Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 4892680 times)

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Offline WillieWatanabe

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7775 on: August 13, 2011, 01:09:46 PM »
seems like a ton of crap could go down here...but i'm guessing only 10% of it will happen. KSU will be fine in the end, imho.
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Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7776 on: August 13, 2011, 01:10:00 PM »
Clay Travis makes words: bitURL.net/by8d

Quote from: Clay Travis

FSU AND CLEMSON HAVE NO SHOT AT THE SEC


This morrning ESPN's Doug Gottlieb reported that Texas A&M to the SEC was official and that Florida State, Clemson, and Missouri were likely to be three additional members of the conference. I believe Texas A&M has the votes to join the conference. But I maintain my position from yesterday --I'm told the SEC will not expand in any markets where there are already teams present. That would mean that Florida State and Clemson will not be added to the SEC. Why? Multiple sources have told me that Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina have a Survivor-style pact that all three will oppose the addition of any teams within their own state. The reason? All three schools, presently holding exclusive rights to their entire states -- believe that their competitive position would be weakened by the addition of second teams in their state.

I've also been told that Mike Slive, who always governs with near unanimity from his conference presidents, will not ram through an expansion vote if more than one school opposes the addition. So I do not believe ESPN's report that Clemson and FSU are likely to join the SEC. At least not so long as this Survivor-style pact remains extant. And I've heard nothing to suggest these schools are wavering in this regard.

If anything, I think the floating of Clemson and FSU might well be a trial balloon intentionally sent up to distract attention from another SEC target. But, and this is key, I'm not sure that the SEC has done the requisite due diligence on other schools to know for certain what the contracts for ACC schools say. To reiterate what I said Friday, I believe that the SEC would look to expand to Virginia and North Carolina if it is going to extend offers to ACC schools. Like I've said all along, I believe the SEC wants into Texas bad enough that it would be willing to sit at 13 and wait for the college football landscape to change around it rather than moving too quickly and making decisions that are not in the best interests of the conference long term.

As I told y'all Friday, Texas A&M reached out to the SEC this time around, not the SEC reaching out to A&M. So I'm not sure how much due diligence the SEC has been able to do for outside schools. Let's dive in numbers-wise again and look at where we are.

1. Texas A&M has the votes.
The only thing that could derail A&M to the SEC is -- and this is why I question Gottlieb's report -- fear from the SEC schools that adding A&M would mean that a second school could be added to Florida, Georgia, or South Carolina.

Could this be a leak designed to make the SEC presidents of those schools think twice about voting for A&M? Definitely. In fact, I think that's exactly what this story is, a deliberate plant designed to make it less likely that the SEC votes to add anyone.

2. Remember you can't trust anyone.
I told y'all Friday to think about conference expansion like the NFL Draft, everyone has an agenda. Could I be wrong? Of course. Could every single writer talking to sources anywhere be wrong? Of course. The reality is this: There are so many vested interests at stake right now that everyone is trying to use the media to advance its interests.

Remember the Pac 16 story ESPN "broke"? How'd that end up turning out?

Texas played the media like a fiddle and ended up getting wealthy beyond measure. Could Texas and the Big 12 be behind the rumor that FSU and Clemson are going to join the SEC? It wouldn't surprise me at all.

3. What happens to A&M if the SEC voted not to accept its application to join the league?
It would be the greatest embarrassment in Aggie history, right? How does A&M return to the Big 12 after attempting to join another conference? How much ridicule would it face? Worst of all, what other options would A&M have for the foreseeable future to join another conference?
A&M would become the most humiliated team in conference expansion history, the perpetual cautionary tale of realignment for all time.

That's why I think these rumors about FSU and Clemson are being cleverly leaked by someone to undercut A&M's bid for SEC membership. A&M has the votes right now. But could that change if SEC presidents start worrying about the additional teams that might follow A&M?
Yep.

4. The SEC is worried about being sued for tortious interference.
That's why it's significant that A&M came to the SEC first. The league isn't liable for any Big 12 lawsuit if A&M comes to it first. Now, A&M will probably be sued over its exit fee, but the SEC isn't buying a lawsuit assuming it operated in an above board fashion.
In reviewing A&M's contract the SEC would have become privy to all the details of the Big 12's newest contract arrangements. So, and this is purely speculation on my part, if the SEC really wanted to add a 14th member right now, it would know exactly what the pricetag of that 14th member would be if that team came from the Big 12.

That's why I've always thought the SEC would add more than one team from the Big 12 or stick at 13 right now.

Missouri says it isn't talking to the SEC. Again, just because Missouri says that publicly doesn't mean it is being honest. But I'll go back to what I've previously told y'all, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are out as a package deal. That means the only truly viable teams in the Big 12 are Texas Tech and Missouri.

Texas Tech has been pretty damn quiet throughout this whole process hasn't it?

5. What do the ACC contracts say?
Again, the ACC schools would have had to approach the SEC about membership. I believe such approaches happen fairly regularly. That is, I believe the SEC has been approached multiple times by ACC schools on an informal basis to discuss conference affiliation. I also believe the SEC has had mock votes to assess where different teams stand in the event conference expansion took place. So Slive has a working knowledge of what the votes look like and how teams rank on the pecking order.

But have those talks ever progressed to the point where review of ACC contracts has taken place? I have no idea.

I know the SEC would want to do its due diligence before extending offers. Are they far enough along in this process to invite a team from Virginia or a team from North Carolina this weekend? I doubt it, but who knows?

6. Could the SEC's leverage with the ACC teams in North Carolina and Virginia improve by waiting?
Let me just say this -- and I'll expand upon it next week -- the ACC is not as stable as some of y'all think.

And it may not be the SEC that's causing all the instability.

7. SEC Commissioner Mike Slive likes to govern via unanimity
I'm told that if more than one school votes against expansion, it's unlikely that Slive will push through the vote. If three schools -- the Florida, South Carolina, and Georgia voting bloc -- stay true to one another then there is no way a team is being admitted with that many votes allied against it. So FSU and Clemson are dead. (Georgia Tech as well in case y'all care).
Having said that, here's one caveat, if South Carolina and Georgia turned on Florida and voted for FSU's inclusion, could the SEC bring in FSU with an 11-1 vote in favor? Perhaps, but it would create a hell of a mess.

I believe the bloc will stay together and there remains no way that a team from the existing SEC footprint gets an invite to the league.

So bringing it all back to the top, I believe that the suggestion that Clemson and FSU are in line to receive SEC invites is an attempt to derail A&M to the SEC. Based on what I'm told FSU and Clemson are not in play for the SEC.

I bolded the bit about Virginia and North Carolina schools possibly being invited because that could be a either a good or catastrophic thing for us in case a 64 team Super BCS forms. If the SEC takes A&M, Va Tech, and some combination of UNC/NCSU/Duke (depending on their priorities), that kneecaps the ACC and almost guarantees mass chaos in the Big East as well. This could trigger seismic re-adjustments of conferences in the college football landscape, and in that case, the Vanderbilts and Wake Forests of the world are not in a good position. That's good for us. If the conference/university leaders say "eff it" and start from scratch in creating 4 conferences of 16 teams, we would be in a decent position to get that last helicopter out of Saigon. However, the other side of the coin is this:

If the ACC and Big East tried some ridiculous merger, we'd be left with that, the big 10, the Pac 12, and the SEC. The big 10 would probably pick off some combination of Pitt, ND 'Cuse, Maryland, Rutgers, Missouri, and maybe KU. In that case, it's incredibly hard to predict how the ACC/Big East merger would shake out, but we would likely be completely mumped. Our only chance would be to go with KU and possibly Missouri to the unwieldy monster that would be a Big East/ACC merger. Otherwise the geography just doesn't make a case for us, everything would be focused on the coasts and the upper midwest; the plains states the Kansas schools and Iowa State would be left to fend for themselves.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 02:02:18 PM by 42 »

Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7777 on: August 13, 2011, 01:12:57 PM »
seems like a ton of crap could go down here...but i'm guessing only 10% of it will happen. KSU will be fine in the end, imho.

There are certainly multiple instances where the media (ESPN) and others have more or less made it known through backchannels that they have a vested interest in keeping a Super-BCS from happening. The next few years are going to be a massive test of ESPN's power over college football.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7778 on: August 13, 2011, 01:25:05 PM »
Quote
That's why I think these rumors about FSU and Clemson are being cleverly leaked by someone to undercut A&M's bid for SEC membership.

 :sdeek:


Offline Trim

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7779 on: August 13, 2011, 01:28:11 PM »
Seems dumb that SEC schools would care about an intrastate school joining?  Do they think random locals have a favorite ACC team and a favorite SEC team?

Also, lol at threats of interference with contract suits, HAHAHAHA.

Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7780 on: August 13, 2011, 01:29:55 PM »
Seems dumb that SEC schools would care about an intrastate school joining?  

They already have those markets on lockdown, the SEC doesn't need to expand unless they're getting new markets. See: us taking Houston when we already have Texas.

Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7781 on: August 13, 2011, 01:31:27 PM »
Plus, the SEC is much like the state of Texas when it comes to freezing out your rivals that are in a lower position than you. You don't let your perceived lessers have equal status with you unless it's necessary for survival. The SEC doesn't need FSU or Clemson to roll in money.

Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7782 on: August 13, 2011, 01:36:28 PM »
 :lol:

Quote from:  dennis dodd's twitter
If it wasn't before, folks, it is officially ON. RT @catorano: @ChuckCarltonDMN @dennisdoddcbs soonerscoop reporting Texas has hired a lobbyist to keep A&M from going to SEC.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7783 on: August 13, 2011, 01:41:24 PM »
The main reason I want aTm to stay now is not for our survival, but because it will be great to mock them endlessly if it doesn't work out for them.

Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7784 on: August 13, 2011, 01:41:35 PM »
:lol:

Quote from:  dennis dodd's twitter
If it wasn't before, folks, it is officially ON. RT @catorano: @ChuckCarltonDMN @dennisdoddcbs soonerscoop reporting Texas has hired a lobbyist to keep A&M from going to SEC.

Since football is starting, I really wish they would just let it happen and this would all end.  shazbot! them for not doing this during the summer when nothing else was going on.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7785 on: August 13, 2011, 01:43:07 PM »
:lol:

Quote from:  dennis dodd's twitter
If it wasn't before, folks, it is officially ON. RT @catorano: @ChuckCarltonDMN @dennisdoddcbs soonerscoop reporting Texas has hired a lobbyist to keep A&M from going to SEC.

That's just a lie. UT has all pull they need, along with plenty of lobbyists.  They don't need to hire a guy to deal with ATM.  Dodds being played by an Aggie source.

Offline sys

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7786 on: August 13, 2011, 01:56:26 PM »
tech going with a&m is infinitely more likely than missouri.  and tech isn't likely.


there might be a 1% chance that the big 10 would expand to 16 without nd being one of the schools, but the other 4 schools would have to be very big time.

neither the sec or the big 10 is going to 16 just to get there, the schools have to bring value.
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Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7787 on: August 13, 2011, 02:05:29 PM »
Sounds like Florida is getting screwed.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7788 on: August 13, 2011, 02:06:39 PM »
http://www.aggienetwork.com/Posts/ViewPost.aspx?postId=TzRfJ65X%2bGo%3d

i'll summarize: the texas legislators are going to block us from leaving.

Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7789 on: August 13, 2011, 02:14:26 PM »
:lol:

Quote from:  dennis dodd's twitter
If it wasn't before, folks, it is officially ON. RT @catorano: @ChuckCarltonDMN @dennisdoddcbs soonerscoop reporting Texas has hired a lobbyist to keep A&M from going to SEC.

That's just a lie. UT has all pull they need, along with plenty of lobbyists.  They don't need to hire a guy to deal with ATM.  Dodds being played by an Aggie source.

The latest rumor is that the lobbyist was actually hired by Baylor, not UT.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7790 on: August 13, 2011, 02:21:09 PM »
http://www.aggienetwork.com/Posts/ViewPost.aspx?postId=TzRfJ65X%2bGo%3d

i'll summarize: the texas legislators are going to block us from leaving.

SEC never wanted them.  This is an excuse.

Offline nicname

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7791 on: August 13, 2011, 02:25:12 PM »
UT guy (maybe Deloss): All right, we have a problem here.  Aggie wants to leave to join the other rednecks in the SEC.

Mr. BU: Wha-what are you gonna do about that sir?

UT: I'm not going to do anything.  What you're going to do is get the legislature to wrangle Aggie in and keep them on daddies leash.

BU: But, I don't...

UT: Look, you still want to eat at the big table don't you?  Just do as your told and everything will be ok.

BU: yes, massa
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Offline Trim

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7792 on: August 13, 2011, 02:26:58 PM »
2 words: CE.

Offline HeinBallz

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7793 on: August 13, 2011, 02:41:00 PM »
Friends,

I have confirmed that the phone lines at Texas State are open and we they are waiting for a Big 12 invite :thumbs:
Oh man, remember when this was your shtick; back before you found EMAW  :lol:

to be honest i'm shocked that anyone remembered that

I just realized who you were.
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Offline EMAWmeister

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7794 on: August 13, 2011, 02:46:40 PM »
Quote
No, there are not 64 schools that are a better candidate.  Never said that.  I would place us in the 45-50 range.  The problem is that a lot of those schools in the range from 45-64 are already in one of the stable conferences.  Do I think that KU is more appealing than Oregon St., Washington St., Mississippi St., Ole Miss, Arkansas, Kentucky, Duke, Wake, Purdue, Northwestern, ect.?  Hell yes!  Small problem though.  Those teams aren't looking for a new home.  Wake up people.

 :lol:

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Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7795 on: August 13, 2011, 02:54:54 PM »
Friends,

I have confirmed that the phone lines at Texas State are open and we they are waiting for a Big 12 invite :thumbs:
Oh man, remember when this was your shtick; back before you found EMAW  :lol:

to be honest i'm shocked that anyone remembered that

I just realized who you were.

 :horrorsurprise:

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7796 on: August 13, 2011, 02:57:28 PM »
We are about to find out what happens when you mess with Texas.


Offline steve dave

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7798 on: August 13, 2011, 03:15:24 PM »
greggdoyelcbs Gregg Doyel
I hear Oklahoma, OK State and 2 other B12 schools approached Big Ten as package and were told no. Academic reasons.

oh man

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #7799 on: August 13, 2011, 03:15:48 PM »
If crap was to jump off and the BCS goes 64 teams, who would we get taken over? I'd have to say these teams, on paper:

Iowa State
Washington State
Wake Forest
Baylor (they would already be in C-USA if it wasn't for Ann Richards)
Vanderbilt

There are currently 66 BCS teams and 67 next year with TCU going to the Big East. That means we'd be right on the bubble. If the SEC is willing to kneecap Vandy and the Pac 12 decides to escort Washington State from the premises, then we'd have a good chance of getting somewhere, but either scenario doesn't seem likely. I don't think we'd have to worry about beating Iowa State, and more than likely Baylor as well. That means that we'd have to be taken over Wake Forest. Considering how small their fan, media, and alumni base is, I like our chances. But goddamn, it would be close.

edit: I'm also predicating this on some ACC/Big East hybrid forming and that conference saying "meh, Wake Forest, enjoy C-USA."

What about the 8 or so Big East schools that have FCS football (or none at all)?  Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, etc. all those schools suck and aren't attractive to a "BCS Conf".

GMAFB K-State wouldn't make the cut (i.e. the top 64).  BCS is a football word, it only exists outside the context of football because it's convenient when referring to the collective "power conferences".  

Basketball is irrelevant in the whole scheme of things, hence the panic about being in a BCS (<--- reminder:  football word) conference.  I'd be more worried about the none BCS schools that have attractive football/TV market programs, for example Boise, BYU, UNLV
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