Author Topic: politics of football (ban that crap)  (Read 28409 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #225 on: January 06, 2023, 10:46:24 AM »
Also one other thing about rugby, football, and collisions, I'm fairly certain that research shows most injuries occur at the line of scrimmage. The wide receiver or running back getting blown up is certainly eye catching but that happens what maybe 3-4 times a game, at the very most?

Offline michigancat

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #226 on: January 06, 2023, 10:47:51 AM »
Eliminating the kickoff would be a step in the right direction

I have been a fairly big fan of Schiano's proposal.

I like that it makes it possible to get the ball back after scoring, when recent rules have made onside kicks incredibly difficult to recover. Maybe it makes it too easy, though.

I really question whether punts are safer than kicks, though. I don't have any injury data to look at, but kick protection seems a lot more straightforward than a punt, where you have to line up and watch for a fake, then sprint back alongside the guy you are going to try to block. You see punt returners get absolutely lit up if they make a poor decision to not fair catch when they should.

My guess on why punts may be safer is that the ball carrier is rarely moving forward at full speed. You eliminate half of the momentum and force you have on a lot of kickoff collisions even when the returner gets lit up.

Yeah, this is right but it's important to remember, as someone who's football career partially ended because of this, most kickoff injuries aren't to the returner. Every player but the kicker in most circumstances are subject to on of those full speed collisions.
On punts you start blocking at the line of scrimmage rather than downfield with a head of steam

Offline SleepFighter

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #227 on: January 06, 2023, 10:57:35 AM »
Also one other thing about rugby, football, and collisions, I'm fairly certain that research shows most injuries occur at the line of scrimmage. The wide receiver or running back getting blown up is certainly eye catching but that happens what maybe 3-4 times a game, at the very most?

We may be thinking of different sets of statistics, but certainly the most sub-concussive head impacts (the main ingredient to CTE) occur on the line. I have never seen anything indicating that the majority of injuries total occur there, but it wouldn't surprise me, if for no other reason than that is where the greatest concentration of players are at any given time.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #228 on: January 06, 2023, 12:09:05 PM »
Well if you’re counting all injuries then I have no doubt they occur to linemen. Those guy’s fingers, ankles, joints, etc. are in danger every single play.

Offline cfbandyman

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #229 on: January 06, 2023, 12:15:17 PM »
Eliminating the kickoff would be a step in the right direction

I have been a fairly big fan of Schiano's proposal.

I like that it makes it possible to get the ball back after scoring, when recent rules have made onside kicks incredibly difficult to recover. Maybe it makes it too easy, though.

I really question whether punts are safer than kicks, though. I don't have any injury data to look at, but kick protection seems a lot more straightforward than a punt, where you have to line up and watch for a fake, then sprint back alongside the guy you are going to try to block. You see punt returners get absolutely lit up if they make a poor decision to not fair catch when they should.

The easy remedy then to do back it up more. I think 4th and 15 is a pretty big gamble to do if you start at like the 20. I also think of you make it where regardless of you gain 1 yard or 14 I'd you fail the defending team gets it at like the 20 or 25 or something, really incentivize to the team going for you it's more an act of surprise/desperation, not something you can gunsling each time (though there were always be that high school team that'll always go for it)
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Offline Kid In the Hall

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #230 on: January 06, 2023, 12:18:45 PM »
Not saying that rugby is anywhere near as dangerous as football, but those scrums are pretty nasty. My brother and cousin played club rugby in college - one broke his arm in a scrum and one broke his leg in a scrum.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #231 on: January 06, 2023, 12:21:20 PM »
I think most people are willing to live with injuries that aren't brain or heart related.

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #232 on: January 06, 2023, 12:23:56 PM »
Eliminating the kickoff would be a step in the right direction

I have been a fairly big fan of Schiano's proposal.

I like that it makes it possible to get the ball back after scoring, when recent rules have made onside kicks incredibly difficult to recover. Maybe it makes it too easy, though.

I really question whether punts are safer than kicks, though. I don't have any injury data to look at, but kick protection seems a lot more straightforward than a punt, where you have to line up and watch for a fake, then sprint back alongside the guy you are going to try to block. You see punt returners get absolutely lit up if they make a poor decision to not fair catch when they should.

The easy remedy then to do back it up more. I think 4th and 15 is a pretty big gamble to do if you start at like the 20. I also think of you make it where regardless of you gain 1 yard or 14 I'd you fail the defending team gets it at like the 20 or 25 or something, really incentivize to the team going for you it's more an act of surprise/desperation, not something you can gunsling each time (though there were always be that high school team that'll always go for it)

I think the 4th & 15 gives more power to (and scrutiny of) the officials on a high-stakes play.  Given the quality and consistency of officiating, I don't love that aspect of it.  A penalty is likely the same as a turnover for the defending team whereas an onside doesn't typically have a possession-deciding penalty on the receiving team. 

Offline Woogy

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #233 on: January 06, 2023, 01:15:14 PM »
I think one thing the N(ew)XFL got really right was kickoffs: Kick from the 30, return team on the 35, nobody moves but the kicker until the ball is fielded.  Punts and PATs a little less so - should keep the kicking option in PATs.

Perhaps a way to keep a traditional kicking PAT would be to award an additional point or two on top of the PAT if the *kickoff* goes through the uprights.  Would certainly reduce returns and increase touchbacks.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2023, 02:57:34 PM by Woogy »

Offline Kid In the Hall

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #234 on: January 06, 2023, 02:18:12 PM »
Another interesting thing - and maybe this exists - would be if there's any kind of comparative data between the NFL and the CFL. Given the differences (wider/longer field in the CFL, more pre-snap motion in the CFL, 3 downs vs. 4 downs, etc.), it would be interesting to see if per capita injuries to different areas (head, body, etc.) are different.

It's still hard to believe the CFL has the goalpost on the front end zone line - that's got to result in unnecessary injuries. 


Offline Spracne

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #236 on: January 06, 2023, 03:08:18 PM »
I saw Kansas in the top 10, so I figured I'd be able to find K-State, but I can't? Am I reading it wrong?

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #237 on: January 06, 2023, 03:25:18 PM »
I saw Kansas in the top 10, so I figured I'd be able to find K-State, but I can't? Am I reading it wrong?


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Offline catastrophe

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #239 on: January 06, 2023, 03:32:39 PM »
I saw Kansas in the top 10, so I figured I'd be able to find K-State, but I can't? Am I reading it wrong?
I’d be more concerned with the fact that KU somehow managed to pull the ratings for the NCAA championship lower than a semifinal game featuring teams that meet every single year.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #240 on: January 06, 2023, 03:40:40 PM »
I saw Kansas in the top 10, so I figured I'd be able to find K-State, but I can't? Am I reading it wrong?
I’d be more concerned with the fact that KU somehow managed to pull the ratings for the NCAA championship lower than a semifinal game featuring teams that meet every single year.

A final four game outrating the national championship game has got to be a first.

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #242 on: January 11, 2023, 09:38:49 AM »

Offline MakeItRain

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Offline Katpappy

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Offline Katpappy

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #245 on: January 12, 2023, 10:58:20 AM »
Also, hope Russ recovers.  Best wishes to a KSU Cat. :beersmiley:
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #246 on: January 23, 2023, 07:48:35 PM »
It would be very easy to go to rugby type helmets, but Americans love violence.

Welp, never mind. I guess we're just morons
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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #247 on: February 12, 2023, 10:19:12 PM »
Its fans’ love/use of fireworks is another reason to ban this crap.

Offline wiley

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Re: politics of football (ban that crap)
« Reply #248 on: February 12, 2023, 10:24:11 PM »
Its fans’ love/use of fireworks is another reason to ban this crap.
I can get behind this reasoning


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