Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....

[MakeItRain]

I am confident we would want Iowa MIR

In lieu of FSU, GT, Miami, or Clemson?

[steve dave]

I am confident we would want Iowa MIR

In lieu of FSU, GT, Miami, or Clemson?

yes

[MakeItRain]

Louisville is a commuter school.  DO NOT WANT.

yeah. louuisville is one small step about cinicinatti. they're both disgusting.

Both add more televisions than Clemson.

[sonofdaxjones]

Clemson itself is in a very nice area and the campus goes right up the shores of Lake Hartwell which is a beautiful lake, unlike those mudholes in Kansas.

Columbia and Myrtle Beach proper (Little River, Cherry Beach, Pawley's Island and Georgetown are not)  are $hitty. . . Charleston/Beaufort (throw in Hilton Head) and Greenville are very nice areas overall, downtown Charleston is mega elite. 

Clemson has more national play in its football than Louisville does, but I agree, that overall Louisville is sexier for many reasons. 

[Trim]

Louisville is a commuter school.  DO NOT WANT.

yeah. louuisville is one small step about cinicinatti. they're both disgusting.

Both add more televisions than Clemson.

garbage city commuter school garbage

[sonofdaxjones]

Louisville is a commuter school.  DO NOT WANT.

yeah. louuisville is one small step about cinicinatti. they're both disgusting.

Both add more televisions than Clemson.

Oh Bull$hit.   Nearly half the state of nearly 5 million people are interested in Clemson, you've got Atlanta and Charlotte just down the road from Clemson that is full of Clemson alums.    Nobody in Ohio gives a f_ck about Cincinnati football, unless they're a student or an alumnus, and even that's debatable.   Stick to Louisville and your point might almost be valid.

[MakeItRain]

741 pages and people still don't understand that the ONLY thing you should consider when adding teams to a conference is how much they increase the value of your television deal.  If the SEC gave a damn about football success they wouldn't have added A&M and Mizzou instead of WVU.  They added Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Kansas City, and St. Louis instead of Charleston, WV and 1/5 of Pittsburgh.

[kitten_mittons]

Let's just take UF and FSU.

I would be willing to substitute tOSU for FSU in this scenario.  WVU would have less travel time.

I don't know, isn't Ohio (the state as a whole) really poor and stuff?  Are there nice places for visiting fans to stay?  Maybe trade FSU for USC.

[MakeItRain]

Louisville is a commuter school.  DO NOT WANT.

yeah. louuisville is one small step about cinicinatti. they're both disgusting.

Both add more televisions than Clemson.

Oh Bull$hit.   Nearly half the state of nearly 5 million people are interested in Clemson, you've got Atlanta and Charlotte just down the road from Clemson that is full of Clemson alums.    Nobody in Ohio gives a f_ck about Cincinnati football, unless they're a student or an alumnus, and even that's debatable.   Stick to Louisville and your point might almost be valid.

Can you read?  I'm simply referring to market size and televisions.  You guys are taking one argument and turning it into something completely different, I didn't say a damn thing about the percentage of undergrads who are locals or some imaginary rubric about how much people care.  If Clemson competes for a national championship their television numbers don't change.  When Rutgers had their two year run, they killed it in the Northeast.

Please don't counter again with how many fans Clemson has or how many old people take classes at Cincinnati, I am not arguing otherwise and has nothing to do with what I said.

[sonofdaxjones]

In terms of the value of the Television deal, than you look at Clemson long before you look at Cinncy.   As I said, nobody in Ohio cares about Cinncy outside of their immediate alumnus fanbase.   

Clemson gets major play in Charlotte (2.6 million people) and had a significant degree of visibility in Atlanta due to proximity, and you've got about 45 to 50% of a state of  4.6 million that are significantly interested in Clemson and another significant portion will pay attention  hoping that Clemson losses.

Absolutely no contest between Cinncy and Clemson in that perspective and it would be a damn good debate even with Louisville.

The population of South Carolina has nearly doubled in the last 25 years, and there are no major league professional sports teams.   They're all about college sports.

Cinncy dreams about being Rutgers.  Cinncy can't even move the needle in their own effing state. 

[steve dave]

I think there is more to consider than how much a team would increase a tv deal

[KITNfury]

741 pages and people still don't understand that the ONLY thing you should consider when adding teams to a conference is how much they increase the value of your television deal.  If the SEC gave a damn about football success they wouldn't have added A&M and Mizzou instead of WVU.  They added Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Kansas City, and St. Louis instead of Charleston, WV and 1/5 of Pittsburgh.

Can't remember if you were advocating Louisville or not, but if you were, you're making a counterpoint to adding them. UL adds like 50% of their own city, some scraps of the remaining state, and virtually nobody else. If FSU is the only ACC school that wants to come, then bell yeah, add UL too, they simply aren't the top choice. crap, I'd take Cinci with FSU if that meant getting FSU. 

[Houstoncat93]

I think there is more to consider than how much a team would increase a tv deal

Not really.  This is driven by dollars.  All the other stuff you hear about academics, travel etc is smoke and mirrors.

[MakeItRain]

741 pages and people still don't understand that the ONLY thing you should consider when adding teams to a conference is how much they increase the value of your television deal.  If the SEC gave a damn about football success they wouldn't have added A&M and Mizzou instead of WVU.  They added Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Kansas City, and St. Louis instead of Charleston, WV and 1/5 of Pittsburgh.

Can't remember if you were advocating Louisville or not, but if you were, you're making a counterpoint to adding them. UL adds like 50% of their own city, some scraps of the remaining state, and virtually nobody else. If FSU is the only ACC school that wants to come, then bell yeah, add UL too, they simply aren't the top choice. crap, I'd take Cinci with FSU if that meant getting FSU.

I wasn't really advocating anyone, just posting about Louisville/Cincinnati/Clemson.  I don't think that the value of those three right now to a television contract is much different.  Clemson has a very strong fan base with virtually no televisions and corporate advertising potential.  Cincinnati has a ton of televisions and potential corporate cash, but no fan base to speak of.  Louisville has more TVs than Clemson and a stronger fan base than Cincinnati.

You all need to remember that Cincinnati and Louisville have recently been average programs in a substandard conference, but both have been slowly gaining higher profiles through the years.  They both saw surges when they joined the Big East and logic would tell you that would happen again when they joined the Big 12.  Easier to draw fans to your stadium to see UT and OU as opposed to Big East powerhouses, WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse.  If Cincinnati and/or Louisville entered the national championship picture in the Big 12 their fan bases would explode.  Clemson just doesn't have that growth potential, they already have a strong, dedicated fan base and their television numbers in the south are as strong as they're going to be.

[Trim]

Take all of them and put them in a Big 12 D-league with relegation rules or something.

[sonofdaxjones]

Louisville has potential, they've carved out a strong niche in Kentucky, Southern Ohio.   

Cinncy will always be what it is, a school that has a "home game" with Ohio State, in its own town, and 80% of the seats are filled with Ohio State fans.  There's a reason why Ohio Stadium seats 110,000, and the rest of the D1 stadiums in Ohio seat 30K.    In college athletics you can draw a direct correlation between butts in the seats and total fanbase/interested fans (T-Shirt fans). 

Clemson has presence in 2 of the largest Metro Areas in the U.S.  Resides in one of the fastest growing areas in the United States and controls a substantial portion of the college sports fans in a college sports hotbed and has no direct major league sports competition.

The needle moves for college athletics in the Southeastern U.S. like no other region in the country.

[MakeItRain]

Louisville has potential, they've carved out a strong niche in Kentucky, Southern Ohio.   

Cinncy will always be what it is, a school that has a "home game" with Ohio State, in its own town, and 80% of the seats are filled with Ohio State fans.  There's a reason why Ohio Stadium seats 110,000, and the rest of the D1 stadiums in Ohio seat 30K.    In college athletics you can draw a direct correlation between butts in the seats and total fanbase/interested fans (T-Shirt fans). 

Clemson has presence in 2 of the largest Metro Areas in the U.S.  Resides in one of the fastest growing areas in the United States and controls a substantial portion of the college sports fans in a college sports hotbed and has no direct major league sports competition.

The needle moves for college athletics in the Southeastern U.S. like no other region in the country.

Overall I don't have a problem with this, two things though.  You're discounting the ability for Cincinnati to attract large numbers of tshirt fans by being a good team in a top 3 conference.  Also you need to clean up the Clemson pro sports thing.  First of all I don't think the presence of pro sports matter.  Secondly you alluded to  Clemson's presence in Atlanta and Charlotte and then said they have no competing pro sports.  I think we're pretty close to agreeing.  I acknowledge that if offered today Clemson would have more value, I just think the difference is minuscule and the other two have higher potential.

[Dr Rick Daris]

741 pages and people still don't understand that the ONLY thing you should consider when adding teams to a conference is how much they increase the value of your television deal.  If the SEC gave a damn about football success they wouldn't have added A&M and Mizzou instead of WVU.  They added Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Kansas City, and St. Louis instead of Charleston, WV and 1/5 of Pittsburgh.

Can't remember if you were advocating Louisville or not, but if you were, you're making a counterpoint to adding them. UL adds like 50% of their own city, some scraps of the remaining state, and virtually nobody else. If FSU is the only ACC school that wants to come, then bell yeah, add UL too, they simply aren't the top choice. crap, I'd take Cinci with FSU if that meant getting FSU.

I wasn't really advocating anyone, just posting about Louisville/Cincinnati/Clemson.  I don't think that the value of those three right now to a television contract is much different.  Clemson has a very strong fan base with virtually no televisions and corporate advertising potential.  Cincinnati has a ton of televisions and potential corporate cash, but no fan base to speak of.  Louisville has more TVs than Clemson and a stronger fan base than Cincinnati.

You all need to remember that Cincinnati and Louisville have recently been average programs in a substandard conference, but both have been slowly gaining higher profiles through the years.  They both saw surges when they joined the Big East and logic would tell you that would happen again when they joined the Big 12.  Easier to draw fans to your stadium to see UT and OU as opposed to Big East powerhouses, WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse.  If Cincinnati and/or Louisville entered the national championship picture in the Big 12 their fan bases would explode.  Clemson just doesn't have that growth potential, they already have a strong, dedicated fan base and their television numbers in the south are as strong as they're going to be.

well if this is your argument, you should be arguing for adding south and central florida above all three of the above.

[Skipper44]

Clemson is already has what Louisville and Cincy want when they grow up, a 80,000 seat stadium with fans that fill it and decades long tradition of playing in the highest level of cfb. 

Louisville has done a great job and come close to maximizing what they have, one of the largest DMAs without a pro team, how much growth is left?  Cincy has a ton of growing room but in a town with 2 pro teams and a role as little bro to tOSU it will always be an uphill battle.

The U may never regain what it had in 80s and 90s but SFla will always have players and Shalalalala won't be school president forever.

[pissclams]

it's funny to listen to k-state fans discussing the merits of schools joining a conference that we ourselves sit near the bottom of

[Skipper44]

it's funny to listen to k-state fans discussing the merits of schools joining a conference that we ourselves sit near the bottom of

It is glorious to do it in the same thread where I felt we were headed on downward sprial and wasn't sure where the bottom was. 

[CNS]

We should just take whoevs ESPN tells us to   

[MakeItRain]

741 pages and people still don't understand that the ONLY thing you should consider when adding teams to a conference is how much they increase the value of your television deal.  If the SEC gave a damn about football success they wouldn't have added A&M and Mizzou instead of WVU.  They added Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Kansas City, and St. Louis instead of Charleston, WV and 1/5 of Pittsburgh.

Can't remember if you were advocating Louisville or not, but if you were, you're making a counterpoint to adding them. UL adds like 50% of their own city, some scraps of the remaining state, and virtually nobody else. If FSU is the only ACC school that wants to come, then bell yeah, add UL too, they simply aren't the top choice. crap, I'd take Cinci with FSU if that meant getting FSU.

I wasn't really advocating anyone, just posting about Louisville/Cincinnati/Clemson.  I don't think that the value of those three right now to a television contract is much different.  Clemson has a very strong fan base with virtually no televisions and corporate advertising potential.  Cincinnati has a ton of televisions and potential corporate cash, but no fan base to speak of.  Louisville has more TVs than Clemson and a stronger fan base than Cincinnati.

You all need to remember that Cincinnati and Louisville have recently been average programs in a substandard conference, but both have been slowly gaining higher profiles through the years.  They both saw surges when they joined the Big East and logic would tell you that would happen again when they joined the Big 12.  Easier to draw fans to your stadium to see UT and OU as opposed to Big East powerhouses, WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse.  If Cincinnati and/or Louisville entered the national championship picture in the Big 12 their fan bases would explode.  Clemson just doesn't have that growth potential, they already have a strong, dedicated fan base and their television numbers in the south are as strong as they're going to be.

well if this is your argument, you should be arguing for adding south and central florida above all three of the above.

Pretty similar but I don't think they have the growth potential, even in Miami's heyday the didn't constantly fill up the OB.  Like nearly everything else, Florida specifically Florida south of of I-4 is completely unique.  I just watched the Florida Panthers last night host a game 7 to a 3/4 full arena.

[MadCat]

it's funny to listen to k-state fans discussing the merits of schools joining a conference that we ourselves sit near the bottom of

Almost feel like a Wazzou fan. 

[MakeItRain]

it's funny to listen to k-state fans discussing the merits of schools joining a conference that we ourselves sit near the bottom of

I was talking to my Nigerian friend yesterday about how K-State fans really shouldn't discuss the value of other programs because literally none of us are self-aware so our opinions on the matter are completely tainted.

Great minds, clams, great minds.