Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 4068275 times)

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Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27300 on: February 01, 2016, 08:56:57 PM »
None of those schools bring Jack crap except the fact that they get us to 12.  So, if we have to get to 12, then why not invite two teams that we can force into some sort of reduced revenue cut servitude, yet still improve their situation?

eff it.  Go get Missouri State and Memphis and just bet on them being decent additions by 2030, when they get their full share of revenue?

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27301 on: February 01, 2016, 09:06:25 PM »
Boren is going to light this conference on fire on his way out
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27302 on: February 01, 2016, 09:34:04 PM »
None of those schools bring Jack crap except the fact that they get us to 12.  So, if we have to get to 12, then why not invite two teams that we can force into some sort of reduced revenue cut servitude, yet still improve their situation?

eff it.  Go get Missouri State and Memphis and just bet on them being decent additions by 2030, when they get their full share of revenue?

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Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27303 on: February 01, 2016, 09:37:20 PM »
I don't get byu not competing on Sunday as a significant obstacle. No meaningful sport competes on sunday, and the one closest to significant could play Saturday double headers
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Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27304 on: February 01, 2016, 09:43:46 PM »
glad to see the big12 reads the board...





add central and south florida to get to twelve and then stop. four texas schools and the two florida schools in the south and everybody else in the north. boom. you're welcome.

south and central florida would be better than louisville and cincinatti.

Can you imagine having 2 schools in Florida where the SEC only has one?








central florida has 50k undergrad students and another 10k grad students. it went from not having a fball team at all thirty years ago to finally becoming fbs 15 years ago. they went from averaging under 20k ten years ago to averaging over 40k last year. they won conference usa twice, beat georgia in a bowl game last year and have played in a bowl game in 4/6 years.

south florida didn't have any football team fifteen years ago and only went fbs ten years ago. in those ten years they've been ranked as high as #2. they've beat west virginia twice, louisiville, auburn, florida state, etc. their overall win % is over .600. they've played in six straight bowl games. their home attendance record is 67,000. they have averaged over 50k. they have over 30k undergrad students.



but yeah, lets add cincinatti  :flush:


741 pages and people still don't understand that the ONLY thing you should consider when adding teams to a conference is how much they increase the value of your television deal.  If the SEC gave a damn about football success they wouldn't have added A&M and Mizzou instead of WVU.  They added Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Kansas City, and St. Louis instead of Charleston, WV and 1/5 of Pittsburgh.
Can't remember if you were advocating Louisville or not, but if you were, you're making a counterpoint to adding them. UL adds like 50% of their own city, some scraps of the remaining state, and virtually nobody else. If FSU is the only ACC school that wants to come, then bell yeah, add UL too, they simply aren't the top choice. crap, I'd take Cinci with FSU if that meant getting FSU.

I wasn't really advocating anyone, just posting about Louisville/Cincinnati/Clemson.  I don't think that the value of those three right now to a television contract is much different.  Clemson has a very strong fan base with virtually no televisions and corporate advertising potential.  Cincinnati has a ton of televisions and potential corporate cash, but no fan base to speak of.  Louisville has more TVs than Clemson and a stronger fan base than Cincinnati.

You all need to remember that Cincinnati and Louisville have recently been average programs in a substandard conference, but both have been slowly gaining higher profiles through the years.  They both saw surges when they joined the Big East and logic would tell you that would happen again when they joined the Big 12.  Easier to draw fans to your stadium to see UT and OU as opposed to Big East powerhouses, WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse.  If Cincinnati and/or Louisville entered the national championship picture in the Big 12 their fan bases would explode.  Clemson just doesn't have that growth potential, they already have a strong, dedicated fan base and their television numbers in the south are as strong as they're going to be.

well if this is your argument, you should be arguing for adding south and central florida above all three of the above.

Pretty similar but I don't think they have the growth potential, even in Miami's heyday the didn't constantly fill up the OB.  Like nearly everything else, Florida specifically Florida south of of I-4 is completely unique.  I just watched the Florida Panthers last night host a game 7 to a 3/4 full arena.

i'm kind of surprised that you'd say that. i think the growth potential of those schools are much greater.

enrollment numbers...

south florida enrollment- 47,000
central florida enrollment- 58,000  (second in the nation to only asu)
miami- 21,000

plus you look at when all the schools started playing football, what their current avg attendance is, growth rate of the school and the area, plus your arguments above about conf affiliation etc., i can't help but think that football would absolutely explode at those schools if all of the sudden they were added to the big12. much moreso than cincinatti, louiseville and miami anyway. given your argument, you should be using the florida schools as your example.

Enrollment numbers have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.  Now I will agree that my conference affiliation and burgeoning program argument fits USF and UCF very well.  However, I'm using my south Florida has a long and extensive history of not giving two craps about sports of any kind veto stamp on those two schools.  They are so sports indifferent that they can't even attract a MLS team with their large and diverse Latin population.  We know South Carolina and the Ohio Valley region are far from indifferent to college sports.

so your reason to have cincinnati instead of usf or ucf in the big 12 would be due to the fact that south florida didn't support an mls team? welp, i guess i can't argue w/ that. have fun. bye.

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27305 on: February 01, 2016, 09:46:24 PM »
OK, I change my vote to Rick's Florida schools.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27306 on: February 01, 2016, 10:14:56 PM »
Why the FuckBoys did I mention MLS :Yuck:

The Florida schools are still poop though

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27307 on: February 02, 2016, 12:44:16 AM »
David Boren wants a network.  I wouldn't be shocked if they go after all four.

There is a lot to dislike, but if that did come to fruition, the one silver lining is the fact that the basketball on ESPN and the Big 12 Network would be insanely good.

Basketball carries a lot of water on these conference networks, and UConn men's and women's teams are a tent pole in that strategy.

Something to consider...

Florida has 5.3 million cable subscribers.  If we were able to create a network (not saying we can, but if we followed the existing model), and you can charge a dollar more per month in the state of Florida by adding those teams, that's worth almost $63.6 million in subscriber fees per year.  UConn is worth about $12 million.  If the Cincy and Dayton DMA's merge, and you just get a dollar increase in that DMA, it's worth about $8.85 million in subscriber fees. That's around ~$85 million.

The same total for the rest of the Big 12 is ~$80 million.

So, those 4 schools bring more potential dollars in a subscriber fee model than the rest of the Big 12 combined.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27308 on: February 02, 2016, 06:26:54 AM »
That sounds very pie in the sky. 
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Offline chum1

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27309 on: February 02, 2016, 06:50:22 AM »
If you're doing it for the money, you might as well go all in.

Offline chum1

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27310 on: February 02, 2016, 06:53:59 AM »
Adding USF, UCF, UConn, Cinci, BYU, and whoever else doesn't suck any more than adding only two teams. All scenarios suck.

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27311 on: February 02, 2016, 07:34:30 AM »
If you're doing it for the money, you might as well go all in.

I agree.

Offline chum1

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27312 on: February 02, 2016, 08:11:28 AM »
ALL IN:

UT
Baylor
TCU
Tech
OU
OSU
KU
KState
ISU
WVU

USF
UCF
Houston
BYU
UConn
Cincinnati
Memphis

And Colorado State because we all want that.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27313 on: February 02, 2016, 09:36:42 AM »
That sounds very pie in the sky.

All you're assuming is that Fox can get a dollar from everyone in those states.  Yes, that's probably high, but that's roughly how folks have estimated the BTN's subscriber fees.  If you get the Big 12 Network in your most basic tier like the Big Ten Network, and you can charge a dollar in each of those states for that channel, per month, that's what it equals.  You then get a nickle or so from everyone in every other state.  That doesn't include advertising.

Being able to charge that money in Texas and Florida account for almost $120 million a year alone.  Connecticut is actually the #1 state in the country for % of cable subscribers per total TV Households.

Again, maybe on the high side, but you're hoping that the sheer volume of USF/UCF fans/alumni get that carriage across Florida.  If not, just take their # of cable subscribers per DMA and multiply that by 12.

Because I've been criticized for long posts, I won't go into why I think we'd follow the Big Ten model, but because Fox owns all of our football cable rights and vast majority of T3 rights, they'd probably do the 51/49 owner split, too.  So, I'm estimating using their model.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27314 on: February 02, 2016, 09:54:39 AM »
If you're doing it for the money, you might as well go all in.

I agree.

If you go that model, you have to protect the "name" schools and keep them together.

My guess, if we did that, it would look like this:

West:
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State


*Bold denotes Big 8 schools

East:
Baylor
TCU
WVU
Cincy
UConn
USF
UCF

Keeps a little power in the East; a lot of BCS bowls in that list.  Honestly, no worse than the Big Ten West and ACC Coastal.

If you limit it to nine conference games and force Texas to play Baylor every year, then they only play two out of that other list.  Limits the crap teams a bit.

You'd have to keep KU and UConn out of the same football division.  That's just a disaster waiting to happen.

Offline cfbandyman

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27315 on: February 02, 2016, 10:01:55 AM »
If you're doing it for the money, you might as well go all in.

I agree.

If you go that model, you have to protect the "name" schools and keep them together.

My guess, if we did that, it would look like this:

West:
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State


*Bold denotes Big 8 schools

East:
Baylor
TCU
WVU
Cincy
UConn
USF
UCF

Keeps a little power in the East; a lot of BCS bowls in that list.  Honestly, no worse than the Big Ten West and ACC Coastal.

If you limit it to nine conference games and force Texas to play Baylor every year, then they only play two out of that other list.  Limits the crap teams a bit.

You'd have to keep KU and UConn out of the same football division.  That's just a disaster waiting to happen.

The East in that scenario is scary close to big 10 West. Iowa-Wisky-Nubbs v BU-TCU-WVU. Except for the history bit.
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Offline cfbandyman

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27316 on: February 02, 2016, 10:06:25 AM »
If you're doing it for the money, you might as well go all in.

I agree.

If you go that model, you have to protect the "name" schools and keep them together.

My guess, if we did that, it would look like this:

West:
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State


*Bold denotes Big 8 schools

East:
Baylor
TCU
WVU
Cincy
UConn
USF
UCF

Keeps a little power in the East; a lot of BCS bowls in that list.  Honestly, no worse than the Big Ten West and ACC Coastal.

If you limit it to nine conference games and force Texas to play Baylor every year, then they only play two out of that other list.  Limits the crap teams a bit.

You'd have to keep KU and UConn out of the same football division.  That's just a disaster waiting to happen.

The East in that scenario is scary close to big 10 West. Iowa-Wisky-Nubbs v BU-TCU-WVU. Except for the history bit.

In fact that whole thing is big 10 woof city

West:
Texas = tOSU
Texas Tech = Rutgers
Oklahoma = Michigan
Oklahoma State = Sparty
Kansas =Indiana
Kansas State =Penn St
Iowa State = Maryland

East:
Baylor = Iowa
TCU = Wisconsin
WVU = Nebraska
Cincy = Minnesota
UConn = Northwestern
USF = Illinois
UCF = Purdue
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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27317 on: February 02, 2016, 10:06:46 AM »
That sounds very pie in the sky.

All you're assuming is that Fox can get a dollar from everyone in those states.  Yes, that's probably high, but that's roughly how folks have estimated the BTN's subscriber fees.  If you get the Big 12 Network in your most basic tier like the Big Ten Network, and you can charge a dollar in each of those states for that channel, per month, that's what it equals.  You then get a nickle or so from everyone in every other state.  That doesn't include advertising.

Being able to charge that money in Texas and Florida account for almost $120 million a year alone.  Connecticut is actually the #1 state in the country for % of cable subscribers per total TV Households.

Again, maybe on the high side, but you're hoping that the sheer volume of USF/UCF fans/alumni get that carriage across Florida.  If not, just take their # of cable subscribers per DMA and multiply that by 12.

Because I've been criticized for long posts, I won't go into why I think we'd follow the Big Ten model, but because Fox owns all of our football cable rights and vast majority of T3 rights, they'd probably do the 51/49 owner split, too.  So, I'm estimating using their model.

This assumes people want cable right?

Yes.  But the demise of cable as we know it is hazy in terms of time frame.  No one knows that that runway looks like.  We just know that sports are keeping people tied to cable right now more than anything else, so these companies are still overpaying.

Other consideration...expanding opens a re-negotiation window with the TV partners after the Big Ten resets the market.  Bowlsby said our rights are currently undervalued (no idea if that's true...).  If they are, expanding gives us a chance to renegotiate existing deals.

Other other consideration...common thought is that Big Ten rights will follow a model that the Big 12 and Pac 12 use to help reduce overall financial burden by Fox and ESPN.  If that's the case, Fox only has so many slots for Big Ten, Pac 12, and Big 12 football.  A Big 12 Network gives them another slot to push a lot of games that can't fix on Fox and FS1.

Other other other consideration...we have a contractual agreement with ESPN, starting this year, to increase our games on their platform.  This means Fox will get less of our good games.  Us expanding means less C-USA on FS1.

What Fox wants is the best Big Ten/Big 12/Pac 12 games on broadcast Fox.  They want that next tier of great games on FS1.  Beyond that, they want to monetize what they've already paid for by shoving it on one network and getting additional subscriber fees for it.  Hence, the strong theory that Fox is the one convincing Boren to go all-in on a network.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27318 on: February 02, 2016, 10:07:17 AM »
It could be a multi-pronged media approach using cable/sat and online.


Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27319 on: February 02, 2016, 10:10:41 AM »
It could be a multi-pronged media approach using cable/sat and online.

Big Ten flirted with an online channel, but it turned into BigTen2Go, which can be seen online, mobile, and Roku.

If people drop cable, fine, you can still try to sell monthly subs to the online App like HBO does with HBOGo and HBONow.

No matter what happens, the consolidation of rights gives you more attractive distribution options.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27320 on: February 02, 2016, 10:24:57 AM »
Hence, the strong theory that Fox is the one convincing Boren to go all-in on a network.

This doesn't really comfort me. Couldn't the B12 be a gamble by Fox to get a greater share of the sports market? Sounds like a great reason to expand a conference. Like any investment it could bust and we get a crappy B12 because they're playing Boren.

Crappy Big 12 is relative.  It depends on what you're into.

If you divide the divisions and schedule right in football, most of your schedule will look like it does today with the rivals you care about.

Basketball will get better with the additions of UConn and Cincy.  I don't know enough about WBB, but having UConn immediately puts us on another level.  UCF and USF, with P5 money, can throw more resources at football and baseball.  It's always good to have more southern baseball teams.

Never underestimate what the infusion of cash can do to the overall quality of an athletic department if it's in a talent rich area.

Also, we can make demands on facility quality, size, etc.  The SEC made Mizzou invest tons of money into their facilities when they joined so they could be on the "SEC level".  There's no reason we can't do the same.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27321 on: February 02, 2016, 11:05:36 AM »
Take OU, UT, and maybe KU out of all those scenarios please.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27322 on: February 02, 2016, 11:17:18 AM »
Take OU, UT, and maybe KU out of all those scenarios please.

No.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27323 on: February 02, 2016, 11:24:32 AM »
Take OU, UT, and maybe KU out of all those scenarios please.

No.
Ok, so they are the short term conference members. Gotcha
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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #27324 on: February 02, 2016, 11:37:37 AM »
Take OU, UT, and maybe KU out of all those scenarios please.

No.
Ok, so they are the short term conference members. Gotcha

They aren't going anywhere.  Quit being dramatic.