 PM
Although making the nit is much harder because of the auto bids

still. oscar got handed a program that hadn't missed the NIT/NCAA in 6yrs and in 4 yrs he's missed it twice.  And in those 6 years the program won at least one post season game - oscar hasn't won any.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: HerrSonntag on March 14, 2016, 10:16:26 PM
I just watched the 30-for-30 on Boston College.  Do you think any of those conference tournaments were fixed and those teams intentionally went to the NIT?  I mean, who could know, but probably.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on March 14, 2016, 11:16:24 PM

Although making the nit is much harder because of the auto bids

Yeah, this is a fair point.

This is relatively new, I think it happened when the NCAA took over the NIT five years or so ago.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ednksu on March 15, 2016, 06:16:24 AM
Fan_ is making me so sad.  :frown:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 15, 2016, 08:30:31 AM
Although making the nit is much harder because of the auto bids

True, but the expansion of the NCAA tournament mitigates that a little bit.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on March 15, 2016, 08:38:25 AM

Although making the nit is much harder because of the auto bids

True, but the expansion of the NCAA tournament mitigates that a little bit.

Great point
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on March 15, 2016, 08:39:53 AM
I think conference record is what I focus on most. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 15, 2016, 08:42:00 AM
I think conference record is what I focus on most.
I've long said that's a much better indicator of the general direction and strength of a program than postseason invites and results.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on March 15, 2016, 08:55:07 AM
Adds a bit of weight to "No Wednesday's"
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 15, 2016, 08:58:45 AM
Adds a bit of weight to "No Wednesday's"
yes, and it started when only the top four avoided Wednesday/Thursday.

:frown:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: scottwildcat on March 15, 2016, 09:23:31 AM

Although making the nit is much harder because of the auto bids

True, but the expansion of the NCAA tournament mitigates that a little bit.

And this season SMU Louisville and LSU didn't play in the postseason, which all 3 would have been invited over us which even opened up 3 more spots this year that we couldn't get into.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: TheHamburglar on March 15, 2016, 12:56:51 PM

Although making the nit is much harder because of the auto bids

True, but the expansion of the NCAA tournament mitigates that a little bit.

And this season SMU Louisville and LSU didn't play in the postseason, which all 3 would have been invited over us which even opened up 3 more spots this year that we couldn't get into.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also people are throwing around "15 autobids", but 5 or 6 of them (not sure about Akron) were seeded above at-large teams, so they were getting on anyway.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 16, 2016, 02:29:12 PM
Quote
I heard from a guy, who heard (indirectly) from a connected basketball guy(not a K-State guy), who heard from a connected OU guy, that K-State has been visiting with Steve Henson.

The above statement is 100% true. This is 100% what I was told. I have absolutely no idea what it means. I'm just happy I heard anything that gives me a glimmer of hope that oscar still may be shown the door. This is how desparate I am. I don't even want Steve Henson, but I'd take him over oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 16, 2016, 02:31:57 PM
That is just John telling Steve and lon that they better up their donations or he will find a decent BB coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 16, 2016, 02:48:52 PM
I would burn this message board to the ground if Steve Henson came anywhere near the program.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on March 16, 2016, 02:59:19 PM

I would burn this message board to the ground if Steve Henson came anywhere near the program.

Kim Andersonish
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 16, 2016, 03:03:50 PM
I would burn this message board to the ground if Steve Henson came anywhere near the program.
would you rather have oscar or steve?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 16, 2016, 03:14:43 PM
oscar
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 16, 2016, 04:26:12 PM
I'm upset that you even asked clams.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 16, 2016, 04:28:04 PM
solution:  how about oscar hires steve onto the staff as his head coach in waiting for when/if oscar decides to retire?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BostonPancake on March 16, 2016, 04:31:22 PM
Henson   :Yuck: :Yuck:

If Henson wants to be a head coach, he should call up SFA right now and get his name on the list after Brad leaves.


Just keep oscar and start building that track around the court.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Gooch on March 16, 2016, 04:47:24 PM
Henson   :Yuck: :Yuck:

If Henson wants to be a head coach, he should call up SFA right now and get his name on the list after Brad leaves.


Just keep oscar and start building that track around the court.

:ROFL:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: slobber on March 16, 2016, 04:51:52 PM
Could you even imagine how hard it would be to fire Henson if he sucked?


Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on March 16, 2016, 04:56:30 PM
Could you even imagine how hard it would be to fire Henson if he sucked?


Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Ask Mizzou
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: slobber on March 16, 2016, 05:00:36 PM

Could you even imagine how hard it would be to fire Henson if he sucked?


Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Ask Mizzou
I think KSU tucks are worse than Mizzou tucks!


Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 16, 2016, 05:07:57 PM
Good thing Steve Henson will never coach here
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 16, 2016, 05:11:33 PM
me:  steve, what's the best part of being oscar's HCIW at kansas state
steve:  everything
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on March 16, 2016, 06:18:02 PM
Do not want
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on March 16, 2016, 07:35:08 PM
I have no clue why, but I (as it seems most here do) shudder at the thought of Steve Henson coaching the Cats.

BBB.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 16, 2016, 07:44:37 PM
What if Henson = Hoiberg? I mean, what if?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on March 16, 2016, 07:49:35 PM
I have no clue why, but I (as it seems most here do) shudder at the thought of Steve Henson coaching the Cats.

BBB.
He's fatter balder and uglier than anyone
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 16, 2016, 07:55:59 PM
Just a couple of former Bullpups coaching some hoop.

(http://collegechalktalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Henson_TS1.jpg)

(http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/dailysentinel.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/0a/00a17068-3769-11e3-a76f-001a4bcf887a/5260459b49049.image.jpg)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: mocat on March 16, 2016, 08:05:48 PM
It's the goatee
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 16, 2016, 08:11:20 PM
hciw steve henson has an incredible *ring* to it
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 16, 2016, 08:13:49 PM
bill nance:  "we're going live to courtside where hciw steve henson just won his first national championship in waiting, hwic, how does it feel?"

hwic steve henson:  "it feels great, bill.  especially great because i did it at a place i've always called home"
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 16, 2016, 08:21:11 PM
bill nance:  "we're going live to courtside where hciw steve henson just won his first national championship in waiting, hwic, how does it feel?"

hwic steve henson:  "it feels great, bill.  especially great because i did it at a place i've always called home"

bill nance: "what's next for you and the ksu wildcats?

hwic steve henson: "as you know, i worked for years with lon kruger. one thing lon always told me is he regretted leaving kstate and not building kstate into the dynasty that it is meant to be. let me tell you bill, i will not make that mistake again. i plan to be the coach k at kstate. in fact, you can just start calling me "coach h" right now.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on March 16, 2016, 08:31:48 PM
I will fight both of you
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on March 16, 2016, 08:33:53 PM
I will fight both of you

(http://s.ecrater.com/stores/75577/492afc1a8fb4d_75577b.jpg)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 16, 2016, 08:38:38 PM
"she's all yours, steve-o, my boy"

(http://www.thesalutepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/9039723.jpg)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 16, 2016, 08:39:37 PM
can't wait to hear mitch talk about "the purple pedigree" when they hire steve after oscar retires
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on March 16, 2016, 08:44:25 PM
I'd love Frater Henson to be the head coach. Loved watching him play in college. However he needs some solid HC experience first.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: mocat on March 16, 2016, 08:54:55 PM
Steve henson looks like he dips a lot
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on March 16, 2016, 09:25:18 PM
I'd love Frater Henson to be the head coach. Loved watching him play in college. However he needs some solid HC experience first.

he is to lon as sean is to bill
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: TheHamburglar on March 16, 2016, 09:39:50 PM
I will fight both of you

(http://s.ecrater.com/stores/75577/492afc1a8fb4d_75577b.jpg)

This is fantastic. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on March 17, 2016, 07:17:33 AM
should be on the back of his biz card
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on November 06, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
 :Lurk:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on November 06, 2016, 07:21:29 PM
??????

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ksu101 on November 06, 2016, 09:42:55 PM
go on.........
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Skipper44 on November 06, 2016, 09:52:20 PM
 :jerk:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Bill Clarahan on November 07, 2016, 07:29:41 PM
can't wait to hear mitch talk about "the purple pedigree" when they hire steve after oscar retires

Mitch said on the radio this weekend that he's been the Chiefs announcer for 23 years and that's hard to believe.  It seems like yesterday he was describing The Sarge climbing the purple ladder for a carrom or Mitch being better than advertised.  How do you think he would describe Weber, maybe a " Purple Puddle of Poop"
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Spracne on November 07, 2016, 07:35:46 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on November 07, 2016, 08:55:14 PM
can't wait to hear mitch talk about "the purple pedigree" when they hire steve after oscar retires

Mitch said on the radio this weekend that he's been the Chiefs announcer for 23 years and that's hard to believe.  It seems like yesterday he was describing The Sarge climbing the purple ladder for a carrom or Mitch being better than advertised.  How do you think he would describe Weber, maybe a " Purple Puddle of Poop"

no, i think mitch and oscar would get along swimmingly
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on November 07, 2016, 08:59:01 PM
23 years. The Mitch Cat Chat finale at Lucky Brewgrille seems like yesterday.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cartierfor3 on November 07, 2016, 09:01:03 PM
that's because you're so old _FAN
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cartierfor3 on November 07, 2016, 09:02:08 PM
(http://rs216.pbsrc.com/albums/cc136/lightfootfan1/giggle.gif~c200)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on November 07, 2016, 09:17:29 PM
As the season goes along more and more will be revealed.  Additional pressure will be added to the AD.  I also can pass along any suggestions for additional content through a PM.

Regardless, this season will be oscar's last.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on November 07, 2016, 09:23:22 PM
When did the temp get so damn arrogant.  I guess we made him a full time offer and now he thinks he runs the joint.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on November 07, 2016, 09:25:19 PM
Not buying it.  KS 'seeds invented inertia.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on January 13, 2018, 10:56:46 PM
Hello gE.com! I have been well and hopefully everyone else has too. Since I left my post there I have moved on to bigger things, but I always will have a soft spot in my heart for you people.

I was just informed that this site has been redesigned and is back online after today's unfortunate events. Enjoy!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 14, 2018, 08:50:51 AM
How about scaling those graphs a wee bit.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on January 14, 2018, 09:27:53 AM
How about scaling those graphs a wee bit.

I just checked and they seem fine to me  ;)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 14, 2018, 09:29:21 AM
How about scaling those graphs a wee bit.

I just checked and they seem fine to me  ;)
Scale nicely in mobile. Look like crap on a monitor
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cire on January 14, 2018, 06:21:30 PM
Invalid Tweet ID

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 14, 2018, 06:35:18 PM
You got trolled by someone pretending to be Fran on twitter and decided to post the evidence here?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: The Big Train on January 14, 2018, 06:36:27 PM
Looking at that account it just got Frank too :lol:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cire on January 14, 2018, 06:37:09 PM
LMAO

I didn't even check


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cire on January 14, 2018, 06:50:21 PM
That's way more embarrassing than I thought it would be


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 14, 2018, 08:48:52 PM
Seriously though. Those graphs look like crap not on mobile. Hell the entire thing is crap.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on January 14, 2018, 09:07:00 PM
Seriously though. Those graphs look like crap not on mobile. Hell the entire thing is crap.

The graphs were fixed when I responded to your critique this morning. Clear your cache and reload the website again, this isn't hard.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 14, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Seriously though. Those graphs look like crap not on mobile. Hell the entire thing is crap.

The graphs were fixed when I responded to your critique this morning. Clear your cache and reload the website again, this isn't hard.
I've been on mobile the rest of the day. Your response earlier lead me to believe you weren't changing them. I'll look tomorrow
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: gE_Temp on January 14, 2018, 09:20:04 PM
Seriously though. Those graphs look like crap not on mobile. Hell the entire thing is crap.

The graphs were fixed when I responded to your critique this morning. Clear your cache and reload the website again, this isn't hard.
I've been on mobile the rest of the day. Your response earlier lead me to believe you weren't changing them. I'll look tomorrow

So instead of verifying for yourself that it wasn't fixed you conveyed the same critique again? See here is the issue, I enjoy the suggestions to make a common goal more plausible. However when you one, don't understand the technology to begin with, and two, don't independently verify for yourself, I take offense.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 14, 2018, 09:22:02 PM
Zzzzz
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 14, 2018, 09:24:58 PM
So instead of saying you're right and that you'll fix it, you pitch a butthurt fit and make a big deal about nothing. Good grief.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Joker on January 15, 2018, 08:05:31 AM
The site is a good start but a little rough around the edges.  Maybe reach out to these guys (https://saveksfb.com/) for some pointers.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MadCat on January 15, 2018, 09:57:41 AM
Remember the days when temps would be out on their ass if they gave sass to a client?  :cyclist:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: catastrophe on January 15, 2018, 10:42:30 AM
Yes, saveksfb.com is the gold standard in coach firing websites. I’m not going to tell you how to run your dumb site, but if it were me I wouldn’t let the thing go live until the quality is on par with my standards.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on January 15, 2018, 10:44:26 AM
firefirebrucewebernow.com
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 04, 2020, 03:18:54 PM
:dunno:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 'taterblast on February 25, 2020, 08:41:25 PM
fire it up
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on December 08, 2020, 10:02:43 PM
Burn it down.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 02, 2021, 10:05:02 PM


Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on January 20, 2021, 03:18:28 PM
I know there is plenty of oscar ammo at this point, but here are the worst 2 years stretches for K-State basketball since joining their first "major" conference (the Big 6) in 1929.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/717x285q90/r/923/alTJ0Y.png)

If the season finishes according to kenpom projections, it will end up the 2nd worst 2 year stretch both overall and in conference play.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on January 20, 2021, 03:22:32 PM
Curtains
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SkinnyBenny on January 20, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
K-State really should've listened to Testy Westy's magnets in 2015.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 20, 2021, 03:36:35 PM
Oh happy day...

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 20, 2021, 03:41:58 PM
Fire up the coaching search thread, with a burn it down below this line feature.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 20, 2021, 04:04:28 PM
He should only be fired if he loses The Streak. Everything else was foreseeable and as expected.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: memphis on January 20, 2021, 04:46:05 PM
They should pay out his contract and let him re up it for a year or two if he gets to the S16 or unless stud hire comes into the picture.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 20, 2021, 04:46:35 PM
Who are the hottest names in coaching right now? Can we get someone as good as Gregg who is not a horrible human being?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 20, 2021, 04:51:40 PM
Can we get someone as good as Gregg who is not a horrible human being?

In my mind it's a very desirably job. Program has decent history, decent facilities, and I actually think there is some talent on campus to win some games right away.

But, I always make fun of programs who think so highly of themselves and are completely unaware of their place during a coaching search...so I hope I'm not completely self-unaware, but I probably am :sads:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 20, 2021, 05:28:53 PM
You're telling a story with the stats you're providing here and on twitter, but I want you to explicitly say it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 20, 2021, 05:33:45 PM
Who are the hottest names in coaching right now? Can we get someone as good as Gregg who is not a horrible human being?

No but our next coach is Craig Smith
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 20, 2021, 05:36:23 PM
wrong dakota, i think the dakotas hate each other
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 20, 2021, 05:38:34 PM
Seat not so hot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7dBDapOekk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2021, 02:17:27 AM
Seat not so hot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7dBDapOekk

I listened to that live, did you expect him to blow oscar up? Again, I don't think, as of right now, that oscar is gonna get run, but gene pushed Snyder right the eff out the door, he's not scared of running oscar to get his own basketball coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 21, 2021, 05:59:02 AM
Seat not so hot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7dBDapOekk

I listened to that live, did you expect him to blow oscar up? Again, I don't think, as of right now, that oscar is gonna get run, but gene pushed Snyder right the eff out the door, he's not scared of running oscar to get his own basketball coach.

Yea I mean UT slit Herman’s throat after saying he was their coach, no AD is going to tip their hand.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on January 21, 2021, 10:14:09 AM
You're telling a story with the stats you're providing here and on twitter, but I want you to explicitly say it.

The numbers seem pretty clear. I'm not ready to go all Fitz quite yet. :)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 21, 2021, 10:56:10 AM
What's the buyout?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on January 21, 2021, 11:55:11 AM
What's the buyout?

We should offer to match whatever Jamar's trashcan receipt said he was wired from his old coach.  That's where this downward spiral started.  Would be a super good fitting end.  Full circle.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on January 21, 2021, 01:51:43 PM
What's the buyout?

I believe it is $2 mil, but I'm not sure if that is after April 30th or not.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2021, 01:56:36 PM
What's the buyout?

We should offer to match whatever Jamar's trashcan receipt said he was wired from his old coach.  That's where this downward spiral started.  Would be a super good fitting end.  Full circle.

It's a great post, but we did win two conference championships and have an elite 8 after that. You gotta go back 39 years before the trashcan lie to 1973 to find an elite 8 and two conference championships.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: KITNfury on January 21, 2021, 03:22:34 PM
What's the buyout?

We should offer to match whatever Jamar's trashcan receipt said he was wired from his old coach.  That's where this downward spiral started.  Would be a super good fitting end.  Full circle.

It's a great post, but we did win two conference championships and have an elite 8 after that. You gotta go back 39 years before the trashcan lie to 1973 to find an elite 8 and two conference championships.
I'm happy for the good times oscar gave us, but also want him fired.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 21, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
What's the buyout?

We should offer to match whatever Jamar's trashcan receipt said he was wired from his old coach.  That's where this downward spiral started.  Would be a super good fitting end.  Full circle.

It's a great post, but we did win two conference championships and have an elite 8 after that. You gotta go back 39 years before the trashcan lie to 1973 to find an elite 8 and two conference championships.

i can't separate the elite 8 from the fact that it only happened because the 1 seed lost to a 16 for the first and only time ever in the tournament. No reasonable person could argue we would have beat Virginia had they taken care of business against UMBC. Had it not been for that ridiculous fortune, it would have been another year of oh look an early exit from the NCAA tourney.

So rather than putting undue value on that E8, i'm seeing 2 shared conference championships which, okay, that's cool...and a handful of NCAA tournament appearances where we never made it out of the round of 32
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 21, 2021, 06:27:56 PM
I deleted and retyped multiple posts... but honestly, I'd be really damn happy if we could bring in a coach that could have the exact same success oscar had the first 7 years here.

Would I like more post season success? Absolutely... But I'd take 2 conference championships every 7 years for the rest of my life.

If he was just decent the last 2 seasons, he could probably stays here for the rest of his coaching life... but these lows are too low, and I don't think anyone believes he can dig himself out of it or that he deserves another full rebuild.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on January 21, 2021, 06:37:32 PM
I’d settle for lower peaks if it was fun and the valleys didn’t make me turn off Cats bball entirely.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2021, 06:38:56 PM
What's the buyout?

We should offer to match whatever Jamar's trashcan receipt said he was wired from his old coach.  That's where this downward spiral started.  Would be a super good fitting end.  Full circle.

It's a great post, but we did win two conference championships and have an elite 8 after that. You gotta go back 39 years before the trashcan lie to 1973 to find an elite 8 and two conference championships.

i can't separate the elite 8 from the fact that it only happened because the 1 seed lost to a 16 for the first and only time ever in the tournament. No reasonable person could argue we would have beat Virginia had they taken care of business against UMBC. Had it not been for that ridiculous fortune, it would have been another year of oh look an early exit from the NCAA tourney.

You can't because you don't want to.

We did beat the team that many people had as a favorite to go to the final four out of that region, and we beat them at a glorified home game for them.

And of course a reasonable person could think we had a chance to beat Virginia. We beat the team that beat them by 30. Did you forget that? Virginia's pace leaves them vulnerable to upsets, they shorten the game for you.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2021, 06:40:08 PM
I deleted and retyped multiple posts... but honestly, I'd be really damn happy if we could bring in a coach that could have the exact same success oscar had the first 7 years here.

Would I like more post season success? Absolutely... But I'd take 2 conference championships every 7 years for the rest of my life.

If he was just decent the last 2 seasons, he could probably stays here for the rest of his coaching life... but these lows are too low, and I don't think anyone believes he can dig himself out of it or that he deserves another full rebuild.

Yeah, this is oscar's issue. I also still think he didn't earn the chance to decimate the roster, twice.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 21, 2021, 07:00:07 PM
The conference championships are possibly more flukey/asterisk-y than the elite 8.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2021, 07:52:36 PM
The conference championships are possibly more flukey/asterisk-y than the elite 8.

LOL
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LimpingCleanIbis-small.gif)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 21, 2021, 09:03:51 PM
12-13 was when we still had all the Frank guys, blew a chance to clinch a share of the 'ship only to have the squawks eff up later that night and end with the same record allowing fans to run around the bars sarcastically forcing joint celebrations onto squawks enraged that the tiebreaker only counted toward conference tourney seeding.  The squawks went on to hand us a 3rd L in that tourney, and we went on to lose to LaSalle.

18-19 is when the squawks sucked historic ass allowing not just us but also texas rough ridin' tech to beat them in the standings by 2 whole games.  Tech and us had split the regular season series, but we lost to flood aggie in the conference tourney before being able to get the rubber game, and we went on to lose to Irvine. 

Especially in that system where 20% of the teams competing will claim the championship, it's pretty much right on pace that we'd get two over the course of a decade.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 21, 2021, 10:58:30 PM
What's the buyout?

We should offer to match whatever Jamar's trashcan receipt said he was wired from his old coach.  That's where this downward spiral started.  Would be a super good fitting end.  Full circle.

It's a great post, but we did win two conference championships and have an elite 8 after that. You gotta go back 39 years before the trashcan lie to 1973 to find an elite 8 and two conference championships.

i can't separate the elite 8 from the fact that it only happened because the 1 seed lost to a 16 for the first and only time ever in the tournament. No reasonable person could argue we would have beat Virginia had they taken care of business against UMBC. Had it not been for that ridiculous fortune, it would have been another year of oh look an early exit from the NCAA tourney.

You can't because you don't want to.

We did beat the team that many people had as a favorite to go to the final four out of that region, and we beat them at a glorified home game for them.

And of course a reasonable person could think we had a chance to beat Virginia. We beat the team that beat them by 30. Did you forget that? Virginia's pace leaves them vulnerable to upsets, they shorten the game for you.

i don't want to because its absurd. Virginia was not given the 1 seed b/c they were a blue blood media darling always getting the benefit of the doubt...they were given the one seed because they were one of the best teams in the country (i think they were the 1 national seed as well? can't remember, doesn't really matter) but anyway you don't get to be a one seed because you occasionally poop your pants against the UMBC's of the world, but hey that's the exposed ventilation shaft to our death star, dems da breaks. No. They lost because they overlooked the game because up until that point they historically had a 100% chance of winning that game. The kentucky game was the outlier. We otherwise had the most pillow soft road to the final four in the history of ever and we got tripped up by (checks notes) Loyola Chicago? And it wasn't even close that game was out of reach before halftime. Its possible we still get to the E8 even if we played Virginia, you say? Miss me with that nonsense you're getting your clown makeup all over your keyboard. go squirt some seltzer water out of a flower lapel
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 21, 2021, 11:14:46 PM
12-13 was when we still had all the Frank guys, blew a chance to clinch a share of the 'ship only to have the squawks eff up later that night and end with the same record allowing fans to run around the bars sarcastically forcing joint celebrations onto squawks enraged that the tiebreaker only counted toward conference tourney seeding.  The squawks went on to hand us a 3rd L in that tourney, and we went on to lose to LaSalle.

18-19 is when the squawks sucked historic ass allowing not just us but also texas rough ridin' tech to beat them in the standings by 2 whole games.  Tech and us had split the regular season series, but we lost to flood aggie in the conference tourney before being able to get the rubber game, and we went on to lose to Irvine. 

Especially in that system where 20% of the teams competing will claim the championship, it's pretty much right on pace that we'd get two over the course of a decade.

So, what you said is:

2012-13: Tied for first going into the final day of the regular season and pulled out a Championship.
2018-19: Tied for first with the second best team in the country, who we split with.

2 very good seasons and Conference Championships earned.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 21, 2021, 11:51:40 PM
12-13 was when we still had all the Frank guys, blew a chance to clinch a share of the 'ship only to have the squawks eff up later that night and end with the same record allowing fans to run around the bars sarcastically forcing joint celebrations onto squawks enraged that the tiebreaker only counted toward conference tourney seeding.  The squawks went on to hand us a 3rd L in that tourney, and we went on to lose to LaSalle.

18-19 is when the squawks sucked historic ass allowing not just us but also texas rough ridin' tech to beat them in the standings by 2 whole games.  Tech and us had split the regular season series, but we lost to flood aggie in the conference tourney before being able to get the rubber game, and we went on to lose to Irvine. 

Especially in that system where 20% of the teams competing will claim the championship, it's pretty much right on pace that we'd get two over the course of a decade.

So, what you said is:

2012-13: Tied for first going into the final day of the regular season and pulled out a Championship.
2018-19: Tied for first with the second best team in the country, who we split with.

2 very good seasons and Conference Championships earned.

I suppose you can use whatever perspective you want. Each was a function of squawks rough ridin' up elsewhere. But the main thing is that I don’t give as much value to championships that are won by 20% of the teams competing as I do a championship won by 6-10% of the teams competing.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 22, 2021, 12:00:28 AM
When I was looking for the standings and schedule for the later one, I started by searching for 17-18 and then trying 16-17. But holy crap, it wasn’t even 2 years ago! Not sure if it’s COVID time warp that makes it feel so long ago, or just that it’d be impossible that immediately preceding a 17-33 stretch, they were hoisting a troph (simultaneously to tech hoisting the same).
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2021, 12:24:28 AM
12-13 was when we still had all the Frank guys, blew a chance to clinch a share of the 'ship only to have the squawks eff up later that night and end with the same record allowing fans to run around the bars sarcastically forcing joint celebrations onto squawks enraged that the tiebreaker only counted toward conference tourney seeding.  The squawks went on to hand us a 3rd L in that tourney, and we went on to lose to LaSalle.

18-19 is when the squawks sucked historic ass allowing not just us but also texas rough ridin' tech to beat them in the standings by 2 whole games.  Tech and us had split the regular season series, but we lost to flood aggie in the conference tourney before being able to get the rubber game, and we went on to lose to Irvine. 

Especially in that system where 20% of the teams competing will claim the championship, it's pretty much right on pace that we'd get two over the course of a decade.

So, what you said is:

2012-13: Tied for first going into the final day of the regular season and pulled out a Championship.
2018-19: Tied for first with the second best team in the country, who we split with.

2 very good seasons and Conference Championships earned.

I'm not even going to read an elongated explanation as to how the results of an 18 game season was somehow a fluke, TWICE! It's an absurd notion that I won't even entertain. That right there is when smart people think really dumb things. The fluke wasn't the first place team losing to a bad team on the last day of the season, the fluke was the other 17 games??? Like I said, dumb.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 22, 2021, 12:58:07 AM
If we lose The Streak and can oscar's ass, his agent and gene keady (still alive?) will definitely promote that he was The Big 12 Champion twice to help him get his next gig. It will be fun to see who goes for it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on January 22, 2021, 10:44:36 AM
oscar creates such a weird space to be in.  I mean, his outcomes merit we either fire him or name something after him.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: KITNfury on January 22, 2021, 10:57:16 AM
oscar creates such a weird space to be in.  I mean, his outcomes merit we either fire him or name something after him.
It is weird.

If I had confidence he could win another conference champy with this group, I would give no shits about last year, this year or the next couple. He just does not inspire any confidence with me, though.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 22, 2021, 11:01:55 AM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: CNS on January 22, 2021, 11:17:48 AM
I would prefer we fire him regardless.  I hate watching basketball that is 62-53.  Its the worst.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 22, 2021, 11:37:18 AM
12-13 was when we still had all the Frank guys, blew a chance to clinch a share of the 'ship only to have the squawks eff up later that night and end with the same record allowing fans to run around the bars sarcastically forcing joint celebrations onto squawks enraged that the tiebreaker only counted toward conference tourney seeding.  The squawks went on to hand us a 3rd L in that tourney, and we went on to lose to LaSalle.

18-19 is when the squawks sucked historic ass allowing not just us but also texas rough ridin' tech to beat them in the standings by 2 whole games.  Tech and us had split the regular season series, but we lost to flood aggie in the conference tourney before being able to get the rubber game, and we went on to lose to Irvine. 

Especially in that system where 20% of the teams competing will claim the championship, it's pretty much right on pace that we'd get two over the course of a decade.

So, what you said is:

2012-13: Tied for first going into the final day of the regular season and pulled out a Championship.
2018-19: Tied for first with the second best team in the country, who we split with.

2 very good seasons and Conference Championships earned.

I suppose you can use whatever perspective you want. Each was a function of squawks rough ridin' up elsewhere. But the main thing is that I don’t give as much value to championships that are won by 20% of the teams competing as I do a championship won by 6-10% of the teams competing.

K-State went 14-4 in both Big 12 Championship seasons. Since the round robin started, 14-4 wins the conference 5 out of 9 times, multiple times it wins it outright. Having someone else "eff it up elsewhere" has very little to do with it.

No coach at K-State has even come remotely close to those 2 conference seasons at K-State in 30+ years.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: KITNfury on January 22, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
Also nobody has had the lows oscar has had, which is notable.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 22, 2021, 12:27:37 PM
K-State went 14-4 in both Big 12 Championship seasons. Since the round robin started, 14-4 wins the conference 5 out of 9 times, multiple times it wins it outright. Having someone else "eff it up elsewhere" has very little to do with it.

No coach at K-State has even come remotely close to those 2 conference seasons at K-State in 30+ years.

Not just anyone else, the squawks and their however many sta1ght.  We, like others who'd tied them in the past and like tech who finished ahead of them the other time, benefited from their ineptitude those years.

I probably erred in mixing the flukey and asterisk-y adjectives.  The E8, in a vacuum, is more flukey because it came to be in large part due to the only 16 beating a 1 ever.  What I'm taking about more is how I view the 2 accomplishments that are used and will be used to justify oscar's current and next employment - the E8 and the 2 conference championships. 

While the E8 was flukey, a lot of E8's can be flukey.  An E8 may not carry much weight to hiring people anyway because they know that inherently they can be flukey.  It's 3 wins in a tournament that is popular because of upsets and bracket pools.

As a hiring person in an imaginary world where I'd even look at oscar, I'd side-eye more the 2 'ships, because 1/5 of the teams in the league won "it" those years, the first being with the prior staff's players and the second when ku was historically bad.  Each was followed by an immediate ncaa tourney flame-out and thereafter the program got blown to hell (separately, twice!).

He will present and be presented as 2-time Big 12 Champion oscar weber, and it's up to whoever has to hire and pay him to decide what weight that carries.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 22, 2021, 12:48:42 PM
Tournament is a crap shot, I just care that a coach can get you there consistently.  That 18-19 was the best we have ever had defensively and would have made a run with a healthy Claws.  oscar deserves to be fired because he whiffed on basically 3 straight recruiting classes, got a decent one and then whiffed again this year.  He is as an elite scout but can’t close most of the time.  He’s too stubborn to adapt so he is going to get the same fate he got at Illinois.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 22, 2021, 01:01:30 PM
Also nobody has had the lows oscar has had, which is notable.

Yup, and it's why he needs to be let go right now (like after the season or whenever the buyout drops or whatever).

Can Gene do it similar to Bill? Just pay the buyout but announce it as a retirement?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Brock Landers on January 22, 2021, 01:07:03 PM
oscar creates such a weird space to be in.  I mean, his outcomes merit we either fire him or name something after him.

Compromise - we put a statue of oscar up outside the 'Gon but the statue of him is where one arm is holding 2 trophies and the other arm is holding a box of his office belongings after getting fired. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 22, 2021, 01:16:12 PM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

it's not odd to put up with someone whom you like when they make mistakes or have shortcomings.  oscar's problem is and always has been that no one likes him.  he's unlikable.  we're no different than illinois fans or any other fanbase.  being liked is a big part of being a head coach.  selling yourself and the program you're in charge of to recruits and the fanbase who pays your bills.  if you can't do that, then you're oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 22, 2021, 02:02:02 PM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: KITNfury on January 22, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
oscar creates such a weird space to be in.  I mean, his outcomes merit we either fire him or name something after him.

Compromise - we put a statue of oscar up outside the 'Gon but the statue of him is where one arm is holding 2 trophies and the other arm is holding a box of his office belongings after getting fired.
:lol:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on January 22, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

it's not odd to put up with someone whom you like when they make mistakes or have shortcomings.  oscar's problem is and always has been that no one likes him.  he's unlikable.  we're no different than illinois fans or any other fanbase.  being liked is a big part of being a head coach.  selling yourself and the program you're in charge of to recruits and the fanbase who pays your bills.  if you can't do that, then you're oscar.

Yes. This exactly.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 22, 2021, 04:52:37 PM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

Lol, shut up.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 22, 2021, 04:59:49 PM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

it's not odd to put up with someone whom you like when they make mistakes or have shortcomings.  oscar's problem is and always has been that no one likes him.  he's unlikable.  we're no different than illinois fans or any other fanbase.  being liked is a big part of being a head coach.  selling yourself and the program you're in charge of to recruits and the fanbase who pays your bills.  if you can't do that, then you're oscar.

oscar is very unlikable. We undervalue oscar's successes because he is unlikable. I'd venture to say his roster attrition/retention issues are a reflection of that as well?

I am not a fan of oscar. I am, however, a fan of many aspects of his first 7 years here.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 22, 2021, 06:53:57 PM
oscar just doesn't have the charisma of someone like LHC Bill Snyder.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on January 22, 2021, 09:04:39 PM
oscar just doesn't have the charisma of someone like LHC Bill Snyder.

Not even close.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: KITNfury on January 23, 2021, 06:41:57 PM
We get blown out by over 20 and nobody gives a crap. He gotta go
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 23, 2021, 06:44:13 PM
We get blown out by over 20 and nobody gives a crap. He gotta go

Gene is going to cull him in April don’t worry.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 23, 2021, 06:46:51 PM
He'll be fired for lack of charisma.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 23, 2021, 07:01:49 PM
If we’re excusing his approach to COVID, and we have so far, he should be fired in the tunnel after the next home loss.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 23, 2021, 08:22:24 PM
charisma is one thing
yeast is another
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: stunted on January 23, 2021, 08:30:14 PM
Things definitely feel way worse than it should be. It’s time to stop
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Spracne on January 23, 2021, 09:37:28 PM
lol. You losers ain't firing oscar the oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 23, 2021, 09:42:48 PM
lol. You losers ain't firing oscar the oscar.

No Gene will do it on our behalf
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 24, 2021, 12:13:09 PM
Been out scored by 119 in conference play.

-14.5 per game, not per loss, that’s per game, and it could honestly get worse.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 24, 2021, 04:36:21 PM
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/eli-manning-was-an-all-time-average-qb/
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 24, 2021, 08:24:44 PM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

It's a statically correct one, with no opinion baked into it. The burden is on you at least try to prove that it's dumb. If you make the argument I think you'll make just know that it will ultimately be an indictment on frank for never winning a conference championship tho.

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

I'm not sure I'd want to be defending any side that essentially calls a conference championship or elite 8 a fluke.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 24, 2021, 08:25:08 PM
oscar just doesn't have the charisma of someone like LHC Bill Snyder.

Great post.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 24, 2021, 08:48:03 PM


K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

It's a statically correct one, with no opinion baked into it. The burden is on you at least try to prove that it's dumb. If you make the argument I think you'll make just know that it will ultimately be an indictment on frank for never winning a conference championship tho.

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

I'm not sure I'd want to be defending any side that essentially calls a conference championship or elite 8 a fluke.

Great teams get high seeds and are rewarded by playing worse teams. oscar got lucky to play those seeds in 2018, Frank earned it in 2010.

I agree the conference titles weren't flukes though. I've been consistent in saying that they matter more than oscar's crappy (and great!) tourney appearances
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 24, 2021, 09:00:28 PM
Yes in 2010 the cats played chalk every game except they played a 6 seed instead of a 3... so 3 points more than the hardest possible average seed you can play as a 2 seed.  The ‘18 cats let’s see...+15 points just in one game. But hey it’s an average seed of 9.6 vs 9.3 so like, same thing
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 24, 2021, 09:10:53 PM
It’s remarkable seeing otherwise intelligent people do mental gymnastics to avoid giving oscar credit for his success here.   He got into the dance in 2014 as a 9 seed and got the national runner up as an 8 seed in the first round.  The tournament is a crap shoot, the only thing you can ask of a coach is to get there consistently.  What you can’t do is recruit a P5 worthy class once in the span of 4 years, you can’t coach your way out of that.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on January 24, 2021, 09:13:25 PM
the kenpoms for both those teams and their opponents also tell a slightly different story.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 24, 2021, 09:15:00 PM
the kenpoms for both those teams and their opponents also tell a slightly different story.


What does the kenpom say for 18-19 vs 09-10?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 24, 2021, 09:17:30 PM
K-State went 14-4 in both Big 12 Championship seasons. Since the round robin started, 14-4 wins the conference 5 out of 9 times, multiple times it wins it outright. Having someone else "eff it up elsewhere" has very little to do with it.

No coach at K-State has even come remotely close to those 2 conference seasons at K-State in 30+ years.

Not just anyone else, the squawks and their however many sta1ght.  We, like others who'd tied them in the past and like tech who finished ahead of them the other time, benefited from their ineptitude those years.

I probably erred in mixing the flukey and asterisk-y adjectives.  The E8, in a vacuum, is more flukey because it came to be in large part due to the only 16 beating a 1 ever.  What I'm taking about more is how I view the 2 accomplishments that are used and will be used to justify oscar's current and next employment - the E8 and the 2 conference championships. 

While the E8 was flukey, a lot of E8's can be flukey.  An E8 may not carry much weight to hiring people anyway because they know that inherently they can be flukey.  It's 3 wins in a tournament that is popular because of upsets and bracket pools.

As a hiring person in an imaginary world where I'd even look at oscar, I'd side-eye more the 2 'ships, because 1/5 of the teams in the league won "it" those years, the first being with the prior staff's players and the second when ku was historically bad.  Each was followed by an immediate ncaa tourney flame-out and thereafter the program got blown to hell (separately, twice!).

He will present and be presented as 2-time Big 12 Champion oscar weber, and it's up to whoever has to hire and pay him to decide what weight that carries.

Everyone do whatever you want.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on January 24, 2021, 09:20:03 PM
What does the kenpom say for 18-19 vs 09-10?

the '10 team was better?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: tdaver on January 24, 2021, 09:38:51 PM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 24, 2021, 09:43:28 PM
What does the kenpom say for 18-19 vs 09-10?

the '10 team was better?

I was thinking they were very similar but that the 18-19 team was slightly better defensively.   Looks like the 09-10 team was considerably better on offense and slightly worse on defense. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 24, 2021, 11:08:28 PM


It’s remarkable seeing otherwise intelligent people do mental gymnastics to avoid giving oscar credit for his success here.

Who?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 24, 2021, 11:59:19 PM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom

You don't think I knew the accomplishments of those teams when I posted that? When taken into historical context those teams will be looked like the same damn team. Neither won a conference title and both made runs to the elite 8 and lost to teams they should have beaten when they got there. If you want to say the '10 team was better because they had a better kenpom then you have to give in to the fact that they also underachieved, for the entire season. A team with a kempom of 6 had no business losing 8 games and have their season ended by a 5 loss horizon league team.

I don't want to look at the '10 team as underachievers so I'm going to continue to remember them like I do the '18 team, two fun teams that played two of the most entertaining sweet 16 games we've ever seen but went ice cold when they were one step away.

For the record the '19 team, with the exact same players as the '18 team, was the best team we've had since the '88 team.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 25, 2021, 12:08:10 AM


It’s remarkable seeing otherwise intelligent people do mental gymnastics to avoid giving oscar credit for his success here.

Who?

Trim definitely, chi possibly
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 25, 2021, 12:10:59 AM
K-State went 14-4 in both Big 12 Championship seasons. Since the round robin started, 14-4 wins the conference 5 out of 9 times, multiple times it wins it outright. Having someone else "eff it up elsewhere" has very little to do with it.

No coach at K-State has even come remotely close to those 2 conference seasons at K-State in 30+ years.

Not just anyone else, the squawks and their however many sta1ght.  We, like others who'd tied them in the past and like tech who finished ahead of them the other time, benefited from their ineptitude those years.

I probably erred in mixing the flukey and asterisk-y adjectives.  The E8, in a vacuum, is more flukey because it came to be in large part due to the only 16 beating a 1 ever.  What I'm taking about more is how I view the 2 accomplishments that are used and will be used to justify oscar's current and next employment - the E8 and the 2 conference championships. 

While the E8 was flukey, a lot of E8's can be flukey.  An E8 may not carry much weight to hiring people anyway because they know that inherently they can be flukey.  It's 3 wins in a tournament that is popular because of upsets and bracket pools.

As a hiring person in an imaginary world where I'd even look at oscar, I'd side-eye more the 2 'ships, because 1/5 of the teams in the league won "it" those years, the first being with the prior staff's players and the second when ku was historically bad.  Each was followed by an immediate ncaa tourney flame-out and thereafter the program got blown to hell (separately, twice!).

He will present and be presented as 2-time Big 12 Champion oscar weber, and it's up to whoever has to hire and pay him to decide what weight that carries.

Everyone do whatever you want.

He turns 65 before the next season starts, safe to say that if he gets another job coaching whenever he's done here, the merits or lack thereof of his elite 8s and conference championships will be secondary.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 25, 2021, 12:34:29 AM


It’s remarkable seeing otherwise intelligent people do mental gymnastics to avoid giving oscar credit for his success here.

Who?

Trim definitely, chi possibly

I give oscar no credit, but I don't think I'm "avoiding" giving him credit or doing any mental gymnastics.  I simply give him no credit for the reasons I stated.  Fortunately for oscar, my evaluation hasn't mattered and won't!

He turns 65 before the next season starts, safe to say that if he gets another job coaching whenever he's done here, the merits or lack thereof of his elite 8s and conference championships will be secondary.

Should've added "retain" to "hire."  They'll be considered by gene.  They shouldn't.  He'll have lost The Streak.  If he somehow keeps The Streak, he should stay.  He's doing exactly what's expected.

Again, that's all assuming he shouldn't have already been fired for being out standing on the court with a mask on his chin.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 25, 2021, 12:36:49 AM
Did anyone here go to a 2018 tournament game?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: tdaver on January 25, 2021, 01:19:47 AM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom

You don't think I knew the accomplishments of those teams when I posted that? When taken into historical context those teams will be looked like the same damn team.
...
For the record the '19 team, with the exact same players as the '18 team, was the best team we've had since the '88 team.

Historical context?  Who cares!  We’re kstate fans talking recent kstate hoops that we all experienced together.  Most of us like 2010 more than the 2018 because they were a much better team.  Period.  But that’s not to say we didn’t enjoy the hell out of that 2018 run as well.

If you want to say 2019 isn’t appreciated enough because of oscar, that’s an argument I can agree with.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 25, 2021, 03:14:41 AM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom

You don't think I knew the accomplishments of those teams when I posted that? When taken into historical context those teams will be looked like the same damn team.
...
For the record the '19 team, with the exact same players as the '18 team, was the best team we've had since the '88 team.

Historical context?  Who cares!  We’re kstate fans talking recent kstate hoops that we all experienced together.  Most of us like 2010 more than the 2018 because they were a much better team.  Period.  But that’s not to say we didn’t enjoy the hell out of that 2018 run as well.

If you want to say 2019 isn’t appreciated enough because of oscar, that’s an argument I can agree with.

But the historical context was the point of what I was saying when I stated that those teams were the same.

God, this conversation is gonna cause me to shine a bright light on a team I liked a lot, but looking back I'm not sure that team was as fun. Honestly, they disappointed us in big moments, more than once. Lost to assy Ole Miss in the Paradise Jam, lost to KU three damn times including in the Big 12 tournament championship, and they beat the holy eff out of us in the piss barn, that embarrassing loss to flood aggie on Senior day that we thought might have cost us Oklahoma City, and of course going out the way we did against Butler. In fact if they didn't get me an incredible weekend with my gE buds in Oklahoma City, it might have been the most disappointing team of our lifetime. That team definitely gets credit in retrospect that they probably didn't earn. That was a classic frank team, some great times marked by frustrating bullshit.

The '11 team was much more fun for me. The Sports Illustrated cover, The CBE, the Valentine's Day massacre, Frankuary, that fat Utah State fan crying in the stands, wild bill? Pullen breaking the scoring record. If not for bitch ass Colorado that would have been the goat team.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 25, 2021, 07:26:52 AM
Having witnessed Tom Asbury attempt to beat NC State's defense from the 2nd row behind the K-State bench in Reynolds Coliseum.

The effort against WVU was just as bad, if not worse.

9 years into the Weber tenure and he's absolutely clown suited at home by a team that hasn't played in two weeks.

But there's people still defending the guy.   They actually exist.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 25, 2021, 07:28:01 AM
Having witnessed Tom Asbury attempt to beat NC State's defense from the 2nd row behind the K-State bench in Reynolds Coliseum.

The effort against WVU was just as bad, if not worse.

9 years into the Weber tenure and he's absolutely clown suited at home by a team that hasn't played in two weeks.

But there's people still defending the guy.   They actually exist.



I haven’t run across one in the wild yet but I’m sure you are right
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 25, 2021, 07:28:25 AM
I was well aware of the 2010 kenpom ranking at the time. I'd since forgotten and thought of those two E8 teams in basically the same way. It won't be long before I forget again.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 25, 2021, 07:31:36 AM
Having witnessed Tom Asbury attempt to beat NC State's defense from the 2nd row behind the K-State bench in Reynolds Coliseum.

The effort against WVU was just as bad, if not worse.

9 years into the Weber tenure and he's absolutely clown suited at home by a team that hasn't played in two weeks.

But there's people still defending the guy.   They actually exist.



I haven’t run across one in the wild yet but I’m sure you are right

KSO has several Weberites still trying to put a fight.  Inserting a lot of FUD about having to find a new coach. 

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 25, 2021, 07:33:24 AM
Did anyone here go to a 2018 tournament game?

I went to the Creighton game
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 25, 2021, 07:50:54 AM
He's doing exactly what's expected.

Yeah, oscar is doing exactly what we should have expected him to do when we hired him. His last season at Illinois wasn't quite as bad as this one, but it was bad enough that this season shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.

But different AD's so whatever
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 25, 2021, 08:13:28 AM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

Lol, shut up.

If anything, your stat shows how flukey it was.

The 2010 had an average seeding like that because they earned it by being the 2 seed. 
The 2018 team received the same difficulty of run by being beneficiaries of the greatest upset in NCAA tournament history. 

The 2010 earned the easy run and the 2018 team fell ass backwards into it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 25, 2021, 08:21:02 AM
I don't care that oscar gets credit for it, he can only play who advances in the bracket.  I just think it's disingenuous to pretend that the 2018 team wasn't the beneficiaries of the flukiest NCAA tournament game of all time.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 08:49:46 AM
I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 25, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 25, 2021, 09:11:01 AM
I don't care that oscar gets credit for it, he can only play who advances in the bracket.  I just think it's disingenuous to pretend that the 2018 team wasn't the beneficiaries of the flukiest NCAA tournament game of all time.

2014 draw was against an 8 seed Kentucky that made it to the title game, you get good and bad breaks in the tournament.   
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 25, 2021, 09:17:55 AM
I don't care that oscar gets credit for it, he can only play who advances in the bracket.  I just think it's disingenuous to pretend that the 2018 team wasn't the beneficiaries of the flukiest NCAA tournament game of all time.

2014 draw was against an 8 seed Kentucky that made it to the title game, you get good and bad breaks in the tournament.
Yes and regular season success leads to top seeds and makes those first and second round breaks mostly irrelevant
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 09:28:47 AM
I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 25, 2021, 09:30:20 AM
When you earn a 9 seed, every team you play in the tournament typically is going to have had a better season than you did. That's not bad luck.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 25, 2021, 09:42:27 AM
I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.

I never said it was dumb to value them however you want.  That's up to you.  That seed statistic is dumb though and proves the opposite of your point if anything.  A 9 seed getting essentially the same path as a 2 seed is flukey. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 25, 2021, 10:01:02 AM
This is all good prep for analyzing the press release announcing oscar’s retention or assuming there isn’t one for a non-event, oscar’s bio in next year’s media guide.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 10:02:49 AM
I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.

I never said it was dumb to value them however you want.  That's up to you.  That seed statistic is dumb though and proves the opposite of your point if anything.  A 9 seed getting essentially the same path as a 2 seed is flukey.

The first two rounds, but the Sweet 16 was more flukey in 2010 (if flukey is the word we're seriously running with)

2018 played a 5 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 4... and 2010 played a 6 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 3.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 10:08:56 AM
This is all good prep for analyzing the press release announcing oscar’s retention or assuming there isn’t one for a non-event, oscar’s bio in next year’s media guide.

It's so losery that we are arguing value of Elite 8 appearances to begin with. BUT, members of the fan base actually valuing one Elite 8 over another (while also hinting regular season/conference results don't mean anything. But they do for seeding? LOL?) is why they should not be apart of the conversation on retaining a coach or not.

Either way, I don't think there's a single person here that believes oscar deserves another year.



Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 25, 2021, 10:13:43 AM
When you earn a 9 seed, every team you play in the tournament typically is going to have had a better season than you did. That's not bad luck.

Lots of 8 seeds are the 4th best team in kenpom
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 25, 2021, 10:23:58 AM
I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.

I never said it was dumb to value them however you want.  That's up to you.  That seed statistic is dumb though and proves the opposite of your point if anything.  A 9 seed getting essentially the same path as a 2 seed is flukey.

The first two rounds, but the Sweet 16 was more flukey in 2010 (if flukey is the word we're seriously running with)

2018 played a 5 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 4... and 2010 played a 6 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 3.



Well once you discount the biggest upset in NCAA history, yeah the runs get similar.  In all honesty, the Kentucky win might be the best tournament win KSU has had in a long time.  The rest of the run was against trash.

I think totally reasonable people can value E8s the same.  That's a different conversation from using seeding to say the two runs are equal.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 10:37:42 AM
That's a different conversation from using seeding to say the two runs are equal.

I'm not sure why people think K-State would've lost to Virginia, simple math shows K-State would've beat Virginia by 27! So, going 8 seed, 1 seed, 5 seed, would've been a lot of fun. Either way....

2010 vs. 2018
15 seed = 16 seed
7 seed = 8 seed
6 seed = 5 seed

Looks kind of equal.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 25, 2021, 10:47:28 AM
They are very close to equal.  One team earned the right to play a 15 and one team got the luckiest break in the history of the NCAA tournament to face the 16.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 25, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
one team got the luckiest break in the history of the NCAA tournament to face the 16.

Stuck the landing on that Pommel Horse routine bravo bravo
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 25, 2021, 11:14:50 AM
I'm a results based guy. I either value seasons for the regular/conference success, or post season success.

oscar has the best regular season/conference season successes of any K-State coach in 30+ years. As a program, there were two seasons we had recently where the team was not close to winning the conference (4 games back in 2009-10, only 3 games out in 2017-18) but made runs to the Elite 8 in the post season. I value those 2 seasons the same.

That's totally fair, but I don't think it means people differentiating those postseason runs are wrong.

You said it's a very dumb take to value two Elite 8 appearances similarly, though. Which to me, is absolutely hilarious.

If the Chiefs would've lost yesterday, it would've had the same value as their AFC Championship loss 2 years ago.

I never said it was dumb to value them however you want.  That's up to you.  That seed statistic is dumb though and proves the opposite of your point if anything.  A 9 seed getting essentially the same path as a 2 seed is flukey.

The first two rounds, but the Sweet 16 was more flukey in 2010 (if flukey is the word we're seriously running with)

2018 played a 5 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 4... and 2010 played a 6 seed in the sweet 16, which should've been a 3.



Well once you discount the biggest upset in NCAA history, yeah the runs get similar.  In all honesty, the Kentucky win might be the best tournament win KSU has had in a long time.  The rest of the run was against trash.

I think totally reasonable people can value E8s the same.  That's a different conversation from using seeding to say the two runs are equal.

Wait a damn minute? The rest of the run? The rest of the run was oscar and the boys winning a game against a 9 seed we were underdogs against and most of this insane anti-oscar board thought we would lose. That was followed by beating the team that just beat the #1 team in the country by almost 30 points. That game was in no way looked at like it was a sure thing, this was four years ago, it's real easy to get the receipts on this. And yes, you're right, the Kentucky win was K-State's best tournament win since the Oregon State win in 1981 or whenever it was.

Calling those first two wins trash is hilariously bad, but those things happen when you're painted into the corner of trying to devalue an elite 8 run at Kansas State.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 25, 2021, 11:20:23 AM
I rank oscar's 2019 results above his 2018 results.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 25, 2021, 11:31:56 AM
I rank oscar's 2019 results above his 2018 results.

Yea, that team was much better.   Damn those tiny bones in Dean Wades foot :frown:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 25, 2021, 11:41:50 AM

Wait a damn minute? The rest of the run? The rest of the run was oscar and the boys winning a game against a 9 seed we were underdogs against and most of this insane anti-oscar board thought we would lose. That was followed by beating the team that just beat the #1 team in the country by almost 30 points. That game was in no way looked at like it was a sure thing, this was four years ago, it's real easy to get the receipts on this. And yes, you're right, the Kentucky win was K-State's best tournament win since the Oregon State win in 1981 or whenever it was.

Calling those first two wins trash is hilariously bad, but those things happen when you're painted into the corner of trying to devalue an elite 8 run at Kansas State.
First of all, I'm not trying to devalue anything.  Say all E8s are equal, I don't care. 

If you are going to dissect the runs though, don't pretend that the seeding that 2010 earned is the same as the path 2018 got lucky with.

On the day the brackets were announced UMBC was literally rated as the trashiest trash in the tournament, thus why they were playing Virginia.  We played them instead of the team that was literally rated as the best in the tournament.  Everybody was pumped to play UMBC precisely because they were by far worse than Virginia.  If you think Creighton is a great win, fine, but they are the definition of tournament mediocrity with an 8 seed (we were the 9).  We did earn playing tournament mediocrity in the first round though!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 25, 2021, 11:53:42 AM
https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/oscar-weber/1566

What my point revolved around more is, do you think the above bio fairly describes oscar's accomplishments or the oscar experience from a hiring/employing perspective?  Nothing in there is a lie, although we know much more about the context of things than that bio gets into, particularly with respect to the E8 and championships.  It's just like a resume; it obviously puts things in the best light, but the hiring/employing party does more than just accept the resume at face value without digging into it more.

I was actually surprised they were as straight as they were re: the sharing of the championships.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 25, 2021, 12:25:32 PM
Plus we need a 2010 kenpom banner.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 25, 2021, 12:32:06 PM
I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.

lol - you can just admit your stat was dumb.  This isn't a hill you have to die on.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: cfbandyman on January 25, 2021, 12:52:48 PM
K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom

You don't think I knew the accomplishments of those teams when I posted that? When taken into historical context those teams will be looked like the same damn team.
...
For the record the '19 team, with the exact same players as the '18 team, was the best team we've had since the '88 team.

Historical context?  Who cares!  We’re kstate fans talking recent kstate hoops that we all experienced together.  Most of us like 2010 more than the 2018 because they were a much better team.  Period.  But that’s not to say we didn’t enjoy the hell out of that 2018 run as well.

If you want to say 2019 isn’t appreciated enough because of oscar, that’s an argument I can agree with.

But the historical context was the point of what I was saying when I stated that those teams were the same.

God, this conversation is gonna cause me to shine a bright light on a team I liked a lot, but looking back I'm not sure that team was as fun. Honestly, they disappointed us in big moments, more than once. Lost to assy Ole Miss in the Paradise Jam, lost to KU three damn times including in the Big 12 tournament championship, and they beat the holy eff out of us in the piss barn, that embarrassing loss to flood aggie on Senior day that we thought might have cost us Oklahoma City, and of course going out the way we did against Butler. In fact if they didn't get me an incredible weekend with my gE buds in Oklahoma City, it might have been the most disappointing team of our lifetime. That team definitely gets credit in retrospect that they probably didn't earn. That was a classic frank team, some great times marked by frustrating bullshit.

The '11 team was much more fun for me. The Sports Illustrated cover, The CBE, the Valentine's Day massacre, Frankuary, that fat Utah State fan crying in the stands, wild bill? Pullen breaking the scoring record. If not for bitch ass Colorado that would have been the goat team.

Colorado was absolutely infuriating that year. But that to me makes them not even close to all timing it because losing to them 3 times is a bigger head scratcher than losing to ku 3 times.

For the most part I agree, I think 2010 gets so much play cause of Xavier game in the S16 which was an all time game, out Jimmer Fredetteing Jimmer in OKC right after Farokamenish daggered ku, and beating #1 Texas. Losing to ku 3 times was practically ridiculous and that iowa state loss, at home, on senior day, was damn near unforgivable. Def a lot of bad with the good.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 02:10:15 PM
I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.

lol - you can just admit your stat was dumb.  This isn't a hill you have to die on.

And your hill is that the 2010 Elite 8 is a better accomplishment because they were seeded better going into the tourney?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 25, 2021, 02:16:18 PM
I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.

lol - you can just admit your stat was dumb.  This isn't a hill you have to die on.

And your hill is that the 2010 Elite 8 is a better accomplishment because they were seeded better going into the tourney?

My hill is that comparing the average seed of competition they faced is dumb because 2010 earned a weak slate by getting a better seed, whereas the 2018 team was very fortunate.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 02:26:07 PM
I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.

lol - you can just admit your stat was dumb.  This isn't a hill you have to die on.

And your hill is that the 2010 Elite 8 is a better accomplishment because they were seeded better going into the tourney?

My hill is that comparing the average seed of competition they faced is dumb because 2010 earned a weak slate by getting a better seed, whereas the 2018 team was very fortunate.

Nobody earns or deserves anything in the NCAA tourney outside of what's in their control. It's March Madness.

My hill was never the average seeding thing.. My hill was that the 2 Elite 8's have the exact same value for the program. Both seasons the team was no where near winning a conference championship (the 2017-18 team was closer than 2009-10), and finished with an Elite 8 appearance. An Elite 8 can't be a positive for one coach, yet somehow a backhanded accomplishment for oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SkinnyBenny on January 25, 2021, 02:54:56 PM
One further frame with which to assess these and which one, if any, is better: how close did the team come to making it to the final four in the actual E8 game? The 2010 team barely lost in the Elite 8 (by 7 points after all the free throws at the end) to Butler, who went on to play for the national championship (and lose only because they missed a last-second shot to Duke).  Meanwhile, in the E8 game for the 2018 team, we got absolutely pasted by 16 the 11 seed Loyola, who would go on to get absolutely rocked by Michigan in the Final Four game.

If you contend that it's a push between the two, look to the game that team lost to knock them out of the tournament, and who they lost it to.

















Also the 2010 team was way better and the tourney run was better and Frank rules and oscar stinks as we've all known since the day he was hired.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 25, 2021, 02:58:53 PM
I want Shooter and ChiCat to role play an after-season meeting with Shooter playing oscar or oscar’s agent and ChiCat playing gene (or how he’d like gene to be).
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 03:09:53 PM
I want Shooter and ChiCat to role play an after-season meeting with Shooter playing oscar or oscar’s agent and ChiCat playing gene (or how he’d like gene to be).

Meh, oscar needs to be fired the second a fiscally responsible plan is presented.

K-State also lost a Final 4 game by something like 30 points. We should definitely make that Final 4 banner smaller than the others.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: DQ12 on January 25, 2021, 03:18:20 PM
Time for oscar to go, but anyone discounting his accomplishments at K-State are idiots and losers imo.  The E8 banner and Dr. Peppers don't give a crap whether you guys think K-State/oscar actually earned them or not.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 25, 2021, 03:19:20 PM
I want Shooter and ChiCat to role play an after-season meeting with Shooter playing oscar or oscar’s agent and ChiCat playing gene (or how he’d like gene to be).

Meh, oscar needs to be fired the second a fiscally responsible plan is presented.

ChiGene, this is an odd approach to negotiations from oscar’s agent, but the ball is now in your fOOD court.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 03:22:08 PM
I want Shooter and ChiCat to role play an after-season meeting with Shooter playing oscar or oscar’s agent and ChiCat playing gene (or how he’d like gene to be).

Meh, oscar needs to be fired the second a fiscally responsible plan is presented.

ChiGene, this is an odd approach to negotiations from oscar’s agent, but the ball is now in your fOOD court.

Show me the buyout money and we'll announce it as a retirement, cool? One other thing, you have to promise me Lowrey is your first interview for the new position
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 25, 2021, 03:24:40 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 03:52:02 PM
I'm at least going to get the Wiki updated soon, so let me know what else we want to cancel because we don't like someone or something.

26 NCAA Tournament Appearances (Removed oscar's 27-31)
17 Conference Championships (oscar's 18th and 19th GTFO)
16 Sweet Sixteens (oscar's 17th? LOL Virginia, doesn't count)
12 Elite Eights (13*, LOL lost by a lot to Sister Jean, so no)
3 Final Fours (4*, but lost by 22)
1 National Championship Appearance
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 25, 2021, 03:55:31 PM
shooter what are you doing dude
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 25, 2021, 04:03:04 PM
Lol...bored in quarantine...hate oscar...love Cats basketball and it’s history
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: mocat on January 25, 2021, 04:12:07 PM
out of all of oscar's losses, i am by far still the most mad about LaSalle
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 25, 2021, 04:54:26 PM
out of all of oscar's losses, i am by far still the most mad about LaSalle

Same. In part because we didn't have a lot of data points so at the time we had no way of knowing that his teams would end up establishing a distinctive pattern of early exits from the NCAA tournament. By the time it happened with UCI it was like well, yeah.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 25, 2021, 06:08:57 PM
out of all of oscar's losses, i am by far still the most mad about LaSalle

I think it hurts so much because he did it to Angel.   
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 25, 2021, 11:30:34 PM
One further frame with which to assess these and which one, if any, is better: how close did the team come to making it to the final four in the actual E8 game? The 2010 team barely lost in the Elite 8 (by 7 points after all the free throws at the end) to Butler, who went on to play for the national championship (and lose only because they missed a last-second shot to Duke).  Meanwhile, in the E8 game for the 2018 team, we got absolutely pasted by 16 the 11 seed Loyola, who would go on to get absolutely rocked by Michigan in the Final Four game.

If you contend that it's a push between the two, look to the game that team lost to knock them out of the tournament, and who they lost it to.

















Also the 2010 team was way better and the tourney run was better and Frank rules and oscar stinks as we've all known since the day he was hired.


I don't care what that margin was, Butler beat our asses. Look at the game flow. We scored 20 first half points, a six point deficit was 12. It's hilarious that we led, one time for 40 seconds, we weren't even tied for that long. That was such a frustrating game to watch, and despite Gordon Hayward I contend they were a trash team who played in the two worst national championship games OAT.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=300862306
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on January 25, 2021, 11:33:31 PM
 :lol: this thread got a whole lotta stupid in it
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 25, 2021, 11:34:36 PM
One further frame with which to assess these and which one, if any, is better: how close did the team come to making it to the final four in the actual E8 game? The 2010 team barely lost in the Elite 8 (by 7 points after all the free throws at the end) to Butler, who went on to play for the national championship (and lose only because they missed a last-second shot to Duke).  Meanwhile, in the E8 game for the 2018 team, we got absolutely pasted by 16 the 11 seed Loyola, who would go on to get absolutely rocked by Michigan in the Final Four game.

If you contend that it's a push between the two, look to the game that team lost to knock them out of the tournament, and who they lost it to.

















Also the 2010 team was way better and the tourney run was better and Frank rules and oscar stinks as we've all known since the day he was hired.


I don't care what that margin was, Butler beat our asses. Look at the game flow. We scored 20 first half points, a six point deficit was 12. It's hilarious that we led, one time for 40 seconds, we weren't even tied for that long. That was such a frustrating game to watch, and despite Gordon Hayward I contend they were a trash team who played in the two worst national championship games OAT.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=300862306
What are you doing dude
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 25, 2021, 11:35:58 PM
Talking about how frustrating that game was and how i never thought we'd win :dunno:

What are you doing, dude?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 25, 2021, 11:38:32 PM
:lol: this thread got a whole lotta stupid in it

It ain't that serious dude, people are talking basketball, that's a good thing, jump in or jump out.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 26, 2021, 12:24:29 AM
ChiGene must be running some numbers before he responds to shooter's disentanglement proposal.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on January 26, 2021, 07:08:30 AM
:lol: this thread got a whole lotta stupid in it

It ain't that serious dude, people are talking basketball, that's a good thing, jump in or jump out.
This is true^

I feel better about it knowing that when healthy Hayward was a borderline top 20 guy in the NBA, but it sucked at the time.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 26, 2021, 07:13:34 AM
Is oscar fired yet?

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 26, 2021, 08:15:17 AM
:lol: this thread got a whole lotta stupid in it

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,pg_1,q_80,w_800/pj4xcijyynne6beefdxt.jpg)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 26, 2021, 09:24:49 AM
12-13 was when we still had all the Frank guys, blew a chance to clinch a share of the 'ship only to have the squawks eff up later that night and end with the same record allowing fans to run around the bars sarcastically forcing joint celebrations onto squawks enraged that the tiebreaker only counted toward conference tourney seeding.  The squawks went on to hand us a 3rd L in that tourney, and we went on to lose to LaSalle.

18-19 is when the squawks sucked historic ass allowing not just us but also texas rough ridin' tech to beat them in the standings by 2 whole games.  Tech and us had split the regular season series, but we lost to flood aggie in the conference tourney before being able to get the rubber game, and we went on to lose to Irvine. 

Especially in that system where 20% of the teams competing will claim the championship, it's pretty much right on pace that we'd get two over the course of a decade.

So, what you said is:

2012-13: Tied for first going into the final day of the regular season and pulled out a Championship.
2018-19: Tied for first with the second best team in the country, who we split with.

2 very good seasons and Conference Championships earned.

I'm not even going to read an elongated explanation as to how the results of an 18 game season was somehow a fluke, TWICE! It's an absurd notion that I won't even entertain. That right there is when smart people think really dumb things. The fluke wasn't the first place team losing to a bad team on the last day of the season, the fluke was the other 17 games??? Like I said, dumb.
2018-19 was such a fun year to be a student and see what had oscar had built. Dean, Barry and Kam on any night had a fair shot at anyone. UC-Irvine was by far the biggest disappointment as my time as a student with basketball. Dean however was injured and unavailable which really took us out of the game because none of our Bigs had the same amount of production.  Some forget that team had been able to have the biggest comeback in school history against WVU to which they were down 21 pts at half.

Trim this is hilarious and to think that oscar even has a chance of getting fired this year is laughable. I think once everyone is able to get back and gel we will see some unexpected close games/wins in the next month. The thing that is crazy is that Luke, Nijel and Bradford hadn't had a practice all together til this week.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2021, 09:49:52 AM
I'm liking this #canceloscar movement that shooter is spearheading
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 26, 2021, 09:56:34 AM
Also Nijel Pack is the guy in this class. It's his team and Davion is a close second.

Davion is by far my favorite player in this class but he is going through growing pains learning the pace of the game. Also think of how much better this team could be if they could rebound consistently. Mike running the Point while Pack has been gone has really hurt this team in January.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 26, 2021, 10:13:11 AM
Trim this is hilarious and to think that oscar even has a chance of getting fired this year is laughable. I think once everyone is able to get back and gel we will see some unexpected close games/wins in the next month. The thing that is crazy is that Luke, Nijel and Bradford hadn't had a practice all together til this week.

You’re a more tolerant hypothetical AD than I. But I agree that it doesn’t appear he will be let go. He should’ve already for his approach to COVID, but that’s been excused. He should be if he indeed loses The Streak, but that doesn’t seem to me on Gene’s radar. Everything else is the oscar KSU wanted.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 26, 2021, 10:17:16 AM
If I'm the AD, I'm not firing him unless I have someone better lined up. I don't even know where to begin with that.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 26, 2021, 10:25:21 AM
What if there are grumblings of multiple players transferring out, it will take another 3-4 years for oscar to rebuild AGAIN, which would require a contract extension to even get recruits to listen.

With where oscar is on his contract, you can fire him and hire a decent mid-major guy for less to counter the buyout, and the money would be a wash after a few years.

If that keeps all these guys on campus, I'd take my chances to see what a new dude can do over the next 2-3 years.

(even if there isn't a threat of players leaving, I still go the mid-major route at this point :googlesNDSUcoach:)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 26, 2021, 10:37:51 AM
Loser

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 26, 2021, 11:09:06 AM
The only games that give us something to lose this season are ISU and maybe the KU games.  Every other game we've proven that we're absolutely terrible and can only go up.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 26, 2021, 11:10:42 AM
Yea kind of makes you wonder if he is just giving Gene the finger and telling him to give him his buyout
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cardiac Cats on January 26, 2021, 11:22:46 AM
What if there are grumblings of multiple players transferring out, it will take another 3-4 years for oscar to rebuild AGAIN, which would require a contract extension to even get recruits to listen.

With where oscar is on his contract, you can fire him and hire a decent mid-major guy for less to counter the buyout, and the money would be a wash after a few years.

If that keeps all these guys on campus, I'd take my chances to see what a new dude can do over the next 2-3 years.

(even if there isn't a threat of players leaving, I still go the mid-major route at this point :googlesNDSUcoach:)


Darian DeVries and he brings his son (6'6" 4* HS Senior point forward) with him. 2019 MVC regular season champions and 13-0 to start this year.

https://247sports.com/player/tucker-devries-46086079/

Toledo/Matt Campbell beat Iowa State, so the Cyclones hired him. Drake beat us this year. Do it Gene.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Stevesie60 on January 26, 2021, 12:10:22 PM
eff it all and hire Underwood for whatever it takes.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 26, 2021, 01:18:59 PM
eff it all and hire Underwood for whatever it takes.

We can’t pay oscar his 2MM buyout lol, Brad’s is 8MM.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 26, 2021, 02:07:39 PM
 Who is to say this team isn't in the top half of the BIG 12 next year, I like to think next year will be a lot better than this year. Like alot.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 26, 2021, 02:13:00 PM
oscar needs to replace shooter as his agent with greg.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 26, 2021, 02:18:20 PM
oscar needs to replace shooter as his agent with greg.
My success threshold for next year is a positive overall record, winning every non con home, and restarting THE STREAK. Give him a bonus under the table if he can finish in the Top 4 of the Big 12 for 2021-22
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 26, 2021, 02:21:28 PM
oscar needs to replace shooter as his agent with greg.
My success threshold for next year is a positive overall record, winning every non con home, and restarting THE STREAK. Give him a bonus under the table if he can finish in the Top 4 of the Big 12 for 2021-22
If he achieves under the table bonus, then next year a regular season conference championship is expected to be competed for.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SkinnyBenny on January 26, 2021, 02:43:48 PM
oscar needs to replace shooter as his agent with greg.
My success threshold for next year is a positive overall record, winning every non con home, and restarting THE STREAK. Give him a bonus under the table if he can finish in the Top 4 of the Big 12 for 2021-22

Greg, I like you but this is incredibly losery. Oscar started at K-State what, seven seasons ago? Eight? This one and last year we finished/will finish either dead last or nearly last in the Big XII.  Oscar has been here forever and we're as bad as we've eer been. We're about to snap a 50+ year streak which is basically a layup. "If we have a positive overall record next year" is a preeeetty low bar for someone going into their eighth or ninth season at a school. Fire this dude yesterday.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 26, 2021, 03:06:57 PM
oscar needs to replace shooter as his agent with greg.

I accompanied oscar and Megan to Gene's Hawaiian wedding. I'm not going anywhere.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on January 26, 2021, 03:07:33 PM
Who is to say this team isn't in the top half of the BIG 12 next year.

seems unlikely.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 26, 2021, 04:13:00 PM
What if there are grumblings of multiple players transferring out, it will take another 3-4 years for oscar to rebuild AGAIN, which would require a contract extension to even get recruits to listen.

With where oscar is on his contract, you can fire him and hire a decent mid-major guy for less to counter the buyout, and the money would be a wash after a few years.

If that keeps all these guys on campus, I'd take my chances to see what a new dude can do over the next 2-3 years.

(even if there isn't a threat of players leaving, I still go the mid-major route at this point :googlesNDSUcoach:)


Darian DeVries and he brings his son (6'6" 4* HS Senior point forward) with him. 2019 MVC regular season champions and 13-0 to start this year.

https://247sports.com/player/tucker-devries-46086079/

Toledo/Matt Campbell beat Iowa State, so the Cyclones hired him. Drake beat us this year. Do it Gene.

https://youtu.be/UgoLdD4VwFY
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 26, 2021, 04:17:25 PM
Who is to say this team isn't in the top half of the BIG 12 next year.

seems unlikely.

Greg, I love you man, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you with the projection of this program.

sys is right, it's incredibly unlikely that this team is going to go from where they are to .500 in conference next year, that's a massive leap and oscar hasn't done a thing to let anyone know he can get anything out of this group of players. This is a multi-million dollar business, he can't keep this job based on nothing more than blind faith.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on January 26, 2021, 04:48:02 PM
It's good to know KSO isn't the only place oscar discussions devolve to these talking points.

Regardless, if oscar could just manage a roster at all between peak seasons, the roller coaster wouldn't be so darn dramatic. I'm sure plenty of coaches have similar cycles, but the correlation between experience, continuity on the roster, and success is pretty clear. This includes oscar's 08-12 Illinois teams, as far back as kenpom's experience/continuity rankings go.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/396x482q90/r/923/6c3aCc.png)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 26, 2021, 05:17:13 PM
It's good to know KSO isn't the only place oscar discussions devolve to these talking points.

Regardless, if oscar could just manage a roster at all between peak seasons, the roller coaster wouldn't be so darn dramatic. I'm sure plenty of coaches have similar cycles, but the correlation between experience, continuity on the roster, and success is pretty clear. This includes oscar's 08-12 Illinois teams, as far back as kenpom's experience/continuity rankings go.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/396x482q90/r/923/6c3aCc.png)

That 2017 team was very experienced to be so uninspiring.

I'm an idiot and misread the chart.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on January 26, 2021, 05:29:34 PM
170!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 26, 2021, 06:14:42 PM
How many kenpom points would Carti be worth on this roster?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 26, 2021, 07:30:19 PM
How many kenpom points would Carti be worth on this roster?

If oscar continued to insist on playing low possession basketball? Not a whole hell of a lot.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 26, 2021, 10:42:45 PM
What if there are grumblings of multiple players transferring out, it will take another 3-4 years for oscar to rebuild AGAIN, which would require a contract extension to even get recruits to listen.

With where oscar is on his contract, you can fire him and hire a decent mid-major guy for less to counter the buyout, and the money would be a wash after a few years.

If that keeps all these guys on campus, I'd take my chances to see what a new dude can do over the next 2-3 years.

(even if there isn't a threat of players leaving, I still go the mid-major route at this point :googlesNDSUcoach:)


Darian DeVries and he brings his son (6'6" 4* HS Senior point forward) with him. 2019 MVC regular season champions and 13-0 to start this year.

https://247sports.com/player/tucker-devries-46086079/

Toledo/Matt Campbell beat Iowa State, so the Cyclones hired him. Drake beat us this year. Do it Gene.

KT Turner.

Go get him Gene.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 27, 2021, 12:01:55 PM
I don't believe it to be true, but I have heard that someone representing K-State is already contacting agents of potential candidates.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 12:02:39 PM
I don't believe it to be true, but I have heard that someone representing K-State is already contacting agents of potential candidates.

Two sources?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Kid In the Hall on January 27, 2021, 12:16:20 PM
Recalling fond memories of Max Urick repeatedly saying "We" (as in, K-State) aren't conducting a coaching search to replace Tom Asbury in the middle of the 99-00 season. Of course, the search firm that he hired was, in fact, conducting a coaching search to replace Tom Asbury in the middle of the 99-00 season.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 27, 2021, 12:46:14 PM
asbury was a hot prospect of a coach and what looked like a big get for the cats at the time.    he took over for jim harrick at pepperdine and road doug christie's back to a decent win/loss rate there.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 27, 2021, 01:42:53 PM
I don't believe it to be true, but I have heard that someone representing K-State is already contacting agents of potential candidates.

Whether it's true or not, I eat this crap up. Any names mentioned that I can get overly emotional about?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 27, 2021, 01:45:27 PM
We should reach out to Hoiberg.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 27, 2021, 02:01:21 PM
I don't believe it to be true, but I have heard that someone representing K-State is already contacting agents of potential candidates.

Two sources?

One, pretty reliable source, still don't really believe it though.

I don't believe it to be true, but I have heard that someone representing K-State is already contacting agents of potential candidates.

Whether it's true or not, I eat this crap up. Any names mentioned that I can get overly emotional about?

I have a name, it will piss you off, it did me anyway, maybe has something to do with my disbelief...
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 27, 2021, 02:05:55 PM
anyone can represent K-State and reach out to agents of potential candidates

:peek:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 27, 2021, 02:08:45 PM
okay, it's Chris Jans.

































It gets better tho. He supposedly prefers the WSU job, but he would take the K-State job if offered. LOL
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 27, 2021, 02:13:22 PM
We should reach out to Hoiberg.

I agree. I would like to see our search limited to Kelvin, Belein, Thad Matta, high major coaches looking for a job reset, and young NBA assistant coaches. Before anyone mentions wooly, no one in that mode, a younger, at least somewhat well known guy who can be a recruiter, someone like Adrian Griffin.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 27, 2021, 02:28:59 PM
anyone can represent K-State and reach out to agents of potential candidates

:peek:

:lol:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 27, 2021, 02:37:24 PM
anyone can represent K-State and reach out to agents of potential candidates

:peek:

:lol:

I wanted to go back and read this again but the blog is dead, Bryan McGuiness, right?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 27, 2021, 03:21:04 PM
rusty damn near had to countersign Hugg’s contract
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 27, 2021, 03:21:42 PM
jans would be a very kstateo hire
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: WildcatNation on January 27, 2021, 03:23:48 PM
jans would be a very kstateo hire

According to a 5 second google search before I laughed at his record and closed the tab, he also got fired from Bowling Green for drunkenly touching coeds at a bar
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 03:33:35 PM
I think I’d rather have another year of oscar
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 27, 2021, 03:44:42 PM
jans would be a very kstateo hire

According to a 5 second google search before I laughed at his record and closed the tab, he also got fired from Bowling Green for drunkenly touching coeds at a bar

Huh? There are lots of things to laugh at with him, his record is not one of those.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 27, 2021, 03:46:39 PM
I like the Beilein idea.  Would also take Kelvin even with the ensuing investigation/firing.

Jans has a Brucey smile in the first image that popped
(https://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaUFZn29V4VkBrMr2YxWwJD9Kkcf5hMxv725bzFx6OI2nLkyosYWTKgsYA4TAf)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ben ji on January 27, 2021, 03:49:06 PM
I had no idea who Jans was so I googled him....Wins everywhere he goes but then....

http://www.diehardsport.com/college-basketball/bowling-greens-chris-jans-fired-after-inappropriate-video-emerges/

Quote
according to witnesses, Jans sexually harassed several women while drunk in a bar, slapping one on the butt, pushing another’s head toward his crotch, and calling another a “bitch.”

Is he off the sauce now? Has he made amends for his behavior? I honestly have no idea but from a purely basketball W/L standpoint he appears to be a good coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 03:54:54 PM
Jans is not above the burn it down threshold IMO
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 27, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
I probably shouldn't talk potential coaches while I'm in an #anyonebutBruce daze.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 27, 2021, 04:48:33 PM
Jans is not above the burn it down threshold IMO

You can't burn what is already burned.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 05:03:57 PM
Jans is not above the burn it down threshold IMO

You can't burn what is already burned.

There are still operable sinks in the fOOD that remain unbroken
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 27, 2021, 05:21:10 PM
I think firing oscar for Jans qualifies as tazing your own balls.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 27, 2021, 06:20:54 PM
I think firing oscar for Jans qualifies as tazing your own balls.

Nice, would be fun to actually have balls to taze again. At this point, we have none.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2021, 06:27:15 PM
I'd take Jans over oscar, but it's silly to try and name someone that I wouldn't take over oscar.  It seems like we should have higher standards, but I don't think we deserve to have higher standards.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: mocat on January 27, 2021, 06:47:47 PM
Jans is not above the burn it down threshold IMO

You can't burn what is already burned.
What is dead may never die
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 27, 2021, 07:15:08 PM
I'd take Jans over oscar, but it's silly to try and name someone that I wouldn't take over oscar.  It seems like we should have higher standards, but I don't think we deserve to have higher standards.

we deserve oscar.  he's the hell that pushing frank out sentenced us to.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 27, 2021, 09:07:03 PM
I'd take Jans over oscar, but it's silly to try and name someone that I wouldn't take over oscar.  It seems like we should have higher standards, but I don't think we deserve to have higher standards.

Two hours ago hiring I would have lost my mind by hiring Jans, now I don't care, I just want this to stop.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 27, 2021, 10:22:23 PM
Is there anything objective/quantifiable in Weber’s contract that could be grounds for him to be fired for cause and we wouldn’t have to pay the buyout?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 27, 2021, 10:22:49 PM
I have a new mission and I need all of you to help me. If you see anyone on this board or on Twitter try to tell you we can't afford the buyout for oscar, which is dirt cheap, almost certainly the cheapest in the Big 12, please tell them they are wrong. It's actually the opposite, we can't afford not to buy him out.

I don't know if people think the athletic department works like a bodega, but every large school athletic department budget has room for buyouts. Last fiscal year we nearly had a $90 million dollar budget as an athletic department. If we don't get a penny from a donor for the buyout, they simply make room in other places in the budget. We don't need to take out a payday loan because we only have $230 in the cash register.

Now what being strapped with the budget can hurt is how much we pay the next guy. Although I don't think we're hurting as badly as some think.

We'll see what happens with Gene's list, but the next guy will be the gauge of how cash strapped we are, not the buyout.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 27, 2021, 10:24:53 PM
Is there anything objective/quantifiable in Weber’s contract that could be grounds for him to be fired for cause and we wouldn’t have to pay the buyout?

No and it would be stupid to try. Just like KU football, we'd pay more in billable hours than we would by just paying the buyout and moving on. Then we'd end up settling anyway,.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 28, 2021, 07:41:02 AM
We gain $1M+ in headroom after this year. We'll be done paying Coach Snyder.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 28, 2021, 07:58:51 AM
I'd take Jans over oscar, but it's silly to try and name someone that I wouldn't take over oscar.  It seems like we should have higher standards, but I don't think we deserve to have higher standards.

we deserve oscar.  he's the hell that pushing frank out sentenced us to.
We dodged a goddamn bullet thanks to oscar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Martin_(basketball)
Title: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cire on January 28, 2021, 08:02:34 AM
Let’s focus on those fire lavenders and also fire oscar


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Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 28, 2021, 08:24:23 AM
I'd take Jans over oscar, but it's silly to try and name someone that I wouldn't take over oscar.  It seems like we should have higher standards, but I don't think we deserve to have higher standards.

we deserve oscar.  he's the hell that pushing frank out sentenced us to.
We dodged a goddamn bullet thanks to oscar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Martin_(basketball)

oscar had nothing to do with Frank getting fired.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 28, 2021, 09:01:07 AM
Alright guys. Im done. No feelings for oscar, who we hiring?


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Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 28, 2021, 09:05:58 AM
?s=21


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Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 28, 2021, 09:07:58 AM
We fire oscar and let shane become hc for time being. its only right.


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Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 28, 2021, 09:09:06 AM
?s=21

Does this count toward FOOTWATCH?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 28, 2021, 09:23:01 AM
Clearly there was some adversity that was out of our control.  Once the unfair adversity is accounted for, we lost to Baylor by 12 in a gritty effort by the kittens
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 28, 2021, 09:33:51 AM
?s=21


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Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 28, 2021, 09:44:52 AM
I'd take Jans over oscar, but it's silly to try and name someone that I wouldn't take over oscar.  It seems like we should have higher standards, but I don't think we deserve to have higher standards.

we deserve oscar.  he's the hell that pushing frank out sentenced us to.
We dodged a goddamn bullet thanks to oscar (Being hired)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Martin_(basketball)

oscar had nothing to do with Frank getting fired.
No crap. We dodged the bullet of Frank. I fixed it for you.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 28, 2021, 09:46:21 AM
?s=21


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Meh. A million people passed on recruiting Pullen, but he's still salty with oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 28, 2021, 09:47:50 AM
The answer is both
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 28, 2021, 10:43:28 AM
The answer is both

Yes, it's not just one or the other that ends in the biggest margin of defeat in K-State history. It was one very bad team, and one very good team.

God, give me #anyonebutBruce right now and i'll sunshine pump the absolute crap out the hire.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cartierfor3 on January 28, 2021, 11:12:41 AM
I am really confused on WackyCat's position. WC, could you clarify what your opinion of the situation is?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2021, 11:16:33 AM
Oscar saved us from frank getting doubled up by Baylor. Pretty straight forward really.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 28, 2021, 11:18:54 AM
I am really confused on WackyCat's position. WC, could you clarify what your opinion of the situation is?
People who still bring up Frank are huge idiots, because he sucks and go ahead and fire oscar as well, but thanks for the success, oscar.  :dunno:

Can't be that hard to see. oscar saved us from many years of no ncaa years appearances, zero conference titles, guys in the league, etc.  :dunno:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cartierfor3 on January 28, 2021, 11:23:27 AM
ok
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 28, 2021, 11:38:28 AM
i think wacky's equation is:  ignore all of oscar's bads, and all of frank's goods
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 28, 2021, 11:49:00 AM
i think wacky's equation is:  ignore all of oscar's bads, and all of frank's goods
Yes. The opposite of what everyone else does. “Frank is amazing! (Don’t look here—> South Carolina (1 for 9 in tourney appearances))”. “oscar sucks ass!—> (Here’s how he lucked into 2 big 12 Championships, ending the streak, an elite 8, etc.” It’s pathetic!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 28, 2021, 11:50:11 AM
They both have weaknesses and strengths.

Time for oscar to leave

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Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on January 28, 2021, 01:29:12 PM
Frank is irrelevant to this discussion
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: TaqMan on January 28, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
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Just heard the audio of oscar talking about the bus not starting and having to walk to the game. This feels a lot like Wooldridge's neck brace days before he was fired, guys. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 28, 2021, 04:34:33 PM
I have a new mission and I need all of you to help me. If you see anyone on this board or on Twitter try to tell you we can't afford the buyout for oscar, which is dirt cheap, almost certainly the cheapest in the Big 12, please tell them they are wrong. It's actually the opposite, we can't afford not to buy him out.

I don't know if people think the athletic department works like a bodega, but every large school athletic department budget has room for buyouts. Last fiscal year we nearly had a $90 million dollar budget as an athletic department. If we don't get a penny from a donor for the buyout, they simply make room in other places in the budget. We don't need to take out a payday loan because we only have $230 in the cash register.

Now what being strapped with the budget can hurt is how much we pay the next guy. Although I don't think we're hurting as badly as some think.

We'll see what happens with Gene's list, but the next guy will be the gauge of how cash strapped we are, not the buyout.

This afternoon I started thinking, and thought Gene had paid all the money to get rid of Bill and his staff (roughly $4 mill?) but to somewhat counter he brought Klieman in for cheap, move some things around and we're good..... then I realized he paid Klieman almost half a mill more than Bill in base salary. LOL.

I do not trust Gene to be able to take care of this... like, at all
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 28, 2021, 04:54:57 PM
I have a new mission and I need all of you to help me. If you see anyone on this board or on Twitter try to tell you we can't afford the buyout for oscar, which is dirt cheap, almost certainly the cheapest in the Big 12, please tell them they are wrong. It's actually the opposite, we can't afford not to buy him out.

I don't know if people think the athletic department works like a bodega, but every large school athletic department budget has room for buyouts. Last fiscal year we nearly had a $90 million dollar budget as an athletic department. If we don't get a penny from a donor for the buyout, they simply make room in other places in the budget. We don't need to take out a payday loan because we only have $230 in the cash register.

Now what being strapped with the budget can hurt is how much we pay the next guy. Although I don't think we're hurting as badly as some think.

We'll see what happens with Gene's list, but the next guy will be the gauge of how cash strapped we are, not the buyout.

This afternoon I started thinking, and thought Gene had paid all the money to get rid of Bill and his staff (roughly $4 mill?) but to somewhat counter he brought Klieman in for cheap, move some things around and we're good..... then I realized he paid Klieman almost half a mill more than Bill in base salary. LOL.

I do not trust Gene to be able to take care of this... like, at all

So MIR your premise is Gene has the money and is just still on the fence about firing oscar?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 28, 2021, 10:31:25 PM
I have a new mission and I need all of you to help me. If you see anyone on this board or on Twitter try to tell you we can't afford the buyout for oscar, which is dirt cheap, almost certainly the cheapest in the Big 12, please tell them they are wrong. It's actually the opposite, we can't afford not to buy him out.

I don't know if people think the athletic department works like a bodega, but every large school athletic department budget has room for buyouts. Last fiscal year we nearly had a $90 million dollar budget as an athletic department. If we don't get a penny from a donor for the buyout, they simply make room in other places in the budget. We don't need to take out a payday loan because we only have $230 in the cash register.

Now what being strapped with the budget can hurt is how much we pay the next guy. Although I don't think we're hurting as badly as some think.

We'll see what happens with Gene's list, but the next guy will be the gauge of how cash strapped we are, not the buyout.

This afternoon I started thinking, and thought Gene had paid all the money to get rid of Bill and his staff (roughly $4 mill?) but to somewhat counter he brought Klieman in for cheap, move some things around and we're good..... then I realized he paid Klieman almost half a mill more than Bill in base salary. LOL.

I do not trust Gene to be able to take care of this... like, at all

So MIR your premise is Gene has the money and is just still on the fence about firing oscar?

I didn't say anything like that. I don't know what Gene's motivations are, I'm just saying that we have the money to afford a damn $2 million buyout. Luckily I think only wacky is pushing that narrative at this point and he seemingly just exists to troll.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 28, 2021, 10:36:23 PM
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Meh. A million people passed on recruiting Pullen, but he's still salty with oscar.

He's fine with oscar you clown and has been for a while. If that tweet, after a 50 point loss, offended your delicate sensibilities it might be time for your to reevaluate everything.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 29, 2021, 08:02:33 AM
?s=21


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Meh. A million people passed on recruiting Pullen, but he's still salty with oscar.

He's fine with oscar you clown and has been for a while. If that tweet, after a 50 point loss, offended your delicate sensibilities it might be time for your to reevaluate everything.
:confused:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 29, 2021, 08:21:50 AM
I have a new mission and I need all of you to help me. If you see anyone on this board or on Twitter try to tell you we can't afford the buyout for oscar, which is dirt cheap, almost certainly the cheapest in the Big 12, please tell them they are wrong. It's actually the opposite, we can't afford not to buy him out.

I don't know if people think the athletic department works like a bodega, but every large school athletic department budget has room for buyouts. Last fiscal year we nearly had a $90 million dollar budget as an athletic department. If we don't get a penny from a donor for the buyout, they simply make room in other places in the budget. We don't need to take out a payday loan because we only have $230 in the cash register.

Now what being strapped with the budget can hurt is how much we pay the next guy. Although I don't think we're hurting as badly as some think.

We'll see what happens with Gene's list, but the next guy will be the gauge of how cash strapped we are, not the buyout.

This afternoon I started thinking, and thought Gene had paid all the money to get rid of Bill and his staff (roughly $4 mill?) but to somewhat counter he brought Klieman in for cheap, move some things around and we're good..... then I realized he paid Klieman almost half a mill more than Bill in base salary. LOL.

I do not trust Gene to be able to take care of this... like, at all

So MIR your premise is Gene has the money and is just still on the fence about firing oscar?

I didn't say anything like that. I don't know what Gene's motivations are, I'm just saying that we have the money to afford a damn $2 million buyout. Luckily I think only wacky is pushing that narrative at this point and he seemingly just exists to troll.

His buyout pre 4/30 is 2.8 MM plus whatever coach we want to hires buyout (maybe another 1MM?).  The AD just sold an 8th home game (not popular move with the fan base) to the Dallas Cowboys I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think we aren’t exactly flush with cash.  I think Gene will easily get the money from wealthy donors so it’s probably a moot point.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 29, 2021, 08:35:49 AM
Probably a cheesedick idea, and I have no idea if oscar wants to coach until he's 75... but his buyout is $2 million after April 30th, I'd offer oscar a buyout somewhere between 2 mill and 2.8 to retire right now (quarterly payments of $100,000-$120,000 for 5 years) and give him a K-State ambassador position for some additional amount.

Anything to get him to step down... but that could maybe keep guys on campus, help us move on, while not being a huge financial burden.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 29, 2021, 08:51:53 AM
Good idea. 

Offer a guaranteed financial package over 5 years.   Keep the Colbert Hills access, keep the club seats at football games, keep the incidentals expense account over that 5 years, 2 new courtesy cars a year for oscar and the Mrs over 5 years.   Hell, then have it revert to some ceremonial position after that, $150K a year and a few perks.  Whatever it takes to end this.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: LickNeckey on January 29, 2021, 09:17:46 AM
i would rather hid dork ass face never be seen again

pay him 3 million with the understanding that he can never return
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 29, 2021, 10:29:05 AM
I have a new mission and I need all of you to help me. If you see anyone on this board or on Twitter try to tell you we can't afford the buyout for oscar, which is dirt cheap, almost certainly the cheapest in the Big 12, please tell them they are wrong. It's actually the opposite, we can't afford not to buy him out.

I don't know if people think the athletic department works like a bodega, but every large school athletic department budget has room for buyouts. Last fiscal year we nearly had a $90 million dollar budget as an athletic department. If we don't get a penny from a donor for the buyout, they simply make room in other places in the budget. We don't need to take out a payday loan because we only have $230 in the cash register.

Now what being strapped with the budget can hurt is how much we pay the next guy. Although I don't think we're hurting as badly as some think.

We'll see what happens with Gene's list, but the next guy will be the gauge of how cash strapped we are, not the buyout.

This afternoon I started thinking, and thought Gene had paid all the money to get rid of Bill and his staff (roughly $4 mill?) but to somewhat counter he brought Klieman in for cheap, move some things around and we're good..... then I realized he paid Klieman almost half a mill more than Bill in base salary. LOL.

I do not trust Gene to be able to take care of this... like, at all

So MIR your premise is Gene has the money and is just still on the fence about firing oscar?

I didn't say anything like that. I don't know what Gene's motivations are, I'm just saying that we have the money to afford a damn $2 million buyout. Luckily I think only wacky is pushing that narrative at this point and he seemingly just exists to troll.

His buyout pre 4/30 is 2.8 MM plus whatever coach we want to hires buyout (maybe another 1MM?).  The AD just sold an 8th home game (not popular move with the fan base) to the Dallas Cowboys I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think we aren’t exactly flush with cash.  I think Gene will easily get the money from wealthy donors so it’s probably a moot point.

I feel like I'm repeating myself but the things you're taking about are reasons why we won't give Kelvin Samson or John Belein $4 million and why we're going to hire a low major coach or an assistant who isn't sought after by another high major program. Those aren't reasons why oscar will keep his job. Never ever in the modern history of power 5 has a coach kept his job simply because the AD couldn't afford to fire him. Did you not see how many football coaches were fired in the pandemic? I assure you that high major, mid major, and high major coaches will get fired this spring.

Two other things. Gene selling that game had nothing to do with the pandemic, the negotiations for that started in the fall of 2019. Also the thought of a booster scratching a check for a buyout is grossly overstated, it really doesn't work like that in nearly every case. If that didn't happen for Snyder it certainly won't happen for oscar. Buyouts are often reflective of what a school can afford and they are almost always done in installments.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 29, 2021, 01:15:57 PM
Buyouts are often reflective of what a school can afford and they are almost always done in installments.

Before Gene up'd Bill's buyout a year before buying him out. Bill's was 28 quarterly payments of $72k and I found that hilarious.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 29, 2021, 02:05:49 PM
if brents or yeast find anything out about this, do they re-enter the portal?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 29, 2021, 02:08:22 PM
If those dudes are smart, they already have one foot out the portal.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 29, 2021, 02:10:20 PM
i’m pretty sure that they have both feet in the portal and outside of the portal as we speak but i’ll talk to some people about it who would know and report back
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 29, 2021, 02:35:35 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 29, 2021, 02:39:49 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 29, 2021, 10:13:21 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 29, 2021, 10:41:50 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.

Correct. This year there are no transfer penalties. As for beyond this year, there is legislation in the works at the NCAA to permanently get rid of the transfer penalty. There are only like 4 or 5 sports that have the penalty anyway. Also very few schools contest the waivers anymore, anyway.

Losing any of those freshmen would be devastating.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 30, 2021, 01:14:11 AM
Ned has weighed in.

https://themercury.com/k_state_sports/seaton-oscar-weber-the-luckiest-and-unluckiest-coach-in-college-basketball/article_ac6662a6-c868-5cfe-a067-29f59309316b.html
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 30, 2021, 05:10:36 AM
Ya. We're stuck.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 30, 2021, 11:17:48 AM
I thought the transfer rule was just for fall sports so far.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: bucket on January 30, 2021, 12:50:25 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.

Correct. This year there are no transfer penalties. As for beyond this year, there is legislation in the works at the NCAA to permanently get rid of the transfer penalty. There are only like 4 or 5 sports that have the penalty anyway. Also very few schools contest the waivers anymore, anyway.

Losing any of those freshmen would be devastating.

Players still have to sit out a year. Grad transfers and those with extenuating circumstances being the exception.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 30, 2021, 01:13:59 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.

Correct. This year there are no transfer penalties. As for beyond this year, there is legislation in the works at the NCAA to permanently get rid of the transfer penalty. There are only like 4 or 5 sports that have the penalty anyway. Also very few schools contest the waivers anymore, anyway.

Losing any of those freshmen would be devastating.

Players still have to sit out a year. Grad transfers and those with extenuating circumstances being the exception.

How did Caleb Grill go from Iowa State to UNLV and not sit out a year?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 30, 2021, 01:50:07 PM
The same way Yor Anei is now playing for SMU after leaving OKST last spring. The NCAA isn't going to play slave master to young adults anymore.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cardiac Cats on January 30, 2021, 02:22:33 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.

Correct. This year there are no transfer penalties. As for beyond this year, there is legislation in the works at the NCAA to permanently get rid of the transfer penalty. There are only like 4 or 5 sports that have the penalty anyway. Also very few schools contest the waivers anymore, anyway.

Losing any of those freshmen would be devastating.

Players still have to sit out a year. Grad transfers and those with extenuating circumstances being the exception.

How did Caleb Grill go from Iowa State to UNLV and not sit out a year?

Pretty sure that was a one time deal. Allowing players currently sitting out to play immediately, primarily impacting hoops.

"In order to qualify, players will have needed to be enrolled in their new school by the fall semester and this has to be their first time transferring to a four-year institution."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2922781-ncaa-grants-waiver-to-provide-transfers-with-immediate-eligibility-amid-covid-19

To MIRs point, the NCAA met this month but ultimately punted the decision on both player compensation and 1 time transfer. Both are probably inevitable though.

"They also delayed a vote that would loosen restrictions on transfer rules for athletes in some of the association's most popular sports -- including football and basketball."

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/30694073/sources-ncaa-delays-vote-change-college-athlete-compensation-rules
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: bucket on January 30, 2021, 02:33:53 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.

Correct. This year there are no transfer penalties. As for beyond this year, there is legislation in the works at the NCAA to permanently get rid of the transfer penalty. There are only like 4 or 5 sports that have the penalty anyway. Also very few schools contest the waivers anymore, anyway.

Losing any of those freshmen would be devastating.

Players still have to sit out a year. Grad transfers and those with extenuating circumstances being the exception.

How did Caleb Grill go from Iowa State to UNLV and not sit out a year?

He received a waiver from the NCAA.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 30, 2021, 03:59:22 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.

Correct. This year there are no transfer penalties. As for beyond this year, there is legislation in the works at the NCAA to permanently get rid of the transfer penalty. There are only like 4 or 5 sports that have the penalty anyway. Also very few schools contest the waivers anymore, anyway.

Losing any of those freshmen would be devastating.

Players still have to sit out a year. Grad transfers and those with extenuating circumstances being the exception.

How did Caleb Grill go from Iowa State to UNLV and not sit out a year?

He received a waiver from the NCAA.

Which everyone gets. Long story short is that none of these freshmen will have to sit out if they transfer.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 30, 2021, 04:14:09 PM
That game was discouraging. Nijel was a stud, and I'm happy to see that I might have been wrong about Antonio, he's been really good. That Texas A&M team was hot garbage, total trash. Mike continues to be terrible and there are a lot of things you can point to that shows coaching is holding this team back. One possession game, less than a minute left, K-State breaks aggy's token pressure, Selton gets the ball at the top of the key on a 3-on-2 situation and he doesn't even look to drive to get a score, he pulls it out, allows the defense to recover and we miss a shot. Game Over.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 30, 2021, 04:15:40 PM
Is oscar fired yet?

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Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 30, 2021, 04:23:50 PM
Is oscar fired yet?

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Yes but it won’t be announced until end of season
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: bucket on January 30, 2021, 04:27:46 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.

Correct. This year there are no transfer penalties. As for beyond this year, there is legislation in the works at the NCAA to permanently get rid of the transfer penalty. There are only like 4 or 5 sports that have the penalty anyway. Also very few schools contest the waivers anymore, anyway.

Losing any of those freshmen would be devastating.

Players still have to sit out a year. Grad transfers and those with extenuating circumstances being the exception.

How did Caleb Grill go from Iowa State to UNLV and not sit out a year?

He received a waiver from the NCAA.

Which everyone gets. Long story short is that none of these freshmen will have to sit out if they transfer.

Based on what I've read about football transfers, that shouldn't be assumed.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 30, 2021, 05:45:51 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.

Correct. This year there are no transfer penalties. As for beyond this year, there is legislation in the works at the NCAA to permanently get rid of the transfer penalty. There are only like 4 or 5 sports that have the penalty anyway. Also very few schools contest the waivers anymore, anyway.

Losing any of those freshmen would be devastating.

Players still have to sit out a year. Grad transfers and those with extenuating circumstances being the exception.

How did Caleb Grill go from Iowa State to UNLV and not sit out a year?

He received a waiver from the NCAA.

Which everyone gets. Long story short is that none of these freshmen will have to sit out if they transfer.

Based on what I've read about football transfers, that shouldn't be assumed.

I don't know who said it didn't but the one time waiver rule definitely passed.

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/di-council-grants-waiver-allow-transfer-student-athletes-compete-immediately
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 30, 2021, 05:47:49 PM
Is oscar fired yet?

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Yes but it won’t be announced until end of season

I think waiting to let him go is a mistake. They need to find a coach asap so the new coach can get to work recruiting the freshmen to stay.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 30, 2021, 05:48:36 PM
The same way Yor Anei is now playing for SMU after leaving OKST last spring. The NCAA isn't going to play slave master to young adults anymore.
It has to be ok’d by the previous team. It has nothing to do with the NCAA. It’s still a year to sit out as of right now.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 30, 2021, 05:57:24 PM
Is oscar fired yet?

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Yes but it won’t be announced until end of season

I think waiting to let him go is a mistake. They need to find a coach asap so the new coach can get to work recruiting the freshmen to stay.

I hope that is happening behind the scenes in conjunction with the forced retirement negotiations
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Cardiac Cats on January 30, 2021, 10:02:40 PM
It had occurred to me the cockroach Oscar was stinking it up so bad this year with the goal of lowering expectations next year, but this disaster of a season seems to have moved the ball into new territory. I can't imagine anyone supporting keeping the cockroach around if either Pack or Bradford transfers. Bradford transferring to Missouri or Illinois makes so much sense I can't imagine him not taking advantage of one of the opportunities.
Yeah, Bradford has potential for a professional career at the next level. I'm sure he'd all be for sitting out a year during that process. Makes sense.

No one is sitting out anymore. Something, something, something, Covid, you're eligible.

Correct. This year there are no transfer penalties. As for beyond this year, there is legislation in the works at the NCAA to permanently get rid of the transfer penalty. There are only like 4 or 5 sports that have the penalty anyway. Also very few schools contest the waivers anymore, anyway.

Losing any of those freshmen would be devastating.

Players still have to sit out a year. Grad transfers and those with extenuating circumstances being the exception.

How did Caleb Grill go from Iowa State to UNLV and not sit out a year?

He received a waiver from the NCAA.

Which everyone gets. Long story short is that none of these freshmen will have to sit out if they transfer.

Based on what I've read about football transfers, that shouldn't be assumed.

I don't know who said it didn't but the one time waiver rule definitely passed.

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/di-council-grants-waiver-allow-transfer-student-athletes-compete-immediately

You’re mixing up two different things. There was a blanketed one time waiver that passed for anyone who was enrolled before the fall semester, like Trey Wertz at Notre  Dame and the OConnell kid at Creighton.

The NCAA was supposed to discuss and vote on making it a permanent rule in their January meeting three weeks ago. I linked it earlier, but they didn’t vote/approve it, just delayed it again.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2021/01/11/ncaa-voted-delayed-transfer-rules-name-image-and-likeness/6629391002/
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 31, 2021, 12:55:41 PM
:(

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 31, 2021, 01:03:38 PM
not surprised
the only thing more inept at k-state than oscar is the administration who supports him
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 31, 2021, 01:21:38 PM
firegenetaylornow.com
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 31, 2021, 01:27:50 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 31, 2021, 02:29:27 PM
The article was worse than the tweet. I'm not going to freak out about this yet, I'm going to wait until May 2 before I truly lose my crap. What I am pissed about is he using COVID as an excuse for oscar and himself from not doing his job. I will once again reiterate that he has the money to let oscar go, he has enough rubes to buy that excuse to buy him time.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: memphis on January 31, 2021, 02:41:54 PM
HODL
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 31, 2021, 02:56:50 PM
He's got two basketball coaches he should be replacing.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2021, 03:53:42 PM
The article was worse than the tweet. I'm not going to freak out about this yet, I'm going to wait until May 2 before I truly lose my crap. What I am pissed about is he using COVID as an excuse for oscar and himself from not doing his job. I will once again reiterate that he has the money to let oscar go, he has enough rubes to buy that excuse to buy him time.

Gene is going to retire oscar like he did Snyder.  No way he is back next year.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 31, 2021, 04:01:01 PM
he’s coming back and he’s bringing hell with him
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 31, 2021, 04:19:37 PM
Hopes lift

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 31, 2021, 04:30:06 PM
Why is gene talking?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 31, 2021, 04:46:12 PM
Hopes lift



Backlash?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on January 31, 2021, 05:32:10 PM
Nice. The “show of confidence” is almost always the kiss of death.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2021, 06:07:03 PM
The article was worse than the tweet. I'm not going to freak out about this yet, I'm going to wait until May 2 before I truly lose my crap. What I am pissed about is he using COVID as an excuse for oscar and himself from not doing his job. I will once again reiterate that he has the money to let oscar go, he has enough rubes to buy that excuse to buy him time.

Gene is going to retire oscar like he did Snyder.  No way he is back next year.


It blows my mind that people think Gene is afraid to can oscar after the way he took care of Bill
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 08:03:33 PM
People lose all rationale when it comes to oscar. 90% of the fan base never wanted him and never accepted him from day 1. History shows he’s the 3rd winningest coach in program history, so since they never wanted him, they just brake down his faults. I’m actually happy we have an administration that tries to think through things and not obey to social media dorks who can barely run their own daily head quarters.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Spracne on January 31, 2021, 08:07:01 PM
Makes cents.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2021, 08:17:45 PM
I’m trying to will KT Turner into existence as the next coach of the KSU cats bball Squad
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on January 31, 2021, 08:18:22 PM
People lose all rationale when it comes to oscar. 90% of the fan base never wanted him and never accepted him from day 1. History shows he’s the 3rd winningest coach in program history, so since they never wanted him, they just brake down his faults. I’m actually happy we have an administration that tries to think through things and not obey to social media dorks who can barely run their own daily head quarters.
could have said it better myself
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 08:22:32 PM
I’m trying to will KT Turner into existence as the next coach of the KSU cats bball Squad
A lot of the ppl who ran the Seth Litrell for K-State train are running the same campaign to do better than oscar. Can’t wait!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 08:26:45 PM
Same peeps who wanted Doug Gottlieb too btw.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 31, 2021, 08:48:03 PM
Same peeps who wanted Doug Gottlieb too btw.
That would have been terrible. We could be nine years in with a coach running a rudderless program, mired at the bottom of the league, getting crap-stomped in every conference game with no discernable offense, lousy defense and a team playing with no effort or pride. i shudder to think.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 31, 2021, 08:51:02 PM
People lose all rationale when it comes to oscar. 90% of the fan base never wanted him and never accepted him from day 1. History shows he’s the 3rd winningest coach in program history, so since they never wanted him, they just brake down his faults. I’m actually happy we have an administration that tries to think through things and not obey to social media dorks who can barely run their own daily head quarters.

Now say this using your real squeaky voice.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 08:52:07 PM
Same peeps who wanted Doug Gottlieb too btw.
That would have been terrible. We could be nine years in with a coach running a rudderless program, mired at the bottom of the league, getting crap-stomped in every conference game with no discernable offense, lousy defense and a team playing with no effort or pride. i shudder to think.
minus a conference championship for the first time since ‘77, another one on top of that, an elite 8 performance to match your god Frank and actual players in the league!!!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 31, 2021, 08:58:13 PM
Conjecture. What is fact is a losing conference record after nine years and a loss to Fort rough ridin' State.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 09:02:32 PM
Conjecture. What is fact is a losing conference record after nine years and a loss to Fort rough ridin' State.
Who’s the next hire, rock star?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 31, 2021, 09:11:18 PM
I keep seeing this and it is my favorite out of all the contrived things to care about.

a losing conference record after nine years
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 31, 2021, 09:12:26 PM
Conjecture. What is fact is a losing conference record after nine years and a loss to Fort rough ridin' State.
Who’s the next hire, rock star?

JFC, after nine years the team is in shambles and the dufus at the helm has no idea how to build and sustain a 50-50 program much less a winning one, and you're fearful we will do worse?

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 31, 2021, 09:18:55 PM
I keep seeing this and it is my favorite out of all the contrived things to care about.

a losing conference record after nine years

Contrived. BS word by an apologist for failure.
It's a legitimate benchmark, considering the pillow-soft non-conference schedules Oscar regularly treats us to.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 09:20:18 PM
So you have no idea. Go it. Also, holy crap, your anger is scary AF!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2021, 09:24:18 PM
Wacks you want oscar to coach the cats next year?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 09:25:56 PM
I’d bet oscar’s 2 big 12 conference championships and his elite 8 run that emawzifried has murdered someone in daylight.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 09:27:31 PM
Wacks you want oscar to coach the cats next year?
I don’t care. Chiefs are about to win another super bowl. I’m just enjoying hypocrites right now.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on January 31, 2021, 09:33:12 PM
I’d bet oszcar’s 2 big 12 conference championships and his elite 8 run that emawzifried has murdered someone in daylight.

I would try to change the subject, too, if I sucked as badly as you do at presently what is admittedly a worse argument.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 31, 2021, 09:34:38 PM
I keep seeing this and it is my favorite out of all the contrived things to care about.

a losing conference record after nine years

Contrived. BS word by an apologist for failure.
It's a legitimate benchmark, considering the pillow-soft non-conference schedules Oscar regularly treats us to.

How many losing conference records did Snyder have once he'd been here for nine years? How many times did you think he should be fired for it?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: IPA4Me on January 31, 2021, 09:35:44 PM
Good old KState it's okay to suck attitude. We're just KState. We should expect back to back dumpster fire seasons. That's just who we are.

Apathy runs deep in our heritage.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 09:37:25 PM
I’d bet oszcar’s 2 big 12 conference championships and his elite 8 run that emawzifried has murdered someone in daylight.

I would try to change the subject, too, if I sucked as badly as you do at presently what is admittedly a worse argument.
:ROFL: Just admit you were losing your goddamn mind during those years. You don’t give a damn about K-State hoops.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 09:38:08 PM
Good old KState it's okay to suck attitude. We're just KState. We should expect back to back dumpster fire seasons. That's just who we are.

Apathy runs deep in our heritage.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
This isn’t happening here.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 31, 2021, 09:54:26 PM
I keep seeing this and it is my favorite out of all the contrived things to care about.

a losing conference record after nine years

Contrived. BS word by an apologist for failure.
It's a legitimate benchmark, considering the pillow-soft non-conference schedules Oscar regularly treats us to.

How many losing conference records did Snyder have once he'd been here for nine years? How many times did you think he should be fired for it?

3. And hot take here but the ‘88 football program Snyder took over was in much worse shape than the ‘11 basketball program oscar took over. Also after 9 years his teams were consistently improving. Chum I assume you’re being facetious and I’m just not picking up on it bc this is otherwise a monumentally stupid comparison
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 10:05:09 PM
I keep seeing this and it is my favorite out of all the contrived things to care about.

a losing conference record after nine years

Contrived. BS word by an apologist for failure.
It's a legitimate benchmark, considering the pillow-soft non-conference schedules Oscar regularly treats us to.

How many losing conference records did Snyder have once he'd been here for nine years? How many times did you think he should be fired for it?

3. And hot take here but the ‘88 football program Snyder took over was in much worse shape than the ‘11 basketball program oscar took over. Also after 9 years his teams were consistently improving. Chum I assume you’re being facetious and I’m just not picking up on it bc this is otherwise a monumentally stupid comparison
lol
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 31, 2021, 10:05:33 PM
Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 31, 2021, 10:07:04 PM
The article was worse than the tweet. I'm not going to freak out about this yet, I'm going to wait until May 2 before I truly lose my crap. What I am pissed about is he using COVID as an excuse for oscar and himself from not doing his job. I will once again reiterate that he has the money to let oscar go, he has enough rubes to buy that excuse to buy him time.

Gene is going to retire oscar like he did Snyder.  No way he is back next year.


It blows my mind that people think Gene is afraid to can oscar after the way he took care of Bill

I think for the most part it's a defense mechanism to protect from another "KITN" as some of these people are fond of saying.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on January 31, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
I keep seeing this and it is my favorite out of all the contrived things to care about.

a losing conference record after nine years

Contrived. BS word by an apologist for failure.
It's a legitimate benchmark, considering the pillow-soft non-conference schedules Oscar regularly treats us to.

How many losing conference records did Snyder have once he'd been here for nine years? How many times did you think he should be fired for it?

3. And hot take here but the ‘88 football program Snyder took over was in much worse shape than the ‘11 basketball program oscar took over. Also after 9 years his teams were consistently improving. Chum I assume you’re being facetious and I’m just not picking up on it bc this is otherwise a monumentally stupid comparison

No, the idea that a coach shouldn't have a bad season after they've been around long enough to have things figured out is rough ridin' stupid.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 31, 2021, 10:12:00 PM
People lose all rationale when it comes to oscar. 90% of the fan base never wanted him and never accepted him from day 1. History shows he’s the 3rd winningest coach in program history, so since they never wanted him, they just brake down his faults. I’m actually happy we have an administration that tries to think through things and not obey to social media dorks who can barely run their own daily head quarters.

That simply isn't true, not even a little bit. I will grant you that some people are irrational about oscar and the root of it is the overwhelming want to be right, even though that ship has sailed. However, your propensity to dismiss any oscar criticism at all is just as extreme. 99% of K-State basketball fans fall somewhere between the continuum of you and trim, but you treat everyone like they're a shitty fan for not wanting to deal with this catastrophe anymore.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 31, 2021, 10:14:59 PM
Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.

I can't think of any good that could've come from him even being in a position to be asked things this weekend.  And nobody was even clamoring to hear from him anyway.  It's not like people are going to not buy tickets to the fOOD the rest of the season if they don't hear things they want to hear from him.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 31, 2021, 10:16:46 PM
Wacks you want oscar to coach the cats next year?
I don’t care. Chiefs are about to win another super bowl. I’m just enjoying hypocrites right now.

No one, and I literally mean no one, other than that Illinois fan I cursed out, is being hypocritical about any of this, like nothing that can even be misinterpreted as hypocrisy..

This is the Alanis Morisette Ironic of all message board posts.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 10:22:44 PM
Wacks you want oscar to coach the cats next year?
I don’t care. Chiefs are about to win another super bowl. I’m just enjoying hypocrites right now.

No one, and I literally mean no one, other than that Illinois fan I cursed out, is being hypocritical about any of this, like nothing that can even be misinterpreted as hypocrisy..

This is the Alanis Morisette Ironic of all message board posts.
People lose all rationale when it comes to oscar. 90% of the fan base never wanted him and never accepted him from day 1. History shows he’s the 3rd winningest coach in program history, so since they never wanted him, they just brake down his faults. I’m actually happy we have an administration that tries to think through things and not obey to social media dorks who can barely run their own daily head quarters.

That simply isn't true, not even a little bit. I will grant you that some people are irrational about oscar and the root of it is the overwhelming want to be right, even though that ship has sailed. However, your propensity to dismiss any oscar criticism at all is just as extreme. 99% of K-State basketball fans fall somewhere between the continuum of you and trim, but you treat everyone like they're a shitty fan for not wanting to deal with this catastrophe anymore.
lol. Jesus Christ. That’s for proving my point. 😂
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 31, 2021, 10:23:30 PM
Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.

I can't think of any good that could've come from him even being in a position to be asked things this weekend.  And nobody was even clamoring to hear from him anyway.  It's not like people are going to not buy tickets to the fOOD the rest of the season if they don't hear things they want to hear from him.

I was stunned that he gave one on the record interviews, but two! Holy crap! He'll probably be on with John Kurtz tomorrow as well, so it will likely be 3 interviews in just over 24 hours.

There are only two reasons I can think of and they're both really bad reasons to go out stammering without solid talking points.

1. His boss asked him to try to lower the temperature. Of course this does the exact opposite.
2. Despite him saying most donors are not getting involved, which btw is literally the case everywhere, some are absolutely losing their crap behind the scenes and he panicked.

Like I said either way, it's a bad look and while I'll always take athletic directors going on the record, for his sake he needs to limit his visibility to his ask the ad videos for a long while.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 31, 2021, 10:24:55 PM
Wacks you want oscar to coach the cats next year?
I don’t care. Chiefs are about to win another super bowl. I’m just enjoying hypocrites right now.

No one, and I literally mean no one, other than that Illinois fan I cursed out, is being hypocritical about any of this, like nothing that can even be misinterpreted as hypocrisy..

This is the Alanis Morisette Ironic of all message board posts.
People lose all rationale when it comes to oscar. 90% of the fan base never wanted him and never accepted him from day 1. History shows he’s the 3rd winningest coach in program history, so since they never wanted him, they just brake down his faults. I’m actually happy we have an administration that tries to think through things and not obey to social media dorks who can barely run their own daily head quarters.

That simply isn't true, not even a little bit. I will grant you that some people are irrational about oscar and the root of it is the overwhelming want to be right, even though that ship has sailed. However, your propensity to dismiss any oscar criticism at all is just as extreme. 99% of K-State basketball fans fall somewhere between the continuum of you and trim, but you treat everyone like they're a shitty fan for not wanting to deal with this catastrophe anymore.
lol. Jesus Christ. That’s for proving my point. 😂

If you think people are being hypocritical I'm not going to even pretend I have a solitary clue as to what your point is.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 31, 2021, 10:26:25 PM
Go to bed, MIR, JFC! I honestly don’t care.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on January 31, 2021, 10:29:12 PM
Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.

I can't think of any good that could've come from him even being in a position to be asked things this weekend.  And nobody was even clamoring to hear from him anyway.  It's not like people are going to not buy tickets to the fOOD the rest of the season if they don't hear things they want to hear from him.

I was stunned that he gave one on the record interviews, but two! Holy crap! He'll probably be on with John Kurtz tomorrow as well, so it will likely be 3 interviews in just over 24 hours.

There are only two reasons I can think of and they're both really bad reasons to go out stammering without solid talking points.

1. His boss asked him to try to lower the temperature. Of course this does the exact opposite.
2. Despite him saying most donors are not getting involved, which btw is literally the case everywhere, some are absolutely losing their crap behind the scenes and he panicked.

Like I said either way, it's a bad look and while I'll always take athletic directors going on the record, for his sake he needs to limit his visibility to his ask the ad videos for a long while.

Yup.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on January 31, 2021, 11:23:39 PM
Got to bed, MIR, JFC! I honestly don’t care.

lol, you clearly do. Why so mad?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2021, 11:37:57 PM
Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.

I can't think of any good that could've come from him even being in a position to be asked things this weekend.  And nobody was even clamoring to hear from him anyway.  It's not like people are going to not buy tickets to the fOOD the rest of the season if they don't hear things they want to hear from him.

I was stunned that he gave one on the record interviews, but two! Holy crap! He'll probably be on with John Kurtz tomorrow as well, so it will likely be 3 interviews in just over 24 hours.

There are only two reasons I can think of and they're both really bad reasons to go out stammering without solid talking points.

1. His boss asked him to try to lower the temperature. Of course this does the exact opposite.
2. Despite him saying most donors are not getting involved, which btw is literally the case everywhere, some are absolutely losing their crap behind the scenes and he panicked.

Like I said either way, it's a bad look and while I'll always take athletic directors going on the record, for his sake he needs to limit his visibility to his ask the ad videos for a long while.

It's a bad look to whom? I only read the Mercury one and it seemed fine. :dunno:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on January 31, 2021, 11:38:46 PM
Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.

Yup.

Kind of feel like he’s sitting at home, genuinely confused, telling himself a win against KU this week will fix everything.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 12:35:35 AM
Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.

I can't think of any good that could've come from him even being in a position to be asked things this weekend.  And nobody was even clamoring to hear from him anyway.  It's not like people are going to not buy tickets to the fOOD the rest of the season if they don't hear things they want to hear from him.

I was stunned that he gave one on the record interviews, but two! Holy crap! He'll probably be on with John Kurtz tomorrow as well, so it will likely be 3 interviews in just over 24 hours.

There are only two reasons I can think of and they're both really bad reasons to go out stammering without solid talking points.

1. His boss asked him to try to lower the temperature. Of course this does the exact opposite.
2. Despite him saying most donors are not getting involved, which btw is literally the case everywhere, some are absolutely losing their crap behind the scenes and he panicked.

Like I said either way, it's a bad look and while I'll always take athletic directors going on the record, for his sake he needs to limit his visibility to his ask the ad videos for a long while.

It's a bad look to whom? I only read the Mercury one and it seemed fine. :dunno:

First of all, maybe go ahead and read both articles.

It's a bad look because going on the record, in that manner, isn't going to change anyone's mind, what's the point? The people who are the most pissed are only going to get angrier. Was the point to make oscar feel better?

I think you know me to be rational about this stuff, I think he's done but I'm not going to stop being a fan if I come back. Even non burn it down me sees a real problem in his mixed messaging.

From the Mercury article
Quote
According to K-State athletics director Gene Taylor, however, there is no uncertainty. Barring something entirely unforeseen — specifically, a situation not involving on-court results — Weber will return as the Wildcats' head coach next year regardless of how the team finishes this season.

"That's our intention," Taylor told The Mercury in a phone interview Saturday night.

Now I know those, for the most part aren't his words, but one of three beat writers this team has seems pretty clear about the framing of the quote.

Now, just hours later to another of the three beat writers.
Quote
Taylor told the Wichita Eagle on Sunday that he didn’t feel comfortable sharing his thoughts on Weber’s future or the men’s basketball team with more than a month left in the season, saying “it’s not fair to anyone.” But he decided to do it because fans are frustrated and speculation is beginning to grow.

His plan is to let the season play out and then discuss the future of the program with Weber afterward.

“There is still a lot of basketball left to play,” Taylor said. “The players are going to continue to work hard and the players are going to continue to work hard. I always evaluate all the way through. I don’t stop evaluating. Let’s see how we finish the season and go from there.”

So let's take him for his word, he's talking to ease frustrations. Do you really think he's doing that? How about how his coach feels? Looks like he didn't like Ryan Black's interpretation so he hedged with Kellis

You know and I know that he's going to assess a series of factors when the season is over, the people he's presumably talking to don't want to hear that. When he made the decision to talk to Ryan Black that should have been what he conveyed, he didn't do that now he's scuffling and has made everyone feel uneasy.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 01, 2021, 01:03:30 AM
Wackster since you seem to be the most outspoken weber supporter on this blog, maybe you can help me understand something. As you've stated about a million times...weber has had far more success than frank ever did (see confy champs...i guess the E8 think would be a wash since both of them took the cats to exactly one E8 game but i digress) so if weber's team have achieved so much more...where tf did the fans go? 

when frank was here the place was nutty, and it was nutty b/c the fans cared, and they cared because they appreciated what they were seeing on the court. i have not heard a single one of weber's teams described as JYCs except maybe his first year since it was still all frank's players. but those guys were scrappy and they got after it and maybe it was frank's coaching style but they rarely ever just looked completely lost out there, they were always giving it everything they had and if they didn't frank would pull them and put in someone who would, and i think the fans recognized and appreciated it. I'm not saying every game was close, there are plenty of games we got our asses kicked with frank, but we had a brand and a home court advantage.

You'd think that since weber just continued and built upon frank's success...the gameday experience would just continue to grow because why wouldn't success beget even more passion from the fans? so like, what happened?

were the vast majority of the fans die hard frankites? have the teams of the last 9 years been every bit as scrappy but the fans just don't appreciate it anymore? have the fans grown bored with having an intimidating home court advantage? and instead would rather even the playing field and maybe create more of a semi neutral court atmosphere?

I dunno man, I'm just asking, maybe you can help me understand. maybe the OOD was tired and played out, maybe having players described as JYC's was small timey? it just seems weird that the fans completely changed even though we kept getting better
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 01, 2021, 01:40:33 AM
I keep seeing this and it is my favorite out of all the contrived things to care about.

a losing conference record after nine years

Contrived. BS word by an apologist for failure.
It's a legitimate benchmark, considering the pillow-soft non-conference schedules Oscar regularly treats us to.

How many losing conference records did Snyder have once he'd been here for nine years? How many times did you think he should be fired for it?

3. And hot take here but the ‘88 football program Snyder took over was in much worse shape than the ‘11 basketball program oscar took over. Also after 9 years his teams were consistently improving. Chum I assume you’re being facetious and I’m just not picking up on it bc this is otherwise a monumentally stupid comparison

No, the idea that a coach shouldn't have a bad season after they've been around long enough to have things figured out is rough ridin' stupid.

i don't think anyone would be calling for his head after one bad season. but this has been 2 bad seasons. like, historically bad seasons. like how could this team have won the conference just 2 years ago? And on top of that, there is absolutely no reason to think its going to get any better next year. Barring it a miracle it will be 3 seasons of absolute dumpster fire trash and that is not hyperbole the team has been so gd bad the last 2 years. So just a quick recap for the folks at home:
2015: bad team, no postseason
2016: bad team, no postseason
2017: milquetoast team. ever so barely makes it to the play in game as an 11 seed (so like, quite literally one of the last 4 at large teams to get selected)
2018: yay umbc
2019: conf champs that's cool, but shitty luck we get stuck with the juggernauts of the west, UC Irvine. tough luck on that draw.
2020: atrocious
2021: i shouldn't have used the word atrocious to describe the 2020 team b/c its not leaving me much room to sink lower but here we are
2022: barring a miracle this team is going to be hovering right around the 2021 team.

So that's the resume over the last 7 years (the majority of his time as the coach). Yeah i mean, he's really been doing a great job, nothing wrong w/ that resume. i don't see where all the hate is coming from.

Also i'm no historian, but if memory serves snyder over a decade of almost continual marked improvement and sustained success, winning the conference championship in his 13th season and then 2 years after he won the conference...gone. idk, food for thought.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 02:45:36 AM
This is the reaction I anticipated.

The lead BID'er in the media, Fitz, has this headline on his site
Quote
Updated: Gene Taylor seems to backtrack on words to Mercury
Title: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on February 01, 2021, 07:12:23 AM
Wacky, let me put it in terms you might understand better. Pretend we are married to oscar.  We’ve had our ups and downs, sure. Great times, okay times, that one time he got lit with Randolph and made out with a spring breaker in Padre, but we forgave him for that and had a couple of the best years of our marriage.

For the last couple years though, he’s been cheating constantly with girls on Tinder, girls at bars, at hotels on the road, wherever.  Some of them are at least a level of two below us, but he just can’t help himself. He keeps cheating on us and throwing it in our face.

oscar and some of our friends are telling us we need to stay with him for the kids, at least until they grow up and are out of the house. They say things are going to get good again, and it isn’t like we are some hot catch, so we probably can’t do better and might as well stay with oscar.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 01, 2021, 07:33:04 AM
I keep seeing this and it is my favorite out of all the contrived things to care about.

a losing conference record after nine years

Contrived. BS word by an apologist for failure.
It's a legitimate benchmark, considering the pillow-soft non-conference schedules Oscar regularly treats us to.

How many losing conference records did Snyder have once he'd been here for nine years? How many times did you think he should be fired for it?

3. And hot take here but the ‘88 football program Snyder took over was in much worse shape than the ‘11 basketball program oscar took over. Also after 9 years his teams were consistently improving. Chum I assume you’re being facetious and I’m just not picking up on it bc this is otherwise a monumentally stupid comparison

No, the idea that a coach shouldn't have a bad season after they've been around long enough to have things figured out is rough ridin' stupid.

i don't think anyone would be calling for his head after one bad season. but this has been 2 bad seasons. like, historically bad seasons. like how could this team have won the conference just 2 years ago? And on top of that, there is absolutely no reason to think its going to get any better next year. Barring it a miracle it will be 3 seasons of absolute dumpster fire trash and that is not hyperbole the team has been so gd bad the last 2 years. So just a quick recap for the folks at home:
2015: bad team, no postseason
2016: bad team, no postseason
2017: milquetoast team. ever so barely makes it to the play in game as an 11 seed (so like, quite literally one of the last 4 at large teams to get selected)
2018: yay umbc
2019: conf champs that's cool, but shitty luck we get stuck with the juggernauts of the west, UC Irvine. tough luck on that draw.
2020: atrocious
2021: i shouldn't have used the word atrocious to describe the 2020 team b/c its not leaving me much room to sink lower but here we are
2022: barring a miracle this team is going to be hovering right around the 2021 team.

So that's the resume over the last 7 years (the majority of his time as the coach). Yeah i mean, he's really been doing a great job, nothing wrong w/ that resume. i don't see where all the hate is coming from.

Also i'm no historian, but if memory serves snyder over a decade of almost continual marked improvement and sustained success, winning the conference championship in his 13th season and then 2 years after he won the conference...gone. idk, food for thought.

I wasn't taking issue with any of that, just with what was actually said.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 01, 2021, 07:39:31 AM
I don't think the average fan cares about Frank vs. oscar. If anything, the average fan likes oscar more.

Attendance is a function of consistent winning, which oscar does not do.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2021, 07:42:28 AM
Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.

I can't think of any good that could've come from him even being in a position to be asked things this weekend.  And nobody was even clamoring to hear from him anyway.  It's not like people are going to not buy tickets to the fOOD the rest of the season if they don't hear things they want to hear from him.

I was stunned that he gave one on the record interviews, but two! Holy crap! He'll probably be on with John Kurtz tomorrow as well, so it will likely be 3 interviews in just over 24 hours.

There are only two reasons I can think of and they're both really bad reasons to go out stammering without solid talking points.

1. His boss asked him to try to lower the temperature. Of course this does the exact opposite.
2. Despite him saying most donors are not getting involved, which btw is literally the case everywhere, some are absolutely losing their crap behind the scenes and he panicked.

Like I said either way, it's a bad look and while I'll always take athletic directors going on the record, for his sake he needs to limit his visibility to his ask the ad videos for a long while.

It's a bad look to whom? I only read the Mercury one and it seemed fine. :dunno:

First of all, maybe go ahead and read both articles.

It's a bad look because going on the record, in that manner, isn't going to change anyone's mind, what's the point? The people who are the most pissed are only going to get angrier. Was the point to make oscar feel better?

I think you know me to be rational about this stuff, I think he's done but I'm not going to stop being a fan if I come back. Even non burn it down me sees a real problem in his mixed messaging.

From the Mercury article
Quote
According to K-State athletics director Gene Taylor, however, there is no uncertainty. Barring something entirely unforeseen — specifically, a situation not involving on-court results — Weber will return as the Wildcats' head coach next year regardless of how the team finishes this season.

"That's our intention," Taylor told The Mercury in a phone interview Saturday night.

Now I know those, for the most part aren't his words, but one of three beat writers this team has seems pretty clear about the framing of the quote.

Now, just hours later to another of the three beat writers.
Quote
Taylor told the Wichita Eagle on Sunday that he didn’t feel comfortable sharing his thoughts on Weber’s future or the men’s basketball team with more than a month left in the season, saying “it’s not fair to anyone.” But he decided to do it because fans are frustrated and speculation is beginning to grow.

His plan is to let the season play out and then discuss the future of the program with Weber afterward.

“There is still a lot of basketball left to play,” Taylor said. “The players are going to continue to work hard and the players are going to continue to work hard. I always evaluate all the way through. I don’t stop evaluating. Let’s see how we finish the season and go from there.”

So let's take him for his word, he's talking to ease frustrations. Do you really think he's doing that? How about how his coach feels? Looks like he didn't like Ryan Black's interpretation so he hedged with Kellis

You know and I know that he's going to assess a series of factors when the season is over, the people he's presumably talking to don't want to hear that. When he made the decision to talk to Ryan Black that should have been what he conveyed, he didn't do that now he's scuffling and has made everyone feel uneasy.
I hit the paywall for the Eagle, but meh.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 01, 2021, 07:52:04 AM
I don't think the average fan cares about Frank vs. oscar. If anything, the average fan likes oscar more.

Attendance is a function of consistent winning, which oscar does not do.

Yup. I'd also note that oscar has coached here during a decade that has seen the biggest drop in attendance across all live events nationwide.

So, when you're a personality like oscar, and your lows are pretty low (and now stupid low the last 2 years), attendance is going to hurt even worse in the not great years.

For another day, but I hope a Bramlage reno can take out 2k+ seats.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 01, 2021, 08:17:27 AM
People lose all rationale when it comes to oscar. 90% of the fan base never wanted him and never accepted him from day 1. History shows he’s the 3rd winningest coach in program history, so since they never wanted him, they just brake down his faults. I’m actually happy we have an administration that tries to think through things and not obey to social media dorks who can barely run their own daily head quarters.

That simply isn't true, not even a little bit. I will grant you that some people are irrational about oscar and the root of it is the overwhelming want to be right, even though that ship has sailed. However, your propensity to dismiss any oscar criticism at all is just as extreme. 99% of K-State basketball fans fall somewhere between the continuum of you and trim, but you treat everyone like they're a shitty fan for not wanting to deal with this catastrophe anymore.
The same cast of characters have been saying "fire oscar" from day 1. Sorry if it's lost it's luster with me. Classic boy who cried wolf routine.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 01, 2021, 08:27:12 AM
Wacky, let me put it in terms you might understand better. Pretend we are married to oscar.  We’ve had our ups and downs, sure. Great times, okay times, that one time he got lit with Randolph and made out with a spring breaker in Padre, but we forgave him for that and had a couple of the best years of our marriage.

For the last couple years though, he’s been cheating constantly with girls on Tinder, girls at bars, at hotels on the road, wherever.  Some of them are at least a level of two below us, but he just can’t help himself. He keeps cheating on us and throwing it in our face.

oscar and some of our friends are telling us we need to stay with him for the kids, at least until they grow up and are out of the house. They say things are going to get good again, and it isn’t like we are some hot catch, so we probably can’t do better and might as well stay with oscar.
I'm well aware of what's going on out there. A big portion of our fanbase tried to shove Gottlieb and Seth Litrell down our throats and have always been #TeamBID (while being dead silent during conference titles) and all i'm saying is, maybe don't listen to those guys anymore either, because they don't know jack crap.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 01, 2021, 08:36:48 AM
I don't think the average fan cares about Frank vs. oscar. If anything, the average fan likes oscar more.

Attendance is a function of consistent winning, which oscar does not do.

FTR i wasn't trying to say we should get frank back, i realize that was never going to be a possibility. he just happens to be the guy that oscar replaced and we need to compare oscar to SOMETHING, and the last guy seems like the most logical/relevant choice. like it wouldn't make a lot of sense to compare weber to like, tex winter for example
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on February 01, 2021, 09:10:00 AM
Wacky, let me put it in terms you might understand better. Pretend we are married to oscar.  We’ve had our ups and downs, sure. Great times, okay times, that one time he got lit with Randolph and made out with a spring breaker in Padre, but we forgave him for that and had a couple of the best years of our marriage.

For the last couple years though, he’s been cheating constantly with girls on Tinder, girls at bars, at hotels on the road, wherever.  Some of them are at least a level of two below us, but he just can’t help himself. He keeps cheating on us and throwing it in our face.

oscar and some of our friends are telling us we need to stay with him for the kids, at least until they grow up and are out of the house. They say things are going to get good again, and it isn’t like we are some hot catch, so we probably can’t do better and might as well stay with oscar.
I'm well aware of what's going on out there. A big portion of our fanbase tried to shove Gottlieb and Seth Litrell down our throats and have always been #TeamBID (while being dead silent during conference titles) and all i'm saying is, maybe don't listen to those guys anymore either, because they don't know jack crap.

15 people on gE isn't a big portion of the fanbase unless Oscar has driven out more fans than I realize.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on February 01, 2021, 09:43:18 AM
Classic boy who cried wolf routine.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/kPtv3UIPrv36cjxqLs/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 10:30:27 AM
Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.

I can't think of any good that could've come from him even being in a position to be asked things this weekend.  And nobody was even clamoring to hear from him anyway.  It's not like people are going to not buy tickets to the fOOD the rest of the season if they don't hear things they want to hear from him.

I was stunned that he gave one on the record interviews, but two! Holy crap! He'll probably be on with John Kurtz tomorrow as well, so it will likely be 3 interviews in just over 24 hours.

There are only two reasons I can think of and they're both really bad reasons to go out stammering without solid talking points.

1. His boss asked him to try to lower the temperature. Of course this does the exact opposite.
2. Despite him saying most donors are not getting involved, which btw is literally the case everywhere, some are absolutely losing their crap behind the scenes and he panicked.

Like I said either way, it's a bad look and while I'll always take athletic directors going on the record, for his sake he needs to limit his visibility to his ask the ad videos for a long while.

It's a bad look to whom? I only read the Mercury one and it seemed fine. :dunno:

First of all, maybe go ahead and read both articles.

It's a bad look because going on the record, in that manner, isn't going to change anyone's mind, what's the point? The people who are the most pissed are only going to get angrier. Was the point to make oscar feel better?

I think you know me to be rational about this stuff, I think he's done but I'm not going to stop being a fan if I come back. Even non burn it down me sees a real problem in his mixed messaging.

From the Mercury article
Quote
According to K-State athletics director Gene Taylor, however, there is no uncertainty. Barring something entirely unforeseen — specifically, a situation not involving on-court results — Weber will return as the Wildcats' head coach next year regardless of how the team finishes this season.

"That's our intention," Taylor told The Mercury in a phone interview Saturday night.

Now I know those, for the most part aren't his words, but one of three beat writers this team has seems pretty clear about the framing of the quote.

Now, just hours later to another of the three beat writers.
Quote
Taylor told the Wichita Eagle on Sunday that he didn’t feel comfortable sharing his thoughts on Weber’s future or the men’s basketball team with more than a month left in the season, saying “it’s not fair to anyone.” But he decided to do it because fans are frustrated and speculation is beginning to grow.

His plan is to let the season play out and then discuss the future of the program with Weber afterward.

“There is still a lot of basketball left to play,” Taylor said. “The players are going to continue to work hard and the players are going to continue to work hard. I always evaluate all the way through. I don’t stop evaluating. Let’s see how we finish the season and go from there.”

So let's take him for his word, he's talking to ease frustrations. Do you really think he's doing that? How about how his coach feels? Looks like he didn't like Ryan Black's interpretation so he hedged with Kellis

You know and I know that he's going to assess a series of factors when the season is over, the people he's presumably talking to don't want to hear that. When he made the decision to talk to Ryan Black that should have been what he conveyed, he didn't do that now he's scuffling and has made everyone feel uneasy.
I hit the paywall for the Eagle, but meh.

Rusty, are you just playing the role contrarian here?


Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2021, 10:34:47 AM
I just don't think it matters much. Yeah he walked it back a bit but other than a dozen or so folks on Twitter no one cares
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 01, 2021, 10:59:48 AM
Does anyone think he isn’t going to fire oscar?   I assumed we all think that’s going to happen.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 01, 2021, 11:07:11 AM
I'll honestly be shocked if Gene fires oscar this year. I will not be shocked if I am wrong.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on February 01, 2021, 11:13:51 AM
i'd be shocked if he fires him.  wanting winning teams but accepting losing ones is the k-state way.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 01, 2021, 11:14:01 AM
Why do you think he won’t fire oscar?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 01, 2021, 11:27:05 AM
Firing a coach two years after a conference championship seems highly unusual.

And I haven't seen signs of some obvious big push from boosters or anything.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 11:29:01 AM
I just don't think it matters much. Yeah he walked it back a bit but other than a dozen or so folks on Twitter no one cares

You didn't take exception to how much it matters, of course nothing really matters does it? You questioned my assessment that Gene making these statements were bad optics. At this point I'm certain Gene regrets how those interviews turned out, unless he's cool with looking like he's waffling on the status of his men's basketball coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Spracne on February 01, 2021, 11:32:58 AM
Classic boy who cried wolf routine.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/kPtv3UIPrv36cjxqLs/giphy.gif)

You mean where the boy was telling the truth and died violently because no one heeded his cries?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I just don't think it matters much. Yeah he walked it back a bit but other than a dozen or so folks on Twitter no one cares

You didn't take exception to how much it matters, of course nothing really matters does it? You questioned my assessment that Gene making these statements were bad optics. At this point I'm certain Gene regrets how those interviews turned out, unless he's cool with looking like he's waffling on the status of his men's basketball coach.

What matters to Gene (and really should) is the financial health of the Athletic Department. If firing oscar is best for the bottom line long-term, he's gone. I can see how both firing and retaining could be the right financial moves TBH. His somewhat sloppy interviews don't impact anything financially or hurt us with recruits or future coaches. Big donors that are concerned get a phone call. Seriously, what's the REAL damage here?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
I just don't think it matters much. Yeah he walked it back a bit but other than a dozen or so folks on Twitter no one cares

You didn't take exception to how much it matters, of course nothing really matters does it? You questioned my assessment that Gene making these statements were bad optics. At this point I'm certain Gene regrets how those interviews turned out, unless he's cool with looking like he's waffling on the status of his men's basketball coach.

What matters to Gene (and really should) is the financial health of the Athletic Department. If firing oscar is best for the bottom line long-term, he's gone. I can see how both firing and retaining could be the right financial moves TBH. His somewhat sloppy interviews don't impact anything financially or hurt us with recruits or future coaches. Big donors that are concerned get a phone call. Seriously, what's the REAL damage here?

Again, you've moved the goal posts. I never and would never claim any of that isn't true. This is how we got here.

Why is gene talking?

I don't know but for the first time since he's been here I think he's behaving as if he's over his head. I thought he also talked too much about the Stanford game.

I can't think of any good that could've come from him even being in a position to be asked things this weekend.  And nobody was even clamoring to hear from him anyway.  It's not like people are going to not buy tickets to the fOOD the rest of the season if they don't hear things they want to hear from him.

I was stunned that he gave one on the record interviews, but two! Holy crap! He'll probably be on with John Kurtz tomorrow as well, so it will likely be 3 interviews in just over 24 hours.

There are only two reasons I can think of and they're both really bad reasons to go out stammering without solid talking points.

1. His boss asked him to try to lower the temperature. Of course this does the exact opposite.
2. Despite him saying most donors are not getting involved, which btw is literally the case everywhere, some are absolutely losing their crap behind the scenes and he panicked.

Like I said either way, it's a bad look and while I'll always take athletic directors going on the record, for his sake he needs to limit his visibility to his ask the ad videos for a long while.

It's a bad look to whom? I only read the Mercury one and it seemed fine. :dunno:

I agree that his shitty messaging ultimately doesn't hurt anything, I never claimed otherwise. All I said is that it is a bad look. I am certain that we can find common ground that if any supervisor makes the unusual choice to publicly comment on the future employment status of his/her subordinate they should be firm on the messaging. It's not a great for your customers or the employee that you're commenting on if literally every single media member covering your program are using words like backtracking and unsure to describe your public comments.

Since we certainly agree on that and on the fact that it ultimately won't mean anything other than it makes Gene look like a buffoon, we can simply move on.

If you really want a jump off point to keep this going, I will point out that the fact that this likely isn't harmful to recruits is another indictment on oscar and where he is. If he had any recruits that we cared even a little bit about, we would absolutely be worried that the athletic director is publically unsure about the future of his coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2021, 12:35:17 PM
all fair - I don't think it's a sign he's "in over his head" at all but yeah not worth discussing more
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on February 01, 2021, 12:41:12 PM
I didn't think oscar was capable of getting fired this year until the Baylor game. A 30 pt KU loss combined with losing out should do it.  I don't know that we're capable of winning a game with the competition we have left but I also don't know that KU is capable of beating us by 30.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 01, 2021, 12:42:20 PM
Firing a coach two years after a conference championship seems highly unusual.

And I haven't seen signs of some obvious big push from boosters or anything.

It's not as unusual as finishing dead last 2 consecutive years after winning a conference championship. I will be shocked if oscar doesn't get fired. Gene has balls of steel if he doesn't fire him.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 01, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
They're not dead last, but carry on.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on February 01, 2021, 12:53:34 PM
oscar is primed to whip ku's ass this year
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: mocat on February 01, 2021, 12:58:08 PM
They're not dead last, but carry on.

 :lol:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 01, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
They're not dead last, but carry on.

 :lol:
Just state facts when you're melting down on here, people. That's all I want.  :dunno: :)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 01, 2021, 01:10:56 PM
I didn't think oscar was capable of getting fired this year until the Baylor game. A 30 pt KU loss combined with losing out should do it.  I don't know that we're capable of winning a game with the competition we have left but I also don't know that KU is capable of beating us by 30.

they very much are capable of that
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 01, 2021, 01:12:32 PM
Firing a coach two years after a conference championship seems highly unusual.

And I haven't seen signs of some obvious big push from boosters or anything.

It's not as unusual as finishing dead last 2 consecutive years after winning a conference championship. I will be shocked if oscar doesn't get fired. Gene has balls of steel if he doesn't fire him.

I don’t think he has any reason to retain oscar, it’s not his guy.  It would be incredibly popular with the fan base to fire him. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 01, 2021, 01:45:56 PM
I don't understand the reasons to fire him before his buyout drops.  We would want to see who comes out of the tourn-a-ment lookin all hawt anyway
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 01, 2021, 01:48:01 PM
I don’t think he has any reason to retain oscar, it’s not his guy.  It would be incredibly popular with the fan base to fire him. 

It's more work to fire and hire a coach, assuming he doesn't have a dakotan already in place.  Plus he'd be immediately risking any goodwill that would come from firing oscar by hiring someone shitty.

Does he need any of that headache or can he just coast it out a few more years?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 01, 2021, 01:51:48 PM
How has covid affected his search firm bros?  Does he need to give one of them 6 figures of KSU money to hire a guy he was going to hire all along?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on February 01, 2021, 01:54:39 PM
They're not dead last, but carry on.
*Dead last in school history


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on February 01, 2021, 01:56:02 PM
I don’t think he has any reason to retain oscar, it’s not his guy.  It would be incredibly popular with the fan base to fire him. 

It's more work to fire and hire a coach, assuming he doesn't have a dakotan already in place.  Plus he'd be immediately risking any goodwill that would come from firing oscar by hiring someone shitty.

Does he need any of that headache or can he just coast it out a few more years?
Big Gene is gonna coast and ride the damned wave.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 02:05:49 PM
They're not dead last, but carry on.

 :lol:
Just state facts when you're melting down on here, people. That's all I want.  :dunno: :)

Not only aren't we last, but Iowa State might legitimately be worse, they're certainly just as bad and they don't have talented freshmen to point to, they have one talented freshman and he's out for the year. I'd argue that losing to Mississippi State by 40 is much worse than losing to Baylor by 50, but that's a hair split.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 02:08:06 PM
Firing a coach two years after a conference championship seems highly unusual.

And I haven't seen signs of some obvious big push from boosters or anything.

It's not as unusual as finishing dead last 2 consecutive years after winning a conference championship. I will be shocked if oscar doesn't get fired. Gene has balls of steel if he doesn't fire him.

If he didn't prove he had balls when he fired Snyder, he'll never prove that. I don't think being ballsy is an issue for him.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 01, 2021, 02:12:31 PM
Firing a coach two years after a conference championship seems highly unusual.

And I haven't seen signs of some obvious big push from boosters or anything.

It's not as unusual as finishing dead last 2 consecutive years after winning a conference championship. I will be shocked if oscar doesn't get fired. Gene has balls of steel if he doesn't fire him.

If he didn't prove he had balls when he fired Snyder, he'll never prove that. I don't think being ballsy is an issue for him.

hiring CK was ballsy, too. a lot of folks think it was the easy hire for him, but I think they just have insecurities about feeling small timey
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 02:13:26 PM
I don't understand the reasons to fire him before his buyout drops.  We would want to see who comes out of the tourn-a-ment lookin all hawt anyway

With the pool of candidates we're sure to hire from, if we're claiming poverty, there isn't a reason to fire him before May 2nd other than optics that we are in fact poor. If oscar is interested in working again, he'll want to work out a settlement and do it before then. If he "resigns" it will be because of this.

If Gene does end up having to hire a basketball coach this spring I hope what happens at this year's tournament has absolutely zero bearing on who he hires. I don't care if the NDSU coach goes to the final four, it shouldn't matter to Gene.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 02:15:29 PM
Firing a coach two years after a conference championship seems highly unusual.

And I haven't seen signs of some obvious big push from boosters or anything.

It's not as unusual as finishing dead last 2 consecutive years after winning a conference championship. I will be shocked if oscar doesn't get fired. Gene has balls of steel if he doesn't fire him.

If he didn't prove he had balls when he fired Snyder, he'll never prove that. I don't think being ballsy is an issue for him.

hiring CK was ballsy, too. a lot of folks think it was the easy hire for him, but I think they just have insecurities about feeling small timey

Agreed. Not to go all wackycat here but :ROFL: at everyone who wanted to hire that dumb reddirt hick Seth LittreLL, then got mad that we hired Klieman.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on February 01, 2021, 02:18:01 PM
oscar was well on his way to the college of charleston before we took a flyer on him.  whether he wants to work again may not really factor into where he goes from here.

bottom line is that everyone but wacky saw where we are now, coming, when oscar was hired and while he may rally the team to a win or two (i personally think he's lost them), we will be back in this place as long as oscar is our coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 01, 2021, 03:20:40 PM
They're not dead last, but carry on.

 :lol:
Just state facts when you're melting down on here, people. That's all I want.  :dunno: :)

Not only aren't we last, but Iowa State might legitimately be worse, they're certainly just as bad and they don't have talented freshmen to point to, they have one talented freshman and he's out for the year. I'd argue that losing to Mississippi State by 40 is much worse than losing to Baylor by 50, but that's a hair split.

i dunno if there's much value in trying to determine which turd smells shittier
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 01, 2021, 05:08:01 PM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 01, 2021, 05:16:18 PM
Firing a coach two years after a conference championship seems highly unusual.

And I haven't seen signs of some obvious big push from boosters or anything.

It's not as unusual as finishing dead last 2 consecutive years after winning a conference championship. I will be shocked if oscar doesn't get fired. Gene has balls of steel if he doesn't fire him.

If he didn't prove he had balls when he fired Snyder, he'll never prove that. I don't think being ballsy is an issue for him.

hiring CK was ballsy, too. a lot of folks think it was the easy hire for him, but I think they just have insecurities about feeling small timey

Agreed. Not to go all wackycat here but :ROFL: at everyone who wanted to hire that dumb reddirt hick Seth LittreLL, then got mad that we hired Klieman.

Yes and yes.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on February 01, 2021, 07:54:32 PM
Hey so uh.... Nigel Pack liked Ryan Blacks article tweet. I hope he doesn’t leave.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 01, 2021, 08:25:46 PM
Guys!

:Chirp: :Chirp: :Chirp:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 01, 2021, 10:40:29 PM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

I'm sorry, but what? There is no way possible you believe that, simply no way.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 02, 2021, 12:15:15 AM
Leaving out a bunch of pre Post-War coaches:
Gardner, Tex, Fitzsimmons, Hartman, Huggy, Frank - above average

Altman, Oscar -- average 

Wooly, Asbury - below average

If Oscar is allowed to stick around another year and things don't drastically change, you could make an argument for below average, especially when you consider where the program would be at his departure, which would be the lowest point since Asbury's firing.


Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 02, 2021, 02:03:19 AM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

I'm sorry, but what? There is no way possible you believe that, simply no way.

Who is worse than oscar? Who is better? Where does oscar tank on the list? It is closer to the bottom than to the top.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 02, 2021, 03:20:09 AM
This is another really stupid conversation. He's 3rd in program history in wins, 6th in winning percentage, 1 of 6 with a conference championship, and 1 of 7 to be named conference coach of the year.

He and Frank are undoubtedly K-State Hall of Famers.

I don't know why some of you insist on acting like this dude's accomplishments doesn't mean anything. I mean I get it from @EMAWzifried, he's been watching K-State basketball since the Korean War. However, the rest of you dudes have been watching this program since essentially Dana Altman at the latest, we have all watched more bad basketball than good. KU football fans hold Charlie Weiss in higher regard than y'all do with oscar.

I promise that Gene isn't going to keep the dude if we're honest about his legacy on a message board.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on February 02, 2021, 07:36:46 AM
He's last where it matters, in my heart.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on February 02, 2021, 08:01:03 AM
This is another really stupid conversation. He's 3rd in program history in wins, 6th in winning percentage, 1 of 6 with a conference championship, and 1 of 7 to be named conference coach of the year.

He and Frank are undoubtedly K-State Hall of Famers.

I don't know why some of you insist on acting like this dude's accomplishments doesn't mean anything. I mean I get it from @EMAWzifried, he's been watching K-State basketball since the Korean War. However, the rest of you dudes have been watching this program since essentially Dana Altman at the latest, we have all watched more bad basketball than good. KU football fans hold Charlie Weiss in higher regard than y'all do with oscar.

I promise that Gene isn't going to keep the dude if we're honest about his legacy on a message board.


We suck now at a historical level, but thanks for this post MIR.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on February 02, 2021, 08:06:19 AM

I promise that Gene isn't going to keep the dude if we're honest about his legacy on a message board.

Lol
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: tdaver on February 02, 2021, 09:13:57 AM
Total wins isn’t a good metric; it’s just a reflection of his longevity.  Winning percentage will probably be tied with Altman by the end of this season.  But his highs are so much higher.  He’s so hard to pin down in a ranking because of the rollercoaster of success and failure.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210202/8f991c71382cbd76512ce38c805c6afb.jpg)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 02, 2021, 09:17:40 AM
Cliff Rock is such a cool name
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2021, 09:46:33 AM
He's Eli Manning.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/eli-manning-was-an-all-time-average-qb/
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 02, 2021, 09:47:19 AM
The game has passed him by, sad to see him refuse to adjust.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 02, 2021, 09:59:24 AM
He just might be the best and worst coach we have ever had.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 02, 2021, 10:00:58 AM
A Tale of Two Bruces
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on February 02, 2021, 10:12:05 AM
Dr oscar and Mr oscar
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2021, 10:12:54 AM
To be perfectly honest, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head either the winning percentage, number of conference championships, or number of good tournament runs of any K-State "greats". It's more like, "yeah, that dude won some championships and had some good tournament runs." That's all I know about any of them. And oscar absolutely fits those criteria.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: tdaver on February 02, 2021, 10:22:15 AM
Yep, but you could also say “yeah, that dude was awful and we sucked so bad”.  And oscar absolutely fits those criteria as well.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 02, 2021, 10:24:43 AM
Yep, but you could also say “yeah, that dude was awful and we sucked so bad”.  And oscar absolutely fits those criteria as well.

you could do the same for Jack Hartman but no one ever does
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2021, 10:41:55 AM
Yep, but you could also say “yeah, that dude was awful and we sucked so bad”.  And oscar absolutely fits those criteria as well.

you could do the same for Jack Hartman but no one ever does

Yeah, I'm saying I would not do that. As many wouldn't.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on February 02, 2021, 11:06:10 AM
Hartman had more highs and higher lows than oscar.  Was Hartman fired?  Also, I had no idea he randomly coached the women for 7 games in the 90s.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 02, 2021, 11:14:33 AM
Hartman had more highs and higher lows than oscar.  Was Hartman fired?  Also, I had no idea he randomly coached the women for 7 games in the 90s.

He has three conference titles compared to two for oscar. Jack's elite eights were all in 32 team tournaments and just one was in his last 12 seasons. Hard to compare "lowest low" but oscar never had a 4 year stinker run like Jack had at the end.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 02, 2021, 11:24:46 AM
Hartman had more highs and higher lows than oscar.  Was Hartman fired?  Also, I had no idea he randomly coached the women for 7 games in the 90s.

He has three conference titles compared to two for oscar. Jack's elite eights were all in 32 team tournaments and just one was in his last 12 seasons. Hard to compare "lowest low" but oscar never had a 4 year stinker run like Jack had at the end.

Give him another year and oscar will lose more games in a 3 year stretch than Hartman lost in 4.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on February 02, 2021, 11:44:10 AM
Hartman had more highs and higher lows than oscar.  Was Hartman fired?  Also, I had no idea he randomly coached the women for 7 games in the 90s.

He has three conference titles compared to two for oscar. Jack's elite eights were all in 32 team tournaments and just one was in his last 12 seasons. Hard to compare "lowest low" but oscar never had a 4 year stinker run like Jack had at the end.

Hartman didn't have a conference or overall record at any point that is comparable to the last two seasons for oscar.  Hartman's longer run of down years was more like oscar's 14/15 and 15/16 seasons. 

I also don't know how much the 32 team tournament discredits the elite 8 as the difficulty of making the tournament offsets the difficulty of winning another game, imo.  As a 9 seed, oscar wouldn't have an elite 8 here or even a tournament appearance that year if it were still a 32 team tournament.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on February 02, 2021, 11:48:18 AM
Things I learned about Jack Hartman today:

He's not even on the first page of Google results when you search his name (pro tip, add basketball to the search)

He stopped coaching when I was 4 so that's probably why I have no opinion on his tenure or how I feel about him as a coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 02, 2021, 11:56:13 AM
Hartman had more highs and higher lows than oscar.  Was Hartman fired?  Also, I had no idea he randomly coached the women for 7 games in the 90s.

He has three conference titles compared to two for oscar. Jack's elite eights were all in 32 team tournaments and just one was in his last 12 seasons. Hard to compare "lowest low" but oscar never had a 4 year stinker run like Jack had at the end.

Hartman didn't have a conference or overall record at any point that is comparable to the last two seasons for oscar.  Hartman's longer run of down years was more like oscar's 14/15 and 15/16 seasons. 

I also don't know how much the 32 team tournament discredits the elite 8 as the difficulty of making the tournament offsets the difficulty of winning another game, imo.  As a 9 seed, oscar wouldn't have an elite 8 here or even a tournament appearance that year if it were still a 32 team tournament.

finishing 6th, 6th, 5th, and 7th in an 8 team league over a 4 year span is definitely comparable (if not worse). not out of the ballpark by any means

and you're right about the tournament
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on February 02, 2021, 12:09:23 PM
Some info to chew on:

(https://i.imgur.com/m863hyl.png)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2021, 12:12:52 PM
I like how there is a discussion about whether or not oscar will be fired because he sucks crap and also a discussion about whether or not oscar is an all time great based entirely on the win percentage of his worst couple seasons.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 02, 2021, 12:24:49 PM
Since WWII, 11 men have served as the head coach of the Kansas State Men's Basketball Program. Those men are (in order): Jack Gardner, Tex Winter, Cotton Fitzsimmons, Jack Hartman, Lon Kruger, Dana Altman, Tom Asbury, Jim Wooldridge, Bob Huggins, Frank Martin and oscar Weber.

A good way to assess the performance of a coach is how his teams perform in conference play. The parameters are more constant than NCAA records and overall records imo.

Weber's ranks among the 11 KSU coaches post WWII
Conf. Winning Percentage - 8-of-11 (.477)
Winning Percentage - 8-of-11 (.574)
Avg Conference Finish - 8-of-11 (5.5)
Conference title percentage - 5-of-11 (.222)



Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 02, 2021, 12:28:58 PM
Since WWII, every KSU bball coach worse than oscar has been fired for performance.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 02, 2021, 12:31:31 PM
In nearly nine full seasons as KSU head coach oscar had lost more conference games than he has won. The only other Post WWII KSU head coaches you can say that about are:

Jim Wooldridge
Tom Asbury
Dana Altman
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: PIPE on February 02, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
oscar's record last 2 years:

4-23 conference (so far)
16-34 overall (so far)



This is all that matters to me. Total failure.  :sdeek: :buh-bye:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 02, 2021, 02:05:56 PM
I like how there is a discussion about whether or not oscar will be fired because he sucks crap and also a discussion about whether or not oscar is an all time great based entirely on the win percentage of his worst couple seasons.

the problem is that if you look at that graphic Chingon posted, the red area is quite a bit larger than the green area over that 9 year span
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 02, 2021, 02:51:52 PM
Hartman had more highs and higher lows than oscar.  Was Hartman fired?  Also, I had no idea he randomly coached the women for 7 games in the 90s.

He has three conference titles compared to two for oscar. Jack's elite eights were all in 32 team tournaments and just one was in his last 12 seasons. Hard to compare "lowest low" but oscar never had a 4 year stinker run like Jack hNad at the end.


This is wrong. The NCAA first expanded the tournament to 48 teams in 1975. K-State lost the Big-8 championship in the final week with a loss at KU but made the tournament under the new rules. Cats played in the East Regionals, beating Penn and Boston College before losing to Syracuse in overtime heartbreaker.

Also, two of Hartman's best teams (77 and 80) played the eventual national champion before the final eight. Everyone knows the story about the 77, but the 80 team lost to Louisville in overtime. He never lost to a LaSalle of Cal Poly somewhere/something.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
I like how there is a discussion about whether or not oscar will be fired because he sucks crap and also a discussion about whether or not oscar is an all time great based entirely on the win percentage of his worst couple seasons.

the problem is that if you look at that graphic Chingon posted, the red area is quite a bit larger than the green area over that 9 year span

I don't know what the problem is supposed to be. No one honestly ever talks about conference win percentage as if it's something they care about. They talk about things like tournament appearances and conference championships.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 02, 2021, 03:42:34 PM
I like how there is a discussion about whether or not oscar will be fired because he sucks crap and also a discussion about whether or not oscar is an all time great based entirely on the win percentage of his worst couple seasons.

the problem is that if you look at that graphic Chingon posted, the red area is quite a bit larger than the green area over that 9 year span

I don't know what the problem is supposed to be. No one honestly ever talks about conference win percentage as if it's something they care about. They talk about things like tournament appearances and conference championships.

if the graph isn't substantially green then you aren't winning any conference championships. And i don't recall the exact statistic, but basically if you aren't at least .500 in conference (so that would be neither green nor red) then you have little to no hope of making the NCAA tournament. hope that helps.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2021, 03:48:15 PM
I like how there is a discussion about whether or not oscar will be fired because he sucks crap and also a discussion about whether or not oscar is an all time great based entirely on the win percentage of his worst couple seasons.

the problem is that if you look at that graphic Chingon posted, the red area is quite a bit larger than the green area over that 9 year span

I don't know what the problem is supposed to be. No one honestly ever talks about conference win percentage as if it's something they care about. They talk about things like tournament appearances and conference championships.

if the graph isn't substantially green then you aren't winning any conference championships. And i don't recall the exact statistic, but basically if you aren't at least .500 in conference (so that would be neither green nor red) then you have little to no hope of making the NCAA tournament. hope that helps.

Maybe Chingon could just do some graphs of conference championships and tournament appearences by coach. If that was indeed the point, I wonder why he didn't.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ben ji on February 02, 2021, 03:49:13 PM
Hartman had more highs and higher lows than oscar.  Was Hartman fired?  Also, I had no idea he randomly coached the women for 7 games in the 90s.

He has three conference titles compared to two for oscar. Jack's elite eights were all in 32 team tournaments and just one was in his last 12 seasons. Hard to compare "lowest low" but oscar never had a 4 year stinker run like Jack hNad at the end.


This is wrong. The NCAA first expanded the tournament to 48 teams in 1975. K-State lost the Big-8 championship in the final week with a loss at KU but made the tournament under the new rules. Cats played in the East Regionals, beating Penn and Boston College before losing to Syracuse in overtime heartbreaker.

Also, two of Hartman's best teams (77 and 80) played the eventual national champion before the final eight. Everyone knows the story about the 77, but the 80 team lost to Louisville in overtime. He never lost to a LaSalle of Cal Poly somewhere/something.

As a young whippersnapper I had no idea about 1977 so I had to google it

https://themercury.com/k_state_sports/k-states-memorable-1976-77-season-derailed-in-ncaa-tourney/article_3644ba7e-e414-5b2e-adbd-00cc7a32e2ca.html

Quote
"In the late going, it still came down to an opportunity and a chance to win when Evans took a shot from out in the corner and I went up and tipped it in. It was an obvious tip-in and an 'and-one' foul."

Bo Ellis fouled Winston on the play.

"Bo Ellis was like 6-(foot)-10 and I was like a foot above him and tipped the ball in," Winston said. "His hand hit me across my arm, and we were celebrating because they gave us an opportunity now to tie the game with a free throw.

"But a referee came in and blew his whistle and waved the basket off. The rule was so bad that they revisited it and changed it the next year at the NCAA meetings. They deemed it the ;Winston rule,' where a tip-in and a foul simultaneously would be considered a basket and a free-throw attempt."

With Winston's basket waved off, Marquette escaped with a 67-66 win and went on to win the national championship for head coach Al McGuire.

Winston has never forgotten the controversial tip-in-that-wasn't.

"Every basketball game I watch and I see a play similar to that, I just shake my head and think about how Marquette went on and won a national championship (beating North Carolina 67-59), but that could have been us, easily," Winston said. "I had to embrace it and when I went out into the community after that game, every K-State fan — and believe it or not, every KU and Missouri fan that came up to me and talked about it — said it should have counted."


This is wrong. The NCAA first expanded the tournament to 48 teams in 1975. K-State lost the Big-8 championship in the final week with a loss at KU but made the tournament under the new rules. Cats played in the East Regionals, beating Penn and Boston College before losing to Syracuse in overtime heartbreaker.

Also, two of Hartman's best teams (77 and 80) played the eventual national champion before the final eight. Everyone knows the story about the 77, but the 80 team lost to Louisville in overtime. He never lost to a LaSalle of Cal Poly somewhere/something.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 02, 2021, 03:51:04 PM
Hartman had more highs and higher lows than oscar.  Was Hartman fired?  Also, I had no idea he randomly coached the women for 7 games in the 90s.

He has three conference titles compared to two for oscar. Jack's elite eights were all in 32 team tournaments and just one was in his last 12 seasons. Hard to compare "lowest low" but oscar never had a 4 year stinker run like Jack hNad at the end.


This is wrong. The NCAA first expanded the tournament to 48 teams in 1975. K-State lost the Big-8 championship in the final week with a loss at KU but made the tournament under the new rules. Cats played in the East Regionals, beating Penn and Boston College before losing to Syracuse in overtime heartbreaker.

Also, two of Hartman's best teams (77 and 80) played the eventual national champion before the final eight. Everyone knows the story about the 77, but the 80 team lost to Louisville in overtime. He never lost to a LaSalle of Cal Poly somewhere/something.



:thumbs: my mistake!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 02, 2021, 04:39:29 PM
Hartman had more highs and higher lows than oscar.  Was Hartman fired?  Also, I had no idea he randomly coached the women for 7 games in the 90s.

Yeah the end of the 1995-96 season, right before Deb. The coach, Brian Agler, who incidentally went on to be one the oscar Weber on steroids of the WNBA, two championships, two firings in between those championships, got suspended mid year for paying players for doing camps they didn't do. Hartman was just hanging around Manhattan doing men's games for Raycom Sports so they asked him to jump in for the last month.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on February 02, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
I like how there is a discussion about whether or not oscar will be fired because he sucks crap and also a discussion about whether or not oscar is an all time great based entirely on the win percentage of his worst couple seasons.

the problem is that if you look at that graphic Chingon posted, the red area is quite a bit larger than the green area over that 9 year span

I don't know what the problem is supposed to be. No one honestly ever talks about conference win percentage as if it's something they care about. They talk about things like tournament appearances and conference championships.

if the graph isn't substantially green then you aren't winning any conference championships. And i don't recall the exact statistic, but basically if you aren't at least .500 in conference (so that would be neither green nor red) then you have little to no hope of making the NCAA tournament. hope that helps.

Maybe Chingon could just do some graphs of conference championships and tournament appearences by coach. If that was indeed the point, I wonder why he didn't.

(https://i.stack.imgur.com/Iopnv.png)
Percentage of the time the coach took the team to NCAA Tournament

It has fun basketballs for the bars!
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 02, 2021, 04:43:18 PM
Hartman's slide at the end of his career was obviously due to his recruiting. I think like Snyder, he fell for his own coach-em-up hype. Yeah, he never got the top recruits but guys like Evans, Williams and Blackman were legit All-Americans. Norris Coleman was in his final year was the only player of that caliber he signed his final four seasons.
Oddly, he wouldn't have fallen so hard after 82 had he kept the freshmen he had. The Reid kid point guard whose dad was the Dodge City JC coach went on to win two POY Big 10 awards and two forwards had good careers in like the Mid American Conference. Hartman didn't give them enough playing time, especially the Reid kid who could have had more of Jankovich's minutes.
Developing team depth was a Hartman weakness. He just didn't use his bench. It definitely cost us against Marquette when Larry Dassie got in foul trouble.
Apropos the fire  Weber conversation and what sets Hartman much above Oscar was his teams always played well in the tournament and with a little luck could have easily make multiple final fours.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 02, 2021, 04:46:51 PM
The Big 8 at the end of Hartman's stint was stupid good, so damn deep. Finishing at the bottom of a 10 team Big 12 isn't the same as finishing at the bottom of the Big 8 then. 7 of the 8 teams were routinely good and for the most part all spent years finishing in any scrambled order. Colorado was absolute trash, 90's A&M bad.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Jobu on February 02, 2021, 04:51:49 PM
Yeah, the whole oscar thing has run its course, imo.  He has a shelf life, and it's well past that now. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 02, 2021, 04:53:03 PM
I like how there is a discussion about whether or not oscar will be fired because he sucks crap and also a discussion about whether or not oscar is an all time great based entirely on the win percentage of his worst couple seasons.

the problem is that if you look at that graphic Chingon posted, the red area is quite a bit larger than the green area over that 9 year span

I don't know what the problem is supposed to be. No one honestly ever talks about conference win percentage as if it's something they care about. They talk about things like tournament appearances and conference championships.

if the graph isn't substantially green then you aren't winning any conference championships. And i don't recall the exact statistic, but basically if you aren't at least .500 in conference (so that would be neither green nor red) then you have little to no hope of making the NCAA tournament. hope that helps.

Maybe Chingon could just do some graphs of conference championships and tournament appearences by coach. If that was indeed the point, I wonder why he didn't.

(https://i.stack.imgur.com/Iopnv.png)
Percentage of the time the coach took the team to NCAA Tournament

It has fun basketballs for the bars!

Not a straight apples to apples comparison with the expansion of the tourney beyond league champs or even beyong 48 teams. -State didn't get invited in 76 despite winning 20 games and losing the title in the last week to Missouri. I read Garner one year tied KU for the crown, but a KC sports writer pal of Phog Allen basically gave the tourney berth to KU.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 02, 2021, 05:01:13 PM
Chingon, do something science-y that shows how close he’s been to what should’ve been expected when KSU hired him.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 02, 2021, 05:11:56 PM
Probably near impossible to get the data, but it would be interesting to see how coaches performed against team's seeding in the tournament.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 1863 on February 02, 2021, 05:12:23 PM
Chingon, do something science-y that shows how close he’s been to what should’ve been expected when KSU hired him.

I'd like to see him at least 4.25 basketballs higher on that chart.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: jc_jax on February 02, 2021, 05:17:03 PM
I wonder if the play hard chart uses basketballs
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 02, 2021, 05:53:07 PM
I wonder if the play hard chart uses basketballs

Pretty sure Oscar's play hard chart uses cotton balls.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 02, 2021, 07:50:29 PM
Chingon, do something science-y that shows how close he’s been to what should’ve been expected when KSU hired him.

lol, you're too much man
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 02, 2021, 07:54:13 PM
Only down by 8 at halfttime. Bigtime moral victory. Extensions all around.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Spracne on February 02, 2021, 07:56:04 PM
I can't even watch this crap...
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 02, 2021, 07:58:29 PM
I can't even watch this crap...

I’m still in disbelief how bad KU is. 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 02, 2021, 08:06:04 PM
I can't even watch this crap...

I’m still in disbelief how bad KU is.

This is going to probably unpopular but I really don't think their rotation talent wise is better than ours. I firmly believe that if the coaches swapped sidelines at half K-State would win.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Spracne on February 02, 2021, 08:06:57 PM
I can't even watch this crap...

I’m still in disbelief how bad KU is.

No, I meant what channel is it on?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 02, 2021, 08:10:56 PM
I can't even watch this crap...

I’m still in disbelief how bad KU is.

No, I meant what channel is it on?

lol espn+
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on February 02, 2021, 08:11:54 PM
I can't even watch this crap...

I’m still in disbelief how bad KU is.

No, I meant what channel is it on?

lol espn+
Mike “Liability” McGuirl is like a walking boot for this team. Always slowing em down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Spracne on February 02, 2021, 08:20:38 PM
I can't even watch this crap...

I’m still in disbelief how bad KU is.

No, I meant what channel is it on?

lol espn+

I know. I was just being a rascal.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 02, 2021, 08:24:56 PM
I can't even watch this crap...

I’m still in disbelief how bad KU is.

No, I meant what channel is it on?

lol espn+
Mike “Liability” McGuirl is like a walking boot for this team. Always slowing em down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He's no bueno, Billy Hairpiece would absolutely make him serviceable like Marcus Garrett though.

Can you imagine what Billy could do for Pack and Bradford? My God.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on February 02, 2021, 08:26:03 PM
I can't even watch this crap...

I’m still in disbelief how bad KU is.

No, I meant what channel is it on?

lol espn+
Mike “Liability” McGuirl is like a walking boot for this team. Always slowing em down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He's no bueno, Billy Hairpiece would absolutely make him serviceable like Marcus Garrett though.

Can you imagine what Billy could do for Pack and Bradford? My God.
Pack and Bradford will be good someday. Bill would make them monsters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 02, 2021, 08:34:56 PM
The announcers get so bored calling our games, every single rough ridin' one, with the exception of A&M, devolves into story time by mid 2nd half.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 02, 2021, 08:38:12 PM
Quote
Illinois Fighting Illini (Big Ten Conference) (2003–2012)
2003–04   Illinois   26–7   13–3   1st   NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2004–05   Illinois   37–2   15–1   1st   NCAA Division I Runner-up
2005–06   Illinois   26–7   11–5   T–2nd   NCAA Division I Round of 32
2006–07   Illinois   23–12   9–7   T–4th   NCAA Division I Round of 64
2007–08   Illinois   16–19   5–13   T–9th   
2008–09   Illinois   24–10   11–7   T–2nd   NCAA Division I Round of 64
2009–10   Illinois   21–15   10–8   5th   NIT Quarterfinal
2010–11   Illinois   20–14   9–9   T–4th   NCAA Division I Round of 32
2011–12   Illinois   17–15   6–12   9th   
Illinois:   210–101 (.675)   89–65 (.578)   

Kansas State Wildcats (Big 12 Conference) (2012–present)
2012–13   Kansas State   27–8   14–4   T–1st   NCAA Division I Round of 64
2013–14   Kansas State   20–13   10–8   5th   NCAA Division I Round of 64
2014–15   Kansas State   15–17   8–10   T–6th   
2015–16   Kansas State   17–16   5–13   8th   
2016–17   Kansas State   21–14   8–10   6th   NCAA Division I Round of 64
2017–18   Kansas State   25–12   10–8   4th   NCAA Division I Elite Eight
2018–19   Kansas State   25–9   14–4   T–1st   NCAA Division I Round of 64
2019–20   Kansas State   11–21   3–15   10th   
2020–21   Kansas State   5–8   1–4      
Kansas State:   166–118 (.585)   73–76 (.490)
   

I thought these were going to be more similar.  I'd still like to see Chingon do something beyond me cutting and pasting wikipedia to help objectively measure if oscar is failing to meet expectations.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on February 02, 2021, 08:48:51 PM
the worst ku team since the early 80’s is running us by 25+
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 02, 2021, 09:09:46 PM
I didn't think oscar was capable of getting fired this year until the Baylor game. A 30 pt KU loss combined with losing out should do it.  I don't know that we're capable of winning a game with the competition we have left but I also don't know that KU is capable of beating us by 30.

they very much are capable of that

Guessing they probably could have put up another touchdown if they felt like it
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 02, 2021, 09:32:54 PM
I didn't think oscar was capable of getting fired this year until the Baylor game. A 30 pt KU loss combined with losing out should do it.  I don't know that we're capable of winning a game with the competition we have left but I also don't know that KU is capable of beating us by 30.

they very much are capable of that

Guessing they probably could have put up another touchdown if they felt like it

That's about KU's marker, really. They are a shade better than mediocre.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 02, 2021, 11:14:58 PM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

Since WWII......

Since WWII......

Genuinely curious why you chose WWII as the start date for your "below average" argument?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 02, 2021, 11:42:59 PM
Here's how I think I'd rank those 11 post WWII. Would be interested to see how others do (and why) as well.

1. Tex
2. Jack and Jack
4. oscar
5. Frank
6. Lon
7. Cotton
8. Hugs
9. Altman
10. Asbury
11. Wooly
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 03, 2021, 12:21:33 AM
Can confirm oscar sucks ass
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 03, 2021, 02:19:58 AM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

Since WWII......

Since WWII......

Genuinely curious why you chose WWII as the start date for your "below average" argument?

I shouldn’t have said all time. It’s a harder argument to make, but still a case. There is a lack of measurables the further back you go. I started using Post-WWII because that’s when KSU basketball began to set its standard, and I was trying to show that oscar wasn’t up to snuff.

Here is some all-time.

oscar is 12th of 20 all time in conference winning percentage.
He’s 6th out of 20 all time in conference title percentage.
He’s 12th out of 20 all time in *adjusted avg conference finish.

*there were 4 coaches who were very bad, but played in a 6 team big 12. I’ve adjusted for this and placed them below oscar. Unadjusted oscar is 16th of 20 in average conference finish.

All Time NCAA Tournament Achievement Rating:
1. Gardner 4.8
2. Winter 3.73
3. Kruger 3
4. Martin 2.8
5. Hartman 2.625
6. Fitzsimmons 2
7. Webber 1.33
8. Altman .25
9. Asbury .17
14-T (5 coaches) .0









Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 03, 2021, 08:49:58 AM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

Since WWII......

Since WWII......

Genuinely curious why you chose WWII as the start date for your "below average" argument?

Everyone on the court wore boots and a suit and tie before WWII. The game is completely different now.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Jobu on February 03, 2021, 08:55:15 AM
We're gonna run the picket fence at em.  Just don't get caught watchin the paint dry.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 08:55:51 AM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

Since WWII......

Since WWII......

Genuinely curious why you chose WWII as the start date for your "below average" argument?

Everyone on the court wore boots and a suit and tie before WWII. The game is completely different now.

I mean, any sane person can agree the game is different now than it was before WWII... but are you saying it's the same now as it was in 1946?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 09:03:26 AM
All these stats have shown is what we all said, oscar's lows are way too damn low and the last 2 years are beyond unacceptable.

But when it's all said and done, oscar will be the 4th most accomplished coach (out of 23) in K-State Men's basketball history. His embarrassing lows bring down his overall win % and conference %, but his highs are only beat by the best to ever coach at K-State (Tex, Jack, and Jack).

He does not get knocked because he chose to stay at K-State while others ran off to other jobs.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 03, 2021, 09:39:05 AM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

Since WWII......

Since WWII......

Genuinely curious why you chose WWII as the start date for your "below average" argument?

Everyone on the court wore boots and a suit and tie before WWII. The game is completely different now.

I mean, any sane person can agree the game is different now than it was before WWII... but are you saying it's the same now as it was in 1946?

Absolutely not. Shoe technology has improved tremendously since then.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 03, 2021, 09:40:43 AM
Now he’s just somebody that we used to know
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 03, 2021, 09:44:18 AM
He does not get knocked because he chose to stay at K-State while others ran off to other jobs.

Chose?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 09:52:24 AM
He does not get knocked because he chose to stay at K-State while others ran off to other jobs.

Chose?

Lol.

I actually want to see where all the other coaches went when they left K-State. For some reason it feels like most of them took lateral or lesser jobs to leave K-State.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 03, 2021, 09:53:56 AM
if oscar would have chosen to bounce for another gig like 6 years ago i would have been the first in line to donate to the ernie and oscar statue fund.  Anyway, all of this putting his accomplishments in historical context is fine and all, but seems kind of dumb when you just stop and look at the current product. And if you want to point to the success of the not so distant past...okay well literally only 1 player from the conference champion squad is still even on the roster and that's mike. i guess what i'm saying is, essentially none of the players that made those teams successful are still there, so the argument to keep oscar is...what, exactly? maybe he will put together another squad some day that could win the conference? i mean we know it won't be this year, and it won't be next year, so like, okay maybe 2 years from now he could possibly begin to right the ship? lets accept 3 consecutive god awful dumpster fire seasons in the hopes that the 4th season we might finish somewhere between 6th and 8th in the league? good grief what an absolute small time unconfident loser mentality for anyone who thinks this
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on February 03, 2021, 09:59:27 AM
Agree with Big Apple that historical is fine and all, but we're paying for current/future performance which I do not feel consistently good about.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 10:06:29 AM
I think everyone is assuming oscar is gone/should be gone and putting his time here in perspective.

Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on February 03, 2021, 10:09:38 AM
oscar weber owns your souls
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on February 03, 2021, 10:20:11 AM
Jokes on Oscar, I sold my soul in 10th grade for a stick of juicy fruit
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 03, 2021, 10:28:59 AM
Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?

I'd keep him over someone who finishes in the middle of the pack every year. Is there much chance we'd hire someone who'd be better than that?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on February 03, 2021, 10:29:28 AM
Let's talk losing streaks for K-State basketball.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtTnkovXcAEnXJq?format=png&name=240x240)

oscar is trying to match EC Curtis with the worst losing streak in K-State history, though that one did bridge 2 seasons. In 1922 Curtis' Wildcats lost 9 straight, won a game, then lost 5 straight to end the season before starting the 1923 season with another 9 game losing streak. The media guide says 15, but the count is 14 by the schedules. Regardless, oscar is in rare territory here and also trying to match Asbury's 2 losing streaks of 10 games in 1997 and 11 in 2000.

I haven't done the research, but I'm pretty sure losing 4 straight conference games by 20+ each and a combined 119 is a record of some sort too.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 03, 2021, 10:33:39 AM
Well, that chart says oscar already matched Asbury's 2 10 game losing streaks last year, so matching them again this year wouldn't mean much. He needs at least 11 to beat his own personal record at K-State.

Edit: Nevermind, I misread your post. He's trying to do it twice just like Asbury did. Gotcha.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 10:45:30 AM
Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?

I'd keep him over someone who finishes in the middle of the pack every year. Is there much chance we'd hire someone who'd be better than that?

That's not how it works.

People lost their crap when oscar was hired. If you would've told them he'll win the conference twice and make an Elite 8 over the next 7 years, you could shut people up, but you couldn't.

The game is evolving, there could be another Beard out there or there could be another Wooly.

We don't get to know the results before the hire.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 10:50:34 AM
In saying that, I'd take my chances hiring someone like KT Turner. Quality recruiter, and probably getting a head job soon.

I think he can keep the good parts of this roster and add some pieces. I'd like to see what he can do.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 03, 2021, 10:53:21 AM
Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?

I'd keep him over someone who finishes in the middle of the pack every year. Is there much chance we'd hire someone who'd be better than that?

That's not how it works.

People lost their crap when oscar was hired. If you would've told them he'll win the conference twice and make an Elite 8 over the next 7 years, you could shut people up, but you couldn't.

The game is evolving, there could be another Beard out there or there could be another Wooly.

We don't get to know the results before the hire.

I'm saying we kinda do know. And we'd be taking an awfully big gamble. Like Illinois did.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 10:58:13 AM
Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?

I'd keep him over someone who finishes in the middle of the pack every year. Is there much chance we'd hire someone who'd be better than that?

That's not how it works.

People lost their crap when oscar was hired. If you would've told them he'll win the conference twice and make an Elite 8 over the next 7 years, you could shut people up, but you couldn't.

The game is evolving, there could be another Beard out there or there could be another Wooly.

We don't get to know the results before the hire.

I'm saying we kinda do know. And we'd be taking an awfully big gamble. Like Illinois did.

I would typically agree. But at this point, I don't think it's a gamble to say we can hire a guy that can win more than 4 conference games in 2 years.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on February 03, 2021, 11:02:02 AM
Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?

I'd keep him over someone who finishes in the middle of the pack every year. Is there much chance we'd hire someone who'd be better than that?
I think there's a chance. I mean we could 100% flub the next hire (and I am assuming oscar is here for a while), but that still doesn't mean that its impossible to hire a coach who does better than finish in the middle of the pack every year.

BUT I think I get your point.  Over simplifying, but let's say we can broadly but coaches into 4 groups.

1. SLTH --- consistently finishes middle of the pack, never wins anything of value, but doesn't have disastrous seasons either

2. The "Puncher" --- if things line up just right they can win the conference and make a deep run in the tournament, but they can also get knocked the eff out and have teams that completely suck. It's hard to tell when a Puncher will never get back up again.

3. The "Winner" ---  just consistently wins things of value, very rare to find

4. The "Loser" --- just consistently loses, always below .500 in conference and never sniffs the big dance


Personally, I really don't like 1 --- IMHO its a special kind of hell for a fan.  Of course no one likes 4, and everyone wants 3.  I *thought* oscar would be a 1 for us at KSU, but I was obviously wrong.  He's a 2, and I am honest I preferred greatly to have a 2 at KSU over a 1, I always want to believe there is a chance for something great.  The question for me is, can oscar get off the mat again?  I don't know, but if he can then obviously he gives KSU a better chance to win than some derp from the 1 pool. 


Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on February 03, 2021, 11:02:16 AM
oscar is trying to match EC Curtis with the worst losing streak in K-State history, though that one did bridge 2 seasons. In 1922 Curtis' Wildcats lost 9 straight, won a game, then lost 5 straight to end the season before starting the 1923 season with another 9 game losing streak. The media guide says 15, but the count is 14 by the schedules.

ok.  this is something i could get interested in.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Chingon on February 03, 2021, 11:03:54 AM
Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?

I'd keep him over someone who finishes in the middle of the pack every year. Is there much chance we'd hire someone who'd be better than that?

That's not how it works.

People lost their crap when oscar was hired. If you would've told them he'll win the conference twice and make an Elite 8 over the next 7 years, you could shut people up, but you couldn't.

The game is evolving, there could be another Beard out there or there could be another Wooly.

We don't get to know the results before the hire.

I'm saying we kinda do know. And we'd be taking an awfully big gamble. Like Illinois did.
We know that oscar can win if he can turn it around.   I don't think we know if oscar can turn it around again. He might be done, it happens to even the best of coaches.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on February 03, 2021, 11:04:06 AM
Well, that chart says oscar already matched Asbury's 2 10 game losing streaks last year, so matching them again this year wouldn't mean much. He needs at least 11 to beat his own personal record at K-State.

Edit: Nevermind, I misread your post. He's trying to do it twice just like Asbury did. Gotcha.

we need to set our sights on the full 14 (15 to beat).
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 03, 2021, 11:11:39 AM
Well, that chart says oscar already matched Asbury's 2 10 game losing streaks last year, so matching them again this year wouldn't mean much. He needs at least 11 to beat his own personal record at K-State.

Edit: Nevermind, I misread your post. He's trying to do it twice just like Asbury did. Gotcha.

we need to set our sights on the full 14 (15 to beat).

The TCU game is critical.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on February 03, 2021, 11:13:46 AM
Well, that chart says oscar already matched Asbury's 2 10 game losing streaks last year, so matching them again this year wouldn't mean much. He needs at least 11 to beat his own personal record at K-State.

Edit: Nevermind, I misread your post. He's trying to do it twice just like Asbury did. Gotcha.

we need to set our sights on the full 14 (15 to beat).

Emphatically ending "The Streak" with "The Streak". I like it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 03, 2021, 11:13:59 AM
I don't think a consistent middle of the pack coach exists. Everyone but the very best or very worst have ups and downs and the SLTH finishes middle of the pack or bottom of the pack.

oscar just has the wildest highs and lows imaginable
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 11:15:28 AM
Also, if you have a coach that finishes middle of the pack every year, that's a tourney team in the Big 12... every year (7 teams in the tourney 4 of the last 6 years, 6 the other 2). You'd assume they're top of the middle tier some years, and bottom others

But yes, as of today, I would take a tourney team every year for the next 6 years and see what happens.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 11:19:28 AM
Meant tourney/bubble team every year*
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 03, 2021, 11:48:50 AM
I think everyone is assuming oscar is gone/should be gone and putting his time here in perspective.

Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?

If we're not canning his ass for his mask protocol or for losing The Streak, then I think he's delivering what we hired.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 03, 2021, 12:21:28 PM
oscar is anti vax fwiw
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: slackcat on February 03, 2021, 01:16:53 PM
He's in the right state then
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 03, 2021, 06:54:59 PM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

Since WWII......

Since WWII......

Genuinely curious why you chose WWII as the start date for your "below average" argument?

I shouldn’t have said all time. It’s a harder argument to make, but still a case. There is a lack of measurables the further back you go. I started using Post-WWII because that’s when KSU basketball began to set its standard, and I was trying to show that oscar wasn’t up to snuff.

Here is some all-time.

oscar is 12th of 20 all time in conference winning percentage.
He’s 6th out of 20 all time in conference title percentage.
He’s 12th out of 20 all time in *adjusted avg conference finish.

*there were 4 coaches who were very bad, but played in a 6 team big 12. I’ve adjusted for this and placed them below oscar. Unadjusted oscar is 16th of 20 in average conference finish.

All Time NCAA Tournament Achievement Rating:
1. Gardner 4.8
2. Winter 3.73
3. Kruger 3
4. Martin 2.8
5. Hartman 2.625
6. Fitzsimmons 2
7. Webber 1.33
8. Altman .25
9. Asbury .17
14-T (5 coaches) .0

I'm not going to question your numbers here, but goodness you went really niche with these stats to find some metrics that show oscar as below average. I have a media guide, a subscription to kenpom, and look at college basketball and/or football reference or Warren Nolan damn near every day and I've never heard of any of those stats.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 03, 2021, 07:02:08 PM
Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?

I'd keep him over someone who finishes in the middle of the pack every year.

Man, I respect the hell out of you, and your consistency. I'm fairly certain you were one of the people I had an argument about with this 4 years ago when the board was discussing Snyder vs. Sweaty Gary, you made this exact argument for Gary over Snyder. I still disagree with it, I'll take a team who makes the NCAA tournament as a 6-11 seed 4 out of 5 years and who makes the NIT in the off year over what oscar is doing, this is torturous. I watch every second of every game and these last two years I've died a little inside 35 times the last year plus. We're going to end up averaging over 20 losses a year over a two year period of shortened seasons.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 03, 2021, 07:03:05 PM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

Since WWII......

Since WWII......

Genuinely curious why you chose WWII as the start date for your "below average" argument?

I shouldn’t have said all time. It’s a harder argument to make, but still a case. There is a lack of measurables the further back you go. I started using Post-WWII because that’s when KSU basketball began to set its standard, and I was trying to show that oscar wasn’t up to snuff.

Here is some all-time.

oscar is 12th of 20 all time in conference winning percentage.
He’s 6th out of 20 all time in conference title percentage.
He’s 12th out of 20 all time in *adjusted avg conference finish.

*there were 4 coaches who were very bad, but played in a 6 team big 12. I’ve adjusted for this and placed them below oscar. Unadjusted oscar is 16th of 20 in average conference finish.

All Time NCAA Tournament Achievement Rating:
1. Gardner 4.8
2. Winter 3.73
3. Kruger 3
4. Martin 2.8
5. Hartman 2.625
6. Fitzsimmons 2
7. Webber 1.33
8. Altman .25
9. Asbury .17
14-T (5 coaches) .0

I'm not going to question your numbers here, but goodness you went really niche with these stats to find some metrics that show oscar as below average. I have a media guide, a subscription to kenpom, and look at college basketball and/or football reference or Warren Nolan damn near every day and I've never heard of any of those stats.

I always know it’s a hit job when it’s spelled Webber, that crap is a dead giveaway.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 03, 2021, 07:08:49 PM
Is there anyone out there (not on Wildcat Salute) claiming oscar deserves more time?

I'd keep him over someone who finishes in the middle of the pack every year. Is there much chance we'd hire someone who'd be better than that?
I think there's a chance. I mean we could 100% flub the next hire (and I am assuming oscar is here for a while), but that still doesn't mean that its impossible to hire a coach who does better than finish in the middle of the pack every year.

BUT I think I get your point.  Over simplifying, but let's say we can broadly but coaches into 4 groups.

1. SLTH --- consistently finishes middle of the pack, never wins anything of value, but doesn't have disastrous seasons either

2. The "Puncher" --- if things line up just right they can win the conference and make a deep run in the tournament, but they can also get knocked the eff out and have teams that completely suck. It's hard to tell when a Puncher will never get back up again.

3. The "Winner" ---  just consistently wins things of value, very rare to find

4. The "Loser" --- just consistently loses, always below .500 in conference and never sniffs the big dance


Personally, I really don't like 1 --- IMHO its a special kind of hell for a fan.  Of course no one likes 4, and everyone wants 3.  I *thought* oscar would be a 1 for us at KSU, but I was obviously wrong.  He's a 2, and I am honest I preferred greatly to have a 2 at KSU over a 1, I always want to believe there is a chance for something great.  The question for me is, can oscar get off the mat again?  I don't know, but if he can then obviously he gives KSU a better chance to win than some derp from the 1 pool.

I love this, I can't believe I had the misfortune of having two losers when I was a student. I think Frank and Huggins would have ended up being punchers here, as it sits though neither of them figure on this chart. Frank was more SLTH than winner in his time, he unfortunately didn't win anything but the Dishonest Diamondhead Classic.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 03, 2021, 07:09:34 PM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

Since WWII......

Since WWII......

Genuinely curious why you chose WWII as the start date for your "below average" argument?

I shouldn’t have said all time. It’s a harder argument to make, but still a case. There is a lack of measurables the further back you go. I started using Post-WWII because that’s when KSU basketball began to set its standard, and I was trying to show that oscar wasn’t up to snuff.

Here is some all-time.

oscar is 12th of 20 all time in conference winning percentage.
He’s 6th out of 20 all time in conference title percentage.
He’s 12th out of 20 all time in *adjusted avg conference finish.

*there were 4 coaches who were very bad, but played in a 6 team big 12. I’ve adjusted for this and placed them below oscar. Unadjusted oscar is 16th of 20 in average conference finish.

All Time NCAA Tournament Achievement Rating:
1. Gardner 4.8
2. Winter 3.73
3. Kruger 3
4. Martin 2.8
5. Hartman 2.625
6. Fitzsimmons 2
7. Webber 1.33
8. Altman .25
9. Asbury .17
14-T (5 coaches) .0

I'm not going to question your numbers here, but goodness you went really niche with these stats to find some metrics that show oscar as below average. I have a media guide, a subscription to kenpom, and look at college basketball and/or football reference or Warren Nolan damn near every day and I've never heard of any of those stats.

I always know it’s a hit job when it’s spelled Webber, that crap is a dead giveaway.

I didn't want to call nic on that because he's my guy, but yeah, I thought the same thing.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 03, 2021, 08:01:09 PM
When it’s all said and done, oscar will go down as a below average KSU b-ball coach.

Since WWII......

Since WWII......

Genuinely curious why you chose WWII as the start date for your "below average" argument?

I shouldn’t have said all time. It’s a harder argument to make, but still a case. There is a lack of measurables the further back you go. I started using Post-WWII because that’s when KSU basketball began to set its standard, and I was trying to show that oscar wasn’t up to snuff.

Here is some all-time.

oscar is 12th of 20 all time in conference winning percentage.
He’s 6th out of 20 all time in conference title percentage.
He’s 12th out of 20 all time in *adjusted avg conference finish.

*there were 4 coaches who were very bad, but played in a 6 team big 12. I’ve adjusted for this and placed them below oscar. Unadjusted oscar is 16th of 20 in average conference finish.

All Time NCAA Tournament Achievement Rating:
1. Gardner 4.8
2. Winter 3.73
3. Kruger 3
4. Martin 2.8
5. Hartman 2.625
6. Fitzsimmons 2
7. Webber 1.33
8. Altman .25
9. Asbury .17
14-T (5 coaches) .0

I'm not going to question your numbers here, but goodness you went really niche with these stats to find some metrics that show oscar as below average. I have a media guide, a subscription to kenpom, and look at college basketball and/or football reference or Warren Nolan damn near every day and I've never heard of any of those stats.

I always know it’s a hit job when it’s spelled Webber, that crap is a dead giveaway.

I didn't want to call nic on that because he's my guy, but yeah, I thought the same thing.

I’d never stoop that low
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 08:08:02 PM
I’d never stoop that low

Everything considered, no handpicked stats, just your opinion, rank those 11 coaches and their time at K-State 1-11.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 03, 2021, 08:53:00 PM
I’d never stoop that low

Everything considered, no handpicked stats, just your opinion, rank those 11 coaches and their time at K-State 1-11.

Everyone else
----------------
oscar
---------------
Altman
Wooldridge
Asbury

Only oscar made me lose interest.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 10:29:42 PM
I’d never stoop that low

Everything considered, no handpicked stats, just your opinion, rank those 11 coaches and their time at K-State 1-11.

Everyone else
----------------
oscar
---------------
Altman
Wooldridge
Asbury

Only oscar made me lose interest.

Yeah, I know a lot of people that rank Hartman as below average because he went 18-38 in conference his last 4 years. They had lost interest.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 03, 2021, 10:42:05 PM
Just to follow up, Jack Hartman went 18-38 in his last 56 conference games at K-State. When oscar loses the next 7, he will finish 20-36 in his last 56 conference games.

2 K-State greats with poor finishes to their careers here.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 03, 2021, 11:10:04 PM
Just to follow up, Jack Hartman went 18-38 in his last 56 conference games at K-State. When oscar loses the next 7, he will finish 20-36 in his last 56 conference games.

2 K-State greats with poor finishes to their careers here.

 :surprised:  :sdeek: :frown: :horrorsurprise:
Dear God, Jack. I had no idea his finish was that horrific.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 03, 2021, 11:53:43 PM
What have oscar's grandchildren ever done for us?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 04, 2021, 12:26:44 AM
What have oscar's grandchildren ever done for us?

 :fatty:

This will be a tale for 2nd generation gE'rs
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2021, 12:38:55 AM
Just to follow up, Jack Hartman went 18-38 in his last 56 conference games at K-State. When oscar loses the next 7, he will finish 20-36 in his last 56 conference games.

2 K-State greats with poor finishes to their careers here.

 :surprised:  :sdeek: :frown: :horrorsurprise:
Dear God, Jack. I had no idea his finish was that horrific.

Not excusing Jack's final seasons because they are bad, but oscar's last 56 include a conference championship season...
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 04, 2021, 12:47:35 AM
Hartman should have been fired. He left the program in considerably worse hands than he found it. He'd already nearly left for OSU and then they allowed him to come back and coach like 4 more years.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2021, 07:41:41 AM
What have oscar's grandchildren ever done for us?

Lol
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Woogy on February 04, 2021, 09:57:26 AM
Just to follow up, Jack Hartman went 18-38 in his last 56 conference games at K-State. When oscar loses the next 7, he will finish 20-36 in his last 56 conference games.

2 K-State greats with poor finishes to their careers here.

 :surprised:  :sdeek: :frown: :horrorsurprise:
Dear God, Jack. I had no idea his finish was that horrific.

Not excusing Jack's final seasons because they are bad, but oscar's last 56 include a conference championship season...

Jack was able to muster a W here and there amongst losing streaks of 4 and 5 games, with one 6 game L streak and one 7 game L streak in there.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Reggie Singlegur on February 04, 2021, 11:52:04 AM
Just to follow up, Jack Hartman went 18-38 in his last 56 conference games at K-State. When oscar loses the next 7, he will finish 20-36 in his last 56 conference games.

2 K-State greats with poor finishes to their careers here.

 :surprised:  :sdeek: :frown: :horrorsurprise:
Dear God, Jack. I had no idea his finish was that horrific.

Not excusing Jack's final seasons because they are bad, but oscar's last 56 include a conference championship season...

Jack was able to muster a W here and there amongst losing streaks of 4 and 5 games, with one 6 game L streak and one 7 game L streak in there.

One thing to also remember about Hartman is that he had a heart attack just before Big 8 play started in the 84-85 season  and the team was coached by Daryl Winston in his absence. I don't remember exactly how many games he missed, but it was at least half the big 8 season, probably not fair to include those games in his last 56. He probably would have gotten run at the end of the 85-86 season by the used car salesman Larry Travis that we had had as AD back then, but Hartman announced his retirement at the beginning of the Big 8 season in 85-86 and he coached out rest of the year. He was able to stay in town and be the King of Manhattan until Snyder emerged as our new hero. Things were bad those last 4 years, but they were nothing like the last 2, not even close. Weber needs to announce his retirement (like Hartman) immediately to allow KSU to move on without firing him and he can stay in town and be a hero.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 04, 2021, 12:14:59 PM
Just to follow up, Jack Hartman went 18-38 in his last 56 conference games at K-State. When oscar loses the next 7, he will finish 20-36 in his last 56 conference games.

2 K-State greats with poor finishes to their careers here.

 :surprised:  :sdeek: :frown: :horrorsurprise:
Dear God, Jack. I had no idea his finish was that horrific.

Not excusing Jack's final seasons because they are bad, but oscar's last 56 include a conference championship season...

Jack was able to muster a W here and there amongst losing streaks of 4 and 5 games, with one 6 game L streak and one 7 game L streak in there.

One thing to also remember about Hartman is that he had a heart attack just before Big 8 play started in the 84-85 season  and the team was coached by Daryl Winston in his absence. I don't remember exactly how many games he missed, but it was at least half the big 8 season, probably not fair to include those games in his last 56. He probably would have gotten run at the end of the 85-86 season by the used car salesman Larry Travis that we had had as AD back then, but Hartman announced his retirement at the beginning of the Big 8 season in 85-86 and he coached out rest of the year. He was able to stay in town and be the King of Manhattan until Snyder emerged as our new hero. Things were bad those last 4 years, but they were nothing like the last 2, not even close. Weber needs to announce his retirement (like Hartman) immediately to allow KSU to move on without firing him and he can stay in town and be a hero.

Fans werewantinghimtomoveonbecause everyone was eager to bring in Lon. Travis  made a show of a coaching search, but it was a foregone conclusion Lon was coming back  toManhattan. He immediately recruited Mitch, Henson, Scott and Bledsoe. I don't think he's had another recruiting year like that in his career and cetainly not at K-State.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Reggie Singlegur on February 04, 2021, 12:31:18 PM
Just to follow up, Jack Hartman went 18-38 in his last 56 conference games at K-State. When oscar loses the next 7, he will finish 20-36 in his last 56 conference games.

2 K-State greats with poor finishes to their careers here.

 :surprised:  :sdeek: :frown: :horrorsurprise:
Dear God, Jack. I had no idea his finish was that horrific.

Not excusing Jack's final seasons because they are bad, but oscar's last 56 include a conference championship season...

Jack was able to muster a W here and there amongst losing streaks of 4 and 5 games, with one 6 game L streak and one 7 game L streak in there.

One thing to also remember about Hartman is that he had a heart attack just before Big 8 play started in the 84-85 season  and the team was coached by Daryl Winston in his absence. I don't remember exactly how many games he missed, but it was at least half the big 8 season, probably not fair to include those games in his last 56. He probably would have gotten run at the end of the 85-86 season by the used car salesman Larry Travis that we had had as AD back then, but Hartman announced his retirement at the beginning of the Big 8 season in 85-86 and he coached out rest of the year. He was able to stay in town and be the King of Manhattan until Snyder emerged as our new hero. Things were bad those last 4 years, but they were nothing like the last 2, not even close. Weber needs to announce his retirement (like Hartman) immediately to allow KSU to move on without firing him and he can stay in town and be a hero.

Fans werewantinghimtomoveonbecause everyone was eager to bring in Lon. Travis  made a show of a coaching search, but it was a foregone conclusion Lon was coming back  toManhattan. He immediately recruited Mitch, Henson, Scott and Bledsoe. I don't think he's had another recruiting year like that in his career and cetainly not at K-State.

Yea, probably helped Hartman to retire knowing his protégé was going to take over. Too bad we don't have that obvious candidate to take over now.  All the more reason that Weber needs to announce now, so the search can begin.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on February 04, 2021, 01:47:03 PM
chet frazier and The Flush aren't in the building to pick weber up off the mat and i don't see any equivalents that are capable of the heavy lifting that is required to do it. oscar is down for the count. ref is currently at 6 in the required 10 count.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on February 04, 2021, 01:55:00 PM
Just to follow up, Jack Hartman went 18-38 in his last 56 conference games at K-State. When oscar loses the next 7, he will finish 20-36 in his last 56 conference games.

2 K-State greats with poor finishes to their careers here.

 :surprised:  :sdeek: :frown: :horrorsurprise:
Dear God, Jack. I had no idea his finish was that horrific.

Not excusing Jack's final seasons because they are bad, but oscar's last 56 include a conference championship season...

Jack was able to muster a W here and there amongst losing streaks of 4 and 5 games, with one 6 game L streak and one 7 game L streak in there.

One thing to also remember about Hartman is that he had a heart attack just before Big 8 play started in the 84-85 season  and the team was coached by Daryl Winston in his absence. I don't remember exactly how many games he missed, but it was at least half the big 8 season, probably not fair to include those games in his last 56. He probably would have gotten run at the end of the 85-86 season by the used car salesman Larry Travis that we had had as AD back then, but Hartman announced his retirement at the beginning of the Big 8 season in 85-86 and he coached out rest of the year. He was able to stay in town and be the King of Manhattan until Snyder emerged as our new hero. Things were bad those last 4 years, but they were nothing like the last 2, not even close. Weber needs to announce his retirement (like Hartman) immediately to allow KSU to move on without firing him and he can stay in town and be a hero.

Fans werewantinghimtomoveonbecause everyone was eager to bring in Lon. Travis  made a show of a coaching search, but it was a foregone conclusion Lon was coming back  toManhattan. He immediately recruited Mitch, Henson, Scott and Bledsoe. I don't think he's had another recruiting year like that in his career and cetainly not at K-State.

Yea, probably helped Hartman to retire knowing his protégé was going to take over. Too bad we don't have that obvious candidate to take over now.  All the more reason that Weber needs to announce now, so the search can begin.
Who’s to say Chester Frazier shouldn’t be in the conversation for new HC? Like legit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 04, 2021, 02:12:00 PM
What's the homie Henson up to these days? Still at UTSA?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 04, 2021, 02:28:38 PM
Gardner (winner) set a standard
Winter (winner) Maintained it
Fitzsimmons (Winner) - Maintained it
Hartman (winner who stayed too long) - left program worse than he got it. *** was near elite until the garbage stretch at the end, which went on two seasons to long
Kruger (winner) - left program better than he got it. Moved back toward the initial standard
Altman (loser at the time, winner in training) unable to maintain it, left it worse than he found it
Asbury (winner turned loser) - cratered it
Wooly (SLTH) - left it better than he found it. I got nothing but love for wooly
Huggins (winner) a Drasitcally improves the program instantly I’m so many ways. Would have won multiple B12 titles and taken us to the final four had he stayed. Firmly believe this
Martin (puncher/winner combo w/ high floor) maintained what Huggins began well. He did start to falter minimally at the end
Weber (low floor puncher) initially maintained/raised it, cratered it, got another chance, Rekindled it again, then came uber crater 2.0

It’s rare for high-major coaches to survive back-to-back losing seasons at programs (outside of initial rebuilding phase) who give a damn. oscar has the rare opportunity to survive both a 3 season streak and then a two season streak.
 

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 04, 2021, 02:51:03 PM
It’s rare for high-major coaches to survive back-to-back losing seasons at programs (outside of initial rebuilding phase) who give a damn. oscar has the rare opportunity to survive both a 3 season streak and then a two season streak.

When you're on the Mount Rushmore of coaches at a University, you get to stay a little longer than others.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 04, 2021, 02:55:38 PM
It’s rare for high-major coaches to survive back-to-back losing seasons at programs (outside of initial rebuilding phase) who give a damn. oscar has the rare opportunity to survive both a 3 season streak and then a two season streak.

When you're on the Mount Rushmore of coaches at a University, you get to stay a little longer than others.

Lmao
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BostonPancake on February 04, 2021, 05:06:44 PM
What's the homie Henson up to these days? Still at UTSA?

Yep.  Looks like another meh season in the CUSA. 

Best conference record is 11-7 (twice).
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 1863 on February 04, 2021, 05:55:05 PM
         _______
       /________\
    U|  :dubious:  :driving:|U
      |\________/|
      /_\0||||||0/_\
      ||__||||||__||
      U                U


just along for the ride
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: TaqMan on February 04, 2021, 08:21:31 PM
impressive
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 04, 2021, 08:54:28 PM
Gardner (winner) set a standard
Winter (winner) Maintained it
Fitzsimmons (Winner) - Maintained it
Hartman (winner who stayed too long) - left program worse than he got it. *** was near elite until the garbage stretch at the end, which went on two seasons to long
Kruger (winner) - left program better than he got it. Moved back toward the initial standard
Altman (loser at the time, winner in training) unable to maintain it, left it worse than he found it
Asbury (winner turned loser) - cratered it
Wooly (SLTH) - left it better than he found it. I got nothing but love for wooly
Huggins (winner) a Drasitcally improves the program instantly I’m so many ways. Would have won multiple B12 titles and taken us to the final four had he stayed. Firmly believe this
Martin (puncher/winner combo w/ high floor) maintained what Huggins began well. He did start to falter minimally at the end
Weber (low floor puncher) initially maintained/raised it, cratered it, got another chance, Rekindled it again, then came uber crater 2.0

It’s rare for high-major coaches to survive back-to-back losing seasons at programs (outside of initial rebuilding phase) who give a damn. oscar has the rare opportunity to survive both a 3 season streak and then a two season streak.

We're still doing this huh?

How in the eff are you going to call huggins and martin winners? You've lost your ever loving rough ridin' mind, it's beyond even trying to reason with you at this point. I can see why one would hold a 10-6 conference record and nit appearance in such high regard.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on February 04, 2021, 10:12:12 PM
We're still doing this huh?

How in the eff are you going to call huggins and martin winners?

if you're going to include non-kstate years, it's pretty much impossible to not have huggins as a winner.  if you aren't, it's pretty much impossible to not consider martin to be a winner.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2021, 03:51:23 AM
We're still doing this huh?

How in the eff are you going to call huggins and martin winners?

if you're going to include non-kstate years, it's pretty much impossible to not have huggins as a winner.  if you aren't, it's pretty much impossible to not consider martin to be a winner.

The sole context is what these people have done here. If he's considering entire resumes, Frank is very much the opposite of a winner, Huggins' time at West Virginia moves him farther away from being a winner. In fact in the years since Huggins left Cincinnati, oscar and Hugs' resumes are very similar. If we're going to draw a hard line between the two because Huggins bossed The Metro Conference 25 years ago, I suppose one could do that.

Of course considering Frank a winner using context outside of K-State is absolutely hilarious and there's no way nicname would even try it.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 8manpick on February 05, 2021, 06:38:49 AM
We're still doing this huh?

How in the eff are you going to call huggins and martin winners?

if you're going to include non-kstate years, it's pretty much impossible to not have huggins as a winner.  if you aren't, it's pretty much impossible to not consider martin to be a winner.
I mean, sign me up for 23-12, 10-6 and 4th/12 in the conference.  I know that wasn’t a great team, but it’s pretty damn close to qualifying as “winner”.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 05, 2021, 08:44:09 AM
We're still doing this huh?

How in the eff are you going to call huggins and martin winners?

if you're going to include non-kstate years, it's pretty much impossible to not have huggins as a winner.  if you aren't, it's pretty much impossible to not consider martin to be a winner.
I mean, sign me up for 23-12, 10-6 and 4th/12 in the conference.  I know that wasn’t a great team, but it’s pretty damn close to qualifying as “winner”.

We have people that are afraid of firing oscar because the next coach might be "middle of the pack", but those same people consider the results of an NIT season amazing. (I know, Huggins impact was more after he left, but doesn't help my point).
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 05, 2021, 08:48:08 AM
An NIT season is a good season.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 05, 2021, 08:56:31 AM
An NIT season is a good season.

the last NIT the 7th and 8th place B12 teams made it.
the one before that, the 8th and 9th place B12 teams made the NIT.

So, 8th place in the Big 12 is now a good season? It's only a good season or seasons if it's a rebuild sandwiched between NCAA tourney bids.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 05, 2021, 08:58:58 AM
NIT seasons should be considered average. :dubious:

(https://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/1014853897/thumb/1.jpg?ip=x480)

^Yes, the needle is pointing to oscar's results the last 2 years.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2021, 09:11:35 AM
An NIT season is a good season.

We've officially jumped the shark with this discussion.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 05, 2021, 09:29:31 AM
I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 05, 2021, 09:38:15 AM
my hot take of the day is wooly would have gone 9-7 with that Huggs team
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 05, 2021, 10:11:43 AM
NIT teams are indistinguishable from 10 seeds. If you think your team is headed to the NIT, they aren't. It's made up of teams that were snubbed from the tournament.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 05, 2021, 10:27:00 AM
I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 05, 2021, 10:39:32 AM
my hot take of the day is wooly would have gone 9-7 with that Huggs team

Wooly worked his ass off to build that roster back up.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2021, 12:06:06 PM
Can we swap to "the 'ridge" instead of wooly?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 05, 2021, 12:06:37 PM
Can we swap to "the 'ridge" instead of wooly?

absolutely not, what a dumb suggestion
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2021, 12:08:01 PM
Ok, just trying it out  :frown:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: chum1 on February 05, 2021, 12:21:27 PM
I guess he recently retired from being the AD for Riverside City College.

(https://www.pe.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/wooldridge_dwb-16x9-1-1.jpg?w=620)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Kid In the Hall on February 05, 2021, 12:58:41 PM
As it relates to firing oscar, this doesn't really matter. But, it does kind of blow my mind that oscar will undeniably have two seasons worse than any seasons Wooly had despite the dumpster fire Wooly inherited and the top 25ish level program oscar inherited.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 05, 2021, 01:04:25 PM
Not that this matters at all, but looking at coaches that have left, I'll say I wish just Jack Gardner and Huggy would've stayed, but the results have been interesting.

Gardner to Utah - A program a little better than K-State at the time, then took them to multiple Final 4's. Pretty damn solid results.
Huggy to WV - A program very similar/slightly below K-State, then took them to a Final 4. Pretty damn solid results.
Lon to Florida - A program with zero history at the time, then took them to a Final 4. Decent success. Another Final 4 w/ OU.
Frank to SC - A hilariously bad program historically, then took them to a Final 4. Overall, way below .500 conference coach in a bad conference.
Tex to Washington - A program very similar to K-State at the time. Average results, no tourneys the rest of his days.
Cotton to NBA - P. decent results there.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2021, 01:15:10 PM
my hot take of the day is wooly would have gone 9-7 with that Huggs team

Bill Walker didn't really have an impact on that season, I don't think any of the results with him would have been reversed. I think you're right, although I'd be inclined to go 8-8.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 05, 2021, 01:21:27 PM
I also received a text today saying that there have been 12 coaches at K-State since WWII ended.....  :horrorsurprise:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2021, 05:16:06 PM
I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 05, 2021, 05:40:04 PM
I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?

One coach resurrected the program. One took what the other helped build drove it into the dirt.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 05, 2021, 06:35:15 PM
I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?

One coach resurrected the program. One took what the other helped build drove it into the dirt.

There was not a single leftover in the program from Huggy/Frank when oscar went to an Elite 8 and won a conference championship.

Like it or not, that was oscar's program. And the currently dogshit program is oscar's as well, but to me, "resurrecting" a basketball program can be done quickly with roster turnover, and if K-State can get the right coach, he can take the current pieces and win quickly.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 05, 2021, 06:58:55 PM
I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?

One coach resurrected the program. One took what the other helped build drove it into the dirt.

There was not a single leftover in the program from Huggy/Frank when oscar went to an Elite 8 and won a conference championship.

Like it or not, that was oscar's program. And the currently dogshit program is oscar's as well, but to me, "resurrecting" a basketball program can be done quickly with roster turnover, and if K-State can get the right coach, he can take the current pieces and win quickly.

Agree.

Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 05, 2021, 07:21:40 PM
Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 05, 2021, 07:23:02 PM
Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.

Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 05, 2021, 07:35:07 PM
I think oscar is just as likely to win another dr. pepper or go to an Elite Eight over the next five years as his replacement would be
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 05, 2021, 07:35:53 PM
Get lost cRusty
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 05, 2021, 07:50:01 PM
Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.

Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?

Uh...Because if 100% of the fan base (this would include donors) think he can’t, he’d be fired already?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ELL3 on February 05, 2021, 07:59:14 PM
Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.

Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?

Uh...Because if 100% of the fan base (this would include donors) think he can’t, he’d be fired already?

Other than Ice who are the pro Oscar donors??
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 05, 2021, 08:56:35 PM
Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.

Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?

Uh...Because if 100% of the fan base (this would include donors) think he can’t, he’d be fired already?

He already has been fired, they are just giving him the opportunity to frame it as retirement.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 05, 2021, 09:08:10 PM
Hell yes!

:cheers:
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on February 05, 2021, 10:06:12 PM
huggins is like a top ten all time wins, multiple final fours coach.  sure, that's partly because he's had a long career, but if he doesn't make the cut as a "winner", the term basically is irrelevant to any discussion of kstate coaches.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2021, 10:37:35 PM
huggins is like a top ten all time wins, multiple final fours coach.  sure, that's partly because he's had a long career, but if he doesn't make the cut as a "winner", the term basically is irrelevant to any discussion of kstate coaches.

Sys, Huggins hasn't fit what chingon classified as a winner in 20 years.

Over simplifying, but let's say we can broadly but coaches into 4 groups.

1. SLTH --- consistently finishes middle of the pack, never wins anything of value, but doesn't have disastrous seasons either

2. The "Puncher" --- if things line up just right they can win the conference and make a deep run in the tournament, but they can also get knocked the eff out and have teams that completely suck. It's hard to tell when a Puncher will never get back up again.

3. The "Winner" ---  just consistently wins things of value, very rare to find

4. The "Loser" --- just consistently loses, always below .500 in conference and never sniffs the big dance

No one is denying his hall of fame credentials, but he's been the definition of a puncher since he won 9 of 11 conference championships between 1992-2002. He's won 2 more titles in the following 19 seasons and 1 since he joined a high major conference.

I blame nicname and his wild ass posts for these things being conflated.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 05, 2021, 11:52:37 PM
I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?

One coach resurrected the program. One took what the other helped build drove it into the dirt.

There was not a single leftover in the program from Huggy/Frank when oscar went to an Elite 8 and won a conference championship.

Like it or not, that was oscar's program. And the currently dogshit program is oscar's as well, but to me, "resurrecting" a basketball program can be done quickly with roster turnover, and if K-State can get the right coach, he can take the current pieces and win quickly.

the problem is that he gets the roster turnover but then runs them off or, instead of developing them they plateau or get worse. He put together that good roster, built by him, one time.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 06, 2021, 12:06:17 PM
Oscar's failing is his ineptitude at maintaining a program. He's demonstrated that flaw here and at Illinois, but his current cratering makes his recruiting liabilities more obvious. Everyone saw this coming as far back as 2017, any you can go back on this board and find posters predicting it.
Unfortunately, the pattern continues. One good but hardly great recruiting year is followed by what's shaping up to be a meh class. He has shown no interest or ability to bring in fifth-year seniors or transfer to address immediate needs. His junior college recruits have been well below those of even Asbury or Wooly. He's kept players for multiple seasons who on first-sight clearly weren't D-1 quality and runs off talent who also on first glace aren't the Oscar type.
All this is to say, I don't expect him to be able to make of Pack, Bradford et al amptjer Brown, Wade and Stokes because I sincerely doubt he can keep key players in Manhattan or add piece pieces like Xavier or Cartier.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: schreds21 on February 06, 2021, 07:27:50 PM
I guess he recently retired from being the AD for Riverside City College.

(https://www.pe.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/wooldridge_dwb-16x9-1-1.jpg?w=620)
So he's available?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 07, 2021, 11:53:29 AM
Law of Polarity says oscar stays.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 07, 2021, 12:55:13 PM
"historic highs" lol. What was Oscar's highest final national ranking? 
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: nicname on February 07, 2021, 03:42:45 PM
"historic highs" lol. What was Oscar's highest final national ranking?

2012-13 - 12 AP, 20 Coaches
2017-18 - 19 Coaches
2018-19 - 18 AP, 19 Coaches

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 07, 2021, 04:02:13 PM
"historic highs" lol. What was Oscar's highest final national ranking?

Do people actually value final ranking? Wouldn’t we have a national championship banner if they did?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: memphis on February 07, 2021, 04:21:22 PM
Some info to chew on:

(https://i.imgur.com/m863hyl.png)

HODL
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 07, 2021, 11:20:01 PM
hey guys turns out weber sucks like we all knew all along
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 08, 2021, 11:03:46 PM
?s=21
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 'taterblast on February 09, 2021, 09:36:15 AM
i think if anything happens it will be a "he decided to retire" situation like snyder
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 09, 2021, 10:42:11 AM
i think if anything happens it will be a "he decided to retire" situation like snyder

That's the only option after Gene's weird media spree recently.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 'taterblast on February 09, 2021, 11:20:53 AM
kstateo: too rough ridin' polite to fire anyone
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on February 09, 2021, 11:21:08 AM
I think Gene is leaving the door open to crap-can him.  "I plan for him to be back and we'll evaluate after the season" gives him plenty of opportunity to change his mind after the season.

I still think KU needs to embarrass us worse to make it happen though.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: memphis on February 09, 2021, 12:20:24 PM
Isn't his contract kind of set up to fire him in the last year of it (2022)? Basically let him make a miracle this or next year, wait out some of the shortfalls in revenue then get your coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 09, 2021, 12:32:10 PM
Isn't his contract kind of set up to fire him in the last year of it (2022)? Basically let him make a miracle this or next year, wait out some of the shortfalls in revenue then get your coach.

It's set up for him to be fired by an Athletic Department that isn't poor AF, but yes, it gets better each year like other contracts.

Also, after next season I believe Brad's buyout drops to like 4 or 5 million (LOFL)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on February 09, 2021, 12:36:59 PM
I don't think the buyout is a real concern.  There is a cost associated with firing any coach and, with the exception of the first couple of years of a new contract, it's what a school can afford to pay.  I guess the variable in that is the unexpected revenue shortfalls from the pandemic.  Still, a new coach could bring a lot more excitement to next year's ticket sales.

Typically you wouldn't let a coach get into the last year of his deal because it's tough to recruit.  In our situation, we're entering into oscar's cyclical 2 year recruiting hiatus so maybe that's not a concern.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 'taterblast on February 09, 2021, 12:42:39 PM
i think the AD would make up for his buyout with increased tickets/donations that a new coach excitement would bring
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 09, 2021, 08:19:48 PM
kstateo: too rough ridin' polite to fire anyone

LHC Bill Snyder was clearly fired, the same will apply with oscar if he isn't the coach next year. The biggest difference is that the media will actually acknowledge that oscar was fired when they didn't work Bill because people outside of the program didn't know or care about the internal issues with the football program, all anyone knew was LHC Bill Snyder and 8 straight bowls.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Brock Landers on February 10, 2021, 10:01:17 AM
I dunno guys, maybe we need another deep dive into Jack Hartman's coaching stats to determine if oscar sucks or not.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 10, 2021, 10:05:10 AM
Yeah, guys. No one talk basketball or K-State basketball history so the boards can sit idle for days, please.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 10, 2021, 10:25:54 AM
Yeah, guys. No one talk basketball or K-State basketball history so the boards can sit idle for days, please.

I'm looking ahead, not backwards.  #FightFor15
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 10, 2021, 01:44:27 PM
Look at the replies to this tweet. WTF? What a world where _FAN and I seem like extremists for just acknowledging reality. Crazy how many extreme sunshine pumpers exist out there. I know I have mentioned this before but @kstateman is a plague, he's not only an extreme sunshine pumper, but he's very aggressive in his pumping.

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 10, 2021, 02:03:28 PM
Look at the replies to this tweet. WTF? What a world where _FAN and I seem like extremists for just acknowledging reality. Crazy how many extreme sunshine pumpers exist out there. I know I have mentioned this before but @kstateman is a plague, he's not only an extreme sunshine pumper, but he's very aggressive in his pumping.


I think most people who respond to tweets like that are going to skew toward sunshine pumping
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 10, 2021, 02:12:41 PM
Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?

Go read what MIR just posted.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: EMAWzifried on February 10, 2021, 03:33:18 PM
Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?

Go read what MIR just posted.

Trump and Oscar get an endless victim card with the same base.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kso_FWN on February 10, 2021, 03:35:01 PM
Look at the replies to this tweet. WTF? What a world where _FAN and I seem like extremists for just acknowledging reality. Crazy how many extreme sunshine pumpers exist out there. I know I have mentioned this before but @kstateman is a plague, he's not only an extreme sunshine pumper, but he's very aggressive in his pumping.


I think Rusty is right, tweets like that tend to get extreme responses on both sides, but probably more positive. I was encouraged that the offense was good, but at the end of the day it's the 11th straight loss. Only the 3rd time that has ever happened at K-State during a season.

And LOL at Gip with the call out.

?s=20
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 10, 2021, 03:35:41 PM
Look at the replies to this tweet. WTF? What a world where _FAN and I seem like extremists for just acknowledging reality. Crazy how many extreme sunshine pumpers exist out there. I know I have mentioned this before but @kstateman is a plague, he's not only an extreme sunshine pumper, but he's very aggressive in his pumping.


I think most people who respond to tweets like that are going to skew toward sunshine pumping

Oh for sure, but go back and look at the replies to the other game final tweets even the games we won. It's very clear that for an undefined percentage of the fan base the standard has been way lowered. People acting like we are Gallaudet playing Gonzaga, we used to beat these dudes like they stole something, SMDH.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 10, 2021, 03:38:00 PM
Look at the replies to this tweet. WTF? What a world where _FAN and I seem like extremists for just acknowledging reality. Crazy how many extreme sunshine pumpers exist out there. I know I have mentioned this before but @kstateman is a plague, he's not only an extreme sunshine pumper, but he's very aggressive in his pumping.


I think Rusty is right, tweets like that tend to get extreme responses on both sides, but probably more positive. I was encouraged that the offense was good, but at the end of the day it's the 11th straight loss. Only the 3rd time that has ever happened at K-State during a season.

And LOL at Gip with the call out.

?s=20

Yeah, that was absolutely a clown reply. I didn't love the tweet either, but Gip's reply was idiotic. Gip has really showed his ass the last few months on twitter and I would say he has been a disappointment, but I didn't expect much of him anyway.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on February 10, 2021, 03:40:36 PM
Look at the replies to this tweet. WTF? What a world where _FAN and I seem like extremists for just acknowledging reality. Crazy how many extreme sunshine pumpers exist out there. I know I have mentioned this before but @kstateman is a plague, he's not only an extreme sunshine pumper, but he's very aggressive in his pumping.


We were close at home against a team on a 3 game losing streak, what more do you want?  Sheesh.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 10, 2021, 03:55:53 PM
We're officially the one legged man in an ass kicking contest.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: michigancat on February 10, 2021, 04:14:54 PM
can anyone remember the weird christian basketball movie gip starred in?  (or appeared in)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 10, 2021, 06:05:01 PM
can anyone remember the weird christian basketball movie gip starred in?  (or appeared in)

What now???
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: GregKSU1027 on February 10, 2021, 06:08:21 PM
We're officially the one legged man in an ass kicking contest.
K-State can’t finish its dinner. The 10 games before was like trying to jump in a car to drive for 50 miles with 4 flat tires. We stink so hard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: mocat on February 10, 2021, 06:18:36 PM
can anyone remember the weird christian basketball movie gip starred in?  (or appeared in)

idk about christian but I still have this clip  bookmarked

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l6FFGB8ChFw/UOj1pHjuIyI/AAAAAAAABeQ/P3h1ZLxX5Bk/s355/GipShaneMuscle355.gif)
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: sys on February 10, 2021, 10:43:33 PM
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2021, 09:35:57 AM
lol, like I said
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2021, 09:38:19 AM
We've let oscar slide on this slapping the floor bs that he's making the team do now. Apparently this is something from trim's guy Gene Keady. oscar is the college basketball king of over coaching.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: mocat on February 11, 2021, 09:42:45 AM

gd it gip
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 11, 2021, 10:20:25 AM
We've let oscar slide on this slapping the floor bs that he's making the team do now. Apparently this is something from trim's guy Gene Keady. oscar is the college basketball king of over coaching.

I’ve seen some references to it from kurtz. Is it just now happening since the games have been back on espn+?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2021, 10:29:10 AM
We've let oscar slide on this slapping the floor bs that he's making the team do now. Apparently this is something from trim's guy Gene Keady. oscar is the college basketball king of over coaching.

I’ve seen some references to it from kurtz. Is it just now happening since the games have been back on espn+?

We've been on ESPN+ exclusively for almost the whole damn year. McGuirl has been doing it for about four or five games now, the rest of the team has made a show of it the last two, it looks so dumb.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 11, 2021, 10:37:09 AM
it looks so dumb.

I’m sure it does. I looked yesterday and I think at least the potential record-breaking game will be on tv.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: pissclams on February 11, 2021, 10:39:04 AM
we're basically sister school duke at this point so might as well
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2021, 11:10:30 AM
we're basically sister school duke at this point so might as well

They could actually guard people though. Texas has scored 80 or more four times, once against UT-Rio Grande Valley, once against KU, and twice against us. We're slapping the floor then giving up layups in half court sets.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: kstate4life on February 11, 2021, 11:18:37 AM
we're basically sister school duke at this point so might as well

They could actually guard people though. Texas has scored 80 or more four times, once against UT-Rio Grande Valley, once against KU, and twice against us. We're slapping the floor then giving up layups in half court sets.

It's such a rough ridin' joke.  Last straw to try and get them motivated to play defense, and still can't.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Kid In the Hall on February 11, 2021, 12:34:48 PM
Odds of one of our players accidentally suffering a foot injury with a misplaced slap?
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on February 11, 2021, 01:05:40 PM
Odds of one of our players accidentally suffering a foot injury with a misplaced slap?

I'm assuming it's already happened.   You can't tell me Kasubke wasn't a floor slapper from day 1.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Trim on February 11, 2021, 08:08:08 PM
:lol:

Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 11, 2021, 09:01:43 PM
No stance no chance baby
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 'taterblast on February 11, 2021, 09:23:40 PM
?s=20
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: rob mccolley on February 11, 2021, 10:25:04 PM
Look at the replies to this tweet. WTF? What a world where _FAN and I seem like extremists for just acknowledging reality.
I'm not convinced that Brooth doesn't have a paid social media manipulator.

His lady pastor was a vocal WFF on various message boards, and treated naysayers very nearly unChristianly. As far as I know, she did it for free. But having a Final Four coach in your congregation was probably good for attendance=offerings.

It wouldn't take more than one guy to create and maintain hundreds of social media accounts. You'd need an IP spoofer, but not much else.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 12, 2021, 09:41:37 AM
Looking at KSO today, and it appears there are many dipshits that think we cannot afford to remove oscar and bring someone else in.

Such a losery group that is giving Gene a pass to do nothing.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: wetwillie on February 12, 2021, 09:49:23 AM
Relax, Gene is going to retire him.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: ChiComCat on February 12, 2021, 09:57:49 AM
We should try to have the B12 schedule KU on the road for the last game of the year.  Give them a great chance to pants us and get people convinced to fire the coach.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: Brock Landers on February 12, 2021, 10:02:23 AM
A home pants'ing is far more effective IMO.
Title: Re: firebrucewebernow.com
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 12, 2021, 10:06:18 AM
The funniest thing about oscar is he's been far more competitive vs KU vs any coach that's been alive in my existence at K-State. Make it Baylor and you boys can get your dream send off.
Title: Re: firebrucew